Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we dive deep into the dynamic world of commercial real estate. I'm your host, Brian Sheehan, and I am thrilled to be your guide on this journey through the bustling streets of retail, the aisles of shopping centers, and the world of property investment. With me today, I have Sri Devel, the founder and principal at The Culinary CMO. Sri launched a new marketing masterclass for restaurateurs that we're going to be discussing today. Sri began her career as a classically trained chef graduating from the celebrated Art Institutes of California and has achieved a level one sommelier rank with the Court of Master Sommeliers. Drew's passion is telling the tale of food experiences that are a true labor of love for the teams that envision and create them. Drew, welcome. How have you been?
Sri Devel:Thank you. I'm so good. I'm so good. How are you?
Brian Sheehan:Great.
Sri Devel:Good.
Brian Sheehan:Yeah, it's good to see you again. It's been a while since we last connected.
Sri Devel:Yes, this is wonderful. Thanks for having me.
Brian Sheehan:A lot of exciting things going on with the culinary CMO. We're going to jump into that in a second, but first I was hoping we could just Start with your background. Did you have a background in the food industry prior to becoming a chef and why'd you become a chef in the first place?
Sri Devel:Yeah. So it's kind of just a love story. I love food. It was always our way of connecting as a family. And it just always was just something that it was intriguing to me. It was definitely like my love language. So restaurants, once I started kind of learning about food and then it was time to go to college and I just said, you know what? It's foods where my passion is. I would always, my mom would always make fun of me because I would always mix like things together. And I was like a mad scientist. And she's like, she always said, she's like, you're going to be a scientist And I'm like, no, I just like food. But it was just one of those things. And then I really wanted to just continue my culinary career. So then I went to the Art Institute. Even as a 14-year-old, my first job was a hostess, and I just loved it. I loved the fast pace, kind of the sense of urgency within the industry. I just fell in love with everything about it. So the more... I'm a learner. So I just, I love to learn every aspect. So if I was going to work in restaurants, I wanted to know how to cook. And so I went to culinary school and then it was actually during my internship where I did, you know, they put you in a kitchen and then I went in a kitchen and it was for the birds. I was like, wow, this is crazy. This is hot. This is a grill. And I said, you know what, I'm going to learn the business side of it now. So then I did the business side. And so I I still love to cook. I can still jump behind the line and help anyone. I've done that throughout my whole career. But it's definitely like the culinary industry as a whole is where my passion lies. So it's really fun.
Brian Sheehan:So when you were a kid, you knew what you wanted to be when you grew up.
Sri Devel:Yeah, I just loved food. I loved going out to eat. It was very glamorous to me. You know, like if you got to go with your family, it was a big night out, you know, going to Shakey's Pizza or like Outback or something like that was what I looked forward to as a kid. I mean, I know some people like Disneyland, but I was steak. I wanted to go eat.
Brian Sheehan:I still feel the same way. It's funny every time we get to go out. I feel like it's A bit of an adventure.
Sri Devel:Right. Like it's like and then that was kind of like the flip side of it. It was like, well, what if I could make someone feel like their night is so special just because they're joining me for dinner? You know, like if they could be welcome at my restaurant, like that's fun. It's a life memory for these people. And so that was always what attracted me to it.
Brian Sheehan:So what led you to create the culinary CMO? What is it and why did you create it?
Sri Devel:Yeah, so we're a marketable. I am a marketing agency that specializes specifically and only in the hospitality industry. So marketing is one of those things that we in the industry, it's, I don't want to say it's a second thought, but we're always, you know, we're operators at heart. So we want to be on the floor, we want to do everything. what I saw time and time again was, um, restauranteurs who are hiring these huge agencies with these huge overheads and, um, nothing was happening. We didn't understand marketing. And so it was one of those things where they would give us these reports and they're like, oh my gosh, look at how much exposure you got. And then, you know, as restauranteurs, I was looking at this piece of paper and I was like, okay, like, but this isn't a quick to dollars. Like I need someone who's like doing the work and doing that. And so it was really during COVID where I just kind of, um, Everyone was kind of leaning into their specialties and coming together. And then, you know, lawyers were hosting con calls and everyone was kind of coming to me saying, hey, like, you know, marketing, this is what you do. Like, can you help? And so that's really where it started. And I really started to lean into it. And then I created the agency and it has just been a blast ever since. So to be able to help restaurants tell their tale to more people, it's just been... Exactly what the culinary CMO does. So we use a multi-channel strategy. So we make the restaurants appear at all places at all times. There's no all eggs in one basket. We basically make you arrive on every platform and we're still workers at heart. Like the hospitality is like, we are still myself. You know, I'm up your hours. And so that was a thing too, where agencies, I was like, Hey, it's black Friday. I need you to start pumping out like, you know, our gift card specials and these agents is we're like, okay, cool. We're closed this weekend. We're like, I need adjustments to my art material and it would take six weeks. Like, you know, us in the hospitality industry, we don't have that luxury. I would love to say we do. And we think so far ahead and, you know, just because of the way our industry is, we tend to- It's got to happen now. So it's, we just, I needed to create something for the restauranteurs that spoke to the restauranteurs and said, I work their hours. I am one of them. So it's like, I understand, you know, and I can try to keep 90% of their messaging standard. So it's easier for them. So that's really, that's where it came about. Long answer to a short question, but that's where it came about. And it's where we found a lot of our success is just, we speak restaurants. We know restaurants. I am a restaurateur. So I understand the need.
Brian Sheehan:Yeah. I mean, it's just, Such a fascinating industry. There's so much happening, changing, especially with costs, competition for space. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the current trends and challenges that you see in the food and beverage industry and how's that influence your work?
Sri Devel:Yeah, absolutely. I don't think it's a surprise, but the rising cost, the rising cost of everything, it's It's crippling at the moment for restaurants. So it is really difficult to, you know, we have penny margins to begin with. And that's something that's kind of plagued our industries forever. But, you know, there's a very... few amount of people who are willing to pay eighty four dollars for steak. So it's one of those things where it's like that's our cost. But, you know, we we can't roll that over to guests, but we still have to offer a steak. So it puts us in a very unique challenge. You know, same with premium products and that type of stuff. You always want to serve the freshest, the best quality of everything, produce, juice, everything. But it's just one of those things where you do have to roll those costs over in effort to last. And then sometimes that doesn't always translate. Everyone is going to the grocery store and they understand like, oh my gosh, I've never spent $300 on food before, but I just did. But then they come to a restaurant and they're like, oh my gosh, your prices are outrageous. But it's just one of those things when the cost of food will go down, our costs will go down as well. But I would say that's the biggest challenge right now. And then that just... It's a challenge to expand. Every restaurateur wants to have six and seven different units, but that's hard to grow when your margins are so limited. So it's the trickle-down effect for sure, but it's just one of those things where I can't really open another store right now because I don't have that surplus of profits to where I can grow my business right now. So that's kind of the challenge that I'm seeing. The big guys will always have those funds, always. They have $200,000. locations across the nation, they'll always have those funds. But for the real true restaurateur who's looking to get, you know, two to 10 within the next 10 years, those are the people who are having the hardest time right now.
Brian Sheehan:So you work with some exciting, innovative and fast growing brands. What are some of the things that they share in common?
Sri Devel:Yeah, absolutely. I'm really lucky to have some amazing brands that I'm able to work with. So I think behind those brands are amazing people. One of the things at the Culinary CMO is you work with me. So I have my hands in every single brand I represent. I'm never going to pass anyone off to a customer service representative or anything like that. But that's one of the things with the brands that I work with. They are all owner-led. And so the owners are still very involved in the company, which is something that's really exciting because you get a fun dynamic of the business that way. You're able to really have an impact. You're able to hate the word pivot, but you're able to pivot to the different needs within the community. So I'm really lucky to work with the brands who are always on the forefront of what's happening and they're able to adjust really quickly because they are owner operated and led. So I would say that's one of the coolest things. Some of the trends are, you know, the international foods have such a moment right now, which is really awesome. So, you know, you can go and everyone wants to have the best, right? So I have the best sushi place or I have the best ramen or, you know, I have all those different types of international foods where everyone's just like, I have the best. And it's really exciting to see that because that's something that the international flavors and influences are really making a big way. So I like to see that. That's always awesome.
Brian Sheehan:I guess the flip side of that tree, what are some of the, you know, you see a lot of restaurants, You guys are out a lot. There's so much change and innovation happening, especially where you're located in Southern California. And what are some of the common mistakes that you see restaurants making, some similarity things that they're doing that's holding them back?
Sri Devel:I would say the flip side of that is just not innovating, not adjusting, not moving. That tends to be something where they're not stuck in their ways as in a bad thing, but it's just like, well, this is my brand. I have to teach people what my brand is. And yes, that does work if you have the luxury of time and money to do so. But sometimes the customers will tell you, one of the companies that I worked for forever ago, a hotel company, they were just like, the customers will tell you what they want and they'll pay for it but you have to listen and that was like feedback is a gift right and so that's one of the things in hospitality we have to remind ourselves often of is just because okay if you start to hear something enough that's when you kind of have to be like okay now they're asking for this and they're going to pay for it they're going to come back again and again but yeah that's something that I do think sometimes will hold restaurants back is they're just like oh that guest didn't get it oh they're not getting it oh they're not where Really just minor changes would be really big impact, like be really impactful for the for the restaurant.
Brian Sheehan:So you recently designed a masterclass in marketing for restaurateurs, right?
Sri Devel:Yep, I did.
Brian Sheehan:That's really exciting. And I guess I want to talk about what what made you think to do that? How did that come about?
Sri Devel:Yeah, so that actually came about by request. And so that was, there were a lot of people nationwide that were asking. So I'm based in Southern California. And so, as I mentioned before, I don't take on clients unless I personally have my two hands in your brand. And so there was just people who were, okay, can you teach us what you do then? If, you know, if you can't take us on or we don't need a full in-house agency, you know, we have a photographer, videographer or something like that. But we do need your help. And so that's how it came about. It just, there were enough requests for it. So I said, okay, absolutely. I can teach you my ways. And then one of the things that was really important to me is I came up in this industry. I started as a hostess, then I was a bartender, manager, catering director. I mean, you name a position, I've worked it. And so that is something that's very popular within this industry is you just work your way up the ladder. And so we were so many hats, but it was one of those things where if a bartender or a server wanted to take on that role for a restaurateur, it's not additional fees for the restaurateur to have this person handle their marketing because they're already in house. So it was an upskill. So although you do have to purchase the course, it was one of those things that you have amazing people within your restaurant. It takes a really unique person to just be able to go up to a table and say, hey, how are you? Befriend them within 45 minutes of their dining experience. This course specifically speaks towards those hostesses and maybe an expo or even a chef himself who's like, okay, I know food, but I don't know marketing. They can just upskill within this industry. There's college courses. There's all those types of stuff. I've always been a very untraditional learner, hence culinary school. I just thought there's so many people in our industry who are looking to take that next step who maybe traditional business school isn't for them, but this can get assistance to your restaurant immediately. It's, you know, it's about four hours of taped course, but then there's a full workbook that you do it. So I always said, you know, I wanted to create this course so someone could call in the bartender 30 minutes before their shift and they could do a chapter, you know, and then they could do their homework and then, okay, I'm going to come in tomorrow. And so it would be about, you know, 15 to 30 days. You're pretty well trained in the marketing field that you can really make an impactful change And then, of course, you could always just blow through it and do it in a rock solid 12 hours. But that's kind of how I envisioned it. I just I love it. It was absolutely something I was thrilled to do. Oh,
Brian Sheehan:you can tell. So without giving too much away, are there some kind of high level challenges? takeaways that you can share with our listeners from your masterclass?
Sri Devel:Plan. That is something we don't do in the restaurant industry. So it tends to be so ad hoc-y and it tends to be so last minute because we just don't plan. But for the most part, our industry is somewhat cyclical. We know, okay, the holidays, we're going to get slammed with holiday parties. So lay everything out, plan it. And say, okay, this is what you do per month. Like just plug and play, make copies of this. And then the biggest thing is that I wanted the student to write their story. So I give you a workbook and you fill it out and you add papers to it. And then you take that book and you go, okay, this is my restaurant. This is, you know, and you can keep that forever and always go and refer back to it. Because one of the things with so many people within the restaurant, you'll find people who are like, oh, I have a social media girl, but it's a girl who just does a post for you right and then there's no strategy there's no nothing so you know that girl can still post for you but let's make a strategy behind it like if that post lives on instagram can it can you write that you know if somebody takes a video of the chef you know creating this amazing dish and so it's like oh my girl's gonna post that okay great can she post that can she also write the recipe on pinterest can she get some more video and post that on youtube so then that's all of that is just being found and doing everything and then it's not just social. You have to do community outreach. I mean, it's the multi-channel approach that really happens, but you have to plan. It's not going to work if it's constantly like, oh, I'm going to go here. I'm going to go here. It's like, plan it out. Do 90%, have it controlled, controlled messaging, 90%. And then that 10%, feel free to get wild.
Brian Sheehan:So someone completes the masterclass and they want to engage with you, the culinary CMO, on a project or a partnership. Can you walk us through what that looks like?
Sri Devel:Absolutely. So that is so funny that you said that because there was a restaurateur actually close to us who purchased it for his service staff. And so he purchased four courses to have his management team be able to accurately market him. And he's a seasoned restaurateur, but he actually is going to be opening a new concept. And so he said, hey, my managers have gone through this. He's a restaurateur at heart. He does not want to do marketing. He's tired of being taken to the cleaners with bigger agencies who say they know marketing, but they don't know restaurants. So he asked if I can come in as a mentorship. And he said, you know, they've taken your course. They know everything. This is amazing. I'd love for you to just oversee us for like another two months, just so I make sure that they're implementing everything and being held accountable. And I said, absolutely. I said, that is a dream because training and mentorship is really what I did at Montage Hotels as part of their food and beverage development program. So I just said, what a So I got to do both. They did the course. So then they came to me knowing exactly what we do. And then so it was just kind of leading them into implementation and holding them accountable to do so. So it was really fun. So it's kind of a unique project that I've done.
Brian Sheehan:That's awesome. It's exactly how it's designed to work, right?
Sri Devel:Yeah, it's cool. And, you know, once they have the course, they can go on their way, right? They have the knowledge, they have the power, they can do it themselves. But this restaurateur was really like, hey, I can't keep them accountable right now. I got new store openings. Can you step in and do it? And I said, absolutely. What a dream. So it was fun.
Brian Sheehan:You know, marketing like restaurants is such a competitive space. What are some things or what sets the culinary CMO apart from maybe other companies that are working in the same space?
Sri Devel:I speak restaurants. My whole background is restaurants. I've never actually had another job outside of food and beverage. I, you know, it's just one of those things. I understand their work hours. Our joke is always that, you know, we have doctor hours, but we're not saving lives. So it's just one of those things. I get a call at midnight and I don't get pissed. I pick up, you know, I'm old bartender hours. So they call me Sunday morning because their brunch is full. I understand. So So it's just one of those things. I know the hours. I know the talk. I know the stress they're under. I know the challenges that are within the economy or food supply or those types of things. I understand it. So it's really... Um, that's what sets me apart. And that's where my biggest strength is, I think, is that I can just pick up and, you know, I've, ironically, I went in for a meeting to pitch marketing and then they were in the weeds. And so I just jumped into the hostess desk and he was like, that's never happened before. And I said, I know, but I can see people, I can greet them. I can say, hello, I'm here to help. So it was just one of those things where I, I, I am restaurants, so I just get it. That sets me apart than, I would say, 99% of other marketing agencies.
Brian Sheehan:Absolutely. You know, I'm remembering, too, you talked about saving lives. Somebody said a server saved my life in a restaurant once. I was choking.
Sri Devel:Are you serious? And
Brian Sheehan:they did the Heimlich. Right. Yeah, I was a kid. Big mistake. I left the table. I went to the men's room thinking I would somehow be able to, you know, dislodge the
Sri Devel:person. Yeah.
Brian Sheehan:mozzarella stick I had when I was a kid came back to the table. Somebody could tell I was choking, did the Heimlich and
Sri Devel:came
Brian Sheehan:right out. Yeah.
Sri Devel:I've seen the Heimlich, uh, a couple times. Yeah. I've been, uh, wow. That's incredible. It's interesting that you just said that now I'm thinking of all like the life threatening situations we've been in and I'm like, okay, yeah, that's.
Brian Sheehan:It happens more than probably most people realize, you know?
Sri Devel:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I've seen the Heimlich quite a few times. Yeah.
Brian Sheehan:Well, I wanted to ask you about some notable achievements, not just the lifesaving situations that you've been in, but what are a couple, some of the accomplishments from the culinary CMO that you want to talk about?
Sri Devel:Yeah. We did a full year kind of data refresh. I took a beta of one of the restaurants that we did. And it's an incredible restaurant that I just absolutely love the concept. It's a super fun concept. And I get to work with the owners all the time. And so they're just a great, great group. And so we took the whole year data. And so they... We were able to do they do Mother's Day packages. And so they partner with a hotel next to them for not only brand identity to identify with this hotel, but then also because of it's just a really cool package for the community. So it's $100 gift card to the restaurant and then it's a stay at the hotel and it's waterfront. And so prior to me coming on board, they sold about 70 per Mother's Day. And then as soon as I came aboard and with the proper marketing and all all of the different avenues that we did, we were able to get 600 packages purchased. So we saw a huge lift. And they, at one point when they looked at me, they pulled the numbers and they go, we have to make sure that it's okay to sell this many. Like we never have. And then, so that was a really cool success because it was kind of something outside the box for us. It wasn't trying to fill reservations. It wasn't, you know, Mother's Day reservations versus something else. It was, no, this is really like a full package. marketing package. And so that was really cool. And we've been able to replicate that success across the board all year for them. And it's really fun. And they are going to be expanding nationwide. And so one of the things that they wanted to do was really build their deck to pitch to investors and to centers when they're being reviewed to see if they can go into these locations. And so we were able to build their brand and do TV appearances for them and able to really show themselves as a very sturdy brand. So it was really cool to see the success. And they've even said, they go, oh my gosh, within a year, we can't even imagine. So they're looking to grow. They have placements already. So it's pretty exciting to see the success of that brand just after working with them for, we started to see the success very early on, but it was less than a year. And then they were ready to go. They were like, oh, okay, can we do this for Valentine's Day? I was like, let's do a package for Valentine's Day. When can we-
Brian Sheehan:And it works.
Sri Devel:It does. It works. And it's the multi-channel approach, but then also just being really able to understand the restaurant and understand what they want and what they need. Everyone needs reservations, but how can we think outside the box and kind of get the next step? We're going to get you reservations, but let's get you something else too. A
Brian Sheehan:couple of things. One, it makes me think we need to get you connected with all of our neighbors. Because a large percentage of our neighbor population are called quote unquote mom and pop single unit operators and marketing's maybe not a forte or if they don't have a background in that, that's probably something that, you know, they could use some additional training and resources support with. So it's really timely because that part of the grocery anchored shopping space, you just continue to see it grow. I mean, we're very strong with nationals, strong regionals, but I think even in that category too, there's probably a lot of room for growth.
Sri Devel:Yeah, love to. Yes, the more the merrier. We're all friends.
Brian Sheehan:Absolutely. So you're a female entrepreneur. I wanted to ask about your experience as a female entrepreneur and if you have any advice for... other female entrepreneurs?
Sri Devel:Yeah. My advice is go for it. I've just always, you know, I've been crazy enough to ask for every position I've ever been awarded. So it's one of those things where, you know, you know, catering director. I remember when I went for that position and they're like, you have no experience for this. And I said, yes, but I know your brand. There's nobody who can represent your brand better. Loyalty is huge to me in this industry. And so it's just one of those things where I often speak on being a female entrepreneur and it's always just go for it. Like don't, you know, I've been really lucky and almost all of the restaurant groups I've worked for are all men, but it's one of those things where I've just gone in and I've just asked. I don't set myself apart for just being a female, but I'm like, look, I work as hard as you. I do everything you do. Let's just be a team and move forward. Just go for it. Don't be shy to ask and don't be shy to learn. Just dive in there and go for these positions because... you know, it's always one of those things where I've always been crazy enough for asked for the position and I worked for crazy people and they let me have it. So I was like, perfect here I am today. Um, but yeah, just really lean in and just go for it.
Brian Sheehan:Great advice really for everyone. You know, if you think you have an inkling that you want to do something, you're passionate about that, right? Like go for it.
Sri Devel:Yeah, totally. And, and restaurants are really a 50 percent personality. Right. So and it's like and who the person is and what that person's heart is. And so it's it's necessary. It's not so much your degree in our industry. It's more of like, OK, where is your. You know, where's your background? You know, I often say I worked for Montage Hotels. It was kind of equivalent to going to Yale, you know, because it was the best of the best. And it's just our industry is just a little bit different than other people. So it's it's just one of those things where just go for it. I
Brian Sheehan:love that you said restaurants are 50 percent personality.
Sri Devel:Yeah, absolutely. I think about those great servers, you know, and think about those people who make your experience. And it's always going to be you're there for the food, but it's that it's how they made you feel. It's always about how they make you feel. And that restaurant that, you know, you celebrated your birthday, your anniversary at, or, you know, I had my baby shower there or, you know, yes, you always talk about the food, but it's really about how they made you feel. So it's that personality. So it's pretty fun.
Brian Sheehan:My last question for you is what are your goals and aspirations for the future of your business? If we talk again in five years, where will the culinary, where will you be? Where will the culinary CMO be?
Sri Devel:Well, hopefully the Culinary CMO will be worldwide. Let's not just stop nationwide. But I really, I want to help restaurants. So this is kind of the Achilles heel for us. And it's just one of those things where We will try to market when we can, or when we have a surplus of funds, we want to do it. And it is something that if you plan it out, it can work. So I really want to help. I would love to be able to take it worldwide. I don't know where that means. I've had a few, a few emails and comments. conference calls for a couple of concepts in Mexico, which I think would be absolutely amazing and so much fun. So then that kind of sparked something too. And it goes along those lines of like, have I ever represented a brand in Mexico? No, but I can, I'm going to. So it's one of those things where I would love to just keep going. Why not have an Italian concept in Italy? Like that would be amazing. So I actually have another international call today. Actually, now that I just said that out loud, that was crazy how that That all just worked. So you'll see me globally. I
Brian Sheehan:love it. Mexico, that's really exciting. We need to stay in touch on that.
Sri Devel:Yes, it was crazy. And it was crazy how it happens. And then they have, I think, six different units down there. And so they were tailoring towards the U.S. market. And so they just said, can we work together and get something to go? And I said, yes. Yeah.
Brian Sheehan:That's amazing.
Sri Devel:Yeah.
Brian Sheehan:Well, Sri, it was great speaking with you today. Thank you for taking the time to help educate our listeners about some of the trends that you're seeing about the culinary CMO. And congratulations on launching your masterclass. Thanks so much, Sri.
Sri Devel:So much fun. Thank you for having me. This was awesome.
Brian Sheehan:You can connect with Sri at the culinary CMO dot com. Whether you're an aspiring real estate mogul, a seasoned pro, or simply curious about the places where we shop, dine, and work, this podcast is your all-access pass to the world of commercial real estate. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. And if you're interested in being a part of Retail Intel, send a message to nationalaccounts at phillipsedison.com. If you want to hear more about new and expanding brands, keep tuning in to Retail Intel. And be sure to like, subscribe, follow, and repo Talk to you next time.