Kat Lees - KaNect Limited

In this episode, we’re joined by Kat, a Chartered Environmentalist and Chartered Resource and Waste Management Consultant with over 17 years’ experience. Kat has worked across the UK and Ireland specialising in waste and resource management for major urban regeneration projects. She shares insights from her career journey, from starting at Veolia and building a specialist team at AECOM, to founding her own consultancy, KaNect Limited. Kat also talks about her work with the Chartered Institute of Waste Management and the Environmental Industries Commission, as well as her passion for mentoring the next generation of environmental professionals.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'm Faith Abudu, and this is the DIIC podcast. Right, okay. So with me today I've got Kat Lee's. Have I pronounced that correctly? Right. So I'll let you do the introduction. I'll I'll just stick with just giving your name out there. Um, but if you want to talk me through first year journey, you run your own business now, don't you? Yeah. Waste management side of things. So talk me through that. How have you started?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

And so originally I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do. Um I was interested in um geography and biology and chemistry at college. Um so I studied those and then didn't have a clue what I wanted to do. And I went to university um to do environmental science. Um so with environmental science that was pulling across my geography, chemistry, and biology. And while I was at university, I um someone came in and they said they worked in environmental assessment, impact assessment. I was like, what's that? So I kind of got interested in that world, which basically it's um helping developers and architect get plan admission. If you're developing a certain site over a certain size, you need to do an environmental assessment. So you need to look at how that new development is going to impact um not only the environment but the social structure and the economy. So it kind of pulls together everything. Um, so I was set on okay, I'm gonna go and do environmental impact assessment, I'm gonna be a project manager. Um, I had um a job lined up with a company called URS, which is now ACOM, because Acom now took over URS. Um so I had the job there and it was my first interview. I was very confused. I went in, it was a Friday. Um the boss kind of made me wait for an hour in reception. I was very confused. And then he came out in shorts and flip-flops because it was dressed down Friday. And I didn't know this, that on a Friday that there's Dress Down Friday in an office environment. And then he kind of said, Okay, well, what how what salary do you want? What do you want? And I was very confused because I was expecting this as my first interview to be quite formal and ask me questions. And he said, Okay, you've got the job. Um, but we want you to go away and find yourself and go skiing and finish your degree, and then you come to us when you want. So I was like, Okay, very confused. Um, walked away from there, had the job secured, um, but I needed a job in the interim. So Veolia headhunted me, which is a waste management company.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

So I went to work for Veolia while I was still doing my masters and um was involved in their kind of procurement and business development side of the team, which woke opened me up to the world of waste because I didn't really think that was an option. So then after I worked there for a while, um I went to work for um URS now ACOM, but obviously already had me secured me the job. Um so I was at Violet for about a year and then I went into URS Acom. And when I was there, I realized they didn't have any waste consultants. So I kind of said, This is a big field, this is gonna be, there's gonna be lots of government uh legislation and targets coming out, it's important. And they're like, No, it's not important. We don't really, we're not really interested in waste consultancy. But I kept kind of banging the drum, I kept kind of annoying people, and then one day one of the seniors said, Okay, okay, I've got a client that's willing to kind of let you experiment on their project. And I wrote um and made up a waste impact assessment for waste, and then it just grew. Then every kind of once they saw the value of it, every developer and every architect wanted support on that in the waste kind of consultancy area. Um, and I built a team within ACOM, I built a waste team alongside my project management role, and it just kind of got bigger and bigger. And then I became a member of the Chartered Institute of Waste Management, and when I became a member of the Chartered Institute of Waste Management, I got exposed to a lot of waste officers, um, people working in the in the council, and they kind of said to me, Cat, we don't understand, we're getting all these developments come through, and there's all these problems in terms of waste. We've got bins in the basement, we haven't got lifts big enough to get the bins out, we've got bins all over the road, it's a nightmare. So then I started advising um waste officers to put it in their plan planning validation checklist. And then, so when I first started about 15, 20 years ago in the waste industry, there was no uh 15-20 years ago. Yeah, don't mind me asking how old are you then?

SPEAKER_02 4:17

You look so young seriously, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Um so yeah, I've been in the waste industry a while now, and when I first started, there was no um planning policy that required developers to write an operational waste management strategy. So I kind of supported um waste officers to get it into their validation checklist and write local policy that they need these documents. And now, if you look at any London um planning process now, it's in every validation checklist that you need an operational waste management strategy. And it's key when you're looking when you're working on a development, if you haven't got the waste and servicing strategy done, then it's gonna be a nightmare going forward. Yeah. Um, and when I first started, I would get involved really late in the day. So in the planning world and the architectural world, um, we have a thing called design freeze, which is when you've been working on a project for quite a few years and then we set the design, we freeze it. And once design is frozen, you don't really want to change anything because it has knock on effects to everyone. Um, I remember my first one of my first projects was near Canary Wharf in South Key Plaza, and I went into the architect's office and there was a huge amount of people in that room, about 30 people in the room, and the architect kind of pinned looked at me and said, Okay, you want 200 bins in this this development, and we've got no room. And if you want this, it's going to have knock on effects to X, Y, and Z. So everyone hated me. So I kind of worked quite hard with uh the planners and the architects then, and they've seen the value of it, and I get involved really early on now to advise. So I'm not a hindrance anymore, I'm a help. Um, so yeah, so waste has kind of gone from strength to strength, and I do operational waste management strategies. I support during the demolition construction phase. I've also um written a key policy for the London Plan, um, which now looks at circular economy, and within the circular economy statement, there is a need for a pre-demolition audit. So I kind of am the leader in the pre-demolition audits where we're actually trying to keep materials in um use for as long as possible. So instead of things going to landfill, we've now got a target within the London plan where um we're trying to divert at least 95% of material away from landfill. And we're also trying to, um, especially within London policy, you reuse and recycle at least 20% of that material back in the new design. So it's I'm passionate about it. I'm it it means something. When I was working in environmental impact assessment, you'd write these lengthy documents, they'd go into planning, you think who really reads them? Whereas now I'm kind of really embedded in the design process, really making sure that the developments work and they're sustainable, and we're actually making a difference in terms of the environment, the economy, and the social structure, it's helping everybody.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

It's particularly an area where um it's quite overlooked. No one really thinks about roles within that area. So, what sort of the roles, for instance, should anyone looking into waste management um area of whether it's construction or in general built environment, what sort of roles should they be looking at?

SPEAKER_01 7:14

So there's loads of different roles. There's I mean, you mentioned that everyone kind of wants to be a quantity surveyor. When what we struggle with is when we find quantity fiers, they're not the quantity kind of quantifiers that we particularly need. So within the waste industry, especially with pre-demination audits, we need building surveyors that know quantities. So a lot of quantity surveyors think they can't do what we do, but it's kind of having those conversations with quantity surveyors and saying we just reverse the process instead of just looking at the costs and trying to build something, we're trying to dismantle something. So it's kind of having those conversations with people, and all the surveyors I've I work with now have never done what I've done before, but I've had a conversation with them, I've taken them site and I've kind of shown them what we need and hold held their hand, and now they're the best surveyors that we've got. We've had um a guy that is an architect and he's got a background in quantity surveying as well. Said, I don't do this, he now does it for us. We've got a guy that just inspects bridges and now he does the pre-demolition audits for us, a guy that was just party wall surveyor, and now he does it for us. So if you can measure and you have that qualification, there are other areas that you can look into, right? But also in other areas, in terms of waste and recycling, we are consultants, we're advising the architects and development, we're looking at the planning, we're looking at transport. So there are all of these other areas like transport consultants that help with the servicing, landscape architects that help design. So we're embedded in within the design as well as the that's all hands-on going to sites. So when you look at the construction industry and the waste management industry, it's not necessarily you go in, you're gonna pick up dirty bins, you're working on a dirty construction site, it's all of those other areas that we need to get there in the first place. So helping with the design, helping with the planning pro the processing, the consultancy.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

So actually, starting earlier on at the very design stage of projects, um, regardless of what kind of project it is, because you've got the education, because in in the case of Prima, for instance, we do a lot of education uh development projects, and and obviously when you talk housing as well, it it just I want to believe that applies as well. Yeah, so it cuts across sector, I'll I'll think. Right, okay, because uh if I go back to my days at London South East College, because I did uh construction a two-year management course, uh construction management course, and I remember submitting my report on uh sustainability in construction in how we take um materials from the earth and we don't think about how we replenish, you know, how we put it back there. What do we do to ensure that the environment um is sustainable because we just keep taking darnly? When we look that in some cases, um it's not all construction materials are recyclable. So, what do you what do you do, or how do you advise on projects like that where a high percentage of materials are not recyclable, obviously you would need to dispose them. We want to ensure they don't end up in um landfills. It can be quite expensive for SMEs. Yeah. Um main contractors, yeah, they might be able to deal with it, but what about the the smaller companies?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

So when we go and do a pre-demolition audit, we look at everything within that the building on site as it is. So we're not only looking at the concrete and the grip, the brick and the glass, we're all looking at carpet tiles, lighting, um, in internal doors, we're looking at everything. And obviously, yes, we do need to consider the cost of it because if you take down a wall brick by brick, it's gonna be very labour intensive, it's gonna be very costly, it's gonna take time. You when you once you've dismantled that brick wall, a lot of the bricks are gonna crack because they're they're held together with quite a hard cement. Um, if you go and test them, they might not be structurally sound to reuse them back in a new design. But we facilitate conversations with the whole of the design team to see what options we've got in there. So a lot of developments they have to bring in fresh material anyway for your pile map or to bring gradients up to or fill. So if you're bringing fresh material in any way, why don't why can't you have mobile crushers on site, crush your material and re- and and use that? There is obviously testing and things that we need to look into, but the majority of our sites now are bringing mobile crushers on site, crushing that concrete and brick and using that as your your fill. And it might be a temporary use, yeah, but it's still gonna help you. That's a brilliant idea, though. It's great, yeah. Ideally, we want to kind of reuse the material in its actual form. So when we just talked about crushing material, that's called recycling and downgrade, down cycling, really, because you're um not reusing that brick in its actual form. Yeah, but it's still a good use, we're still not bringing fresh material back onto site, we're still being able to utilize what we've got. Um, and some clients now they are they're they're digging lower down and having their slab level lower. So the the pile mat is that that material just does stay. Um, it's not obviously suitable for every development, but still that temporary use is gonna be great. Um, but we we look at everything. So we look at um with the brick, okay. We might not be able to use it structurally, but if we did take down the brick walls, could we use it in perimeter walls? Could we use it in paving? Could we use it in making planters or landscape features that we're that we're gonna need anyway? So it's just getting the design team to think outside the box and think how we can use these different materials. And there are a lot of materials that because we when we go to site, we also we don't only look at the quality of the material, we look at the the um, we don't look at the quantity of material, we look at the quality. Yeah, so in terms of the circular economy, you still need to look at is that material at the end of its life or can it be reused? So, and some developers they're not going to want to put in old carpets or old uh sink or bathroom units, but we say, okay, well, can we use again it's a temporary use, can we use these elements in the welfare facilities for the demolished construction process, which they're open to? Can we say um to local councils or local charities or schools, we've got this material, do you need any material? Can we set up procurement pro uh um platforms or material banks? So other sites, if you've got a big company, they might have three or four sites within the London area, they could share material or residents, residents might be refitting their how their house. Could they have the kitchen sink, the bathroom units, the floor tiles? And then when we have got things that are definitely we can't reuse because carpet tiles have been in um they've been they're very worn, they've been there for 20 years. We'd also can advise clients on there's these different companies that will take old and worn carpets or other materials and repurpose them and bring them back to a good standard of use. So there is a lot of things that you can think outside the box for these materials that can be reused. Um, there's lots of companies now that will take steel and they'll make um steel with recycled content. Yeah. So it's not only reusing it where it is, it's can we have that bank of materials? And there's companies that will kind of take that material for you and and then they're reproducing steel instead of fresh steel that we're we're producing, which we don't really want to do, we're now producing steel with a higher content of recycled material within that um material. Yeah, so there's lots of things that we that we can think about within with in terms of reuse of materials.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Okay, so I want to bring gender to play here. Yeah. In your years, you know, the decade of experience you've had within waste management, um, what's the percentage you would say we've got of women representation within?

SPEAKER_01 15:11

So, in terms of the waste industry, when I first started, there was not many people in the waste and women in the waste industry at all. Now there is more and more because their understanding and the work that I do with the Chart Institute of Waste Management, we um we work quite heavily with people early on in their careers, and you're seeing more and more people females coming into the sector. Um, admittedly, the people that are coming into the to women that are coming into the sector, majority of them are in those um consultancy roles, planning roles, um, design roles. So there's more architects, there's more planners, there's more consultants. Um, but you are we are, and that's why we want to encourage people into the more operational side of the waste management industry. It's not glamorous, it's not um kind of sexy and cool at the moment to have these kind of roles, but they are really good roles, and they are, and you can develop quite quickly in these roles. Um, so in terms of the waste industry as a whole, probably when I first came into it, five-10% of women that I've come across in in total, and majority of those women are are in the kind of admin roles and things. Now we're seeing a lot more people, but in terms of operational, there's still I mean I don't officially know the the the numbers, but when I go to waste sites and actually see on construction sites, there's I don't bump into many women at all.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Of course, crane crusher, uh a lady that I want to bring on the podcast. Uh, we're already in conversation, so watch out for that. Um, that's gonna be a very interesting one because she she's amazing, she's she's like you, she is very much this is what I do, and I don't care what anyone says, you know, she holds it. Um so sorry to interrupt. If you're enjoying this content and you'd like to participate, please get in touch. Email us at info atdic.org.uk. In the time that you've been, you mentioned that it's been okay, since you started, we should be looking at around the maybe 5%, and it's grown since then, but operational side of things is still relatively low. Um what this is probably a uh a question for for the industry or the waste management side of things as a whole. Um, but what do you think we can do um as an industry to sort of help the shortage of skills in that area, in that sector? I think because it's quite niche as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yeah, it's very niche. Um, but it's I'm I'm really excited that I work in the waste industry. I love the waste industry. All my friends know me as kind of the waste geek. The waste geek. I go on holiday and I'm taking pictures of bins and things, and I love it. Um, it's a passion of mine because I see that it's not only about kind of dirty, smelly bins, it's about materials. Everything is a material and everything is a resource. Yeah, it's not a waste. Um, and there's so much, so, so many changes that are happening now in in the waste industry, um, which is great. You're gonna see a lot of policies coming forward now that is gonna affect the communities and local the public in a huge way that you wouldn't necessarily think about. Um, so that that's exciting to see those changes, and legislation and policy are now driving the importance of this because we can't, as you said, we can't keep taking from the earth. We can't keep just taking and putting it back in landfill. We're closing a lot of our landfills now, we're having to think about other ways to manage our waste. With us um Brexiting, we we can't just um there's now new legislation. So the Environment Act, um, we've got a new environment act that's come out now, and we're kind of saying that we can't, there's legal legislation in now. We can't be sending our material to developing countries. China have kind of closed their doors on us, sending all of our material abroad. We need to manage our waste within the UK, we're a very small country. How are we going to manage all this waste that we create? And being a developed society now, we're all for convenience. So we kind of need to need to take a step back. So, in terms of getting women into the sector, it's it's hugely important because we're looking at lifestyle as well, we're looking at packaging. So, if someone's interested in um product design and packaging, how are we gonna that helps the waste industry because we don't need to be packaging all of our fruit and vegetables in plastic, we don't need to have all of this plastic waste that we're finding, and that's what's causing the problem. So there's so many different assets, facets to the waste industry that you wouldn't think about in terms of marketing, product design, legislation, policy writing, um, communication, that not just the hands-on um areas, but in terms of getting more people into those hands-on areas, as you mentioned, it's all about communication. It's making people realise that these are really good um careers to have. Not obviously, uh, back in the day, everyone thinks, okay, I need to be a doctor, I need to be a lawyer to be successful. Typical. The waste industry and the construction industry is so vast, and you can progress quite quickly within that industry, especially if you've got a niche area that you're looking at. Like what I do in terms of waste and resource consultancy, there's not many companies out there that do that. When I first started my company Connect, I had a developer come to me and they needed a pre-dominition audit, and they said we've gone to 70 different companies, waste companies or consultancy companies, and no one does this area. And with the new legislation, there's a lot of innovation that if you're ahead of the game, you can fit into these roles nicely. Um, but yeah, again, going back to trying to get more diverse um communities and women into construction. I think it's as you mentioned, going into schools, going into colleges, explaining to people that these are these are good careers. These are these are gonna you'll be in this career forever and you can progress into all these different areas. Um I think it's it's an amazing industry to be in the construction industry and the waste industry because you can uh pull on so many different um aspects and um skills that you've got and really hone them. You might and you might start off on a rational role, but then you can quickly develop into a project management role or an overseeing or training or and building your skill set in so many different areas.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

I mean, I've told this story before. I transitioned from the media industry into construction, and uh I saw a gap there is the fact that um the construction industry, or should I say, built environment. We know there's a problem. We talk about it in the background, we we chat about it, um but we're not really addressing how information is disseminated, we're not really addressing our target audience correctly. Yeah. Um I was saying to someone the other day, oh, when all of these content they they don't only just go on um Spotify and Amazon and Apple uh podcasts, they they also on Instagram, on and I mentioned TikTok, and she was like, TikTok, really? Um do you not get bashed? You know, do you do you not get comments um you know that discourage you from doing what you do then? And I'm like, but that's where the audience is. If we're gonna target the young people, if you look at LinkedIn, for instance, a lot of the audience you've got on LinkedIn are people that already know what they want to do, they have a reason to be there, they know the companies that they're targeting, they know the industry they want to go into or career they want to pursue. The young ones that we're actually looking at, they're on TikTok, yeah, they're scrolling away, trying to find themselves, and we're in that generation where a lot of the young people today believe, oh, I can make a lot more money online. Yes, they can, but can we then take this information about the industry to them and bring them into the LinkedIn platform where they can then navigate and maneuver themselves as to where or what career path within built environment that they want to pursue? Um, but I think the construction industry, or should I say, built environment, I'm trying to move away from just the word construction and incorporate it as built environment because we've got the civil engineering side of things. And especially now we're talking waste management. Yeah, again, it's for us to make sure that we're targeting our audience correctly. Yeah, let's take this information to the young people on TikTok, get them educated about the industry, and then bring them on to the LinkedIn platform to say, okay, now you can go out there and and you know, find yourself, find that role that you think will perfectly suit you, and you find your way and find what works for you from there on. Um, but as you mentioned before, is it's for us as an industry for us to understand that um the support that we need, um, stats with communication, and I think this is what we were talking about earlier. Is actually talking about this problem and finding solutions to it, moving away from that ticks tick box exercise of yeah, the procurement process. So we need to secure that contract, it's part of requirements for us to just do this. Um that needs to change, hence the reason why um DIIC is set up as a movement to sort of let us come together, let's create a one-stop shop platform where we can talk about what the problems are, address it together, and collectively change the industry and make real impact and avoid this looming chaos that is likely to land on our doorsteps if nothing is done in the next decade. I don't know if we still got till 2050 before we realise that if nothing is done, we're not. I mean, since Bessie, it's gone worse. We've had skills shortage in the industry, it's gotten worse. We've had massive movement out of um the UK. We've got um aging workforce that we're not doing nothing about. We can move people from tools to admin roles, and then obviously we need to then refill those roles that you know they're gonna come off. But then how do we do that if we're not working together? Everyone wants to be seen as, yeah, I'm doing my own thing, but are you really making a difference? Are you making an impact? So let's acknowledge uh different expertise. You know, I'm quite good with getting this information on online and targeting audience correctly, bring them um to the right um potential employers that will then take them on, yeah, help them understand and identify the um opportunities that are available in the different areas in construction, yeah um, and on the diversity side of things, I know we talked about um women in construction or in your area of business uh waste management, but what about women in leadership in your journey?

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Because you're soon to be chair of yes, at the Chartered Institute of Waste Management, um I will become at the end of April um chair for the London and Southern counties. So basically, it's an organisation where so it and everyone knows if you're an accountant, you aspire to be a chartered accountant or a chartered surveyor, for example. In the waste industry, we do have also a chartership program. Um, and we want more people to become chartered in the waste industry. It's really important that we've got people that know what they're doing who are advising uh developers and construction companies on what they need to be doing in terms of waste and recycling. And a couple of years ago, we realised that the chartered uh rather the chartered um process was kind of very academic. So obviously, within the waste industry and the construction engine, we've got a lot of people that aren't necessarily from an academic background. And what we've started to try and do now within the Chartered Institute of Waste Management is look at how people with less academic backgrounds can become chartered, and we're supporting them and we're mentoring them and we're showing there is different routes that you don't necessarily have to be um highly academic. If you know what your if you know your industry and um you're good at what you do, there is roles that you can become um chartered within a technical area rather than an academic area. And we're seeing more people that are now coming forward to to want to become chartered.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

So if you're out there and you would like to know more um about the Chathed Institute of Waste Management or about um Cat's business, which is Cat Connect uh consultancy, waste management consultancy, yeah. Um, we would leave the details somewhere around this video or just um below and text, it depending on on what platform you leave on, if you're on the podcast, um whether it's on Spotify, Amazon, or Apple Podcasts, or if you leave on Instagram, on TikTok, or if you are on LinkedIn, the text will be there somewhere around this video. Feel free to get in touch with Kare and she'll be happy to help you, whether it's with your business requirements or you've got general inquiries, or you're even considering roles within waste management, uh, as soon to be chair of Chappa the Institute of Waste Management. Yeah. Um, she will, I'm sure she'll be very much um willing to help or point you in the direction um in finding solutions to whatever problem you might have or or helping answer any questions you might have in that regard. So, yeah, let's come back to um the podcast then. So, if my final question to you would be what about in terms of age then, for older groups that might be coming off tools but wants to be within the waste management um side of business, what do you think they should be thinking about? Obviously, if they're coming off tools, they might not want to look at the operational side of things and it might be more of the admin side of things. How can we support that those groups of people?

SPEAKER_01 30:14

I think, as you said, it's communication, but it's also interest. I think if you're interested and are and passionate about what you do, you can find a role that will fit you in any area. Um within within changing careers at a at a later age, if you say, for example, with if you uh you're your work on site, you have got the expertise, you've got you've got hands-on experience. So my business partner, he was operational originally. So he's from Pakistan, he was leading uh a fleet um for the waste management fleets within Lahore, uh very operational. And when he came to the UK, he kind of applied for a role within Acom. And I saw the opportunities there. I thought, well, he hasn't maybe got any consultancy experience, but he knows what's happening, he knows operationally how things are working, and that's key because it's all well and good for me to advise behind a desk and say we should be doing X, Y, and Z. But he knows the problems, he knows the issues. And when you speak to people in the UK now who are hands-on, they're the waste uh the the drivers, the the collections, they're working at um on site, they know the issues, they know the problems. So if they did want to transition into those um more um consultancy roles, it's great to have someone like that because for me, I would I would leap at a chance of having someone that's operational because instead of just the tick boxes, as you said, and the okay, you need to do X, Y, and Z, they can talk you around why you need to do X, Y, and Z. And actually, just because a legislation says you have to do something doesn't work. So, what we also do in our consultancy area is we uh when we write operational waste management strategies and construction resource management plans, we will have negotiations with the council. So the council might say in planning policy, we need X, Y, and Z. But if it doesn't work for the development and it's not logical if it's going to work in practice, we will have conversations and agreements with the council before planning to say, can we actually think outside the box? Can we change things around and have this agreed? Because actually, on on site and in practice, it might not actually work. So having these people with these on-hand experience helps within the the planning and the the design process as well. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Okay, so at this stage, I would say if you want to give our audience um the um contact details, website, email address for your business, if anyone wants to reach out, how do we contact you, especially for listeners?

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Yeah, so we are currently a waste and resources consultancy helping developers and planners get planning permission for everything waste and uh resources. We are also now, we've just brought on a head of sustainability, so we're going to be helping local authorities and big businesses look at decarbonisation, net zero, and everything to do with sustainability. Um our company is called Connect with a K, so K-A-N-E-C-T, Connect Limited. So if you Google Connect Limited, we will come straight up on Google. Um, so yeah, just give us a message, just go on our website, you can easily email us there or info at connectconsultancy.com. Um, and also in terms of the Chartered Institute of Waste Management, if you are in the waste industry or looking to become um be involved in the waste industry, um, just look up uh CIWM, which is the Chartered Institute of Waste Management, and it will lead you to the website um to find everything you need.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Brilliant. And did this sort of give me the opportunity to announce as well that um Kat is now um a member, an ambassador for DIC, um, she will be helping in driving and championing and advocating um um for or in driving our advocacy for um more women um in built environments, increasing our representation, um, ethnic minorities. Um if the size of your hair is holding you back to actually join the industry, come and have a chat. There is always a solution because if you've got hair like mine or your pronunciation like mine, I still mix my H with my A sometimes, and my little ones will go, Mum, it's not A, it's H. So you should try and work it right, but it's owning who you are, isn't it? Um, so if those little things are still holding you back, we're open to a chat. Um, reach out to us, we're always willing and ready to help. We can um use our you know readily available contacts to sort of um point you in the right direction as to where you can get support. If you're trying to join the industry and you don't know how, or you're looking at being site ready, we can advise as well. Um, so yeah, um, if you want to be part of this podcast, um, do get in touch again. We are going to be leaving the details somewhere around this video. You've got our email address info at diic.org.uk. Um, we are a CIC uh as well, so we we're here to help. So do reach out. And if you do want to come on the podcast, again, it's faith abudu. So faith.abudu uh at diic.org.uk. So thank you for listening in. And yeah, as usual, keep championing for us. Um, keep championing for more women representation in built environment. We need more of that. We can't have enough of it. Uh, and we're not gonna shut up until we increase that representation. So, yeah, thank you for being part of today's episode, and uh yeah, until we catch you next time. Thank you for coming along today's podcast. We hope you've enjoyed today's content. Please do like, share, and follow for more.