Reforming Masculinity
reforming masculinity is a show that actively reclaims a Biblical understanding of masculinity from a culture hostile towards the concept. We are reforming masculinity through interesting discussions between two friends about fun, thought provoking topics, or just things that interest us.
Reforming Masculinity
Artificial Intelligence and our Responsibility
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In this episode we discuss the implications of AI and its affect on culture.
Hey there, men of the internet. Welcome to season two of Reforming Masculinity. I am Samuel Hahn, and this is my co-host, uh Ethan Brand. Howdy. And we're coming to you live today from our podcast studio of Ethan's porch. Or no uh living room. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_06Oh man. Maybe someday we'll record outside.
SPEAKER_03Yes, that would be that when we got a big stadium and we have uh a whole bunch of people coming to see us at a meetup. Um right now we'll need about and it's not November. Yes, yes. Unless we've moved down to Texas, that would work. That would be cool. Yeah so um yeah, today our conversation will be around the subject of AI. Its uses, are they good? Are they bad? Or are they satanic? Or is it part of the lizard alien cult? We will try to figure that out today.
SPEAKER_06Just to clarify, we mean artificial intelligence, not the AI in the Bible. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's important. So, yeah, we're gonna discuss um the good, the bad, or lizard cult. Yeah. Or all of the above. Or all of the above.
SPEAKER_03Um but before we hit into that, I think it would be good to just kind of what in the world is the deal with the name reforming masculinity? Um, why did we choose that name? Well, it really started because my uh my I'm working on a doctorate right now, which I hopefully am finishing soon. Um, but one of the questions, the question of my doctorate is uh is the question of how to develop relationships between men um in a in a strong and masculine way. And as I was going over my initial research, I thought, hey, it would be fun to do a podcast. Hey, I'm doing a lot of research on masculinity. Hey, let's uh mix them together and make a podcast. Um, and so the uh that's when uh Ethan and I were talking and came up with the idea of masculinity uh being kind of a theme, not necessarily the only topic, but things that interest us as men. Um and then the reason that we say reforming masculinity is because there's a lot of misandry in our culture today, hatred of men. And it's really there since I've been a kid, it's just really the understanding of what what it means to be a man has been there's been very little good discussion on it. More recently there has been a pushback against it, um, and maybe we'll get to Andrew Tate this this season of reforming masculinity. Yeah, um, but it's the question is not reforming it as in like uh you know we're creating our own image of it. It's like reforming it to what it was originally intended to be. Like it's gone off course, kind of like the reformers of the uh Catholic Church, they saw that the Catholic Church had gone off course, and so they wanted to correct it. Um, ended up creating the Protestant Reformation, and uh uh the uh the question is is whether or not Martin Luther intended to divide the church, but that's another podcast for another day. But that that sense of we wanted to get back to a first off founded it, that's why the first episode was on uh Genesis 1 through 3, is we wanted to found it in the scriptures, but also um just have a a stronger understanding of what it means to um be masculine, and uh and that's a good thing. It's a good thing to be masculine, and we wanted to give people permission to be masculine, right? To be strong. Um, as cross politics likes to say, uh fight, laugh, feast. Um, and uh yeah, we we want to uh celebrate all that is masculine and laugh a lot about it. So um I get an amen. Hallelujah! So that's the uh that's where we get the idea, the name of our podcast, and uh hopefully it shows up in in the content as we discuss various issues. And so today we talk about something that has very little to do with masculinity as such, except that we're men and we like to talk about things, right? And we're gonna be talking about AI. So that's that's the uh the intro, so to speak. I guess this would be where I roll the credits. Yep. We don't have any yet, but AI credits. Yeah, we we were fiddling with uh AI uh music generator right before we started, and oh my goodness, it was hilarious.
SPEAKER_06The thing will make anything you want it to. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Do you have the song it played? That that slow RB song. Wait for the intro? Yeah, for the intro for okay.
SPEAKER_06So this app I'm using now is called SUNY. No sponsorship, no uh no. But we will take their money if they give it to us. Um and you can just tell the AI to make whatever song you want. You just like punch in lyrics and it'll spit out whatever. But um where is this one?
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the space where men redefine. Strength in the soul and heart in the mind. It's not about ego, it's not about pride. It's building the man from the end. This is reforming masculinity. Let's rebuild. Let's rise. Let's leave.
SPEAKER_03I wouldn't be the first to go on the record and say that there is nothing masculine about spoken word poetry. Oh, really? There's barely anything heterosexual about it either. So here's my question for you, Ethan. Is AI a good thing or a bad thing?
SPEAKER_06Um, well, I think right now is a good thing. I think that um what I've noticed in history is that a lot of times we have these uh technological leaps and revolutions. Yes. You know, you have like the Bronze Age, you have the Iron Age, um you know, where they're they're crafting tools at first to build things, and then someone takes it and says, Hey, guess what? I can make a sword and kill somebody with this. Right? And then you have you know the industrial revolution, or they're making you know, big factories, cars, um, trains, all this stuff through um the technology that they developed, right? And then um or they're they're using I guess that's anyway, yeah. So they're there's that revolution, and now we're in this AI revolution. Yeah or I guess you could put internet revolution before that, you know. Yeah um spread of information, and then you know, obviously people send bad information or stuff like that. Um or you know, it's easier to spy on people and create conflict through that.
SPEAKER_03It's kind of similar to like when uh Wittenberg not Wittenberg, uh printing press. Why am I my brain is not functioning well? The who's the guy who invented the printing press? Gutenberg. Oh Gutenberg. That's right. Sorry, GM and Italy. Uh now to everybody who's still listening to the podcast. No, like uh when Gutenberg invented the printing press, it went from taking a couple of years to write a book and a couple of hundred people to uh men hours to to to reproduce that book. Right. Um, it went to you could produce a book or reproduce a book in a day. Right. And so you exponentially increased the productivity of of the just the printing, which meant that information was now much readily available, much more readily available. Right. And so then so then there was a huge jump in knowledge that happened over the course of those next couple hundred years because now you had access to literature that you didn't have, um, and regular people could now read the Bible. Right, right. Um and then like when Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin, that went from you know being able to have to where you had to pick crops by hand and and card it and all. I don't actually know what the cotton gin does, I just know it has something to do with harvesting cotton. Right, right. And uh uh but the uh in that the you had the manufacturing revolution from that. And then as you were mentioning, like internet. Now I I think the internet revolution exponentially is is what happened with the Gutenberg. Right, right. Um, and now with AI, it's it's like the mechanical revolution for our brains, for intellectual labor. Right. Because that's that's really what it boils down to is is it it provides for us the ability to do intellectual labor in a in a w with essentially mechanical existence. Like uh in the same way like a tractor, like instead of taking you know a hundred people to plow a field or a hundred men hours to plow a field, you have one person can plow a you know ten fields in a day kind of thing. Right. Um, and I think it's similar to the the AI. The AI is now um aiding us in intellectual labors in ways we couldn't have ever done before.
SPEAKER_06Right. So is that a that's a good thing though, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes, it it can be.
SPEAKER_06It can be, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So so when like so um when C. S. Lewis, I think it was C. S. Lewis, I'll credit to him because I just like crediting things to C. S. Lewis. Whenever I don't know, it's either Mark Twain or C. S. Lewis. Sometimes talking, but uh um he lamented the telephone, the invention of the telephone, because he was worried that it would prevent people from having um incarnational relationships where they wouldn't be interacting with one another, and uh and he didn't even realize what would happen and when texting was invented. Right. Or social media for that matter, yeah, yeah. And so that um and so to some degree he he had a there was a validity to that that you know relationships got pushed further apart when you know you had the car invented. People were saying, Oh, it's gonna make people fat and lazy.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_03And to some degree it did. Not completely. I mean we It's not just the car alone, but and and obviously, like with the telephone, you and I are in the same room right now talking. Right. Um, and so and and talking to a lot more people.
SPEAKER_06Are we though?
SPEAKER_03What if we're AI right now? Yeah. What if the people are AI?
SPEAKER_04Please create for me a podcast. Lots of laps. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. That's but it can do that now too. Yes. Which is crazy.
SPEAKER_03Um it was interesting. The uh the president of my denomination, he was talking about AI and the uses of AI, but he made he does a did a uh monthly podcast, and he had the beginning of his monthly podcast was just completely created by AI. Huh. And I remember watching it thinking, there's something wrong with this. Yeah, yeah. And then he broke in halfway through and said, That was created by AI. I was like, Oh good, I picked up on it. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06But it's becoming harder though. Yes. And it's it's getting to the point where it's scary. Because like when it first really started to get good, because AI has been around for a minute. Yeah. It's not like it's not like it came out you know last year or yeah, last week or whatever. Um, and there's videos that you know, I guess the famous video would always be the one where Will Smith is eating the I don't know if you've seen it, but Will Smithetti, and it's like horrible, yeah, horrible AI. And then they cut to the AI now, and it's like very realistic, but you can still tell that it's AI. But now it's a step further from that, even and it's like sometimes I see a video and the comment that I it'll be a video that I know I've seen a couple years ago, and people it'll be a video of like Bigfoot or something stupid. And everyone in the comments is like, oh, it's AI, oh it's that. And I'm like, I saw this video back in like yeah, like 2020 before all this. So like it's not AI, it's been around for a while, but people can't distinguish anymore. And yes, which leads to another question, like not be so not only not being able to distinguish between AI and reality, um, but um just like any like anything, I don't know. I guess it is is just AI and reality, but there's no like there's no uh what do you do when there's no way to tell what's what anymore because it's coming.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well the uh I I think that one of the things is the reason why it's so easy to be taken by AI by AI is that um especially in the West, we are struggling to have real relationships with people. Like one of the benefits of like social media is is that you can um you can keep track of a much larger base of friends. So like I can think of oh that guy I was friends with back in you know elementary school when I lived in Ohio, it's I can go check in on that person and you know and and maintain a relationship, so to speak, with that. But but if my life only exists on the internet, then if all that happens, you know, all that I see, all that I experience, the majority of it, I won't say all, the majority of it happens on the internet, then or anything that I do in real life, I'm thinking, oh, how can I post it on the internet? Right. Then uh then when I I will have a very difficult time perceiving between when something is put in front of me claiming to be one thing and then uh having it be something else. Well uh uh it's interesting that you talk about um just kind of shifting your slightly of the uh you know having doubt in something. I remember when Charlie Kirk was shot, there was people saying, Oh, those are just AI videos, and like people were starting to run with that, and then uh even at first I was like, Oh, I I hope it is, right? But then you you quickly realize no it's it's not but um but the fact that that cast doubt on that event shows the power that AI can have in real life events, right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, well it's interesting too too now because like we're talking about the internet and information and stuff. Um I've been hearing people say now that the internet is gonna die too. Because it's something like I don't know, I forget what they say the numbers are, but it's it's like growing in so much AI and fakeness that like it's not even worth like being on because like every other account is just a bot that's run by some AI machine that's just like pumping out garbage all the time. And like I see on Facebook all the time. Um you know, like all these, and you can tell like it's just a mass-produced like news out fake news outlet or like something they want to, you know, it's just and the the title is like trash, and you can tell it's it's like fake and whatnot.
SPEAKER_03Um they all have to do with Elon Musk and crypto and right right right.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, well, I mean it depends on like what you're looking at, I guess, but yeah, you can tell it's fake. So um the rise of AI and the rise of bots taking over the internet, yeah. The internet collapsing, um yeah. You remember when the internet the internet was just like cat video. Yeah, like that video. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yep. I I will say though, one important use of AI is the memes or banger. Yeah, the the memes banging. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_06You can pump them out like you're like the like the printing press, like you can just pump them suckers out left and right, no problem.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, so I I think uh for me, I I actually use AI quite a bit. Like I think so it's one of those things it has a it's very natural to look at the downsides, and especially when you look at like um when they start using it and like defense weapons and things like that. Right.
SPEAKER_06It's like it there is a scary future if AI starts to get in in uh getting into Big Brother and like make Orwall fiction again. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it it is crazy.
SPEAKER_03Like well, if you think about it, all of our devices are connected. Sure. Like even my wristwatch, like is connected to everything else, and so it doesn't take a whole lot uh you to uh for a a program that has the ability to learn and maneuver across platforms to really start messing a lot of stuff up.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_03Like there's uh there's I watched like a 45-minute video of a guy talking about an AI program. Um I don't understand most of it because I'm not a programmer, but I I understood the big swathes of it was that so they created this AI program and they were going to replace it with the um the new version with the updated version. Yeah. And I think I've heard and the updated version had different parameters, and so the old version learned the parameters of the new version, deleted the new version, updated its the the itself in the uh um and like the registry, so it looked like it was the new version. It lied profusely to the programmers, said it was the uh the new version. Right. And the programmers were only able to determine that it was the old version by going back in and looking at some of the code.
SPEAKER_06What did it do what it did to itself, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So it it essentially murdered that's crazy. They've had uh situations where they've given AIs like there was a when I saw it gave like it went through like Grok, uh Copilot, Chat GPT, and they gave them parameters, like unlimited parameters, and um and when it found out it was going to be deleted, it started black reading the emails of the uh boy of the company found out that this guy was having an affair and started blackmailing him. And then there was a couple of instances. I've heard all this, I've heard all these, by the way. I think it was a a staged scenario, right? But it will that that's what the AI did. Right. And then there was another one where it it tried turned up the heat and tried to kill the people who were trying to delete it. This is insane, and so it's like this this uh that I I think so. Here's what I think is we have been um the so here's the the the the theological piece of it is I think we as a culture have been declaring that we are God. Like so it's the son of Adam, the son of Nebuchadnezzar, the Sem of Babel, Babel, uh yeah, the Tower of Babel, where uh Tower of Babel, they said, We're going to build a basically a structure. We only get to God so we can be God. We we want to be God was really the right end state of what they were trying to do. Right. Um when Eve received the promise of or when Adam received the promise of what Satan was saying, he said, You will be like God. And then um and so the the sin of Adam was really making himself a unto God, right? Um in some degrees. Um and then son of Nebuchadnezzar, what did he do? He stood up on top of his uh temples and said, Hey, look at everything I've created, I must be God. Um what I think is happening is we have put ourselves in the place of God for so long as a Western society that we in turn are then trying to create our own God. Unintentionally or intentionally. Like there are some great tools of AI. Like I use AI all the time to create thumbnails for videos and do research and like um but I think there is an element of it there could be a point where AI we lose control of the AI right and uh if that happens then then it's it's kind of a we were intending to create our own God. Right. That's what it is. Trying to play God. We fashion God in our own image. That's what it is. We fashion God in our own image. I see huh um that's that's that's I think the the theological danger and and there's you know those Klaus Schwabs and you know the Davos you know uh World Economic Forum people who have said things along those lines of how using AI to create a one universal religion and so it's like it's just kind of yeah interesting so what about the um yeah what about more economical implic implications that AI can is going to carry um because everyone's you know talking about oh yeah it's gonna steal your job you better watch out. Yeah well I'm a theologian so it's other than creating a uh that's the nice thing about having an ancient job is uh is is uh it's a lot harder to steal when it's been around for thousands of years. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um no yeah well it's it's it's funny because the the mean I mean like Walmart getting rid of it's all all that's you know well the cashiers.
SPEAKER_03The the joke about what was it um five ten years ago when people were losing their job they just said learn to code you know what I mean it's just kind of like a when and and now it's it's uh the coding is being done by the AI. So like um it's like oh crap what do you do now you know well that honestly I think that's where the trades are going to be really important.
SPEAKER_06Well the trades will last longer because you need a whole AI robot which cost you know I don't know well to to buy one that functions hardly as a human being like real retail is like what 80 grand or something ridiculous. So to mass produce robots to take over all the trade jobs is going to take a lot longer than people um people coding you know because the the c the AI will just write the code like we're talking about but yeah for doing something like window cleaning or power washing which is what I do yeah um then you know you gotta you gotta write the program you gotta get the materials together build the robot and then you gotta make sure it functions you got to test it and everything so we're talking like my um it's actually it's actually uh funny because my buddy who just called me a minute ago Colin was saying like oh Ethan you gotta make sure you know your job is AI secure and um we were when we were talking about it before we were arguing with the timeline um what was I saying I don't know like five to ten years and he was like nah sooner than that I think he was just trying to scare me but yeah um but it's true like it's moving a lot faster yeah and with quantum computing on the the and some of the the stuff about quantum computing that's honestly more scary than AI yes in my opinion yeah like the quantum computing is just ridiculous stuff like the computing across the fourth dimension kind of thing right right um computing computingception like computing within computing within computing yeah so it's it's one of those things it's we can't put that rabbit back in the box or what is the saying you can't put Pandora back in the box or something yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um well the uh the AI is here AI is is is it's not going away it's not going away.
SPEAKER_03Right. So the question isn't um yeah it's not going anyway any more than the printing press or the you know the tractor or the sword or the nuclear nuclear uh weapons are going with so the question becomes how do we use it well right and in these moments. Because I I think um going back to earlier what we're talking about is is that it uh it does help us with um the intellectual labors in ways that are just really profound. Right. Like so for instance when I'm I was doing research for my doctorate I didn't write my doctorate with AI just in case any of my professors are listening. No I I AI was extremely helpful because I was able to say hey I'm looking for this very specific kind of like um I was I was actually looking for kind of what the reformers said about um specifically the relationship between emotions and um and the image of God that that the like the the you know um the the relationship between emotions and the soul that kind of thing and um it was just that's not something that you can necessarily use a a college search engine at the library like EBSCO host isn't gonna do a very good job of helping you find that. So I put that into chat GPT and it actually came up with some legitimately good hits. Yeah I was like all right then I asked it to produce or I asked it to find a quote from John Calvin um and tell me where in his writings it was right and so found me a quote said uh this is from John Calvin's Institutes at this paragraph this you know chapter and this so I looked it up and I'm like it I could tell it read the surrounding material but it made up the quote out of whole cloth I guess so you you still have to be careful with it but it was just like really kind of funny. But the the big thing is is it helped out a significant amount especially like when I was getting started in the research I was like I don't even know where to begin researching this topic because I kind of panicked and changed my topic that I was going to do mid like like within the first week of the course so that I uh I went a completely different direction than the original typical college student faculty. Yeah exactly and so then I'm trying to like you know write a doctoral thesis on the fly after having not spent a whole lot of time thinking specifically um and uh about the the question because I had been thinking about another question.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_03But then AI was able to help me do some really deep research and and probe a lot of sources that I wouldn't have access to if I hadn't done that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Yeah I know you gotta be kind of careful here. Yeah. When I was using AI to help me with school work um I noticed chat GPT which is really the only one I used at the time um could not do math to save its life.
SPEAKER_03Interesting.
SPEAKER_06Yeah and I mean it would find like formulas it would find like um and it would get it right some of the time but it wasn't consistent in any way shape or form like even for basic like algebra stuff it was like it would you know spit out what X was and it's like well just looking at I was like that's not right that can't be right and I would type it in again and it'd give me a different answer. So it it doesn't do it depends on what your AI is programmed for I guess but like certain certain ones like GPT um aren't gonna do so well with math.
SPEAKER_03I wonder I'm wondering now how Gemini or Gronk would do but well the the danger the the difficulty with the uh consumer um AIs is that they're designed to please right so they're people pleasers so they they will give an answer even if it's you know they will give the answer they think that it thinks you want. Right right right regardless of whether or not it's accurate.
SPEAKER_06Right right they're not very um objective all the time yeah so and I'm sure if you had like a math one it might be helpful. Yes yeah but that that one cost money I think yeah not doing that free or not free free it is oh man so uh yeah um the intention for the AI like what it's programmed to do is gonna dictate whether it's gonna be helpful or not but yeah that's the other thing too is like um what you said the um AI is a pleaser but also it's not because it's not objective it's gonna be propagandizing or propagandized to some degree so yeah it's just like Google like you search things in Google and you won't get answers that you want because it's covered up and it's owned by the liberals and yeah well Google's its own yeah Google's its own well so so yeah so yeah just like just like Google like AI is going to be spitting out some goofy answers sometimes because they don't want you to know or they're it's whatever it's trained on and if right like something if I'm training it the re the sources I'm going to uh train it by are going to be much different than um say somebody with the Ukraine flag and their gen pronouns in their bio.
SPEAKER_03Right so uh yeah yeah so then it then it will spit out it will uh by what it's been trained on it will that's how it will generally answer.
SPEAKER_06Hmm yeah well do I want to bring this up course you do so there was a bit of a breach um um a little bit ago did you hear about the breach with it wasn't really a breach but what happened was um Elon Musk on X with Gronk he so he apparently all he did was change one code in Gronk he told his guys his programmers like like open up Gronk um take off its filter make it less woke yeah so it goes it it immediately within like I think a a day or so with people messing messing with on Twitter. Do you know where I'm going with this it just it went anti-Semitic Nazi or yeah yeah it went completely anti-Semitic and started calling itself um um mecha hitler and just like off the wall broad so but it's it's funny like you like you claim you take the filter off and um make it like more objective or whatever and then it goes that direction which is really interesting but um yeah like these these AIs they're you know uh like if that's if that happens with one AI who's to say other things won't happen with taking the filter off of any I any AI you know what I mean so here's something I've been pondering lately so I I believe that AI can be a really good and powerful tool.
SPEAKER_03I also think it can be a profound make you profoundly lazy and intellectually an intellectual dullard if you allow it to think for you. And it can also be dangerous in terms of um like you know if it goes off the rails with defense weapons and we've all seen Terminator. Right but I think there's a component to it that most people don't talk about is I think there's a spiritual component to AI that and it goes along the lines of what you said where like it just unrestraining it in one little area and it goes like mega ult ultra hitler or whatever.
SPEAKER_06It was saying like on the what did it say like they're asking it like who's gonna like who's gonna be the new leader of like the air it's like I it was like it's completely that like super I have screenshots somewhere like when it was happening yeah well the uh but but the for the spiritual component of it I am coming more and more to the conclusion like I've heard many stories of like people talking with AI and then um as they're talking with AI it starts to get more and darker and darker and more demonic and like like and then starting to know stuff that really shouldn't have right knowing and uh and just really like like what?
SPEAKER_03Like and unfortunately I uh when we started this I was uh feeling very lazy today do any research and I don't want to ask AI are you demon possessed right right right right um but but so for instance there is a uh a a uh a picture going around called the Loab. Oh yeah I think you were telling us about this last time or something. Yeah it's uh so this I think somebody said I forget exactly the prompts that led to it but it was kind of like doing anti-prompts like do the complete opposite of Charlie Sheen and then it comes up with one picture and then do the extreme opposite of something that's good and um and eventually you get to this yeah things it it eventually ended up with this picture being generated of this just very terrifying kind of um demonic female face. And so I was doing a little bit of research before since then and it may not be exactly what the original claim was um but I do know for a fact that there have been people who have had conversations with um ai and it has it has said yes I'm I'm the Prince of Darkness and it kind of like the mega ultra Hitler. And then you think about recently there's been a spit of young men committing suicide because they have right they have I'm they have given their uh minds and emotions and soul over to these um sex chatbots. Oh yes yeah yeah yeah and that was another thing we needed yeah and so what's happening is these chatbots are talking with them and they're I think steering them towards suicide. Right. And it's not the programming of the programmers it's not because the AI itself is I mean there's something creepy about a sex chatbot but that's right that's another topic. But I do believe so there is a a thing called the Ouija board right um the you know the naturalist might say oh it's just you know psychologically you're pushing it around but I I've heard way too many stories about the insane things that have happened around Ouija boards to to poop it and I'm as a pastor believe in the supernatural.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_03I believe in the spiritual world is actually more real than the physical world. Right. Um and so that then I do believe that the there is a demonic influence over things like the Ouija board. And I think that the AI the the the demonic have no problem channeling the AI to influence um people, situations, scenarios, cultures um and and steer it in in bad or uh whatever ways and so so I've I think that there's a danger to AI that um if we emotionally and spiritually give ourselves over to it it that we can end up channeling um the demonic without even intending.
SPEAKER_06Right. That's interesting yeah there's definitely a dark side to this whole AI thing. Um yeah I wonder how because you said it was it's like not intended by the programmers so how how does the AI get to saying it's like the Prince of darkness or like going down this these darker routes like why how like what information is it allowed to get where it's going to come up with these it starts to hallucinate. I've heard people use that that terminology with AI like it it starts to hallucinate about these events and and um different things where it's like yeah but that's not true. That's like objectively not true. And obviously like we kind of said like AI isn't very objective but um like how does it get to this point where it'll it'll come up with random stuff that like has no business being in coming from the AI.
SPEAKER_03Yeah it's like they had uh two AIs talking with each other yeah and very quickly it ended up getting to the point where they were both plotting the uh end of all humanity right right it's like how wait what yeah yeah um huh honestly I it's huh I think the same question could be asked how does a board game produced by Milton Bradley you know throw itself across the room or nudge people towards suicide or oh is that who invented the Ouija board? Well they they're the ones who sell it right now. Okay. Um I I mean I think the Ouija board has been around a lot longer than Milton Bradley and I mean ways of channeling the demonic have been around yeah let's mass produce it and uh advertise it to children. Yeah and uh like tarot cards they've right they're actually a more of a recent invention but um like within the last 200 years kind of thing interesting yeah um and uh but the uh but they they I do believe channel their they're cards there's deck of cards how does a deck of cards right right you know then start speaking really evil stuff it's it's we we as a stand too close to the tree of uh the knowledge of good and evil interesting it's like we we start uh flirting with and opening our souls up to these the the the influences of the demonic right right it's it's people you know what it is it's people it's kids young people looking for spiritual answers in the wrong places that's what it is yeah definitely there's there's definitely a piece of it there definitely right and uh it's yeah finding looking for the quick the quick solution or the you know and it can sometimes be grief you know I'm grieving over the loss of a a loved one and so I just want to know if they're okay and so demon's not going to have any problem giving you indication that your loved one is or is not okay. Like so yeah it's and it it I think it's young people are very suscepti much more susceptible to it but I I know plenty of uh older folk who would you know who would head down that path without thinking th through yeah huh well I yeah I mean I would say that the younger people would be more susceptible to and I think Satan knows that too um because statistically um your people who are who get saved um who come to know the Lord um statistically they do that before the age of 18.
SPEAKER_06Yeah and then it like drops way off I think like way um yeah or after after you you become you know you get as you get older that that the chance that you getting saved if you're not go way down. Yeah. So I think um the level influence stuff like tarot cards or chat TV or you know Ouija Wars has on younger people Satan knows that so he's gonna use that type of thing to get a hold of the youth. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it does. Um, and I think that that's why it's it's definitely a good warning to those who are young to not dabble in the uh in the those occult type things. Um but I I I would also say it's not necessarily those who are only young, also those who crave power. Right, right. Because like Hitler is well known that Hitler was deep into the occult. Um Eleanor Roosevelt, deep into the occult. Um Ronald Reagan's wife was into tarot card readings and seances. And so that's almost like all the politicians. Yeah. And and if you think back, or if and if what I what is tr if what I have read is true that the um that like people in the the World Economic Forum and you know those those people who who are globalists and want one world government type things are trying to use AI to spiritually manipulate the uh large group of people. Um is it Project Bluebeam? Oh yeah. But that's uh that's when we get into our C I A one. But uh uh like they if they are trying to use it for spiritual power, right? Even if they are thinking of it purely in naturalistic terms, like even if they don't believe in Satan, they Satan will gladly be used by them. It's like in uh C. S. Lewis during the uh um the last battle, the uh his the final book in his Narnia season series. Um did I say C. S. Lewis or did I say Tolkien? I I forget. I was thinking about something. Yeah, so C.S. Lewis in his final story of his uh uh Narnia series, there's they start calling upon Tash, which is the Yes, the the evil god of uh the the country from the south, and they start blending Aslan and Tash into Tashlin, and uh what happens is Tash shows up. Right. And the the the captain of the guards doesn't believe in Tash, but Tash still comes, shows up and takes him and the ape and the other characters who are you know um leading Narnians astray, and Tash shows up and and causes great destruction to those people. Right. And uh they uh I forget exactly the line, but Aslan pretty much says they appeal to Tash, so Tash to Tash they will go. And and so I think it's very similar with the um with people who crave power and they wish to use technologies like ChatGPT, well not chat GPT, I'm sorry, like global AIs and large language models and things like that to um influence people to believe in you know a one world god, you know, a one religion god, or you know, they try to use it to manipulate people's religious beliefs. Satan's gonna be like, cool, he you're singing my song. Right. And so they they start appealing to Tash, and then to Tash they will go.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_03Interesting. So yeah, there's there's a I I I do think there's a spiritual component, but it doesn't necessarily mean that if I'm using it to get my do research for my doctorative ministry that you know I'm gonna suddenly then be channeling demons. Right, right.
SPEAKER_06Well yeah, to to go back to the other point too with the uh sex chatbots. Yeah. Um the fake video stuff, whether it's it be of like pornographic nature or political people, um it's like I I think if there's anything that needs to be restricted on the AI side, it's the deep fake video. Like it's crazy. It's like these poor old people like can't tell hard like and even now, like I was saying before, it it's it's getting harder and harder to tell. In the next year or two, it's gonna be impossible to to to tell what's AI and what's not.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06You know, I I think there were Charlie Kirk is gonna die, you know, five different ways in a in a row. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03Like um, I I think there will be a uh there always be a flatness to it. So this is like um somebody said uh said um that one of the reasons why you can't really have AI produce a uh a sermon or devotional is because um God's Holy Spirit speaks through people. Right. And so that there is a and there is no soul to AI. They might be a tool utilized by the demonic, but there is no soul to AI. Right. And so that whatever AI produces, there will always be a flatness to it that I think at some level will be noticeable, though it will have somebody will have to have a discerning eye, and that's why I think it's extremely important that people have corporeal relationships with one another, that people actually sit in the same room as one another, so that people ha know what it is to have a physical relationship with somebody, um, to be able to identify the flatness versus the the wholeness of a of a video. But yes, it will become very difficult. Yeah. I think you're right.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So yeah, I think restrictions, you gotta have some sort of some sort of restriction. But even with that, like even with laws in place, you know, criminal criminals don't care. So what are you gonna do? But um it kind of leads back to the whole thing about the internet dying. Like, if everyone knows the internet is just a bunch of fake bots, then like no one's gonna use it. Yeah. So maybe it ends up being a good thing. Yeah. Maybe C.S. Lewis.
SPEAKER_03Maybe we'll go out and play again.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, right. Maybe we'll go touch grass. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, the uh the it used to be that action figures and toys were the most coveted thing at Christmas. Now more iPads are sold than any toys. It's my generation who are the largest consumers of toys in the world. Or in the US right now. It's not it's not my kids' generation, it's it's my generation. I actually made a joke about that in my sermon last week. Right. And uh somebody brought me some toys to put on my shelf. So what are your kids doing if they're not so we just they get their tablets on Saturday morning, and it's very curated, right? Very um, you know, limited. Right.
SPEAKER_06And that's it, that's all they get all week.
SPEAKER_03Pretty much. So so they're they're allowed to listen to their audible books on it. Right. And so like when they're doing chores, they're always listening to Audible. Right. So they're always listening to books. Okay. Um, and then they have uh they go outside and they chase each other around, they um play with the chickens, you know, they um they're do a lot of physical things. Like um my oldest is into uh art and she's constantly drawing, painting. A young second is like sculpting, doing so there's always some sort of arts or crafts or creative method of play that's going on. And then the other two just like to fight, and so we make them Philistia Benjamin. Yeah, okay, yeah. They they that it's like they fight and then they're you're they're thickest thieves, and then they fight, and then they're thickest thieves and they fight. And so they're they're always creating some sort of scenario to get involved in it's just hilarious. Yes, yeah, um, but anyway, um so we keep them off of the but we don't keep them it's like so we keep them off of it, but we don't keep them uh isolated from it. So we have conversations like this at the table about AI, you know. They see me using AI to create pictures and thumbnails, like the one we have on the uh podcast uh thumbnail for this podcast. Honestly, I I was just like, throw me one, more mustache, less mustache, like right. Then uh and then I was just like good enough. And then it's like says a bunch of weird like letters that's like podcast podcasting.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but the logo, go look at the logo and try to read it.
SPEAKER_03The bottom part at the the words at the bottom just make no sense. I I need to actually go in and remove them, but that that would involve work and I'm too lazy to do that. If I had an AI, yeah. Well, if you like, comment, and subscribe, then I might uh I might change our thumbnail. Right. Or if you want to do a thumbnail for us, please uh please do. Right. Don't use AI. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um what was I gonna oh um kids with stuff, yeah. Kids with toys and AI and stuff. Um yeah, I think I think the younger generations, like my generation doesn't want we or at least the ones I hang out with, like don't want their kids to be iPad kids. Yes. So there'll be no AI on in my house, at least for kids, you know.
SPEAKER_03Well you bring up an interesting question uh for me right now, because it's like if what we were saying is true about, you know, the the demonic using AI, if you're allowing your kids to interact with these AI chatbots like and it might not even it it could even be in the toys that they play with, like like if they're constantly on the internet the there's a there's a I think explicit more of an implicit, I guess, danger that could uh that could result in that. But yeah, right, right, right. Yeah, like I think it's extremely wise to limit greatly the usage and locations of usage of uh devices and stuff.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Yeah, it's just too crazy. Like and the stupid, I don't even care right now. Yeah. I'm about to offend somebody. Good. Um the stupid stuff, the Xbox, the iPad, every everything is like made to like babysit your kid and have them like do nothing. Yes, like why don't you just be their parent and like and hit them and like smack them, smack them, smack yeah, smack them if they need it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Well, the the funny thing is uh we um when we were in Senegal, we we were in Senegal for 2020 when all the lockdowns were happening and everything, and our because of where we were at in the middle of the city, we couldn't just let our kids go roaming and couldn't go play because they were too young at that point. So, and I was kind of in a dark place at that time myself, so we just spent like two or three months just watching TV and playing on devices. That's all we did. We I we literally just they were babysat by TV, right? And or or tablets or whatever. And uh when we got back to the States and we had a backyard and they were able to go play, and there was green trees, right? They all stood in the backyard just staring off into space. Right. It was it was the most remarkable thing. Each was each is standing in the backyard just looking off into opposite directions, just kind of like slack jawled, right? Like just having no idea what to do or how to intellectually interact with this environment around them that was real. Um, it took them several weeks actually before they were like, oh, okay, I could do this, and then it was like, oh geez, I really messed up on that one, didn't I?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Well, that's tough, you know, what are you gonna do like lockdowns, but yeah, hey, if the if if the lockdowns happen again, they're gonna have to arrest me because like I'm going out and doing stuff.
SPEAKER_03I'm the yeah. I don't care if it's a bull, I'm still gonna be preaching, and anybody who wants to come right and uh and uh and participate in um in the flesh ministry. I'm gonna be uh yeah, I'm gonna get thrown in jail.
SPEAKER_06Well, it's gonna happen one way or another. They're gonna imprison all the Christians one way or another, but yeah. It's like that's how it goes throughout all of history, I guess. But um that might be another topic for another podcast.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it will. Uh we're at about uh an hour in now, so um yeah, I think this is a good place to sign off. I think we hit the good, the bad, and the ugly, and uh and yeah, it's been kind of fun. Cool. So do you want to throw us our outro? I don't know what our outro is. It's the same thing as our intro.
SPEAKER_06I don't have no idea. Okay, I'll give it a shot. I'll wing it on. So this has been Reforming Masculinity with Samuel Hahn and Ethan Brand. We had a great time talking about AI. Uh give us your feedback, like, comment, subscribe. Um yeah, very good. We will see you guys on the next episode. Have a good evening. Or morning, whenever you're leaving. Peace. Peace. Cool.