.png)
Retail Intel
Retail Intel
Ep 45: Tandoori Pizza
On this episode of Retail Intel, Brian Sheehan is with Amrit and Prabhjot Nijjar, the owners and operators of Tandoori Pizza! They give us the saucy details on their unique Indian-style pizza creations that are guaranteed to make your mouth water! Their slogan, “a little heat, a lot of heart”, truly describes their mission when it comes to their food.
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we dive deep into the dynamic world of commercial real estate. I'm your host, brian Sheehan, and I'm thrilled to be your guide on this journey through the bustling streets of retail, the aisles of shopping centers and the world of property investment. With me today I have Amrit and Prabhjit. Amrit owns a few locations and Prabhjit is the marketing executive for Tandoori Pizza, and their slogan a little heat, a lot of heart truly describes their mission when it comes to pizza. They've been taking their pride, love and inspiration of the fusion of Indian cuisine and pizza for the last several years through expansion of this exciting concept. How are you Good? Good Thanks for having us, brian.
Speaker 2:Appreciate being here. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for joining me. Yeah, so I'd love to start with your background. What got you interested in pizza? What were you both doing prior to launching or being involved in the launch of Tandoori Pizza?
Speaker 3:So probably I'll let you go ahead, ladies first.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. Thank you. Actually, I'm just going to go ahead and start off with TJ's Journey, who is actually the main owner for Tandoori Pizza, and before he actually was a part of the business, he went to UC Davis. He was an Aggie and he studied in business there. It's one of those things like I related to him because I graduated from UC Davis as well, so it was really cool seeing somebody with that same background. And, yeah, so he wanted to do something different. He didn't want to follow the traditional path of, you know, just going to school, finding a job in the corporate world and going through that cookie cutter path, but he wanted to do something that was unique and, being in a primarily area of like a lot of Indians and working with a lot of family, he wanted to go ahead and start something that allowed him to go out and bring his passion of cooking to the world. So that's what brought us here to Tenderi Pizza.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, I mean Tenderi Pizza. We first opened our doors in 2015 in our Dublin California location, which was owned and operated by Dajinder Singh himself, and this started out. You know, like Prabh mentioned, this was just for family events and it was just something that my cousin was bringing over and it just intrigued us and, you know, having those bland pizzas and just the traditional red sauce and the creamy garlic sauce, it gets boring after a while. So it was really connecting back to our roots, also with the spices and giving it that flavor, really having us, you know, look forward to those family parties and whatnot, being excited that hey, brother, tj is going to bring some pizza today and whatnot. So it was something that wasn't around back then in 2015. It wasn't something that was common as well. So it was definitely something that was a great opportunity for us to go ahead and grow on as well, so incredible Been to so many family gatherings, events, neighborhood parties.
Speaker 1:I've never had anyone bring anything like this to the gathering.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely unique.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk about what makes it unique. So some of the favorite flavors, I guess that you have.
Speaker 2:Where do you want to go?
Speaker 3:So my personal favorite would definitely have to be the tandoori chicken. It's our house special pizza, you know, with the creamy garlic sauce base. So we stick with that creamy garlic traditional creamy garlic on that base, with mozzarella cheese, with bell peppers, onions, tomatoes, that we dice up with grilled chicken high quality grilled chicken that we're using and that we're marinating with the tandoori spices and masalas to give it a little more flavor. Well, I wouldn't say a little more, a lot more flavor and just giving it something different than a lot of taste buds are used to as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for me it definitely has to be the chili paneer, because I'm a vegetarian, so it's one of the house favorites as well. Whoever comes by and I make that recommendation they definitely enjoy it. So that's great, and you definitely can't go wrong pairing it with some desi sticks.
Speaker 1:It sounds amazing and I appreciate you both sharing that. Stacey Sticks it sounds amazing and I appreciate you both sharing that. What is it about Indian cuisine that makes pizza a good category for experiencing these flavors?
Speaker 3:I would say everything I mean. Let's just start off with America itself. America was founded by Christopher Columbus, who came in search of India to do a spice trade. So it's sometimes I joke around with my buddies and I'm like, hey, I have the spice that Christopher Columbus came looking for. So it's like, hey, we're bringing that spice and we're combining it onto pizza. A lot of people around the world are used to pizza, but they're not used to pizza on that type of level and spice and combinations as well used to pizza on that type of level and spice and combinations as well.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I feel like pizza is a universal food and giving it that flavor and that mix with different types of cuisines or ethnicities and whatnot, it really gives it a lot more flavor and a diverseness as well.
Speaker 1:It's something you know often. Think about that journey to find flavors and think about your experience in hospitality and the restaurant business, how people are journeying to find you in this exciting new fusion cuisine. What is it about the hospitality and restaurant business that has you guys excited?
Speaker 3:I would definitely say it's every day. Every day is a new day and it's great to meet new people on a daily basis. You know some coming in to pick up a pizza for their birthday parties. Just recently, you know, valentine's went by, so some people coming in to grab a heart shaped pizza for their loved one, you know, and we get to work with amazing vendors as well, so it's a great opportunity for us to go ahead and really be in the real world and reality and interact with people. I mean, of course, it's not fun for anybody to just sit around at home and have that, so it's a great opportunity for us to have something new and different every single day. And I'll let Prabh go ahead and let us finish off with her part, because she does marketing, so she is managing most of the customer service issues or anything like that, so she can go ahead and tell you a lot more about it as well.
Speaker 2:Appreciate it. Thank you, Amrit. Yeah, for me it would have to be the same thing as well. I've been working from home for the past three, four years and it's it gets really exhausting to just be sitting in one place and not really interacting with people just behind like a screen. So it's been very cool to be able to meet new people and meet new vendors and, being the marketing exec and TJ bringing me along to go ahead and help with the brand and its awareness and getting new people on board, it's been absolutely great just being able to interact with people again and then building those connections. So I've had a great time being able to connect with different individuals in the East Coast, even here in California, and just meeting the team and working with the team. So it's a great pleasure.
Speaker 1:Did I hear correctly that you guys are partnering or working with the Sacramento Kings?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're definitely very excited about that opportunity with the Sacramento Kings. Yeah, we're definitely very excited about that opportunity. We just went ahead and, I guess, built out a collab for one of the events that are coming up, and they're doing a pop up for a holy event that's happening in March. So we're very excited to go out and partner with them and introduce our flavors to the Sacramento area before we end up branching out and having a brick and mortar location out there as well. So we're very excited.
Speaker 1:That's great Congratulations. So what?
Speaker 3:experience did you have with commercial real estate prior to Tandoori Pizza? So me personally, you know I've been with Tandoori Pizza ever since I was 15 years old, so I've really had no other type of experience other than that, you know, just being around my cousin and being around that environment, being around the business and just learning hands on every day to day. And then now I have a couple of locations under my belt with the real estate side of it, the market side of it, as well as learning, you know, the food side of it as well. So definitely there's a mixture of those.
Speaker 1:I wanted to jump back a second where we were talking about the different flavors and, for someone that hasn't been there, had the chance to experience Tandoori pizza. Yet you talk a little more about some of the flavors and spices that you use. What am I going to notice you know flavor wise when I have that first experience.
Speaker 3:Definitely the first bite. A lot of people they're hesitant to take that first bite because they think that it's going to be that sharp type of spice, let's say like a habanero or a serrano pepper or a jalapeno or something like that. But it's really not that. It's a lot more just having flavor from the different types of spices that we ground up and mix together to make the marination for the item that we're making. It's just the flavor from those kind of things. It's truly unexplainable. But it's definitely not spicy, but flavorful would be the right word.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Probs or anything you wanted to add there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean adding on to that. I just think that it's pretty great just being able to like bring that, bring in indian spices, that combination that amrit had touched on earlier. I mean the masala pesto being one of them. It's just very common indian basic spices that we use and you mix that in with the pesto and add just like a bit of a kick which brings in one of those unique flavors onto the pizzas. Um, another one would be the malai sauce, which isn't very spicy or doesn't pack like a lot of a punch, but you can just have those very granular, just different tastes that you don't really notice on day to day, but it's there. So it's very cool just being able to like incorporate those in the most easiest one and the most prevalent one, it has to be the Desi sticks, which is combination of ginger, garlic, chilies, pineapple, and you see all those ingredients on there and you can just know what packs that kick. So it's pretty awesome just being able to like tie those flavors in together.
Speaker 1:It sounds amazing Ginger garlic, chilies and pineapple.
Speaker 2:It definitely is a good one.
Speaker 1:And what makes it a desi stick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just those ingredients itself that bring it in. I mean, you normally don't think of ginger on pizza, you don't think of just putting on like straight chilies and you put on jalapenos but chilies on pizza. So those are very Indian ingredients that we use in our day-to-day cooking and so adding them onto the breadsticks make them, you know, into our desi sticks. So I mean, in the flavors itself, it's just a juxtaposition of spices. So, as Amrit had mentioned earlier, for the tandoori chicken, you have Indian spiced chicken on a creamy garlic sauce. So you have like the best of both worlds, which kind of unites, you know, anyone and everyone on those flavors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then definitely a lot of times when we do have new customers and they want a non vegetarian type of pizza, I do recommend the tandoori chicken to them right off the bat, because tandoori chicken is one of our least, or I would say, a mid type of spice pizza, because it just has spice in the chicken itself, not in the sauce. We do have other sauces aside from the creamy garlic or the traditional red. We do have our curry sauce, our malai sauce, our makhani sauce. So we do have like a mild, light and a spicy type of sauce. So the tandoori chicken, the creamy garlic sauce, really gives it that toned down spice but that flavor as well, and then if somebody would like, they can keep the chicken piece on there or pick it off if it's too spicy for them. So it is accommodating to the customer as well.
Speaker 2:But we haven't heard any complaints so far.
Speaker 1:It just all sounds so amazing. I wanted to shift gears here for a minute and talk about your real estate needs. A lot of our listeners are going to be brokers, landlords, property owners and ask you more about what you need from a space and a shopping center. So I guess first would be let's talk about the square footage, size range, footprint of typical Tantori pizza.
Speaker 3:So our minimum requirement is definitely 2000 square footage for the location, and we do hope to find that it is an option where it is a closed down restaurant or something where we wouldn't have to do a complete cut out of the location. Let's say, for example, it is like a 30 year or 40 year old restaurant. So that doesn't help us either in any way, because you know we have to change plumbing or we have to change electrical or you know there's a lot more things that play into it. So definitely a 2000 square foot would be the minimum, and then any new location works for us as well, Any building out plazas and as well as any closed down restaurants as well.
Speaker 1:Second gen restaurants can be a good fit. Correct what's the maximum square footage that you've done so far?
Speaker 3:We have done around 45, I believe for 4,000 in San Ramon and Fremont. Those are pretty big locations. I know Turlock is 3,600 square feet. It's just after Corona. The bigger dine-in has just decreased a bit. But I've noticed in the last couple weeks and months I would say that dine-in has been picking back up to what it used to be before Corona. So I definitely hope for, and I do have locations with quite a bit capacity for the dine-in and I do hope for them to flourish again. Okay, so anywhere up to 45 would be good, 2,000 to 45.
Speaker 1:And how many current number of open locations are there? I believe 11. And mostly in California.
Speaker 3:Yes, we have, I believe, nine in California and two in the East Coast. One just opened up in Queens, new York, and one in Philly.
Speaker 1:That's exciting. Is it all corporate? Is it franchise? Is it a mix?
Speaker 2:No, none of them are franchises. So we're currently working on that and hopefully it all passes down smoothly. But yeah, most of these are all partnerships and we just work with different vendors and see how things go, and we're actually opening up new location in Fresno as well, so we're very excited for that too.
Speaker 1:How many do you anticipate opening this year?
Speaker 2:New locations so we have the two that opened up earlier and then the one that we're opening up in Clovis. We have plans to open up a few in Sacramento and in Texas as well. So hopefully by the end of the year maybe about five to six new locations. So we're anticipating. You know, we're hoping to go ahead and get that going and then we'll see how it goes from there.
Speaker 1:That's exciting, and how many do you think for next year, 2025?
Speaker 2:Same goal. We want to be able to keep on that trajectory of opening at least five to ten new locations, and then we're also planning on franchising in other states as well. So we'll see how it goes. Right now we're in conversations with a lot of different folks that have showed interest in starting up locations, especially in new york and in texas, and a lot of other like central states that have been developing quite a bit. So being a part of that market would be a great opportunity for us and also to like introduce ourselves to like many different people out there.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like slow and steady growth, correct? Slow and steady wins the race, and previously the focus was primarily in California, but now you're starting to look more nationally. Yeah, Correct.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's a flavor we can't, you know, hold on to for too long. We need to get it out there and then share it with the world. I mean, that's the only thing that we're trying to do, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to dominate the world. Right now, we're just going to dominate the nation.
Speaker 1:demographics in the communities, where you're already open, having success, where you're looking in the future.
Speaker 3:Are there certain demographic characteristics, socioeconomic profile that you need, you think, in order for you know tandoori pizza to do well, I definitely think being an Indian pizza, a lot of people would assume that we need to open up in an area where there is a majority demographic of Indian people, but that's usually not the case at all. I mean, what I usually tell my partners and everybody around me, my associates is that we live in America.
Speaker 3:Right, we're living in a very diverse country where there's people from all different backgrounds, all different, you know, nations, ethnicities. So it's very wrong for us, as a brand, to target one certain individual or type of individuals to go ahead and sell our product to, and that's definitely not the case. We're open to anybody and everybody, all diversities. I mean we have our Tracy location, for example, where we do get a majority of Indians but we do get a handful. I would say where we do get 50% Indian, we do have 25 to 30% diverse crowd of other ethnicities and whatnot. And then I would say the rest would be like Punjabis and whatnot.
Speaker 3:So there is a huge majority but where, as the Turlock, there isn't a big population of Indian majority. So over there there's a mixed demographics of, you know, hispanic backgrounds or Caucasian backgrounds and whatnot. So they are also appreciated as our customers and loved, and we love them and you know they're bringing their business over to us enjoying our food, and that's what we want. We want to go ahead and share our food with everyone and not just one individual type of people or a group of people. So anywhere, you know, would be ideal for us.
Speaker 1:Sure, what are some of the uses that you like to see around you? I guess I'm thinking are you looking for specialty fitness or med tail concepts? Do you like grocery anchored shopping centers? What do you guys want to see in the real estate that you're evaluating?
Speaker 3:I mean a fitness definitely wouldn't work around pizza, but a grocery outlet is definitely something that we always look for, grocery being somewhere that brings a lot of residential customers as well, and people spend up to 25, 30 minutes in a grocery outlet and that's how much it can take to go ahead and get an order ready for them 20 to 25 minutes. They can give us a call, go ahead and do their shopping, come out, pick up their pizza, go home and do their dinner stuff or whatever it may be. So that's usually the best for us as grocery outlets.
Speaker 2:I also wanted to add on that quickly, Also going back to the demographics and locations and based on where we like to cater to. Just a recent experience, we opened up locations in San Jose over here, and then the one in Philadelphia, and one thing that I had noticed in terms of it was it's a commercial property with condos and apartments up top. So those have been really amazing as well, because it allows residentials to come in. I mean, one of the things I had experienced with these locations people coming in, like we've been so excited about, like you know, you guys coming to the location and for you to open up, like we were really excited to try out the food. So it's great being able to be a part of that community, being a part of the residents lives.
Speaker 2:And then other commercial units nearby, like people from different clinics or, for example, Philly location. There are clinics nearby, a lot of veterinary clinics, a lot of salons, a lot of other, like you know, small biz restaurants. So it's very cool interacting with them and seeing you know how much they wanted the Andorra pizza to be a part of their community and we're looking forward to it. So when we did our openings for both of these particularly, we noticed what the diverse crowd was like. It was just a mixture of people, it was a melting pot. So it was very cool being able to see everyone come together, like whether they're families, whether they're friends, whether they're just there with their co-workers. It was a very great experience being able to, like, unite everyone and bring them together that's exciting, you know.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you can do well in a variety of settings and markets, mix of uses around you everybody needs to eat absolutely how are? I would talk a little more about your real estate strategy and those markets. You you guys were Bay Area focused. Got some East Coast development going on Texas. It sounds like what's driving where you're looking for real estate.
Speaker 3:Go ahead Probe. I'll let you take that question first, Okay.
Speaker 2:So, in terms of what drives us to find the real estate that we need, I would have to say location really matters.
Speaker 1:Well, the markets, I guess I would say. First with the markets. How are you guys picking the markets that you're expanding into? What's driving that expansion?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for us, we want to make sure that we're not in an area that's secluded, just anywhere. We want to be in in the middle of everything that's happening, like downtown areas, places where we know are popular cities that have a lot of residents, have like a lot of businesses surrounding it. That's basically a primary location for us. We want to be able to be in the middle of, like, what's happening. So that's really important for us to like enter into any market, because if we're having people try out something new, we want to be able to like be somewhere where, like, everyone has that equal opportunity and we have that crowd that is, you know, part of wanting to experience the next new thing. So, yeah, I think that's pretty much a big, big market for us, or like the market that we intend to enter.
Speaker 1:Are you thinking it's primarily, you know, near term expansion is going to happen in those urban areas? Are you looking in suburban markets, at grocery anchored shopping centers, power centers, malls, those kinds of locations?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Tracy is based in that, in that type of location. So is Turlock and our Brentwood, but Amrit can definitely talk more on locations that he's managing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean definitely With Tracy being accessible to the whole city. I mean you come in from the east, west, south or the north. You can go ahead and reach that location in about the same amount of time from any direction. So that's definitely one thing that we look for is accessibility. So let's say, there's newer traditions to make these plazas next to the freeways. Even over here in the Central Valley on 99, they have built plazas along that side. So now those newer plazas and buildings, they are good, they're nice and whatnot, but they don't entirely work out for us because those customers that are going to be on the freeway, they're going to be that one-time customer and we want customers that are retaining customers. So we want to go ahead and have them keep coming back.
Speaker 3:And you know, let's say, we want to be somewhere where we're also tapping into the residential area as well. You know, tapping into the schools and being involved with the local community. Something what I have done is local sporting teams. You know there's volleyball, cricket, what goes on out here, or there's high school Olympian teams and whatnot. So I would love to you know, at time to time I sponsor those to go ahead and get involved. So I want to be in a distance to where, whoever those residential people are, you know going to places are able to come to me and same thing is accessible for them to go ahead and come to me. I don't want them to be like, hey, that shop is on the other side of town. We don't ever want that question. It's I want to go to Tandoori Pizza, it's right there, I can go ahead and go there.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. That makes sense. Your average unit volume. That's AUV, something we talk a lot about in our industry. What's the typical Tandoori pizza doing sales-wise?
Speaker 3:They have definitely been higher in the numbers in the last couple of years. It's definitely the brand recognition that we have been receiving for the last couple of years. As we told you earlier, we started off in 2015. So, you know, not having a name out there, not having that brand recognition and not really building that type of level for yourself, really doesn't get you all that much in sales. But now, almost 10 years, nine years under the belt, you know it has definitely driven up and I would average it around 140 to 150 a month.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're 1.7, maybe just under 2 million a year. Correct, average for all locations. Correct, 1.5 to 1.7. Is there anything unique to your build out? So a lot of second generation spaces have, you know, hoods, maybe a walk-in cooler freezer, correct? We?
Speaker 3:do prefer that. There is preferably a cooler already installed. So that does, you know, bring down the workload for us. And a hood. It's not usually there and sometimes what happens is it's the smaller hoods and we need the bigger hoods. For example, and Tracy, I believe it's 12 feet for the hood, so there's size-wise it does vary. So usually the hood and the cooler and the drainage system and an ADA-compliant bathroom and then everything else we can bring in.
Speaker 1:How about, from a power or water perspective, anything? Are you guys generally having to upsize the panel?
Speaker 3:I've only had issues with older buildings in the past where you know, I believe I'm not sure what kind of piping they used way back in the day in the 80s or something like that, but it rots out and it doesn't remain a pipe anymore. So I've had experience with that to where I had to completely take out the complete plumbing out of the whole store and renew the plumbing, and the landlord did not help in anything and it was all out of my pocket. So it does get a little hefty if it is an older building. But you know, with newer buildings and stuff like that there's usually not those type of issues with electrical or plumbing. You know. Other than that, you know if it's like a restaurant and grease, grease is your worst friend, uh I should have asked earlier do you need a drive-through?
Speaker 3:no, no, maybe, maybe, maybe, if probe comes up with an idea we'll get there eventually, what's the mix of carry out versus dine in?
Speaker 1:Maybe on a percentage you got half and half, or carrying out dining or most people dining in.
Speaker 3:I mean, like I was telling you earlier, before Corona there was a lot more dine in than there is now. But in the last couple weeks and months I would say a month and month or two January and the last couple weeks of February as well Dinein has definitely been picking up for us and, tracy, we are renovating. You know it's been five years, so we're renovating the inside to give it a new look. So we are a little low on the chairs, but we did buy about 15 extra chairs and at times those are still less. So you know the dine-ins are definitely filling back up. So I'm definitely excited about that. But after Corona DoorDash, uber, eats, grubhub apps like those they had a huge boom. So you know there's a lot of deliveries and pickups that are coming through those and they're generating us a lot of sales as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not sure why I'm speculating this way, this way, but I'm thinking the sort of category of restaurant that you operate in maybe lends itself to a higher percentage of dine-in customers than your typical, you know, pizza place. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:I mean it's an opportunity. You know we, even even our customers know, and we tell our customers as well, that it tastes best right fresh out of the oven. You know when it's out and we cut it up, bring it to your table. It is going to taste the best when it sits in a box. You know with that heat and the steam, you know making the box soft and the pizza quality goes down sitting in the warmer and you take 15 minutes, 20 minutes, to come pick it up, it's going to slowly decrease the quality. So you know, even to our customers who are like hey, you know, give us a call, Let me know you're going to be here 15 minutes. I'll have it ready the moment you sit down. It'll be there in two minutes and you'll have a hot and ready pizza.
Speaker 3:You know that's what I try to do with all my customers is hey, I want to give you the best quality. I don't want you to wait. If you're going to take 30 minutes, I'll go ahead and make it in 15. You know I'll wait 15 minutes, but I want to give you the best quality man?
Speaker 1:do you need a liquor license? Do you serve alcohol correct?
Speaker 3:we do, uh, beer and wine. We do have san ramon. I believe san ramon is um. They are supposed to be doing a full liquor bar, but I believe that is still in the works. They only have their beer and wine license at the moment.
Speaker 1:Well, last question what do you need to see from your landlord partners for Tandoori Pizza to be successful?
Speaker 3:I would definitely just say, just to work with us. I'll just tell you so. A couple of weeks ago I had the Tracy landlord. He came over and I met him for the first time in five years. I've never met the guy, I've never seen him in my life. I've only talked to him on the phone and email. That's about it. And you know, he pointed out a few things and he was like, hey, well, the back window is broken and I'm going to have to put it on you. And I'm just looking at the window like, hey, I didn't even break it. Or you know, I don't even know what happened. But you know what I responded to him was hey, I want to be here for a long term. I don't want to be here for a year, two years, I want to be here for the next 20 years, 30 years if possible, right?
Speaker 3:So I know if you can do long term business with me and I can do long term business with you, we can both be very happy and we just got to take care of each other. So that's what I ask from the landlord.
Speaker 2:I agree with that.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm rent probbed. It was great speaking with you today. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for joining me on Retail Intel.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys, thank you. Be on the lookout for new Tandoori Pizza locations opening near you and check out their website, tandooripizzacom. Give them a follow at Tandoori Pizza California. Whether you're an aspiring real estate mogul, a seasoned pro or simply curious about the places where we shop, dine, play and work, this podcast is your all-access pass to the world of commercial real estate. As always, connect with me on LinkedIn and if you're interested in being a part of the Retail Intel Podcast, send a message to nationalaccounts at phillipsedisoncom. If you want to hear more about new and expanding brands like Tandoori Pizza, keep tuning in to Retail Intel and please subscribe, follow, like and repost. Talk to you next time.