Building Your Inner Compass: Values, Awareness, and Community with Andrew Carruthers

If you’ve ever felt a tug in your gut that didn’t match the story in your head, this conversation will feel like a map and a mirror. We sit down with Andrew Carruthers to unpack what an “inner compass” really is, how to hear it beneath fear and habit, and why your body often tells the truth before your mind catches up. From early sparks in faith and Buddhism to a life coach’s core values work, Andrew traces how love, wisdom, harmony, and success became daily anchors—turning vague intuition into practical guidance.

We get specific about the mechanics of trust. Andrew shares how losing his voice revealed a protection pattern and how somatic signals—tightness, gravel, strain—became early warnings of misalignment. You’ll learn how to turn gym time or a walk into mindfulness, why even a 5% shift from autopilot to awareness changes relationships, and how to integrate head and heart without demonizing thought. We explore sovereignty under pressure from mentors and “shoulds,” using community as a mirror while maintaining discernment: take what rings true, release what doesn’t.

This is wayfinding, not rule-following. Andrew describes his evolution from Wayfinder to Wayfarer—choosing to walk beside clients rather than plot their path—so they can build a compass they actually trust. We talk presence, patience, and the long arc of calibration through trial, reflection, and small courageous choices. If you’re craving clarity without outsourcing your life, you’ll walk away with practices to listen to your body, align with your values, and make decisions you can stand behind.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it. Ready for real accountability and connection? Join the Evolve Men Brotherhood waitlist and step into a circle that sharpens your compass.

Andrew Carruthers - 

IG - https://www.instagram.com/andrew.carruthers/

Website - https://outofstep.life/

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Chapters

• 0:00 Brotherhood Waitlist Announcement
• 0:38 Introducing Andrew and the Inner Compass
• 1:02 What Is an Inner Compass
• 2:43 Early Hints: Faith, Buddhism, Meditation
• 4:51 Coaching, Core Values, and Defined Guidance
• 7:32 Distinguishing Fear from Inner Guidance
• 10:54 Somatics, Signals, and the Body’s Wisdom
• 14:46 Autopilot Patterns vs Conscious Choice
• 18:29 Mindfulness Beyond the Cushion
• 21:18 Head vs Heart and Building the Compass
• 25:14 Calibrating True North Over Time
• 28:20 Sovereignty, Mentors, and Doubt
• 32:12 Community as Mirror and Discernment
• 36:03 Presence, Fulfillment, and Energy Budget
• 39:08 Wayfarer Not Wayfinder: Walking With Clients
• 42:13 Learn by Walking: No Wasted Time
• 45:20 One Takeaway: Patience Builds Guidance
• 48:18 Where to Find Andrew
• 49:28 Brotherhood Registration Details & CTA

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:05

Men, before we dive in, I've got something big to share with you. The wait list for the Evolve Men Brotherhood is now open. This is the space where men stop doing the work alone. Inside the Brotherhood, you'll connect weekly with other men committed to growth, leadership, and living with purpose. You'll get access to live calls, courses, and the community that keeps you accountable when life gets hard. Registration opens soon. Join the wait list now at Evolve Men Project.com/slash Brotherhood and be a part of the movement. Today I'm joined by my friend Andrew Carruthers, and we're diving into something that's both deeply challenging, and that's trusting our inner compass. We're we're going to explore what that means, how it shows up in our lives, and what it looks like to actually follow it, even when it's not the easy road. So, Andrew, man, I'm excited to have you here. And I'd love to start by just asking you when you think about your inner compass, what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00: 1:11

Hmm. Well, that's a good question because it's pretty layered. To me, I guess on the simplest level, it's that it's internal director of like how I want to move within my life, who I want to be, how I want to show up, the decisions I want to make, but from a from a place of I guess what I might refer to as kind of like higher self or true self, versus being maybe misguided by parts of me that just want to seek pleasure or just get some type of need med or or potentially are just acting out of fear. I feel like following my inner compass, I would say that when I'm yeah, following the direction of more uh true self or higher self.

SPEAKER_01: 2:09

Yeah. Was there a time, like how did it come to be, right? When we talk about inner compass, I I feel like for myself, the for most of my life, I I I wasn't even aware that I was carrying around a compass. You know, I think a lot of people talk about, you know, and I don't know if that's a sense of morals or guidance or spirit or whatever it is, but was there was there a moment for you when you feel like you realized that that it was there and and that you couldn't ignore it anymore?

SPEAKER_00: 2:43

I think I got my first hint when um in um well I I guess actually if I if I even drill back a little bit further, um the first hint was probably when I joined like a Christian youth group way back in my like early teens. I think I was like 13 or 14 years old. And I think that was kind of the first time that I really um got a sense that there was something higher, I guess is is the term I would put to it. And while that youth group didn't really last and I ended up you know not following that path, the real part that I I can really draw back to is in high school, I started to really get into Buddhism. And it was because I had uh I had this really great teacher in a philosophy class that he had kind of introduced me to that concept. And my best friend Josh and I, we would go to Borders Bookstore and get like a huge coffee and get all of the Buddhist books off of the shelves and like just sit in the Borders bookstore coffee shop and read these Buddhist books. And then he and I started to dabble in meditation. We didn't really have a teacher or anything. We were just going based off of these things that we were seeing with in the books we were reading. But we started meditating. And I think that was the first time that I really truly connected to something where I was like, oh, okay, there's there's a uh me, and then there's like big picture me. Like there's not just one person here, there's kind of like multiple levels, and I think that's when I really started to come more clear that sometimes I was acting from what I now know is kind of more that subconscious self, or acting more from a conscious, higher conscious self. And so I think that was that was the first introduction to it or peak behind the curtain. But it was, I think it was really when I started to work with my first life coach, Lynn Christian. That that was really the first time that I was introduced to quote deeper work, you know, really recognizing the difference between the subconscious needs and our kind of parts that form based off of the experiences we have, the beliefs that are formed within the subconscious, and how strong they can really guide us, versus more consciously in deciding kind of some of the things that you pointed towards. Like one of the first things that Lynn took me through was my core values exercise. And I got to at that point, it was love, wisdom, harmony, and success were my four core values. And that was the first time that I had really been intro introduced to having something fairly defined that became more of an inner compass because part of that process was for me to each day sit with those core values and really look at okay, well, how would I behave today? What would I do today if I was truly living from these core values? And what just sometimes happens in my life that's out of alignment with these core values. So I think, yeah, the introduction, the the kind of inkling was there early in life, but it wasn't until that was I think 2003 or 2004 that I first hired Lynn. And I think that was when I it really started to click that, oh wow, like I do have something deeper within me that can guide me.

SPEAKER_01: 6:40

Yeah, definitely. You know, as as you were saying that I I was thinking about how, you know, at different times you were talking about the different parts of yourself, right? And there's there's all of these other things that, you know, fear or impulses or all of these other things that that I feel like almost kind of they're they're chattering in the background at any given time. You know, and I think before figuring out what that voice is, what that inner compass is, and and what you talked about, having established, you know, discovering and establishing really your your core values that that I feel like a lot of these different things, these voices and conversations are going on in the background. How do you feel like for yourself that how do you distinguish between some of those other things? Like what is something that's maybe fear or impulses, really just those kind of things versus your genuine inner guidance? Because I I know at least for myself that I feel like at times they could they could look really similar. You know, and it's how do you begin to differentiate for somebody that's starting kind of the journey of acknowledging that there are these different parts of ourselves and they're trying to establish what is their inner compass, how do you start to differentiate as to what that is?

SPEAKER_00: 8:17

Yeah. The the first step, I think, is developing some type of practice of greater awareness, because without the awareness, the none of it's going to become clear. If we if we don't have some way of looking inside and actually seeing the thoughts and seeing the feelings, and seeing perhaps where those thoughts and feelings even originated from and what effect they're having uh on the life that that we're living, there is no way to differentiate them because, like as a child, we we are very much kind of guided uh by in the teaching around us. So that can be experiences in life, that can be teachers, that can be our parents, that can be uh other friends. Like in that initial childhood stage, we're just taking in a ton of information, and all of that is subconscious. Like, well, not all of it, but 95% of it is subconscious. The subconscious is just picking up the teachings, it's picking up the experiences, and that's where most of our fears and our needs and our beliefs and everything are starting to develop. And it's not until later in life that we really do have the ability to then kind of sit back and have greater awareness of, oh, well, yeah, I do have this belief, or I do have this way of being, or this habit, or this pattern of action. But shit, man, where did that even come from? And is that serving me? And is that something I want to continue to do? But to get to that place, we have to start with some type of awareness practice. You know, people are probably sick of hearing about meditation, but there's a reason that meditation always comes up, and it's one of the most direct and simple ways to start to develop a relationship with those parts of ourselves. And that's I do think it takes time because that first step of just awareness. I don't know that it is really very easy to distinguish between maybe this, you know, subconscious part that broke off to protect itself from the big scary thing that it thought it would needed to protect itself, and then developed a habit or a pattern, an action that it would do to protect itself. I don't know at first that we're going to have the ability to distinguish that from maybe that like deeper inner truth at first, like the first time we sit down to you know have a meditation or something. But that first step of just awareness, I think, is the really essential part, because then we'll start to know notice more of the nuance. And that's really where the that distinction can be made then. For me, um, I think one of the things that it really helped me distinguish from subconscious just habits and patterns versus real conscious thoughtful action or thoughtful creation of you know what what I wanted things to be, I I really trace it back to when I really started to do more kind of like somatic and embodiment type of work. Because I think that, and we were kind of talking about this last night. If if we don't have a relationship to the rest of the body, if we're stuck up here just in the head, again, it's going to be really hard to distinguish from a supportive thought and pattern that we've consciously created created versus an unsupportive just habit or pattern that's just been there forever. And kind of to your point, it just sort of plays out in the background without us even noticing most of the time. It's just it's like a a tape recorder on repeat that's just tucked way back in that corner, and we're not even going to notice it because it's always been there. And so one of the one of the big uh things that helps me is I can tune into the sensation much quicker and easier than I can maybe that really hidden corner back here, that that belief system or that story is playing out. I can feel in my body that, oh man, I'm like really tight. I think I was telling you and Ahmed last night that like one of my things, I I had a really crazy experience back in 2019 where I'm almost completely lost my voice, like my ability to speak. My throat just completely was closing up on me. And after tons of doctors said, hey, look, there's there's nothing wrong with you, man. Like you're you're healthy, there's no reason for this to actually be happening. And finally, and what it came to be through lots of other kind of avenues of looking at this, I realized it it was actually a protective mechanism because in 2019 I was putting myself in in places within my business, especially that I wasn't feeling safe. I wasn't healing feeling heard, I wasn't feeling uh that I had a place. I was just basically using my voice in all the wrong places and being shut down really often. And so my body started to protect itself. It's like, all right, fuck it. Like, if if you're not gonna be heard, then we're just gonna stop talking.

SPEAKER_01: 13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:59

You're not gonna have a choice. And so that over the course of a couple years, it developed into a really strong habit and pattern that I still sometimes struggle with. But the great thing is uh it's it's a really strong signal to me now when I'm out of alignment with some of my personal truth. So if the little kid in me that wanted everyone to like him and you know, wanted to be heard, wanted to be seen, and never felt that he was, when he starts to show up again, and that's a pattern, and that's something that's in my subconscious, my throat starts to close up. And so now I don't really notice at first that I'm feeling insecure. I'm wondering, like, oh man, does Corey think what I'm saying right now? Stupid, you know. I don't notice that voice loud and clear because it's tucked way back in the background. It's been there for a really long time. But what I will notice is, man, I'm starting to get a little more like my voice is getting a little more gravelly, it's getting a little tighter. And so now I can go, that old pattern, that old habit's back. And so I notice the physical sensation and the physical response of it much faster than like the story itself showing up. So for me, getting a deeper connection to my body and to what happens within my body, that has been a huge piece too of really knowing am I operating from my inner compass or am I kind of stuck in subconscious patterns and habits.

SPEAKER_01: 15:45

Yeah. You know, as you were saying that, it makes me think that I know that I think people will say that every day that we make, you know, 60,000 decisions, or maybe it's 60,000 thoughts or something like that. But I think that it's less about actually making decisions and we're just replaying the same frameworks, right? That the brain's really efficient. And so it's not necessarily ever making any new decisions as it is just going back and referencing what it did the last time and then carrying that back out. So I think a lot of these things that we go through from day to day happen on autopilot, right? That we're we're not even thinking about why we made that decision or whatever. And to your point, right, going back to maybe whether it's childhood or society or social media or whatever it is, but to an extent that these decisions are being made outside of like our thought process. And so that's a really good point that you bring up that that that there's indicators along the way that that we're not even noticing. Right. And it sounds like for you, it's that your your throat closes up, but being able to like, and sometimes I I describe it as like split stream, to be able to like split that stream into different feeds, you know, and you've got maybe what's going on in your mind, and you've got what's going on to your body, and to be able to be, you know, logically maybe present in the moment, but to also feel yourself, you know, something physiologically, right, or physically starting to change in you, to cue you on to like, okay, I'm still running patterns up here, but there's this other thing that's going like my eye is twitching, you know, or whatever it is. Like, I know that there's something going on. And I think that's a really good point of people starting to slow down. And I think it does take that, you know. To your point, I think meditation at times can get this bad rap or this stigma of like, ah, you know, like woo-woo or whatever it is. But I think all too often we don't slow down to enough to acknowledge that these things are going on in our our bodies, let alone ask actually ask us, ask ourselves why we're making the decisions that we are. And for myself, you know, even just as of recently, I've noticed at times where and it started for me about a year ago. I have like in my my left eye, I would feel almost like a I I consider it or when I think about it as like a a focus of attention, if that makes sense. Right. So it's almost like it's not twitching, it's not itchy, it's not a thing like that, but it's like a it's like a strain. It's that when I'm focusing on something so intently, or you know, that could be stress, that could be whatever, that this part of my eye is like all of my focus is drawn to that area. And kind of similar to you, that's something for me now that's like, oh, okay, like there's something going on. I I need to probably let go of something in my body, right? And kind of going back to trusting my inner compass and what's kind of going on, that it's telling me that there's there's something right now that I need to to kind of tune into. So yeah. What do you go ahead?

SPEAKER_00: 19:24

Oh, I was just gonna say, I I think that you know that's part of building the relationship is being able to, again, like we have to get to a place that we can even notice that something so subtle, like you just shared, that oh, I get almost this like focus point in my left eye. Um you have to be pretty in tune with your body. And to your point that you know, people sometimes get a little whatever about meditation. Also remember, like, meditation doesn't necessarily have to be sitting on a on a pad with your legs crossed. You know, the people that I work with within my wayfaring clientele, um, a lot of them are leaders and they're busy people. Like they don't have time to go to the gym, then come home, do like a half-hour meditation, then prepare their meals, then do this, then get the kids up. Like, so there does have to be some multitasking that happens. And something that can can really help with this is to look at well, what can I turn into a practice of mindfulness? So if if someone already is going to the gym, there is a simple switch that can be made there to turn gym time actually into a mindfulness practice, into a meditation. And it's to not distract ourselves. So, you know, I know for me, like when I used to go to the gym a lot, the first thing I do is get out my phone and put on my favorite like YouTube videos on the treadmill and stuff. And I'm just I'm completely tuned out to my body at that point, except for maybe like the pain that's starting to burn in my you know, quads or something because I'm walking uphill. But other than that, I'm like tuned into a screen or I'm listening to my favorite songs. And let me be clear, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just suggesting if you're someone that wants to incorporate something like meditation into your practice, you're already gone to the gym, turn the gym into a meditative practice, which means really tuning the focus into the experience that you're having. And really the meditation is oh, I notice my mind is distracted, and I'm thinking about maybe what I'm gonna make for dinner or where I'm gonna go next week, or like what I'm worried about in the future. You just go, oh, okay, the mind's distracted. Back to the sensation of me lifting this weight and letting me actually feel fully into my whole body, not just like, okay, I'm doing bicep curls, so I'm just gonna focus on that bicep I'm trying to build up. Like actually feeling into the whole body and feel how as you lift that weight, it does something throughout the whole body. It's not because it's not just affecting your bicep. That is meditation. It's part of the process of building deeper awareness and also getting control of that kind of monkey mind that constantly wants to take us into the past, to replay things that happened in the past or take us into the future so that we can, you know, prepare ourselves for whatever's gonna happen next. It's just bringing us back into a moment and giving ourselves something to give the mind to focus on. So it doesn't, it doesn't have to look like what we think of as traditional meditation to just build uh awareness.

SPEAKER_01: 22:48

Yeah, yeah, definitely. What do you feel like, you know, I I I know that at least for myself, that there can be times to, you know, the point that you made about the monkey mind, and there's a lot of other things that are that are coming and going. And and for myself, as I've kind of been on this journey of of starting to trust myself more or to know where that part of myself is, that I feel at times that there can be a discrepancy between what kind of my head says, right? As we talked about kind of the logical sort of time part of it, and like what my heart is pulling me into, or maybe that that inner compass. What do you how do you differentiate for yourself between the head and the heart and things like that?

SPEAKER_00: 23:42

Well, probably sound like a broken record, but part of it is actually feeling into it. You know, I'm pretty tuned into my body at this point, so I can I can feel that oh man, my head is really like spinning. It's taking over, it's really directing the show versus something that's coming from more like my internal guidance system, which might be like deep in my belly space or like deep in my heart space. And even like I don't want to vilify the head, because the the head brain can be really a powerful and really supportive intelligence within our body. Again, it's it's about distinguishing okay, is this like you know, primitive monkey mind shit that's just like driving me crazy, or is this like really conscious thoughtfulness? You know, different belief systems believe that like even the seat of the soul can be in the head. You know, there's some belief systems that think that the spiritual center is the pituitary gland, something that's the third eye. In traditional Chinese medicine or qigong, they talk about shen being in the center of the head, which shen is like the spirit energy. So I don't want to you know make it seem like the head's necessarily this bad place that's always gonna trick us, but even that I can feel something very different when I'm from uh working from a very conscious elevated mind space versus just being stuck in like the thoughts and subconscious pieces. And I I think a a another piece of this too, Corey, is if if we want to be able to distinguish that, we have to start building the compass too. Because again, if if we've never sat down and consciously did practices like the core values practice or really looking at what's important to us in our life, what are the decisions we're making each day? Something as simple as like a journaling practice. If if we don't have something in place to actually take the awareness and look at it and say, well, is this even what I want? We're always just going to return into exactly what you said. The mind is really, really smart. It wants to keep us using the least amount of energy possible. And the least amount of energy is just to follow our old patterns and habits that have been built over years. Because it actually takes a ton more energy for the body to use the prefrontal cortex, which many believe is kind of like the source of that conscious thinking mind. It requires a ton more energy to operate that prefrontal cortex than it does the whole rest of the primitive portion of the brain. So the body wants to keep us in those patterns and habits. So if we haven't really taken the time to sit down and be like, okay, well, what do I want to guide me? Do I want to be guided by love? Do I want to be guided by truth? Do I want to be guided by courage? You know, like what do I actually want to be guided by? If we don't build the compass, I don't know that there's anything to really compare off of anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 27:07

Yeah, as you were saying that, I I had this picture in my mind of literally like, I don't know, almost like a pocket watch level complexity, right? That all of the different components that are going into it. And I don't think that it has to be that complex. You know, I mean, if you think if I really break it down, just having, you know, an enclosure, probably some sort of a looking passage, you know, window, a glass thing on the front of it, you know, I'm trying to not make it too complicated, and then a dial to kind of read off of, and then a magnetism that is pulling you in the direction of true north, right? Or what your truth kind of is. And and I think it is just that, that it's almost like going through a process of going around to different vendors and sourcing the materials to to build and to calibrate that compass over time. You know, and and speaking of that, of of like calibration with it, you know, I I think that it's something that you know, I don't know that it's as easy as like a true north sort of thing. That well, and and maybe it is as as I think about that, that there is actually a true north, but it's really about really differentiate it's like there's a bunch of different things in the area that are pulling the magnetism away from what true north is, and it's it's a bit of a process over time to really figure out you know, it's it's almost like there's no background on the compass. And you have to figure out for yourself where true north is. That it'll spin and it goes in different directions, but you have to decide that for yourself. So I'm I'm curious, kind of with that, you know, on your journey, like where where do you feel like you you know, where do you still struggle maybe to to trust it fully?

SPEAKER_00: 29:20

The the piece that I still struggle with sometimes is trusting my true north when uh especially someone I trust in the world that their true north is different. Because I think as as we develop ourselves, just again, like as we look back to childhood and we pretty much put our full trust as far as learning and growing into other people. Like we have to have other people to guide us, to teach us, to show us the way. And then as we start to age, we start to build a little bit more autonomy, we start to think for ourselves a bit more. Then I think as we get into our adulthood stage, that's where we really start to look for kind of air quotes truth. So perhaps we do start a spiritual practice. We start to maybe look for mentorship. We start to read different types of books that have more of a guidance to them versus just entertainment. We start to really look for, okay, well, like what's the right thing to do here? And you know, how do I want to live my life? And I feel like I'm now, you know, I'm gonna be 48 this year. And I've been I've had the nickname Old Man Carruthers since I was in my 20s, so I'm kind of an old 48-year-old at heart. But what I find now is most of the time I do feel like I've developed my personal sovereign sense of true north. And I follow it well for the most part. What rocks me at times is when I'm in the presence of other people that I have a lot of respect for. Or if I picture them to have potentially more wisdom or more experience in a certain area of life, that's where I start to doubt myself sometimes. Where I see you, oh man, that you know, this person's making this decision, and they're saying that this is the right way, and that I should believe this, and I should want these things, or I should picture things in a certain way.

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

It's a lot of shudd.

SPEAKER_00: 31:44

Exactly. It's a lot of shudd. Yeah, shoulding all over myself. And that is the place that sometimes I I still get a little off path. But I would say that's only been in the last maybe four or five years of my life that I can say that that's true. I think, especially up into even my early 40s, I still had a pretty shaky sense of like a very true devotion to my own true north. Because I think I was still developing, honestly. I've I've dabbled in so many things in my life, and I think a lot of it looking back was looking for someone else to tell me, here's your true north. You know, I tried so many different spiritual paths, hope, because I think I think in general, humans want truth. We want someone to be able to lay out in front of us and say, here's the truth, here's how you should think about things, how here's how you should see the world, here's how you should be behave. I think there's a part of us that wants that. And I did crave that. And I did, you know, put my foot in so many different ponds looking for that truth all through, like especially in my 20s and 30s. And it wasn't until I was kind of in my mid-40s that I was like, oh, what I was actually doing was visiting these different spaces. You know, it was, I was, it's like I was sitting in the church, and it was like, oh, you know what? I like this piece of this church. I'm gonna take that, I'm gonna put it in my bag. Okay, now I'm gonna go sit with some like indigenous medicine person. And oh man, this is awesome. Like, let me take this piece of that, and now that's gonna go into my bag. And I don't think I realized it during that time, but that's kind of that's what was happening to get me to a place now that I do feel like I have a very kind of sovereign, unique, true north that I've designed, like I've actually created it for myself. But it took a really long time. And again, back to your question, what can still rocket sometimes is if if I am in the presence of someone that I have the a great respect for or see them as having greater knowledge or greater wisdom about something, um, that can still take me off my off my course.

SPEAKER_01: 34:16

Yeah, man, so much of that really resonates with me. I I think you know, it's interesting that we didn't know each other at that time in our life, but I feel like I've followed a really similar journey in that up until even just recently that I I struggled to make decisions for myself, you know, and I I had just to a certain extent, like I didn't know what I wanted. I had never I had followed so much of everybody else's direction that that I had never really stopped to ask myself like what it is that I want and why it is that this is important to me. And and like you, I I went through and and it's looking back, I can see it in so many different how it showed up in so many different ways in my life over time. But to your point of of really getting out there and and looking at different ways of exploring that or making decisions or curiosity. But I found for myself at a lot of those times that that maybe it fit one aspect of it, you know. You I would go over there and be like, oh, okay, finally, like somebody's gonna make all of my decisions, and I can just like follow it and never have to think about it again, and then something would happen, and it wouldn't like, well, it doesn't fit in this case, you know, and then I'd go somewhere else and it'd be like, Well, yeah, you know, I mean, that's pretty close, but there's still these other things that it doesn't fit into. And you know, I it was finally that after going through that so many different times in so many places and appreciating the aspects, the wisdom that I did gain from that, but really like figuring it out in the end that I'm the only one that can make these decisions, right? And and especially taking into account like my own life and my own experiences and putting all of that together, that that it's everybody's carrying around their own compass, you know, whether they know it or not, that it's it's there, and and that it's I found for myself that it's pretty on point, but it is going to, you know, when you've got all of these other things, as you said, like you've got all of these other things that it's like holding it up and looking at it, and you're looking at everybody else, and you're like, man, you know, like imagine it like being out in the woods, right? And you you've got a compass and you've been out there all day, and you're like, no, I know that the mountain is over that direction, right? I can't see it through the trees right now, but I'm certain that that's where it is, right? But the reality is, like, probably nine and a half times out of ten, that's where it's at. Like, that's the direction to be going. But we'll walk around in circles over and over again, certain that it's somewhere else. As you know, as we're talking about that, I I keep thinking, you know, something that's really important to me and and even how we met is that that sense of community and and brotherhood, and to your point, right? Like a lot of these things can get picked up by other people. You know, we talked about like social media and society, and like, okay, there's that's that aspect of it, but there is this aspect of like, man, this this guy or this brother or this person that I hold in high regard, like what about that, you know, and and so I think that there is a role that community and brotherhood play in in strengthening that compass, right? And and and and maybe part of that process is not even so much of like showing us what that we're wrong in our ways, but in maybe a sense of of strengthening our trust and belief in that.

unknown: 38:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:18

What are your what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00: 38:21

I I fully agree. I I think that having especially community that we trust or leaders that we trust or mentors that we trust is super essential to developing that in our compass aspect because there is going to be very often things that we cannot see, patterns of behavior that we've been playing out our entire life that we are completely unconscious of. I kind of follow the multi-level of consciousness map of, you know, there's higher consciousness, there's consciousness, there's subconsciousness, which is a part of us that we can still kind of see if we look back there with the conscious mind. But then there's also like a really deep unconscious that even if we point our eyes directly towards it, it can be living in the shadows. And it's like, holy shit, I I had no idea that was there. And I've maybe done this my whole life. That's where I really think community that can act as a reflection is really essential. You know, we we had talked about this with our friend, and you know, because because one of the men that that we sit with, he was kind of like, Yeah, I want you guys to call me out of my shit, you know. And that is sometimes what is needed by people we trust. And, you know, for me, I've I told you guys I don't want to be called out of my shit. I want to be, you know, lovingly reflected to. But, you know, that's just that's more, you know, how we want it to be delivered. But the truth is, is we do need outside voices to be able to say, hey, you say this, you say you're this person, you say you want to be like this, or you want to act this way, and that's not what I'm experiencing from you. That's not what I'm seeing from you. That is a lot of times how we need to come to awareness of those things because they are so tucked in our unconscious that we just can't see them for ourselves. What I think is important with this kind of stuff, and I think this is really important even in like reading books or having a mentor, anything like that, is still hearing that feedback or hearing the instruction or hearing the guidance with discernment. And again, I think that that comes back to over time developing that ability to feel into something in a way that it's like, huh, okay, that does make a lot of sense. But honestly, there's something inside me that's like, that's not for me. I see that you see it that way. I hear a very convincing argument for that point, but it that just doesn't feel like it's for me. And that's discernment. It's being able to recognize, like, yeah, cool, that sounds great, but I don't need to take it on. Or the opposite side, which is like, ooh, man, Corey just you just reflected something back to me that it actually kind of hurt, like it stung. It kind of tapped into something that is pretty sensitive there. And not just immediately wanting to reject it because it's uncomfortable. That's another big piece to discernment. It's being able to sit with it long enough to go, hmm. Is this my self-protection that's coming up? I don't want to hear it because it maybe suggests that I'm something other than what I think I that I am. Or do I feel a little guilt or shame that I have shown that, shown up that way in my life? And we that's part of discernment is also being able to recognize, like, oh man, yeah, there is some, I do feel some truth to this, but it's really uncomfortable to be with us right now. So yeah, I think it's super essential that we have that sense of community. It's essential to have great mentors, it's essential to have great teachers. And I think for me at least, a big part of that is being able to receive pretty much all of that input that comes in, but then also be able to sort through it with discernment and really take in, yep, this is part of my inner compass, that's part of their inner compass, and knowing the difference.

SPEAKER_01: 42:59

Yeah. So interesting. So many, so many juicy tidbits in there to to pull on. It it kind of brings up the the question for me of like, man, what what would the world look like if more of us were trusting that inner accomplice? Right? You know, I imagine this like I don't know, that it's full of wholesome and connection and honesty, and I don't know, it's uh it's a really interesting thought.

SPEAKER_00: 43:37

It's it's a very utopian thought. I don't know. I I think the part of part of my personal mission is is to help people to step further into consciousness, like to really have more time throughout their day that they're they're living in a state of some level of consciousness. Because depending on what you look at, you know, as far as even neuroscience data, they say that like 95% or more of most human beings' day is really just living out subconscious habit and pattern. And that to me just seems like, damn, that's a lot of time to just be living from habits and patterns. But again, there's a reason for it, and it's because if we tried to stay conscious, you know, through 100% of our day, we would probably be fucking exhausted because it does take a lot of energy to stay in that conscious state. So to me now it's like, can we shift it from 95 to even like 90? Could we get to that place where it's like more often that conscious place is shifting into gear and saying, okay, before I react to what my partner just said to me, can I take two breaths and really come back to this conversation from a conscious place where I'm choosing my words, not just reacting with my words. And to be honest with you, like I can picture a world where if even that happened, where it was like a five percent shift, I think that would have that that in and of itself would have tremendous difference, especially in how we interact with each other, which would shape everything.

SPEAKER_01: 45:35

Yeah. Yeah, that that utopian sort of thing really stands out, right? Like, is this just as crazy making? Like, are we on drugs? Right, like but I I do like I I think so much of it as I think about myself and presence uh especially, you know, and I think of like getting to the end of my life and looking back, you know, something that for me as I was going through my my divorce and afterwards, like something I acknowledged or I noticed along that journey was that I that I wasn't very present in a lot of things, right? That I was sure I was like checking the boxes and I was doing the things and and whatnot, but I was never stopping to like smell the roses. And and I think, you know, kind of like tying all of this back together, I think that recognizing that there was an inner compass that that was putting out things all along the way, right? That it was there, but I just I didn't even know that it was that I was carrying it around that and that entire time. And it just yeah, as I think about like wanting to live a life worth living, right? Or or living it passionately, like, yeah, I could see how it would be exhausting to go from 95 to 90 percent, right? Because we're so used to not actually spending the cycles and being inside of that moment, but but similarly, like how much more fulfilling each day and that life would be if we were we were actually there and present for it. So it's a really interesting thought. Well, one of the things I find really, you know, about this topic and and is you as well, is that you call yourself a a wayfinder, and and I see a lot of similarities in there between an internal compass and kind of wayfinding. Do you do you want to speak to that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00: 47:45

Yeah, because that's that's a big part of what before I before I had my current version of my company and I called myself the journeyist because kind of the same same idea behind what I now refer myself to is well, I actually changed it just recently to Wayfarer instead of Wayfinder. Because of yeah, just a little nuance there, because I don't necessarily want to find the way for my clients. I will I want to help walk the way with them, which Wayfarer kind of felt more in alignment with that for some reason. I just digested that because that is truly what I'm I'm here to do is to support this other person in developing that inner compass so that they can guide themselves. Because again, I I will step into like teacher, mentor, guide, and especially depending on what specifically we're working on. But most of the time I'm really trying to stay in that true space of I'm just walking next to you. And I'm I'm occasionally going to ask you the questions that need to be asked and reflect things back to you that you need to see or hear, so that you can tell me then where do you want to take your next step and why do you want to take that next step? Where is that coming from within you? That that step is where you want to go. That's that development of the inner compass. So yeah, it very much all fits this. I really I I love to hike, like I love to walk in the woods. It's one of my absolute favorite things to do. And that's what I picture. I either picture that or being in the ocean, like captain of a ship or something. Those are the two things that I use a lot for my own personal metaphors. And so it is that aspect of just walking with people so that they can develop their system, they can develop their maps, they can develop their compass, and it fits for their specific needs. Because again, what I think is right or what the things that I have developed in my life, my belief systems, they might not be the right belief systems for them. I mean to offer them up to people, like if they're stuck in a place and they don't know where to go, I might offer to them, like, hey, I'm gonna share with you something I personally believe, and you don't have to believe this, but I think it might be helpful as something to consider in this particular situation. But in the end, I only want them to adopt that belief as their own, if it resonates, if it's true for them.

unknown: 50:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:32

And I, you know, another part of this whole kind of thought process of the journey and and finding our way, the only way that we can do it is to just start walking. You know, again, kind of coming back to where I can look back at my past and my history. You know, we hear this all the time. Like, well, if you're not messing up, you're you know, you can't really learn. And we hear something in that that vein. And it's really true, though. It's like the only way that I'm going to know if my compass is in true north is to walk south sometimes and fall off a fucking cliff and go, oh, yeah, I probably shouldn't do that anymore. That really sucked. And that helps to tune the compass back in. It goes, oh, okay, I thought that was true north. That definitely wasn't true north for me because I experienced it. I know I have to go a different direction now to find true north. And I think that that's often the way that we have to do it is we have to just start wandering and putting our foot on different paths and be willing to make the mistake or choose the wrong path at times. Or, you know, I think we're so afraid to like quote waste time. And it's like, look, man, if if you're on the path and you're you're looking for the way and and you're on your journey, there's no wasted time. That that was probably what had to happen to lead you there. I mean, you talk about that all the time with your experience with your divorce and all of that. Is you know, you I know that you look back at it and you recognize that so much of that was something that you had to go through so that you could find your true north, which is really hard, man. Like that's that's rough to think about something as as hard and heavy as a divorce and you know division of a family as maybe what is needed to find our way, but at times it is.

SPEAKER_01: 52:39

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I agree with so much of that. Well, hey man, as we start to wrap up, I I want to really just kind of take a moment and and see if there is one piece of wisdom that that you would want the the men listening to take away with them, right? About trusting their own inner compass. And and if you have that, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00: 53:08

The thing that jumps out right this moment as you as you ask that question is is honestly patience based on exactly what we just said is developing this sense of inner compass. There's no way to do it except for time. There's no way to do it except for uh experiencing life every day, and hopefully doing it in a somewhat conscious way that we have that ability to reflect on. Okay, I did this, I said this, I behaved in this way, I acted out this urge that I had. What happened? How did that feel? What did that do for me, or where did that take me in my life? And is that what I want to continue to keep doing? It takes a long time to get to a place that we have a strong sense of inner guidance, and it takes a lot of patience. So I think that's that's really what I would want people to hear. Especially reflecting back on my own journey. There was a hell of a lot of times where I wanted the answer now. I just wanted it to be fixed now. I wanted the experience to change now. I wanted clarity right now. And looking back, it's like I couldn't have had it. There was nothing I could have done. There's no deep meditation I could have done. There's no contemplation practice that I could have done to give me the answer versus just going through it, getting to the other side, taking the time to reflect on it, learn from it, grow from it, and testing something else. So patience, friends.

SPEAKER_01: 54:48

Patience. You know, as you're saying that, I I go back to the saying of uh it's about the journey, not the destination. You know, and it's it's things like that that growing up never make sense in the moment. Right? Like, what the what the hell does that even mean? You know, but until you've until you've gone through enough of those experiences to really appreciate that, yeah, it's not about it's not about getting there. Right. It's it's really about the journey along the way. That somebody can't just grab your compass, right? And be like, oh hey, let me tune that up for you. You know, no, man, like it's it's it takes your own journey. Your your compass is attuned or connected to only you, and you're the only one that can tune it. And that that takes time, takes wisdom. So well, hey man, this conversation has been awesome. I really appreciate it. I I always love connecting with you. How can the the guys that are listening that maybe want to connect with you or or follow you or just learn more about your work and what you do, how can they connect with you?

SPEAKER_00: 56:04

Probably the easiest place that I think most people are connecting Instagram. It's the place that I'm most active. And direct messaging through Instagram is a really easy way to connect with me. You can also go to my website. It's not a really elaborate website, it's pretty much just a splash page with a little bit of information at this point. But it's uh my company is called out of step. And you can go to the website is outofstep.life. And there is some information on there. Um and it does have a way for you to connect with me there too. So Instagram or the website, those would be two best resources.

SPEAKER_01: 56:42

Awesome. Great. All right, man. Well, we'll uh we'll catch up soon. Thanks. Thanks again for joining the show. Hey, before you go, this podcast is just the surface. The real work happens inside the Evolve Men Brotherhood. This is our private community of men committed to leading themselves boldly, building confidence, and sharpening one another in the fire. Registration officially opens December 1st, and we kick off our Brotherhood calls together beginning in January 2026. But you can get on the list today and be the first to claim your spot. If you're tired of going to life alone and you're ready for true accountability, support, and connection with men who get it, head to Evolvmen Project.comslash brotherhood. Don't just listen, step into the Brotherhood. I'll see you inside.