Gadgets Can’t Fix Health, But This Can!

Boost your heart health with simple, science-backed habits that actually work. 

Preventive cardiologist, Dr. Jack Wolfson, shares how sleep, clean food, movement, stress management, and toxin reduction improve heart function and lower cardiovascular risk.

Learn practical tips to track lab markers like hs-CRP, omega-3, and glutathione, plus daily signals that show progress. 

Say goodbye to wellness fads and focus on strategies that deliver real results.

Watch, share, and comment with the one habit you’ll change this week to improve heart health.

Chapters

• 0:05 Setting The Stage: Spin-Off Format
• 0:23 Hydrogen Water Hype And Headaches
• 0:50 Mineral Waters, Sulfur, And Detox
• 3:01 Cans, Plastics, And Hormone Disruption
• 5:58 Biohacks Versus Foundations
• 6:46 Creatine, Ancestral Eating, And Labs
• 8:25 TPE Dialysis And Plastics Risk
• 10:56 Why The Cardiologist Lives In Tents
• 14:50 Unschooling, Family, And Pushback
• 18:07 Stress, Women’s Heart Risks, And Mindset
• 20:43 Measuring Progress Without More Radiation
• 23:08 Virtual Care And Team-Based Support
• 24:12 Root Causes: Toxins, Food, And Sunlight
• 26:37 Alcohol, Statins, And Longevity Choices
• 29:06 Clothing, Plastics, And Everyday Exposures
• 31:40 The Paleocardiologist And Free Book
• 34:20 Environment Change As Medicine
• 36:13 Shilajit, Coffee Rituals, And Minerals
• 39:29 Tent Life Tradeoffs And Purpose
• 42:08 Mold Testing, Moving, And Reality
• 45:08 Seafood Priority And Metals Myths
• 48:21 Love, Home, And Multi-Generational Living
• 51:28 Social Media, Critics, And Mission
• 54:34 Local Coffee, Raw Milk, And Practical Tips

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:05

Okay, so welcome to our podcast. This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show. This is hydrogen water. What do you think of hydrogen water? But wait, what's your take on hydrogen water?

SPEAKER_00: 0:27

Um, I like it. I like it. I don't think it's like the next greatest thing, but um Is it a scam? I'm okay with it. I mean, there's just not a lot of evidence that it really works. But again, like ideally you would say, well, you know, I feel like this, and now I did this, and now I feel like this.

SPEAKER_01: 0:46

But you're drinking that. You know, what what do you know about Pellegrino?

SPEAKER_00: 0:50

So Pellegrino um is obviously it's an Italian sparkling water, and it comes from Italy, and this particular water is the highest source of sulfur of any other water that I at least that I know of. So sulfur is a is a detoxifier. Uh sulfur is just if you remember back to high school, the periodic table, right? You got oxygen and hydrogen and you know, etc. You have all that, you know, all those things. And sulfur helps to detoxify and make certain things like glutathione. If you've ever had a glutathione IV, our body makes its own glutathione and it does so with sulfur. Sulfur makes amino acids, proteins, helps us build muscle. And then the other thing is that sulfur is heavily found on the inside of a blood vessel. So it makes the blood vessels super slick, like Teflon. So given the fact that we want to get sulfur into our diet, where else do we get sulfur from? Um, eggs, right? The smell of eggs. That's the sulfur smell. The onions, garlic, they're very high in sulfur. One of my favorite supplements is a unique form of seaweed. And when I heard that it was so good for blood vessel health, because it's billed for that, and a lot of cardiologists use it, then that particular product, I knew as soon as I heard about it, it was going to be high in sulfur, and that's exactly what it is. And that's what you want. And you want that. Or, you know, if you want something, you know, someone takes an Epsom salt bath, right? That's magnesium sulfate after you're in the gym, or if you know, aches and pains, magnesium salt baths, and that's what it is. It's magnesium sulfate.

SPEAKER_01: 2:29

How many of those will you drink in a day?

SPEAKER_00: 2:31

No, I mean, I don't drink them necessarily for medicinal value, but I mean, if I drink, I mean, let's just say if I have one a day, you know, on average. And there's other, you know, Icelandic is another really good sparkling mineral water. It comes from Iceland, so you would assume it's pretty clean. Uh Perrier, you know, Perrier, I remember back in the day, Perrier had some like contamination issues. I want to say this goes back to like 20, 30 years ago, so I've never really matriculated towards that, but uh there's there's a lot of good stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 3:01

So when it comes to this hydrogen water, so here we give you the story on these cans on this on this hydrogen water. So I'm into the biohacking space, if that's what they call it. I want to try to live as healthy as I can. Yeah, and I was following Gary Brecka. Right. Right. I've heard him. Okay, and he's this guy, and he has this hydrogen water thing. You buy this thing for$400, you hit a button, it makes the bubbles. It takes about 10 minutes. So I would do it in the morning, hit the button, go do a quick light stretch, come back, drink it. And then, of course, within three weeks, the thing broke, right? I can't get anybody to fix it. Wow. And then now I see him, he doesn't talk about those anymore. Yeah, but him and his son started these hydrogen tablets. So it's the same thing, you take these tablets, put them in the water, you gotta wait 10-15 minutes for them to dissolve. And I'm like, it and he says there's all this science on hydrogen water, how good it is for you. And I just found it to be a pain in the ass. Then this woman reaches out to me. You can't buy this. This is from Australia. You cannot buy this in the United States, and it's canned hydrogen water. And she gives me the spiel about how good it is for you. And I'm like, I just pop it open and drink, I don't have to wait 10 minutes. So she sent me a couple cases, so we drink it all the time. I like it. I've talked to a couple doctors that like it, and I was just curious to what you think about it.

SPEAKER_00: 4:13

All right. Well, if I'm gonna uh be critical, which which is what I'm here to do, please do. Not only here for that, but to be critical. That's why God has me here on earth is to be critical of stuff like that. But one thing I don't like about cans is that cans are lined with plastic.

SPEAKER_01: 4:32

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00: 4:33

So cans, this isn't the old tin can or aluminum can days. They're all lined with plastic. And the plastic is there to maybe prevent metals from leaching into the water, from the you know, can, you know, to rust, and they're all lined with a coating of plastic. And then the plastic, of course, interferes with hormones, etc. And high levels of plastic are linked with cardiovascular disease. So I tend to avoid cans whenever possible. Um I'm not here to insult Gary Brecca uh because I guess we can all say, hey, you know, well, we all got bills to pay, right? We all have bills to pay to be. I got nothing to pay.

SPEAKER_01: 5:14

I'm a fan of the guy.

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

And Gary has his bills to pay, but I think one concern is that, yeah, we just the industry is full of people who jump from one to another who's who's paying them. And I'm not saying that I'm holier than now, but I really try and be, and that if I'm going to get behind a company, number one, I want to know the product is gonna work, of course, and it doesn't break down after a few, you know, after a few weeks. And then it's comp you know, a company I'm gonna be with for a long time. You know, you're you're one of the uh older timers in the industry, of course, and you know how advertisers work, and you know, you support an advertiser when they pay you to do so, but uh I think we need to be careful really about the products that we're endorsing.

SPEAKER_01: 5:58

Well, I heard Huberman, he won't use a product, he'll use a product for two years before he endorses it.

SPEAKER_00: 6:02

That's I mean, that's obviously a pretty good policy to do so. And I think really it's also just amount, you know, that the the thing that I always try and push is that there's a foundation, and we always got to hit that foundation and all these different biohacks that you talk about. The biohacks are kind of at the end of the game. We really need to say, well, how are we sleeping? How are we getting outdoors and sunshine exposure? Of course, the foods that we're eating and how quality they are. We want to make sure that we're moving. We want to make sure that we're our mindset is good, we find our happy. So that's always like those basics. You can't, you can't biohack your way out of not sleeping or not getting sunshine or a lousy diet, as you know.

SPEAKER_01: 6:45

Well, you know, it's funny. I was shown my my sister, my sister, um, I was trying to get her to take creatine. Do you believe in creatine? Uh, that's another one that I know, you know, it's uh the orphan just to say yes and no, but it's like everything everything, it's like since I saw you last week, it's like you like rock my world with all this information. That's why I should be on the podcast. But it's like everything that I've learned or got from social media, you debunk right away, which is great. But go ahead. What are you gonna say about creating?

SPEAKER_00: 7:13

Well, I you know, it's just what it's funny when you insult creatine, like we can talk about water, nobody's like, oh, hydrogen water, yeah, I guess, you know, whatever. What you know, people seem to hold creatine so close to themselves, you know, they they really identify with creatine. So if you insult it, or you go against it, or you kind of point out, you know, it is a synthetic lab-made organic acid, amino acid-like compound. Do we really need that? Do we really need this synthetic? You get it from the beef supplements. What if we get it from the bison supplements? From the bison supplements. What if we get it from the yeah, from the food that we eat? Now, somebody will say, yeah, but you're not gonna be able to get 10 grams of creatine from a bison organ supplement. And I would say, I don't care. I'm not trying to get 10 grams of creatine. I'm trying to eat like our ancestors did, and I feel that that's gonna be the best answer for us. I'm really trying to get away from the lab-made stuff as much as possible. That's fair.

SPEAKER_01: 8:24

So let me do a quick setup. So last week I was doing uh TPE, right? Is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_00: 8:30

TPE, which is tissue, yeah, so tissue plasma exchange.

SPEAKER_01: 8:35

Exchange, where I was taking the blood out of my body, taking the red blood cells out, right, and putting albumin, whatever back in the blood.

SPEAKER_00: 8:42

Yeah, it's it's like it's like a dialysis, you know, cleansing. It cleans my blood, right?

SPEAKER_01: 8:46

It cleans the blood, right? Definitely. You believe in that.

SPEAKER_00: 8:48

I I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01: 8:50

Okay, so I was it was the second time doing it, and before I met you, my sister has sent me Instagram videos of yours because she knows I have some like heart issues, and she goes, Listen to this guy. And then, you know, and it was like you're outside and you're I think you were living in a trailer or something, and he and she knows your whole story, and then I'm doing the TPE and you come walking in, and I'm in your building.

SPEAKER_00: 9:16

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

So you sat down, we talked for a while, and I was like, I was I would say it was almost starstruck because I knew you from social media.

SPEAKER_00: 9:22

Well, that's how I felt about you.

SPEAKER_01: 9:23

Oh, right. You never you've you've you've heard of the show, you've heard of us.

SPEAKER_00: 9:26

Of course I have. Who hasn't heard of you? Well, so anyway, so we I live in a trailer, uh, not under a rock, you know, as as they would say. And it's actually not a trailer, it's a tent, but we'll talk about it. You live in a tent? We can talk about it.

SPEAKER_01: 9:38

But then you pull up in a big van.

SPEAKER_00: 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:41

Do you live in the van too?

SPEAKER_00: 9:42

It seems like it. If you looked inside, you're not allowed to film inside the van. That's that's totally off limits. My wife will kill me if she's a few.

SPEAKER_01: 9:48

Well, I saw you get out of the van and change clothes.

SPEAKER_00: 9:51

Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:53

So I mean, how come you live in a tent? How come you live out of a van? And you're a very, very successful cardiac surgeon. What's the title?

SPEAKER_00: 10:01

So, I mean, by training, I'm a cardiologist. Cardiologist. So I went through four years of internal medicine, or excuse me, four years of medical school, three years of internal medicine, three years of cardiology. Okay. I was with the biggest group in the state of uh Arizona as a hospital-based cardiologist for up until 2012. And from there, we uh I I would leave and I'd start my own company, Natural Heart Doctor, and you were over at our offices and you had the procedure done, the tissue plasma exchange, and that's like a dialysis. Dialysis has been around for, you know, for 60, 70 years. And the idea there is that it's another biohack, right? We have all these different biohacks, but it comes at the end of how we eat, live, and think. And then maybe we can do advanced testing in the world to say, okay, well, these are your markers now, and then let's check them in the future. And that could be now we're gonna look at evidence-based supplements and then are there biohacking, that could be sauna, red light, and that could be tissue plasmic change. The idea of the blood dialysis is cool because it helps to remove unnecessary proteins that we don't want, including one that was very popular a few years ago, a certain protein that was circulating around, uh injected. And then there was also uh the idea of there's plastics. And so we talked about plastic in cans, and plastic is ubiquitous in our society. So, how do we scrub that plastic out? That's a big one because as you and I spoke, I talked about people with plastic in their arteries as measured. They're at triple the risk of heart attack, stroke, and dying, which makes plastic a bigger risk factor than smoking, drinking, diabetes, high blood pressure, like combined times two or three. It's it's it's a massive risk factor. So, one of the tenets of live well is not living in a home that has water damage, water damage, mold, andor bacteria. So we were living in a home in 2018 that we found out had mold. We moved from that home. We actually moved from Arizona to Colorado, and then ultimately the house we were living there we found out had bacteria. So we left that home and we said, you know what? Until we build our home out of concrete, steel, and glass, we're gonna be living in tents. So I do consider myself the world's best preventive cardiologist. Not the guy you would go to see if you're in the midst of a heart attack. For that, you go to any local hospital and they'll take care of you. But if you want to prevent, treat, and reverse cardiovascular disease, I consider myself the world's greatest. And a lot of it is because nobody else really goes after root cause. I'm kind of alone in this world. And the world's greatest is living in a tent up in North uh Cave Creek location.

SPEAKER_01: 12:42

Do you have a tent? Undisclosed. Like, because you also have kids. So is your tent one big tent and you're all in sleeping bags, or are you in a tent? They have a tent?

SPEAKER_00: 12:50

Yeah, so uh it's my wife and I, and then we've got 18, 13-year-old boys, and then seven and four-year-old girls. So the boys have their own tent. My wife and I, and the little girls, we stay in our tent. We stay in our own tent, and then we have a traveling companion who kind of helps us manage everything. Uh, and she's in her own tent.

SPEAKER_01: 13:11

And what uh how do you handle showers, brushing teeth, and all that?

SPEAKER_00: 13:14

Let's uh yeah, so we have an outdoor shower. Uh we have an outdoor shower, so we hook up to a water system to a water tank, and then we have a propane heater shower, so we do that. Generator. So we have a generator, uh, and and you're talking to a Jewish kid from the north suburbs of Chicago. Like I'm not MacGyver. The fact that I have made this happen is a miracle.

SPEAKER_01: 13:38

Uh, you know, but it's and your wife the whole time is all the way in.

SPEAKER_00: 13:41

It's it was never it was all her, man. It was, I mean, basically, when we found out we had mold in 2018, she's like, you know what? I'm leaving the house. Uh uh, we've I found out we have mold. That's been causing me health issues, causing the kids some health issues. I'm leaving. I'm gonna go down to my sister's till we figure this out, and you're welcome to join us. And I said, Well, of course I want to join you. I love you, you know. Uh I'm coming with. And uh that was kind of the start of our journey, but it's um it's it's simple. It really is easy to do because the sleeping is simple, right? We're inside in a tent, and you can sleep outside. You can sleep outside and uh in the grass. So we're on we're on some organic latex rubber mats, so like a topper, it's like a mattress topper, and those go directly on the ground. Uh, and my two sons, they have cots and they will sleep on those. And it depends what the elements are like outside. And if you know it's gonna rain, you pay a lot of attention to what the weather is. You know, even here in Arizona, you know, we had a lot of rain yesterday, you know, really or the day before. Uh so that was a factor. And everything runs off of a veganerator, or if you can plug into someone's electrical somewhere, you can do that. And the refrigerator, freezer, coolers, good old-fashioned camping stove. It's odd, but it's doable. And especially if you're if you're sick, if you're not feeling well, and it's because of the home you live in, then the decision becomes pretty simple.

SPEAKER_01: 15:18

But if you're gonna have a day, a lazy day, are you in a hammock or are you like, what is a lazy day for you? Like me, it's on the couch watching TV.

SPEAKER_00: 15:26

Yeah, I've I haven't done that in a long time. Wow. I haven't done that in a long time. So we do have chairs, and I mean, you know, honestly, you could. I mean, we we have used a TV. I mean, you remember 20, I mean, let's say 20 years ago, if you wanted a flat screen Phillips Plasma TV, they were small and they were 10 grand. Like, say like circa 2002. Right. Well, now you can go into whatever your favorite big box store is, you can have it delivered on Amazon, and now you're looking at this 42-inch TV that you got for under$100. I mean, it is a disposable product. Right. So, what do we do? We plug the TV into uh the last time we used it, it was actually we had a power source, so we didn't need the generator, but we play it's like an outdoor movie theater. Right. Outdoor movie, and you have your chairs as comfortable as you want it to be, you can do it.

SPEAKER_01: 16:23

It sounds like you're giving your kids a great foundation to be like, remember when we used to live in tents when they're grown up? Like they love it, they get it.

SPEAKER_00: 16:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:32

Um, homeschooled or go to school?

SPEAKER_00: 16:34

They're yeah, they're they're unschooled. They're unschooled. We kind of teach them uh as we go along. First of all, that we're teaching them what we feel are the most important things, uh, which are really spirituality, uh, God, food, nutrition, all these lifestyle that things that they're learning, they're learning from us. We're not teaching them about the war of 1812, and we're not, you know, we're teaching them how to be critical thinkers, how to question everything, question any form of authority with respect.

SPEAKER_01: 17:05

So it's not like get up at 8 a.m. and we have class. They just go on with life to be like, hey, let me tell you something. You just kind of educate them as we go.

SPEAKER_00: 17:13

That's correct. Wow. That's correct.

SPEAKER_01: 17:15

Is there pushback on that? Any kind of pushback?

SPEAKER_00: 17:17

You know, it's interesting. You know, certain states would say that there would be, you know, pushback theoretically. We've never had any kind of pushback. A lot of the pushback would be when we share our opinions on social media and then social media critics, you know. Uh how about friends?

SPEAKER_01: 17:31

Do they have friends?

SPEAKER_00: 17:32

Uh they well, they certainly have friends, and they're extremely outgoing, gregarious kids. A lot of them are, you know, we meet them in youth youth groups. And and I think since COVID, there are millions and millions of people have just opted out of the system. Yeah, I think for a whole variety of reasons. And then, of course, when you go onto social media, you find those people, you find them in the local uh, you know, church groups. Uh and if I was gonna say, you know, pushback, it would really be from from family members, uh, in particular, maybe you know Heather's mom and my mom, you know, as far as what they think. But where's your mom right now? My mom lives up in Las Vegas. My father passed of a Parkinson's-like illness back in 2007, which was one of the main drivers for me adopting this kind of lifestyle, because when I met the woman who would have become my wife, you know, we took my father just before that to the mail clinic, and the mail clinic said, We have no idea why your father's sick and dying of this Parkinson's-like illness. And then I meet this 29-year-old chiropractor who tells me exactly why my father is dying of this illness. And it clicked for me, and it really changed everything. Of course, I would leave, you know, the big cardiology group and I would, you know, start my own practice and all those kind of things, and we would get married and four kids later. But, you know, once again, uh one thing that's interesting is that if you will, the way that we did it, the the way that other people do it, they hold on to that belief, right? So my mom would say, I uh didn't breastfeed you, I gave birth to you in a hospital, it wasn't a home birth. You were fully injected with everything, and and I put you in a crib and I let you cry it out in your own room. Like everything that we now stand against. And uh, and she says, When you were crying, I would come into the room and throw chocolate chip cookies into your crib so you you'd shut up. And I say, Ma, you were a wonderful mother. You were. You know, you did the best that you can do of. You know, your sister did it the same way, you did it that way. But if someone asks you now, Marlene, you know, let go of the past. It's okay to admit that you did something wrong for whatever reasons, but it's all about how do we move forward? How do we move forward doing the right thing? You know, you and I have both made mistakes in our lives, and okay, we can own up to those mistakes and we can say, I made those mistakes, but I'm gonna do better now. So to Heather's mom, to my mom, to all the other moms out there who they hold on to, I did it this way and that was the right way, including schooling. Maybe you can admit and say, is it a big deal if the kids go to school or not? Like, what are they missing? They're not missing on the social activity, that's for sure. And I would say they're missing on a lot of the bad things in school. What bad influence?

SPEAKER_01: 20:16

Organized sports, youth sports.

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

Yeah, that's I mean, so they could get into that. So you pretty much every school has an opportunity for a homeschool child to get into soccer or basketball. There's all kinds of things. So they do have that. But our kids, I mean, they mostly do individual sports now. You know, they they both played soccer, but they're mountain bikers.

SPEAKER_01: 20:39

But if your mom was coming to visit, would she have a tent? Her own tent?

SPEAKER_00: 20:45

She hasn't come to visit yet. No, she wouldn't, uh she would never do that. She would never be upset with you? She would my mom's 81 years old, so I don't think she would necessarily be in the tent life. I don't think she's upset. Is she close with your kids? So uh in particular, she uh she's closer with the two older boys. Uh she's had more interaction with them. My wife's mother is closer with the two little girls, but again, it's really hard to wrap your head around living in a tent. No, it is, but you have to be sick enough. That's pretty much what the driver is. So my mom would say, Well, I'm not I'm not sick. Yeah, I got some high blood pressure, and I take a whole bunch of you know your supplements and stuff, and but I'm not, I would never consider living in a tent. You gotta be sick enough. And there's plenty of people in this mold bacteria community that have been sick enough that have done we've met a lot of people like that.

SPEAKER_01: 21:34

I think people a lot of people are sick like that, but they don't know it. They don't know you get used to it. I every once in a while I'll get an IV drip, right? And in the IV drip, I'll get um tordol. Right? Tordol is like a pain relieve or something like that. And uh the next day and a half, I feel amazing. And I realize I'm just used to living in what like right now I feel fine, but I'm sure if I had tortol tomorrow, I'd be like, wait a minute, my body, you just get used to living in pain, right?

SPEAKER_00: 22:05

It is the norm. It's the norm where people think that dizziness and headaches are normal, and therefore the answer to that is ibuprofen or acetamed. Right, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01: 22:15

You don't have a lack of ibuprofen in your body.

SPEAKER_00: 22:17

You don't have a lack of ibuprofen, no, no. I mean, we are built to be extremely vibrant, to have tons of energy into our 80s, 90s, and beyond. The the people are just running around. It's normal to have gut problems, it's normal to have skin problems, eczema, and then, of course, it's normal to take pharmaceuticals to cover it up, like you said. And it is root cause when you say, well, you may be living in a home that has water damage. You likely are. And mold goes back to the Hebrew Bible, mold releases toxins. What are these toxins? Penicillin is a mold mycotoxin, and there's many other examples, including the first cholesterol drug, the statin drug category was a mold mycotoxin. But invariably, we don't learn this stuff in medical school. We learn how to write prescriptions for pharmaceuticals and IV toridol. We learn how to do tests, we learn how to send people for surgeries. I went through 10 years of medical training. We never talked about nutrition, we never talked about sunshine, we never talked about sleep. We talked about the fact that we didn't get sleep as cardiologists, we never talked about chemicals. Today I was in a coffee shop, uh, an organic coffee shop, and there was a guy there, and he's got his cell phone in his front in a left pocket. And so I said, I gotta go up to him, I gotta say something. I said, Excuse me, you have your phone in your left shirt pocket, your phone is all electromagnetic, and you and I talked about this before, so you know what I'm gonna say here. He's got a cell phone here on top of his heart. What does that mean? What does that do? And he's like, Yeah, I do have atrial fibrillation. I do have one of the most common heart rhythm problems. And I said, Listen, it's not doing you any favor if you tell me you were a doctor. And I said, I'm a cardiologist, and I said, I'm not looking for business, you know, whatever, but I gotta just tell you out of the goodness of my heart that that's what it is. Now I'm I don't go up to everybody who's wearing an Apple Watch and stuff like that. But, you know, if they're if they're not gonna hear it from people like us, if they're not gonna hear it from someone like you interviewing me to get this out there to the world, we're just perpetuating the sickness. And I think that it's just so unfortunate because cardiovascular disease, number one killer in the world. I have it. Number one killer in the world after all these years, after all these since 1980, we've gained three years of life expectancy despite trillions in pharmaceuticals and surgical procedures and a cardiac world stents and the bypasses and the pacemakers and the ablations. We have an extra three years. You know, it's time to wake up and say, let's give our God-given bodies the right stuff and avoid the wrong stuff. That's the strategy. So how do you reverse uh cardiac disease? So, you know, you just start with the foundations, and you can definitely. But I also like to say this is that it's not even so much that we if you have coronary artery disease, for example, you have a CT scan that says you've got coronary disease, you can live with those pipes the way they are for the next hundred thousand years. What we want to make sure is we're not gonna let the situation get any worse, or one of the plaques that are there break loose or in this case erode. And is if it erodes and breaks loose, then it shuts down the pipe and you have a massive heart attack. And you know, so the story goes. But it's really a matter of continue with you know root cause, eat this stuff, avoid this stuff, live this kind of lifestyle, think the happy thoughts because whenever I take a history and someone who's had a heart attack or a stroke, what happened beforehand? Tell me about it. Didn't the cardiologist ask you about your stress levels? Like, why now? If you're 55 years old and you have a heart attack, why now? Why did it why did it just happen to you? What was going on in your life stress-wise? And I want to identify that because I want you to work on that going forward so it doesn't happen to you again. And we never talk about stress as cardiologists. We never talk when someone comes up with a cancer diagnosis, what was going on in your life before that? And in particular, there's two medical diagnoses that are much more common in women. One is called SCAD, spontaneous coronary artery dissection, a woman who's under stress, she has a massive heart attack. It's not from a blockage, but it's from where the artery just tears open. Uh, the other is called tacosubocardiomyopathy, where a woman is under stress, she gets in a fight with her boss, argument with her spouse, uh, and she has a massive heart attack. We go in there with catheters, everything's clean, no coronary artery disease. It was a massive spasm that they had. Women need to know about this. People need to know. To answer your question, I do think that when you're eating well, living well, thinking well, what we call the 100-year heart method. Eating well, living well, thinking well. And thinking well, that whole combination, and they're all equally as important, then you do the most advanced testing in the world. Like I'm talking about state-of-the-art 21st century, you know, 25, 20, you know, six testing as we come into 26. The testing there is is just so in-depth, so thorough, and so many different levels. And then we get into the evidence-based supplements and then biohacking strategies like you, whether you're having exosomes or you're having IV ozone. I'm doing everything I can because all those things.

SPEAKER_01: 27:47

My calcium score is pretty high. So I'm trying to do everything I can to either pause it, reverse it. I don't know. I'm trying to do, I believe I think well, live well, eat well. Is that what it would think well? What is it?

SPEAKER_00: 27:57

Yeah, well, I mean, everyone loves to debate the food story. So we start off with the eat well, you know, so eat the right foods, avoid the wrong foods. And I think that the most important thing for you, once again, is not it's not to reverse it. And I would implore you, how are we gonna know if you're reversing it? I would advise you never to have another CT scan because of the radiation exposure. And it's just not a good thing to follow because somebody would say, okay, John Jay, here's what you're gonna do. You had a scan um at time zero, and let's check it again in five years. You're gonna say, well, I have to wait five years to see if it's working. And if my scan, my score was a 200 and now it's a 300, does that mean what I'm doing is working? Is it not working? How do I know? What if my score is at 200 again? What if it is a little, you know, so I'm saying I would much rather better. You and I talked about this. I kind of alluded to, you know, us being kind of you know kids of the 1970s and how radiation turns Bill Bixby uh into, you know, whose Bruce Banner turns him into Lou Ferrigno, the incredible hulk. Right. So radiation, I don't think, is a good thing. I was around plenty of radiation as a cardiologist, of course, doing angiograms and pacemakers. I don't like radiation in any way, shape, or form. So uh so what do we do? I mean, we just you know, how do we know you're on track? So that's where the markers of inflammation come. Inflammation, oxidative stress. Uh we can measure things like LP little A, we can measure omega-3 fatty acids, we can measure levels of glutathione. We talked, you know, briefly about glutathione, it's the body's main antioxidant made in the liver. We can measure your levels. CoQ10, everyone talks about CoQ10. What are your levels? So we can measure intracellular vitamins, minerals, we can measure different proteins and all these different fatty acids, we can measure the toxins. We have so much that we can measure that you can actually say, I'm gonna do this new thing. I'm gonna go vegan for a month, which obviously I don't advise, but I'm gonna go vegan for a month and then check my numbers and see how they look. You could say, I'm gonna go carnivore for a month, which I don't advise, and then check your numbers in a month. You could say, I'm going to go to sleep earlier or I'm gonna dedicate the next month to being outside. I'm gonna live in a tent for the next month and I'm gonna check my numbers. I'm gonna drink hydrogen water for the next month and see what it does to my numbers. You know what I'm saying? It when you do a CT scan, if there are going to be changes, they take a very long time. And you want to know, hey, am I on the right track? And I want to know right now, and that's one blood pressure would be another metric to know right now. How many times you wake up at night to urinate would be a metric of, hey, I normally wake up three to four times a night, and then I did this therapy, and now I'm waking up once, maybe some nights none. So we we can use those kind of metrics.

SPEAKER_01: 31:05

Do you currently have patients that you work with or are you are you out of it?

SPEAKER_00: 31:08

You just Yeah, no, I I do. I mean, I do. I've been I've been virtual since 2012 in in a lot of ways, because people would come out to see me in Arizona in my old office, and then they would go back to wherever they're from, and then we would follow up virtually back in the day with Skype. Uh now I do a lot of Zoom consultations, but I also have a great team around me. I've got other cardiologists who work with me, team of health coaches who work with me. You know Dr. Smeagle, who of course is um uh just a phenomenal, phenomenal physician. And as good as he is as a physician, I believe he's a better person. Uh I've known him for 20 years, and that's he's the kind of guy who you would call in the middle of the night and say, Hey, I'm having this particular symptom, and he would work you, you know, work with you through it, or you know, he'd come over to your house and do an IV, not because of your media personality and because he wants to call, you know, your favorites, because he's a good guy.

SPEAKER_01: 32:04

So I got that vibe from him totally. But when you said you met your wife and she said, Here's why your dad has the disease he has, what was the answer?

SPEAKER_00: 32:12

So it was really just a matter of kind of believe it or not, it's she tells me, starts talking about these are the foods your father ate, these are the things your dad did. My father was a cardiologist just like me in Chicago. So if we say He was around radiation, he was around radiation, but he was also in a hospital which is full of all kinds of poisons and chemicals and toxins. He was not, you know, he was a Chicago cardiologist. So how much, if we say sunshine is important, how much sunshine does a Chicago cardiologist get? Zero. Exactly. Uh, if you say, what kind of food does one eat in Chicago, right? The home of deep dish pizza, Italian beef sandwiches, all the foods that any, you know, when I first moved out here from Chicago, and people are like, oh, what do you miss about Chicago? I would say the food. Well, I don't eat that food anymore. But the all the foods, all the lifestyle, all the toxins, uh, mental issues as well that my father would have had, maybe some things that it would have caused him uh pain, you know, maybe some childhood traumas that he would have had. Uh again, things that you would just never unpack.

SPEAKER_01: 33:20

Um, it's important to get rid of the childhood trauma to move forward. It definitely is therapist or something. It definitely is. Or ayahuasca or all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 33:29

And well, you know, that's certainly not my bag. And whatever you would do to first of all, I think identify that it is a health problem. Like it's it's very people who have childhood trauma have a much higher risk of having a heart attack and a stroke at a younger age than someone who doesn't have that. So how do we process that? And again, I that's not my specialty. So I would refer people out for that. And if there are certain things that are better than others, and I would definitely say that when however we can deal with that naturally, whether it's ayahuasca, ibergain, or something, you know, along those lines, to deal with it in a short-term way, which is ideal, uh, but and not a long-term pharmaceutical approach. You go to see a psychiatrist and all they're gonna do is throw some pills at you.

SPEAKER_01: 34:17

So But you said ayahuasca is not your thing. You do you you've no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00: 34:21

I mean, I you know, I mean, candidly, I've never done it personally, and I'm all for it if it helps someone move forward with uh trauma.

SPEAKER_01: 34:29

Yeah, that's what I've heard a lot of people doing. Yeah. Um, the other thing I I begin, I just heard that a couple weeks ago, first time I've heard it. That's another thing helping like uh war veterans with uh PTSD. Yeah, most certainly. So do you you do you drink? Not anymore. No, when'd you quit drinking?

SPEAKER_00: 34:46

Uh okay, quit drinking. So I let me say I if I ever drink once every three months, but I think I'm on my way out. I think I'm done with it. Not because I had any problem with alcohol, and not because my father had any problem with alcohol. The sob story of my father's alcohol is that he's dead. That's the sob story. My father, when he drank, he was the life of the party, you know, the joke teller, the storyteller. On Friday afternoons, he would take all the cardiology trainees and the internal medicine residents and the students and the nurses and go to happy hour and he'd pay for everybody's chicken wings and you know, uh uh, you know, and pizzas and whatever else people, and of course they're alcohol. So there's no sob story, but the particular part of the brain called the substantia nigra, where Parkinson's disorders reside that is affected by alcohol, and that also was uh, again, I think part of his downfall. He also took a cholesterol medication, a statin drug, which I can put together the biochemical string of how a statin drug can lead to similar. So I choose not to drink. I I just I want to be present all the time. If I drink, right, you know, you don't sleep well, so it kind of violates that law the liver toxin, you know, and especially you're doing so many things. Uh you know, I mean, and you know, I mean the brain is so critical, and the liver is so critical. And of course, alcohol is toxic to the heart. So if you do drink alcohol, I'll say one final word about that. It's to make sure it's organic. Make sure you get the chemicals out of the alcohol. So if organic vodka vodka is your thing, drink organic vodka. If tequila is your thing, drink organic tequila. Organic organic vodka.

SPEAKER_01: 36:27

Well, let me ask you this. So I've got the cardiac stuff in my in me. Um, I took my kids to Amsterdam over the summer. My father's from the Netherlands, and he drank and he died of a heart attack. Um, and my boys, they were like, let's all have a beer together. And I just couldn't do it. I didn't want to, I haven't drank, I hadn't had a sip alcohol in over five years. And and that five years ago, it was only one time. Before that, it was 10 years, right? So I was just like, I feel I I have this regret that I didn't have a Heineken with my boys in Amsterdam.

SPEAKER_00: 36:58

I think that the the the lesson that they received from it.

SPEAKER_01: 37:05

I think I just had a gnat fly in my mouth. But I'm having a heart attack, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:13

If he has a heart attack, call 911, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just no, but anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 37:18

The cardiologist is here. No, I do not. 911? You were saying the lesson that I taught them was probably the last one.

SPEAKER_00: 37:23

The lesson you taught them on not having alcohol is so much better than remember that time that, you know, with dad we had a Heineken in Amsterdam. I I definitely get that. But the lesson also to the children, I mean, we're here to be an example. Yeah, they've never seen me drink. Yeah, so uh why? And then of course, that that 30 minutes after that Heineken, you're like, wow, that was really good. I mean, maybe I'll have another one. I don't know. But then afterwards you come down from that and you're like, oh, dad is lame. Dad just wants to go back to the hotel and like take a nap. Like, dad doesn't want to go running around. We're not, you know, we're not 18, so that's what happens there. So I I applaud you. I think it's very important for us as we become the you know patriarchs, as we become the matriarchs, as our wives will become the matriarchs of the family, that that kind of example that's good multi-generational. Yeah. You know, the that example sets the example in your child, which sets the example for his children and his children's children. That's the thing. The stuff that we say, the the the way that we behave in front of our children, this this impacts generations for hundreds, the next hundreds of years. That's pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_01: 38:42

Wow, it made me feel good about that.

SPEAKER_00: 38:43

Thanks, dude. You're right. Yeah, thanks. You should. You should. Although a Heineken would taste good. I I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that. And and you don't want to be the guy where dad's having the uh the alcohol-free Heineken. I guess uh no no. We could have done that, but it's just like you know, it's cool.

SPEAKER_01: 38:58

So on my radio show today, I was talking about how I was gonna interview you, and I was, you know, we're moving 100 miles an hour on the radio, and I took something that you said to me last week when I met you, and I after I said it on the air, everyone started bagging on me. And I felt like I re I said it wrong, but maybe I didn't because you were talking to me about the clothes you were wearing. I thought you said, I'm wearing 100% cotton underwear, I'm wearing 100% cotton, whatever. And then everyone on the show was like, underwear's cotton. Like, what's he talking about? Like everyone's underwear is cotton. And I'm like, oh shh, I didn't know that. I don't I don't know what who makes what clothes or what. Why, but like you were, you were kind of telling me, look, I don't have stuff. I dress very basic. What is so special about the clothes that you wear?

SPEAKER_00: 39:39

Yeah, so I mean, remember that there's gonna be a lot of people against us, if you will. And not that these people were against you by any means, but there's a lot of where people hold on to these, you know, things where it's like, oh, look at John Jay. He's got this newfound religion where he's you know eating this way and he's doing this or doing we like the old John Jay better. We like the guy who would have gone to Amsterdam and you know laid it all out there. We like I wish I would have done this 30 years ago. So totally, right? I mean, I mean, because people would look at me and they're like, oh, you know, you know, you know, be critical of me. I'm like, I I only found this religion I was 35. Like I had 35 years of hard living in my mother's womb. You know, she wasn't eating organic uh uh organic vegetables and uh and seafood. She was a Chicago deep dish pizza girl herself, and as she says, that from the moment she found out she was pregnant, she never stopped eating, you know. Uh, back to the question about the underwear. So it's the organic cotton underwear. I don't know exactly what all underwear is made out of. I mean, presumably some of it, but it's the organic nature of it because it doesn't have the chemicals that are embedded, the pesticides that are cotton is one of the most chemically sprayed things in the world. And now, if you take that pesticide, if you take that chemical, and if it's leaching into your genitalia, it's probably not a good thing. Now, of course, organics are always going to be better for the environment and stuff like that. But I also want people to understand that when, for example, if they're walking around wearing a polyester t-shirt, if they're wearing for whatever your favorite brand is, and those stretch t-shirts. I think this is what is one, and you sweat into it, you're just sweating these plastic. It's it's polyester is plastic. Nylon is plastic. These are all plastic synthetic materials, and you breathe them into your body, you absorb them into your body, and you're killing yourself. So I just tell people of course we would always choose cotton whenever possible. Uh, there's hemp and there's linen and there's other clothing, but it's also just about raising awareness. Like, look at everything you bring into your home, everything in your life. Is it a toxic chemical or not? And if it is, don't bring it in. There's a lot of you know, 25-year-olds that feel amazing, they feel bulletproof. There's a lot of 25-year-olds that are not. A lot of young women out there, palpitations, skip beats, flips, skips. People are sick. People are sick. And they're not going to get answers from the medical community. They're just not. They've not. Things are not changing. The medical doctors are trained pharma surgeries. So are you or have you written a book? I do have a book. I do have a book. Uh, thank you for asking. Thank you for not reading it. Oh, I didn't know about it. But I will, I will. I just mentioned. I'll make sure to give you a copy. Uh so it's called the paleocardiologist, the natural way to heart health. It's about paleo nutrition, but it's about the paleo lifestyle. Is that you? Are you a paleo? So, yeah, I mean, so so we talk that that really is what we are. So it's paleo nutrition, which is hunter-gatherer like our ancestors did. So we are hunter-gatherers. I'm not the carnivore cardiologist, like I said. I'm not the vegan cardiologist. So to put a label on it, it's paleo, but it's also the paleo lifestyle, the sleep, the sunshine. Our ancestors were outdoor. Like they were outdoor all.

SPEAKER_01: 42:59

When did you write this book?

SPEAKER_00: 43:00

2015, Amazon bestseller, Morgan James Publishing. It's available on Amazon. If anybody wants to give the money to Jeff Bezos, feel free. Uh, if they want a uh free copy, just pay shipping. It's uh freeheartbook.com. And uh for real?

SPEAKER_01: 43:17

You gotta give it for free?

SPEAKER_00: 43:18

I I you know, I pay, you know, again, I I want people to get a copy of the book. So yeah, they pay shipping and freeheartbook free. Freeheartbook.com. And then after that, they're gonna get a copy of the book, and then they'll be offered a second copy, and then they'll be offered a supplement, and it's a sales funnel, if you will. Oh, yeah, maybe you gotta make money. Well, you know, I'm I'm very proud of the stuff that I do now. I'm very proud, you know, if I tell you to take something, it's because I take it myself. I recommend it myself. I'm proud of that. What I'm not proud of the fact is that we used to do nuclear stress tests out of everybody who had insurance. Like that was the game. How do you see people as quickly as possible? How do you do as many tests as you can on that person as possible? Yeah, we're trying to give people the best health, but we're also milking insurance as much as possible. I'm not proud of what I did there, but I can own it. I can admit to it. And a lot of cardiologists can't admit to them being wrong.

SPEAKER_01: 44:13

Are there people out in the world of social media or names that we would know that back you up that say, yeah, Dr. Wilson, you're right. We're the same way. Is there is there somebody like that?

SPEAKER_00: 44:23

Oh no, there's there's a lot of people who are out there. There's a lot of people on social media who talk this. There's other cardiologists who talk uh similar as far as health and maybe anti-pharma, if you will. There's a lot of those people out there, but I think I'm the most uh extreme and the most radical. Like that's why I said to you, hey, I'm wearing organic cotton underwear because we take the lifestyle very seriously. Number two reason, and I'll tell you number one, but number one, number two reason is that I want to be able to inspire other people to do the same for their health. The number one reason why I do it is very selfish. I don't want to die like my father did. I've got young kids, I've got a four-year-old. I was changing diapers at 50. And I don't want to die.

SPEAKER_01: 45:14

Well, yeah, that's my thing too. I want to be around. My dad died at 66. I'm like doing everything I can. I wish I would have been living this a long time ago. Well, what a- It's never too late, though.

SPEAKER_00: 45:23

I mean, I mean, it's never too late. You're right there.

SPEAKER_01: 45:25

Well, so I'm telling you right now, like the stuff I talk about is the stuff you talk about, but I don't have the education in the background. Uh you're like, so to hear you talk about it, like you're not a guy that was once a chiropractor. You're not a guy that was a car guy and was like, hey man, I'm telling you how to eat right. Like, you're a guy that has all the education behind it. You know, whereas I'm just a guy on the radio going, hey man, I read about this, so I'm doing it. Like, let me ask you this. That reminds me. So I have a friend of mine that had uh he had cancer, lymph node cancer, had the lip nodes removed, uh, didn't want it to come back, did it. He's been doing everything he can. He wouldn't do chemo. But what he did was he did the sauna, he does all these other things, IV drips, natural path all the time. But he was doing that thing that I can't believe is legit is that methylene blue. That to me sounds when I looked it up, it's a clothing dye, right?

SPEAKER_00: 46:16

Yeah, it's a clothing dye that has some alleged benefits. There's really not a lot of research on it, so it's not something that I currently recommend. There are other holistic physicians that are doing it, and maybe inside the cancer world, it's a little bit different. But there was an event a few years ago called The Truth About Cancer. And the truth about cancer, they did their first thing, uh, they did a live, and it was in Dallas, Texas. It's a massive hotel conference center. And there were probably six, seven thousand people in the audience. And it was live streamed, so there were hundreds of thousands of people that were, you know, tuning in. And the organizers of it said, Jack, we want you to come speak. I'm like, I'm a cardiologist, it's a cancer event. What do you what do you want me for? And they're like, Well, all these people have heart disease, so you may as well come down and speak. And I'm like, okay, cool. So uh the thing I said from the stage, I feel is really, really, really important for anyone and everyone, uh, no matter what your health condition is, cancer or not, you cannot get healthy in the same environment where you got sick. So you have to change up the environment. Now, does that mean you should move from Chicago to Scottsdale? Does it mean you should move from Scottsdale to Cancun, Mexico? The answer is maybe. But the more you change up your environment, your food environment, your house environment, your sleep environment, your relationship environments, the more you change up all that, the more you have a chance of success. Because if you're the person who developed cancer in that environment, you can't you can't chemo your way out of that. You can't radiate your way out of that. You may get some level of improvement, and most chemotherapy is worthless, most radiation is worthless. They'll tell you to do it because that's how they drive a Mercedes and and a Porsche, and they live in fancy homes. They'll say it's beneficial, but that's how they get it. And and another important thing, obviously, you know, so change up your environment. The other thing is like ask questions. Ask you know, let's have meaningful conversations. Like you, if you're my you know, patient, I want this to be a partnership, just like we're talking about right now. Like, let's just have a conversation. And you're like, what about methylene blue? What about chemotherapy? What about radiation? Like, let's have a conversation about it. And it's not adversarial, it's a partnership, it's not a dictatorship. Let's just and let me, you know, because you're gonna say, Well, give me the benefits. Everyone's talking about methylene blue. Tell me the data, tell me the science, and then I'll make a decision. You want me to go on a statin drug? Tell me the data, tell me the science.

SPEAKER_01: 49:10

Well, the methylene blue thing sounds a little bizarre to me. That's I agree. That's where I'm like I'm like that.

SPEAKER_00: 49:17

I agree.

SPEAKER_01: 49:18

I did my own little research. I'm like, wait a minute, it was a clothing die and people are taking it, and my buddy was taking it, then he could go sit in the sauna and then a red light bed because when you did that, it did something to kill cancer. I don't know. Seems good.

SPEAKER_00: 49:30

Well, if you have cancer, I mean, it depends on the stage of cancer, too. Like if it's a stage four cancer and they're like, you know, you're gonna die in six months. Well, of course, all you know, I mean, take every every you know, possibility there. The other thing, again, it just goes back to the metrics, right? How do we know if it's working? So if we do a blood test and it says that you have a lot of inflammation or oxidative stress, give me your methylene blue uh uh protocol and then let me see the numbers. And like, did it get better? Okay, did my numbers get better?

SPEAKER_01: 50:01

For you, for example, right now you're you're absolutely healthy, right? There is nothing in your body that's wrong, nothing, right?

SPEAKER_00: 50:09

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01: 50:09

Right. Okay, so God forbid you did find out that you had a nodule on your prostate or something, how would you handle it?

SPEAKER_00: 50:18

Uh, you know, again, I'm doing a lot of the stuff already, right? So it's like that would be a major shocker to my system. But I, you know, it's always how do we dig deeper? How do we peeling back the onion? I wouldn't say how I would get it. I would look back and I'd say, first of all, like I said, 35 years of of living a poisonous lifestyle, that's gonna be a problem. And then just like I said to you, okay, I gotta change up my environment. How how would that look? You know, where would I have to go? Oh, definitely, yeah. I wouldn't even uh I I mean honestly, I don't see any scenario, you know, where where I would take medicine, if you will, outside of having that conversation. So if you have cancer or if you had a heart attack, the questions you want to ask is what is the benefit of your therapies? What are the risks of your therapies? What are the alternatives of your therapies? So if you had a heart attack and I say, swallow this pill, because this is going to lower your risk of having another heart attack in the next five years, it's gonna lower your risk from 20% to 2%. Well, 20% versus 2%, that's a huge difference. So in that scenario, I'd probably say, I'll take your therapy. I mean, depending on how, you know, what what are the side effects of it? But let's say side effects are are pretty minimal. Because again, we're gonna look at risk benefit. But if you're gonna say take this statin drug and it's gonna reduce your heart attack risk from 3% to 2.7%, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna try something different than that. So just ask questions. Okay, you know, it's you know, just ask the questions.

SPEAKER_01: 52:02

So when I was talking to you last week, you brought up a product and um I got something and I haven't tried it yet, but we talked about it and I can't remember. Shy lat? Shlat.

SPEAKER_00: 52:11

So it's uh shilagit.

SPEAKER_01: 52:13

She lajit, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 52:15

Um, and with all due respect for you again, without I mean in the net you know, in the medical world, I never had a clue had a clue how to spell it and stuff like that. And it's funny when people they get all sheepish about a pharmaceutical, they don't know how to pronounce them. Like I spent Oh, I don't care. I I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and a lot of my life trying to learn those names.

SPEAKER_01: 52:31

So I watched YouTube videos on it last night. So they were gonna they called it a bunch of different names, but I'd look to teach S-H-I-L-J-A-T or something.

SPEAKER_00: 52:39

Yeah, yeah, I mean, presumably it's some kind of a Sanskrit, you know, Hindu word, you know, whatever, for this particular product. And it's it's a it's a very dark uh paste, you know, black paste. It's like a tar. It is from the Himalayan mountains. From the Himalayan mountains. In between the rocks, and it's it's dead plant material. So everyone's kind of running for you know these synthetic things. Are you talking about creatine powers? Why would I take creatine, a synthetic lab-made powder, when I could do something like this that contains dozens and dozens and dozens of minerals, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, you know, boron, molybdenum, all these different things in nature's perfect form from decayed plant matter. Why wouldn't I try that first? So that I would definitely try that.

SPEAKER_01: 53:25

The Shilajit has all those things in it. Yes, magnesium. So when you take it, do you take it in the morning, afternoon, night? When do you do it?

SPEAKER_00: 53:31

I usually take it in the morning with uh with coffee. So me, uh I'm a coffee guy, so I'll do um, you know, three or four cups of coffee in the morning, and I'll mix in a little bit of the chilagit tar, you know, take like a little knife tip and I'll kind of mix it into the water after I brew the coffee. I do everything with a pour-over method, so I don't use any kind of plastic, you know, K cups. And you and I talked about I don't sell ground coffee, I don't sell K cups. It's all the pour-over method, then I'll mix in a little bit of that afterwards. And do you feel a kick right away from the Shilajit? I do actually, now that you mention it, like I feel uh just like a little bit of an energy burst, if you will. I'm not the canary in the coal mine because people say to me, like, oh, you know, do you feel better now when you're 55 compared to when you were 25? And I say, you know, I felt great at 25, I feel great now. You know, I I don't really know, but I'm also like I said, I'm trying to prevent what happened to my father. That's the ultimate. And you know, for guys like you, yeah, we want to be going on the Amsterdam trip, you know, with the with the grandkids. And we're gonna be oh, look at you know, Grandpa John Jay over there, he's he's you know, he grabbed one of the bikes in Amsterdam and he's biking around the city like he he wants to be that 85-year-old guy, not the 85-year-old guy who they kind of, you know, put a wheelchair into the airplane, they take him off in the airplane, and everyone's like, I can't get wait to get away from that guy.

SPEAKER_01: 54:46

Okay, well, that but that makes me think about living in a tent because I'm like, let's say you're living in a tent and you live to be 89. Well, what if you just live in a normal house and you live to be 87, but you have a good life?

SPEAKER_00: 54:57

Uh I I hope that's the case. The life expectancy of an American male is 76.

SPEAKER_01: 55:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 55:02

So that's not 89, it's 76. And the last 15 years of that person's life is in and out of the hospital and the doctor's office and the pharmacy. So what what is the average right now is not very good. And there's always outliers, right? You know the people like, oh, yeah, my father-in-law's 87.

SPEAKER_01: 55:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 55:19

Uh, you know, uh, and and a lot of those people, or let's say some of those people, like they were smokers, they were drinkers, they ate whatever they wanted. There are those outliers. And if you're that outlier, but chance favors the person who's doing it the right way. Again, it is inspirational because you know, there's so much sickness out there. I mean, there's hospitals that they're building all over the place. You know, Mayo Clinic doesn't announce like a two billion dollar expansion on May Boulevard, a street named after a hospital for sick people. They're not building it for healthy people, they're building it predicated on sickness. And the sickness, my friend, is totally preventable.

SPEAKER_01: 55:54

So, how can you tell if you have a house that has the mold that has the bacteria?

SPEAKER_00: 55:59

Yeah, so you know, so we we sell a test on our website called a Swiffer test, and you can tell you collect dust samples and you test your home. It's a lot easier to swallow a pharmaceutical. It's a lot easier to handle your aches and pains with IV toridol or other. It's a lot easier to drink uh, you know, alcohol to ease the pain.

SPEAKER_01: 56:17

So if you do if you do the Swiffer test, send it in and it comes back, hey man, you've got mold, you've got bacteria. Those people should move.

SPEAKER_00: 56:23

Those people should have the house inspected, uh potentially remediated, but we are talking about something that's big. And I think that's why it's not conversed about a lot. Because if insurance companies were on the hook for every home that was moldy after Katrina, you know, in New Orleans, like I mean, you'd have to tear down the entire entire city.

SPEAKER_01: 56:42

No, I had we had a flood in my house, and we had to tear on the floors and we had everything redone, and I just I'm sure it's still right, you can't get it, right? So uh Unfortunately, unfortunately and the Swiffer test is what's your website?

SPEAKER_00: 56:54

Maybe the next uh uh interview we can do up at the uh the campsite so you can see what we're going through. Um the website for it's uh well my website is naturalheartdoctor.com. And that's where the Swiffer test is, is and that's where the Swiffer is and any supplements and all the stuff you know about us. But it's uh it's really liberating in the sense uh you know, I think I told you about this. Like, you know, we so we've got four kids 18, 13, 7, and 4. And the 13-year-old, he kind of struggles because he's he wants his closet back. He wants the closet that he had in Colorado that's got, you know, this is my mountain biking gear, and this is where my ski stuff is, and this is where my you know Friday, you know, evening every you know, we live in the small town in in uh Colorado, so they had first Fridays, right? And where the the main street over there, everybody's out. So this is like his clothing that he would wear, you know, for that. And that's you know, again, it's uh these are little uh you know, white boy problems. Is everything in storage or it's I mean, well, a lot of the stuff we use, I mean, it's in it's in duffel bags, you know. So it's in duffel bags, and okay, well, which duffel bag has this clothes? We we've traveled a lot over the last nine months, a lot. Well, you know, going to Idaho and Montana, California, Texas, Colorado, back and forth out of Arizona. So we haven't really been boots on the ground in one place. If one was to say, you know what, I live in Paradise Valley or Scottsdale. I could live outside in a tent. And I could bring my clothes outside. And maybe I had a tent that was specifically for my clothes, and I had these racks and I had these things. It can be done, but it's a lot to wrap your head around. Complacency is a lot easier. Like you said, it's a lot easier to lay on the couch and watch TV, and it's very comfortable. The problem is, to be to be frank, those people are gonna die. They're going to die, and I I don't know how else to say it. Life expectancy 76 for the American male. You don't want that, I don't want that. How old was your dad when he died? 63. Oh wow, my dad was 66. Holy so do you have brothers and sisters? I have a younger brother and a younger sister. My brother's an internal medicine doctor up in uh Las Vegas, and he understands a lot of what I'm saying, but he chooses to not live that way. Yeah, he'll eat some organic food and stuff like that, but he's not gonna go to the extreme because uh he doesn't want to. You know, he wants to just uh kind of like the character uh played by Joe Palantonio in the movie The Matrix, like plug me back into the Matrix. I don't want to know the truth, you know, la la la la la, but that's not gonna save you. There's no there's no getting plugged uh you know into that.

SPEAKER_01: 59:42

You said you're living in a tent until you get a house with concrete, grass, and and metal. When is that happening?

SPEAKER_00: 59:48

That will be done in Costa Rica toward the end of December. So concrete, glass, and steel. All the water is outside. We are on a ridgeline, so we have a bridge. That's coming through. It's um, I don't want to say like it's a privileged existence. Like as you mentioned earlier, you know, trailer, you could get a brand new trailer. And especially when you live in a place like Arizona, you could live in the trailer every single day of the year. Now, the summertime would certainly get warm, and maybe you'd pull your trailer up to Flagstaff, but that keeping it aerated, it it can't, it's like hashtag no excuses. If you're sick enough, you'll change up your environment because the alternative is you're not gonna make it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:37

So you're building in Costa Rica and it will be done in December.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:41

That's the plan. Like what is it that you're building? A four-bedroom? It's not big. No, no, no. I mean, it's small. It's I mean, it's small. Uh it's gonna be under a thousand square feet. We also are gonna have a separate kind of garage laundry area. All the water, again, will be exposed. And uh, it's a very minimalist living. Like, I do we really need four bedrooms, five bedroom houses? Right? We were hiking up in North Scottsdale and uh out by you know Pinnacle Peak and stuff like that, and they're building these just monster houses of 10, 12, 15,000 square feet. And I would say, for what? Right, why would any and I've lived in homes, I've lived in very nice large homes. I am the son of a cardiologist. I was a very highly paid, successful cardiologist and up until 2012 when I would leave the group and start over. So I know what quote unquote nice homes are, but I would say, like, why do you need that? And the answer is you don't. And I guess you can say, well, if you lived in Buffalo, no insult to the people in Buffalo or my hometown of Chicago or you know, Milwaukee or whatever, yeah, maybe you want a lot of square footage because you spend so much of your time in, but here in Arizona, like, live outdoors. Live outdoors. What are you doing inside of this monster home? And like I said, my my two boys sleep together. My wife and our two daughters. We need two two rooms. We need two tents. That's all we need. And then a kitchen area.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:11

You have wildlife issues?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:12

Uh, we do we have wildlife issues? Uh we've had javelina, you know, obviously up in uh up in uh uh up in Cave Creek where we're staying right now. In Idaho and in Montana, we had bear.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:25

Rattlesnakes?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:26

Uh we have not had any rattlesnakes here in Arizona. Obviously, you could say scorpions, whatever, but we haven't seen any scorpions uh yet in Arizona.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:35

Is there any negative to living in a tent?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:38

No. No, honestly, there's not. The only thing would be yeah, you're exposed to the elements. Let's say if it's windy, if it's really windy, we've had some windy days, that's a hassle. Rain, which so you gotta make sure the rain flies on. Otherwise, we're laying in the tent and staring up at the stars all night.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:53

If you go on vacation, first of all, do you go on vacation?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:55

Do you go to San Diego for a weekend? So let me say so um we have not gone on vacation in nine months. The last vacation we took was to Costa Rica. So that was a year ago, and there was two weeks of rain straight, and the house we were staying in, which was a brand new home, uh, did have mold. It did have mold. We did not feel well there, so we lasted two weeks, and we came back, and that's when we evacuated Colorado and went out to California. In California, we were camping, we had coyotes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:30

You can tell in the house in Costa Rica that there was mold right away.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:33

My wife, my wife has moldar. She has moldar. She can and she can she can sense it very, very quickly. She can sense it on people. Uh, she reacts to it. The women are are are truly the canary in the coal mine because they have this sixth sense. They sense danger because danger would be a way to tell the mom, A, don't get pregnant here. And I think that mold and bacteria leads to a lot of infertility issues. And then it's a way also of like get your offspring out of this environment. It's like a cat. A cat has a litter, and the cat knows when things are not safe. So the cat will pick up each of its offspring one by one in the cat's mouth and take them to a safe location, just one after another. The cat does that. The cat intuitive intuitively knows that, and so do a lot of women. If they're able to really uh embrace, you know, their their those, you know, God-given abilities.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:29

Well, speaking of cats, do you guys have pets?

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:31

So we have a dog and we do have cats.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:33

And they live in the tent.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:35

They live, um, they are running around free range during the day, and then for protection of the cats, they go back into a cage, so we hit like the dinner bell. They have their dinner inside the cage and they're protected inside the cage. The dogs are free range? The dog, the dog is free range. And there's been some campsites that we've gone to where the dog had to be uh controlled, but right now the dog is totally free range up in uh Cave Creek. And then at night we'll put the dog into the sprinter van actually, and that's where she sleeps, really just because otherwise she'll for safety, but also because she'll be barking all night. But she'll go. I mean, she's a she's a 45-pound golden doodle, you know, like a like a medium-sized golden doodle. Uh, she'll be protecting the family and she'll be coyote food, so we we protect her.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:26

What made you pick Costa Rica?

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:28

Uh, it's a great question. You know, during uh you know, during uh COVID, uh, I think it became very apparent to us to find a place where we could live outdoors every single day, running water, fruit trees, animals, and that's what we're developing down there right now. Uh, truly being outdoor and living outdoor. Well, like you'll be doing the hunting is critical. So no, I'm not gonna hunt down there. We're gonna have you know we have a ranch down there, so we do have animals, we've got goats and chickens, and we uh will have cattle there, so we're gonna do all that down there. Uh fish, you know, we'll definitely go into uh into the water, and you know, there's uh mackerel, tuna down there, barracuda. There's some delicious and uh and to me, seafood is the most important food. If anybody gets anything out of this one conversation, it's to eat a lot of seafood. Seafood is the single most important food we can eat.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:15

We eat even shrimp, clams, oysters, all of it. But aren't they the cockroaches of the sea?

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:19

Uh, you know, I mean, they they say that, you know, but uh I don't even know if a cockroach at the sea is a bad thing. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:27

I mean that's well, because well, I remember back whenever I when I first started learning about all kinds of crazy stuff. I remember I saw a doctor speak in 1988. His name was Dr. Ted Brower. You ever heard of him?

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:37

I have not.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:37

He is I have you and him remind he's extreme. Yeah. And he was like, these are the ten things you should never eat. Um, and and those ten things, you know, diet soda, aspartame, uh, deli meats, you know, alcohol, cigarettes. And one of them was like, Shellfish? Shellfish. He said, because of the mercury and because of all the garbage that floats to the bottom of the sea, that's what they eat. Now, fish and other things like that, yeah. But he was very against uh shellfish.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:06

Yeah, I mean, so you know, we've tested those things and I've tested my metals and stuff like that, and uh, I don't find it to be a problem. Shrimp, oysters, uh, lobster, crab, uh, and the like. As long as they're good from good sources, I think that were that we're good. Some people would say, you know, they would worry about some of the metals in these things. I haven't really seen much uh metal contamination. I think if you go for like, you know, large tuna, shark, swordfish, uh Chilean sea bass, halibut, those can be metals, but I'm much more concerned about plastic, for example. So our ancestors came across the metals. Like, so for example, if Shilajit Tar has some level of mercury lead, arsenic cadmium, those elements, again on the periodic table, they've been here since before man was here. They were here first. So we've been around and in those things. And I'm not worried about the mercury that's in wild salmon, for example.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:58

So true. Fascinating. If you think about how exciting it's gonna be for your kids to grow up in Costa Rica in that lifestyle, that's exciting. Much better than a tent in Cape Creek. You know what I mean? You know, listen, uh can't know anything about a tent in Cape Creek, but you're talking about paradise.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:17

Here's here's what makes kids happy being loved. That's it. They just want unconditional love. And if you're giving them hugs and kisses and you're showing and you're spending time with them and you're giving them that that love, that's the best thing that there is. And it doesn't matter if you're in a 15,000-foot square home in Paradise Valley, or you're living in a tiny home with 20 other families in Guatemala or Costa Rica or wherever it's. I mean, they because the kids don't really know any better. Our seven-year-old and four-year-old, uh, they'd love it. They love it. They love it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:01

When they get out there and they get to go spear fishing with dad in Costa Rica, that's gonna be an amazing lifestyle. It's it is amazing swinging from the trees.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:10

But you know, I we feel, and that's why we homeschool slash unschool. I want the kids around us all the time. My wife for sure wants the kids around us all the time. We want to be able to teach them the things that we feel are important. We had children because I love being around my kids just like you love being around. I I love every moment of that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:30

Yeah, I don't ever want my kids to leave. Never.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:33

And and really they shouldn't because they didn't back in the day, right? If we all came from the Middle East, if we all came from the equator, they didn't they didn't leave and well, now it's time for you to go, you know, halfway across the world. You know, you're here in Phoenix, Scottsdale, and now it's time for you to go to Miami. Like, no, they didn't. They found another tent or another structure or another cave right over there. And we were multi-generational, and that's so wonderful. The whole idea, well, now they're 18. Now they got to go off to college. Now they gotta do no, they don't have to do any of that. And let's get that out of their heads. Yeah, you're right. Let's get that out of their heads.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:17

I feel like one of the benefits of the whole COVID shutdown was that something happened to kids because your kids are a lot younger than mine, but mine were like in the high school, just about to graduate. And I think it's also one of the positives of video games is that a lot of them don't like to go out drinking, they like to stay home and chill. And I think that was such a positive because I love having my kids at home. Now, they've gone to college, some of them are in college, some and one of them's home, and I just love it. I don't ever want like a I have a five-bedroom house because I want them all to live and have a house and stay there as long as possible.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:50

Yeah, no, I'm I'm with you. And I think the, I mean, that's true. That is one blessing out of that whole thing. Uh, and there weren't many blessings that came out of it, but even just for other people, I guess, where it's just like, yeah, let's honker down at home. And yeah, we could watch TV, but maybe we bring out, you know, break out the Monopoly game. Uh, maybe we just, you know, grab a deck of cards. Like, that's what we do. Right. We read books, we play with decks of cards, we don't do video games.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:17

We had that, we had a place up in Pine Top, and the rules was no electronics growing up. Because also, growing up here in Arizona, summertime here was so hot, and there was such a deficiency in nature that we would go to Pine Top and we would fish and we would ice block and we would play kick the can and we play hide and seek and do those kind of things out in the woods. I thought it was really important for them to get that. Because here you're in the mall, you're air conditioned, you're never outside, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:47

You know, well, how many people didn't get that, right? How many people didn't give that to the city?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:52

But I'm talking about my my kids' whole childhood, that's what we did. Yeah, we made sure that they were grounded barefoot running around doing that stuff, and they'll and they'll they'll live a better life because of it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:02

I believe it. I mean, they really, really will. Every little bit is tremendous. Um, thanks for being on my podcast, man. No, it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:10

So let's go to the website real quick.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:12

Uh naturalheartdoctor.com. And then uh from there, yeah, I'm all over. So books are up there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:20

So oh yeah, social media. So your social media is crazy. So what is it natural health doctor there?

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:24

Yeah, natural heart doctor over there, like natural underscore heart underscore doctor. People will find me. Just Google my name and you'll see some good stuff. You'll see some bad stuff uh about me. I've been very outspoken on all these different things. You can see bad stuff about you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:38

Uh if I Google reviews about you, I can't believe what people write, dude.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:42

Well, I mean, again, there's always gonna be haters.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:44

You know, my dad told me no matter how successful you get, people will always want to bring you down. Always. So you gotta you just gotta let that stuff bounce off of you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:53

Uh you do. I mean, and again, we've developed, you know, very, you know, thick scan about all these different things for sure. And social media I really use because, as I said, heart disease is the number one killer in the world still. So if I'm not out there on the stump all the time, then people are dying. People are going for dangerous procedures, they're taking dangerous pharmaceuticals. The life expectancy is 76. When my wife is so involved with you know, fertility, pregnancy, children, she's always on the stump because we're saving lives every single day. And it's not cliche. It's like, and the more the more we talk about this, the better the health is gonna be. Because the other side, the pharmaceutical side, as you know, number one, you know, uh you know, industry and and advertiser. Yeah, how how do you how does mainstream media handle someone who's gonna come out and talk anti-pharma? They don't handle it well. And I learned that in 2015 when I was on CNN. So people can Google that if they want to see a little bit a little bit about what I've been through. And I told you when I met you last week about some of that. And you know, uh, you step out and you get death threats, you get a lot of people coming at you saying a lot of different things, but ultimately I'm a freedom guy. You know, it's like, hey, let me be free to do what I'm gonna do with my body. You're free to do what you want with your body, uh, and I'll go and we'll see who lives longer.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:29

By the way, you said when you first started that you went to this um coffee shop this morning, you said it was an organic coffee shop. What's it called?

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:35

So we went to uh Firefly Coffee, which is uh fairly new. It is up in Scottsdale off of Pima, and there's a lot of good, you know, coffee shops. Just off of Via de Ventura. Oh, right by there by Lucy's. So it's kind of in that area. It's it's almost like in a business center. And they actually, it's the people from Jigsaw Health. So they started off with Jigsaw Magnesium, and then they they have like a pickle indoor pickleball club.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:03

No, but I do their I do their electrolytes sometimes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:05

Yeah, and now and now, you know, again, they're doing that. So really good people over there, Patrick.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:08

I didn't know that pick that that pickleball stuff was from here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:11

Yeah, no, it's Jigsaw? Uh Jigsaw, you know, they did that over there, so they're really good people. Patrick and his wife uh just saw them over there. So they just started their own coffee? Uh they have their own coffee over there, and they do a lot of food by uh Chef Stacy from Amelia's. Uh they have a lot of that stuff in their in their pantry and some other you know, goodies. And it's all, I mean, and it's again, it's like a you know, go to organic spot. I mean, I love coffee. I gave you a couple bags of cardiology coffee. I'll give myself a shameless plug here, right? So I mean, whatever you do, just do it organic. Like it's coffee's coffee's. I started drinking co I started drinking coffee when I was 10, and it was, you know, we talked about just like the garbage coffee of what existed when we were children. But the idea that coffee is heart healthy, and I want people to understand that coffee drinkers live longer, live better. Uh, like I told you before, I don't push people to drink coffee, but they should drink coffee. If they like coffee, drink it, be happy about it, but drink the good stuff, organic, mold, mycotoxin-free, glyphosate-free. That's really what the key is there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:12

Holy smokes. Wait. Uh, so you tell me I've been drinking this jigsaw pickleball stuff, and these people are from here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:18

Yeah, they're local. They're local, yeah. It makes me feel so good. Yeah, I know. Great.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:21

Uh because I like their stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:24

That's awesome. Man, uh, are they a huge company?

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:26

No, no, no. I mean, it's a small, it's a small coffee shop. It's in a new.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:30

No, but the pickleball stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:31

The pickle they're uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:32

I haven't played pickleball there because again they play pickleball, but their product is pickleball. Like they've got a pickleball electrolyte. I don't know about it. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:39

I don't know. I mean, I know they started off as as a magnesium, as a magnesium product, and then I think they more from jigsaw magnesium. Uh, what's the magnium? Jigsaw health, and then they have pickleball courts. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:51

Wait, what's their magnesium? I wonder if I take it. I drink uh I drink uh I take two scoops of this magnesium powder every night.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:57

I don't know. I think it's called screenshot it, send me a picture. I'll see I'll see what it is. But uh, and but yeah, to be honest with you, regarding pickleball, if I'm gonna play pickleball, with all due respect to them, I'm gonna play outside.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:09

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:10

Like we're we're in Arizona. And the fact that, you know, when people talk about sauna health, yeah, sauna is great, but you also, you know, Arizona is a sauna. You know, one of the one of the the tagline on our on our cardiology coffee is roasted in Arizona, because it is roasted here. We get it from a a local uh roastery here. Roasted in Arizona, like the rest of us.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:32

So well, I I drink coffee, but I've never ground my own beans. So I'm so I love your coffee. I love that you gave it to me. I haven't had it yet. I'm buying a grinder. And then when I went to go buying the grinder, it's like, don't get one with plastic because I'm trying to so I gotta find a good brand.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:47

Okay, well, a little, I guess a little hack with that is that if you have a nice blender, so like a Vitamix is known to be the so just blend the beans in the grind the beans in the Vitamix blender.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:59

Okay, I'm gonna do that tomorrow morning.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:00

You paid all the money for the Vitamix, go ahead and use it. So that pulverizes uh uh the beans right there. Try and do it as fresh as possible. Ideally, you would grind them in the morning uh when you're drinking the coffee. And I would say, you know, three to four cups is the sweet spot for coffee before noon. That's what the literature tells us. Again, I'm not pushing people who like to drink one cup. I'm not saying step it up. I'm just saying coffee is heart healthy. The sweet spot appears to be three to four. And then you when when you when you get the K cups, again, that's all plastic. When you use a coffee maker, it's all plastic. So ideally you would do a pour-over method, and the beans, when you grind them just before, they have less uh chances of becoming what's called oxidized. The delicate oils that are in the bean or the seed as it as it is become rancid, and that again can lead to like they they become stale. They, in chemical terms, they oxidize. And that oxidation process is a lot where people are talking about seed oils. And they're like, oh, you know, we're against seed oils, seed oils, because they're very high in rancidity or the oxidized process, and we incorporate that into our cell membranes, our mitochondrial membranes, other organelles inside of our cells, and it leads to uh sickness. So, yeah, that's a long way away.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:17

And Firefly does good coffee.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:20

Uh Firefly, I mean again, it's you know, it's organic coffee, it does uh look like it comes from Honduras. I haven't really quizzed them. We happen to go there just because we were coming off hiking up in Pinnacle Peak, and then we said, okay, let's go down there. Uh, they also sell raw milk.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:38

So raw milk hopefully is something that the current administration on a federal level makes legal, like make raw milk legal again, like our ancestors used to drink. It's probably gonna be a state-by-state issue. There are other places we can get raw milk here in Arizona, and they sell there. So that was kind of a thing like, okay, let's go to get some uh organic coffee and drink some raw milk at their place while we're gonna grab some internet and get some work done.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:05

There's a butcher shop uh in Arcadia. I think it's called Arcadia Butcher Shop that sells raw milk and their beef is organic and grass-fed and stuff. It's pretty good stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:13

Yeah, I think they get their some some of their stuff from Arizona, grass-fed and stuff like that. Again, like these are the questions we have to ask. I mean, it's uh and it's so critically important to ask these questions.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:24

All right, thanks, Doc.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:25

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:31

Okay, so welcome to our podcast. This is a little bit different today because this podcast is a spin-off of our radio show.