FIRE IN HER EYES PODCAST
A podcast about women who persevered! Stories and conversations with and about resilient women.
FIRE IN HER EYES PODCAST
Belonging and Identity: A Deep Dive
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In this episode, Dr. Laura Guilliam discusses the complexities of identity, belonging, and personal growth. We explore how identity shifts and disruptions impact our lives and the importance of co-creation in relationships. The conversation highlights the role of gratitude in grounding oneself and offers insights into managing identity changes with resilience.
Hello, and welcome to Fire in Her Eyes. This is a podcast about women who persevered through pain to find peace and purpose. So if you're looking for a little inspiration and motivation to sustain you through difficult times, join us as we share stories of women who were empowered through pain and transformed struggles into sweet success. I'm your host, Tanya Skaronsky. Hello, hello, friends. Thank you for joining me again today. I am a firm believer that when people walk into your life at a specific point in time, it's no coincidence. There's a purpose behind them entering your life. That is definitely the case with Dr. Laura Gilliam, a very dear friend of mine and a PhD in organization development and values-driven leadership. I had the great pleasure of meeting her in about 2016 or so, during a very difficult time in my life. I was really struggling with my identity. I had made a very difficult decision to wipe the slate clean, to begin a new life, and map out this life for myself and my children based on my values, my belief system, trying to figure out who I am at the core, not who my culture expects me to be, my family wants me to be, what society asks of me, but who am I at the very core? And it's really difficult to navigate through that. It's challenging because, you know, I was guilt ridden, I didn't want to disappoint people. And how do I navigate my own identity? Well, I'm trying to guide my three children through their childhood, through their challenges, and making sure that my own experiences don't have a negative impact on them. And in walks in the beautiful and brilliant Laura Gilliam. And ever since then, she has enriched my life in incredible ways through her wisdom, through her insight, through her goodness, through her empathy, and through her incredible capacity to read people and situations. So I felt compelled to ask her to join me today. And I'm so honored to have her here. Laura, thank you for joining me.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my goodness, what a what an introduction. You are just a wonderful, wonderful friend. Yes, thank you. It's an honor to be here. I'm so proud of you doing this arena and this platform for discussion.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. I meant every word I said. Um, Laura, so I would love to talk a little bit. Um, and if you can share with us your expertise, your perspective, your knowledge about identity, the stability of our identity, the disruptions, how that happens, how do we unfold through life? How do stressors in our lives or various events in our lives shape us? And when we lose our way, how do we find our way back? And what role do family and friends in our environment play in shaping our identity?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, even listening to you talk about your overarching identity and this wonderful woman who has traveled this journey from sweet baby Tanya to teen Tanya to young adult to mature influencing, loving Tanya is a really exciting aspect to cover. There's so many things we could discuss with identity. And a lot of what I focus on right now came as a result of studying the human need to belong. So, in all this disruption, everything that's happened over the course of our lives and throughout, you know, societal influences, family influences really started bringing the interest and the curiosity about how do people determine where they belong and what is this human need to belong? But what really interested me about it was how identity played a role in where we determine we belong and how long we belong there and when we belong somewhere else. And so through the research that I've been able to do and and and some of the experts in this space that I've been able to share insights with, and all of the wonderful people who have volunteered other time to letting us study them and interview them and talk to them, just like you're doing. Either I have predominantly stable identity going on right now, or maybe I'm in a shift of identity, or maybe I've actually gone into disruption. And those are the three kind of main pathways. And there's a million variations in between. But identity stability is just when we feel like that great feeling, you know, when you lay your beautiful head down tonight and you're like, ah, today was a really great day. A lot of that is a result of identity stability, or or when you just feel those moments of joy and you feel them pretty consistently, and you're like, Oh, I hope this lasts a long time, or you get that job that you really wanted, and you're like, oh, I love this job. I wanted this job, or on the flip side, some of the other stuff that happens, right? Where you're like, I can't, I cannot stay in this job anymore. This isn't me. And then you start to go into a shift, or maybe even a disruption because a job ends. It's it's just interesting to know that again, all of us in this conversation, both you and I here together and everyone listening to you, is in probably one of those stages, or maybe multiple stages. So maybe we have stability in our um in our partnerships. So in in our marriages or our partnerships or our roommates, however, we're defining that, we feel strong stability there. I finally feel this is, you know, I have a great partner, someone I respect, someone I retrust, I feel respect and trust, I feel stability there. But at work, I don't feel that. So now to add to the complexity, you can feel stability here and shift or disruption over here. And depending on the power of each of those, how disruptive this disruption is, it can actually interfere with some of the stability. So you start to see the complexity of it and why it's so fascinating that I love to understand how do we get more stability? Everybody wants more identity stability, but the course of life takes us into things that will inevitably create shifts, that will inevitably create disruption. And so the goal is always that desire for stability. And when we go into that shift, the discomfort we feel or the excitement that we feel, some shifts are exciting. So when you went from being, you know, just caring about Tanya and having to worry about Tanya, and then you decided, okay, I'm I'm gonna get married or I'm gonna have children, especially children, right? And that excitement, which was gonna be a big shift and also a disruption. And parenting is a great example because sometimes we get that rare glimpse of feeling stable and like we know what we're doing. And then the next day we go into a shift or a disruption, and we're like, oh my gosh, I I've made so many bad decisions, or I I don't even know how I'm doing this. So you get to experience this. And I think what's fascinating is we need to be ready and know that we will always enter into one of those three states. And it's more about managing it than it is avoiding or being fearful, but yet we get anxiety and fear because of shifts and disruptions. And so knowing that they're coming is half the battle. Knowing I haven't endured my last disruption, knowing that I'm, you know, going to do that helps me prepare and manage it in a way that makes it less disruptive. So I'm rambling. I could go on and talk about this forever. You always happen to tap into, you know, passion points for me. But I do think it's interesting even to talk to you and say, hey, what's really stable about your identity right now? And are there any shifts going on? And are there any disruptions that you're experiencing? And then the beauty of identity is it's it's actually really co-created. And I think we've put a lot of pressure on people to say, you own your identity, or you're in charge of this, or, you know, be strong and be confident. And really, all those are co-created experiences and your identity is co-created. And so you need to really, when your parents tell you pick your friends wisely, pick your friends wisely. And and try to surround yourself with people who take good care of your identity, who are invested in your identity, who care about what you want to do with your identity because it's co-created. And so your partners, your friends, your family, they all help you co-create it, even your colleagues. So we don't always get to pick these people, right? So that's why shifts and disruptions can happen without notice. But yeah, let's let's focus this for you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So as you're talking, I'm thinking of myself for an example. I had a great childhood. I have the most loving, selfless, devoted parents in the world, right? But I grew up in this background where you're told that these should be your values. This is what you should do, this is what comes next, right? You don't walk a fine line, you stay in the boundaries that are set for you because these boundaries are meant to protect you. And for me, I used to call them thought bubbles. So, you know, I graduated, I became a doctor because my dad's a doctor, my brother's a doctor. So that's what I did, right? And then I married a man who is from the same cultural background, same religious background, also has a doctorate degree. So I was check, check, check, check. Somewhere within me, all along, there was this inside voice that said, something doesn't feel right. I call them thought bubbles, where I would have the thought and I'm like, no, no, don't think that way. Don't think that way. And I would burst the bubble because I couldn't afford to entertain that thought because it required me making huge changes that I didn't have the courage to make. Like the disappointment I would cause the people that I love. And at that point, I had also become a mother. And how is this going to impact my children? How do I proceed through that? And do I have what it takes to make those changes? Or is this midlife crisis? And you know, there's so much information coming at you from everywhere. I knew my truth. I knew who I wanted to be, but it took me a long time from the from the moment where I was like, I know who I want to be, I know what I want out of life until the time I executed that decision, began the unraveling of who I once was. And I don't say rebuilding because I wasn't building again what I once had. Yeah. Unraveling who I once was and building anew who I wanted to be. So I often wondered why is it that some women are able to do that and others don't. I've known plenty of women who spend all of their lives existing, not living, you know, obey obeying the rules, not questioning the rules, checking boxes. And I respect them so much that they weren't able to stick to it, right? I couldn't. And at some point there was such pain in me that I really believed that that pain broke me open. Yeah. And the pain was that factor that caused me to override the fear of uncertainty. How do you navigate through that? What advice do you give to people who may be stuck, who recognize that there's an identity problem, but don't quite have the courage, the path is uncertain. What if the next step they take, they think, oh, the grass is greener, and then they find out it's not? What if they regret their decision? It's hard making a decision without a guarantee. It's hard making a decision based on assumptions that you don't know will unfold correctly. And the instability it causes in your identity, in your world, and your environment, it is painful. What guidance do you give women who might be caught in between those two things?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that's powerful. Thank you for sharing that very intimate story. There's so much there, so much power there. But a lot of it I believe, and when I even young, young women, young professionals, young, young leaders, it comes from when you start feeling, I'm sure there was this discomfort you felt. And this is where the belonging and identity, where you knew I wanted to do this because the people I respect and trust, maybe it was your parents. I respect my parents, I trust my parents, and they want me to do this. And because of that co-created existence of loving my parents, respecting my parents, and trusting them, I'm going to do this because this connects me to them. They are part of my identity. And so they help you. They, and they do that because they love you and want you to be secure. They want you to have a job, they want you to be taken care of yourself and never want for anything. And so the the intents are normally really good, right? Of course, there are some bad, but you have a great story, probably a common story. So people do this to please or to stay connected, to belong in that network of if I do this, it will demonstrate respect and trust to that. So that starts to become part of your identity. And you start to be this dutiful daughter and wife and mother who builds her identity to respect, give respect and trust to those you love. And that's not a bad thing. But there's something inside of you that's like, I'm doing this, but it's why doesn't it feel better? Why don't why do I feel like this isn't where I belong or this isn't who I belong with? Um, so belonging plays a really big part because it'll start to create these, these notions inside of you, like, wow, I I know I should be doing this, I know I want to do this, but there's something just not landing. And that's why the human need to belong is so important, because it will reveal things to you about your identity. And as you grow and as you gain strength, and as you gain courage, and whoever you're surrounding yourself with, and if any of those people say, Hey, maybe, maybe you don't belong there, or I respect you and trust you to make a decision. One little co-creation could give you the strength to say, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. And it might be wrong, I might have regret, I might even feel shame. Whatever comes with that decision, the belonging and the knowing that this isn't my true identity. It is my co-created identity that I'm ready to change. And when that happens and it gets so strong, you will do that. And it will reveal either stability, like, gosh, I made the right decision. Thank goodness I made this decision, or a shift, like, ooh, close, but not it, or disruption, like, oh my God, I just completely blew up my life. And you will work through that. It's kind of like the Buddhist belief that nothing's permanent. I love that belief because disruption might linger longer than it should, to the point of even creating unhealthy situations of mental fatigue, anxiety, depression. It's really important to pay attention to how long disruption lives in your life. But you you will and can make it through that again with the right co-creation, with the right friendships, with the right counselor, with the right partner, with the right discussions with your parents. You can move through that. That courage is really important because it allows you not to the stuck, is when you don't know how to adjust the shift or the disruption and you need help. You need help. And appreciating the fact that these are all relational situations and relationships are co-created. So the relationship, even with yourself, is co-created. How you feel about yourself as a mother is actually co-created with your children. How you feel about yourself as a wife is co-created with your partner. So we put a lot on ourselves and feel like if we're feeling shifts and disruptions, then we we need to figure this out. And that's where we get disappointed, or we feel we're not strong enough, or we feel we lack something, or imposter syndrome, and we try to do it alone and we don't pay homage to the fact that this is co-created states, and you will need partnership or partnerships to get to that desired state. That's when you feel stuck, and that's when you need to reach out or start identifying a very strong partner. And the two criteria you need to get unstuck in a in a relationship partner of co-creation is mutual respect and mutual trust. Without those two, it's really hard to get unstuck. You know? So and that's a dual relationship. So it's not just, gosh, do I respect them and trust them? It's do they cause me to feel respect for myself and trust for myself too? And that will be the strength that will unstick you. Respect for yourself, trust for yourself, and respect for the partner or or friend or whoever that you decide to go on this journey of unstucking, getting unstuck, if that makes sense. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Sometimes I've questioned if I'm a little bit of a hypocrite because I've I've preached for my daughter, especially since I've decided, gosh, now almost 20 years ago, to begin anew, to rise and to say no more. I am gonna forge ahead, carving the path to the life I want to live, the life that's based on my own values. So I've often told my daughter, you have to cut the ties to external validation. Everything you need is within you. Your instinct is your internal compass. Trust it and proceed according to that. You will never go wrong silencing your instinct, that inside voice. So you need to cut the need for external validation. On the flip side of that, and that's why I sit there and I, you know, I self-assess and I say, Am I being a hypocrite? Do I say that to my daughter? But then I turn around and I care very much what people think. Now, the good thing is I've I've reached a point where I self-check, right? Like, wait a minute, this person, do I value them? Do I respect them? Do they play a role in my life? Do they add a value in my life? And if they don't, you know what? They're entitled to their opinion of me. And that's okay. It is not for me to worry about their opinion of me. Right. And I need to move on according to my set of values. I'm responsible for my actions. And as long as they're not illegal, unethical, immoral, I'm not responsible for how others feel about it. But yeah, it doesn't come naturally to me because I'm I'm wired where my sense of self-worth when you know growing up was always being told, good job, you're doing great, getting the recognition from others that I was on the right path. So it's hard letting go of that external artificial validation. Yeah. But still recognizing that your environment, your colleagues, your friends, your family do play a role in your identity.
SPEAKER_00:They do. But you bring up a really important point. Validation, this whole the role that validation plays in identity is really important to manage because when it gets to the point that you can't fully embrace or understand or appreciate your identity or changes to your identity because you're seeking validation or approval, that's when it gets sticky, right? So co-creating together, but still having this firm belief in yourself is still important. Like we don't need someone to say this is definitely the right. You just need them to help build or to brainstorm or to talk through or to help sometimes. But validation, when it gets to the point of being the driving need, could be dangerous. So I think your advice to your daughter is really sound. Like knowing that we can co create this together. Is different than knowing that I need you to approve of whether I did it right or wrong. And again, it's okay to get that information, but to have it dominate your own thoughts of who you want to be and where you belong, that's not, right? That's when it gets to a point of, gosh, I've lost myself, or I can't fully grasp my identity because my identity I let everybody else be in charge of. And you don't want that. I just want to build with you. I want you to be a part of the build. I don't want you to own my build.
SPEAKER_01:How much do you think age plays a role in our identity? So as you're talking, I can't help but think of the fact that I was in my late 30s, I would say even 37, 38 years old, when I finally said, I'm not going to burst that thought bubble. I'm going to go ahead and proceed cautiously, strategically, trying to balance my critical thinking with my broken heart, making sure that my emotions aren't clouding my judgment. It took those first four decades of my life before I finally said no more. Yeah. So can I really expect somebody in her early 20s or mid-20s to try and figure out her own identity and still have the strength to say, no, your approval is not what's going to define me? We can co-create, but your approval's not what's going to define me. Do you think it takes life experience and age to get to that point? Or do you think it's possible to raise young women who, even in their 20s, can do what I couldn't do until in my late 30s and early 40s?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think, I think it's both. I think there are some women and young girls who are able to get it at a young age. And we know we see little children, we see, we see children in our children's classrooms who are just very confident about who they are and and make no excuses. Um, and we're like, huh, there's a good side and a bad side to that, right? And then we see late bloomers who it takes time. So I definitely think time allows us the wisdom and the courage to not need as much from others when it comes to right, or be more brave, or to gain more support or whatever it may be. But that's where belonging comes in, too, of having discussions, more open discussions about where do you feel you belong and talking to our children about that, like asking them questions about where do you want to belong right now and why, and understanding what that is. Is it because I just want to be with that crowd? I mean, as much as we don't want them to feel peer pressure or feel like they have to be in this one group or otherwise they're nothing, having discussions about the where do you feel you belong and why, and using those words and have giving them the words to talk about that, and then discussing the why and giving them the strength to diversify. It's like it's like investments. If we put all of our money in one thing, it's very dangerous, right? And no good advisor would tell you, hey, invest in one good stock. Because if something happens to that, you're gone. Your identity is the same way. If you put all your identity into this friend group or into this particular role or this title or this job, when that job or title or friend group goes away, your your identity, you're like, Well, well, who am I now? Or, you know, especially jobs are really interesting. If you put everything into your job and you're a workaholic and you just you do everything, and then that job ends. You either retire or you leave it or it ends, you know, it's removed. Your identity just starts over. It's just, and you're like, and that's why some people are like, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do now, or they even slip into depression. You've got to diversify your belonging and encourage your children to belong to multiple things, to explore their art, to displore their music, their sports, their friendships, their um involvement. And that's why that will help them really spread out and gain identity in multiple places, which will gain strength, right? So if you just allow them to go into one place, there's this danger of it ending or being devastating or being wrong. And then that's like the big stuff. That's the big disruption. So diversifying where you belong and how many places you feel comfortable or safe belonging will really help your identity. It expands your identity. And that's why the whole, hey, do you have diverse friend groups? Do you have diverse experiences? It does. It adds to us feeling safer and more courageous moving around. And it stabilizes your identity, believe it or not.
SPEAKER_01:So when we're speaking of identity disruption, earlier you mentioned about how you could be doing great, let's say, in your personal life, in your marriage, in your relationship. And there's some sort of disruption of your identity professionally. For some people, that disruption actually bleeds into their marriage and it can hurt their marriage. Yeah. For others, they use the strong identity they have in their marriage that actually uplifts them and helps them get through the disruption that they're experiencing professionally. Correct. So, what's the determining factor and whether or not the disruption bleeds into your personal identity versus your personal identity is so strong that it uplifts you and helps stabilize you through the disruption of your life professionally.
SPEAKER_00:I'd say it's percentages, and you're you're exactly right. That happens quite a bit, right? So we've built this career, we've contributed to family, we've lived a good life, we could take vacations, we could pay the bills and not worry. And I have a great relationship, I have, you know, great friendships going on, but this ends, or I decide to make this end. And now all of a sudden, I don't know what to do with myself. I'm a little bit grumpy, I'm short with everyone at home. And this one disruption, even though I've diversified, ends up impacting my others. And then you won, you know that you've maybe overinvested in that. And you really need to sit with, okay, what why did that dominate who I am? Because surely you're not just that job. You know, you did a great job, but it must have really consumed a lot of space about how you view yourself, how you value yourself, what value you think you offer others. And when that's gone, you question, well, what do I have to offer people? And will people respect me without this role, without this title? And so that one seems to carry a lot of where you felt you belonged and who you felt you were. And when that big identity, that that dominant identity in our life ends, depending on how it ends, if you choose to end it, it will be less disruptive, but possibly still disruptive. If it ends because something bad happened in it or you just felt horrible about it and it needed to end abruptly, that could create more disruption. And if it ended at no fault of your own and it just abruptly ended and you weren't ready for it, that's probably the biggest disruption, right? When something leaves and we weren't ready for it to leave and we weren't planning for it to leave, that'll really rock our world. Divorces do that, friendship arguments or something like those types of things rock our world and because our identity is disrupted and we had no idea it was coming, or it was coming, but we weren't ready. So I think it's really about kind of evaluating and saying, why is this rocking my world so much? Why did this contain so much of my identity? It's not necessarily bad, but to get out of it, you really have to sit and explore and understand why. Why did that change in my life upset my identity? And what did it take away from me? And then evaluate and see, well, what am I going to do to adjust, reinvest, you know, take what I had there and put elsewhere or distribute differently. And it really is like invest, it's relational investments. It's your relational investment, who you believe you are. And you'll see that you'll do it. We move through it all the time. We've we dealt with numerous shifts and disruptions throughout our life and we get better. That's why age does help us because we know it's not going to be the end. When a friend best friendship ended in grade school, we thought it was the end of our world. When a when a romantic relationship ended in middle school or high school, we thought we would never be able to breathe again. And yet here we are, right? So as you get older, you know that you will be able to figure out disruptions and you might, you know, be able to get through them a little bit easier. So that courage and that strength, we just need to a lot of times to pull people that we respect and trust into that to help us get through it because that's something we didn't do really well when we were younger. We don't want to tell anybody, we don't want to talk about, we just want to cry or pout or go and sink into a shell. Um so having a best friend, having a great partner, having a parent or a child that you can talk to through that will actually help with the redistribution of your identity wealth and where you want to put that so that you can start growing it elsewhere.
SPEAKER_01:I I don't know if this is normal or unique to me, but I find that when I'm going through something stressful, it somehow dysregulates my nervous system. And if I'm not mindful, everything in my life suddenly feels bad. I see problems where there were no problems before. I tend to be more negative. So I have to check myself. You know, right now I'm struggling with this one thing, but it doesn't mean everything else is bad. So for me personally, what lifts me through these challenges is the practice of gratitude, to count my blessings, to think of all that is right in my life, to think of all the opportunities that present themselves to me, or the fact that I'm I even have a chance to create opportunities for myself. And for me, gratitude really helps to ground me through difficult times when I feel like my nervous system is being disrupted by stressors. I love that. You know, we talk, I feel like the buzzword is self-care, right? But life gets so busy. I I've always said that I don't want to wake up and go, go, go, go, go, where my life is a series of reactions and reflexes and it's constant next thing and next thing, next thing. Sometimes I just want to pause, stop, and think and feel and be intentional in how I choose things, how I execute decisions, that I'm not just reacting, but I'm critically thinking and intelligently executing. Yeah. And I don't know, do you believe that gratitude makes a difference? Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I I think even gratitude for who you are, like if you could even spend some time, gratitude is just it affects everything, right? It affects us mentally, it affects us physically, it affects us emotionally, like hitting the pause button and saying, What am I grateful for? Impacts how we function. So it's a great exercise that you can actually use with identity, like doing an inventory. If you if you just did like an extended T-bar and said, Hey, what is stable about my identity right now? Like where do I feel like strong stability about who I am and feel really good about it? Where is that? And are there any shifts that seem to be happening or that are coming down the pike for me? And then disruption. Do I see any disruptions about to happen or am I ready for a disruption? And then even doing that inventory of where is most of my identity sitting right now. Those are self-awareness exercises that will give you the opportunity to be grateful for here's here's where I experience identity stability. I love my volunteer work. I love when I do my, you know, bike rides for philanthropy events and and when I give back. That is a strong piece of who I am. And I'm really grateful for that. That combination of paying attention to where is some of my identity sitting and what am I grateful for that? Do I feel gratitude for that? And if the answer is yes, well, that's a pot of gold. Take care of that, protect it, invest in it. And then looking at are there any shifts happening, good or or possibly negative? And then paying attention for the being grateful for the good shifts that are coming, like I'm about to become a mother, I'm about to become a grandmother, I'm about to get married, I'm grateful for that. That's going to be a shift. And then planning for, are there any disruptions I see coming my way, or have I invested somewhere that I'm a little bit nervous about planning for those? And that act of placing your gratitude in the right space as it relates to your identity will help you kind of protect it, nurture it, water it, and take care of it and prepare for some of those shifts and disruptions better. So I think gratitude is just such a wonderful exercise. Um, it never feels bad. There's never too much of it. You can just overdo it and not feel terrible about it.
SPEAKER_01:So, you know, if you're raised in a way where you are taught from day one that you must strive for excellence, always give 110%. You have to be at the top of your class, you have to do everything well, all of that. When you do a little inventory and you're, you know, I'm a firm believer that it's important to be introspective, to look at my assets, my strengths, as well as the opportunities for continued growth and improvement. Yeah. If I'm not careful, I tend to harp on myself much harder than I give myself credit for. I can have 10 things that I do well. That one thing that I don't do well, if I'm not careful, can chip away at my sense of self-worth. It's away at me. I don't celebrate the successes as boldly and loudly as I criticize myself. So, how do you make sure to balance that so it doesn't chip away at your identity, your overall wonderful identity?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'd say this is probably one of the most frequent situations I deal with with high-perferring adults, especially leaders in any space, because achieving and doing and producing are labeled as so good, so productive, and anything other than will chip away, right? So I think understanding that it's like anything. So say we only have so much money, right? We only we have a budget and we only have so much money, you can't overspend, otherwise, things will happen, right? And you'll run out of money. If you have your gas tanks full and you want to plan a trip, you can't just go beyond what's in the gas tank, right? Because you'll stop and you won't get anywhere and you might be stuck in the middle of nowhere. So you have to plan accordingly. And this whole distribution of emotional funds and positive and negative reward system, we have to manage. We have to pay really close attention. And again, that's that's identity stability shifts and disruption. So identity stability is is positive energy, right? Shifts can be positive or negative, so you have to pay attention and disruption is always negative, it's taxing. Right. So we really need to see, like, and retrain our brain to understand that we will always gravitate towards the negative because we're fearful of it. We're we're wired to prevent risk, to protect ourselves and others. And so it's it's going to hold more weight. A compliment holds very little, it's great and it'll give you a boost of energy, but it only lasts so long because we don't let it live there. But a criticism lives a long time. It could live years, it could live a lifetime. And for some reason, we are naturally wired, no matter how positive, no matter how much mindfulness, we are naturally wired to pay more attention to the negative energy than we are the positive. And so managing that and understanding what is positive about your identity. And are there any room? Is there any room for fixing or managing our identity better? You can take a look at even words. I have people write words on, all right, what did I do really well today? And people hate this exercise, but what did I nail today? And there's gonna be some things, right? And what did I do that I wasn't I felt wasn't good? And you do that for one week and watch how many words you have under how many things you did that weren't right or weren't good or weren't perfect, and watch how many words you have under nailed it. And I guarantee you those will be disproportionate, and you'll have a few words undernailed, and you'll have an abundant amount, probably a book full, of the negative. And logically, you know that doesn't make sense. So manage it. So you need to, and this is where co-creation comes in again, because your friends would do just the opposite. Friends who respect you and trust you will say, and you make yourself sit there and say, Hey, I gotta do an inventory. Can you tell me anything that I've nailed or or done really well in our friendship? Um, kids are dangerous to do this with, but if they're over the age of, I'd say probably 23, you can do this exercise. So if you're lucky enough to have kids kids over the age of 23, ask them. It's just a fun exercise. It'll get them in the habit of doing it too and say, Hey, I I always want to be a great mother and do better. I want to hear from you like, is there anything that I did as a mother this month that I nailed for you that I did really well that landed well with you? And is there anything I did wrong? Or anything you wish I would have done differently? And have those give those words and you'll start seeing the proportions change. Your proportions of what you would say you did as a mother is going to be filled with things you didn't do or things and a couple words of maybe I I did this really well. Switch that and get the data from the person actually receiving it, the co-creation, right, and see what they come up with. And I bet you you'll see something really cool that they give you a ton of good words and a few opportunity words. And you'll start to get a better real life perception of what you're doing. You'll at least get balance. But if you're only going to yourself for this data and you're not co-creating the answers to this because it is relational and you're only getting your data, watch where your head goes. And you're always going to be self-critical. You're always going to be tougher on yourself. So start getting some data. And this is realistic. I mean, you've built it with them, you've invested in them. Who has better data than them? And you'll start getting that adjustment. It's just a good exercise they have people go through. So they stop with the abundance of criticism and it starts becoming more balanced. Like, wow, maybe I'm just being negative or hard on myself today. When you get to that point, you know you're in good management. You're good in good identity management. So whoever you have a relational category with, create the awkward conversation of, hey, I'm working on this and I want to just get feedback from you on, you know, what am I really doing that landed well with you or felt good for you? And is there any opportunity areas you can give me? And start watching that. It'll be it's a feel good too.
SPEAKER_01:That's brilliant advice. I love it. Thank you. Um, so you know, in a world of accomplishments and to-do lists and production and all of that, one of the things that I don't like, even looking at colleges or grad school, right? They look at your GPA, they look at um, you know, entrance exam scores, they look at these things that they think they can measure. I think oftentimes what we miss is there's no assessment of somebody's integrity, somebody's grit, somebody's emotional intelligence or their critical thinking ability. I actually don't like that they call some of these things soft skills because I think soft skills are so powerful and so impactful in how much we accomplish and what we're able to do. So we all lead lives. We are all leaders in some way, shape, or form, whether personally or professionally. Yeah. What makes somebody a good leader? What would you say are the top three or four qualities? And if you don't possess those qualities, is it realistic to think yet you? Can attain them or those innate things, you either have them or you don't. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:My most favorite question, and you are so spot on. One of the rules I make in any of the classes that I'm teaching, especially as it relates to traditional soft skills, is that they are no longer allowed from that day forward to call them soft skills. And you're right, organizations predominantly say these are optional soft skills. So you can sign up for those courses or you don't have to, but you will, you will do this development. You will take, you know, the strategy courses or the analysis courses, and all those things are important, but the uh the relational courses and the empathy courses, those are optional. And what's funny is the whole cliche statement that people don't leave their job, they leave their boss. So true. So retention, turnover, all the issues we have, losing great employees, it'll normally come down to the relational debacle, not the job itself. So, yes, I think soft skills are actually the hardest skills that anyone in the office tries to accomplish. And it will create havoc if they're not. It impacts culture, it impacts productivity, retention, anything that we do measure, there is a relational component to it that if you're respected and trusted, it will be better. Productivity goes up, engagement goes up, retention goes up if you're treated well. The number one, so I spent a lot of time doing this in selecting leaders and building leaders. Can you change relational habits? Can you change your emotional intelligence, your relational intelligence? Yes. Dan Golman has proved it. Uh, in our own neck of the woods, Richard Boyatts', all the social scientists have proved like, do some people have better capabilities than others? Yes. Are some people wired to be more empathetic than others? Yes. But the beauty of emotional intelligence as opposed to intellectual quotient. So your IQ versus your EQ is your IQ is predominantly handed to you by your parents. So you're genetically wired to be able to do this. Now, education will allow you to kind of push that to the limit. So it still takes development to raise your IQ to the level it's supposed to be. EQ is beautiful, emotional intelligence, because you have a lot more control over it and you can move it. So anyone says, I am who I am and acts like, you know, it can't be changed. Could it be harder for them? Yes. But is it something we can change? We've seen time and time again and researched on that you can absolutely do it. So the number one thing is pick your leaders wisely. Don't pick on skill alone because they're, and we used to call these unicorns, and I don't think they're unicorns at all. I think there are a lot of people who understand that if you raise your hand to be a leader of people, you better be interested and focused on people. And your skills are more of the bonus than your relational abilities. I don't want to work for someone. I don't want a leader who thinks that relationships are just secondary and that all we're going to be focused on is the skills necessary. So, number one, what it takes to be better leaders is I say the two top skills, there's two things you've got to have. Three things you've got to have. One, you gotta like people. If you're gonna lead people, at least like people. Um, and some people are brutally honest and say, God, I I love this leadership role. I just don't want to lead people. Definitely don't put that person in the role. Either create more roles for skills, create more higher levels that just entail skills and project management, or don't hire that person because there's lots of people who know how to do both. And unfortunately, we don't always value that or or measure that to your point as much as we should. And so the other two things are respect. Do they treat people with respect and get feedback on that? We do a lot of research on have they done this, do they have this job skill? Do they have this experience? And do we find out how they treat people and then trust? There are leaders that just give trust and let you do with it what you will. That's really hard to find. And then there's a lot of leaders that sit around and say trust is earned. I don't know. I I would rather work for the leader who gives it to me and lets me do with it what I will than someone who makes me sit around and earn it. Because there's a price tag with that. There's a there's a um that's conditional trust, and that's actually not trust at all. So leaders, good leaders, are able to give respect and build respect and give trust and build trust. Those are the things I look for every single time in a leader. If I get that, I've gotten a good p person who is interested in growing and investing in people and knows that they've just raised their hand to not only get a job done, but to take good care of people. And that's who I want. So those three things, do they like people? Do they respect people? And are they capable of trusting people? Even if they get hurt or let down, can they still give trust? Those are the three things that I think are a mandatory requirement for good leaders.
SPEAKER_01:So Fire in Her Eyes is a podcast, as you know, about women who persevere. Who is a woman you've met who inspires you? Um, or even it could be somebody you you've never met, but somebody that you admire, who symbolizes perseverance, and somebody who possesses qualities you hope to attain one day.
SPEAKER_00:It's very interesting when you started this and you were talking about your parents and your family. My childhood was very different. So I was adopted. So because my mother was so young, she had to put me up for adoption. And so I never got to meet her. And then I had an adopted mother who went through some tough times um um mentally and physically and left when I was very young. So I never had that um mother-daughter relationship until my own daughters arrived. And so it's funny, I'm I'm actually gonna pick people younger than me. Um my daughters, I admire them. I admire their strength and their courage. I admire um, I'm very open with them about the fact that they are my, you know, first mother-daughter relationship came from the other way versus from a mother, it came from a daughter teaching me what mother-daughter. And they've been such good teachers and they've been so gracious, forgiving me when I make mistakes and loving me in spite of it, and strong and teaching. And they realize that they're in this with me. And so, um, and I admire them and I'm proud of them. And I will say, you know, this is gonna be something that you're gonna poo-poo. But I'd have to say, Tanya, you are one of the peers who has inspired me tremendously. You you've offered me strength through your ability to push through some very hard situations. Um, you've continuously given to others when you had very little to give, and you felt like your tank was empty. Somehow you found a way to give. And I always think of that when I'm running low on energy. I frequently see you speaking to people in front of a huge audience of of people that you don't know to inspire them to donate and to give and to support um different things, different causes, especially um donations and thank you. And yes. And so you're very, very inspiring. And I think it's awesome when there's peers, when there's someone who's your age or younger that inspires you. I I find tremendous strength from that. And so you're you're a very strong peer who I admire and who I respect and trust. I trust you. And you have also invested in my self-respect and my self-trust. And so that's that mutual gift that is so precious. And you you've given that generously. So I'd I'd pick you and my daughters.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. I am so honored to be in that league. The truth of it is whatever little I give, um, it's not selfless. I think it's just the opposite. It's so selfish. I do it because it brings me such joy, because I live with such hunger, because I am determined to somehow, some way create a positive ripple effect. I've been given so much of my life. I'm so thankful for every moment of pain that I've experienced that's broken me open. And it's through that breaking that I've been able to contain so much joy and passion and vision and gratitude and purpose. And I get to live so richly. So I think you give me too much credit. There we go again with that whole inventory thing.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. I'm gonna make you do the exercise before we leave. I'm gonna, as your friend, I'm gonna do this exercise. I'm gonna tell you where you landed the plane and any opportunities. Okay. So where you've landed the plane, just in I I'll have to stick to 30, 30 days, okay, because if I go the whole time I've known you, we'll be here for hours. But in the last 30 days alone, where you've landed the plane is just your courage to explore this. It's it's innovative. Um, it's again giving of your your creativity, your ability to do this, even setting this up, your technology. I'm very impressed with um your love. Watching you grow this beautiful love you have with Dan and the love you have for your your two boys and your daughter and your two stepdaughters. Like you're so um interested in ways to give more, do more, and love more with them. I love that. You're landing that plane beautifully. Um and you're exploring your career at a time when it's it's time. You feel it's time, you know, to do more, give more. And I love that you're expanding that and you're lifting up the hood and saying, well, what am I supposed to do? What am what else am I supposed to be doing? So I love that. And an opportunity area, I think it's pretty crystal clear to probably many of your listeners is you beat yourself up about a lot of things and you're very, you're humble to a fault. You never take credit for anything, and you never think that you've arrived. There's always something else you're supposed to do. So you need to work on those two things.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00:Your proportions too. You only got two that I could come up with, and you've got about eight to ten. Thank you. I I walked right into that one, didn't I? You did. You did.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Laura, thank you so much. I know you lead such a busy life and you have so much on your plate. I appreciate you more than you know for taking the time to share your wisdom and your insight with us. And thank you much more importantly, for your friendship and all the ways you enriched my life and you stepped in just when I needed you most. And you truly infused me with faith and hope and optimism and gratitude when I needed it and lifted me up and helped me to find my way to this wonderful life I get to lead today. And I am so thankful that you are a part of my tribe.
SPEAKER_00:So thank you. I am forever grateful. I'm grateful for you too. Thanks for doing this for women, Tanya. I think your investment in this space is priceless. I'm so proud of you and I'm glad you're doing it. Thank you so much. Take care. Be well. Be well.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for spending time with me today. If you enjoyed this content, please make sure you subscribe to this podcast and leave a quick review to help us share the message.