S.2 Ep. 60: Forgotten Gods, Broken Kingdoms, and Ancient Magic: Laura A. Blake on The Forgotten Dawn

🎙️ Welcome back to The Mythic Mic Podcast, where gods fall, kingdoms fracture, and fantasy stories leave emotional wreckage in the very best way.

This week, hosts Bethany Amanda and Sarah Santillan sit down with fantasy author Laura A. Blake, author of The Shattered Sky Saga and The Forgotten Dawn, for an immersive, hilarious, and deeply honest conversation about epic fantasy, romantasy, publishing, heartbreak, and the stories that refuse to leave us alone.

If you love sprawling fantasy worlds, emotionally grounded characters, glacial slow burns, devastating endings, and lore so layered it feels ancient, this episode is absolutely for you.

Laura shares her unconventional journey to becoming an author—from studying religion and classical history, teaching at the university level, and navigating traumatic brain injuries and infertility, to ultimately finding her voice through fantasy romance. What began as fragments of a story inspired by firelight and drumming slowly evolved into The Forgotten Dawn, an epic romantasy that blends myth, mystery, emotional depth, and unforgettable characters.

We dive deep into the changing publishing landscape and the rise of indie fantasy authors, including why Laura chose independent publishing over traditional publishing, the realities of marketing as an author, and why indie fantasy is redefining the industry in real time.

But at the heart of this conversation is Laura’s storytelling itself: immersive worlds filled with forgotten gods, layered mythology, quiet heroines, emotional realism, and characters readers become fiercely attached to—sometimes at their own peril.

⚡ What happens when fantasy romance becomes as emotionally grounded as it is epic?
🔥 Why are readers craving quieter, more vulnerable heroines?
🩸 And how do you write characters readers love enough to mourn?

This episode is a must-listen for epic fantasy lovers, romantasy readers, aspiring authors, and anyone fascinated by the rapidly evolving world of indie publishing.

🔥 IN THIS EPISODE, WE TALK ABOUT:

✨ Laura’s winding journey from academia and teaching to becoming a full-time fantasy author.
✨ How traumatic brain injuries and life challenges reshaped her creative path.
✨ The moment romantasy “clicked” after reading Fourth Wing and Sarah J. Maas.
✨ Writing The Forgotten Dawn in an explosive creative sprint.
✨ Why immersive worldbuilding and slow-burn storytelling matter so much to her.
✨ Building fantasy worlds layered with forgotten lore, myth, and mystery.
✨ Creating quieter, more anxious heroines instead of invincible warriors.
✨ Writing emotionally grounded characters readers deeply connect with.
✨ Why side characters deserve rich arcs and meaningful relationships too.
✨ Multi-POV storytelling and expanding the scope of The Shattered Sky Saga.
✨ Breadcrumbs, hidden clues, and long-term planning across a four-book saga.
✨ The rise of indie fantasy publishing and how it’s reshaping the industry.
✨ The realities of querying, traditional publishing timelines, and indie marketing.
✨ Why authors should start marketing their books long before release day.
✨ Slow burn romance, fated mates, and Laura’s favorite fantasy tropes.
✨ Cliffhangers, emotional damage, and why no character is ever truly safe.

CONNECT WITH US

🎙️ The Mythic Mic Podcast – @MythicMic
👤 Bethany Amanda – @BethanyinFantasyland
👤 Sara Santillan – @the_magical_quill
📚 Laura Blake – @LauraBlakeAuthor

✨ If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review. It helps more fantasy readers and aspiring authors find their way to The Mythic Mic.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Mythic Mike Podcast, where myths, magic, and legendary stories come to life. Join your hosts, Bethany Amanda and Sarah Santillon, passionate authors, book collectors, and lovers of all things fantasy and romanticy as they dive into epic worlds, enchanting tropes, and the books that leave us breathless. The Mythic Mic is your getaway to the magic of fantasy fiction. So grab your favorite bookish beverage, settle it, and let's step into the extraordinary. Now, here are your hosts.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Mythic Mike Podcast. I'm Sarah, and today we have the amazing Laura A. Blake, the author of the Shattered Skies saga, a higher romantic saga that immerses you in the world, has extraordinary characters, and incredible stakes. Hi, Laura. What a beautiful intro. Thank you. And today I'm joined with my amazing co-host, Bethany. Hi, Bethany. Hi, Sarah. Hey, Laura. I cannot wait for this discussion. My brain takes apart when someone gives me a compliment. I'm like, eh, I don't know how to respond to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

I am that person, so I completely get it. I generally really hate attention being on me. And my friends and family find it absolutely hilarious. Like my wedding photos have me with my hands in pockets because I'm very uncomfortable. That is generally my MO. So I completely understand.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Love that your wedding dress had pockets. Amazing. Yeah, so sort of.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

We I my husband's American, I'm Canadian. And our legal wedding, which is the only wedding I really wanted, I didn't want an actual like get-together wedding because again, attention that I didn't want. And uh I got a red dress with pockets for our legal wedding. And all of our wedding photos have me with hands very deep in my pockets. And my posture is so rigid. I feel like my shoulders are up at least four inches higher than they normally are in all of our photos. So, but however, I will say it was kind of like a practice run for our actual wedding. And I look semi more relaxed and human-like in those photos. So it's a win.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

That's pretty amazing. So, guys, before we jump into uh the Shattered Skies saga, let's learn more about you and your awkwardness. Great. Let's find the spotlight right on us. Listeners meeting you for the first time. How would you describe yourself as a storyteller?

SPEAKER_04 2:37

I'd say I'd probably try to be immersive. I think that that would be the thing that I would go for the most. My books, the ones that are out right now, anyway, are epic fantasy romance. And I grew up as an epic fantasy reader. I really move slow. Like I like a slow build. I know that's kind of opposite of industry norms and standards right now, where things kind of jump off with a bang immediately. I like to try to really live in a world. So that's kind of my hope when someone reads my books is that they feel like they know the place and they know the people that are there.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I feel the same way. You know, it's interesting because you know, Sarah and I are both aspiring authors. And a lot of the advice that I've gotten, you know, through courses I've taken and, you know, book coaches that I've worked with is you really have to establish the world before that inciting incident happens. And I try to do that, and I like books that do that. And then yet, as you were mentioning, right, in this industry, I see a lot where somebody's kidnapped.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

It's hard to say because the publishing industry right now is in such a state of flux with Trad and how indie has really come in and made a name for itself. Long are the days of indie publishers being people that ordered 250 copies of their books that sat in their garage and went to conventions hoping to sell it. That is no longer the case. And I feel like a lot of the industry standards, specifically for romanticy, are dictated by indie books. If we look at all of the major deals that are happening right now, the bulk of them have started as indie books that have gone on to be very successful and therefore have been picked up by Trad. And one of the things that I've really loved about that, and was one of the reasons that I wanted to be an indie author from the get-go rather than pursuing querying was books within the Trad sphere were limiting word counts from being around 90 to 120,000 words. And I was like, epic fantasy doesn't work in that way. Like a lot of books can and they do quite well, but specifically epic fantasy doesn't. And I was like, Well, I'm writing an epic fantasy with romance, so I don't see myself being fit into that neat little box. And I remember when I read The Kindred Kurds saga by Penn Cole, I was like, this never would have been greenlit off the bat because it's it's long. And I said, which I love because I love a long story. So for me, it's great. But yeah, it's been interesting kind of just watching how things are ebbing and flowing in publishing and what is kind of an industry standard in both spheres and how they're starting to overlap. And yeah, you kind of have to figure out what works for you with your with your story and how you're gonna tell it.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting, right? Because when I, you know, I've been writing my book for 12 years, so you know, one day it will it will get out there. It's exciting. Yeah, but I've always, you know, because I I started back in like 2011, right? Always thought that trad meant you were the successful route. Sure. And the more that I am in the book industry, right, and the more that I interact with authors, I'm almost to the point where I kind of want to be an indie author because of the not only the full control that you have over it, right? But because I've seen a lot of better deals with Trad publishers when you start as indie than if you just yeah, it's it's definitely there's advantages to both for sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Um, I can only speak to the advantages being a full-time indie author as opposed to a traditional author, but I know that a lot of hybrid authors talk about the fact that there's certain things that they really don't like in the traditional sphere. The one thing being that they don't have access to data as it's happening. Whereas I love having that readily available. I check KDP multiple times a day to see if a post is working, to see if that's a marketing strategy strategy that I should continue to emulate and re reproduce. Um and I don't know if I would like not having that. And a big thing for me, it was honestly the deciding factor for me, other than the word count, is I really wanted control of my cover because I feel like covers can really sell a book. And I was looking at a lot of the covers that were coming up for trad books in my space, and I was like, this is not the vibe, guys. Like, this is not it. Not to say that those covers are bad because they're not, but they're just they didn't fit my book and what I wanted to have on display. So that for me was a big thing. And yeah, it's a lot of work, but what I'm learning from a lot of Trad authors now, too, is they're having to do similar amounts of work and they're getting less information tangible and readily available to them in the same way that indie authors are. Wow. That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

That's really interesting. Then that's not something I realized that you don't have access to as a traditionally published author, you don't have access to what's working and what's not, and you're just kind of putting stuff out there and hoping for yeah. And then when you're blindsided by like the publisher saying, Hey, you didn't do as well, you're like, Well, what could I have done personally if I'm not given, you know, the information to do that's frustrating.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so I can speak kind of on the on the trad side. I have a nonfiction book that was traditionally published, and I get those figures maybe once a quarter.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

Yep. And that's honestly more frequent than a lot of people I know who get it twice a year. So yeah, it's it's interesting. Like I was speaking to LJ Andrews about it, and she was telling me that she gets numbers pretty much twice a year. And it's so weird because when you've gone from having KU and KDP, where you can go in and you can see live what's happening to not having that data readily available, it's been quite a transition. So it's been interesting too watching a lot of formerly indie authors that have gone hybrid maintain ownership of their digital rights while letting go of their print rights. So it's because a lot of them are wanting to maintain seeing those numbers. And for a lot of authors too, the bulk of their earning comes from digital and KU. So it's been really fascinating to watch, and it's a really transitional time, kind of like I said, in the industry. So yeah, it'll be it. I'm curious to see where things go over the next few years.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Um fascinating because I had seen a lot of India to Trad authors keeping those digital rights before. And I and I never understood what was the distinguishing factor, right? Why keep those when you're selling the others? That's interesting. That's unpacking the industry here.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

And I'm so curious, Laura, um, because your journey to writing, I've heard, wasn't really linear, right? It wasn't just one day I woke up and now I'm gonna be an author for the rest of my life. Like you studied religion and classical history and taught and had a business. How did those experiences shape the stories that you tell today? And how did you get to story writing then? So I I've always really loved books and stories.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

I grew up with a mom who is a ferocious reader, ferocious, voracious reader. There it is. Like I write for a living and I can't speak a lot of the time. So bear with me. But she was constantly taking us to the library. It was always books, books, books, books, books, which I loved. And I gravitated towards fantasy generally from a young age and just found that to be such an immersive thing where I wanted to live in the worlds that I was reading about. And I got a typewriter at a garage sale when I was seven or eight and thought I'm gonna write a heist novel. Of course, the typewriter, because it was being sold at a garage sale, was broken. It was not very good. So I think like a couple of the letters didn't work properly and things like that. So it was not a completed manuscript by any means. But I really at that point kind of shifted into I was a kid that kept a journal and was very much in my feelings. I grew up in the 90s, so it was a lot of like emo music and that type of thing, and really getting to know myself and putting that all on the page. And I I'm from Montreal, Canada, originally. And we have a system in place there that you graduate high school in the 11th grade, and then you have two years of an interim college, and then you go on to do your bachelor's. And those two years of the interim college serve as the 12th grade of high school in the first year of your bachelor's. And within those two years, you can kind of start doing specialized classes to get prerequisites if you're gonna do commerce, if you wanna do, you know, business, if you want to do pre-med or get like science stuff out of the way for those of us that were not numbers inclined at all. We all kind of shifted into the arts and humanities really fast. But I took a creative writing class in that two-year college. And my teacher, who had never spoken to me, gave us the option of our final project was you can write anything. It can be a short story, the beginning of a play, a novel, a sitcom, screenplay, whatever you want. And I chose to write a screenplay because I thought this is so far afield from anything that I've written in terms of essays and my my, you know, seven-year-old attempt at writing a novel. And she accused me of plagiarism for something that was completely and entirely my idea because she said, and I quote, You are not this funny in real life as you are on the page. And I was like, Well, that's interesting, as you and I have never spoken until this exact moment. But I'm so glad that you have this preconceived notion of me. I guess my RBF is like really strong, but it was it was a whole thing. And it really put me off of writing for a long time. Because I was like, you know, this was something that I really thought was really fun and wanted to do and share and thought this would be a great thing if, you know, like in some universe, someone thought, you know, that would be a funny thing to have made, but never took it like super seriously beyond that. But it became quite serious when it then started affecting whether or not I was gonna graduate because it was my final term. So I looked at that and I was like, I think I'm gonna take a pause from the creative for a while, when it was, of course, determined that there's no way in hell that I could have plagiarized this story that was so far afield from anything that existed. Like it was a weird King Arthur retelling, but like in a bunker, because it was in this like Y2K setting where like this family had thought Y2K was definitely gonna happen and like hadn't gotten the memo that it was, you know, it was safe to come outside, except half the family had. It was it was weird, but it was fun. And applied to do classical history and religion in university. And I had always kind of had the idea that I wanted to be a professor growing up. I loved Indiana Jones. I grew I fell in love with Egyptology when I was seven, and I started watching all these National Geographic videos and all these documentaries and things like that. So when the opportunity came about to actually finally start studying and immersing myself in the things that I found interest in outside of school anyway, it was a match made in heaven for me. So I did that for my undergrad and my graduate degree, and I absolutely loved it. I was very specialized by the time I left grad school and thought maybe I'll do a PhD. And the field I was applying to do PhDs in across the board was cut for funding the year that I was applying. A couple of schools got back to me and were like, we're not taking anyone for ancient art and archaeology for the next five years. Apply back in five years, like you're a really strong candidate. And I was like, in five years, I'm gonna be in my 30s. So this doesn't seem like a great life plan, especially when a PhD takes on average five to seven years. I was like, I'm gonna be 40 by the time that this actually gets done. And at that point, you know, you're at least I was, I was I was engaged to my now husband. I was like, okay, we're gonna get married. And at that point, I didn't think I would have any children just based on the fact of the career in academia and being a woman in academia doesn't lend well to being a parent. Um, there's a lot of men with children in academia, and they often have wives that are at home with their children, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I have kept my daughter at home with me while I've worked from home, but it's just not a viable environment. So I left academia after that, but I taught at the university level for a while. I then, when I moved to the US, taught in all levels of education, and that was an experience. And I quickly learned that I did not like that at all. And I loved working with kids, hated working with admin. Admin is the bane of my existence. It was a miserable experience. And not only that, we live in a time now where everyone is expected to be so readily accessible because of technology that my evenings often extended until 11 p.m. with parents contacting me. And I was like, I get that you're concerned for your child, but I also need time to decompress and be with my husband and by myself with quiet. Um, so that was a few years that was really hard. In the midst of all of that, I had a few traumatic brain injuries and concussions, which actually forced me to leave my job because I was they were pretty severe. Uh, I couldn't read for several years because of the damage that I had done. I needed to be in like constant therapies to get back on my feet, as it were. And in that time, I was like, well, I need something to do. So I started a business for myself, which I did for a few more years. And while that was happening, I kept having this nagging idea of this story. And I had listened to a meditation and it had this drumming, and I was like, I'm just getting this imagery of this girl dancing around fire. And how cool would it be if she was controlling the fire? Um, and that was really the beginning of what became the Forgotten Dawn. For years, I would write like a few chapters every year, and I would show them, and my husband would be like, This is what do you think? And he's like, It's good, but what's the story? And I was like, I have no fucking idea. Like, I really have not a clue. Like, I have this idea of what the world could be and what some of the magic could be, but really there's no plot. And it it's it really took several years to finally get to that point. It was funny because my husband kept saying he wanted to write. And I was like, okay, well, let's let's find a writer's group and try to get something going. I had mentioned to Bethany beforehand, but I used to have a YouTube channel where I talked about books and it was all fantasy for the most part. And I met some really wonderful people through there, and we ended up forming a writer's group, and I wrote probably 80% of a book uh through there. Again, a King Arthur thing, which maybe I'll get back to at some point in my life. But I then came across Aquatar and read it, and like millions of other people. It was like this bomb went off in my brain, and I was like, this is the genre that I can make this work in, and all of the pieces then kind of fell into place. But yes, it was this very long, twisted, windy path that finally got us here.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Yeah, I think it's it's very important that our listeners hear that if that you can come and originate from any point in time and evolve into an author and and be in the next flora A Blake. I think it's important that they understand the journey can doesn't look the same. Uh no, but getting there, you know, if you can get there and get it done, do it.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's always I'm a very firm believer that there are no more original ideas, but everyone's story is unique to them. And I can't wait to read it. So it's one of those things that if someone says to me they're like, Oh, I have a book idea, I'm like, write it. We don't have your book yet. So we're waiting for it. Like, give it to us. And yeah, I mean, every author, I love to go look at author biopages. I do it all the time, and I'm like, how did you get here? And yeah, it's always really fascinating to see what people's journeys are. Like Gretchen Paula Fox, who um has written the Splintered Kingdom series, she published her first book like 12 years ago and then took a really big leave of absence and came back with a bang. And I'm like, girlfriend, you did it. That's awesome. Um, you know, and it's just it's really neat to see how everyone kind of gets where they are.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

She did. Yeah, Gretchen was actually one of our early guests on season one before she had her trad deal. She was still indie. Oh my gosh. Listen there. So if you have not checked out Gretchen's episode, check it out. It's in our season one catalog. But it's that exact journey that you're talking about, Laura, where where it looks different for everyone. And I love that, right? Because I can see a lot of myself and your journey, right? Where you have kind of the career, you know, all of that that you built up first, and you still have this idea nagging in your head, and then you make that transition to writing.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

So I love I love hearing that.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

So I'd love to hear about your publishing journey. Uh what was getting through the writing, you got there, you did it. Yeah. Now that's that's the exciting moment for you to like say, I'm gonna publish. I know I we understand some of the criteria why you chose indie publishing, but how did what was the moment?

SPEAKER_04 20:42

Guitar really was my moment. I cannot explain to you the level of damage that resan did to my brain, but honestly, it was it was this weird, weird thing where I not to be like TMI, but I'm a pretty vocal person about infertility and things like that. But I had a really arduous infertility journey. And even after my daughter was born, it didn't end there. And I had had, I think, like my third or fourth miscarriage um in January of the year that I started writing my book. And I had never read romancy before. I had read strictly epic fantasy because like I had this really elitist and pompous idea that I was like, well, this is what fantasy is because some white man from 200 years ago told me that this is what I needed to read. And I was like, why, why is this even a thing? Like, why, why do I care? And two of my best friends who were romancy readers said to me, they were like, We know you're kind of in the thick of it right now, and you need just something that's gonna ease, ease you. And it started with fourth wing. They were like, Go read Fourth Wing. And I was like, fine, I'll go read it. Had a ball, like, had so much fun. I was like, is this what I've been missing in this genre? Like, oh my God, guys, we've been holding out. So then immediately was like, Well, give me all the things, give them, give them to me. And pretty much jumped right into Avatar and then read all of Sarah J. Maas's books in the span of a month. Um, in the month of February of twenty twenty-four, I read all of Sarah J. Maas and I was like, okay, this is this is what it is. And then I sat down in April at or April in March at the beginning of the month, and I said to my husband, the book is my book is gonna be done by June. I'm giving myself a few months. The book was done in three weeks. I just sat down and pumped it out like it was my full-time job. It was like all of the words that had been bubbling in those chapters that I kept giving him for the previous few years were finally at a point where they just needed to get out of me and they knew that this was, this was gonna be it. I then, of course, ripped that manuscript apart and rewrote it like 16 more times. But I very quickly knew I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to start my publishing career with because this is gonna be the epicenter of every other thing that I write. And it's gonna, it's fun. Like, it's not necessarily a secret, but like I do plan on having a shared universe for my books. And this I felt was the one that needed to come first. So as soon as I started writing it, I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna query it. And initially thought I would go trad. If you've ever been on the PubTips Reddit for querying, it is an awesome place, also so demoralizing. I was so depressed every time I went on there. I was like, oh God, like this is this is just not gonna happen. And then pretty quickly came to the conclusion that I wanted to independently publish the book. So it took a pretty big detour from that point. Found a couple editors, found some beta readers, and really dived in and was like, okay, my plan is to publish the book next year. So I pushed really hard for marketing for like about probably like a solid year for the book before it came out, but the six months prior to release was just nonstop marketing all the time.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

Yeah, I I actually was fortunate enough to get an arc of your book. Yeah. Um and you're the reason I even read Quicksilver and Brimstone. I'm so honored. Yeah. You're actually she's my entryway into romanticy. I was like, That's true. Yeah. You're my So I was um, I wouldn't be on the show if it wasn't for you because I was like, after I read your book, it was like, I need to read all of the other books because I didn't realize this is what it's like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:46

And it's it's honestly, it's like it's like going on a really great first date where you sit there and you're just like, we're vibing, right? And the other guy or person looks at you and kind of like raises their eyebrows and leans in and you're like, oh, this is definitely vibing. Like, oh, what's this gonna turn into? And it's so fine when you find a genre that is plentiful and it just hits for you at the right time. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Yes. I I will I will say that it it's like you said in the beginning, that you're very much about writing immersively. I felt that. I always brag about your story. I'm like, it's immersive, it's high fantasy, it's all this stuff has romance in it. So it has everything you want in one thing, and like you just like freaking out about it. And yeah, that's an immersive thing. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Laura, I'm curious, you know, for aspiring authors like Sarah and myself, what advice would you give to somebody else who wants to follow in your footsteps?

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Do it. Like, that's honestly the best advice I could give it, give you, and also start marketing the second you have an idea. Because people kind of will jump in and support you. And it's a really easy way to garner a following before the book is ready, and you'll already have people that want to ARC read for you or beta read for you. And it's important as an author to try to build community with your readership as much as you can. It's different in Trad, I feel like, where it used to be different, but again, I still feel like it's kind of edging more towards what indies are doing in that we we must have a presence on social media because otherwise no one's gonna find us. Um so starting that early would probably be the thing. And writing, like write the book.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

So I have a follow-up question on the marketing because I've been wondering this. So I'm I'm doing my final, you know, developmental and line edits and everything should be done. Yeah, I'm working with a book coach and an editor on that, right? And everything should be done by like August, September time frame. Obviously, I don't, you know, I'm gonna query for a bit, and then if not, probably, you know, indie publish early, you know, maybe like March next year, for instance. Like, when should I start promoting this book? Because it's not technically done. And I don't want to be like, you can have this in two years, but I I don't know when am I supposed to do it now?

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Now I would say honestly, and it's one of those things too that a lot of people in chat are saying that they're not being looked at by agents anymore unless they're coming in even with a debut with a following. So I mean, you kind of have an advantage that you have a podcast that has a following, which is something that you can put on a query letter and that you should. But it's definitely one of those things that I've seen people that have been marketing the same book for two years. And I'm like, that's fine. I mean, it, you know, the thing with with Trad that's so hard is that it moves at a glacial pace. So, you know, that was one of the things that I thought initially too. I was like, well, I'll give it like six months of querying. And I was like, uh, when you start getting into it and seeing some agents' notes on their website, they're like, I might not get back to you for four to six months. And I'm like, that was the whole time I was gonna give this process. What does that mean? And I mean, that's only to hear back from some of them. And then if they decide that they maybe want to work with you, then okay, that's possibly a little bit longer. And then a lot of people sit on submission for close to a year. And then if the book is picked up, it can be another year to 18 months. So I mean, you're if you're writing a book to market and what is doing well now in four years from now, when your book is potentially published, that might not be the same thing. So that's one of the other things I would say to people is really look at timelines and what you are writing. Because if you are writing something that you feel would sell well in the market now, my personal advice would be to try to independently publish it. Because if it's gonna do well, it's gonna do well. And you will then be able to still pitch it to an agent. But if it's three years post when it would be, might not work as well for you.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

I I I think you might have sold me on indie. I think this is the day I declare I'm gonna be an indie puppet. I'm gonna go indie.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

We're happy to have you. I've been so like gung-ho on trad, and that just the more I hear about indie, the more I actually feel like that is not only the route, but I have so much more respect. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

I would say my husband, yeah, my husband is like a diehard for indie. He's just like, he's like, screw the trad way. Like, don't don't let someone put a number for your book. He's like, We'll put the number for your book. He's but I was like, no, no, I want to try trad. I want to try. I want to see if I can get that. Because I'm like, I'm very much about like, let's get that check so we can pay off some stuff and move on. And he's just like, no, fuck it. Like, we'll just, you know, do the long haul, see how it goes, um, put it out there and get it done. I was like, I'll be your investor. So I was like, you know what? It just sounds better and better.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

Yeah, there's people don't necessarily understand too that a royalty check is kind of it's a deficit. Like you get the money in advance, but you then don't earn any more money until the publisher earns back that amount. Whereas with Indy, you're earning what you earn from the onset. Yes, you'll have expenses in regards to, you know, probably having an editor, a cover, or things like that. Like they do add up. But it really depends on what your goals are. And I mean, some people can publish a book for, you know, a thousand dollars, some people can do it for a couple hundred dollars, depending on what their experience is. If they can edit their own book, things like that. I am useless with grammar. I am so bad at it. I am fluent in two languages. I always say I can speak two languages and I can't use grammar in either one. Like it's absolutely terrible. So that for me was something I knew off the bat. I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna have to have a quality editor because I can't do any of this myself. But yeah, you can definitely you get from it what you put into it a lot of the time, I feel like.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

So yeah, it's it's viable. I know my husband, I was telling my husband's the cost for it. And he's like, that's fine, it's a write-off. We just write it off. And then, you know, we worry about that later. And I was like, all right, well, shoot, let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

At this point, I think I've spent everything except for just the cover. So I had the editor, I had the book code. What's one more cover?

SPEAKER_03 31:12

What is it? Today was a great day for information, Bethany. It was just I know.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I have so much to reflect on.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

Yeah, you guys have been a wealth of knowledge today as far as you know, publishing tips and everything. But now let's get into your book. Let's start talking about your story. Sure. Okay. For listeners discovering your work. What is at the heart of the Forgotten Dawn?

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Well, that's loaded. You can start by telling us what it's about if that's easier.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

I am the worst at pitching my book. I'm so bad at it. Like, I I have not nailed down an elevator pitch for this at all. I'm just like, here, please read the blurb, and hopefully something will come about for you. I would say that it is a blending of epic and romantic fantasy. It is definitely fantasy-led with hints of romance. I try to tell people that if they're a fan of Throne of Glass, they'll probably like it because it kind of has that epic scope of the world. Meanwhile, it still has some familiar tropes that you're familiar with. I definitely have imbued it with a lot of lore, a lot of mythos, a lot of questioning. Um, I wanted the world to feel lived in in the way that our world is lived in, in the sense that things fade over time. Our understanding of things fade over time. And a lot of people don't know who the real gods were, if they existed, what traditions were. And there's a mystery to the world that my main character is thrust into that she herself is trying to discover. Meanwhile, everyone else around her is pretty much as aimless and clueless as she is, even though they propagate themselves as the authority. Um I'd say at the heart of it, it is a girl who is struggling to find her place in this world who is deeply caring and gets thrust into absolute chaos.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

I live for chaos. Me too. I still I'm in her Discord and I was so upset. I was like, what is that? So when you say chaos, she means chaos, guys. She's not kidding.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Yeah, I'm I I always say to people, I'm like, I I do kill characters, guys. I'm very sorry. But um, and I I'm not a fan of a resurrection trope, so it kind of just is, and it it is, but I feel it just as deeply as the people that were upset. I cried the day I wrote that scene for hours. I was pacing around my kitchen crying. My husband thought that like a legitimate family member had died, and I was like, no. So yeah, we do feel it as deeply, but sometimes it just happens.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

I don't know. Sarah, Sarah, are you as angry at Laura as you were at Jackson for what he did in his book? Or is Jackson are you still more mad at him? Like, where's this one standing on your spectrum?

SPEAKER_03 34:07

So we've been talking a lot about like crazy endings, and I'm gonna say this. Jackson pissed me off because he destroyed all the characters, in my opinion. He just said, I'm gonna rip you to pieces for everybody. But she pissed me off because we were expecting one thing, and she said, Nope, and just pulled the rug under and was like, You're not gonna get anything you thought you were gonna get. Good luck. And I'm like, what the there's a lot of that.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

I'm sorry, and honestly, like some of the early arc reviews I'm getting for book two are saying the same thing, and I'm like, I've mission accomplished.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Oh, I didn't read no, no, I read, I picked this book up so I could feel from book one. I saw you'll have to let me know how it goes.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

That will let you know. Yeah, I will let you know works for me. Oh god, this is gonna okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Well, thanks for the heads up, I guess. Absolutely. Here to help. So you've talked a lot about your world building and how you've built your structure and how immersive it is. And it's not just like physically and mythologically immersive, but it's also emotionally grounded. You deal with anxiety. Um, and I've I've even seen hints of like what I assume is ADHD in some of your characters as well. And the way that you deal with it and how they approach the world, see the world, how they act about the world, or how it talks on their strengths and weaknesses is so impressive. What made you want to take that direction?

SPEAKER_04 35:39

I was really tired of FMCs who were just assassins and super strong from the get-go. Like there's nothing wrong with that, but I was like, I am not that person at all. I I have maybe not full-blown EDS, but I have hypermobility. I would look at a sword and be like, I can lift that up like halfway up my body. And that's about as far as it's gonna go before something dislocates. And I wanted a main character who I felt was relatable for all of the people that were like me, that didn't necessarily see themselves as an alien, maybe saw themselves a little bit more as a wallflower in that sense. Um, so I knew off the bat I wanted Brita to be more bookish. A lot of her tendencies are how my tendencies were during grad school to kind of hunker down in a library, get answers. That's how I kind of live my life. I'm I'm very much, I need answers. And Brita is sort of akin to me in that way. But she's really different from me, honestly. Like it's funny because when I wrote the book, my two best friends, the ones that put me on the fourth wing, were my initial beta readers. And they were like, Oh, I see some some of you and Britain, and then they were like, It's Lil. And I was like, Yeah. And I was like, that's more I kind of inserted myself into this one particular character. But I wanted someone who could be quiet and could be heroic. Like that for me was really important. I wanted someone, you don't always have to be the loudest person in the room to have the most impact. And that's not, again, saying I I naturally am a very loud person if it's not abundantly clear. Like I word vomit all the time when people get me going. Brita is not that person. She's very contemplative and she's quiet and she's passive, and that's because the world has kind of forced her to be that way. But she's also just embraced that part of herself and she accepts that part of herself and it's okay. So I definitely just wanted I wanted someone who was gonna go about the world a bit more cautiously than someone who is very headstrong and jumps in. Because a lot of people are anxious and do have anxiety. And it's interesting because when I wrote The Forgotten Dawn, I was not an anxious person. And I've had a lot of health issues in the last year that have caused a lot of anxiety, and that is very reflective in book two. So for a different character. But it was interesting because I felt like my character experienced something before I did, and I was like, oh, this is kind of what she went through that I'm now experiencing through myself.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

I love how therapeutic it can be to reflect on what's happening to us through our characters and really trying to know. I've had a lot of that happening, you know, infertility, right as well. You're kind of channeling that anger and that depression into characters and watching that world build in a way that I can at least, you know, relate to. Deal with. Yeah, exactly. Relate to and and start to come to terms with. For sure.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Yeah, I I'll say your story to me is very important because of how much you care about all of your characters. So it's not really about the main female and male. It is, but everyone else gets a real chance, a real story, a real backstory, internal thoughts. Um, and I I loved everyone. And that's why what you did sucked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:16

It was bad. I'm not gonna lie, it was bad. But that for me was probably the most important thing as I was writing. All the books that I love are predominantly character books. There's a few books that I really love that are plot forward, but for the majority of them, I'm a character-driven reader. So it was important to me that if people didn't maybe see themselves in Brita, that maybe they saw themselves in Lil. Or, you know, they can have Acadian in their lives. I have a platonic best friend who I have zero interest in romantically. And he's been in my life for a very, very long time. Out of two of them, actually. Um, and I wanted things like that because that to me feels more grounded as a vote as opposed to people necessarily being caricatures, kind of just in the background. But yeah, thank you. That's very, very kind.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

I'm really curious, right? Because this is this is, you know, kind of a multi-book saga, right, that we have coming up here. So I'm always curious, like, did you always know, you know, how this is gonna end? Like, how far in advance are you planning this? Are you are you dropping breadcrumbs that we need to be picking up right now? Yes, there are many, many breadcrumbs.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

Oddly enough, I pants my way through book one. I had a few scenes that were very clear in my head, but I just sat down and I wrote with very little plan. And I have, I knew how the end would be the very, very end of book four. So I was like, okay, we just need to get to that point. Um, when I sat down to write books here, I was like, there's no way in hell I can pass my way through this book because it shifts from being single POV to multi-POV. It's three characters in three different places. I was like, we need a fucking plan because otherwise this is gonna be so awful. It's just gonna be absolute madness. And not in the madness I enjoy, madness in that this is not legible. So uh I took a while to sit down and plot the second book, and then I wrote probably the first two, maybe the first half, I went in sequence, chapter to chapter, rotating from character to character, and then I said, this is getting to be a little bit much. So I then decided to just write fully in one character, finish their arc, fully in another character, finish their arc, and then I did that for the third character, and then went in and wove it into where each chapter needed to be. For the third book, I'm doing the same thing. I'm writing act by act, but I'm doing it in character voice to character voice, just because that way for me I can stay in their mindset a little bit better. Um, but yeah, it's really interesting because like I I admire people who can plan and are planners so much, but I I love pantsing a book. It's just so fun, and I love when things work out and you're like, that was so unplanned, and it was magic when it happened. I'm working on a standalone right now, though that's kind of the case, and I've been having a lot of fun with it. But yeah, it's it's good, you know. I think you can do both. That's incredible, first of all.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

I love the way you're very strategic about the next book. You were like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna finish an arc and then finish an arc and then finish an arc. Yeah. I was surprised when I moved into this one. I was like, oh, it's multi-POV, but I was so excited about the characters you chose to do multi-POV for. So I was like, yeah.

unknown 42:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

It's funny because when I started writing it, I was like, oh, I have a in my mind, I was like, this is gonna be my favorite POV to write. Was not. I ended up having a very different one in my mind that I was like, it's this one. And I think it shows in the book because a lot of people said to me, they're like, this POV is my favorite. I'm like, too. But it was really, it was a challenge switching to multi-POV and it was exhausting a lot of the time, but it's what the story dictated. So it's what needed to happen.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Yeah, I'm so curious because I see a lot of authors where the book one is single POV, right? And then two, three, et cetera, are multi-POVs. And I always, I always wonder why that is. Is it just the epicness of it, right? And now we're, you know, we're splitting people up, right? And everybody has their own different classes.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

I'd say so. Yeah, in my book, people end up in different places at the end of book one. So we needed to know for the overarching plot what was happening in each of these places, and also they're not all getting the same information. So it all kind of from the reader weaves together for the overarching narrative. While, of course, the POVs are only getting snippets and pieces. But I I am a firm believer that romanticy is gonna go beyond a trilogy. There needs to be more than one romantic couple for me to maintain my interest. So for me, I need there to be multi POV in that sense. To really kind of like continue for me to be like, yes, I want this. Because usually if it's more than a trilogy, the main couple gets together usually in the second book, if not the first book. And I'm like, okay, well, where do we go from here? If that's a big part of the plot. And if we have these other couples to kind of then start them on their journey at different parts of the story, oh, it's so fun. It's so, so fun.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

I've been enjoying it very much. So you're you said four books, correct? Okay, you got four. Okay. And you've already told everyone there will be more than one romantic couple we get to follow along with. So that's exciting. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

Look at us, Sarah. We're just we're just pulling the information out. We're tricking Laura to tell us it all.

SPEAKER_04 44:44

It's hinted at pretty strongly in book one. Like, we've got a boy.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Let us have this moment.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

Oh, sorry. But yeah, it's happening. No, there's there's one that slowly starts to burn in book two that I didn't even see coming. And I was like, okay. And I was like, I'm here for this. I am so here for this. And it was really fun to write. And I'm excited to see where that goes. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

That's amazing. So for readers who are going into book two, what are they looking at? Is there a time jump? Is you know right off the bat from the horror.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

Pretty much from the horror of the end of book one. It is, but from a different character's perspective. So I I wanted to do that to kind of re-immerse people in what was happening. So, because you know, not everyone is gonna read your book back to back. For some people, they read my book last June, and it's gonna be May when the book goes live. And if they read it in May, great, but you know, that's almost a year. Some people it might be longer. So I wanted to give people a footing back to where we had been.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

By the way, I love that. She had the summary in the beginning that kind of catches you back up. And I was like, that is so nice.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

I I love a good recap. Yes. Yes. I was like, not that I could forget, but I I really appreciated it.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

Well, I thank you. My hope is that eventually we get to a point that all series will have recaps at the beginning. Yeah. So I agree.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Yeah, we could talk to you forever, and we probably will. So I'm sure you're not safe from us in the future, but that's fine. Sarah, you want to do our lightning round? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

Ready to do it? Ready to get into it? Okay. Which of your characters would survive best in our world? Lil, without question.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Without question. Girlfriend was made for the era of social media. She'd be absolutely fine.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Yeah. Yeah. I'd have been a lot happier too. Um I trope you'll never get tired of. Faded mates. Love it forever. Yes. Slow burn or instant connection.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

Slow burn. Oh my god. Glacial. I want it to be as slow as humans as possible. If they look at each other in book one, I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

That's what I want. So if your world was real, which court would you want to belong to?

SPEAKER_04 47:14

What I want to belong to? Oh god. Probably all of them except the court of whispers because I'm from Canada and I'm really over the cold and it's in the peak of the mountains. But I aesthetically would probably pick the court of reflection. If it was based on my actual characteristics and who I am as a person, it would probably be the eternal court.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

The eternal court. Yeah. I like a shadow court. I'm like, ooh, it's dark and brooding. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 47:39

I love it too. But I'm I'm an academic at heart, so I'm like, you know, they're into academia, so that's probably where I'd end up being. But who knows?

SPEAKER_03 47:48

One word to describe the Shattered Sky saga. Epic. Yep. I agree. Well, Laura, thank you so much for coming on. It was such a pleasure to have you and to talk about your journey. Yes. It was a it can't wait to read the rest of your book, too. And I'm excited for I mean, I might, I might be. I might be excited.

SPEAKER_04 48:07

I make no guarantees or promises, none whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Sir, I'll have you back and really grill you for book two, like she didn't. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

Works for me. Well, I hope you guys have a great rest of your week, and thank you so much for coming on again.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Bye. That's it for this chapter of the Mythic Mike Podcast. But the adventure doesn't end here. Subscribe, leave a review, and follow us on social media at Mythic Mike Pod for updates, giveaways, and all the bookish and writing fun. Want more? Join our newsletter at mythicmike.com for bonus tips, other insights, and behind the scenes magic. Until next time, stay mythical.