Mayors, Mothers and Making It Happen with Mayor Rokhsana Fiaz

In this special episode of Planning After Dark, Jackie, Alex and Catriona are joined by Mayor of Newham Rokhsana Fiaz for a wide-ranging, moving and very PAD Pod conversation about leadership, legacy and local government.

Rokhsana reflects on her eight years as Mayor, from stepping into Newham’s executive mayoral model and challenging old political cultures, to putting people at the heart of inclusive growth, Olympic legacy, community wealth building and the regeneration of places like Alice Billings House. There’s serious talk on housing, homelessness, renters’ rights, trust in politics, London’s looming local elections and why lived experience matters in public policy.

There’s also plenty of classic PAD chaos: fashion watch, If Mayors Ruled the World, Star Wars, House of Cards, ABBA, Sade, Michael Jackson scrapbooks and one very strong motherly mantra: “You don’t need permission to be a leader, just be one.” 

Candid, hopeful and full of heart, it’s a conversation about cracking codes, rebuilding trust and what happens when women lead from the front.

Get in touch! Message us at ask@planningafterdark.co.uk

Planning After Dark is the bold and insightful podcast where three powerhouse women in planning and development - Alex Notay, Catriona Riddell, and Jackie Sadek - shine a light on the industry’s biggest challenges, trends, and, yes, even a bit of behind-the-scenes gossip.

From navigating the complexities of development to debating the future of our cities, Planning After Dark is the no-holds-barred discussion you won’t want to miss.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Planning After Dark is powered by Kratos Group, who will be heading back to UK Reef in Leeds in May. Kratos is bringing a bumper programme of events, insights, and conversations from across the built environment, all from their pavilion, proudly partnered with BT. If you're going to be in Leeds, you won't want to miss it. Find out more at Kratos.co.uk slash UK Reef.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Well, hello and welcome to another Bumper edition of Planning After Dark. My name is Jackie Sadek, and I am joined by Alex Note and Katrina Ridale. And I'm delighted to say we have a very special guest with us this afternoon, Mayor Roxana Fiaz. Hi there, ladies. It's great to have you with us, Roxana. Thank you very much indeed for coming. Well, we ought to really just leap straight into this, shouldn't we? And just to say, for those who don't know, the set text for this podcast, the Pad Pod, is of course Benjamin Barber's If Mayors Ruled the World. He really should be paying us commission now. I think we should read it. Alex, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but the poor guy died in 2017. Maybe it should be coming up to it. Apologies. But we are going to reissue uh If Mayors Ruled the World to be If Women Mayors Ruled the World.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

No, just if women ruled the world, that would be equally good.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

All right, but we just need to know it's a general shout out for exemplary behaviour in civic leadership. And I'm delighted, therefore, to be able to introduce Roxana to our listeners, our ever-growing group of listeners, I might say. I think we're in the thousands now, who is, of course, Mayor of Newham, and I think you were elected on the 7th of May 2018. So you're just coming up to your eighth birthday. So what is your story, darling? You are very young and very beautiful, and you seem to us to be far too young to have.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

And then before we go into fashion watch, can I just say extremely fashionable?

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Very good colour scheme. It's already been noted that there's a very good colour scheme. We'll get onto that a bit later, if the chair lets us. Okay, so you two had better start behaving. Tell us a bit about how you became mayor of Newham, Roxana. It's an interesting story, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Um somewhat quite dramatic. I mean, the only way in which I can describe it just given how dramatic it was. And I often use cultural reference points, combination of Star Wars, Jedi's, Darkseid, a little bit of House of Cards, a tiny wincy bit of scandal. But no, I mean I wasn't ever anticipating putting myself forward to be the Labour candidate for the Mayor of Newham, and I found myself in a really privileged position to be endorsed by both the broad alliance of local party members at the time and then thereafter.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

You were a councillor already though.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Yeah, I'd been a councillor between 2014 and 18. Prior to that, no experience of local government, and had an eye to sort of different other avenues of politics. I was listening to one of the previous podcasts with Helen and she talked about how she wasn't involved in Labour student politics. Fortunately, unfortunately, I was. So I was quite heavily involved in Labour students back in the day, and politics very much in my blood, not necessarily because of student politics, but actually probably informed by my background. You know, I'm a child of immigrants. My parents came here in the early 60s, and around the breakfast table, there was very animated discussions about what was happening in their country of origin and my country of heritage, Pakistan, and there was the military coup at the time, and I remember really vividly my parents curiously used to have delivered at home, and do not ask me why. On the one hand, an Urdu language paper called the Daily Jang that used to be two days out of date because it needed to be flown into the UK, and then every month my mum and dad would purchase a copy of Country Life magazine. Wow, that's not what I was expecting you were gonna say. And I was growing up in Newham, and I think actually, when I reflect on that period, because I've got such vivid memories that have informed and influenced what I've done since. Very much kind of immigrant getting on and doing well for children but also wider community, and that's always been instilled in me. But going back to how I found myself in this very privileged role, a combination of unintended consequences: Game of Thrones, Star Wars, House of Cards, and I've got enough material now for Netflix drama series, but also driven by real passion to doing good and serving people.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

And you stepped into the shoes of Sir Robin Wales, who was a very kind of high-profile, notorious almost mayor of Newham, who had, of course, stewarded the Olympics through and had been mayor for a long, long time, and he was almost like the Robert Mugabe of the situation. That must have been a tough gig to step into his shoes.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Well, I certainly think that leadership was of an era and of an age, and I got an incredible democratic mandate of the electorate that voted. I secured 73.2% of the vote. Wow. And I remember actually funnily, and this is probably an indication of part of my personality that's quite earnest. I got a call from the Labour Party London Region Press Desk in the immediate period after the election was announced on the day after the election, because they did the count the day after, from recollection, yeah, they did. And they were lining up interviews, and the media guy said, God, it's not as if you've done very well, you've only got 73.3%. And I said, Oh my god, I am so sorry. Seriously thinking I needed to have done better. And then he burst out laughing. He said, No, I was only kidding you, that's phenomenally well.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I don't remember what the turnout figure was, like proportionately. I'm sure I could Google it.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

I think it would have been 40%.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

But that's no high for what we're averaging kind of 19-20% for most.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, but I think it was very much indicative of the real appetite for something different in the borough, and actually for me, how it really emphasizes the importance of place-based leadership, but also place-based leadership that isn't superficial and just doesn't talk about it, but is very much immersed in the community, and I think trust is so important as well, and just being able to feel and experience the difference because I've always been driven by just ethical leadership and doing good.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

And we're beginning to see a few different types of males and more women coming into politics than that. We've got quite a lot in the cabinet now. Senior woman. I mean, what what is it like to be a woman in that sort of level of power or seniority?

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yeah, really good question. I mean, arguably, it's hard generally in any leadership position if you're a woman, and at whatever age, I think it can be particularly harder. And I'm really not trying to make a woke point. I think this is absolutely evidenced on issues of intersectionality when race, culture, gender come into play. I was very alert to the fact that at the point at which I first got elected and then subsequently re-elected, I was the first female of colour and first Muslim female of colour in the UK and in Europe that was elected at unitary authority level in this executive mayoral position of any municipality. I mean there had been at the time another female, but that was outside of London, so I was the second female executive mayor in the country. And then most recently, there's been Brenda from Lewisham. So I think all of those things you are very alive and alert to, and you carry a real responsibility and obligation as a consequence.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

And I think that, as Jackie said, Robin Wales was more of a traditional leader. I mean, how much churn was there in the council in terms of councillors when you took over? Did you have a little bit of a challenge because they were more traditional, or was there quite a bit of a churn at the time?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

So I pretty much inherited a dominant Labour group who had secured labour incumbency in every single ward seat that was contested, so that was 60. That's amazing. And all of those were selected in the period ahead of me putting my feet my my name forward for becoming the Labour candidate for the mayor of Newham. So I had new younger generation council candidates and then colleagues that had been at the council for a really long time, and actually reflecting back how you carry an agenda for change, which is what I stood on with a very ambitious and radically different programme where I placed very much at the centrality of what we were doing people. So I stood on a platform of people at the heart of everything that we do, and how that needed to filter into everything that the council did in an organisation that was so used to operating under the shadow of a previous mayor or leader. I'm a child of the early 70s, and I've grew up in the amazing metropolis that is London, and in an urban setting and diversity, and really fascinated with ideas, but also innovation and change and transformation, and actually how can we grip public sector bodies because I've had direct experience and I've born witness to the experience of my parents and their generation navigating public sector systems to the detriment of actually the outcomes that public sector bodies are purporting to deliver for people, and I think that has been very much part of what's driven me around change.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

And what about your mum and dad? I mean, they've they're immigrants, they must have been unbelievably proud to see their daughter grow up and take on this role.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

They are they are, and as with all parents, they are very encouraging for me to continually do my best. So I mean, you know, when I reflect on their patience with me in the past eight years, particularly given that they're going through their most senior period of their life. So my father, he's just turned 85, my mother's just turned 80. They're entering into that period of their life where me and my siblings are needing to be a bit more hands-on, and it's made me realise actually how much they have been such an anchor and rock, and there's been moments during my morality where it's been so intense, and just being able to go home and know that I can ask my mum or dad for a hug and just kind of doesn't go away, does it? No, it really, really, really does it. Unless you're Scottish and then we just don't hug. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And my mother had always said to me from the point that I, you know, could can remember, and growing up, she did used to say to me, You were a really quiet child, very introvert. I used to think a lot and I used to visualize the world, imagine things. But my mum's always been constant with her. You don't need permission to be a leader, just be one. And I always love that, I love that. Oh my quote! That's fantastic. Um encouraging me to do my best because of the challenges that she encountered when she came to this country. I mean, she was 18 when she came, but an absolutely phenomenal and formidable strong woman.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Yeah, we've talked about our own mums and we have.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

We're all very lucky to have, but we're not surprised that you've got a strong mum about Sarah. We're not surprised about that all at all.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

No. So, in terms of mirror models, obviously we're going through a a world of change in England with devolution sort of being sweeping through with new mayors being a little bit. Well, hopefully it'll be sweeping a little bit quicker soon. Curling. Very gently hustling it through one at a time. One step forward, two steps back, and we're not used to not curling. So we've got a lot of existing mayors. We're gonna have hopefully a lot more mayors. I mean, for listeners not familiar with the unitary model, uh, executive mayor, just tell us a little bit of a difference between that and Sadiq's role, for example.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah. So in Newham, we are one of five local authorities, the most recent prior to the 2024 election, adopted through a referendum and mayoral model, and that was Croydon. So we have an executive mayoral model in Newham alongside Lewisham, Hackney, Tower Hamlets, and Croydon, and I'm sure I've missed one. And uh in some electorate, the voters directly vote for the leader, whereas in a leader and cabinet model, voters vote for councillors in wards, and the dominant party then determines who its leader of group is, and then that majority group becomes the administration group, and the executive mayor pretty much has all the executive power, but by law, in a unitary authority context, you have to have at least two members of cabinet, and you are also subject to certain decisions needing to be made by full councils, so the totality of councillors, and then you're also subject to scrutiny. And when I came in, I promised a referendum on the executive mural model, and the reason being it just becomes such a contested form of governance, and I think on reflection, a consequence of how it was being practiced, and in my general view, genuinely, notwithstanding the fact that I'd made it clear that I think there is something important around limits, are on terms and to terms of feeling quite reasonable. I think that there's something about political systems less so, it's more political culture. And actually, if you have a political culture, regardless of whether or not the governance system is leader or cabinet or an executive mural system, it's collaborative, it's forward-looking, it's dealing with the present here and now, but it's also forward thinking about what needs to be invested in for future generations, and as part of a wider ambition around placemaking, you need to bring people together. I think going back to your earlier point, when you're dealing with cultures in a council that are of the old as well as the new, how you carry that forward can be quite a challenge because you either are dealing with people that have got an open-mindedness and a permissibility to want to be part of change or be at the very least open to exploring it, i.e., suspending their disbelief that it can't work or they can't be an alternative, or you've got you know a mindset that says no, this is the only way it can be. And I think leadership in this day and age in particular requires an ability to be able to navigate that.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Yeah, collaboration. That's women are much better at that, aren't they? I think I think you'll get nothing but cheers from us on all of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Obviously, in 2012 feels like a lifetime ago in lots, lots of different ways, but Newman wasn't like a really key Olympic borough. So, what did that mean for your residence and what has it meant since then?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

So, since then, I think what's been mobilised particularly in the period, I'd say, over the last well, to since 2016, since the current Mirror of London has been in post, and I I'm not making a party political point, but I genuinely think that there had been the opportunity seized to do something different with a significant regeneration arena or geography. I think the for anyone to say it wasn't a great thing for East London, nah, I just go to those localities, see the impact that it's had in terms of widening opportunity in the form of jobs and skills and also pride. But I was really clear that we had locally got ourselves into a difficult conversation with our residents in convincing them on the value of the Olympics, partly because there had been a unfortunate uh set of decisions made to invest in the London Stadium, and then prior to me stepping in, I was a councillor and I was part of a group of councillors that were scrutinising the decisions, and some£57 million of public money was invested in the stadium which we then relinquished in exchange for I think it was up to£100,000 tickets over 99 years from West Ham Football Club, and then the privilege of being able to access use of the London Stadium but at a price, or having you know big major community event day but at a price, and then 10 smaller community days but at a price, which in revenue terms the council couldn't afford. And so there's been a huge amount of work that we've done in one bringing the park closer to people, and I think that's been enabled through resetting relationships through our proximity and closeness to the current mayor of London, Sadiq, whom I've known for a really long time, you know, consider to be a good friend.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

So is Helen Godwin. If all the mayors seem to know Sadiq, mayors have to hang together.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

I mean, I have I have to say to you, Roxana, I'll pay tribute to you. I mean, you and I sit on the London Legacy Development Corporation board together, and actually we had a very touching little leaving ceremony for Roxana the other day when she stepped away, and a beautiful bouquet of flowers arrived, and she was a bit teary. I'm dobbing her in now. But the work you did on the London Legacy Development Corporation in terms of chairing the inclusive growth committee and insisting at all points that people have to be at the heart of the mission. But nobody can take away, trust me, I look at Roxana and dealing with her residents with absolute pride. Nobody can take away from the fact that London did something very, very big in 2012, and it just goes to show we can do it. And Roxana has done everything she can to protect the legacy of that and to make sure that her residents get a good crack of the whip, I have to tell you, and I can I would go into a court of law and swear blind, nobody could have done any more than what Roxana Fiaz has done for her residence in Newham.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

And actually, it wasn't a way you and I came across each other was a few years ago in when I was co-chair of the Creative Land Trust, which I'm still a trustee of, but it's a charity that's looking about securing creative workspace for artists and studios across London. And we were looking to acquire what was a derelict, it'd been a form of firefighters accommodation, it'd been the environmental health office, it'd been a film set, but incredible grade two listed building, but big and expensive and with not much of a roof called Alice Billings House. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Alice Billings House, who was Alice Billings? Oh, there's a whole other podcast about that.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

We'll do that another time. I'll find it. But it's a it was a fantastic opportunity, but actually it only happened because of the role that you really pushed for Newham to be a real catalyst in engaging the community. I mean, last year we won, I think it was 3.8 million of funding from the National General Lottery Heritage Fund, the Architectural Heritage Fund, but actually Newham stumped up and put money and time into that. That is now an open artist studios, and we're funding the second phase of it. But I remember you gave a brilliant speech at the launch of that first phase, and it was about the community work that'd been done to get the schools and all the local kind of parts to see that cultural kind of heritage as theirs.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean it goes back to what Jackie said about inclusive growth, and actually, one of the things I'm really proud of is that we mobilised around inclusive growth and community wealth building in the year and a bit ahead of COVID-19, and my first term was very much characterised and marked by dealing with COVID-19. The worst that I thought I was going to deal with was a terrorist event, and actually, we were all dealing with a global pandemic, and actually really did bring to the fore issues of disproportionality, and then to the Alice Billens house, and from my understanding, she was historically an officer of the municipality of West Ham. Oh, thank you, madam. Public heads. It was something she didn't. Well, I put it on you, and I was blush.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

She was some kind of suffragette, I think, but before they were it's a suffragist suffragette, I was getting wrong way around.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

But no. And that part of the borough, well, West Ham and East London generally has been at the centre of so many important, significant social movements. But um Alice Billens House for me is an illustration of what we've been able to achieve at the council under my administration through mobilising clarity of vision for place and for people and making sure that they're not looking in but they're very much part of it. We were delighted when we found out the of the£60 million levelling up allocation that was given to London before. For uh under the previous government,£40 million of that went to Neum, of which we had shovel ready schemes and Alice Billen's House was one of them. And the idea and the vision for Alice Billings House and the wider site, because we've also got the old town hall in Stratford, part of a wider Stratford vision of it being sort of a hub and vibrant town centre that complements the new Stratford that's emerged through the Olympic Park. And then with the Olympic Park, again making sure that throughout our conversations on the London Legacy Development Corporation, people across the four growth boroughs now, Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest and Newham were very much at the centre of thinking by officers that it was their place and it was just a destination for others. And I mean, in the past week we've had the brilliance, absolute brilliance opening of the VA East. And who would have thought in our lifetime, me growing up in Newham, you know, the heady days of the Olympics being here, and I remember wandering around the new Queen Elizabeth Park and pretty much box fresh Westfield shopping centre and being so excited that it was coming here and continuing that and making people feel proud.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

I'm just going to jump in because I've reminded myself. Alice Billings was a pioneering Victorian sanitary inspector. That's it. And that's why when it was environmental health, they named after her. But brilliantly, in the Victorian era, her position was inspector of nuisances, which is, I think, perhaps something that you ladies might want to adopt. Inspector of Nuisances of Sanitarian Hodge. Anyway, it is an amazing. I really commend it to everyone because exactly as Rick Sana says it's in that really critical location. It's a couple of minutes from kind of Westfield and the station, but it is that bridge to the existing community. There's markets, there's not just the private studios, there's all sorts of like public uh activity there, and it's a really great community.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

And interestingly, in the long-standing part of Stratford and the shopping centre, that's going to be subject to redevelopment, but it has a Sainsbury's, and I think it's either in the top two or the top Sainsbury's with the highest footfall in the country. They're all going to have a voyage.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

They're all going to get in their lunch and then they're going off to Abba Voyage.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Our listeners can't see Jackie's eye rolling it now.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

But she's been I haven't been. I full disclosure, I haven't been, but I have met the guys. I mean, Roxana and I were both at a board meeting when they came and presented, and it is a phenomenal thing. And then a European destination.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Yeah. But I think for me, it's just really important, and I think NUM is very much a demonstration of this. And what I mean by this is cracking the code, actually, a diligent focus on outcomes and impact on people. So demanding intentionally, if we're going to make an investment or if we're going to be supporting this and if we're going to be mobilising around this as part of the partnership, we need to make sure that we are driving outcomes for people, and it's not just superficial, it has to be meaningful.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

Proper proper inclusive growth, I think so many people talk about it, but you walk the talk.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah, I was going to say that kind of covers exactly what we were going to ask you about your priorities because that's really clearly set in everything you've done. But what are you most proud of?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Oh gosh, right. I've been asked this, as you can imagine, frequently over the last couple of weeks, friends and colleagues. It is not lost on me that since 2018 there's been a 23% increase in people of Newham getting jobs.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

There's been a shift in the dial in terms of household income. I would often talk about the average income in Newham being£19,400 relative to£29,400 for London. On average, mobilising more jobs and opportunities for young people. I'm really pleased that the Inclusive Growth Committee and the London Legacy Development Corporation will be better promoting and bet proposing post-election. That needs youth unemployment needs to be a big focus. I think that Newham has been a really interesting RD lab, but providing a clear evidence base of testing new novel ideas that were seen at the time oh radical or no, that's not gonna work. Actually, it has worked, and people are following. And oh dare I say, given my campaigning fervour, probably influenced by mother, if you're gonna do something, make sure you do it right, and there's outcomes and delivery. Oh, taking on the banks, so challenged a product that the council taken out, a loan product, and managed to successfully through legal challenge and a process, secure£140 million worth of interest payment savings for Newham Council over a 40-year period. That's not to be sniffed at.

SPEAKER_04 27:45

I think that's a really good idea. So, I mean, you've talked a lot about your family and your upbringing, and these are the things that make us who we are, and especially as women in this world, that it's really important, and if we've got strong mums, um, we are so lucky. But you've talked in the past about your upbringing, you you were made homeless, your family were made homeless, and of course, Friday we have now the Renters Rights Act coming in. I mean, what do you think about this? Is gonna be a game changer?

SPEAKER_01 28:12

I think it's absolutely gonna be a game changer in a material sense. People's lives. I think we are going to need to be rapid in our systems response and what we have seen, and this has been the experience of many local authorities, particularly in London, which has been driving the pressures as it relates to temporary accommodation at costs because we've got a legal obligation to prevent homelessness and put people up in what is costly, you know, nighttime accommodation hotels. My personal experience, we I was in my early 20s, I was in my second year, I just started my second year at university, and we lost our family home and then spent the first few months sofa surfing, and I ended up having to leave university second year to just help the family pull itself together and then lived in temporary accommodation for about 10-11 years, and that was really hard. Um and then we all worked as a family to get enough money for a deposit to buy the home that we have now, and I'm pleased to say that we became mortgage free last October. Congratulations. We're all gonna cheer now, amazing, yeah. Fantastic, but it was 10-11 years, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 29:33

And that some time ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Did you go back to university? I did, I ended up switching to London because I was out of London at the time, and obviously had to redo the year that I had to stop. But it never goes away from you and the impact that it has on a family unit, and even to this day, my mum gets quite anxious about stability, and no matter how much we will say to her, you've got nothing to worry about. But it gives me a particular insight into both the trauma and the experience that so many of our residents go through, and having to have some really hard conversations as to realistically what a council can do in the context of a housing crisis that's engulfed the entirety of this country in such a deep and systemic way.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

So not for the first time, it's three cheers for Matt Pennycook. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I don't think it's but I don't think it's been easy. I don't think it's been it's not been easy, has it? It's not it's not because it was inherited, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 30:40

Well he inherited it and then he changed it a lot, I think, to and reached it.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

And I don't think it's perfect either, as no piece of legislation is, and I think there's a lot of things where plenty of landlords are kind of saying actually this is going to make it harder for a lot of rentals, and if this is not the bad guy kind of landlords, that is the ones who are trying to kind of retain the place in the sector because we need them. Again, this is a phrase a lot of people criticise as work, but lived experience is so important because actually if you have been through something, whether it's you know talking to a veteran in in the military or talking to someone who has actually been homeless, that is got to be something we get better at informing any policy in because it it's listening to people.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

But also I think it really drives the reversal of the trust deficit. I mean, I know in my conversations with residents, they are open to hard conversations. I'm an emphatic believer in enhancing people's understanding of how the process and systems work in order to demonstrate that it's not straightforward and everything requires trade-offs. So when we have discussions relating to estate regeneration, I mean the carpensus estate. Similarly, on the estate ballot, we got 72.3% of a yes vote, which is uh pretty much unheard of. Because we spent the time explaining and explained every single stage of the way, and getting an organisation to adapt to that mode of working and practice involving residents is so important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

So next 7th of May we've got local elections. What do we think? How big a deal is that for London? I mean, there's lots of speculation, isn't there? So much speculation, and actually I don't think it seems to change on a daily basis around all those that are having elections. What's your best guess for what's going to happen in London?

SPEAKER_01 32:31

I believe that it is going to be the most consequential elections probably since the 1970s. Wow, yeah. I think that it is going to require a London wide system to demonstrate its flex and adaptability, and I think it's gonna require all of us as politicians, regardless of which party, um, actually, how do we rebuild trust? I think that it will require civic leaders as well as political leaders and leaders in public sector institutions who are often labelled bureaucrats to all step up and look at what's not gone right because my fear is that if we don't turn this around, it's going to unravel the very social fabric of this great city of London. But I also am someone who is indelibly driven by hope. And at even the lowest of points, when things may feel really dark, always look to the light and chip chip-chip away it.

SPEAKER_04 33:47

We're gonna need a lot of experienced leaders to help those because we're gonna probably end up with some councils with very inexperienced new leaders, and possibly ones that have never been a politician before.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

But actually, it's it leaders in different contexts, Katrina, because you know, leaders with 35 years experience, you've never been in a coalition before. It's a very, very different thing, and that's something certainly in Bristol where I live, we have this kind of very uneasy coalition where quite tiny, tiny margins. We have, you know, a gentleman Tony Dyer, he was my local kind of Green Councillor for a long time and is now the leader of the council. And you know, it is a position that he was absolutely, I don't think, expecting when he became a councillor, but has had to bridge this very uneasy coalition in a very diverse kind of city of of different needs.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

And so I think that's the thing of the context has shifted as well as the I think you make a really interesting point because thinking about my background and my experience in this sector of government, you know, I was only a councillor for four years, but I brought to my expertise a wealth of life experience across different sectors, and being able to bring that to bear in my role as the mayor has been enormously helpful because they don't give you a big chunky book that says this is how you do it. You've got to demonstrate your adaptability, your flex, your foresight, your ability to look round corners, and those are all leadership traits that you don't absorb from a book.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

So you've done your eight years, Roxana, you've done your two terms, you're not the Robert Mugabe of the piece. You're going to step down on May the 7th. What next for Roxana Fias?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

What next for Roxana Fiaz? I am going to take certainly three months off to sleep. Good go. Very sensible. Finish the house painting. And I am very much looking forward to the future. I've got, as you've said, eight years of experience demonstrating delivery leadership, evidence in cracking the codes across the board, have a real interest in and have driven with a new frontier of all things AI, quantum, data centres, and next steps looking at a London-wide national stage. So let's see, well, let's watch this space.

SPEAKER_04 36:06

We think you're gonna be snapped up. Yeah, absolutely. And I know I don't I don't want to lower the tone because we've talked about some really serious things today, and I have to say it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Um we could I think we could probably sit here all afternoon. All we need is a bottle of wine, and we'd be fine for the rest of the afternoon. But I am gonna lower the tone. Um for some of our listeners, this is the exciting bit. What's your karaoke song then, Roxana?

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Oh, do you know what, right? I've got a confession to make. I'm really cramp at karaoke. Everybody is, I know I'm particularly crap because dare I say, I still retain a shyness, and I have had my hand at cat-handed attempts at singing various ABBA songs. And Christina Aguilera's I Am Beautiful, nice, and trying to hit that high note not very well, but I'm more of a smooth listening kind of girl, you know, less of the singing, more of the listening. She's a band. She's a she is in a band.

SPEAKER_04 37:21

Do you know who shady is? Jenny, just about.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

I was gonna say Delasol, very thinking Michael Jackson movie. Oh god, I used to be a huge child fan with my little scrapbook with all these little articles that I'd glue and then just dream about Michael Jackson. Oh, we're gonna go. We're gonna go see the film next to it.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

That's enough. Okay. Someone that we could talk to you all afternoon, as Katrina says. We know you're gonna carry on cracking codes wherever you go. We know that you've done a fantastic job as the mayor of Newham, and we know that you've really challenged the clique that is the London Labour men, and good on you. I am proud to say that I count you as my good friend, and it's been an absolute honour and a privilege to have you here with us this afternoon. So thank you very much indeed, and good luck in all your future endeavours. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you, Roxana. Thank you, Lady. Thanks to all listeners to the Pad Pod, and we'll see you again next time. Bye.