CWC EP 24 | Andy Cagnetta Sits w/ Doug Goodstein, CEO of Does Good Media

In this episode of Coffee with Cagnetta, Andy Cagnetta (CEO of Transworld Business Advisors) interviews Doug Goodstein, CEO of Does Good Media. Doug shares "war stories" from his time at ABC News with Peter Jennings, the bold move of sending 30 resumes in the mail to land at E!, and the reality of being in the "crosshairs" as an Executive Producer for Howard Stern.

We dive into the "Accordion Model" of modern business—how to scale from 3 to 30 people overnight—and why every professional in 2025 needs to be a "Swiss Army" producer to survive the consolidation of the media industry.

🔗 Learn more: DozGoodMedia.com

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📌 Visit TWorld.com for more information about M&A, Leadership, and Business.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hey, welcome back to Coffee with Cagneta. And we continue our series of New York visits here at the Theorist Podcast Studios, and they're doing a great job. So thank you guys for that. Uh, but we are very happy to have Doug Goodstein here at with us at Coffee with Cagneta. And Doug's how do you how do you say your company made name?

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Does good media.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Does good media. And Doug has a long history of being in uh the production world. And um, I'm gonna let him tell it because it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

I mean, yeah, it's been uh it's been 30 something plus years. So yeah, where do you want me to start?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Well, how'd you get you know, where'd you grow up?

SPEAKER_02 0:51

You grew up in Long Island, Brooklyn then to Long Island.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

I don't know what what it is. It's like that Brooklyn to New York, uh Long Island, Brooklyn to Jersey. I mean, like everybody kind of seems different.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Well, it's funny before we go to regress a little bit. Um, you're clearly not from New York because you say we're coffee in New York. It's like we're this is coffee with uh cagnet in New York. I've lost a little bit of the accent, but we'll be right back. You did in Florida.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Yeah, I lost a little bit of a well, you know, talk about uh, you know, you grew up on Long Island. How'd you get into quote unquote the business?

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Interestingly, if I'll make a quick story, I was 10 years old and I met Spencer Christian, who used to be the weatherman and did also did human interest stories on America uh Good Morning America. Right. Met him at a doing a little league story in my town, and I fell in love with the camera and he embraced me and he was he's like, come under me, you know, took me under his wing from the day or two that they were filming. Wow. And I just fell in love with it and never lost that that passion and that that uh you know that infatuation with the camera. So you And that was it.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Did you go to school for that?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

I did. Yeah, I went to University of Hartford. Oh, nice study communication and journalism. I wanted to be a journalism journalist, I wanted to be a reporter. Right. And um actually started two days after graduation at ABC News at the top. So I started for the Republican convention, the Democratic Convention in 1992, then I got hired for World News Tonight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

I was gonna ask if that was your first job.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Yeah, it was the first job. So started at the top, and that actually chiseled away at what I wanted to do being a reporter because I didn't like it. It was too serious, it was too hardcore, it was too intense, no one was joking around. I like having fun. Right. And not that I didn't have fun with some of my other uh colleagues, you know, on my level, but at the end of the day, it was really it was a serious subject matter, and no one wanted to see there and be around and just the host at the time Peter Jennings.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

I know of course, Peter Jennings, the Peter Jennings. Wow. So that was interesting. So then you did a little stint uh where?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

I didn't like it, so I sent my resume in the mail, blind, to about 30 places in New York City. Wow. And one of them was the Entertainment Television, who happened to have a show in the process of being developed, and they didn't tell me what it was. And I said, Oh, maybe you'll be a good fit for this show. And it was um just just to show you how the oddest connections can like connect you to a job. So on my re I worked for one shoot for a crazy director, I won't say his name, uh, doing a commercial in between this is a freelance job while I was already at ABC. And I put it on the resume. It was a film, you know, it was film, it was something different than news. And the guy I sent a resume to it, E, who was developing the Howard Stern show, worked for that same director. So he called me. I think a lot of it was curiosity to say, we got to compare war stories because that's what he did.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

He's tell me what it was like working for that nut. And I'm like, you tell me what it's like, you know. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

So and that was it. We just became really friendly. And one thing I never forget, and I tell people all the time, and I've I've had hundreds of interns on demand. I work with interns and supervise interns. I I remember what I did with this this guy, Scott, uh, and I tell interns and still to this day, ask for the job. So Scott was like, you know, I think, I think he used the word thing, and I know he used the word, I think we have a job. I said, Scott, give me the job. I won't let you down.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

And I think that resonated. Yeah. It's just ask for the job.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Wow. I I by the way, to all the young kids out there, I think that's two really great lessons right there. Number one, you sent your resume out to like 30-something places, like in the mail.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

In the mail. They don't even know what that is.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

I know, but but it means like you get out there and take your shot.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

And then number two is when you do get that opportunity, you get face to face with someone, tell them that's for it. Ask for the job. But I I really like the your your second statement was I'm not gonna let you down. You just immediately installed it.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

You gotta how do you stand out? If he was interviewing 30 people, whatever I don't even know, I didn't even ask him ever how many people applied for it, but I just said I won't let you down. Just give me the job. And I stood him stared him right in the face, and and I guess it worked out. I landed there for 19 years and took over as the executive producer.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

So And you that was a pretty public job.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Um, a little more than I liked, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

I mean, you were, you know, you were kind of dragged into a lot of situations and that job that it was part of the the shtick of the of the show.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Yeah, the fabric of the show was that if you uh, you know, drop a napkin on the floor, it could become fodder for the air. So it didn't matter what it was. You there was nothing you could do right there without potentially being in the crosshairs, which was fun, you know, kept you on edge. Every day was totally different, every day was fun. Right. And um, yeah, but it there was uh an edge to it, like uh oh, you know, did I do something wrong?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

If you hear your name, you're like you you just get it was eggshells, so yeah, and it it it's it's a tough place to last for so long, and you lasted a long time. Yeah. So you decided, hey, this is not for me anymore. I gotta move on.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Um well it wasn't really my choice, but right um the contract ended and they didn't renew the contract, and I know there wasn't really a TV contract per se the way it was with E and Howard TV for at least three, four years. There was no deal. And then they ultimately took it over and brought the video team internally, right, which I believe now doesn't exist the way with like a full dedicated team. Right. So as far as I know.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

So so what did you pick up doing after that? I after that I went and started up a show called The Breakfast Club, which was a um uh morning radio show, and they were putting it on TV. So I did that for about a year, and then I sort of gave it like seven or eight months on my own, try to figure things out, and I landed a job in the course of that. I someone came to me and said, We think we have an opportunity, and it was for Mark Levin in politics. So and uh conservative politics, which I wasn't I'm a libertarian, so it wasn't really, I was like, Oh, I don't know about this, but realigned. But you know, ultimately, at the end of the day, I'm a producer. Right. So you just you know, you don't want to be too far removed from the subject matter you're producing. Um, but also you can disconnect and just produce a show. Right. You know, there's there's some people at certain networks that I know for a fact have no interest in the subject matter they produce. But um I always wondered that. Yeah, yeah. They just but it's a job and you do your job and you just do it well, and then you that's it. You don't sh wear your colors on your sleeve and you just do it professionally, and that's you know, but it wasn't like that with Levin. But um it was fun, it was interesting, it was educational, it was informative. Uh it was it was it was it was a good good gig. And then we started up the Fox show, uh Life Liberty and Life Liberty and Levin on Fox, which is still airing, both of them are still airing Levin TV and Fox, just with much, much smaller teams. I think it was like 20, 25 of us, and I think they're down to four people now. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

So you decide to go out on your own?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah, well, I went out after Levin. It was the other side of politics for the the Lincoln project.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

For for about four months. They did a pilot program of about 20 shows. We did 20 live shows. Uh, and then that ended abruptly for everyone. And um I was like, what do we do here? Started thinking to go on my own a little bit, and then something hit. COVID. Wow. And then it was not a choice because now there was no work, everything was just basically shut down, and shows are out of production, and it was like that pivot to let's do shows on Zoom, you know, established shows on Zoom, and you couldn't really pitch shows. So I started doing videos for free for the most part, um, for small businesses in my community to help them out because everyone was struggling. They were doing this curbside pickup, and I just proactively approached businesses. I knew a lot of them, started with people I know, friends, and I started making little videos like um social media videos just to promote the business and explain what they're doing. And it resonated with me, you know, working with businesses. I I like that individual, that one-on-one connection, not a huge, massive team, uh, immediate feedback, immediate results that you could measure. And um, yeah, it just struck a chord and I and I stuck with it uh for a while, did 50, 60 of those. And um, from there I was like, this is not really sustainable when we started coming out of COVID. So I got a local job at a production company, still in COVID. Um, and I had a weekly, you know, a regular job. It was like a freelance job that I was working, and it was opened my eyes to corporate video more, uh, even more outside the small business, but more corporate stuff and non-secular stuff and charitable videos. And I just was like, yeah, this makes sense. Like this, I I like this. And worked for another company in New York City. Am I boring you? Tell me. No, no, this is great. I mean, and and yeah, so worked for another company here in New York City, bigger clients, IBM, Ernst Young, Nokia, Shopify, a company called Still Skillsoft, CVS. So now it was the big brands. And then I really was like, this is cool. And I just decided to go on my own and do it. Some of the contacts that we landed some jobs there were my contacts. I'm like, I'll just do this on my own. I'm still really close with the guy that owns that company, and we talk and we will collaborate when we can. Uh, and that's it. Now I've been on my own and I landed sustainable, consistent clients.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

And you're there to help them tell their stories or give instruction videos, or we do every kind of video.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

We do educational tutorial overviews, uh, product launches, testimonials, instructional videos, commercials, fundraising videos, gala videos, you name it, we'll do it. Right. I don't say no.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, you're you're saying that. That's a great philosophy. I mean, you're out there and you're on your your own business and you won't say no.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Because I know someone one degree away that can do it, and I have the absolute confidence that I'm never gonna step away and just outsource it and be like, just here's a project, do it for me, white label it. No, I won't do that. I'll never step away. I'll be involved 100% of the time. But if someone says I need uh, you know, X, Y, and Z, I'm like, uh Yeah, sure, we do that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

You just I think that's part of being an entrepreneur, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely entrepreneurial, and I don't think that's deceptive at all. No they're getting exactly what they want. There's just you don't need to know how the uh stake is made, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Well, they're buying you, right? At the end of the day, they're buying you.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

And they're never gonna be disappointed. They haven't had one client disappointed either.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Because you're gonna work your butt off and make sure it gets done right.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Yeah. I work as hard as I did when I was like 20 years old, right out of school, or 22 years old right out of school. Right. That passion has never ceased. Right. Ever.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

All right. I mean, so in and you were you were interesting because I think it's interesting uh to talk about entrepreneurialism and how it's changing, right? So there's a lot going on. There's AI, which we could talk about a little bit. But I think one of the interesting things you told me pre- as we were talking uh as leading up to this was that you could be an organization of a thousand people tomorrow, if you needed to be. Like it's really flexible these days.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

I know a lot of people, this goes back a few years now, but the product the whole production business is upside down right now. If you want developing shows, selling shows, what shows get made, the budgets, um, there's shrinkage and and consolidation with the entire business. But just because the the paradigm shift, what's going on now is that there's no destination television. There's people don't watch television, they watch 30 seconds, if that, on their on their phones on social media and swipe. And that's enough to consume and enough to know about sometimes a show. I mean, I guess Love Island is the exception now that's a destination uh show, and some others for sure, but it's just a different shift. So everything's consolidated and it's just very different. Um, your question?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Is it is it yeah, but it, you know, it's just being flexible these days. It's being like a you know, being able to not have a big team. Absolutely. But that helps you actually.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yes, yeah. So the big team thing, yeah, I could accordion out. I could say the accordion model. So if I need uh three people on a shoot, I got it. If I need 30 people on a shoot, we make some phone calls and we produce and we create a team, we get a production manager, we just accordion out and we'll have 10 camera crews on a shoot if we need, but yeah, you don't there's no reason to have an infrastructure that's massive when you don't have if you don't know what chutes could accommodate that infrastructure. And then you're just stuck with equipment. So I even all my camera crews, they're all freelance. Right. Why should I buy $50,000 when in six months the equipment's gonna be out outdated already, which is what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Wow. And in in the industry, which I think is fascinating. No, so obviously your bread and butter these days, keeping the lights on, is making content for companies that could pay for it, right? And they need that content.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, and doing it really well, right. Not to pat myself or sound cocky, but we do it really well.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Right. And then like what's the model these days for like or what's hot right now, maybe the Billy Joel uh documentary, two, you know, two episode documentary. Like, what's the economics of that? Like, how do you are people taking bets on that and saying, okay, let's produce this and see if it works?

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Well, yes, that is it sounds like you know how things are a little bit. The model, some of the model is shifting where independent films, like if for in the film business, filmmakers are making their movies independently. So, like tons of movies, even from some companies that are pretty big names, are still independent films. They will make the film and then try to sell it after it's done. Wow. So doing that with a reality show, I don't think as much, but you could go out and shoot a sizzle reel or a concept reel for like a minute or two and get the whole concept done. Because, you know, reading it on paper is one thing, but seeing it is another thing. But it's just it's very different. Every pretty much every single person I know is either struggling or has left the business or trying to reinvent themselves, which, you know, again, you just got to stay positive and and be uh confident in your abilities. And I tell people like, don't ever give up. And you know, I know a few people who were big network executives who were out of work and really struggling, and they both landed on their feet phenomenally, you know, in huge roles now, recently in the last two years.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

So what's the what's the future out there, you know, with AI and those kind of things?

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Well, AI, I'm torn with AI. I love AI and I hate AI. Right. You know, I hate I I hate AI to create content um that's trying to tell a story with a personal connection because it it's you can't do that. You need human beings and you need the real people and you need real stories and you need real emotion and authenticity and organic uh footage to really evoke the emotion and the the compassion and and just to bring you into a story. When you put AI, I I I could someone show me something yesterday, and uh, within one second, he goes, Oh, check this out. I go, it's AI. He goes, How do you know? I go, because I could tell. Right. You know, so the trained eye, and I think, do people care? Yes and no, it depends on the content. Like if you're trying to tell a story, like we do a lot of uh healthcare videos, medical videos. If I were to tell a story of a doctor and a patient, I'm using AI images, like there's no connection, it's not real. It looks weird, yeah. It would be weird. So you need that human connection. Right. But I do use AI for voiceovers now, which is I feel terrible about it because it's a lot of great people that I used to work with who do voiceover, and I don't use them anymore because it takes a thousand times longer, and this is a thousand times cheaper and a thousand times quicker.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

And it sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Right. Well, this is not AI talking to you right now.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

So what what would you what would be your advice to young people these days trying to Well, I do give advice to young people because I'm an adjunct professor at Hofstream University. Oh, there you go. You are back. Good for you. Yeah, so for I just did my first semester last uh last spring. Uh the advice would be to just be a um Swiss Army producer. And what that means is you open up a Swiss Army, there's a screwdriver, there's a plier, there's a knife, there's a the scissor. You gotta do everything. You gotta know how to do everything. Don't just isolate and and target, you know, your your bullseye on I want to be a cameraman, I want to be an audio guy, I want to be a lighting guy, you gotta be everything. Right. And if you're not gonna be good at everything, you at least gotta know how to do a little bit of a lot.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

You know, that's pretty interesting because I always consider myself a jack uh of all trades, a master of none. You know, like I think but I think that's been like turned into a super strength, you know, it's it's kind of a a strength at this point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Yeah, the the chameleon. You know, you need me to do that, I'll do it. You need me to do that, I'll do it. Well, it sounds like your your whole and and also here uh besides aside from that, I think this is probably the most important. Don't huff and puff and don't complain. Just do the job. If someone, if I hire someone any level, if I hear uh or rolling the eyes, goodbye. Right. Don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear it because we're here to do a job. Yeah, it's and not only that, it's just so hard to get jobs in this business, even though there's so much, there's never been more content, but there's also never been less jobs. It's bizarre. You know, everyone is a content creator, so everyone works independently. But for on working on shows, it's just it's different. Teams are smaller, everything's shrinking. Um, but yeah, don't have them puff and don't complain. Just be happy.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Okay. That's great advice, Doug. If somebody wanted to get in touch with Doug Z, does good, does good media. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Does good yeah, doesgoodmedia.com. And then we have a page, doesgoodmedia.com, our work, you'll see it. And it's about 15-20 samples of our of our work.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, if if you want real stuff with real stories, with real people, and and shining through it, that's not easy to do. I believe it, right, because we've tried. You know, it's you you need someone who knows what they're doing.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah, does good media. There you go. Well, we're ready for it. So Doug, thanks for coming in today. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Thank you for coffee with Gagneta in New York. In New York. Coffee with Gagnetta in New York. Thank you for being here today. Look forward to seeing you next time with coffee with Gagnetta.