Coffee With Cagnetta
Join Andy Cagnetta, CEO of Transworld Business Advisors, as he sits down with business leaders, entrepreneurs, and industry pioneers to uncover the secrets of success, leadership, and growth.
Coffee With Cagnetta
CWC EP 25 | Andy Cagnetta Sits w/ Rob Cagnetta, Owner of Heritage Restoration
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In this episode of Coffee with Cagnetta, Andy Cagnetta (CEO of Transworld Business Advisors) interviews his brother Rob Cagnetta, owner of Heritage Restoration. Rob shares the fascinating story of how he "spun off" his division from Goodwill Industries to start his own firm, the logistical nightmares of craning down church steeples, and why high-end craftsmanship is one of the most profitable and secure business niches left in America.
🔗 Visit: https://www.heritagerestoration.net
📌 Visit TWorld.com for more information about M&A, Leadership, and Business.
Hey, welcome back everybody to Coffee with Cagnet Uz. This is a plural today. We are live here in New York at the Theorist Podcast Studios. They are doing a fantastic job. Thank you guys. Uh, but we have a very special guest. My little brother, Rob, of Heritage Restoration. And he's not here because he's my brother or we're just trying to kill time. He's here because he runs this like fascinating company. And we did uh speak to his wife a few episodes ago uh about the acquisition of that company, and it got me thinking, I'm like, we have to interview you, Rob, because I'm always fascinated with your business. But first, Rob, welcome, my brother.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
SPEAKER_00So, where'd you grow up? In the room next door.
SPEAKER_01I had these brothers that I tell you were so awful. No. It uh we uh we had a great, a great childhood. We we had a lot of fun together. We uh did lots of uh dangerous and fun things in the backyard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we did. Yeah, it was a good time.
SPEAKER_01Boxing and riding bikes. I know.
SPEAKER_00You reminded me of the boxing. That was crazy.
SPEAKER_01I didn't partake. You guys were older than me.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, um, not to go off on a tangent, but you wound up it. I first of all, I want to jump right into this business because I think it's a fascinating business. And I think it's fascinating how you got there too, because I think that's really important story for all the entrepreneurs that are out there that you know sometimes you just kind of wander into things. So tell us, you you went to um school up in Rhode Island. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yep. I uh got out of high school thinking I wanted to design buildings and went to Rhode Island and learned that there's a much deeper history to our architecture rather than uh outside of New York City, where we grew up. And so I I was um really a world was revealed to me to sort of show this uh wonderful layered history of of buildings and infrastructure and all these things that sort of made the environment, the built environment, that um I ended up, you know, when I went there, uh I wasn't very good in architecture, but I did uh um they steered me towards historic preservation, which I had never heard of before. And so it just um yeah, just opened my eyes to a world that I kind of saw but never understood.
SPEAKER_00Right. So you get out of Roger Williams and you get a job with goodwill.
SPEAKER_01Eventually, yeah. We I worked, uh, did an internship in college, and the internship led me to a position right out of school with my boss, who started a division of Goodwill Industries where we taught people with disabilities and barriers to employment uh the traditional trades. And we got a cooperative agreement with the Park Service, and we ended up traveling all over the East Coast and uh into some great national parks and uh worked alongside some great craftspeople. And it sort of again opened my eyes to a whole nother world of the traditional crafts. And um, so in a very short time, I went from uh suburbia uh Jersey to uh sort of um post-revolution sites in New Jersey and uh Civil War sites in Harper's Ferry, and it was it was just kind of an incredible journey in a very short time.
SPEAKER_00Right. So you're doing all this historic preservation work on some of our national monuments and and and then they close it. They close the company, not close the company, they they wind it down.
SPEAKER_01They we um it ran its course, you know? It was over. Yeah, it's over, Johnny. They they um there wasn't a great fit. I mean, here we are, a construction company that's that's a construction division that's inside of a a nonprofit social service nonprofit. And we were operating like uh a construction company, which was not sort of their MO. So um we agreed to, after about five years, that it was time for for us to move on. And so they enabled me to take the people and all the equipment uh and start heritage restoration. Um, so it was it was cool because I had the people and I had jobs and I had some equipment um when I started heritage, so it wasn't like I was starting from quote unquote scratch. Um, so uh it it and and honestly, the the thing it taught me the most was how to function as a business. Uh, because as as great as my college education education was, it didn't necessarily teach me uh business. Right. So um, so I I with goodwill, they were expecting forecasts, they were expecting breakdowns of of uh hourly rates, and and you know, I never knew any of that stuff. So I got a crash course, and so heritage sort of I had a little advantage starting heritage with some experience. Right.
SPEAKER_00So heritage starts and you're doing all kinds of let's talk about some of the jobs you've done. I mean, just talk about some of the crazy stuff that you guys do.
SPEAKER_01So we're we're fortunate to be in a in a very, very rich architectural uh um area where where we have uh Newport, Rhode Island is right nearby. That we've worked on some of the the mansions down there. Uh, you know, um I've I've worked on Doris Duke's house, I've worked on uh uh early 18th century buildings. I worked on a 1692 building um that was made into a residence for the first time in 70 years.
SPEAKER_00And uh it was abandoned before that, right?
SPEAKER_01It was a museum, so it wasn't really functioning as a house. And uh the last update was in 1950. And and so we put in air conditioning, heating, and uh, but we only, you know, we made 20 holes in this house and um uh took down one wall. So, you know, it's sort of like we we became, you know, it it's my stubbornness to to to to the cause um made it so I never would do anything that was outside of restoring or preserving a house. So that fast forward to now sort of has created a niche for us that people don't call us to put in the deck or replace their windows. Um they're calling us to maintain and manipulate old buildings as if you know we were never there. So some of our best work is you can't even tell we were there. And it's sort of like our before and after pictures aren't uh uh very striking because you know you're like, wow, that looks the same.
SPEAKER_00But the the wood is no longer rotted, the stairway is is not falling down, it no longer leaks through a spiral staircase. I mean, you've worked on mills, you've you've you've worked on really hard logistical things like lighthouses.
SPEAKER_01Lighthouses, yep. Uh that was in the middle of Boston Harbor. Uh we worked on the oldest continual light in the country, which is Boston Neck or Boston, oh, Boston Light. Anyhow, uh we worked on that. We worked on uh steeples on on churches, right?
SPEAKER_00Where you have to crane down the steeple.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yep, a lot of cranes. Uh we we built a greenhouse, a wooden greenhouse in the shop and then brought it on site. Um, you know, just lots of like we build a round window that was seven feet across, you know, 40 feet in the air. Uh yeah, so it's just, you know, it's sort of I I joke to say like as soon as we get good at something, we never do it again, you know, because these old houses, there's so many unique parts to them that others don't know how to do. And since we don't say no, uh we we end up doing some really fun, crazy, crazy stuff.
SPEAKER_00I've heard that before from entrepreneurs that you don't say no too often.
SPEAKER_01I yeah. I and well, especially when I was starting, I I I did a lot more than than probably um not that I should have, but I think you end up doing things that are outside of your comfort, right? Just to sort of maintain and keep people busy. And um, and then eventually when I when I hit like our it's 24 and a half years now. Wow. Kind of when we hit our 20-year point is when we were like, you know what, we don't have to do that anymore, you know, because there's someone that's calling us for something that's that's more within our wheelhouse, you know. So, you know, and now I don't have to like go to the events or or or um I mean when I started, I would go to I would literally just drop by the historical societies or the state historic preservation office. I would, you know, um made my f face known to all the people that are doing what we do, like the nonprofits and so forth. So, you know, at this point, it's sort of like where that name that comes right out of their mouth. Right. You know, so it it it it's it's nice. It it all those early years of you know building recognition, sort of now I can sort of not coast on that, but but rely on that.
SPEAKER_00Well, you you have a reputation for being the guy. I mean, you wrote for the Providence Journal as the fix it guy for about a decade.
SPEAKER_01Did that, yeah. And um, that was interesting because I had never really written that others would read beyond a proposal. Uh, but that was a lot of fun. Like I I I uh definitely the the Octanegerians, the the uh the fo folks that were older knew me very well because they read the newspaper. So I would get these wonderful calls from folks and and you know, sort of asking really unique things about old places. And um, so I I I enjoyed that part. Um, you know, and and this is pre, you know, everything on the internet, so right, it sort of uh uh created a buzz for us then.
SPEAKER_00Um but I think it's cool that you you do these things to restore these old houses. Like I think one of the cool things is you built a shop that just does windows. Right. Right. Like you take these old windows that have if ever anybody's out there have those lead wood lead things in the window. What what do you call it? Oh, like stained glass, not just like lead paint. No, no, no, like the lead, the the things that go up and down in the the wait and pulley. Yeah, the weight and pulley stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yeah. I mean, it's you know, it's really easy to find someone that'll replace those things, but it's harder to find someone to fix them. And right and we now sort of occupy that that sector of the market that's very robust in New England, at the very at least. And honestly, even in Florida and other parts of the country, you you know, um you you'll find people that do these things, uh, you know, and the the saturation of the market really depends on how much opportunity there is. And New England and and uh Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, there's a lot of opportunity for people to be in this the restoration market. But if you go out to like Nebraska or or you know, Midwest and other places, it's going to be farther and few between because of the Westbird expansion happened a lot later than the early colonies. So it it it you know, you there's a place. It's not like we're just an outlier and you know, there's competition. Like we still have people that do what we do and do it cheaper or do it, you know, uh um, you know, so we always have to be mindful of that and be able to, you know, make sure that that we're staying above all that in the sense that we we uh you know, I tell my crew it's like I I can defend good work, you know, um, but I can't defend poor work, you know, to a to a high cost. So it's really just having them sort of have them also buy into the idea that we're here for purpose, you know, we're here to do good work, we're here to sustain sort of these buildings. Um, and and sort of that mantra is sort of enabled us to kind of get some really, really cool opportunities. I mean, the buildings we see are awesome.
SPEAKER_00The Hall of Fame, Tennis Hall of Fame, the art museums, the the churches, the and the private homes, honestly.
SPEAKER_01I mean, but most of our work is uh these private homes that that you know aren't always for the Uber rich. I mean, these are people that just live in a nice Queen Anne, uh, which is those really nice buildings with stained glass and uh turrets and slate roofs, and you know, that that you see so many of them, and and uh, you know, there's fewer people to fix that stuff.
SPEAKER_00And probably sometimes you've brought things back that somebody did a bad job of fixing.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot, you know. I mean, there's two things that'll keep us busy is bad work and rot, you know, and and both happen.
SPEAKER_00So so so in your travels, uh, I've watched you learn a lot of things the hard way. Um and I think one of the one of the uh lessons that um that you can learn is you know that you become an expert in something. So uh talk about lead poisoning a little bit. Like, you know, you you've literally changed the way some people are looking at the way they deal with lead in buildings.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, and it's I mean, you know, like it you don't run away from a problem. Like it, you know, I think it's I don't know how that it was ingrained on us young. Like I think all three of us that, you know, like when we see an issue, it's sort of like, well, I I have to help with this.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And you know, I think the lead paint, um, you know, we we were we saw the evolution and awareness of lead paint. I mean, it was banned in 76, 77, even though we knew about it since the Romans. Uh, you know, and killed themselves. Yeah, who you thought they were all that, but they were drinking out of lead goblets. So it's, you know, I think for us, we we started to see in the 90s that there was an increased awareness and legislation and and lawsuits and things that were revolving around the lead industry or the paint industry. And that that the response was to say, okay, well, we just need to tear all these things out to make it safe. And there's so many of these older buildings. Uh, I think it what is it, like uh 40 or 50 percent of Rhode Island's 40% of Rhode Island's housing stock was built before 1950. You know, so you're talking about a huge amount of buildings that that have potential hazards in them. So we we early on, we we really sought to identify the ways to make it feasible for people to live with it and and you know, um and to understand sort of how lead, you know, paint becomes a hazard and and ways to reduce it. So, you know, 20 years of us chipping away at this uh uh has led to us um being in a position that the uh historic societies um are now relying on us to help them figure out how to make old buildings and old houses lead safe. So it's it's you know, it it's cool, I think, to to sort of like you you never know, like as as your business or as as the person sort of really delves into things and gets obsessed with things over the years, you never know how it's gonna pan out, right? Right. And and this one, I feel like I I just completed my capstone project where we helped create this guide to identify how lead paint is a hazard on old windows. Uh so it's great. I mean, I I I think you know, it's it's uh to have to have input and and to create a real value um beyond just the service, I think is is always uh I don't know, it it sort of makes it a really nice way to work with people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so let's talk about that. I mean, let's talk about kids and uh we always try to give some advice to young people listening. Um what's you know, uh you're in a quote unquote sexy business. Everybody's like, oh, I want to get into flipping houses or restoring houses or like what's what's the way to get into like you know, it and and in the age of AI and the age of robotics, uh, I have a funny feeling that being a good craftsman is not going away.
SPEAKER_01It'll never die. Honestly, there's there's always there's a need. I I think there's a fundamental need, and I'm sure Mara would agree with me that that you know the arts and and craft uh are are fundamental to to how people you know sort of express themselves as well as sort of release, right? Right. And I think, you know, the the the trades in particular, um and and what we are in more of the the craft side of things, you know, are are paths in in that that that aren't always a a straight line, you know, and I and I think it's always interesting for me when I see people come to my company and work for us. Um I have uh really accomplished, really talented artists that are working for us in different media, be it uh textiles or paint, um, hairdressers that work for us that understand color theory. I have a guy that was building yachts, you know, and and um, you know, so it's you end up having um people that kind of find themselves doing what we do because they find that okay, the the just building stuff isn't enough. They want to sort of get into this crazy world of restoring stuff. But in that, you know, we're just one some small subsection. So I think it's it's really important, I think, for people to to to keep sort of pursuing that that thing that gives them joy and can give them money. Uh, you know, for me, I I was working in the field and and you know, had had earned a living and and uh bought a house. And um one of the French benefits, better for worse, is you can fix your own house. Uh you know, there's just a lot of stuff that's undone in my house. Um, but I think it's it it it's sort of it's self-preservation, uh, because I always have a purpose in my house if it isn't finished. There you go.
SPEAKER_00Like otherwise you'd have to move out if it was done.
SPEAKER_01If it's done, it's just like, okay, it is no point for you anymore. No, but it's it's I think the the craft and the trades are are sort of a wonderful way to sort of for for people that don't want to follow that you know, be it an expected path of of uh being in a desk or or being behind a computer screen. Right. Um a lot of my employees sort of hate screens. Uh there you go. Some of them have flip phones still, you know, not just our dad. Uh yeah. They're hope for you flip phoners out there. There's there's a future. So yeah, it's it's it's really um I I I feel very fortunate to be amongst some really, really incredibly talented people. Um, and it's my job to just sort of help create the environment for them, the business environment, so we can function that that um it you know enables it to be a little easier because you don't want to be showing up your job one day and the company folded because the it can't function. So it's it's hard. I think yeah, I I I I if if there's anything, like I think the best thing you can learn getting into the crafts is a bit of business. Um so if there's an opportunity to to to learn, uh uh be it uh you know uh credits through local universities or or uh just working for another business a while to, you know, um, as I say, earn while you learn, um, so you don't make their mistakes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, that's Rob, it's uh it's a fascinating business. Um always in awe of your talent. I love a follow Rob on what? TikTok, on Heritage Restoration on TikTok, on Instagram, and Facebook. And Facebook. And he's he's got some good videos of how to do things. And they do own the other business, uh Heritage. I mean, excuse me, Sutherland Wells, which we had on a couple episodes ago. Rob's uh choking on his water, but uh, I am choking all the time. But um Rob, you what's the best way to get in touch with Heritage? Is go to the website?
SPEAKER_01Best way to reach out to us, uh, either our phone number um or our website. Uh there's a contact us page. Uh even through Instagram or Facebook, you can find us as well.
SPEAKER_00You guys are out at shows, you do preservation trades. You're we do. You're out there in the world of preservation. If anybody has a even a question, uh give you a call.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00All right, Rob, thanks for coming on. Coffee with cagnetas. The two cagnetas. Thanks everybody for being here. Another great episode from New York.