Episode 40- From Long Island To Kyiv: How A Wine Guy Ended Up Delivering Ambulances

A backpack to Nepal set the course for a life spent solving hard problems with simple tools. We sit down with entrepreneur and civic operator Christopher Fussner to map how a Jesuit-rooted mobile clinic program expanded to five hubs and roughly 150,000 patient visits a year, using local sisters, schoolhouses as pop-up clinics, and low-cost medicines sourced in Nepal and India. The model is lean, replicable, and deeply human—proof that small teams can deliver big health outcomes without waiting for massive bureaucracies to move.

From there we widen the lens to U.S. soft power and what happens when it shrinks. Chris shares a ground-level view of USAID’s retreat, the impact on groups like IRI and NDI, and why election observation and refugee support matter for credibility abroad. Then we tackle the 2025 national security strategy: rebuilding industrial strength, investing in chips, AI, biotech, and quantum, and asking Europe to carry more of the defense burden. It’s a candid assessment of where America should lean in and where allies must step up.

Ukraine brings policy down to pavement. Chris walks us through buying used ambulances across Europe, driving them to Kyiv and near the front, and why air defense, long-range fires, and drone innovation could let Ukraine automate the fight and hold the line without European boots on the ground. We also look east: freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, a major arms package to Taiwan, Japan–Korea cooperation, ASEAN’s limits, and Australia’s growing role through AUKUS and Pacific partnerships. Throughout, the throughline is practical: real deterrence pairs hard power with visible, humane presence.

If this conversation expands your view of what’s possible—whether in a Nepali mountain village or along a contested border—follow the show, share it with a friend who cares about global affairs, and leave a review to help others find it.

Transcript

Opening And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Greenfield Report with Henry A. Greenfield, your gateway to understanding today's geopolitical landscape. With 50 years of experience across 10 countries, Henry shares expert insights on world affairs, offering practical solutions, and engaging guest perspectives. Dive into the Greenfield Report for lively discussions on the issues that matter.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

This is Henry R. Greenfield with a special edition of the Greenfield Report. Today we are with Mr. Christopher Fussner, entrepreneur, passionate deliverer of medical services to some of the poorest people in the world, now totaling over several million over the past 30 years, especially in Nepal. A man whose career has ranged around the globe, from Africa to Asia to Europe and many places in between. Originally from good old Long Island and now in Singapore, over 38 years there, he continues to be a force for good over evil around the world. And definitely Chris is somebody out there for the betterment of all. We are also privileged to be able to do this very rare interview with Chris, whom I have known for 45 years, since we studied Mandarin together at Thunderbird in the early 1980s. Our paths have continued to cross again and again, as while we are on different sides of the proverbial aisle, with Chris's contacts, including good friendships with the former Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, to prime ministers, to the current president of Bangladesh, where he will be an election observer in the coming months. Chris has truly done it all. But don't let me tell you all of his stories, as this could go on for hours. Instead, let's hear from the man himself, Mr. Christopher Fussner. Welcome to the Greenfield Report.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Great to be here, Bob. It's been uh only a few months since we talked about this in Singapore. And uh great to be part of your of your podcast and and share some of my experience in in Asia.

Nepal Mobile Clinics And Model

SPEAKER_02 2:12

I first went to Asia in 1973 uh with a backpack, uh went uh went overland through the Khyber Pass and then lived in Nepal for uh for five months. There I met an American Jesuit, Father Watran, who Robert also knows, and he had a medical mobile clinic program there, and it went to one location. But over the last, I'd say, 30 years, uh we've expanded it now to uh five locations, and we normally get about 150,000 patient visits a year. And we go into the poorest of the poor areas in mountain areas in Nepal, and uh we do it with these uh, God bless them, these Catholic sisters that go in four-wheel drive vehicles and drive along the Hail Mary Highway. You know how the roads are in Nepal, and uh reach the parts of the poor. So that was the beginning. And then when I went to GW, I quickly got into, you know, Asian studies, China policy, China language. One of my uh classmates back then was has become America's top China expert. His name is David Chambau, and he's written a book recently, Breaking the Engagement: How China Won and Lost America. A truly great read.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Well, Chris, that's quite an introduction. As you know, uh, I also have some background in uh Nepal, and uh I think it's a remarkable thing that people, I know you don't promote this very much, let's be honest. You're very uh modest about this, but at 150,000 people that you serve on average a year, and you've been doing that over you know 25, 30 years now, it's an extraordinary accomplishment. And if you could just for a moment explain to listeners, because I think, Chris, this is moving forward a way for the United States and also for NGOs and for individuals to make a major difference in terms of uh providing health care to the poorest of the poor. And I don't mean any longer through big agencies like USAID, which no longer exists, but people like yourself, this is an amazing effort to get that much health care out there uh all by yourself, basically. Can you explain how that's done?

SPEAKER_02 4:59

It's relatively easy. Uh for many years I worked with the Jesuits in Nepal. Uh recently, the Jesuits have uh not wanted to do this program, so I had to move it to Caritas. But uh it's it's very simple. I I write a check, uh, send money over through a

Scaling Care Without Big Bureaucracies

SPEAKER_02 5:25

U.S. entity and Caritas, and then uh the sisters get funding on uh four-wheel drive vehicles, and every day, but six days a week, they go to these remote villages where they have, they're invited, they have uh local connections with local people. Usually we use uh schools to have these uh meetings, uh, have these uh health clinics. And every once in a while we do a health camp where we go to a very, very, very remote area, and that's when you see some people with significant health issues, and the general health is not all that good. So we try to get out and reach the porous of the poor, and uh and we're looking to expand the program uh and then see how it goes. Uh we only use pill, liquid, and uh uh like creams, so nothing injectable, but we go through many people. So if someone is very seriously ill, we uh refer them to a district uh uh hospital, and but we do keep an eye on them, and if they need any medicine or any help, then we'll help them out.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

One of the fascinating things about that, uh, Chris, and uh we have a colleague of ours, uh Mr. Richard Helpe, who's been working with a guy called Nate Kaufman uh in the United States, looking at the U.S. system, which is very expensive, as you know. And what has always fascinated me about your situation was how you have been able to use everything from uh medicines from India, which are way less expensive, pharmaceuticals from India uh than let's say the United States. And my point here is that the federal government is not involved uh in any way. In fact, you have very minimal uh government involvement, and yet you are able to serve a lot of people. Do you think that this could be used as a model in other countries, or is this simply a one-off that you have created?

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Okay, I have to tell you this. Uh I had an idea a few years ago of going to the Jesuit uh uh Secretary General in Rome and telling them my story and seeing if they could photocopy this around the world, where you have a wealthy or a group of okay people contributing money to the Jesuits, and the Jesuits do admin, and then they work with groups of of Catholic sisters or lay people, whoever, and and deliver uh basic health care to a goodly amount of people. You have to realize when you go into rural areas, not everyone's sick. You only have like 2% of the population sick. Most of them are in pr in pretty good shape. So uh yeah, I think it's I think it's uh actionable. Uh now, by the way, a lot of the medicines are made in Nepal. And they're and the cost is is uh is negligible. And we use most common medicines like uh antibiotics,

The Fall And Future Of U.S. Soft Power

SPEAKER_02 9:06

salves, creams, things like that, cough cough syrup, cough medicine. But uh when you sit down and you look at people coming, you see some guy coughing, so you know he has a cold or he smokes too much or someone's holding their leg and they have arthritis, and you know, uh after a while you can sort of diagnose uh the patients. But uh anyhow, I'll be going to Nepal again in uh November. I was uh just there in uh a month ago.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

So, Chris, you went to see them, uh I guess to in Italy, to Rome, you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

No, I haven't. I was thinking about doing it. I have not done it.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Okay. And let's just say that that actually uh worked. Uh, do you think that they would be capable of doing that, let's say in, I don't know, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 countries uh around the world? Is that possible?

SPEAKER_02 10:05

You would need to get a champion somewhere to do it. You would need someone, either a Jesuit or someone in the Vatican, uh who would want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Well, I think you have a great method there, and I'm very keen on uh seeing that done. In fact, I'm going to talk to uh Mr. Helpie about this, and maybe you can be on his program and discuss this uh specifically with some of the healthcare experts, because to me, the the days of large agencies out of the United States government uh are over. Would you you agree with that? I don't think that's coming back.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Unfortunately, I think you're correct. One of the things I disagree with vehemently, with the, and you know I'm a Republican, I disagree with the Trump administration is getting rid of uh U.S. aid. Okay, you have to realize during the Obama administration, aid was really gone a little a little crazy, a little DEI. Then there was a gentleman who I know, Mark Green. Mark Green used to be head of IRI, International Republican Institute. So he was tasked with taking over USAID uh after Biden. So uh what he did uh well after Obama. So what he did is he got the uh uh he he got the uh budget from 40 billion down to 20 billion, okay, with with uh Obama. Then he got it down to 20 billion. But what happened is uh Samantha Power, who wrote a great book, uh the problem from hell on genocide, she took AID and went from 20 billion to 40 billion and had all these DEI programs in it, all this fluff. And that's why, unfortunately, you

National Security Strategy 2025 Overview

SPEAKER_02 12:21

had Elon Musk with his chainsaw and destroyed uh USA. Uh USA did great work uh with food aid. Like I used to work with them in West Africa in Wagadougou, now called Burkina Fossil, and uh and they did great work with refugees on the uh Thai Burmese border, on the and and with all the refugees, food aid, and then USAID also funded democracy programs, which are very important, including NED, National Endowment for Democracy, and IRI, which is the International Republican Institute, and NDI, which is National Democratic Institute, which is Democratic Party. All of these were started after uh President Reagan's famous Westminster speech, and IRI was the, I don't know, the uh the uh the child, the the program of Senator John McCain.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

You know, a lot of people get lost, uh, especially Americans, do not understand all these various organizations that you're talking about here, which you have worked with for half a century. Uh, and I think that a lot of them provide a lot of good. Some of them get some funding uh from uh the U.S. government. What is going to happen with those kinds of uh of organizations? IRI and and the rest of those moving forward, are they dependent a little bit on U.S. government support?

SPEAKER_02 14:06

IRI and NDI used to get support from U.S. aid, which has ended, but NED got money from the U.S. via the U.S. Senate from the U.S. government directly. So, but IRI and NDI had to seriously cut back on their programs. They had to lay off at least 75% of their staff. They had to close down programs in Nepal, Bangladesh, and a number of other countries. So what I've done with IRI uh in the past and also in the future is I've gone on election observation missions. First one I did was Mongolia, then I did Timor Lest, then it was uh Tunisia, and then uh Moldova. So these were important uh missions, and I've just did two pre-election missions, one to Bangladesh and the other one to Nepal. And I'll be uh if my health uh uh hangs in there. Unfortunately, I got pneumonia when I was in Nepal. Uh uh I'm I'm slated to go and do the uh election observation mission in Bangladesh. I've known Mohammed Yunus for about 20 years because I've been supporting the Grameen Bank internship program at the George Washington University.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Chris, how many people would you say uh are like you that are doing this? Never mind. I I assume most Republicans are are who you mostly are working with, but are there a lot of people like that uh doing this type of effort? Or are you like just one of the few out there? Because I mean it's such a uh laudable set of activities that you're working on. And again, I'm always trying to look for solutions that you know can be replicated beyond the individual, or is that just not possible?

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Okay, part of it,

Europe’s Defense Burden And NATO Spend

SPEAKER_02 16:20

IRI would would still get, or NDI would still get some funding. So you have their their local people, which they'll take back on contract. Then you have volunteers like myself, and you know, the the missions are maybe like in Bangladesh, you'll maybe be 15 people, and uh the other missions were maybe 20, 25 people, uh so bigger than that. Moldova, it was uh a larger mission, but you also have to remember in certain countries, you'll also have other missions financed by Swedish development, financed by the EU, or financed by like uh some of the German foundations, like the Konrad Adenhauer Foundation.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

So, Chris, this change in soft power, people talk about that a lot. Do you think that this is uh going to uh lessen uh the United States' uh influence around the world if we are not funding this kind of soft power? Never mind the fact that I understand about you know Stephanie Powers and she was uh doing a lot of things that that bloated uh or changed the mission of USAID. But just in general, is this going to lessen uh the U.S. soft power influence around the world if the U.S. government is not doing this any longer?

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Uh yes, it already is, like on the Thai Burma border. And people people have noticed worldwide that a lot of these programs have been canceled. I was I was in the U.S. Embassy in Dhaka and meeting uh people there, and we had to go from one section of the embassy to the other, and the person with us said, oh, this is where U.S. aid used to be. So there was like 10, 10 empty rooms.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Wow, that's a significant change. That leads us to uh, you know, we have our those subjects that I would like to uh you to cover, but basically, uh let's jump into that right now with the national, the new national security uh uh policy strategy for 2025. Uh, I think you're quite familiar with that. I think you even know the author of it. You were explaining that to me a little bit earlier today. How does that strategy affect the United States, not just internationally, but the U.S. standing in the world? Is that something that is going to be a positive thing for the United States? Or because it is somewhat a dramatic change, is it not? Yes and no.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

I've read through it a few times, and it's it is America first policy. And it does make the the policy does make some sense. The person who wrote it is Dr. Nadia Shadlow, and she wrote it for Trump in 2017. So certain aspects make sense and should have been addressed a while ago. One was

Ambulances To Ukraine: Field Logistics

SPEAKER_02 19:45

free trade, and how uh, you know, having China go into the World Trade Organization, and this free trade was only a one way free trade, and it hollowed out America's industrial. Uh might and and towns in the Midwest, et cetera. So it did have a major negative effect on the United States. And Trump wants to sort of bring it back. At the same time, he says U.S. technology, we have to start putting money in U.S. technology. So, you know, the CHIPS Act, which was uh uh Senator Schumer and Senator Todd Young, I know Todd Young for a few years, uh, this is getting back into American tech. So a few of the things he mentioned in what she mentioned in this thing is protect American citizens, protect American assets, and protect even American allies. So some of it is, some of it really makes sense. He wants the paper wants to go into AI, biotech, and quantum, where we are lagging. You know, I'm I'm very good friends with a quantum physicist in Singapore, he's Greek, and uh and he tells me China is really catching up super fast, and they're dumping billions of dollars into quantum computing, quantum physics. So some of the stuff is uh is pretty good. So another thing that he mentions is fairness, okay? Europe has gotten a free ride from us for how many years? 50 years? And it's only recently that he told the Europeans you're gonna hit 5%. So some Europeans, like Germany, are hitting 5%. But you have to realize Spain and Italy are still at 2 and 3 percent.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

You're talking about their uh GDP for defense.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yeah, GDP for defense, which is which is the their contribution, i.e., to NATO. So it's not just U.S. forces and U.S. planes and tanks there.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

So if you look at this, Chris, um by the way, I've also read it. Uh I'm not sure how many people have. It's actually not a bad read at all. It's only it's it's 33 pages. And quick, you go quick. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you you go right through it. And 90% of it, I think it's uh hard to argue with it, right? It's like it's like anything though, with uh, in my view, with Trump of reading the tea leaves, right? He's he's uh you know, he's got the broad outline and you know, America First, all the things you said on AI and every other thing, but I think you're also a very strong internationalist, right? Yes, and and so I my question to you is it seems to me, and tell me, hey, you're wrong, you know, Robert, you're wrong on this, but my it seems to me that this is somewhat of a retreat back to the Western hemisphere, and it's telling Europe, hey, you sort out what you want to do in Europe. I'm I don't want to be there anymore. We don't want to be your backers anymore. We'll be in your wingman, maybe, right? And that's manifested. We'll get into it in just a moment about uh Ukraine.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

What what what okay? Well, I think it is, I think it's Trump's negotiation style.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

That's what I think. And it's worked. It's worked. So recently

Frontline Deliveries And Risks

SPEAKER_02 23:40

you have to see Germany is now committed to 5%. Germany just put in a conscription law, which is not very popular, because Germany realizes that they have to do more for their own defense. I think America will always be there for Europe, but I think Europe has to do a lot more for Europe. As they say in America, belly up to the bar.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Think about that for a while. You know better than anyone because you're also, uh, I don't want to say good friends, but you are certainly uh know John Bolton quite well. Yes. I know that you speak to him uh people like Mr. Bolton, uh, former national security advisor, uh quite often. You you have strong views on the United States and there are 800 currently, 800 bases around the world. So let's take that Trump National Security Strategy 2025 and the good doctor that you mentioned uh earlier. And are we going to see bases closed? Are we going to see less emphasis in certain areas? And is that a good thing?

SPEAKER_02 24:56

There's been no bases closed. I talked to a friend of mine today in Greece, the quantum physicist. He lives like five miles from Suda Bay. Suda Bay is the largest U.S. naval uh base in uh in the Mediterranean. So there's no bases are not closing. I have not heard anything. I think the whole point is Trump wants the Europeans to do more. And the Europeans are doing more. They just came out with a $105 billion loan for Ukraine, where, you know, the the Europeans were lagging. The Germans would not release Taurus missiles to the Ukrainians. As you know, I've been to Ukraine four times since the war. First time was a political meeting where we met uh Portochenkov and uh other people and other political parties. Then I got involved in this group called Ukraine Focus, which delivers ambulances to Ukraine. So I funded it. A gentleman named Brock Berman is in charge of it. It was his brainchild. I was introduced to Brock by one of Poroshenko's aides, and that's how I got to know him.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

You've got to tell that story a little bit. You're making it sound pretty normal, but tell it, tell our listeners what you did. You picked up the ambulances, and then what did you do?

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Okay, so one thing they have to buy the ambulances. These are used ambulances, and you get them from all over Europe. And uh a lot of the European cities, when the ambulance is 10 years old, they they get rid of it. But the ambulance is still good. I've driven them, right? They're still, you know, a lot of ambulances don't get a lot of work because they only get work when they get a call. So they're not like they're not like taxi cabs where they're constantly on the go. So, anyhow, uh the first mission, we uh we picked them up in Koshysh in Slovakia and then drove them across the Ukraine border uh to Kyiv. And then we went all the way down to Pokrussk

What Ends The War In Ukraine

SPEAKER_02 27:20

in Dombosk. And uh I understand you got pretty close to the front lines, huh? No, we were we were maybe 25 miles, 50 kilometers or so from the front lines. That's still relatively close. Well, it's it's close if a drone sees you, or it's drone, if it's close as a Shahid missile hits you. But we couldn't hear anything, and we couldn't smell anything. But when you, you know, you go through all these uh roadblocks and people, okay, okay, go, go, go. But the last roadblock that went into Pokrovsk, it was the uh of course we had our our escort officer who is an officer in the TDF, the territorial defense force, who gets the ambulances and he has all the paperwork, he has all, he is, he's in uniform, he's a doctor. And uh, but it was like basically, what are you doing here? So you drop off the uh ambulances at a uh military base, which is now it's a converted school, because you can't have schools that close to the front line. And and the town at that time was relatively empty. Now it's uh it's it's a battered shell and it's very heavy fighting. So as an aside, this is the town and the area that Putin wants to take over. But there's been so many Ukraine lives, but many, many more Russian lives have been lost for that uh piece of uh territory.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

I think for the listeners, the the best part I like about this, how many times have you done this now, taking in ambulances from different points in Europe, driving them into the first one was Kochish to uh Pokhrosk.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

The second one we went uh Brock Berman has a friend in his battlefield and monuments commission. So we got very good seats at the 80th anniversary of D-Day, and then from Utah Beach, we drove 45 ambulances across Europe into Kyiv and into uh uh basically a military base outside of Kiev. And then the third mission, we went from Belgium, and we went from Belgium to Kyiv. Then I took, we took two more ambulances from Kyiv to a town called Shotska, which again is 50 miles from the uh uh 50 kilometers from the front line.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Well, I hope you have a couple of shots of vodka along the way in order to fortify you as you get uh No, no, we're driving vehicles, so no shots of vodka.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Uh when we're finished, yes, there's shots of vodka.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Thank you. Yeah, one of the things that we see, as long as we're burrowing in here on this one, uh, this has allowed you to go deep into uh Ukraine. And I know from you and I speaking about this, you have a very strong feelings about the support uh for Ukraine. And I'd like to ask you, where is as this Europeanizing of the war happens, the $105 billion package, which you and I have already discussed, in that yes, it's uh Europe is now stepping up, bellying up to the bar, as you say. What actually is going to happen here? What is going to stop this war?

Drones, Patriots, And Automating War

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Is it going to actually grind on until Putin gets what he wants? Or will there be European boots on the ground to stop it? Or what's going to stop this war?

SPEAKER_02 31:21

This is what I think. And it's only me thinking. Okay. Uh the negoti okay, the first of the those 28 points were quickly, it was a negotiation uh ploy, a negotiation strategy. So a few things. One, uh Putin would not agree to many of the of the points. And uh uh the Ukrainians would not agree to releasing territory in Donbass and releasing territory uh that has been illegally conquered by Russia. So that's the sticking point. And Putin will not continue with the with the negotiations until that Putin wants that area. And Putin today said, if if you don't give it to me by negotiation, I'm gonna take it. So uh so what's gonna happen? I think the war is gonna continue. I think the but the Ukrainians are getting tired, but the Russians are getting tired. The Russians have almost suffered a million casualties. The Russians, when they were in Afghanistan, had, I guess, about uh 50, 60,000 casualties, sort of like what we had in Vietnam. But this is on the this is on a much greater scale. The uh the Ukrainians, you have to realize Ukraine had an aircraft manufacturing history. The Anotov, which is the world's largest cargo plant, was made outside of Kyiv. So you have people that are aeronautical engineers and software engineers, electronic engineers, etc. So now uh Kyiv has the uh these submergible boats that just blew up a uh a Russian submarine. They've been blowing up Russian uh uh tankers. They blew up one Russian tanker using a drone off Crete uh two days ago. Uh they have developed their own missile called a flamingo because the paint got screwed up the first time and the missile came out pink like a flamingo. So they're developing and they're developing their own drone technology. So I've started so I've started studying drone technology, and and Ukraine has some pretty good drone technology and anti-drone technology, too.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Yes, they yes, they do. I I get that. I didn't mean to interrupt you there, but what I wanted to ask you is this. You just said, I think the key, the key words here. Uh number one, Ukraine's population, you know perfectly well, it's dropped from 51 million in the early 1990s, it's down to 37 million today.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Yeah, of course. Okay, immediately you had uh Ukraine, uh men, women, and children, but a lot of uh women and children went to safe haven countries and went to Germany, UK, United States, Canada,

Lines That Can And Cannot Be Crossed

SPEAKER_02 35:00

all over the world. So but there's still there's still people okay, when you go drive into uh Ukraine, you go to Lviv. Look, Lviv is a beautiful functioning town. You walk around Kyiv, Kyiv is fine. You have restaurants, you have cafes, you have people on bicycles. When you drive in, you know, in the western part of uh Ukraine, you see some guy at five o'clock walking his cow back to the barn. So it's in the battle zone where you see the destroyed cities. Like I went to Bucha, and Bucha is the town north of Kiev that the Russians couldn't take Kiev, so they basically blew up uh Bucha and they had a massacre at Bucha of civilians.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

So, Chris, just taking that one step further, you're basically saying to me, Ukraine, let's just put it out there. Ukraine can hold out if they get this money, if they get the aid, if they get more uh you know defensive uh weapons from uh from the Europeans, they can hold out. So let's just say that's true. But Putin, to me, he's like a Hitler. He's just gonna, you just said, you know, 50,000 they lost in Afghanistan, and that was enough. They ran away. He's got a million casualties, he's not going anywhere. Is Putin that that type of personality, a Hitlerian personality that he will.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

So what's his background? What's a what he's he's a KGB uh agent. Fiona Hill, who was Trump's first Russian advisor during the first uh time, is uh is a Russian expert, wrote a biography on Putin, which I've read. Interesting. Unfortunately, the section when he was in a KGB agent in Dresden was relatively light, actually missing. But yeah, that's his that's his personality. So he's gonna just keep going down the road. So I'm what I'm trying to get here is unless it comes to the point where he realizes that, unless if especially if the Ukrainians can start retaking territory and with increased firepower and increased patriot missiles for defense, so Kiev and the apartment buildings don't get hit. Uh this is uh essential. When you go to the there's a uh uh uh uh airport in Reshawa in southern Poland, and this is where the C-17s land with USAID. I've been to that airport, and there's eight Patriot missile systems ringing the airport. So, you know, once you get some Patriot missile systems more into Ukraine, more firepower into Ukraine, you're gonna have to, the Ukrainians already know what they have to do. They have to automate the war because they don't have the population. If they

Asia Strategy: First Island Chain And Taiwan

SPEAKER_02 38:20

can automate the war through missile and drone technology, then they have a shot.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

As far as you're concerned, uh Ukraine can automate the war, can push them back and eventually uh be successful, let's just say. But the question I have here is you do not think that that will require boots on the ground by the Europeans?

SPEAKER_02 38:44

No, because if you put boots on the ground there, you're tr it it's a it's a it's a trigger point. It's a trigger point. And then you'll have Russians, you know, or already the Russians have been very aggressive with the Europeans. There has been drones over every major European airport, Russian drones. There has been sabotage in Germany and in UK, and it's all pointing the finger at Russian sabotage.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

So the bottom line here is you seem to be saying let give Ukraine the means to win this war or to push it to the point where uh Putin has no choice but to actually uh agree to a ceasefire in some kind of demarcation or demilitarized zone. Is that is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Well, it depends on how much territory it's now down to land. They've already, you know, uh it's already been decided that Ukraine will not be a NATO. And it's already been decided that the Ukraine will be in the EU. Now the question comes into a territory that the Russians illegally seized. You have to realize what the history is in this section of the world. The Russians illegally seized two sections of Georgia, and we did nothing under Obama. The Russians have, in effect, seized one section of Moldova with his Russian speakers. Then the Russians seized Crimea and we did nothing. So it's now where they've seized where they invaded Ukraine, where there was some uh Western uh pushback.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

So the bottom line here though, going back, I know I know what you're saying. I totally agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

This is 1939. This is Sudetenland.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

And you believe, though, unlike uh in 1939 Sudetenland, uh, you know, where obviously uh Czechoslovakia had no chance to stop the Germans, you believe that Ukraine, with the right firepower and with the right technology, and with the right support, and the fact that the uh Europeans are Europeanizing this war, they have a chance now.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Yes. Now, what happened about three months ago, the Europeans bought about five billion dollars of U.S. weapon systems. If this happens again and again, this is a good thing. But things have been on hold because people were hoping that this peace negotiation would happen. But the peace negotiation has not happened.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

And what you're saying is, in effect, it cannot happen until Putin is forced into doing that, or in effect, the um uh Ukrainians uh surrender uh more territory, which they've in fact

Japan, Korea, And China’s Pushback

SPEAKER_01 42:05

actually not lost, correct?

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Yeah, but uh they will not they will not uh release that.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Okay, well let's listen. I thank you for that. Uh let's move on to the other subject that uh you are absolutely the expert on, uh having you know your you know your great friend Shambao, you gave me that book to read, and that is how is the United States going to uh look at uh Asia, China, South China Sea, Taiwan, and uh in the interest of time here, is the Trump uh National Security Strategy 2025 uh the right track after some stumbles that you and I have discussed, or not?

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Well, in the in the uh paper, it mentions the first island chain. And it uh mentions uh free navigation, not tolls, not paying tolls through the South China Sea. So they were very they put up their do not do not give us a hard time on the South China Sea. So that's part of the position paper. And then you also have to realize they took a hard line on Taiwan, and two days ago we sold Taiwan $11 billion worth of military hardware, including HIMARS and drones and anti-ship missiles, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And this is not even taking into consideration the Taiwan's own military-industrial complex, which I perceive should be on high high manufacturing alert.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

So if you look, Chris, uh at the additional players here, which is uh Japan, who where um Trump seems to have a good relationship with the new uh leader of Japan, a woman, uh, and then you look at uh South Korea uh and getting them to be more active. What do you think that the China reaction will be from a security point? Not not the economics here, but from a security point of view, the quad is still in effect, even though it looks like Modi's a little bit shaky on his side.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Modi's very shaky. I don't know why the United States tolerates uh him, to be honest. Uh you know, he he wants uh he he he wants uh he wants to date two women at the same time, uh uh Modi and Trump. You know, uh I don't think that's gonna work. Uh so let's let's go back to South Korea and Japan. So the recent uh dust up with uh Japanese prime minister, now there's an economic boycott of tourism, of seafood, and of really buying Japanese products. But they've done this, they did this when TAD missiles went to South Korea. So what's happening now is you're getting Japan is becoming very friendly with South Korea. Japan is also very friendly now and had joint ship uh maneuvers with Philippines and also Vietnam.

ASEAN’s Limits And Border Conflicts

SPEAKER_02 45:35

So uh uh people are acknowledging uh uh China's uh bullying in Asia.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

I totally agree with you on that. It seems to me, though, uh the question that I want to get here is you do feel that Trump uh with this new national security strategy is going to be more effective than he was on, let's say, uh on his kind of ad hoc way of going through Asia the last time and not necessarily being very prepared in dealing with China. And now, in effect, he's recognizing that you know China, he's gonna have to share the world with China, and that's a very different thing than the way that uh the United States was looking at it in the past. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_02 46:24

No, I I think it's not share. I I think the one thing you have to look at is there's an $11 billion arm sale to Taiwan. That is significant. The Chinese are exceedingly upset. It re-arms Taiwan. But you don't see any at any point China actually uh moving on Taiwan in any kind of invasion or I I hope and pray not, because it would turn into more of a uh a regional war, and there'd be a lot of dead people in Taiwan, but there'd be a lot of dead people in uh in China too. It would not be good for the region, it wouldn't be good for China, it wouldn't be good for Taiwan, it would be horrible.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

So there is uh the place that you're living in, Singapore, which is the kind of like one of the core places of ASEAN. And as you took me to several events when I was there, ASEAN is not the EU, and they do not want to be the EU. Does ASEAN have any kind of special role in this, or are they still going to remain kind of a background player uh when it comes to the United States uh in China and the region?

SPEAKER_02 47:46

ASEAN, okay, there's there's ASEAN, which is ASEAN, but then there's the ASEAN nations. Okay, so they're all members of ASEAN, but they all have their independent foreign policy. So ASEAN, right now it's ASEAN's time to shine. Anwar Ibrahim, very good, capable man, is trying to negotiate a peace settlement between Thailand and Cambodia. There's been many people killed on both sides of the border. And of today, the border it's still raging. And uh Thailand is using U.S.-made F-16s to bomb bridges and to bomb military targets in Cambodia. Cambodia is firing these missiles into Thailand. You had, I don't know, almost a million people had to be moved from their homes on both sides of the border. So hopefully ASEAN can at least solve an ASEAN problem. So, but back to what you're saying, each ASEAN country has their own foreign policy, and it's not like EU, where it's uh like a everyone's EU, right? Uh they're all they're all different. They're all very different. So you have to see, so

Australia, AUKUS, And The Pacific

SPEAKER_02 49:10

in vis-a-vis China, okay, so you have a Philippines that's having big problems with China, Vietnam's having problems with China, right? Cambodia is almost a wholly owned subsidiary of China, same with Laos. Exactly. Okay. Thailand is trying to play everybody as the Thais always do. They are being friends with America and friends with uh China. Singapore is being very friendly with China, but at the same time, you have to realize Changi Navy Base is was built to handle aircraft carriers. Singapore has no aircraft carriers. It was built to handle U.S. aircraft carriers, and U.S. aircraft carriers often call on Singapore. And they have ship replenishments and ship repair facilities there.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

So, Chris, before we uh sign off here, is there anything else that you can add with any other players in the region, such as does Australia still have any real significance or are they uh kind of just an outside the the norm?

SPEAKER_02 50:32

No, they they they keep that that section of the world um happy. Uh Australia's sphere of influence is very important with the Pacific nations because the Chinese now are moving into and establishing aid relations and trading relations with important South Pacific nations like uh Vanuatu, Solomon Islands, etc. So, yeah. So Australia has a relatively uh small uh but effective military.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

And they've now they're also investing with the United States and things like AUKUS as well as the Quad.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

So they're buying they're buying nuclear submarines from us. That's a big darn deal. That's not cheap. That's not like buying a you know a 50, 50-foot gunboat, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

So, Chris, if we look at the global strategy uh by Trump, is there anything that there would be different than let's say if there was the Fussner doctrine or the Fussner global strategy? Would you say that yours would be somewhat similar to Trump or and that he's on the right path? Or is there anything significant that you would like to see

Where Fussner Diverges From Trump

SPEAKER_01 52:00

changed moving forward for the United States to remain in its uh dominant position, especially on the security side?

SPEAKER_02 52:09

A few things where where I disagree with Trump and what I would want to do. One, I'd reestate USAID. I think it's important we have USAID. Maybe we we have it at a $10 billion level or $15 billion level, but I think the work of USAID is very important. You have to realize when we withdrew from Cambodia, it was the Chinese went right in. So uh one, I would continue with USAID in terms of food aid, refugee aid, democracy, etc. Second, uh I would support Ukraine more. I'd be less friendly with Putin, uh, and uh I would support Ukraine uh heavily. The Europeans, I think I think we have to continually engage with them, as the president has done. There's been many meetings. You know, of course you read about it, it's like every other week the Europeans are getting together and talking about Ukraine, and then uh and then the US and Trump always uh uh uh meeting the Europeans and and getting that done. So I I think Europe has to uh belly up to the bar and increase defense spending and increase increase aid to uh Ukraine, both financially and militarily.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

So, Chris, I really want to thank you for this uh initial conversation. As you know, we originally had envisioned this as a uh letter from Asia, but to be quite honest, because of your global uh you know expertise, it has turned into uh quite a uh national and global uh security session, as well as some great input. Thank you very much on how to work and how to assist the poor in many places around the world. And I'm really hoping that you have that conversation soon with uh the Jesuits in uh you know at their headquarters uh in Italy so that you can begin to look at different models of working with uh healthcare uh with the poor. So is Chris, there anything else that you'd like to add before we go? Because we're gonna be back here speaking to you again about some of these subjects and drilling down.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

Uh, sure. Uh I'm gonna take up your invitation for me to visit you and uh in France. And uh I have to go to a democracy meeting in Croatia, and then I'm going on another ambulance run from uh Frankfurt Airport to Kyiv, and I have some a bunch of time, so I I've always wanted I'll visit you, and I think I should make a trip to Rome, and I've always wanted to go to Malta. So uh

Closing, Next Steps, And Wine Aside

SPEAKER_02 55:10

I'll see you in uh I'll see you in uh in France, and then we can have another podcast from France.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

It sounds like a great idea, and we cannot leave without noting that that uh Chris Fussner is one of the leading importers of wines from around the world into Singapore and has had a uh developed a wine expertise, uh a sommelier of uh a great, great renown over the last what, Chris, 40, 50 years?

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Well, I've had the wine company for 33 years. But before that, if you remember, I was uh part of the Thunderbird Wine Club, and I had my private champagne society.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Well, we'll have to talk about that another time. This is Henry R. Greenfield signing off, speaking again with Mr. Christopher Fussner, one of the world's uh leading strategists on the international side, ranging from healthcare to uh defense and of course the United States' uh position in it.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

Thank you for joining us on the Greenfield Report with Henry R. Greenfield. We hope today's insights into the ever shifting geopolitical landscape have sparked your curiosity and broadened your perspective. Stay connected with us for more in depth discussions and expert solutions. Until next time, keep exploring the world beyond the headlines.