Turning ADHD Struggles Into Stories

What if all the scattered thoughts, half-finished projects, and “doom piles” weren’t flaws but part of how your brain is uniquely wired? 

ADHD expert and author Meredith gets real about her late diagnosis and how finally understanding her brain turned years of frustration into self-acceptance.

She breaks down why ADHD minds think in “spider webs” instead of straight lines, how that can be a struggle in structured settings but a total superpower in creative ones, and why embracing chaos might just be the secret to thriving.

Whether you live with ADHD, love someone who does, or just want to get what makes these brains tick, this episode is packed with laughs, insights, and practical tips you can actually use. 

Hit play and don’t forget to subscribe for more eye-opening conversations that make you see things differently.

Transcript

Meeting an ADHD Expert

Speaker 1 0:05

Okay, so welcome to our podcast. This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin off of our radio show, so thanks for coming. Um, I don't really like to prepare for interviews and I just kind of like the wing interviews and, uh, I was really nervous about you coming on this podcast because you're, like, an adhd expert. Is that like, what, like, what? What do I call you? Are you an adhd expert?

Speaker 1 0:42

yeah, you can say expert I like the word expert and and I'm insecure because I've been diagnosed before by, like psychiatrists and stuff, but I also don't believe them, but I don't know. But you got this book right. It all makes sense now. So explain the book to me and then I'd like to go over your history and a bunch of other things sure, uh.

Speaker 2 1:01

So, as you just said, the book book is called. It All Makes Sense Now Embrace your ADHD Brain to Live a Creative and Colorful Life. This book is a combination of personal stories from my past that relate to how ADHD has shown up in my life. I was not diagnosed with ADHD until I was almost 40.

Speaker 2 1:24

So there were a lot of things happening that felt really chaotic, that I didn't have a great explanation for in my life, and then I start each chapter with an anecdote that leads into an explanation of a symptom or something that's a common challenge for people with ADHD, and then I kind of explain what's actually happening in the brain behind that challenge, and then I finish it with strategies so that people have takeaways and a way to kind of apply some of the information they're learning to improve their life.

Speaker 1 1:55

Is that why it's called it? All Makes Sense? Yes, Like you get diagnosed, you're like oh, my whole life makes sense now.

Speaker 2 2:03

Absolutely Like what.

Speaker 1 2:04

What's something that happened in your past that now makes sense?

Speaker 2 2:08

You know I could think back right now. I have a 16 year old who just got her driver's license a few months ago and I was super anxious about that because of my driving history. So when I was a teenager I got my license within six months I had been in three accidents. I was pulled over one week three times in a row for not having my lights on.

Speaker 2 2:31

This is before automatic lights were a thing, constantly locking my keys in the car, and I just could not figure out why this wasn't happening to everybody else. I remember my dad sitting me down after the third accident which was me backing into a McDonald's drive-thru line or sign, which I don't even know how to explain how that happened, and he just said, meredith, why does this keep happening? You just have to pay attention. And I was like I know, but I don't know how, like I can't, so I thought I was trying to pay attention. So that really made a lot more sense when I understood how differently my brain is wired A couple other things that stand out. I really struggled with losing things, working memory. So I would find, like the coffee pot in the fridge, I would find, like my keys in the most random place and you know, it's almost like I was doing things but my brain was somewhere else. And that made a lot more sense when I understood that I had ADHD.

Speaker 1 3:38

Is ADHD different in men and women?

Speaker 2 3:41

I think that it can show up differently, like across and women. I think that it can show up differently, like across. You know all human experiences. I think a lot of it really depends on if you are what they call predominantly hyperactive or predominantly inattentive. So it used to be thought that girls and women tended to have the inattentive type of ADHD, so they had less hyperactivity. I don't know that that's necessarily true. I think that girls and women are socialized to channel their hyperactivity differently. I think we're expected to not be bouncing off the walls, to calm down, to be a good girl, so I think we just get really good at not showing that to the world. So it shows up differently. But I don't know if it has anything to do with the brain structure or if it has to do with how we're socialized in the world.

Speaker 1 4:38

I have this friend of mine. He has ADHD and he's one of the few people where I love him so much. We'll go to lunch and let's say an hour lunch. We will talk about 45 different things and we follow each other perfectly. It's the best, it's literally it's right. But he's also medicated. I'm not. So what's your take on that, and have you been medicated? Are you medicated? Is that too personal? But you wrote a book, so you should be open.

Speaker 2 5:07

No, I can totally talk about that. I am really open to medication. I have been on meds in certain periods of my life where I couldn't risk having days where I just could not turn my brain on.

Speaker 1 5:22

On.

Speaker 2 5:22

You could turn it on, turn it on, um, on, you could turn it on like uh, do you ever experience, john jay, the feeling of like, some days your brain is like locked in and you can be super focused on something for like hours on end and then the next day it's like getting started on? Anything feels impossible. Does that ever happen to you?

Speaker 1 5:38

I mean, I have a version of something like that yeah, yeah, I have like I go through things for like I, I and I really, like I really want to be a magician. I want to learn everything I can about magic or and then, and then it fades after a while. I get into these things yeah.

Speaker 1 5:54

I'm really passionate about certain things, but then sometimes I stick with it, you know. Let me just tell you, I was so nervous about you coming here. I didn't want to be, I didn't want to have ADHD during our interview. So I went and I worked out for an hour to get my yas out, as my wife says. Then I went and I sat in a red light bed for 20 minutes. Then I went and I ran on a treadmill for a mile. Then I went and sat in a sauna infrared sauna for 20 minutes. Then I went in the hot tub, then I went in the cold puddle and I took a shower.

Speaker 2 6:26

And then I came here hoping to be like.

Speaker 1 6:27

You can't have ADHD in front of the lady that knows about it. I just didn't want you to go. What a terrible interview. No.

Speaker 2 6:31

I love it. I mean, I think that we could have the type of conversation that you have with your friends, where we take it in different directions. Your ADHD listeners they'll be able to keep up.

Speaker 1 6:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:41

But I think that's really interesting that you brought that up, because my relationship to bring it back to the medication question is when I'm in periods of my life where I can do all those things that you mentioned. I love to exercise too.

Speaker 1 6:54

I don't love to exercise, but you love the impact it has on you. Yeah, I like the results of it Right exactly.

Speaker 2 6:59

I discovered in my early adulthood that my brain was different on exercise and it was kind of the same thing where I was not an athletic kid, I didn't have like a love of sports or anything, but I discovered running and I was like, wow, I have a different brain on the days I run. But I couldn't run seven days a week. I ran six days a week. You know different phases of my life and that helped a lot to an extent. And then doing all of the other things with health and nutrition and self-care. When I can do all of those things, I don't need to be medicated. When I am going through times in my life where those things are not as accessible because of life circumstances, where I'm at with kids, what I'm taking care of, those are times when I've been on meds and they've helped a lot during those times.

Speaker 1 7:47

Okay, so I was seeing a therapist for a while, right, and he's like you have ADHD. So he puts me on meds and I remember I was getting on an airplane and he gave me put me on Adderall, okay. Okay, so I take this Adderall and I get on a plane for the first time, I'm in the emergency room and the flight attendant says to me sir, you're in the emergency room, I need your verbal.

Speaker 1 8:07

Do you understand how they do that in the emergency room and I couldn't speak, and I was like, and I was like, yeah, and I was like oh my God, and I just couldn't sleep. I could not, I was out.

Speaker 2 8:17

And I was like this is terrible.

Speaker 1 8:19

So I called the shrink and I said I can't be on this stuff, it's terrible. So he put me on something else called Vyvanse, right. So I took Vyvanse and I took it for a few months while I was on the air and I mean I really felt different, like I felt like I could pay attention and.

Speaker 1 8:34

I was like much like this book, it all makes sense. Now I was like I was like wait a minute, is this how people are every day? Like this is what it's like to be normal, to pay attention. And I didn't like the way I was on the radio. I didn't like like I kind of feel sometimes now in my career, in my life, that ADHD if that's what I truly have it's been a benefit to me, right? So I I went off the Vyvanse. Now I will say this I go to LA once a year. I mean, I go a few times a year, but I go for once a year for this conference, and what they do is they bring out you, I sit in this theater and they bring out all the new music for the upcoming year, right? So all the artists come and they it's a really cool thing they like you know, jennifer Lopez here's my new song. Justin Bieber here's my new song. Hope you like it, but it's like 10 hours and.

Speaker 1 9:22

I can't sit through it. But I take a Vyvanse.

Speaker 2 9:25

I'm good to go yeah right so, but I haven't done that in a while yeah, I mean I think it's really interesting how you mentioned that it works for the focus, but it changes some other things.

Speaker 2 9:39

Something that I think is super interesting about ADHD brains is that the way we filter information is different, so our brains take in a lot more of what's going on around us.

Different Brain Wiring and Medication

Speaker 2 9:50

So that's why it's we struggle to direct our attention. So I could be talking to you, but I'm also hearing the cars out there, I'm noticing what this guy over here is doing and I'm putting that all together kind of like in the background, and that makes us really creative people, it makes us really intuitive. It's probably what makes you a really awesome radio host, because you're able to kind of tie a story together really, really quickly, because you have absorbed a lot of information that other people were tuning out because they were focusing on the most important thing in the moment. So I think that makes sense that when you can have that like really really directed focus, you do kind of lose everything else that you're picking up around you. So in certain contexts not you know, not being able to focus so intently on that one you know important thing in front of you can actually lead to other really great things that benefit you in other contexts.

Speaker 1 10:44

Does your book help people Like it's? So like, who gets this book? Someone who has ADHD and they want to know how to survive every single day? Or is it someone that's trying to transition out of HD? Can you get out of ADHD? No, you're stuck on it.

Speaker 2 10:58

It's a lifelong thing. It is a neurobiological. They call it a disorder, but whether you identify with that term is personal Right. But technically, it's typically something that you are born with, and if you're diagnosed as an adult, you have to show evidence that this existed in your childhood too. So yes, you can. Like. For me it would be going back and being like all the car accidents.

Speaker 1 11:23

What about before that?

Speaker 2 11:24

Even before that, as a kid like I got good grades in school, but I was constantly fidgeting Like I'm seeing you bounce your leg. Like I was the leg. I'm trying not to no, it's fine, it's like so funny for me, like I love being able to see ADHD in action.

Speaker 1 11:39

So you would say, look at me, that I have it.

Speaker 2 11:41

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you really do, and I don't think it's a bad thing, and that's what we have to and that doesn't mean that you're not managing it really really well.

Speaker 2 11:55

And I think we have to stop looking at like the name ADHD, the way we do Like the word deficit is like really not the whole picture, right, I look at ADHD from a neurodiversity lens so it's not to me a disorder, it's a different way of being. So it can feel like a disorder if you don't have support, if you're not in an environment that makes sense, if you're in the wrong job that like doesn't really activate your brain in the right way it can be. It can feel really disabling. But if you have the right environment, you know how your brain works, you know what works for you and you have support, it can be really, um, just an important type of brain to have in this world so let me ask you a couple things.

Speaker 1 12:35

Let me tell me I'll give you some scenarios tell me if it's an adhd thing. Let's say I got to go to a company function and there's advertisers and clients there and I talk to them and I think I could do really well in little doses. When I talk to somebody for a long time I don't know what to say and like I might have another disorder besides ADHD but I'll be sitting there staring at someone talking to them and I'm like, as I'm talking, I'm going.

Speaker 1 12:57

Oh my god, what do I say now? What do? I say now they're on to me, I'm not paying attention. I better move and go over there now. Is that something like that?

Speaker 2 13:06

Yeah, I mean it sounds like you kind of, because you've known that that's been a struggle in the past. You're probably like thinking ahead, like oh, I've got to know what to say next, versus being able to tune into what they're saying and be present in that conversation.

Speaker 1 13:20

Like my wife, she'll talk to people and she has these wonderful conversations with all these different people. I have a neighbor, friend of mine. He's the nicest guy. They just talk and talk, and talk and I'm like, how do they do that? I just can't I can't, I can't, I don't know how to do it?

Speaker 2 13:35

Is it different depending on what they're talking about?

Speaker 1 13:38

I don't know. Also, you know, I was thinking about what you said when you were a kid, like for me, when you said you know, there's such a great title. It all makes sense now because for me it's. I remember going back to my childhood and I remember like my dad trying to teach me homework and I didn't get it math or certain spelling and he would say I remember he'd get so mad at me and my sister, she's like a genius.

Speaker 1 13:59

She got top of her class, graduated magna cum, whatever UCLA in, and she was just so smart and we had the same parents and I remember she was younger than me and she would understand my homework and I didn't understand my homework and at the time, whatever I didn't get it and I think that if the tools that we have nowadays, I probably could have used those tools. In fact, I don't really know how I got to where I was in school. I think I failed up, if that makes sense, because I didn't understand so much going on. I was just talking to my. Let's see, I'm all over the place. Right now. My son is 19 years old and he's going to be a freshman in college. I was a freshman in college at 17. And I just don't think I was ready for it, right. I don't think I was developed anywhere near where he is and I think there's. It took me seven years to get through school, took me forever and I didn't have any help you know, so I don't know, is that ADHD?

Speaker 2 14:55

yeah, one really interesting thing about ADHD is that they have evidence that ADHD children's brains are. Typically certain regions of their brain, like the prefrontal cortex, develop about three years later than their peers. So it's not that you are less smart, but your brain was catching up to certain developmental milestones like slower. So that may be why that young adulthood really was a little bit harder for you. Because, uh, part of the brain that's impacted by adhd, it struggles with executive functions. Have you heard that term before?

Speaker 1 15:33

no okay.

Speaker 2 15:34

So those executive functions are a set of things that your brain needs to be able to do, like prioritizing, uh, motivation, uh, self-management, so things like getting through the boring tasks of life, um, focus, cognitive flexibility. All of those things are impacted by adhd and they develop slower, so they're all skills that you need to, like turn your homework in on time, to you know, arrive at class on time I just would never do do my homework. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 16:04

Right oh yeah, I was that kid. The reason I got good grades is because if I'm interested in something, I will remember it Right. I'll remember it for a really long time, but I can take a test and pass it, usually because I'm pretty good at like noticing patterns and context clues.

Speaker 1 16:21

Well, how do you have ADHD and write a book? That's impressive. I can't. I'll be reading a book. I read it. I have so many books. I'm currently reading seven books, seven or eight books, and I can't get through one. I read the same page over and over and over again.

Speaker 2 16:45

Is that? Do you have that too? Um, you know, I've always actually loved to read if I like what I'm reading. If it's a boring book, I will DNF that book like so fast.

Speaker 1 16:48

I won't make myself push through, but I was always a reader growing up, um, I I've always really loved to write, so that helped. So are you like a low level ADHD? Because you seem really no, I'm very yeah, I.

Speaker 2 16:56

I'm very good at masking my ADHD. That's, I think, why it took me so long to get diagnosed is because I figured out really early. I went to Catholic school growing up and girls like me that questioned authority and wanted to do things differently, like we didn't have the best outcomes in terms of have you had ADHD issues, like in your marriage.

Speaker 1 17:15

Is there a side effect of that? Like yes.

Speaker 2 17:17

I there definitely is. I wrote about it a little bit in my book. My husband is extremely neurotypical, very responsible. He's like we're like yin and yang, I feel like. And it worked out really well in a lot of ways because he's helped me get through the mundane things in life, because he's so organized and I've helped him be more fun, like I'm the fun one in the marriage?

Speaker 1 17:39

Did that just happen or did you seek him out I?

Speaker 2 17:41

think we kind of figured that out right away. I actually was probably attracted to people that were more chaotic earlier in my life. Like he was the first like responsible person that I found a connection with. But I think I knew what I needed and it worked out really well, I think, for both of us. Worked out really well, I think for both of us. But sometimes we do come into conflict. Where I need to be able to operate in the cycles that make sense for my brain, like I'll get really hyper, focused on a project and see it through and that will be my life for like four days and then I'm like a potato for a couple of days and even like the most basic things can be hard for me at times, like unloading the dishwasher, making a meal like just the everyday life things.

Creative Thinking and Work Challenges

Speaker 2 18:26

Can be hard for me at times, like unloading the dishwasher, making a meal like just the everyday life things, because ADHD brains are driven by interest and that stuff is not interesting, whereas my husband, like it, feels so foreign to me he can wake up in the morning and, like, start unloading the dishwasher. I would never be able to do that. I can wake up in the morning, I have to drink a cup of coffee, which is a stimulant which is basically what ADHD meds are and then I have to go for a run and then I have to do four more things before I can even face like some of those more mundane things of life. So him not understanding why I'm this way caused some conflict and me not understanding why he's not more impulsive and fun and like ready to just like let life happen. Um, you know, at times was hard, but overall I think we have found a good partnership because we appreciate each other's differences do you have?

Speaker 1 19:17

is this a symptom of ADHD? I think. I think I saw that it is piles of stuff yes, I have piles all over my house.

Speaker 2 19:24

Yeah, you know, and that can be a lot of things. I think what probably is happening with we call them doom piles like things that just accumulate.

Speaker 2 19:32

Sometimes we don't realize it, but we're afraid to put things away because it's out of sight, out of mind for us. I mentioned working memory earlier. So working memory is like it's not your short-term memory, but it's kind of like that. It's more like the scratch pad in your brain that has the steps needed to like work through something, and our working memory is trash. So we might like have a item and be like okay, I need to go put it somewhere, but our brain's not going to hold on to where we put it later. So if we put something in a drawer and we need it later, we don't know where it is. So that's why we have so many things out in in the doom pile, because if we can see it, we remember it exists is that in here?

Speaker 2 20:19

yeah, oh, there's a whole chapter on that stuff. Oh, really, my wife gets.

Speaker 1 20:23

She's used to it now, but she she'll be like like I'll have all my piles. And then let's say we're having a function or people over, then my pile goes into a box and that box goes in the garage and if I ever need something I had to go through my piles of boxes to see what all the things are. I have piles of clothes, I have piles of vitamins, I have piles of everything all over the house and it's frustrating and I feel bad for her.

Speaker 2 20:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1 20:45

Because she likes to keep it clean. She's really. She sounds like your husband.

Speaker 2 20:47

She's really butt down. Yeah, he would love to not see my clutter. But like if he puts my vitamins away? I don't take my vitamins for a month. I forget that they're there.

Speaker 1 21:01

Like you know, they is so crazy I don't remember if I already took my vitamins. Is that right?

Speaker 2 21:05

That's working memory. It freaking blew my mind.

Speaker 1 21:08

I was like I thought maybe it was the beginning of dementia, but I was like I think I took them. I don't remember. It was a couple hours ago.

Speaker 2 21:15

Yeah, it happens to me all the time. I'll be like did I take that? I comes in like the old people ones where they just like divide it out. Right. Use those for your vitamins, because then if it's gone for Tuesday, you know you took it.

Speaker 1 21:31

Yeah but see, that's something like I don't want to do. If I travel, I set up the pill stuff but, I just take them all one. I don't know. I just I don't like to do. I can't explain it, but it's how about this. What about? Is there a symptom that's? Is it ADHD or is it also like adult autism? Have you heard of that one yet? Like, how do you know the difference between that?

Speaker 2 21:53

Well, they're kind of like a Venn diagram. There's a lot of overlap, so it can be very tricky. I would say, if you suspect either, getting evaluated is really, really helpful.

Speaker 1 22:03

But I don't want to go like. I went online, took a little quiz and it was like it said that I had. I already got the psychiatrist told me.

Speaker 2 22:17

I had adhd, but the online quiz said I might have the adult autism okay, but I don't, you know, it's an online quiz.

Speaker 1 22:20

I've taken those online quizzes yeah, I mean it's tough.

Speaker 2 22:23

I'm not an expert on autism. I do have, uh, autistic family members and you know the community is so overlapping because a lot of people with ADHD have both. We call that odd-HD now.

Speaker 1 22:34

Oh, I never heard that before. What's that Odd-ADHD?

Speaker 2 22:38

Yeah, au, like I don't know if I'm getting the acronym right, but yeah, that is something that they're seeing more and more. I actually think that years from now, we'll realize like these neurodiverse brains don't always fit in one box or the other. But there are a lot of symptoms that you know typically are put in the autism box, but many people with ADHD experience like getting overstimulated. I don't know if that happens to you.

Speaker 2 23:04

It happens to me a lot where like certain environments where, when I, when I, was like taking my kids to the bounce house place when they were little and there's like the noise from the bounce house and screaming kids and like someone's talking to me over here. Like I could handle it when I was in the moment my I would be exhausted, like my brain would be right parties, new Year's Eve parties, fourth of July parties I don't need them yeah.

Speaker 1 23:25

I don't. I have to go to a lot of functions and I just dread that stuff Like you're exhausted, afterwards Exhausted.

Speaker 2 23:32

I'm pretty extroverted, but I still feel like I need to recover from things like that. And that, I think, has more to do again with that filtering system in our brain. It's not filtering out everything that's going on around us in the same way someone else's brain is, so we're like it's letting in more noise. It's letting in more noise, it's letting in more light. We're feeling all of that more, and so we get overstimulated more easily. That is typically under the autism umbrella as like an official symptom, but there's overlap there.

Speaker 1 23:59

Yeah, I used to. I remember being a kid going I'm making this all about me. I'm sorry, but I remember going to old Tucson. Do you ever been to old Tucson? It's like old Western yep, when I was a kid and the the guns was too loud I never liked fireworks. I never wanted anything, all that stuff. But, um, so this book, is this your first book? Yeah, and, and when did it come out and how do you get it?

Speaker 2 24:20

almost exactly a year ago, oh wow it is uh on amazon. Barnesandnoblecom target a lot of independent bookstores have it, it's pretty.

Speaker 1 24:28

Is it self-published?

Speaker 2 24:29

no, no, no I I went with a traditional publisher wow, that's great.

Speaker 1 24:33

And so what's your background like? Where did you like you? What's your? You're not a doctor, or are you a doctor? So you're an? I just called you an adhd expert. But what, like you studied?

Speaker 2 24:44

you have a psychology degree I do have a psychology degree. I did not get it to study ADHD. I think I got it because I was like what is going on in my brain? I don't know what's happening here, but I've always been interested in how people so you felt different your whole life. Oh, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 24:58

Me too.

Speaker 2 24:58

Yeah, I just felt and I couldn't pinpoint it. There were times when I was going through things in my early adulthood where I would like talk to my doctor and they'd be like I think you're anxious, I think this is anxiety and I was like I'm not, though like sometimes I get like situationally I'll be anxious for, you know, a big interview or something like that, but I didn't feel like that fit. I didn't feel like. I felt like I was depressed sometimes, but not like overall are you okay being alone?

Speaker 2 25:25

um, it depends. Now that I'm around people so much, I like it a lot more.

Speaker 1 25:29

You like being alone. A lot more being alone.

Speaker 2 25:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like I'm kind of that ambivert personality where I like I do need people, but sometimes I need to be by myself. I can self-entertain pretty easily, but yeah, I definitely felt really different. I would even have people be like why do you think that way? Like, why are you like this? And I'm like I don't know. Do you have a lot of friends? I was. I had a decent amount of friends, some of them. Friendships didn't always last very long. I felt like I would have really intense friendships and then there would be like a miscommunication. I was really bad at remembering people's birthdays you, if I moved, it was kind of like that person disappeared, even though they didn't mean a lot to me. I was bad about keeping me growing up?

Speaker 1 26:17

did you move a lot growing up?

Speaker 2 26:18

I moved when I was in like right before high school. I actually moved to arizona from michigan and then I moved for college and then I moved after college and then I came back here.

Speaker 1 26:27

So you went to high school where chandler- Chandler High.

Speaker 2 26:30

So did I? No way, really. Yeah, oh my gosh, get out of here. That's wild. What why?

Speaker 1 26:36

You're a wolf.

Speaker 2 26:37

Yep Back when it was the only high school in Chandler yeah.

Speaker 1 26:40

I went to Chandler Junior High. Okay, so I went to Knox. So this is I went to Knox Elementary School. So in fifth grade I in tucson. Okay, sixth grade I was in chandler. Then you go to challenge your high and it's seventh, eighth and ninth grade challenge your high. Then, chandler, high is 10th grade, right. And then after 10th grade I moved to los angeles for 11th grade then then I moved to san diego for 12th grade. Okay, it sucks to be moving around like that all the time yeah but my close friends are here, you know here.

Speaker 2 27:10

I had a very similar experience because I went to Catholic school in Michigan and it ended at sixth grade. I went to seventh grade at like the public junior high in the town. I lived at moved here for eighth grade, um which I went to Anderson junior high, which was also seven, eight, nine so I felt so ripped off because I was like I'm gonna be in high school and then I was like moved here and I'm like, no, nope you got an extra year junior high and then I went to Chandler High, so it was a lot of transition and I think that made it really hard.

Speaker 2 27:40

Uh, but and you know, that was before we had cell phones you know, it was in the pager era, but even as an adult, um, I I was very close with, I think, the people that like got me, but like if I had an acquaintance or a friend where I felt like I just you know, kind of never got past the small talk phase with them, I kind of had no problem like leaving them behind when what?

Speaker 1 28:03

about as an adult. Do you have new friends now?

Speaker 2 28:05

yeah, yeah, I'm pretty social, yeah me too it's kind of weird.

Speaker 1 28:08

I I have a couple friends from when I was growing up in chandler, since I've known him since sixth, seventh grade, pretty close, and then nothing in the later years of life. No friends from college, a couple of friends when I got in the radio career, but not nothing really. But now as as a I call myself, like now as a grown-up, I I have like two or three new friends that I just adore, yeah, I love hanging out with them.

Speaker 2 28:32

It's weird.

Speaker 1 28:33

I've never had that before. Oh, that's awesome. I don't know if that's an ADHD thing or maybe it's kind of weird. I feel like, like sometimes I feel like I'm not as old as I am. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 28:49

That is actually so wild that you said that because when I was taking my courses to become an adhd coach, one of the first modules they were like people with adhd look and act younger, even as adults. I was like what, how do we look and act younger? You?

ADHD in Relationships and Parenting

Speaker 2 29:00

know that makes no sense to me, um, but I do think it is some of that like curiosity. That is part of our brain. Like, like I mentioned earlier, our brain is driven by interest, not importance. That's part of our brain. Like I mentioned earlier, our brain is driven by interest, not importance. That's what gets our brain activated. That's what gets the dopamine going. So, because of that, we're always curious and learning new things and wanting to have new experiences, and I just think we're more open to how the culture is evolving. You have kids, right, they're all teenagers.

Speaker 1 29:30

They're 22, 21, and 19.

Speaker 2 29:33

Yeah, and I bet you're like the cool dad that like knows kind of more like what's going on with them, right?

Speaker 1 29:38

But sometimes I have this moment where I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm a dad. Am I ready to be a dad?

Speaker 2 29:45

Yeah, like you, don't felt like I was running around, Like I'm a mom People think I'm responsible, my kids get to school on time but I was like they're going to find out. They're going to find out that this is not real.

Speaker 1 29:56

That's exactly how I feel Like I can't believe sometimes that I'm a dad. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me, Like I don't think I'm mature enough to be a dad.

Speaker 1 30:11

It like I want to. I try to. I now I I make an effort to parent right. I make an effort to have a relationship with my kids and sometimes I take each one of them and I try to give them wisdom that I have. But I don't think it comes out that way. Like my father always had great gems of wisdom for me that were fantastic and and it doesn't, I don't think it comes out the same way when I give it to them like when.

Speaker 1 30:28

I pass. Are my kids that? Oh, dad used to say this all the time. Dad was right about this.

Speaker 2 30:33

Like.

Speaker 1 30:33

I don't know if I have that, because I feel like I'm still them.

Speaker 2 30:36

Yeah. You know, but I think that you probably are guiding them in a way that you just can't see right now. I think that you know, just from talking to a lot of parents, I think we all feel like that to a big degree and usually you see it more and like how you notice them interacting with other people.

Speaker 2 30:58

You see your wisdom there versus them telling you that that they're picking up on it. But I mean not to be like a parasocial stalker from from listening to the radio and hearing about your family, it seems like you. You have strong relationships.

Speaker 1 31:07

I think so. I think it's like you as strong relationships. I think so. I think I have strong relationships and your kids like you as a person. Yeah, I think so. A lot of dads can say that. Well like, sometimes I get my feelings hurt when, like, my kids go hang out with their friends and then their friend's dad, yeah, I'm like, hey, you never come hang out with me. Aw, how many kids do you have?

Speaker 2 31:24

I have three.

Speaker 1 31:25

And does ADHD? Is it genetic? Can it go down the line?

Speaker 2 31:28

It's about the statistics are. 85% of kids with ADHD have a parent that has ADHD. Two out of my three are diagnosed with ADHD.

Speaker 1 31:37

Oh wow, did you diagnose them, like you knew.

Speaker 2 31:40

Not really. So I was actually diagnosed after my daughter was that's sort of how I realized I had ADHD was filling out her paperwork, I was like they're talking about me too, and when I you know she was a lot younger when she was diagnosed. It's been many, many years now, but I remember thinking like I'm not going to be able to help her and really like let this awesome kid I was seeing in front of me like live up to who she was meant to be if I don't fix my own shit oh wow I don't know if you need to edit that or not, but I you know, when I went through that process, it was a big awakening for me because I really had context for all the things that I was struggling with for so long but didn't really understand.

Speaker 2 32:27

I had been very into like personal development and trying to like fix what I felt like were things that were a problem. Uh, and then I had this like child who had some things that she was really struggling with but also had like the biggest personality of anyone I've ever met. Like. She had these amazing qualities but they were so blocked by the other things that were giving her issues at school and things like that, so has she been able to cope.

Speaker 1 32:50

Now You've been able to help her.

Speaker 2 32:51

She is amazing. I mean, every kid has their kid things that they do.

Speaker 1 32:57

She's 16.

Speaker 2 32:58

But she is really blossomed. She is such a doer. I feel like she gets a lot of really great feedback from coaches and for the people that she works for.

Speaker 1 33:08

Oh, she has me.

Speaker 2 33:09

Yeah, she is such a problem solver. She's like such a busy bee worker.

Speaker 1 33:12

What sport is she in?

Speaker 2 33:13

She's a cheerleader, oh wow, yeah, so she is. She's thriving. I think that a lot of that is just empowering her to live into the things that she's strong on and, like, let go of expectations around things that don't matter as much, oh, that's good, let me ask you this about ADHD.

Speaker 1 33:31

And it's so funny because I knew I was obviously. I knew I was going to interview you and I started to be self-aware of certain things and so I thought today something happened. I go, I'm going to ask her if this is ADHD. So, like I said, one of the things I tried to do was get my yeah yeahs out before I came here so I could be calm. And where I came here so I could be calm, and I was on the treadmill and I put together a playlist of music that I like and I'm either one or the other. I can either listen to the same song a hundred times in a row or I can listen to a hundred songs just the beginning parts my favorite parts.

Speaker 1 34:03

And today it was all my favorite parts of songs.

Speaker 2 34:05

I would just go.

Speaker 1 34:05

I'd start the treadmill like this part of the song. Go to the next part. Go to the next part. Go to the next part Are those symptoms.

Speaker 2 34:10

Yeah, I mean honestly. You're describing exactly how it is in the car with me and my daughter. We're like literally over and, over and over again on one song, or it's like skip this part. It's boring.

Speaker 1 34:25

Next part, you know I can listen negative to have ADHD.

Speaker 2 34:29

I mean it really depends on your environment and your circumstances. It definitely can be for people that don't have the context of why certain things are wrong, for people you know that may have found themselves in a job or career that doesn't fit their strengths that come with their brain and has a lot of tasks that are requiring high level focus all of the time.

Speaker 2 34:52

If you're in a career that's really boring, you're probably going to have a hard time sticking with. That that's true, and you can experience a lot of like you know job hopping or you know the relationship thing you brought up. That can be a problem if you don't understand how you operate Sleep, oh my gosh, sleep is a big topic is it? Um, sleep is so tough because the better you're sleeping with adhd, the better your brain's gonna function are you?

Speaker 1 35:20

do you monitor your sleep? I am obsessed with sleep yeah, okay, so give me tips. What do you mean? What do you do?

Speaker 2 35:25

I mean now I have to do like 100 things to sleep. Good, and if they're all working, they work. But to back it up a little bit, something that is really hard for people with ADHD is kind of like getting our brain to power down at night. Oftentimes, like as soon as we close our eyes, we've got new ideas, we're like thinking about the next day, we're planning a business, we're having anxiety about being on time tomorrow, Like there's all these things going on. Our brains are so busy with ADHD. So I think it's really important to like process some of that before you go to sleep.

Sleep Struggles and Daily Strategies

Speaker 2 36:00

I like to give myself like time to kind of transition out of my day and for me that usually like I have to pick the first thing I'm doing the next day. I need to pick the first thing I'm doing the next day. I need to know what that is so that my brain's not thinking about that when I'm trying to sleep. I need to like kind of do an activity that's not super boring but not super stimulating, if that makes sense. Like I can't watch some crazy documentary right before bed, because then I'm going to go on Reddit and read about the crazy documentary and then I'm going to be thinking about it and I'm not going to be able to sleep. So I have to do something kind of like low-key, calmer than that, and then to actually go to sleep, I take magnesium.

Speaker 2 36:41

I have earpods with a soundscape in my ears every night. It's really hard for me to sleep if they're not charged which is also a problem with ADHD because sometimes I forget to put them back in the morning. I have to fall asleep before my husband because he will like be moving around and waking me up, and if all of that is working I can sleep pretty good. But it's tough. I have teenagers. I'm waiting for them to get home, like, and then I, you know that for them to get home, like, and then I, you know that just kind of disrupts everything, and then I feel the impact.

Speaker 1 37:12

Wear an aura ring or a whoop or do you. My watch tracks my sleep oh, it does, and so do you success. Do you think you sleep pretty well it depends.

Speaker 2 37:21

Yeah, it depends on what's going on in my life, like also being female hormonally, like I've noticed different patterns. But yeah, and it also depends on, like how, if I'm doing all the things I know that help, if I'm exercising, if I'm like not eating right before bedtime, if I, if one little thing kind of falls, apart.

Speaker 1 37:38

Exactly like you, yeah, tough, exactly like that. I don't like to watch anything. I'm doing that whole thing now where I'm trying to get away from my phone an hour or two from the bed. But there's just so much always happening. I'm trying to not be addicted to my phone.

Speaker 2 37:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1 37:56

And that's a tough one.

Speaker 2 37:56

It's tough.

Speaker 1 37:57

It's really tough because we're so connected and a couple times. I was just talking about this on my radio show the other day. Whenever I get away from my phone for a couple hours when I come back, I really didn't miss much. Nope. Whenever I get away from my phone for a couple hours when I come back, I really didn't miss much, nope you know, Except for one time. I went away for three days and I didn't put my phone away for three days and I missed a whole bunch.

Speaker 2 38:15

Yeah yeah, striking that balance is hard. I think that people with ADHD can benefit a lot from having some roles around that for themselves. Like for me, I really try to read at night or watch something really like kind of familiar.

Speaker 1 38:31

I think reading really helps clear the brain. Yeah, reading is the best, but it's hard for me to do that.

Speaker 2 38:34

Yeah, sometimes I fall asleep reading, which I think isn't necessarily a bad thing, because then I can just sleep Do you drink alcohol. I like alcohol, but I'm trying not to drink very much of it because, especially as I've gotten older, I definitely that's what my watch tells me has the biggest impact on my sleep.

Speaker 1 38:51

Yeah, big time. Well, what about, like when you back in your days, whenever you were partying and you would drink, could you see, did you see, effects of AD? Like when I look back, like my college days? I don't know if I had, I mean I'm sure I had it but I don't know, you just live in life.

Speaker 2 39:15

Yeah, I didn't know that I wasn't getting things done right. I don't know, is there something like that? Like, did you have that? I mean, I definitely feel like I relate to just getting through college on vibes.

Speaker 2 39:19

Um, I went to Northern Arizona. Um, I had a lot of fun in college, but I did also drink a lot and I, you know, I I passed. I probably didn't do as well as I could have. Uh, it's hard to separate, like what was the? You know, I passed. I probably didn't do as well as I could have. It's hard to separate, like what was the problem? You know what I mean. Like if it was drinking too much in college or if it was not sleeping, or all of those things.

Speaker 1 39:38

I always had this thing where I was like I wish I could go back, because now I know how important it was. Like at the time I was just I don't know what I was doing, but I mean that part of it, I thought it's because I was 17. Yeah, like man, I need to, I need to go back. This is important but it's too late. I'm already this far down the road, I can't go back. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 40:03

yeah, I mean I talked to a lot of people that were diagnosed later in life or people that were diagnosed younger but like really didn't understand what was going on with them, and they sometimes have a lot of grief for like, oh, if I had known this, I could have done this differently. But I think that kind of applies to a lot of humans, whether it's adhd or not, right like we don't know what we know until we know it, and sometimes that information finds us later in life.

Speaker 2 40:27

So I do think it's better, if we like, focus on the future versus. I mean, we got to heal stuff from the past, but there's nothing we can do to go back and change that. Um, and there's probably good lessons and things you learned from.

Speaker 1 40:39

You know the mistakes you've had too right, you seem very calm, though you know like I'm trying.

Speaker 2 40:44

I'm trying not to move it depends on what day you find me.

Speaker 1 40:50

You said earlier so you'd listened to my radio show, right? And then earlier, before we sat down, you started to say something. I was like wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2 40:57

So you said, like you've listened to the show enough to know about ADHD, me, my personality yeah, I mean you mention ADHD a lot, I think actually I haven't been listening as regularly now because I was listening a lot when I was driving my teenagers because it was appropriate for them. But now I've got my little 11-year-old who, like you know he doesn't need to be listening to a second date update, but I was listening this morning because I knew I was going to be talking to you and you mentioned ADHD, did I?

Speaker 1 41:27

mention it this morning.

Speaker 2 41:28

Yeah, someone called in and talked about like they have a partner that they appreciate because they have ADHD and it's hard for them to like make meals for themselves and do things like that yeah and that came up.

Speaker 2 41:38

But you know I had been listening to you for a long time. You were always my like commute to work show and you listening to you for a long time. You were always my like commute to work show and you guys made me late for work a lot because I'd be in the car and I'd be like I gotta find out what's happening on the roses, I can't go in there, um. But you know it was interesting as a listener, like hearing you kind of slip it in, talk about it here and there, and then once I was like getting my diagnosis and understanding adhd and then moving into the field, I was like this makes sense, like and that's something I try not to do, it too much unless people have disclosed that they have ADHD but like, oftentimes I meet people and when they find out what I do, they're like oh, I have ADHD too and I'm kind of like, yeah, I knew it, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 42:20

Like you say what you do, how would you classify what you do?

Speaker 2 42:23

so like the work I'm doing. So I do focus on writing quite a bit, so I have my book. I also do articles and things like that. I do a lot of speaking engagements. Really, what I am, I feel like, is an advocator and educator on ADHD. I do talks to organizations to help them understand their ADHD employees and how to accommodate them. I do some coaching, so I work with individuals and groups as well.

Speaker 1 42:53

So I might have somebody on the show that has worse ADHD than me so there's a way to talk to them to communicate with them.

Speaker 2 43:02

What's a?

Speaker 1 43:02

tip for that. For what someone should do, yeah how do you talk to someone that has ad? How do you coach someone that has adhd?

Finding Strength in Your Brain Differences

Speaker 2 43:09

so coaching is really a lot about helping guide the client to strategies that are going to work for them.

Speaker 2 43:14

So usually if I'm going to work with a client, I'm going to figure out a little bit about what their goals are and I'm going to talk to them about like kind of the outcomes they're looking for, and then I'm going to ask them a lot of questions and help them kind of get to the bottom of what's not working and create pathways that will work for them, and then that that's all coaching right. That's sort of the modality with ADHD coaching. I'm also trained to look at that through like the ADHD lens. So a person might come in and they're trying to build a new business or something like that, and they've read all these books that this is the way to do it right, and they're like, really like I'm not doing it, but they're really going to need to get rid of that framework that was built for people with more neurotypical brains and build a framework that makes sense for their ADHD brain, and I'm there to help them find those answers.

Speaker 1 44:06

You know what's funny? Because when you say that, I think about how every morning we have a meeting before the show starts and I go over with everybody where. So we have a show sheet of where things are going to happen at certain times. And I don't know why maybe it's the ADHD brain but I'll say we're doing this at 6.05. And you would think that I'm gonna go here's what we're doing at 620. Instead, I go to 830 and then I'll go to 720 and I go. I go to these different times and everyone follows me. Now they get it because I, but I'm sometimes I'll go. Why am? Why am I? Why can't I just go in order? Yeah, like, does that make sense?

Speaker 2 44:40

yeah, our brains are not linear brains, our brains are like I always say we don't think in a straight line, we think in a spider web.

Speaker 1 44:46

So yeah, boy, that is good because man, my, my wife, frustrated with my calendar.

Speaker 2 44:51

When.

Speaker 1 44:52

I put something on my phone. I might have a meeting at one o'clock on Wednesday and I'll make it for 11 on Thursday. I know exactly when it is, I know where I gotta be, but I and she just does not understand it. What about do you do this with your alarm clock? I have a weird system for my alarm clock. So I get up at 3.15 in the morning, but I set my clock so it says 3.45.

Speaker 2 45:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1 45:16

But it's really 3.15. So when I get up it drives my wife crazy Not now, but she's used to it. But that way when I get up and I go brush my teeth it says 3 45 on the clock. But when I get up to go brush my teeth I'm like oh, it's 320.

Speaker 2 45:29

I'm way ahead of myself yeah, and you're excited you have bonus time now. Yes, but what's happening? There is, uh, I mentioned the adhd brain is motivated by interest. It's also motivated by urgency. So when you're waking up at 3 45, your brain's a little bit like oh crap, I'm late. Yeah, so you need that urgency. Your brain's releasing dopamine and that gets you out of bed. And then, once you realize you have time, you're like okay, it's cool, but the problem is sometimes we figure out our own tricks Right and then they don't work anymore.

Speaker 1 45:56

This is so good. Yeah, you know what's funny. It all makes sense.

Speaker 2 46:06

I I totally feel not alone right now. Oh good, that was a huge goal of mine, because when I realized I had ADHD, I thought I was like the only corporate mom of three that was dealing with this. And then I started having conversations with people.

Speaker 1 46:13

But you don't want to change anything, do you I?

Speaker 2 46:15

don't Not now.

Speaker 1 46:16

I don't either.

Speaker 2 46:18

You know I might have had a different answer if you asked me at a different point in my life. But now that I understand my strengths, my values, I stopped kind of like doing things just because I should and the world was telling me this is the right way and I started doing things in a way that worked for me. I appreciate how my brain is wired. It would be impossible for me to say I needed to change having ADHD. When I look at my kids that have ADHD and I think they're amazing.

Speaker 2 46:43

Like I don't want them to change. Having ADHD when I look at my kids that have ADHD, I think they're amazing. I don't want them to change. I want them to learn about themselves and, you know, really be able to thrive. But I don't want them to change. I don't want them to have a different brain. I wouldn't ask them to be different.

Speaker 1 46:53

Can you remember conversations?

Speaker 2 46:55

It depends if they were good conversations.

Speaker 1 46:59

Let's say I had a meeting with somebody and I had great news, and then I was going to tell Rich my partner you're not going to believe this. I had this great meeting with so-and-so. What happened and I remember like chunks of it. I remember all of it, or like on the way here, I had this great meeting about a possible investment that I wanted to do. And I can't wait to tell my wife, and I kind of forgot about it already.

Speaker 2 47:25

I know I'm gonna not tell her the important stuff.

Speaker 1 47:26

Does that make sense? Like I'm gonna miss chunks of it. I didn't write it down I don't know. I feel. I feel like I'm gonna remember it, but I don't.

Speaker 2 47:30

I don't remember anything yeah, sometimes we trust our brains more than we should. Yes, yeah, it is. I think that's what's so interesting about adhd it's not that we can't remember things, but sometimes we're not always remembering the right things. Like you might remember, like that you really liked that guy's outfit or his shoes. But like the important, like when do I need to, like you know, do this thing to make this other thing happen? Sometimes that's not clicking as much because in that moment that wasn't as interesting as the other stuff that was going on in that conversation.

Speaker 1 47:59

What's the thing in your book? Uh, your other thing, hummingbird.

Speaker 2 48:01

You're a sort of hummingbird company so the name of my coaching practice is Hummingbird ADHD, hummingbird ADHD.

Speaker 1 48:07

Yeah, yeah, that's funny, I couldn't remember the ADHD part. Why Hummingbird?

Speaker 2 48:12

This is kind of a long story. I'll try to make it a little bit shorter. But when I was doing my coaching certification classes, I had started them in 2019, and then I was still working at the time, so I had taken a break, and then the next class I took was in March 2020. And so all of a sudden, I'm taking this course and all my kids are home.

Speaker 2 48:34

Like my house is chaotic, and so I ended up taking a lot of the calls in my backyard and there were all these like hummingbirds flying around around me, and I got really curious about hummingbirds during one of the calls what I should have been paying attention and I was sidebarring, googling hummingbirds and I found out they have really interesting, unique brains, um, and that kind of all came together for me. I thought it was like a cool moment to understand like these are cool creatures, right, they're very unique and I'm glad they exist, and that's how I feel about the ADHD. I thought it was like a cool moment to understand Like these are cool creatures, right, they're very unique and I'm glad they exist, and that's how I feel about the ADHD brain. It's unique, it needs to be here and we just need to understand it better sometimes.

Speaker 1 49:14

That's great, so people can hire you, go to Hummingbird ADHD or go get this book.

Speaker 2 49:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1 49:22

And in there they can hire. You Come into corporations and try to. Here's how you deal with someone that has adhd mind or coach individuals or coach groups or sneak places and doing it all because I saw this morning you know I was. I saw you post this morning on instagram. They had all these things today and I was like, oh man, is she gonna cancel my interview?

Speaker 2 49:42

you did stuff already today yeah, I spoke at a summit uh for adhd adults today earlier, which was really fun. That was online, though, so I didn't even have to leave my house. But yeah, I do webinars for corporations, I coach private clients. I also have a community uh for adults with adhd and we do a lot of like getting together on a zoom and planning our week so that we have accountability okay.

Speaker 1 50:02

So so for me, if I don't know, if I have adhd, but I I'm over zooms, I can't do zoom yeah, yeah is that an adhd thing?

Speaker 2 50:08

because you know I I work on zoom, so I don't like to do a lot of other zooms, I really prefer in person um, like this podcast people.

Speaker 1 50:17

Oh yeah, I'll do a zoom. I don't know.

Speaker 2 50:18

Yeah, you gotta come in person is always better for me, but, like uh, usually most of my coaching is done over zoom right now, just because of I coach clients everywhere oh okay, but do you have big groups too, like everyone? Yeah, I do group coaching and things like that.

Speaker 1 50:34

Yeah, so you'll have like today.

Speaker 2 50:35

You spoke for how many people on your webinar um, I wasn't running the webinar so I don't know on the back end, but I think it was a couple hundred logged into that today you have a beginning, middle end to a speech, like you have a here's I have different talks.

Speaker 2 50:47

So today it was a panel, so it was more interview based, kind of like doing a podcast with several people, basically. But for if I go into a corporation or something like that, it depends on what they want me to talk about. But I have, you know, a talk on understanding ADHD at work, so understanding how your employees operate, what accommodations work for them, how employees can accommodate themselves. And then I have some things on entrepreneurship that I speak on. I have a really good talk about um, adhd and over optimization and how we, like, can go down rabbit holes and try to over optimize and uh, that's a really fun one that I like to present to like groups of entrepreneurs and people that are kind of interested.

Speaker 2 51:31

So in this short amount of time you've done quite a bit yeah right, I mean, I mean the book, webinars and all in 2020, since 2020 yeah, I mean I I started kind of dipping my toes in about 2019, but yeah, wow, congratulations for.

Speaker 1 51:45

So how would you rate this whole podcast today? As far as the ADHD Was it, was this a good podcast it was good.

Speaker 2 51:50

Yeah, I mean most of the time I am talking to people with ADHD, so I like that better.

Speaker 1 51:57

So you would say right now, in this interview I told you that I had a therapist tell me, I have ADHD. You would say to me right now that I have ADHD.

Speaker 2 52:04

I am not a doctor.

Speaker 1 52:06

That's okay.

Speaker 2 52:06

Just for like legal purposes. But I think the signs are there.

Speaker 1 52:13

You know what I'm happy about it. Yeah, I'm happy about it. Well, thank you for coming on the podcast.

Speaker 2 52:17

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 52:19

This is a whole new thing for me and this is such a great cover and such a great name. It all makes sense now.

Speaker 2 52:23

Amazon wherever right, okay, thank you so much thanks okay, so welcome to our podcast.

Speaker 1 52:34

This is a little bit different today, because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show you.