S.2 Ep. 41: Every Rose Has Its Thorns: Sasha Peyton Smith on The Rose Bargain & The Thorn Queen

🎙️ Welcome back to The Mythic Mic Podcast, where bargains come with consequences, magic is as dangerous as it is seductive, and stories dare to ask what you’re willing to trade for power.

This week, hosts Bethany Amanda and Sara Santillan sit down with bestselling author Sasha Peyton Smith, the mind behind The Rose Bargain and its highly anticipated sequel The Thorn Queen. Sasha reflects on her unexpected path to authorship—from studying science and public health to discovering storytelling in her early twenties—and what it took to finally give herself permission to pursue writing. She shares how stubbornness, vulnerability, and a willingness to start before feeling “ready” ultimately shaped her career.

We also dive into the lush, dangerous world of The Rose Bargain, a story built on glittering deals, layered ambition, and the irresistible pull of power. Sasha unpacks the heart of the series and how writing for joy, rather than the market, transformed her storytelling.

🩸 What are you willing to trade to get everything you’ve ever wanted?
🌹 When ambition and desire collide, who do you become?
⚔️ And what happens when the most dangerous deals are the ones you choose?

This is a must-listen for romantasy lovers, aspiring authors, and anyone who believes magic should be as indulgent as it is dangerous.

🔥 IN THIS EPISODE, WE TALK ABOUT

✨ Sasha’s journey from science and public health to becoming a bestselling fantasy author.
✨ Why it took time to give herself permission to pursue writing.
✨ The role of stubbornness in finishing a first book.
✨ Navigating rejection and being dropped by a publisher.
✨ How Sasha created The Rose Bargain, including the first spark. 
✨ Writing for joy instead of chasing market trends.
✨ Why readers can expect from The Thorn Queen. 
✨ The evolution from debut author to building a larger fantasy universe. 

CONNECT WITH US

🎙️ The Mythic Mic Podcast – @MythicMic
👤 Bethany Amanda – @BethanyinFantasyland
👤 Sara Santillan – @the_magical_quill
📚 Sasha Peyton Smith – @SashaPeytonSmith

✨ If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review. It helps more fantasy readers and aspiring authors find their way to The Mythic Mic.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Mythic Mike Podcast, where myths, magic, and legendary stories come to life. Join your hosts, Bethany Amanda and Sarah Santillon, passionate authors, book collectors, and lovers of all things fantasy and romantic as they dive into epic worlds, enchanting tropes, and the books that leave us breathless. The Mythic Mike is your getaway to the magic of fantasy fiction. So grab your favorite bookish beverage, settle in, and let's step into the extraordinary. Now, here are your hosts.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of the Mythic Mike Podcast. I am so excited to be joined today by the incredible Sasha Peyton Smith, who, unless you've been living under a rock, you know is the author of last year's Sensation, The Rose Bargain, and the upcoming The Thorn Queen. Welcome, Sasha. Hi, thank you guys so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. We are thrilled and joining me as well as my co-host Sarah. Hi, Sarah.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Hi.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

All right, we are gonna get into this whirlwind of an episode. Just an FYI, folks. There are spoilers in this episode because we're talking about the Thorn Queen, which is book two. So if you haven't read The Rose Bargain yet, highly recommend that you take a moment, read that, and then come back for book two because we're gonna dive into all of our fun theories and questions for Sasha.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

So we won't we won't spoil the Thorn Queen, but unfortunately it's difficult to talk about the Thorn Queen without spoiling the Rose Bargain. So proceed with caution.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Exactly. Exactly. So come tune back in before you start The Thorn Queen, but after you've read Rose Bargain. Now, I know we just teased all of that, but before we get to anything spoilery, Sasha, we want to learn more about you. So tell us about yourself. Where are you from? Who are you? What do you love doing outside of writing?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

There's like nothing more anxiety I'm doing in a job interview than the being like, tell us about yourself. Being like, what what is you forget everything. I'm like, what do I do? What do I like? Where am I from? And then I'm like, who am I? Yeah, who am I? Yeah, I have no idea. Um, hi everybody. My name is Sasha. I am a young adult fantasy author. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Um, I lived in DC for 10 years. So oftentimes if you Google me, it's because I still live in DC. But I recently moved back to Salt Lake City, which is my hometown, with my husband. And we live in a very funky 120-year-old house that the original owner told me has two ghosts, but in my bio, I say I have yet to see the ghosts. I don't know if I followed the original owner to her new house or if they've just been lying very low. Allegedly with ghosts, you're supposed to say out loud, like, you can stay, but I don't want to see you. And so I have told them that. So maybe they are they are still around, but I have no interest in living with them as roommates. But you're totally fine with them there as long as you don't see them. They can chill as long as like they're not interfering. Or they're not just they're helpful. If they like want to fold my laundry, the ghosts are very welcome. Um, in addition to writing, I like bad reality TV and baking poorly and watercolor. And this year, I think like every other millennial girl, I'm looking to get into needlepointing. Ooh, yes. Hello.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

Everybody's talking about needle pointing.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

All the cool girls are needlepointing. Get into it.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

What bad reality TV are you watching?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Right now I'm on a big below deck binge. I had never watched below deck before, and then Delta had a whole season. And so, like while I was on a plane, I watched, I think I was like on my way to and from London, and on the way there and on the way back, I watched an entire season of Below Deck. And so now I'm like going through the back episodes. But like like any good Utah, I'm also watching Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, I'm watching The Hospital of Salt Lake City. Um, I mean, my my taste is pretty lowbrow. There's little I won't watch.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Oh my God. I love that. I also used to live in DC, so I love connection. Yeah, I lived there a few years. I'm a lawyer by background, so obviously that is the Everybody in DC.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah. Everybody there is illegal. Yeah, I lived in DuPont Circle for a decade and I missed DC. Yeah. Yeah, I live right on i Street. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Yeah, not far from I'm in California. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

We still love you, Sarah.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

I know. You guys are the cool kids.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I'm in Utah. I'm in Utah now. That's not that cool. I don't know. Is Sarah allowed in our needlepoint circle now?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Or are you allowed in our like Western girls needlepoint circle?

SPEAKER_04 4:13

Okay. She's gonna needlepoint Utah.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yeah, then the needlepoint circle is for everyone.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

So we've talked about all the crazy things that you do and enjoy. Can you tell us when you decided? What was that light bulb moment where you're like, I'm gonna be a writer and do it for money?

SPEAKER_01 4:28

It's so funny because so many of my friends that are writers who knew from like the moment they could hold a pen that it was the only thing they wanted to do. And that wasn't the case for me. I wanted to be a lot of different things when I was growing up. I wanted to be a teacher and a lawyer and a fashion designer and a doctor. Like I, you know, I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wanted to be. And I always loved reading, but I didn't really identify as a writer. And so in high school, I decided I wanted to be a doctor. I entered university as a pre-med student. I was a biology major, decided pretty quickly that I did not want to be a doctor, but I really liked science. So I worked in a couple of neurobiology labs, and then I ended up getting my master's degree in public health, which is what took me to DC. And it was only when I moved to DC in my early 20s, uh and I was, you know, alone in this new city, I had no friends, that the idea for what became my debut novel came to me. Uh, it's a book called The Witchhaven, which is about a school for witches disguised as a tuberculosis sanitarium in 1911, New York. And I, you know, the idea struck me. And I kind of thought, like, how hard could it be? I've read thousands and thousands of books. I have a lot of free time on my hands all of a sudden. Like, I want to see if I can do this. And so I started it as a project for myself. And because I'm stubborn, I didn't let myself quit until I'd finished. And the answer to how hard could it be, it's very hard. It was incredibly difficult. It was much, much harder than I anticipated. But once I'd started, I got this bug and I didn't want to stop. And before that, all through college and high school, I had been writing fanfiction. I think I thought everybody was like secretly going home at night and writing tens of thousands of words of fanfic. Also not true. Um, but it took me a long time to admit to myself that I wanted to be a writer. I feel like it took a lot of bravery. I mean, making art publicly requires a lot of vulnerability, and I'm not good at being a vulnerable person, but I'm especially not good at being a vulnerable person in public. But I wrote, I wrote What Became the Witchhaven. I ended up in this fabulous mentorship program through a great stroke of luck. I signed with my agent. I got a book deal, and all of a sudden I was like 27 and I was living this life that was much bigger than I'd ever really let myself hope for. And it it took a long time to let myself want to be a writer. I felt like I needed permission from somebody, I think. I I relate to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:35

I wrote a lot. I wrote poetry, I wrote short stories, but I was like, no, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna get my PhD, which I'm doing. I'm a police officer, PhD person who was also a lawyer. Like that was my goal. I had some because those were jobs that were acceptable and they were prestigious and they they made me feel good about, but I was also interested in those topics. I liked legal.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

I liked science. I liked public health. It's not that like working in a hospital would have been the worst possible case scenario. But it was so much more you do this and you get this degree, and then you get this job, and then you get this other job, and it was so much clearer and it felt safer. People tell you, like, you know, you'll never make it as a writer. Nobody gets an agent, nobody gets a book deal, nobody makes money doing this. And I hope that I'm living proof that you can succeed. Like I'm I'm making a great living. I have a fabulous agent. I love working with my team. And I don't think that I'm some like preternatural talent who was predestined to do this. I think that I worked really hard in the same way that I worked hard at science, in the same way that I worked hard at public health. Um, and it takes luck and it takes good timing. And but I think that's true of any career. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

I think so too, right? And you do have to have a certain level of talent, which obviously you do, you know, to master the craft and you know, be able to write a book that is going to appeal to the audiences and you know be a well-written book. But no, like you, I actually entered university pre-med as well. And unlike you though, I found out I was really bad at science. Oh, I wasn't good at science. I I like it. And I'm like, I don't understand it. I would have been the worst doctor. And so, like you said, right, I had this panic moment where it's like, what am I gonna do? Because being an author is not what you go to college for. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was like, I had like a week where I just read map my whole life. I was like, gonna be a lawyer, done. Right. And here we are, right? We're having these conversations about different life choices. Um, like sloshes.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

And it will, like it like that's the nice thing about writing, is it's it's there. But so many of my friends, especially like all my my women friends who are writers, most of them have like very high-powered careers and very interesting degrees. And like, I do think it's this personality type of high achiever that eventually we all secretly admit to ourselves that we want to be novelists, and whether it happens at seven or twenty-seven or forty-seven. Um, but I know so many authors who are doctors and lawyers and PhDs. And uh, it is so funny that we all end up back doing the things we loved when we were 15.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

It is. And I'm so curious too. Like, what is your favorite part of being an author? I mean, some people love, you know, the actual writing process. I've heard everybody hates marketing. So for you, what is that favorite kind of this is my creative process and I love it?

SPEAKER_01 9:13

I love writing a first draft, which is not, I know some friends really love editing. Some friends really love like, you know, the fine-tuning part. I love the freedom of a first draft. To me, it always feels a little bit like falling in love when you start to feel like, oh my gosh, and then there's this scene and then this scene, and then oh my gosh, and then it's all coming together. And it's this like giddiness that that nothing else gives me. So I love that sense of discovery when I'm writing a new book and that feeling of like it doesn't have to be perfect yet. I find editing much more intimidating because that's when I have to make things cohesive. Um, I will say people have asked me, Rose Margan was the deal that allowed me to quit my day job, which is a day job that I loved. Like it was not like I was in prison somewhere. But people have asked me what's the best part of being a full-time author. And I will say not having to do corporate speak on my day-to-day. I don't have to circle back, I don't have to ping, I don't have to, you know, we don't have to disenergize. So I really that that is probably the best part of being a full-time author is no longer. I love what you said. That means I literally wrote, I'll circle back. I'll circle back. Oh, yeah. There was a lot of circling back in healthcare. So no longer having to write corporate speak emails. There's still a lot of emails, but it's like mostly to my agent, my editor. There's very little pinging. There's very little circling back.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

That sounds awful. I'm in my PhD and I hear from my advisor like once or twice a semester if I'm lucky, for better or worse. Yep. I'm thankful for that, honestly. I'm like, it's a little nerve-wracking, but I'd much rather not talk to you. Yeah. They're like you alive. Yeah. We just check in. How's it going? Good. Okay, bye. See you in another like few months.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Oh, I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous. The same conversations with clients six months later. So I'm like, I've been over this, but let's go through it again.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

So you had a long journey to accepting yourself as an author. You were like, hey, I want to be an author. And this was something that was in my heart, but now I'm doing it. So how was the path to publication? You were like, I'm doing this thing. Now how did you get to the next step?

SPEAKER_01 11:11

So I got really lucky at first. Um, I was accepted. I submitted the Witch Haven into a program called Pitch Wars, which no longer exists, but was a program in which agented or published authors or agency assistants, people that were already in the industry, would pick an unagented author to mentor. And so over the course of like three or four months, we would work with our mentors to edit our books. And at the end of that period, the books and the pitches went in front of a panel of agents and got to comment, you know, like, would love to see more. So we were still querying that I was sending a query package, but it made that our it meant that our books were getting read really, really quickly because it was post this big flashy showcase. Um and it was a really, you know, competitive program to get into. I was shocked that I got in. And it ended up being like one of the best things that ever happened to me. And I signed with my agent through that program. So that happened really quickly. Like I was never in the query trenches in a traditional way. And then my agent, who's still my agent, I signed with her when we were both 24 or 25. Uh, it was almost a decade ago. Uh, we're still together. She's like one of the great like pillars of my life. Um so we went to sell the book. And again, it sold pretty quickly. Within two weeks, we were at auction. I sold in this like great six-figure deal that kind of changed my life. And I had this feeling of like, I don't know, in like a video game when you like walk through a minefield and then nothing explodes, and you're like, oh my god, I did it. Am I the first author ever to avoid rejection? Did I just pull it off? And no, the answer is then like a big old mine exploded. So I wrote, I wrote The Witch Haven and its sequel to Witch Hunt, and they both did well. It was a New York Times bestseller. It was a Barnes and Noble book club pick. I got to go on a great tour. I met so many like wonderful readers who connected with my work, and it really was a dream scenario. And then we went to go sell my next project to my publisher and they didn't want it. And I was dropped by my publisher, which is a very common, normal, businessy thing, but it felt really, really personal. I had felt like, oh my God, but I was a straight A student. I was a pleasure to have in class. I did everything you wanted me to do. What else could you have done? I know. But I think it was so much less about me and more they didn't like the idea, which it was an idea that it is it was not the Rosebergan. It was another idea that is still like in a drawer. Um and they didn't want it. And that it really threw me furly, but really devastated me because I felt like I'd done everything, like I'd like avoided this rejection, but the rejection comes for you. Publishing is gonna thicken your skin regardless. Um, and so I was at home for the holidays and nursing my wounds. And then that's when the idea for the Rose Bargain came to me. So it is so funny in retrospect. Like everything really does work out the way it's supposed to. Um yeah, that was that was the right to the rose bargain.

SPEAKER_04 13:53

So they were like, we don't like this idea, so goodbye forever.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

And yeah, that's like I I'm very shocked by that. I mean, it's it's so funny. So I mean, not to get like two in the weeds of like publishing, like legality, but when you sign a contract, they usually have you have an option clause, which means that for 30 days your existing publisher gets to see your next book before anybody else does. And so we gave them the option in those 30 days and they didn't like it and they didn't want it. And so that option expired, and that meant that I no longer had to deal with them. And so we could have sent the Rose Bargain to them. We could have done, you know, XYZ. Like, you know, it's it's not that like they slammed the door on me and were like, we hate you forever, but because they did not want that idea, it meant that like my professional ties to them were now severed, which again is like very normal. It was not personal. I have no, there were like no sour grapes here. It's so hard to tell the story without being like, no, but it's fine. Like everybody's just doing their jobs, but it felt really devastating.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Well, you know, it's it's probably for the best, right? Because let's say you hadn't done that idea and you had Rose Bargain, they would have probably been like, Yeah, hell yeah, like give us sure. You think it's gotten the deal you got. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Like it really I do, I do like in retrospect, everything worked out the way it was supposed to.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

I'm just glad that you were here to tell us this because then I won't take it too personal if it really, it's not and then and then that editor, my my editor, my old editor, Simon and Schuster, then her next deal was powerless.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

So like it all I like it worked out for everybody. Like wow, we got a big flashy deal. I got a big flashy. Like, there truly no, no hard feelings anywhere in this story, other than like me back in 2022 being like, nobody wants me.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

That's me right now. My parent my my family's like, you even have a book.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Like, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

It does it's heart. Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

I mean, gosh, light bulb moments a lot when I talk to you guys, you're all you authors and what you go through is just insane. You guys have very tough skin because you're like, you know what? I mean, it hurt, you licked your wounds and then you got back on the horse, you delivered another banger, and now here you are.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Just it's wild. What gave you the confidence to be like, okay, I'm not done? Like, I had a banger, it was awesome. Now I had one that nobody wanted. What gave you the confidence to say I'm gonna keep writing this next idea?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

I don't know if it was confidence. I don't know if that's the right word for it. Um is it? I think it was I mean, maybe a little bit. I have a Scorpio moon, so like maybe a tiny bit. But I don't I don't want to make it seem like I'm like mad at my former. They were wonderful. They were wonderful to work with. It truly all worked out. No, I I think it was stubbornness. It was this streak, and it was the streak that I had when I first sat down to write The Witch Haven of like I have to prove to myself I can do this. And I had to prove to myself that I had more books in me. And I knew that rejection was part of publishing. And I knew that I was gonna have to get thicker skin if I wanted to keep going, and I wanted to keep going. And so I also tried to resolve to write something for myself. I really did have this feeling of like truly the only person who's ever gonna read this book, that I might as well write something that I think is really fun. And I think that that is where the magic of the Rosebargain came. To talk about everything working out, like I don't think I would have written something this like self-indulgent if it had been like great, here's your option book, okay. Like, let's keep it moving. Like, I really had to go back to the drawing board and think really seriously about what made me happy and what excited me in books, because books were making me really sad. I was really bummed out about writing at that point in my life. And so I made the conscious decision to write something as fun as I possibly could. I didn't want to deny myself anything. So that's why we have, you know, just one bed and two princes and a marriage competition and all these other girls and a dog and all these carriages and a ball gown description that lasts like half a page. Like I just was any single thing that made me smile, I was like, it's gonna go in. We're we'll put we're putting it in.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

That's incredible. The journey pushed you. You were like, I am transformed by this. It pushed me creatively, and it gave me the opportunity to write for myself again. Instead of kind of getting caught up in like a machine of like producing, you were like, no, I'm gonna create something that brings me joy and I'm gonna put it out there.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

For sure. The the book that I pitched that failed, I spent a lot of time thinking about what the market wanted from me and what my readers would want from me and what made sense as a follow-up. But I didn't think a lot about what made me happy.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

Well, that's good to know because I I hesitate with my book for that reason. Like, is my book commercial? Can I sell a book? Is it marketable? And then being a debut, I have to think about those things.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

And that is real. I don't want to be like, and you don't have to think about that at all. Because of course, of course you do. But I also do think that people can tell when you're having fun.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

Yeah. When you're authentic to your story, your readers will find you.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

Well, I'm I've learned a lot. We can call it next week.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

This is really just to indulge Sarah's questions.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

I will, I will. If you need anybody to tell you, like you have to keep going, I am I am that person.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

I know. But do you know what's so funny? Me and Bethany are doing this, and everyone keeps telling us, be resilient, keep going. And we still haven't finished.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

But you will. Like, you will. There's not a, you know, it's publishing doesn't disappear next month. Like, that is kind of the nice thing, is it's still there. And I will, like, I do believe when you look back, you'll be like, oh, but that timing was perfect. Um, like The Witch Haven, it came out in this year of all of these other witch books. And so it was so fun that like there weren't a ton of witch books like three or four years before when I was writing the book, but the year it came out, it was uh, I mean, it was Rachel Griffin's debut, it was Alexis Henderson's debut, it was Shannon Smart's debut, it was all of these debut witch novels. And so it was so fun because we were part of this like cultural moment together and we all got to support each other. And then that that timing, like you can't predict until it happens, and then you feel like, oh, I'm in the right place at the right time right now.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Yes. That's excellent. I want all of the juju you have just hand it over. So we talked about what takes courage and your journey. I mean, your resiliency is just impeccable. You know, it's very motivating sitting here talking to you. I want to get off and go right. Sarah was like, I'm done. We're done, Sasha. But with that being said, if you were to be able to tell everyone else, aspiring authors, this the you that was young that needed this advice, what advice would you give us?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

I mean, it's I don't want to like quote somebody else when I'm giving advice, but the advice that I think kept me going, I I guess there's two pieces of advice that kept me going that were playing in my head when I was a writer working on my first manuscript in like my tiny apartment in DC, is Maggie Steve Fodder. I went to an event and I think somebody asked a similar question, and she said the road to success is littered with very talented people who could not handle rejection. And I didn't want to be one of them. Like I didn't want my fear of rejection to keep me from success. Um, you know, if it was my lack of talent. If it was my like if I was writing bad books, great, but I didn't want like reject me for that reason. Don't I didn't want to reject me before anybody else did. Um and then Lee Bardugo, another event that I went to, I think it was politics and prose in DC. Um I love that score. It's so great. She was talking about writing the Grisha trilogy, uh, which was this like obviously massive hit at the TV show. She's Lee Bardugo. But she said she's like, every massive bestseller was once a manuscript on somebody's computer that nobody cared about. And it gave me so much hope that, you know, I don't need to be Lee Bardugo, but that this manuscript I was working in on in my tiny apartment, somebody might care about one day. And just because nobody cared in that moment didn't mean that nobody would care forever.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

Well, I love that. I know. Those are some serious, awesome pieces of advice.

unknown 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

So I they're absolutely stolen. None of none of them were for me, but they helped me. So I hope they help you guys and whoever's listening.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Oh, I love that. I love that. And I know that we've been teasing our audience about your books. So for anyone again, if you haven't read The Rose Bargain, this is the time that you're gonna wanna stop. Go read that book, come back, because we're gonna dive into Rose Bargain and Thorn Queen now. So, Sasha, for people who might be just discovering Rosebargain. Can you tell us what the series is about?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yes, the Rosebargain is a YA romanticy duology. The Thorn Queen will wrap up the story, and it takes place in an alternate history, 1840s England, where the queen is a fairy who tricked her way onto the throne during the War of the Roses. So she has now been ruling England as a despot for 400 years. And every citizen of England gets the opportunity to make one fairy bargain with her. The high society debutantes are expected to make bargains that will help win them husbands. So a prettier face in exchange for a toe, or a talent for the harpsichord in exchange for your happiest childhood memory. Our main character, Ivy Benton, has been recently disgraced by her sister's scandal, and her marriage prospects are looking rather bleak. The Queen shocks the taunt when she announces that this is the season her son, the fairy prince, will take a wife. In order to be considered, you must enter a vicious competition for his hand. Ivy, thinking that she has no other options, enters this competition, but is quickly approached by the prince's humid stepbrother, who has a bargain of his own. He will help make her his brother's dream girl if she helps him take down the queen. So it's been called like Bridgerton meets the selection meets the cruel prince.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Sounds right.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

I'm like, yep, all my things.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Um amazing. I just love that there's political intrigue, there's romance, there's all the things. Like you said, all the things.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Everything that I personally love. I threw into this book.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

So can you tell us a little bit more about your key players? I'm so interested to know about the stepbrother and the prince and everyone that's involved and what kind of like their stakes are for them.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah, so we have Ivy Benton, who is our main character. She is the younger sister of the Benton family. Her older sister, Lydia, was perfect. Uh and Ivy always expected that Lydia would go make a good match and that Ivy could just like live as the Spencer Aunt for hour, that Ivy was never gonna really have to enter society. Ivy was never have to get married, she's going to be perfectly happy, like, you know, keeping bees in some estate off in like Hampstead.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

She she had no like our LOEs and is.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

She's yes. She had no real interest in being part of society, uh, nor did she feel like she fit into society. But Lydia the year before makes a bad bargain. Um, and she shames the family. She makes a bargain that she can't remember and then she goes missing, which is the scandal of the century. And so Ivy is we enter the book and she's really devastated. The opening scene of the book is Ivy going out to search for Lydia in the middle of the night. And so she feels so betrayed by her sister, and she feels so betrayed by this society in which she has very few choices. And so when she enters the competition for Prince Bram's hand, it's a real act of desperation. The only thing she wants is to get her family back into society's good graces. She's not looking to be queen, she's not looking to marry a prince. She has very little interest in love in general. She feels it's not something that is destined for her while out searching for her sister in the first chapter of the Rosebargain. She's run over by a carriage containing Prince Prince Emmett, who is Prince Bram's human stepbrother. His father is married to the Fairy Queen, and Emmett is a bit of a radical. He wants to take down the Fairy Queen. His bargain, his parents' bargains, ruined Emmett's life. And so Emmett, Emmett feels quite w wronged by her, and he loves his brother Bram. He thinks that Bram is gonna make a really good king. And so his motivations are to get more off the throne and to get his brother Bram onto the throne, and he needs Ivy's help to do that. And then as he starts to fall for Ivy, it's in direct contradiction to his plans. He has to choose between his heart and the fate of his country. Um, and then we have sweet golden retriever Bram, who just wants the best for everybody. He feels quite guilty that these girls have been put in this competition for his hand. It's not something that he wanted. And then we have Queen Moore, who I like to call the ultimate boy mom. She is our terrifying fairy queen. I find immortality like completely horrifying. I spent a lot of time thinking about what it would do to your sense of altruism and empathy. And I think above all things, she is really, really bored. And that's why she does these bargains. That's why she's doing this competition, is she's just desperately searching for some kind of entertainment in her eternal life.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

She needs a lady whistle down.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

She really does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

I think these humans all feel like very fleeting to her. Oh my gosh. So the thing that scares me about immortality is like I would never have enough money. I would have to work all of the time.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Oh, compound interest, baby. You're you're fine. I think after like 50 years, you're you're vibing. Like I I don't think I don't think it's I actually I actually think that's a complete non-issue.

SPEAKER_04 26:19

Yeah. I was just like, you can just put it in stock.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Like immortal Bethany invested in Apple in like 1982, and like you're just right in that.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

Oh my gosh. I think about I have the opposite take from immortality, but that's because I think I'm better than I am. But I think I would also get bored eventually. But I'm like, look at all these books. I gotta read, I can read all the books now.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Oh, it's it is my nightmare, living forever. I'm like, okay, so one day like the world explodes and you're just there, like the sun envelops the earth, and you're like, I'm like, it has to end at some point for reeks, we are all the way to the end of the time.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

Yeah, no, like oh my god. The worst thing, the worst thing I'd be scared of is being like a human experiment. Like somebody caught on and realized I was immortal, and then I'm trapped forever in like some government basement. That would suck.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Yeah. No, it's any any scenario I hate. Like, you know, I'd I'd like to live like maybe 200 years. I'd love to live a little bit longer.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Any more than that, shake me out. I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Oh my God. I'm so curious, right? Because this setting is very fascinating to me. And I think obviously it is very interesting to a lot of people right now, especially our Bridgerton lovers out there. So, how did that part of the book come to you in terms of, you know, developing the setting and, you know, deciding where this was all going to take place?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah. So I mean, in the spirit of writing something that I loved just for me, um, I really kind of wanted to write my take on a historical romance novel because it's the only thing I was reading at the time. Um, it was kind of post-pandemic. And during the pandemic, I discovered romance for the first time. And so I was reading just hundreds of books by Tessa Dare and Beverly Jenkins and Julia Quinn and Lisa Claypass and all of these like fabulous, incredibly smart women. Um, and it just like worked their way into my bones. And so when I sat down to write something else, this is all that came out carriages and reputations and bull gowns and the the taunt and the season and the trappings of all these books I've been reading. And so I wanted to take that setting that I loved so much from these historical romance novels and try to put my spin on it as a YA fantasy novelist.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

I love it so much because I like historical fiction. So this is historical fantasy, and I'm like, heck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

If you have not yet dived into historical romance, text me after. I have a million recommendations of places to start.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yes. Oh my gosh, I've been looking for more.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

So I'm not kidding you. I don't know if this counts, but it counts in my mind. It's by any other name by Jody Pickle. And I that book is all my heart and soul. And I I hate to say this, but I could care less about the girl in modern times. I was obsessed with the her her ancestor and her writing and the devastation and the love and the not love, and it was just everything. I I know how you feel about this particular period in time.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Historical romance is waiting for you. It is, you are gonna, there's a whole world awaiting. You're gonna love it.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

My gosh, it's gonna be my next obsession. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

And it's fun because there's so many. Um, I mean, like like Bridgerton, that's that's that's very common trope in romance novels that you follow a family or you follow a group of friends. And so it's so fun because you start with one person and you love them and you see these peripheral characters, and then you get to expand into these like great worlds and watch all of these people fall in love. It's it's the best.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

You know, like um, no joke, when you were saying Lydia, I was thinking about Pride and Prejudice because my mom and dad sat down and watched the entire old series. So that thing, we were be little and watching it, like, oh, the audacity. And we're like, and so we watched all of them. We watched the new ones, we watched the old ones, they're classic.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

So when you were like Lydia, I was just like, this this sounds the Lydia, Lydia Benton Lydia Bennett thing is intentional. Lydia, Lydia is named after Lydia Bennett, and it is kind of the first clue as to as to where she was. Yeah, I was just like, this sounds a lot like Pride and Prejudice. That was intentional.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Their sleeping skills are odd. Like, here's here's our uh PhD and detected there.

SPEAKER_04 30:20

See, that's why I told you I can't read thrillers. That just I can't read thrillers. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

So, Sasha, I'm so curious. So, so we have we have a fantastic rep team who have also read this book and they had all of these questions for us. So I promised them I would at least ask a couple of your questions too. But they want to know, you know, talk to us about the love triangle. Did you always envision a love triangle as a major plot point here? And what have you heard from readers?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

I I love a love triangle. I especially love a love triangle in YA. I know that it is kind of controversial, which is so funny to me because I, it's like one of my favorite tropes that whenever anybody doesn't like it, I'm like, but it's it's so delicious. Like, you don't want candy? You don't like ice cream? Like, I love a love triangle. But the Rosebergen is not a traditional love triangle and that she is not equally torn between both brothers. She she feels much more strongly for Emmett from the beginning, but she, you know, through this competition, through her deal with Emmett, she kind of has to marry Bram in order to save England. So she wants to love Bram and she wants to care for Bram. And so that's where the push and pull comes from. Uh, I knew with this c with the the concept of the marriage competition that she was gonna fall in love with the brother. That came pretty early in in the planning process, Emmett and Bram's dynamic. But it was also important to me that Emmett and Bram love each other. They are very close as brothers, and Emmett feels a lot of guilt for falling for this girl who should be his brother's wife. He he's just as torn as Ivy. It's almost gonna be like summer I turn pretty vibes, too. Yeah. I love the agony.

SPEAKER_04 31:49

Like I want people to hurt in a good way. Yes. I love that because I mean, I'm uh I love white like triangles as much as the next person, but I also like why choose. I didn't know that was a thing until I got to Oxtagram. I was like, you mean they can have it all? No, it's like that's amazing. But I love this. You knew in your heart who she wanted. And it's one of those things between like duty and love. Like you say, like, does she are both both of them? Do they follow their duty or do they follow their hearts? And what will that be?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

And what what keeps me turning the page as a reader is like, how are they possibly gonna end up together? Like this, like how was how is this gonna work out? Um, I wanted people to feel that anxiety.

SPEAKER_04 32:33

I know it feels like the way you're explaining it, I'm like, oh, well, this is a no-brainer choice, but what does that mean? Like, what are the consequences?

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Exactly. So for people who don't like love triangles, I would say I think the Rosebargain is still a safe book for you. I've heard from a lot of people that don't like love triangles that the Rosebargain still works for them because it is not a back and forth. It is not a like, but I want to be with both of them. It that is not her feeling, but yeah, the the circumstances surrounding her, she feels quite trapped by.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

That makes love triangles so much more interesting to me, right? Because I am one of the like more skeptical people of love triangles. I'm like, you can't love two people equally. Like, pick one, move on. I want to I am not a believer in the why choose. Yeah. So for me, like this did absolutely work because you can clearly see who she's preferring here. But the the politics around it is so intriguing. I think you captured that perfectly, Sasha. It's like, it's not who is she gonna choose from a love perspective? It's like who is she gonna choose from this responsibility duty perspective and saving the world?

SPEAKER_01 33:32

And she and Emmett are both on the same side there too. Like there's no conflict with them. Their conflict is both of the duties that they feel to Bram. That was the feeling I wanted to invoke. I wanted people to feel real pity for him. That that is what I wanted people to feel.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

And the fact that he's really not the bad guy. Like he's not a bad guy. He's a good person trying to do what is right in all of this, and he's just as stuck as everybody else. And and you do.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Yeah, he is also a victim of his mother's machinations. Like he he doesn't want these girls to be going through this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Yeah. And in true, you know, in true spirit, right? Because we are super spoilery here. For our listeners who are about to pick up the Thorn Queen, right? Maybe they've read the Rose Bargain, you know, last year, spent a little bit of time. Can you remind us where our characters left off and kind of what we're expected to see going into the sequel?

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Okay, well, dun dun, Bram not a good guy. That is the twist at the end of the book. No, my my precious Bram. I mean, again, I still I still like love him and find him very interesting because of that. But where where we have ended up is Ivy, you know, near near the end of the book, she's gone through this competition. She enters the queen's throne room. The queen says, You've lost the competition. I am so sorry. But in order to get this queen off the throne, they think in order to break the queen's bargain that made her queen, Ivy and Bram have to get married. They think because of like magical wording, Ivy is now the May Queen. If she marries Bram, it will break the Queen's bargain. The only way to get the Queen off the throne is to get Ivy to marry Bram. So Ivy goes to Emmett and she's like, I have to convince Bram to elope with me. I'm so sorry. And they like have a moment together and it's agonizing and devastating. And Emmett's like, okay, fine, go. And so she goes to Bram's room and she's like, elope with me. I'm in love with you. And he's like, Oh, okay, great. Yeah. Sounds sounds dope. I'll meet you at your house. And so she runs to her house to pack her bags. She's pulling all of her clothes out of her wardrobe. And all of these pictures of Bram like rain down on her. They've been shoved in the back of her wardrobe. And she's like, What the hell is this? And it's pictures that her sister Lydia has drawn of Bram on a horse, of Bram's eyes, of Bram's hands, of Bram. It's just these studies of Bram. There's like dozens and dozens of them. And Lydia walks in and Ivy's like holding these stacks and stacks of drawings, and she's like, What is this? And Lydia's like, I don't know. I keep dreaming about him. And Ivy's like, okay. And then at that moment, two palace guards show up. They drag Ivy away. And she's like, no, tell him it. Nah. And she thinks that the queen has found out about her plans to elope for Bram. Instead, she's dragged to the Queen's throne room. And the queen goes, Congrats, you've won. Uh, that was a test. You passed. Congratulations. You will now be the new princess. And Ivy's like, okay. The queen says, in order. Sorry, I'm like telling you the whole last third of the book. I'll speed it out.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Um, she's like, Sarah, Sarah's enthralled here. She has. I'm right. I'm eating up.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

But I'm not leaving this bargain thing hanging. You have to make a bargain. Ivy makes a bargain to forget Emmett because she thinks that she will never be able to walk down the aisle to Bram if she still knows how much she loves Emmett. She gets married to Bram. Their predictions were correct. It breaks the queen's bargain. She is no longer Queen of England. But instead, Bram laughs like an evil villain. He says, seize her. Well, I think he quite literally says, seize her. Again, this book was pure self-indulgence. The queen is wrapped up with chains. Ivy, all of her memories of Emmett come flooding back. And then Bram grabs Lydia, and we get a chapter from Lydia's POV where it is revealed that when she went missing, she was in the fairy world with Bram and that she has been in love with Bram this whole time. That they got married in the fairy world, that it did not break the Queen's Burgess. And he was like, shit, I gotta go marry your sister. Bram is now married to both Benton girls. Emmett is missing. The Queen is missing. Emmett's father is dead. Ivy is Queen of England. Curtains. And that's what you missed on the Rose Burke.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Tune in next week for the final rose next week.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

We need to do a deep dive of this.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

Don't we? Yes. I am I am like, girl, you are successful. No, I mean you successfully did the thing where we're all like, like, you know that moment.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

I love a third act twist.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Yes. Oh my gosh. I've been so mad about that third act twist for several months since I've read this. I'm not gonna lie. Wasn't it fun?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

When he grabs Lydia and goes, darling, I missed you. And you're like, Lydia!

SPEAKER_02 37:52

Like that's all you're doing. You're totally in line with Lydia Bennett. I know. I just I hate it.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

She was Sheila.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

Oh my gosh. Gosh. Okay, well, I'm reading. Like, I'm gonna consume this in the next few hours.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Yes. Oh my gosh. You can definitely see why everyone is so excited for this sequel because we have to know what happens next. I mean, just gonna say, two wives. That guy's gonna have it coming. Two wives, both married to both Benton girls.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

I'm sorry for the mom now.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

She's fine.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Fine.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Um my gosh. I wish. I need a second. I'm gonna take a minute.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

Yeah, I need a second. That was wild. Well, I mean, I okay, well, I have to ask this question. Which scene would you love to see adapted to the screen? Because like, this is a movie. This is a movie. That's how when you were talking, I was like, I'm hallucinating a movie.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

You know what? The wedding scene feels very cinematic to me. But like she's walking down the aisle. Emmett is standing right there. Emmett is agonized because he remembers. Ivy doesn't remember. She marries Bram. There's like a crack of lightning across the sky. I don't know if there literally is. It's been a long time since I wrote this. Um it's chaos. He grabs Lydia. There's like a flashback. I think that would be really fun to see on screen because that very much played out like a movie in my head.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

You that's a masterpiece. That is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

That's kind of there's gonna be talking about this book everywhere now.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

It's gonna be Yes, yes, I am. Absolutely. I'm gonna tell my mom, because my mom and I we're all very historical fiction. We love it, you know. Um so hell yeah, we're gonna thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

So, Sasha, this this has been incredible. Um, these these two books. I know the Thorn Queen is coming out in just a couple of weeks, but what can you tease us about what you're looking to do next?

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Oh, after the Thorn Queen? Yeah. So I haven't, it hasn't been announced yet. So I can't share a ton of details, but I do have a 2027 book. And it will be, it's with my existing team at HarperCollins, who I love so much. It'll be another YA historical fantasy. And I literally don't think I can say anything more. But um hopefully the like official announcement will be coming soon. I'll post everything on my Instagram when I can finally say it. But I am deep into the second draft on that book. So I'm I'm cranking away and I'm having a lot of fun. It is my I think I've said this on Instagram. It is my my childhood friends to arranged marriage book. So Oh my gosh. I do I keep making I keep making teens get married in YS. It's totally accepted, so you know.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

I have a question. Is there a time skip or are we starting right off the bat after the wedding?

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Not a long time skip. It starts four months later. Um so Ivy has now been Queen of England for four months. The wedding is in June, and we open the book in October. Oh fall. A little fall. Yeah, a little, it's a little autumnal. But yeah, not a huge time skip.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Oh, okay. And one of our one of our reps wants to know too. If you could make your own bargain, like the characters in your books, what would you have bargained for?

SPEAKER_01 41:02

I will ask you guys the same thing. So you can think while I'm while I'm talking. I would not make a bargain. I find the queen absolutely terrifying. And I don't think I have like great judgment. I would like accidentally bargain for something too big or something that would like completely ruin my life. But if I had to, my answer is I think I have a low-level curse on me currently that my bag always comes out dead last at airport security. Um I would make a bargain that my that my bag would always come out first, and I would give up a pinky toe nail. Not pole pinky toe, but I'd give up a nail. Um only only if forced.

unknown 41:34

Only if forced.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

What about you guys? Oh my gosh. Not luggage, luggage is a good one.

SPEAKER_04 41:40

I love that because your bag's gonna come out first, but you're never gonna get out of the plane in time.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

But then it's there, it's circling. I snag it.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

I love that. Or somebody else snags it because all the bags look alike at the bag.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

I have so many like little, I have a little scarf on mine. I have a little, because somebody did do that to me once. It was um, yeah, some guy grabbed my bag. Uh and he came back like an hour later, but oh, I was so bad.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

Oh my god. This is tough because I just have no good judgment. Let's see. Bethany, you go first. I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Okay, okay. I would want pants that always fit. Okay, that's so valid. That's a good pair.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

I would I would bargain a lot for a good pair of jeans.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Yes. Like, so it can just, it can fit no matter if I gain weight or if I lose weight. Like it just, it just needs to fit.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

Sister hit off the traveling pants, but with your socks. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

I mean, and take take whatever you want for, like. Yeah. No, that's that is extremely valid. I just I just had surgery and it was abdominal surgery, so like I'm so bloated that I can't. Oh gosh, yeah. No, that's legitimate. Like a comfortable waistband.

SPEAKER_04 42:48

I know. That's sort of but also amazing. That's the best one. I okay. I have insomnia, so I would like my it at least to be productive while I'm awake. That would be nice. Instead of just staring at the wall.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

That's a good one, too. That is a good one.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

Like, let me do something. I write a whole book in my sleep. Like, let me do that. Yeah.

unknown 43:12

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Oh, and Sasha, one more little fun rapid fire one. So, in our true bachelor style here, which book boyfriend would you give your final rose to?

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Ooh. Again, now, like every book I've ever read has exited my brain.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Right? I'm like, who's a guy? Like, what?

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Yeah. I am deep into the Emma M. Lyon books right now. If you guys have not read those, they're very fun. Um, there's hold in the form of a diary of a girl in like 1800s England. And they're like just very charming and lovely, and I've been doing the audiobooks. Um, and so right now I'm very into the Duke of Islington and the Emma M. Lyon books. If there's any other Emma M. Lyon heads out there, um, the Duke, the Duke would get my final rose.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

I love it. Oh my gosh, Sasha, we had so much fun with you. We would, we could keep talking to you for hours, but I promise we'll we'll let you go and actually, you know, get back to your life and writing. The incredible next book that we all want to see in 2027. So thank you. Thank you guys so much. I had so much fun. We loved it. And to all of our listeners out there, thank you so much for tuning in. You can check out Sasha's books wherever you love to buy books. They are found everywhere. The Thorn Queen comes out very, very soon. So make sure you catch up on the Rose Bargain before then.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Thanks so much, everyone. Thank you. That's it for this chapter of the Mythic Mike Podcast. But the adventure doesn't end here. Subscribe, leave a review, and follow us on social media at Mythic Mike Pod for updates, giveaways, and all the bookish and writing fun. Want more? Join our newsletter at mythicmike.com for bonus tips, author insights, and behind the scenes magic. Until next time, stay mythical.