Tea with a New York Times Bestselling Author: Beth Ferry

Today's episode is truly special. We welcome New York Times bestselling author Beth Ferry for a rich, warm conversation about how wonder, research, and a love for a good story turn words into worlds that invite wonder.  

We also tackle today’s thornier topics. Beth draws a line between personal digital styles and generative AI that flattens voice, arguing that heart can’t be prompted. On book bans, she makes a clear case for access: stories are mirrors and windows, and removing them narrows who gets to be seen. Along the way we talk about the writing process, ideas sparked by lyrics and catalogues, fifty or so revisions, treating each book like a child who deserves equal care, and look ahead to her new middle grade novel in verse about the hard art of being happy for a friend.

If you love children’s literature, illustration craft, or the power of a perfect read‑aloud, this conversation will light you up and send you hunting for more Beth Ferry on your shelf. Subscribe, share with a bookish friend, and leave a review telling us which children’s book you’ll never outgrow. 

Find us on Instagram @teatalesandtomes and don't forget to join us next time for more bookish wonder. 

Podcast music by Lundstroem (Episode 1 onwards) and Audionautix (TTAT Trailer). Podcast edited by Timothy Wiggill. 

Transcript

Discovering Beth Ferry

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you had told me when I started this podcast that just under one year in I would be interviewing a New York Times best-selling author, I 100% would have laughed it off. But what is this wonderful life? Because here we are. Hold on to your hot drink. Bookish friends, a few months ago I picked up a book that we instantly loved. My children were completely enchanted, and even my husband, who was sitting at the table working, stopped what he was doing and leaned in to listen. That book was called Prunella and the author Beth Fairy. And then we read it again and then again and then again because these kids kept asking for it. So after all of those rereads, you know, I was completely intrigued by an author who could create such magic. I went looking for more from Beth Ferry and immediately devoured her entire catalogue, all that I could actually access. And then I did something very, very brave for me. I wrote to her, I found her email on a publisher website, and yes, I emailed her to kind of fangirl. I just had to tell her how deeply we all felt the magic of Prunella. And I wanted also to ask if by some miracle she might consider coming on the show. And I really didn't really expect a reply. But that very evening I got a response. This internationally best-selling author was writing to me. Beth Ferry wrote back grateful for the note and she said that she would love to come on the podcast. What? Bookish friends. Beth has written over 40 books and is a multiple New York Times bestselling author. Her latest book, Growing Home, her very first chapter book for middle grade, is an absolute phenomenon. It was an instant New York Times bestseller. It was named Barnes Noble's Children's Book of the Year. That's huge. It is a junior library guild selection. It was selected as Amazon's top 20 children's books of the year. And it was named Spotify's Best Family Audiobook of 2025. Yeah, it's soaring. And today we are so lucky to have Beth right here with us on Tea Tales and Tomes. It took a while for us to navigate the New Jersey, Duban South Africa time difference, but Beth and I eventually sat down with tea and coffee, her beverage of choice, to talk about children's literature, science, the writing life, artificial intelligence, and even parenting. So grab your favorite hot drink, settle in, and enjoy this wonderful conversation with the brilliant Beth Ferry. Beth, welcome to Tea Tales and Tomes.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

It is such a pleasure to have you here. So before we dive into the over 40 wonderful stories that you've penned, especially Prunella, my introduction to you as an author and the book that inspired me to write to you in the first place. So let's pick let's begin the way I imagine all my favorites bookish conversations in a cozy bookshop cafe. See, we're not face to face, so I think we get a little bit of leeway to let our imaginations run a little bit wild, I think. So let's imagine shelves stacked high with books, the soft clink of teacups in the background, and the scent of freshly baked scones in the air. Okay, I'm making myself hungry now.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

That sounds so nice.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So you're sitting at a small table by the window, a notebook maybe peeking out of your bag. And I'm a little starry-eyed because in front of me is a New York Times best-selling author. And here I am striking up a conversation with you. So, how would you describe yourself to me in this quiet, bookish corner, whether it's your background, your family, your vibe, anything that'll paint the picture of who Beth Ferry is for our listeners?

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Okay, wow. Um so yeah, I think I think I've always been a reader. I think that's how I would describe myself more than a writer. You know, that's why I began writing, is because I just wanted to read books. Um, even as a kid, that's my favorite thing to do. I always say when I visit kids that, you know, I didn't really play sports, I wasn't into music, I really just was a reader. And I think sometimes, you know, when you love books and words that much, there's really no job, you know, that pays you to read, sadly. Even editors, when you think about their jobs, they're so much more involved than just reading. In fact, they don't even have tons of time to read. So I think that I yeah, became when I had, I have three grown-up children now, but when they were little, my favorite thing to do was, you know, bedtime when you're reading books. And, you know, I really like those books that not only appealed to them, but appealed to me too. So as much as I grew up reading myself, when I was sharing books with my children, I was really kind of blown away by how amazing these books were. You know, I was like, oh my gosh, they love them as a child and I love them as an adult. And there's some kind of magic to that, where a book that's what, 600, 700 words can just, you know, make me feel something, make my kids happy, and make this magical experience of sharing reading something that is unforgettable, I think, to both, you know, the children and adults. So when one day I was like, you know, I'd really like to try to do that, make a book that makes children happy and parents happy. So it's kind of why I started to write children's books. I only write books for children for young readers. Um, and I think it's because I do think, especially picture books, you never really outgrow them. And and they always seem to, besides the art being truly art, you know, it's not just drawings, it's art that I feel like there's always like whatever the little lesson is, even if it's not a lesson, but it's humor or it's, you know, you're learning something. I just always feel I feel like it's kind of crazy how one little picture book can do so much.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, before I had kids, I was not very au fay with the world of children's literature. But, you know, I'm at the stage now where I feel that we're actually doing ourselves a disservice as adults if we're not reading kids' books. Kids' books are amazing.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

I guess they are.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

So you said your kids are all grown now. What does that feel like?

Seasons, Place, And Creative Roots

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Yeah, you know, part of me, you know, it's it's like anything, right? It's like you think you you want something and then you get it, and then you're like, do I want that? So, you know, when you're so busy running around, you're like, peace. I would just love some peace. And then, you know, then they grow up and leave, and then all you have is peace. And you're like, gosh, what I wouldn't give to have like the chaos that, you know, I did have. Um, but it is, you know, they're they're all they're all adults moved out. They're all are, you know, gainfully employed and doing well. And so that feels awesome. And then they come when they come home, it's such a treat. But yeah, they're all in their 20s and all, you know, living their lives and doing their jobs. And so um, I don't have anybody to read to, which is kind of sad.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

But you have your other babies now, your books.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Oh my gosh. And it's true. And you know, when you say that you really do, I feel like, you know, not only proud of them, but I also feel like an obligation. So when I have like a book publishing, I'm like, okay, well, I need to do an event because I have to give this book the same attention that I gave my last book. You got to do that.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

They all deserve to be treated equally.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

I love that. I love that. And that's why I never would ask an author what's their favorite book, because it's almost like asking, who's your favorite child?

SPEAKER_03 7:38

It is, and you know, honestly, it's it's really impossible to pick. And just like with your children, you know, you love different things about them. And that's kind of how your books are. You don't love them all the same, but you you feel, you know, they're yours and you created them. So you do yeah, feel protective of them.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

I also read somewhere about a furry friend in your life, an English bulldog called Chaucer. Tell me a little bit about that guy.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Right. So right. So we have always had, when I was little, I write a lot about pets, and I think it's because I really wasn't allowed to have pets as a child. We had we were allowed to have rabbits, which, you know, when I truly some of my like nightmares are are about having like a house full of rabbits. So yeah, so my husband, my husband, when we got married, the first dog we got was a bulldog because I don't know why. I just love their faces. And so this is currently our third bulldog um named Chaucer Nottingham. And he, yeah, you know, honestly, like do you have pets?

SPEAKER_01 8:36

I do. In fact, I have a cat called Kipling who's currently sneakily eavesdropping on our conversation. Something about bookish people naming their pets after famous writers, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:47

It's so true. I feel like Chaucer just it was like a family vote, well voted, but and I don't know if even all if if my kids have all read Chaucer. They probably haven't. I don't know if they even have a difficult one to read.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

I mean, once you're into it, you're into it, but it's not the easiest read.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

No, and I feel like you have to like be taking that class in like whatever century English literature. But yes, he's um, and and I also have a French bulldog too, um, named Gaston, after I guess Beauty of the Beast. So I didn't name that one. But yeah, but it's nice, you know, they keep you company. It's really, you know, you never feel alone when you have a pet. And that's something that's super nice.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Oh, that's lovely. I I I love that. And like I said, you know, Kipling's definitely going to meow and disrupt my record recording at any minute now. Right. Is it a she or a he? It's a girl, yeah. It's a she. I actually thought she was a boy when she was a kitten, and that's why we called her Kipling, but then found out it was a girl.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

I kind of like that when, you know, you can't, you know, they're especially when you're using like authors' last names. It could be anything, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

It's true, that is true. So, you know, I'm looking out the window as I sit here chatting to you, and where I am in Durban, South Africa, it's early evening, the sun is setting, and we're heading into the warmer months. Spring is definitely in the air. But where you are, it's quite a different picture. It's barely lunchtime, halfway across the world in New Jersey. So tell us what it's like at the moment as you look out your window.

Prunella’s Spark: The Corpse Flower

SPEAKER_03 10:19

It is the sun is shining, but today is the first day, actually, that it feels like fall. So fall usually starts the end of September. And it has been, honestly, we call it like local summer. So, like all the because I happen to live by the beach, and so we get a lot of visitors coming to the beaches. And so when September comes and everyone's back to school and you really have no tourists, you're like, this is our summer, September. But then it always gets cold. And today's the first day where it actually felt cold, where you felt like you needed to have a coat on. Um, otherwise, it's truly been like summer weather here. So today feels like the first day of fall, which I also love.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah, so will the trees turn orange and all of the stuff that you see in movies?

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Yes, they do. Oh no, we just honestly, just the other day, we were like, look at that tree. It was so orange. It was so, I mean, honestly, stopping you in your tracks, even though you see it every year, because the colors are magnificent. They really are. It's really nice.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

I love that. Um, where I am, it's subtropical, so we barely have seasons. Um, so yeah, I love, I love reading about it. I love the coziness of autumn uh in temperate regions. I also love how amazing it is that your stories have traveled across seasons and skies and they're reaching people all over the world. I mean, here I am in Durban talking to you about your books.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

It is wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

It really is. And and I have this strange idea that books and stories come into your life just when you need it. And that's a whole pod episode on itself. But speaking of stories finding their readers, the reason I reached out to you was because I came across your book, Prunella, during my search for sort of atmospheric, seasonal, October-ish reads. And from the get-go, Prunella was an immediate hit with my entire family. So, and after, after in, I I kid you not, I'm not even just saying that because I'm talking to you. I had to email you and gash over this book. And after innumerable rereads, we decided to dive into your backlist and basically read almost everything you wrote that we could get our hands on, from stick and stone to magnetic to swash me by the sea, you name it. If we could get our hands on it, we've read it and we've loved them. And somewhere along this reading journey, I found out that some of your books, including Stick and Stone and your newest middle grade novel, are New York Times bestsellers. Oh my god. Obviously, it makes sense because the books are just so good. But it was also so cool because this is probably one of the most influential lists globally, as far as book goes. I mean, I don't need to tell you this. But can you take me back to that moment, Beth, when you first found out that one of your books had made that list, that New York Times list. What was that like?

Words Into Pictures: Illustration Alchemy

SPEAKER_03 13:05

You know what's funny about book journeys, and every book journey and every author has a different experience, but you even have different book journeys with your own book. So Stick and Stone being my first book. Um, so when I when I started to write, I was writing, why do you write what you write? Because something interests you. And you're spending so much time with your topics or whatever you're writing that you really do have to love it, right? You can't write about something that you don't feel passionate about. But I also was learning, I was learning about the publishing process because most people, and I do, you know, throughout my life, you write for yourself. You write because I don't know, why do you write? You write because you feel like you want to use words creatively. You, you know, not even tell a story, even if you're just, you know, writing a letter or writing, I'm gonna say a diary, but you know, any any type of writing for yourself, um, a journal or a, you know, and then you you start to enjoy words. And I really think I've always enjoyed words. But when I said, Oh, I'm gonna try to write a children's book, like a picture book. So I'm writing about pirates, I'm writing about things that I just that make me happy, not specifically because I'm thinking about getting published, but that's something that you learn quickly, right? Writing for yourself is not the same thing as writing to be published. And so what I learned early on was that two things really. You only have two minutes maybe to keep the attention of a prospective publisher, right? They they are so busy, they have so many, you know, things that they're working on. They're not spending, they're not, you know, if your book is not good in the beginning, they're not getting to the end. You know, so your ending might be great, but who knows if your reader's prospective publisher is even getting to the ending because if they don't like the beginning, they're gonna stop reading. So that's something that you're like, oh, wait, I really have to think about that. And the second is your word count. When I was young, books were very long, like thousands of words picture books. Now they're very short. Like if you read, like even Prunella, Prunella's pretty long for a picture book. Stick and stone is 135 words. So when I wrote it, I was intentionally trying to write a full story that was very short because I was trying to get published and I needed to get someone's attention without taking up a lot of time, which seems so crazy now that I think about it in retrospect. But so I wanted to write about friendship. And so, you know, you're like, oh great, there's no friendship books, right? Ha ha, there's thousands of them, right? So how are you writing? But I I felt like my kid, I think at the time that I was writing, my youngest was um in middle school. So, you know, she was maybe 12 or 13. And how I don't know, how old are your children? Uh nine and six. Nine and six. Okay, so you're not there yet. So and I, and and you know, you might never be when I say like it's challenging. It, you know, she I have two boys and a daughter, and this was my daughter, and friendships were challenging. And I was actually like paying a lot of attention to like how hard it was be a friend, have a friend. And I think that when I decided to write about friendship, I really thought, you know, it is it it never changes. You know, when you're little, you know, your first friends are your family and books. And then when you get older, you know, now you're like, who who is your friend? How do you find someone who has something in common with that? Absolutely. Yeah. And so, and but in in middle school, the same thing. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's really hard to be a good friend. So friendship, you know, just seemed to be like something smart to universal, let's say, that every age deals with. And no matter where you live in the world, right? Friendship is friendship. So that's how I got the idea for stick in stone. And yeah, so I, you know, I wrote it and then I sold it. And then they told me my illustrator is named Tom Lichtenheld, and he is a very, I mean, his art is amazing, but he's also was busy. So they were like, he's the perfect person for you, but you have to, he, he's he's so busy that your book won't come out for four years.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Whoa.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

So, you know, and and you know, I think now if that happened to me, I'm like, oh, no problem. But back then I'm like, wait a minute, four years? Wow, that's so long. So, you know, and I did, I and I first was, I was like, I don't think I can wait that long, you know, for my first book. And they were like, no, no, he's worth it, and he was worth it. So when we published the book, you know, it was four years after I had written it, which was a very long time. And it came out in April of 2015, and I think it hit the New York Times in August of 2015. So to be honest, I have no idea how the New York Times, I still don't. I don't exactly know how it works. Like how many books are sold to make the bestseller list? I truly don't know. By it came out in April, and it normally I think books make it when they first, you know, get published, which was my experience with my middle grade novel, Growing Home. It made it the first week it was published. So I didn't even, I just wasn't even thinking about it. I didn't even think it could be a thing. So when I got the call in August, and they were like, it hit the bestseller list. We were like, why? And awesome and wow. But more like why? Why now? Why in August, four months, April, May, June, July. Yeah, four months after it came out. But I can remember truly, I was jumping, jumping for joy, like physically jumping, because I I didn't even have it on my radar. So it was such a beautiful surprise.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

That's amazing. It just sounds like one of those dream come true moments, especially because it's your first book. But you know, four years, it was worth the wait.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

I know. I mean, really, you were like, wow. So it was it was I'll never forget it. I can picture myself like where I was when I found out and how you know I was telling my husband and truly jumping. So it was so nice.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Oh wow, that that sounds amazing. It's such it seems like such an extraordinary moment for writer. And like you said, it's happening again with growing home.

unknown 18:49

Yeah, yeah.

Eyes, Emotion, And Visual Storytelling

SPEAKER_01 18:50

I love it. So congratulations on that. That's just so amazing. So, my personal experience with your books is that you have this way of writing stories that make children giggle one minute and then go very quiet and very thoughtful, introspective, even the next. Like something inside them just kind of lands. And as I first started reading Prunella Aloud, so it's just a book about a girl who loves strange plants like Venus flytraps and prickly cactuses, whose parents worry about her finding friends and community and yet supporting her strange passions anyway. And I could see from the way my kids kind of still gathered in closer to me. My husband was busy working on the laptop on some work-related thing, and then he stopped to listen. I was looking over my shoulder at the illustrations. And as soon as I finished, my youngest Jazz, he asked me, Mom, just read it again, please. So can you take us back? It was amazing. It really was. And you know, I love it when a book does that. I love it when it brings everybody together, and I love it when my kids ask me to reread things. I'm such a huge proponent of rereading. Can you, you know, it's like you get so much more every time you read that story and pour over those illustrations. So, can you take us back to where Prunella specifically began? That first spark, that first idea that made you think, ah, there's a story here.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Not all, and this this is a question you get a lot about some of your, you know, most of your stories, and most of them don't have really good. I'm like, I don't know, you know, but this one. So when when I first um, you know, when I I guess we were making our first garden, we were, you know, planting around our house. So this is, you know, a long time ago. And I remember buying a bulb called a voodoo lily. And I just thought it it and yeah, and I was like, this is wow, how cool. I'm gonna plant this and it's gonna be so cool. So I did, I planted it and it bloomed. And all of a sudden, we would go out to the garden and we'd be like, Oh, did something die? Like, did a mouse die? Like, I can smell death. I'm not even thinking. And we would, and then we'd be like, Oh my god, it's the flower. Because this flower, called the corpse flower, voodoo lily, smells like death, and it is always covered in flies. That's a small native. Exactly. So you're kind of like, well, this isn't what I was thinking. And it's really cool looking because it's like dark purple, but it smelled so bad. And it would happen, and I would forget about it because it only blooms, it only really blooms for like a week. But then it does spread like most bulbs, they spread. So one year I was like, I can't live with this, it's so terrible. So I dug it up. I dug it up and I threw it over the fence and forgot about it. The next year it came. And the next year, and no matter how many times I dug it up, I couldn't. And then one year I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna write a story about it. And so that's really so I couldn't kill it, and now I won't kill it because now I have Prunella. Um, but yeah, it's really, it was like a plant that I couldn't kill as much as I tried and smelled like death. And I thought. Thought, you know, there's people who like things like this. And you know, my kids had Venus sidetraps. And then I started, and what I love most about writing fictional books like Prunella is that you get to do a lot of research because it's fiction. But I always, gosh, if I can have some nonfiction in my fiction books, it really makes me happy. And so I learned all about, you know, carnivorous plants and all the weird and spiky plants that exist and protect themselves. You know, they protect themselves, which you don't really think about like until you start learning. Um so I love the nonfiction aspect of Prunella, even though obviously it's completely fiction.

Pacing, Pagination, And Read‑Aloud Flow

SPEAKER_01 22:35

I love it too. And I'm definitely gonna touch on that later. A thread through your books. There's definitely some amazing science happening there. But this is such a lovely story. I love the story, how this single idea, the single plant, your voodoo lily, grows into a story that resonates so widely. And there's this beautiful, I mean, I'm gonna gush again, but it there's this beautiful balance of humor and heart in this book. And it deals with very real scenarios, you know, very real concerns. I think parents all over the world can relate to us stressing out about will our kids fit in. Uh, you know, we see them engage or this we see them with their strange interests and think, ah, you know, I love that about them. I love their weird quirks, but is this gonna harm them later on? Um you said it earlier, you know, this is it's universal themes. And what really tips this book into the extraordinary category for me and makes it even more magical is seeing the story come alive through the illustrations. What was it like for you when you saw the story transformed visually for that first time?

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Yeah, you know, I think when, you know, most times I write without envisioning the illustrations because I know I'm not illustrating it, so I don't waste my time imagining what the character is going to look like. So you always are surprised when you get your illustrations because, you know, you're like, how is that illustrator taking my words and bringing them to life? And so I really I didn't know if Prunella was gonna be, you know, she's so realistic, you know, this book, you know, in terms of they look like people. I wasn't sure, you know, because the the illustrator could have made them like more cartoony and feeling, you know, less realistic. So I was super happy with how she looked like just a regular girl. Yeah, I think you first see sketches in black and white, and you know, it's just Claire, her, you know, her colors, just even like it's dark, but it's not spooky. Like I feel like there's, you know, she uses a lot of saturated colors. It just did. It felt, it felt exactly right for the book. And so that's also a gift to an author when you see your art and you're happy.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Absolutely. And I always joke that I judge books by their covers, and that's exactly what happened in this instance. The title, yes, but also the colors immediately invited me in. There's this almost um tangible sense of movement, there's magic in every spread. And yes, you're right, you know, there's deep purples, there's some sunset hues, lush greens. It really, your illustrator here really brought the story to life, and it really shows the power of collaboration. And um, I've seen a similar thing with your other books as well, you know, a really wonderful matchup between the words and the pictures. And I see that you've collaborated with some of my favorite illustrators like Lorena Alvarez and Magnetic, the fan brothers, oh my gosh, they're so amazing, and other and other absolute magicians when it comes to children's book illustrations. However, has it ever happened that an illustrator didn't quite interpret your words in the way you expected on the first go? That it wasn't exactly what you had in mind. Has that ever happened?

AI, Authenticity, And The Creative Heart

SPEAKER_03 25:50

It does happen, and I you you say the word collaboration, but really it's it's an you're not really physically collaborating. I'm not ever speaking to the illustrators. So which kind of seems counter-yeah, it seems counterintuitive because you're like, okay, you see two names on a book, you kind of assume that there's a conversation happening, and there really isn't. And so, in my first experience with Stick and Stone and Tom Lichtenheld, like he is a perfectionist. And so he did, he, I think he did three full like dummy. A dummy is what you call like the sketches for a book. It's just called a dummy. I don't know why. Um, but he did like three full dummies of different ways he could take the book and shared them, which is also unheard of. So, you know, he was like, we could do this way, like, you know, he had one that was like more focused on typography, having the, you know, sentences be part of the page. But ultimately we settled on the playground. Like Stick and Stone basically takes place kind of on a playground because it is seemed the most like universal for children's friendships. But that experience, I was like, oh, you know, you kind of like that's your first experience. You're like, this is what must always happen. And that's not true. So I think, but I've also learned you kind of know going in that you are giving, you're giving up. If you have a vision, you're giving up your vision. You're not really, no one's asking you what your vision is. So my do you know the book The Scarecrow by the Fan Brothers? Yes, absolutely. Yes, yes, I love it. And that to me, I mean, that is very close to my heart. I love that book. But when they first drew the scarecrow, they had given him button eyes. So in every you know, when you think about if you see a scarecrow, I mean, do you even have scarecrows?

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Um, no, we actually, I haven't seen one in real life.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

So funny. Right. And it seems so silly. You're like, do they really work? Like, do scarecrows really work? I don't know. But it's very common here. You know, I live like where I live, there's like lots of farms, and you do. I mean, now they're more for decorations, but you know, they you you really they do have button eyes. And so and their art is truly stunning. Like it took my breath away. But every time I saw the scarecrow, I was like, I don't love him because I can't love someone with inexpressive eyes or unexpressive eyes. That's so funny. And so for me, I think it might have the scarecrow might have been, I don't know, one of my very early books, like maybe the fourth book I ever sold. And so I really wasn't sure what I was doing. And I was afraid to say something. I'm like, oh my gosh, like this is how they drew the picture, but I don't love it. And I really agonized over whether I should say something, but I finally did. I finally emailed my editor and said, I just don't love the button eyes. Can they possibly do something different? Which they did. They then like did it, turned it into like paint, but then they were able to manipulate the eyes to show emotion. And I think it's really hard to love a character that doesn't show emotion. And so that might have been like my first experience with, you know, not being happy with a part of the art and then, you know, finding the courage, I'm not even joking, to say something because it is this very, you know, delicate relationship. I don't know the fan brothers, you know, I've never spoken to them, never met them, and yet I'm kind of saying, I don't like how you made my character, which, you know, is not easy, but I'm really glad that I did because now I love it so much.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

That's such interesting insight. It's actually fascinating for me to learn about the publishing world in this way. And you know, when you speak about the eyes and it them being button eyes and the need for it to be expressive, I think especially when you're writing children's books, eyes are so important. They they converse so much.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

They do. More than anything, to be honest. Like, you know, smile or not smile, but the eyes, like when you think about when you meet someone, you're really looking at their eyes. Um and I find, yeah, now when I considering an illustrator, that's the first I when I look at all their previous art, it's the it's the first thing I look at is how do they make eyes? Are their eyes something that I like? You know, because there's lots of, but and when I think of stick and stone, so stick and stone, they have dot eyes. Yes, dot eyes. And yet their eyes, however he did it, it's truly, I still sometimes marvel over the expressions. And you know, he uses a mouth too, but how he can give a stick and a stone such personality, but it's also how he draws their eyes, even though some are dot, some are not. Like then because he uses a dot on some pages, he then changes it to like, you know, with their squinting or their, you know, googly eyes, and it changes the whole experience when you look at their eyes.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

That is so true. And even so, I was actually just chatting to my kids about a similar thing, because you know, about drawing and how sometimes just a little line can change someone's expression entirely, like a line between the eyes can make someone look angry. Uh, you know, a little dimple makes you look a little bit more friendly, or something like that, you know. And you're right about stick and to stick and stone. It is so expressive.

Weaving Science Into Wonder

SPEAKER_03 30:54

So expressive, right? With yeah, and the eyes are the main tool that he uses. So when he and I sometimes will we will travel and we'll you know talk to kids and he'll do a drawing and he'll say, give me an emotion, and the kids will yell out, you know, angry, scared, hungry, and then he'll draw stick or stone, and it's really the first thing he draws are their eyes. And because that's probably just eat that up. Yeah, because they're also learning. Like it's so funny because a lot of times you're you know, you're looking at art as a as a done, finished piece, you know, and you don't really think like, oh, well, where did the artist start? Like, what do they start with? You know, like how do they, you know, where's the first line that they draw on the page? And I find that really fascinating to see how, you know, how they draw and where they start. Do they start at the top, at the bottom? Do they start, you know, with the shape of the body? And then, I mean, that's what he does. He does the shape, and then the first thing he does is the eyes, which I thought was just really cool.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Uh, I that it it really is, actually. And as someone who is such a huge proponent of the power of picture books for all ages, including and maybe even especially adults, I really appreciate, you know, listening to you speak about this. It really does offer quite a unique lens. And then I just think that, you know, when when the reader is actually reading the picture book, they're bringing their own dimensions to the story by interpreting the words and the pictures in their own unique ways as well.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Exactly. Exactly. Well, I so I have traveled with Tom a number of times just to different events and things, and sometimes we'll like be in a bookstore. And so we'll both pick up the same book. And when I read a picture book, the very first thing I do is read the story, the words, without looking at the pictures. I mean, you know, you kind of glance at them, but I'm not studying them. And then I go back and I read it looking at the words, uh at the picture. So I do the words first and then the pictures, and he does the opposite. He'll be like, oh my gosh, like this page. And I'm like, oh, the words. Like, so I'm totally focused on the words and he's totally focused on the art. And it's funny how it just, you know, you go back and you then appreciate that other aspect. But yeah, the first thing I do is just read the words to see how the words make me feel.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

That's amazing. And it just makes me think about a conversation I had with one of my son's teachers, because they're obviously reading aloud in class as like part of assessments and whatever. And like sometimes she would say, you know, he'd be reading and then he just stops because what's happening is he's now taking in the picture and he doesn't, he's just like he's completely absorbed by the illustration that the words are forgotten.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

You're hoping that when you make a book, the words and the pictures are married so seamlessly that that's you know, that you are able to do it all at the same time. You know, you can read the words, you know, even when you think about how books are laid out and how they decide how many words go on each page, or why sometimes it's a single page spread, sometimes it's a double page spread, how that affects the pacing. Because, you know, how you paginate and lay out the words and the art affects how the reader reads.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Absolutely. That is so true. Uh, but you know, as we're talking about this, I'm thinking about something slightly more controversial, I guess, and that's artificial intelligence. So there's so much discussion and fear around AI at the moment and the use of AI to illustrate books, and worse still, to even write books. And I'm probably being hopelessly old-fashioned and feel perhaps too strongly that the space should remain completely human-driven. So, Beth, when you see new technology or tools coming into the picture book world, does it inspire new ideas for writing, or does it feel like more of a challenge to protect this craft that you so obviously love?

Process, Rituals, And Relentless Revision

SPEAKER_03 34:35

Yeah, I my kids, I have one son who's more into the tech part of you know, his job. And so he he talks about AI all the time and he'll show me, he'll be like, look what like he'll make AI, whatever that means, you know, give it a prompt to make a piece of, you know, like an octopus skiing, or he'll just play, like he's having fun playing. And yeah, and I look at it and I'm like, yeah, like I'm like, it looks fake. That's what I say. I'm like, it looks fake. But I also notice different illustrators that I work with, like some are only digital, like Marcia's magnetic. I'm pretty sure all her art is digital. She does it all on the computer, and yet it also is specifically hers. Like you can, I can, when I look at books, I know her books from anywhere. I'm like, oh, that's Lorena. Like I can see her style, even though she's only digital. Um, but I have also played with AI just to see. Like, I'll be like, write a poem about, and I just hate it all. I hate it. I feel like it just, there's nothing that I've ever done through AI where I think, oh, that's better than a human could do ever. So maybe I'm not giving it the right prompts, but I also think I don't know all that much about it, but you know, it where's the heart? I don't know if it how it can imbue heart into a story based on all the books that's ever been shown, you know, millions of writings, you know, that it's been given. And I don't play with it a lot. But every once in a while, like I'll be like, you know, like one time I was writing a book that needed a spell, and I was like, write me a spell. Like everything I'm like, nope, nope, nope. And then I just was like, yeah, I'm gonna obviously do it myself, but I I did dabble just to see, and nothing, I just didn't like anything that it produced. But maybe I'm doing it right.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

I agree with you. No, I I agree with you. I think also because I'm often on social media, you know, on Instagram, and sometimes I see people uh obviously using AI to write captions or to create some of the content. And it's actually quite obvious sometimes, you know, because it's very generic.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Very generic.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

I I think that you know, we don't know, like you said, it's there's a heart, there's a heart element that we don't fully understand about the creative process, which I'm hoping that AI will never get.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

I agree. It's gonna be really interesting. I know even sometimes you get emails and you're like, did this person write this email themselves? Exactly. You know, you can't ask. That's the other horrible thing, is that there's this other weird, like human, I guess, part of matters. I'm not sure that you're not gonna say, like, did you write your own email?

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah, like actually, I I was debating that today because I I also, you know, Tea Tales and Homes is a gentle part of the listening world, but I do get a very visceral visceral reaction when I see influences or bookish influences using AI or using it so much. And I wanted to comment. I was like, you know, I really love what you've done here, but I think your message would have been better had you not used AI. But anyway, I didn't.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

No, good thing. I'm sure that wouldn't tell me. That's also something that I find crazy, right? It's like, oh, so you know, you can't you can't be truthful about something. Is that insulting to say? And I kind of think it is, because it is an insult to tell someone that, oh, your thing is written by AI. And but then why should they be insulted? Because they didn't even do it themselves. Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

But but I'm gonna pivot again, well, not really, because we are speaking about science and technology. And it reminds me of something else I've noticed across so many of your books, from Stick and Stone, Um, The Scarecrow, Prunella, Marsha's Magnetic, and so many more. There's often a subtle and sometimes not so subtle scientific bent to your stories. So whether it's exploring how animals interact, the way ecosystems work, electromagnetism, patterns and processes in nature, the scientific method, which I absolutely adored, spelled out in Martha's magnetic. I loved it so much. And my favorites, the actual scientific names and descriptions in Prunella. Just as an aside, I have a friend who's an extremely passionate botanist named Savannah, who I know is gonna rush out to get Prunella as soon as she hears this episode. She's gonna be so amazed about your scientific descriptions in this book. And as a scientist myself, I'm a marine biologist, I cannot begin to tell you how exciting this is to me. And the way you do it is not it's not obvious, it's not didactic, it's just woven so beautifully in the story. And I'm just curious, you know, is that something you do deliberately? And how do you balance that whimsy and the humor of a children's book with scientific fact?

SPEAKER_03 39:19

That is it's such a good question because I think I am not a scientist and I don't even think scientifically, I'm totally all like literature, literature, words, words, words. One of my favorite parts of writing any story is the research part. I truly am, because you can make up anything, right? But sometimes you don't need to because nature has already done it. And that's what I love about Prunello. The book, you know, even the very, you know, there's in the end papers, how many? I don't know, third, 20. I don't even know how many species of plants I put in there, but I I was blown away. I was so happy, like learning. I'm like, wow, I didn't know that. Like all the like there's strange and wonderful things that just exist in nature that we don't even know about. And it's such a treat. Truly, that's how I felt. I was like, I love to put this in for those kids that just eat that stuff up, that love to know this is our world. This is like not fiction. These plants exist and they have these strange, you know, adaptations for a reason. They need to do what they need to do to survive. And I just, I don't know. I'm I love like even Marsha's magnetic, just learning about magnetism. Like, I don't know anything about that, but that's the best part, honestly, when you're first writing and you're so excited about your plot or your idea, and then I'm always like, oh, can I weave any little like nonfiction into this story? Because I'm fascinated by real real world wonders, let's say. That's what I'm gonna call it.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Absolutely. And and you know what? We really did eat it right up, and then we read it again. It was just so lovely to see that.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

And you know, I thank you.

Quick‑Fire: Coffee, Oceans, And Books

SPEAKER_01 40:53

And and I think it is, you know, you can tell that a lot of research and a lot of work went into it. That's how you're able to weave these stories that are just so rich. And um, it's a reminder, I think, to me, and hopefully everyone that's listening that picture books aren't just full of so bedtime snuggles, that's great too. But they're just these tiny worlds so full of discovery and imagination. And like you just said, everyday magic. Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

Yeah, and you do, you hope, you know, because you, you know, like even there's like the words like the botanist and and the now I can't even. And I thought, like, you know, maybe some kid is reading this that doesn't even know that that exists because true, I didn't know it existed before I started studying it. And you think, like, maybe, maybe some kid's gonna be like, I'm gonna look into that. I'm gonna study fungi because like some of the funguses have the coolest names, first of all. Like their names are beautiful. They're beautiful, right? And they're like growing on a decomposing log somewhere in the forest, right? But yeah, you never know where where if your story is gonna touch on something. But again, you can only do you're spending so much time. Like it takes me probably a year, and you know, not every single day, and I'm always working on more than one story, but I probably spent a year writing Prunella on and off, you know, like writing it, researching it, that first excitement where you get your first draft down, and then you spend some time away and you do other things, and then you read it with fresh eyes, and then you know, you try again. I I always say, for me, the word that I'm looking for as a writer is satisfaction. I want to be satisfied when I am done with a book. I want to feel like I am, do I feel satisfied? And you hope that when child or adult or whatever, anyone reading your book, that when they close the cover finally, that's the word that they feel satisfied, they're feel satisfied that you know the plot has been resolved, but they've also like, I don't know, you think about how long does it take to read a picture book? 10 minutes if you're reading it out loud, if you're reading it to yourself, way less. Yeah, but that's the word I'm seeking is satisfaction. Am I satisfied with my book? And will my reader be satisfied when they're finished?

SPEAKER_01 43:03

That's amazing. I love that. And I'm still convinced that you have a hidden science degree somewhere or a lab where you cook up cool experiments with your children. But okay, we'll we'll keep it hush hush. But let's talk about the behind the scenes side of your writing life. So I read somewhere that one of your earlier stories was inspired by a line from a song, Drops of Jupiter by Train. I love that song. And as soon as I read that, I needed to immediately know more about Bad Fairy's writing life. So, what does a typical writing day look like for you? How do you nurture your ideas? Do you have rituals or little habits that help you to return to your story when life gets a bit busy or crazy?

Reading Freely In A Banned‑Books Era

SPEAKER_03 43:41

Yeah, I think I, you know, I treat writing as my job. So I'm always, you know, I always have like three or four stories going. Most of my ideas truly are sparked from words. So it's I'm either reading, even drops of Jupiter, like that inspired my first book, Stick and Stone, because I heard the line can you imagine your Best friend sticking up for you. And I was like, oh, I can imagine that. And it just seemed like poignant at the time. My daughter was in seventh grade. And can you imagine your best friend sticking up for you? And I just was like, yes, I can. And shouldn't everyone have a best friend? But that's how it's usually I hear words or I see a word. Like even the title for Prunella, I got a, I think it was like a gardener's catalog in the mail, you know, to order bulbs and flowers and things. And when I flipped it over, one of the flowers was called Prunella. And so I had, so I was like, I didn't even prunella's the name of a plant. Like I didn't even know. It's like a purple, I think they use it for you know medicinal purposes sometimes, but it's a purple plant. And I was like, oh, that's a perfect name. That's a great name. It is. It actually is. Always, yeah, like looking at words, like words jump out at me. And when I'm reading a book, I'll see a word. Or I really enjoy alliteration and wordplay. And sometimes that's just how I get my ideas. And then I write it down. And then do I go back to it? Sometimes, sometimes I don't. It just, you know, it depends. But I do, I spend most of my time rewriting rather than writing. Writing is getting it down. I always say first drafts, and I say this to kids all the time, because you know how many times kids want to redo their stuff? Once. They want to redo it once and be done. And so one of my favorite things when I visit schools is to tell kids like the number of revisions that most of my books take. And I think my average is about 50. Whoa. And right. Like who doesn't want to cry when they hear that? Like 50 times. That I think is what it takes. It takes, you know, and also as any child who's writing, you know, wants to spend the minimum amount of time. I also say, like, read your stories out loud when you're writing any, not even your stories, when you're writing anything, because your brain is pretty smart. And your brain will like automatically fix things that aren't really fixed. It'll just skip over it if you're reading it to yourself. Because, you know, you know how they have you ever seen that thing where they can, you know, put words out of uh order? I have seen that, yes. And your brain just fixes it because your brain knows what it's supposed to be. And so picture books are meant to be read aloud. And so I always read my stories aloud. And, you know, how does it flow? Like, is it flowing? Is it easy to say? You know, because in general, you're never reading your book aloud to most of your books are being read aloud by somebody else. And so you're trying to make it like foolproof so that whoever's reading it aloud is not going to stumble or, you know, it has some type of rhythm that, again, is foolproof. So hopefully it sounds the way that you are imagining it's sounding when someone else is reading it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

The cadence and stuff. And it's really important because you know, kids are kids are quite discerning. That's why I trust their judgment with books, you know.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

And you know, and that, and it is, it's this struggle, right, between what do kids like, what do I like? I mean, I, you know, there's so many books, and there should be, because obviously there's so many different interests. You have to spend, like I said, years sometimes with your story. So you really do have to like what you're writing about because sometimes you never want to read it again. You're like, I just like, you know, it usually takes like I'm done writing it and I've sold it, and then it comes out like three years later. And by that time, I'm like, oh, good, I can read this again because I've read it hundreds and hundreds of times, and you kind of don't want to ever read it.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

That is so true. It makes me think about when I was looking to do a PhD and I remember my supervisor saying, you know, you're gonna have to pick a topic that you really love because this is all you're gonna be doing for the next three years. What was your topic? Can I ask? Oh gosh, I've I've I went through so many iterations. So there was one where I wanted to do some behavioral ecology of sharks. Uh, there was another one. Yeah, there was another one where I took a little bit of a pivot and wanted to do more terrestrial stuff because I I fell in love with redwoods and I was just interested in trees and protecting green spaces. I actually just parked the PhD for a bit once my babies came around. But you know what? We never know where the future goes.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

No, that's true. So yeah. So are you do you live by the ocean? I know I'd be able to do it. I do a marine by us.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Yes, I do. I very, very close to a beautiful. We've got a warm ocean along our coastline. It's it's a lovely spot. Are you ready to do a little bit of a rapid fire round? So quick questions, first answer that comes to your mind. Um all right. So just a little bit of behind the scenes again as a writer, thinker, dreamer behind all these incredible books. Tea, coffee, or a spiced latte. Coffee. That is such an American thing.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

I really get up in the morning only because of coffee. If there was more coffee, I think I would stay in bed all day. Because do all the American writers say coffee?

SPEAKER_01 48:49

That's okay. No, no, no. It's it's just that, uh, okay, so I think also I'm Indian South African, so South African of Indian uh descent, and so tea is a very big thing in my culture. However, my husband is very much into proper coffee, full to coffee, making it in the morning. I love the smell of coffee, and I love this yeah, I love the social aspect of it, but the taste maybe not so much.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

I grew up, my family only drank tea. So when I grew up, that's all we had. We never had coffee. And then my husband, that's all he drank was coffee. It's just through the I would smell it, and that's exactly right. That smells so good. But my coffee is, you know, milk, sugar, like my kids drink it black, and I'm like, why? Like there's no reason. So I hear you with that. But yeah, tea, like I I want tea at night and I want coffee in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Oh, isn't that weird? I love that actually. Tea is just so comforting for me. Comforting.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Oh, I totally agree. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

So a book from your childhood that still holds a special place in your heart.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

I I, you know, and I say childhood, but I I think of To Kill a Mockingbird. Um, do you know that story? Yes, absolutely. That story. And you know, I probably wasn't a child child. Um, you know, I was I who I don't even know when I would have read that 10 or 12 or something, but that book still, I I try to read it every year. I never do, but I I could, I could read it every year because I just, I don't know, everything about it is right. It just works on every level. I just it makes me feel, it makes me care, and it's so beautifully written. And yeah, so I would say to kill a locking bird.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

And every time I read it, I find myself crying. No matter how many times I read it, I still find myself crying. I love it. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

Can Atticus Finch not be a real person? Like another. And I think those are, I think that that's what I love the best about books. There's so many. I'm like, can't you just be real? Like, why can't you just be real?

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Yes, absolutely. Okay, so one thing in nature that never fails to make you stop and notice. Oh, the ocean.

What’s Next: A Novel In Verse

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Just everything about the ocean. Yeah. Like I went to the beach. I I live about 10 minutes from the beach, and I went yesterday um just for a walk, and there were dolphins. Oh, and you're just like, oh, hello, like, oh my god. Like, I just it felt like someone's giving you a gift. You know, you're standing on the beach and it's you know, nice out, but it's fall, but there's dolphin swimming. And I just do, I think the ocean always just has, you know, again, the un you know discovered depths, but what's in the ocean? And just even sometimes things that wash up on the sand, it's like a constant treasure hunt. And I love that about the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Absolutely. I always tell my husband that, like, you know, if I'm ever feeling grumpy, just take me to the beach. Because the waves are the sound of the waves, and the water is just a perfect reset.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

So, what book is currently on your nightstand?

SPEAKER_03 51:43

Oh, I just finished actually. Um, it's called Demon Copperhead. It's by Barbara Kingsolver. Do you know? Oh my gosh, I I actually have it on my holes on my Libby app.

unknown 51:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 51:56

Yeah, I just finished it. And so I haven't started a new book yet. Um, you know, I find it so clever, um, you know, because David Copperfield, you know, and the same, you know, she she's making, I I guess, a statement, indictment, I guess, of, you know, rural America and the drugs, you know, that take over life there. Um, the same way, kind of that Charles Dickens was talking about the workhouses in England. And so, you know, I kind of knew that's what I knew about the plot, but yeah, it was very long. I feel like it's I was just gonna say it's a bit of a tome off a book. Yes, very tomish. Um, and maybe not needed to be that long. There were parts where I was like, uh, okay, like what's the plot? Like, but in general, yeah, it was really it was sad but good. So I'm glad that I read it. But no, I don't know what I'm reading next, which is kind of exciting.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

And you're going into cozy reading season, so I'm sure you're gonna find something lovely.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Yeah, I'm sure. And I sometimes like I when I walk on the beach, I always have a book on tape, and then I have like my physical book that I read. I don't have a reader, like an e-reader, because I don't like that. I like to read.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

I also love audiobooks. I love listening to books.

SPEAKER_03 53:05

Oh, and if the narrator is right, I mean if the narrator's on it does, it changes your whole experience.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

It really does. And if it's bad, it also. Okay, I completely agree. I completely agree with you. So last one. Oh yeah, go ahead. The last one in our our quick fire round. Um, I'm such a snacker while reading, so I have to ask, what's your favorite snack to eat while reading? Probably popcorn.

SPEAKER_03 53:31

I know. Sometimes it's messy. I mean, you know, it's it, I the dogs also love popcorn. So I say that with the caveat of once I have the popcorn and my book, and they're just staring at me. And so it's kind of like not as enjoyable as it should be because they just want some popcorn. So I'm like trying to read, and they're just like whining to throw me some popcorn. Um, woman. Yeah, you're crunching. And we're people too. We deserve a treat.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Oh, that was such a fun and lovely glimpse into your world. Before we wrap up, I I want to plug, uh, just before we wrap up, I want to plug one of your other books, A Raw for Reading, which is such a joyful celebration of books and the power of reading to connect us. It's just so important right now, I feel, you know, very timely when books, especially children's books, are being challenged or banned and essentially contributing to the erasure of people's lived experiences. Would you like to share a message to kids and grown-ups about the importance of stories being freely shared?

Gratitude, Hope, And Closing Reflections

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Yeah, I always think it's so fascinating to me when we have social media that's ruining the world, but we're not banning that. We're banning books, and I also think it just goes to show you the power of books, right? Because why are we banning books? Because they're powerful. And it's also and and think about a book. A book doesn't just like think about any type of social media post, right? Five seconds and you can be posting anything you think without any real thought behind it. Books take years to publish, they've been read and rereaded, edited. And so, you know, there are people that are saying this is worthy because it's not just like the top of your head thought that you're just spewing out on social media. But I also think it's one of those, to me, when you ban a book, you're banning a book that is probably a book someone really needs to read. And I think that that's so fascinating to me, you know, because they say, you know, we read to know we're not alone. And that's like my favorite quote about reading, we read to know we're not alone. And so wherever you are in the world, it's a big world and there's so much we don't know, and so many people we will never meet and haven't met. And so when you can read about someone else's experiences in a book, it really does make the world seem smaller, more accessible to you, and to understand someone else's experience in the same world that you're living in, but nothing like your experience. So yeah, I and I I think Roar for Reading is is really, I think so many times we don't think about, you know, your world is complicated enough and everything that you have to do in your world and the people that you have to take care of. And so I think it's only when, like in this book, the little lion is like, wait, what? Like, could someone take away my favorite book or a book that I love? And I and that's what I'm hoping that kids for one second stop and think, like, oh, if this can happen to someone else, could it happen to me? Because it's only when we think about other people as, you know, other me's, like, you know, oh, if it's happening to me, it could happen to you. Like if we can all see someone else's point of view, then maybe possibly we can all be better people, that more tolerant, more kind, that we need to be, that is not really apparent in the world, especially in America right now.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

I couldn't agree with you more. So, where I am, book bans are not at all that common. Although, as you might know, South Africa has quite a dark pause steeped in censorship as well. You know, but today, even though books may not be being actively banned in our libraries, we will still feel those impacts. You know, book bands in the States and the UK will ultimately limit the yeah, it will limit the access to those books. That means that those stories don't reach the people they're meant for. And that translates, like you already said, fewer people seeing themselves centered in stories, fewer chances to grow our empathy, fewer stories that make the world a better, more diverse, more inclusive place. But you know, I there's always hope because as long as there are authors like yourself, readers like me, and primary caregivers raising readers, we will keep up that good fight, and there's always hope.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

I agree. I love that. There's always hope. And I agree with that. There is always hope because I do think the good outweighs the bad. You have to think that. Yes, the good things will outweigh the bad people. Yeah, you have to.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Otherwise, yeah, what's the point, right? This has been so amazing, and I'm so excited for everyone listening to discover this and all your other books. You've also recently, I say recently, but it's a relatively new middle grade novel that you've published, Growing Home, which is fast becoming one of those must-read children's books. So where to next from here for you and your writing journey?

SPEAKER_03 58:10

I'm the most the next thing that I'm most excited about is I have a novel in verse coming out, which is also like a big newish thing. And it's about how hard it is to be happy for someone else. Oh, yeah. And I feel like I to me that's that's a really other, you know, something I really wanted to explore. Um, because having a friend is hard, being a good friend is hard, being happy for someone else is hard. And so I like, you know, these are you know things that I think about. So yeah, my novel is is about, you know, 12-year-old girls and best friends, and then how one girl finds it hard to be happy for her, something good that happens to her friend. And I think it's really common, but we don't ever talk about it. I really feel like there aren't a lot of books about that for young readers. And I think it's really important to learn how to be happy for other people. It doesn't take away your experience, you know, it doesn't make your life any different if they have something good happen to them, but it in a way it does. That is so true.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

And you know, it's also to be able to read about it and then to also realize that we all have these feelings sometimes, you know, that sometimes we feel a little bit envious or we feel like a bit about someone else's success.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Yes, and that is so completely normal. And so it's like one of those things where I think if we talk about it and you own it, yeah, you don't, you can come home, feel bad, feel maybe like why did she get it and not me. Mine is more like, why did she get it, even though I don't want it, but I'm still jealous, you know? And so it's really it's hard to grow up. It's hard to, there's so many, you know, you're allowed to have unkind feelings, but then how you process and deal with it is really what the the goal is, is to understand that sure, have that feeling, accept it. No, we all do, we're all jealous at sometimes, we're all envious, but then how do you handle it? How do you show maturity and yeah, come home, cry, feel bad, and then be happy for your friend because ultimately she's your friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

I love that. I can't wait to read this book. I'll be I'll be keeping an eye and an ear out for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

Okay, you're so nice.

unknown 1:00:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Speth, thank you so much for sharing your time, your stories, and your world with us today.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

It's been such a treat. I feel the same way. What a treat, honestly. Your questions, everything, your even your tone of voice is so calming and nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

And so I enjoyed the whole experience. Thank you. I could just talk to you so much more, but I know that uh I know that we will have another chat in the future, perhaps when this new book comes out. I would love that. Thank you again. Thank you so much. Thank you. And that bookish friends was my beautiful conversation with the wonderful Beth Ferry. I'm still a little in awe that a book we discovered by chance sitting around our table in Dublin led to this conversation with the international best-selling author all the way in New Jersey. It's such a good reminder that stories travel, they cross oceans, they find homes they were never written in, and sometimes they even bring people from all over the world together. If you haven't yet discovered Beth's work, I hope this episode inspires you to seek out her stories. We are currently reading Growing Home, and saying that this is a must read is an understatement. This book is filled with heart. Actually, all of Beth's books are just filled with heart and wonder, and the kind of magic that lingers long after the last page is read. Thank you for being here, Bookish Friends, and don't forget to join us next time for more Bookish Wonder.