3 Michelin Stars And You Like Taco Bell?

A chef who earned three Michelin stars rides shotgun and tells us what the kitchen really costs. From LA’s chef-driven rooms to Georgetown’s corporate engines, we talk about the shock of rigid menus, 365-day schedules, and why predictable service can drain creative fire. 

It’s a candid, street-level look at how a master builds a career, pays dues, and decides when prestige stops paying the bills. Hit play for a ride through craft, commerce, and taste—from three-star plating to Taco Bell cravings. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to another episode of Rideshare Road Talk, Conversations in Motion. A podcast where we create unfiltered talkspace that examines the meaningful lives of my passengers while engaging in personal and topical discussions. I'm your host and driver, John Fodis, and we're cruising the streets of Washington, D.C. Buckle up. Let's drive.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

I I was born and raised in LA, and then I worked for Nancy Silverton who owns Ostery Motza. Here we're Georgetown.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Oh, so there's one in LA.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Yeah, the original one's there. Okay. And that one's like a completely different kind of gig. It's much smaller and like kind of like operates like a family restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Okay. And so you got pipelined into DC from from there?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

From there, yeah. And then I worked at this place called Providence.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Which is like a super fine dining. We did like 50 covers a night.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Alright, so you you're not a fucking line cook, dude. You're like, you're in it. You're like you're you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah, I have not line cooked in a while, but maybe I'm gonna go back to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Well, tell me about that. I mean, if you don't if you don't want to mention the place by name, well we already have, but I can cut it out. But tell me um your experience here in Georgetown and then what your thoughts are on that and what's going on now.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

I feel like DC restaurant scene is so uh like corporate and I'm still not used to working in like corporate gigs. So it's just kind of like a a culture shock and was not meant for me, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Well, it kind of does. I mean, I'm a lay person, but you know, I understand business models. Like, so are you suggesting like there's some uh restaurant groups or or organizations that are just a little bit tighter knit and less of a factory kind of a thing? Yeah. Where you get the flex a little bit more as opposed to being in a box, right? Okay. How did you get into that world, by the way?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Uh my cousin, I like dropped out of high school and then he was the chef and I washed dishes and then jumped on the line one day.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

I find that fascinating, right? Like everyone watches that show The Bear, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Is that accurate, by the way? I don't know. I'm assuming you've seen it.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

I've seen parts of it. I think like a lot of the front house stuff is pretty accurate. Okay. But there's not a lot of restaurants that operate like that. Yeah. I mean, there it's clearly like small, like they're pushing. For most places, I think, are not having that much freedom.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um because again, as a lay person, I mean, I know that industry is a meat grinder. Yeah. You know, it's it's nights, it's weekends, it's holidays, it's when everyone else is out having a great time. You guys are there slinging it, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Oh yeah, that that was part of what like put me to the edge. Over here was like, they're like, yeah, we're open 365 days a year. I was like, yeah, I don't know if I can.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

So I have not been to the place in Georgetown. Um I know it it looks beautiful when I hear great things, and that's probably a reflection on you, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Uh yeah. And your friend. It's a ginormous team.

Climbing The Line And Paying Dues

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yeah. Um, what do you love about that place and and what made you take off again?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

I mean, we talked about it a little bit, but I thought I would feel comfortable with like the amount of like every single day you go into work, you know exactly what you're doing. Because like we didn't change the menu very often. It was just it was a machine.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

It isn't a heavy tourist area, right? Yeah. There's no there's no reason or need to mix it up that much. Yeah, it's like an inbound marketing funnel. Your audience is coming to you, you don't have to present things to draw people in, right? Um that's cool, man. Alright, so what about your buddy? Yeah, your boy just said you're the best cook in in the DMP. Nah, nah. Actually, nothing. I mean, don't be don't be fucking modest, dude. I mean, if you're slinging it, you're slinging it. That's fucking great, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

It's also Victor's 22nd birthday. Oh my god, dude. Baby Victor.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah. There's a name for your first solo restaurant. Baby Victor. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Although Victor today was talking that he wants to become a server for more money, so god.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Does it really come to that? Is that really the seesaw of the industry where you can make more as a server than you can?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Oh yeah. Oh man. I think they a server probably triples my salary.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Well, you know, I'm assuming it still happens in New York. We have these like old school career guys that have worked at all these wonderful old establishments, and they're making six figures easy, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Um, just on ticket alone, if you're going off 15-20% flat or whatever. Oh, yeah. Um, that's that's serious money.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah, servers in New York make disgusting cash.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah. I'm always fascinated, not by like the literal things on what you're doing, but the curiosity and the drive to want to learn something.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah.

Schedules, Burnout, And Static Menus

SPEAKER_00 5:24

The eagerness to want to elevate yourself and your life and to kind of embrace something like that, I think is really cool. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm just a random stranger, but I think that's fantastic. Um, in my business, I'm I'm in the film and video business, and I have people that are assistants and production assistants and camera assistants all the time. Yeah. Right? And there are some guys like you who are hungry and they want to learn, and they set aside their ego and they ask. No one's giving you shit in this world. Yeah. You have to ask, you have to want it, right? Timing is important, right? Yeah, I you don't want me coming into your place at 6 30 going, hey, teach me this. We got shit to do.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

But I think that's cool. Is there an it factor in that in your in that culinary world? Like in my world, there is. In other words, you could go to film school and you could have a kid that never went to school in his life, but he just has a natural eye for composition. Uh, I'm taking that kid over the guy with the degree 24-7 because he might not have it.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Because you can't teach it. Does that exist in your world? Yeah, for sure. Like, I would I don't know. Kids from culinary school are the worst. Well, drill into that. Why? Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_01 6:45

I think if you go to school to learn a skill that you're not actually like practicing and working in like an actual work environment, you feel very entitled. And when you jump into a job and then all of a sudden it's like, okay, you're gonna peel carrots for six hours. It's pretty like demeaning, but it takes like somebody that's just down to work to actually do it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

You have to pay your dues.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

There's no shortcuts, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah. It's like at this old job I worked at, we would get kids out of culinary school that would apply for like CDC positions or something.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

And it's just like you gotta work twelve years in a kitchen to like get there, brother.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

What what's CDC? What what is that about?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

That's like chef de cuisine. It's like you're under the executive chef. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

And when you achieve that, that's like legit, like that's the shit.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah, but it's like it's like obviously on such a tiny scale, but it's like if you were fresh out of college and apply to be like the CEO, I mean, of a company or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Or like in broadcasting, you're out of college, you're like, well, I want to be the I want to be an anchor. Like, well, why don't you be a reporter first?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah, although the funny thing with is that there's not really like any money in it. So like it's kind of all just about working for your whatever your goal is, rather than like, oh, I'm trying to make, you know, 500 grand, 150 grand, even just crazy to make in in a kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

You gotta love what you do, it seems like.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

There has to be a passion there.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yeah. And I think the biggest struggle is staying, like, sometimes, like right now, I'm unemployed, and I'm like, man, I should have just studied hard.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

No, reframe that. You're just taking a break. Yeah. You're just taking you're just you're regrouping.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah. So I was like, man, I should have should have studied harder. I have so many friends that work from home doing like tech jobs. Which, you know, I I would probably lose my mind. But imagine I get word from home.

Pay Gaps: Servers Versus Cooks

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Well, you know, with my business, I I've been doing it so long where I give away the front end now so I can be at home more. Where I'm just doing admin and I'll do some editing at home, and um, I'll show up on a shoot and I'll kind of produce and push things around, but I'm not doing like the groundwork. I'm not I'm not shredding carrots anymore. Yeah. Just not. Um tell me about this whole Michelin thing. You said previously you were at a place where it had a three Michelin star restaurant? Yeah, we got our third star.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

My God. What was it? Yeah, 2025, so right before I moved here.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

And, you know, outside of the obvious you're here, but does does that and that stays with you? I mean, that's good that can open up so many doors for you when you decide to punch out of the bag you're in right now, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah. I I mean I'm I'm not like I don't think I'd struggle to ever find a job just because so many restaurants are always looking for employees, but take the stud with you, apparently. Yeah, I'm trying to get him to move to Los Angeles.

unknown 10:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Bro, just go, man. Opportunity knocks, dude. He has a wife and a baby, so well, that's challenging, but you know. That's challenging, but you know what? Hey, man. That that that's life, my friend.

unknown 10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Sliding doors. You take opportunities, otherwise you second guess it the rest of your life. You know? Exactly. Who knows? You can always move back. Yeah. Or go out for six months and send the money back. I don't know. Life's too short not to have an adventure. I've learned that. Are you from the D? Yeah, yeah. I uh I was born here in DC and then grew up like in Rockville area, up that way. Oh, nice. But I've been here my whole life, with the exception of college. Um kind of seen it evolve. And the restaurant scene's gotten better. Like DC isn't known for anything. Other than maybe like, you know, the international kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah, I think like Ethiopian food here is best like that. I will say, coming from Los Angeles, like eating Mexican food in DC is like hard for me.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Well, right. Right? Um, like again, it's not like you know, Baltimore's known for a crab cake. Uh LA is known for, you know, street tacos and you know, food truck culture, right? Um but DC's it's getting better. There are places that are that are pretty good. Yeah. In my opinion, being a regular schmell or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Yeah, I think something that would be good for DC is like single ownership restaurants. Because so like I think probably like 75% of restaurants in DC are just like mass groups that own so many other things.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Uh Balos, the folks that own Balos seems to fit that bill.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah.

Craft, Curiosity, And The It Factor

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Which I was just there. I've been there a few times, and I the last time I was there, I didn't really appreciate the experience. Um maybe you'll you'll find this funny. Maybe you won't. Um the the price point was just outrageous. It's Greek food. I'm Greek. I get it. It's a great atmosphere. It's just a little too steep for what it is. Fine. Um service was a little slow. It was half empty. Fine, big deal. Um towards the end of the night, I got the typical 4% operation fee tucked into the bottom of the bill.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

I've never heard of that. That is strange. 4% operation fee?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yes, it's very common. How does that even go to? It's very common. Um, and so I typically will ask the server to remove it from the bill. And this guy kind of balked and looked confused, and I said, Look, if you're and first of all, let me preface this. I I was like a Karen before that was even a thing. And it's only from the perspective if I'm dropping three, four, five hundred bucks on dinner, it better be lights out. And if it's not, I need to let you know because there's an expectation. Fair? Yeah. Um, politely, of course. Um, so I said, Look, man, if you can't accommodate or help us, just please bring someone over that can. Because I'll just discuss it with them.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

And so floor person comes over or whatever. And he goes, is there a problem? I said, well, just the operational fee. It's not a lot of money, but it's the principle of it. Um, I'd like you to remove it. Yeah. He goes, Well, that's that's to help finance the the the restaurant. I'm like, well, that's not my job.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

That is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

My my my obligation is to frequent the establishment, to buy the food, and to tip the staff accordingly.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Yeah. It's like adding like a like a produce fee on top of the food you just are.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Uh, but again, I was being pretty neutral and I kind of made a tongue-in-cheek comment, and I was like, otherwise, um, if I am financing the company, I should be entitled to uh quarterly dividends and a profit share, correct?

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

No other business, any other business would operate that way if I'm investing in it.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

And he was like, I'll take care of that for you, sir. I've never even Oh, it's bananas, dude. That's crazy. There's some places that are charging 3% for the privilege of using a credit card for your meal. And I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

It's not yeah, that's insane.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

That used to be like the old three-card Monty that like, you know, your contractor guys would pull.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Where if you wanna, if you're replacing like the drywall in your house and they're like, well, it's three percent more to use your credit card. I'm like, no, that's a business expense that you're gonna write off, and it's a double dip. So discount it by three percent and take my card. Right?

SPEAKER_01 15:04

I actually feel that way about like auto gratuity sometimes. Like have you ever just had like the worst server and then it's like auto 20% tip?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Exactly. And then you look like a douchebag when you go, wait, what how do I enter a lower amount? Yeah. Certainly not done by accident. Yeah. What's your uh what's like your specialty? Like when you were in that whole three-star Michelin world and you're coming up and doing your thing, what was your go-to trunk slam? I'm really good at this dish.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

I don't know. We we change it so often that there wasn't really like a.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

I mean, you personally, like on a personal level though.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Personally, yeah. I grew up like Irish Catholic, big family, so I like meat and potatoes food. That's like if I was gonna open my own spot tomorrow, it would just be like country brays. Actually, I just got back from Baltimore. Okay. And ate at this restaurant called the Ren.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

I think I've heard of that.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah, if like if I was gonna open a restaurant, it would almost be like copy and paste.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Same type of fare?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah, they don't take reservations, it's they have a seven-seater bar and then a thiferson dining room. Okay, I like that. So you just have to wait in line at five o'clock. That's cool. And it's like they had like poached chicken with poached carrots and like purple owned peas.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

How do you get a star doing that stuff?

SPEAKER_01 16:38

I don't know. I think that kind of food is like kind of sexy right now. People love feeling like they're eating at home. Okay. Because nobody cooks at home anymore. I mean, that's not true. A lot of people do, but not in the same way. Or at least my idea of like watching my grandma.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Are you like the worst person to go have a meal with because of what you do?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah, I'm pretty awful.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Like, I'm the worst person to go see a movie with. Because I'm just like, that's wrong. That's bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Yeah, I'll like judge people like if they order certain things, I'm like, that's just such a money grab. Like anytime there's like wago on a menu or something, I'm like, don't even touch it.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Okay. I'm I'm I'm that guy. I mean, I'm not doing it all the time, uh, but you know, I see A5 and I'm like, who the fuck's paying$2.95 an ounce for that or whatever the hell it is? Like, is that just like hype gimmick bullshit? I mean, it is good.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

I guess, yeah. I think I've just like worked around it so much that I don't want to eat it. Okay. And also, like, I know what it costs per pound and what I'm paying.

Michelin Stars And Mobility

SPEAKER_00 17:45

It's just like you know, before that whole craze took off here, this was probably like maybe 15 years ago in Bethesda, and it was a sushi place, and they had some type of like Kobe or Wagyu or whatever it was, and it was only like four ounces. It was I could barely finish it. It made it almost made me sick, it was so rich. Um, so maybe that was like the legit real deal, and what they have now is just like imposter imposter beef that's not even Japanese, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, well now like all those Wagyu farms that are, I mean, there's like American Wagyu, Australian Wagyu. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, the Australian Wagyu is probably my favorite, but it's like, have you ever heard of Jadori chicken?

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Uh, that's the raw chicken, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Uh that's like the chicken, yeah, it's like the Japanese breed of chickens that you can eat raw on.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

I think Bourdain did that on one of his shows.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yeah, I I don't know if I would be like I'm pretty risky eater. Raw chicken, for example.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah. Uh I am in lust with Japanese culture.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

No, me too.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

And not like the stupid American samurai sword bullshit. Like, I mean like the people, the the blend of of old and new and harmony and the food scene, and you know, the women are obviously stunning, but I I need to go there, man, and just eat for like three weeks.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Um, have you been?

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Uh I went for work for like two days once.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

It was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Everything you expected?

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah, I have some friends that live in Tokyo. Good friends. And they like are always saying, like, you would never move back to the US.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Um, if they need more friends, please let me know. I just need any excuse to go.

unknown 19:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Um, I'm really thinking about going in the spring. Um so much so that I'm starting to research, like, I guess there's like uh Japanese students who are trying to learn and practice their English.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Oh, yeah, that's a that's a big thing if you go teach English and touch any of Asia.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

And so like you basically just pay them uh maybe a flat fee to show you around and you're paying for their meals, and they get to practice English, but they're also showing you around. That's neat. Uh from from that local perspective.

unknown 20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Um like that would be cool. Like, I would have to do that. Because I don't want to be the asshole on the phone translating it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah, Asia is like a different breed. I feel like you can travel there and not speak whatever the local language is, but definitely is a little more difficult if you hit like outside parts of like major tourist destinations.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

I've heard good things about China. Like, I would love to travel China. I have a friend that's there right now, and he's like, it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, you know, if we're playing that game, I don't know if I'd have China high on my list. I think like Japan, uh, Vietnam, I think would be there. I hear that's just an incredibly beautiful country.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah, Vietnam is great.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

And a really cool food scene from what I heard. Maybe it's the the French influence, obviously. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Um Vietnamese Vietnamese food is the best probably my favorite of Asia.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Yeah, I always like the their use of aromatics in their food.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Even like their broths, like obviously like fur their most popular food.

DC’s Scene And Single Ownership

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Alright, I'm fucking hungry as shit now. Thanks. Thanks, thanks for that. Be going to the what's that jumbo slice place on Connecticut?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Uh 90 second pizza, Andes?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

No, I've been to Andes by 930 Club. It's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Is Andy's good? I understand.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Um for a non-wood-fired oven, they actually put a decent crisp on the crust.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

I'm trying to think it's not Mover's, is it? Mover's pizza?

SPEAKER_00 22:01

No. It's right across from 9 30 Club. Um, but the one I'm talking about is uh it's called Pizza Tatiana. Huh.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

It's uh it's just more obscene than it is like great. It's like, you know, this big. Yeah. Seven bucks, and they're up until four o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

You know what else is good? That's down on like M Street for like late food. Have you ever had George's?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

No.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

It's like a falafel place, like like Schwarman.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Oh, is that the place that's kind of catty cornered from the four seasons down there? The bottom of the street? Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

But they have a Philly cheesesteak that is like if I had too much to drink and it's two in the morning, that's what I'm eating. That happens way too often. But it's so good. I remember when I first moved to DC, I was like struggling because I didn't like any of the food I was eating. And then I ordered that, and I went to work the next day, and I told everyone. And everyone was like, Yeah, everybody knows about it.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

This is the shit. Okay, I'll have to store that away somewhere next time I break out of jail. Yeah. Don't get old, kids. That's it. Don't get old. Just telling you. That's gotta be funny, man. Like, someone like you with your experience, and you go into sit down at a relatively nice restaurant, and you have some dude who clearly doesn't know what he's doing, but he's trying to flex a little bit. You've got to just sit there and just kind of laugh and be like, dude, you're just a fucking tool. Like, stop.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

I mean, I'm not saying you'd call him out, but no, I but I do, I my my favorite food is probably the shittiest food.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Well, that's fair. Street food. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Or even like I love Taco Bell.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Oh god. Thanks for crashing the conversation into the rocks. But we're almost over, so that's a fitting way to stop it. Yeah, I guess it's because I work such late hours where it's just like three-star Michelin dude throws down Taco Bell. Oh yeah. How dare you. Pizza Hut, all of it. Oh my god, that's great. He's laughing. Thank you for listening to this episode of Rodchair Road Talk. If you've enjoyed what you've heard, we'd love for you to review the podcast on your favorite listening platform like Apple or Spotify. Your support helps us so much, and don't forget to reach out on Instagram with your feedback or topic suggestions. Until next time, let's try.