Welcome to the Deeper Roots Podcast: Episode 1

In this debut episode of the Deeper Roots podcast, we discuss our motivations for starting the podcast, our journeys, and the concept of 'deeper roots' in spiritual life and community. We also explore the power of unified effort and sacrifice through a playful debate on whether a hundred men could defeat one gorilla.

00:00 Introduction and Soda Talk
00:26 Welcome to the Deeper Roots Podcast
01:01 Meet the Hosts
01:32 The Meaning of Deeper Roots
02:17 RJ's Perspective on Deeper Roots
03:30 Jason's Perspective on Deeper Roots
05:26 Isaiah's Perspective on Deeper Roots
08:09 How the Podcast Came to Be
08:13 Chris's Journey to Podcasting
09:29 RJ's Journey to Podcasting
13:33 Pastor Jason's Vision for the Podcast
15:39 Isaiah's Vision for Church Content
17:35 The Importance of Community
25:26 Consistency in Faith and Leadership
27:03 The Importance of Vulnerability and Community
32:40 Emotional Expression in Biblical Context
34:30 Redefining Manhood Through Scripture
38:00 The Value of Brotherhood and Mentorship
45:06 The Power of Collective Wisdom
50:08 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Trying to find anything to keep me from soda. Oh, yeah. What's your soda of choice? Man, I don't have one. Sprite. I don't discriminate.

SPEAKER_04: 0:08

Sprite.

SPEAKER_02: 0:09

Oh, Sprite. Sprite number one. There's no other option.

SPEAKER_04: 0:11

Somebody said Sprite tastes like when my foot falls asleep.

UNKNOWN: 0:15

What?

SPEAKER_04: 0:16

So

SPEAKER_02: 0:17

I don't know what that tastes like. We walk through these conversations of getting deeper in things of life and godliness here on this podcast. But I'm going to stop yapping and pass the mic to my co-host here sitting to my left. And I guess we'll go around and introduce ourselves. Sounds good to me. This is Chris Edwards. For those that don't know what I just did, I ran this morning. So I have a towel with me and I look crazy. But we are getting deeper and that's part of my health thing. So now you're part of the family that you know that I need to lose weight. So again, my name is Chris Edwards. Thank you for tuning in today. As Isaiah had already said, he is on the ones and twos, mixing us up, making us sound great. So if we sound horrible, we will blame him and he will be fired. But Deeper Roots, that is the name of our podcast. So on today, I think we should start from the foundation of what is that title? mean to each and every person in the room? As I said already, my name is Chris Edwards. I am gonna start with RJ and let him introduce himself and tell us what does Deeper Roots mean to you?

SPEAKER_04: 1:50

That is me, RJ Mims here. Wasn't prepared to answer that question. We're a very professional podcast. But I'm also trying to lose weight. 27 pounds down as of this morning. Oh, congratulations. Broke through a little three-week plateau. And then finally this week, another three down, so we're good there. Congratulations, man. Thanks. I think the heart of the podcast is a lot of times we meet on Sundays, we meet in other services, but a lot of times we don't get a chance as a family and as brothers to sit down and dig a little deeper and talk about our lives and talk about family and talk about the Word and God And, you know, in a longer form and a longer setting where we can actually have time to talk back and forth and discuss, discuss topics and this type of thing and I think to quote one of the, I might mess it up, but one of the, I was thinking about what my reason would be, and it's my favorite non-biblical author, A.W. Tozer. He said, though my flame may not be big, it is yet real, and there might be some who could light their candle at it. And I think that's like my heart as a pod, is that let's just talk about the Lord. Lord, talk about the things of God, and maybe there's some people that could get something from it.

SPEAKER_01: 3:30

My name is Jason Davis, and I am thankful to be a part of this group. Been something on our heart for a little while, and so the fact that we get a chance to sit down, and a lot of the conversations that we have before service, after service, during the week, we're just putting, pressing record, and and sending them out now. But this has been a part of our culture for years, having men sit down and discuss and talk. And that's not a common thing because I think isolation and individualism is definitely a part of our culture. But I think in the kingdom, it's community, it's togetherness, it's accountability, a lot of the things that we'll discuss. And it gives us a chance to grow together. And when we fall, to have somebody help us get up When we rejoice, have somebody to rejoice with us. So I love the title. I love the fact that it will be called Deeper Roots. Because this goes on behind the surface. A lot of what you see about Christianity happens on the surface. It happens in front of people. It happens with glamour or pomp and circumstance. But I think real growth happens when no one's watching. It's the things that are done in secret, the things that are done behind the scenes. So that's really my hope for this, is that we're kind of pulling back the veil a little bit and letting know what's going on in our hearts deeper conversations, longer conversations than we're able to have in the short settings that we've been used to. So I'm grateful for Isaiah and Chris and RJ and the privilege of being able to talk through this. And I know you guys off the podcast or out of church and just as a testament to what you guys carry, who you are, your love for the Lord, your love for your family. And it's a privilege to be a part of this.

SPEAKER_02: 5:26

I'm Isaiah over here on the ones and twos, setting up everything and making sure, you know, everybody's equalized. Thank you all so much for listening. I think that. For me, deeper roots kind of has a twofold meaning, like to just piggyback on what you guys said, like, yes, it's about community. Yes, it's talking with a group of men, but also my life is getting a little deeper at the same time. Was that a bar? I'm at a very pivotal point in my life where I am now moving from fiance to husband. I'm trying to get from apartment to house. I'm trying to get from, you know, five, less than a hundred figures to over a hundred figures. So there's a lot of transitional moments for me. And that's, I'm kind of building like the start of this family tree. It's kind of like, are my roots deep enough to even hold a family tree? You know, like our, is my walk with God deep enough for me to even care and hold another heart and be a leader in the family? Um, is, are my habits even deep enough to hold more money or more responsibility or more career and all this kind of stuff? And I think that this is, oh, it is the first time I sit with a group of men every week and have conversations around life and godliness. I've never had that before. So all this is very new to me. A little bit of background. I met you guys through the church. I think I moved here about three years ago and I Googled churches near me and then went to a bunch of churches and just visited a ton of them and then landed here at Impact and was kind of like a pew warmer for a little while and then I was you know in the media booth warming up that seat for a little while but never really had a very strong community or got out there and talked

SPEAKER_04: 7:14

just a question did you did you move to the media booth to serve or just to be further away from everybody

SPEAKER_02: 7:23

that's a good question you can hide back there in the media booth for sure no one of the deacons here at the church was like hey you've been coming here for a little while you know what you do and I was like you know I do a little video and live streaming and stuff like that he was like Meet me in the media booth next week. Nice. And that was pretty much how I got there. So some of the first people I ever met were the people in the media and sound team. And just kind of grow from there. And then, but I was still kind of missing out on that community. So there was a few key people in the church that saw I left a little faster. And so they walked a little faster than me and got to me. And then, you know, dominoes led to another. And now I'm here on a podcast yapping with you guys, which I did not think I would end up here. But yeah. Yeah, that's my little yap session on Deeper Roots there. But how did you guys come to the pod? Like, how did you get to this moment? So for me, it was actually a suggestion of one of my wife's friends. She was like, hey, I got an idea for you. Why don't you just start a podcast? You never know who may want to listen. I enjoy conversations we have. And then she even went further and was like, you should also ask some people from your church to discuss a podcast. Because she was like, you never know. Coming from visiting your church and the men in your church, I think the world needs to hear the voices of impact. the men from Impact, and I think that could actually be impactful. So that was the first thought. Then I spoke to Pastor Jason about it, and he said, Podcast had been on his mind, but I let him talk about that. And then ironically, I spoke to RJ, and RJ was like, I'll let him speak on that part of how he felt when I reacted and said something to him. And then, of course, you know the story between us. I spoke to you about it, and all of y'all were kind of in the same lane around the same time. But that is generally how it came to my mind. And I am probably the newest to podcasting, being that I don't listen to podcasts. So it was definitely something far-fetched for me to do. But I was like, hey, I ain't working. Let's do it. Why not? Okay, that's supposed to be. Let's do it. Let's rock out. Perfect timing. What about you, RJ?

SPEAKER_04: 9:29

Yeah. similar you know it's something i do listen to a lot of podcasts uh been into them for a while mainly because i drive a lot and then being in heavy equipment a lot you get bored so a lot of audio bible a lot of podcasting a lot of uh anything to uh occupy my mind so um but yeah it's it's something um that i've thought about off and on for a while but um But I think about a lot of things. I have a lot of ideas that come across my mind, so not all of them can get acted on. But yeah, just similar to what you said and what that person said to you, I think there's something that's happening, the ideas and the thoughts and the things that are discussed in this house led by our pastor. I think it needs to be heard. need to be heard by the world. I don't think it's something, I think it's something fresh. It's not something that, say, the perspective that's spoken. So I think, and then coming from a lot of conversations that we've had, I hadn't, until we got here, I hadn't got the chance to sit down and talk with you guys in super long form. But I know traveling with Pastor Jason, getting to talk and ask all my thousands and thousands of questions over the years. So I, I initially, when I thought, when I, when it first crossed my mind, I just wanted to be asking people questions because I was like, I'm a curious guy. I just want to, you know, I just want to, you know, learn whatever's on my, whatever's on my mind. So, but yeah, when Chris brought up the idea, I had just recently, it had just recently been kind of stirring because I'd recently met with Pastor Jason a couple of times and we had some great conversations, but but they weren't long enough for me. And I had recently been thinking about it, and I was going to bring it up to him the next time we got together. And then I thought about, I said, you know, and I told Chris when he brought it up to me, I was like, I was just thinking about, like, it was just burning. Like, I got to talk to somebody about it. And I told you that I seen you in it. I didn't see you, but now I see you. I was in the back. I was in the back. And the funny thing is, I think we talked about that with, I talked about that with Isaiah, you know, weeks ago, is he's one that I didn't really connect with. We just kind of like mutually looked at each other with like a little head nod, never really had a conversation. It took a while for me to... for me and Chris to kind of connect I feel like I don't know why we just kind of look at each other like two gorillas just what's going on with this guy and then eventually eventually you ever see that thing where two guys walk by and they nod their head then like three months later they shake hands and then like six months later they're brothers you know that's how I feel like with Chris we kept running into each other and then eventually you know coming back here and eventually it just you know without many conversations it just felt like felt like a brother so yeah I thought it was funny that you two who I slowly connected with we wind up in this in this situation but I'm excited I really like you guys

SPEAKER_01: 13:12

That is exactly how men connect in community. We've had conversations for a couple of years. It's been on and off. A couple of people have brought it up. I listen to podcasts off and on. So it's something that I enjoy, mowing the yard, driving down the road, stuff like that. I enjoy listening to them. So we've had conversations a couple of years ago, had a couple of talks about it. But nothing really, you know, it wasn't, to use your phrase, it wasn't really burning like the necessity of it. And I just feel like earlier this year, it just kind of became more, man, this is what we experience, what is natural and normal for us in conversation. I think it's, you know, the old saying is, if I was a fly on the wall, you know, what you could catch. And I kind of feel like that that's a mentality of, you know, allowing others to kind of be a on the wall at some of our conversations. And so once it was kind of more of a burning insistence this year. I just had conversations with Chris, and it was on his heart, and it's just the way God works. You have a conversation with somebody, the Holy Spirit's already been dealing with that person, and then it just feels like God connects things and puts it together in perfect form. So I love what you guys represent. I've said that a couple of times already. I love what you represent and who you are, and I think you have a lot to offer people. You have a Amen. Amen. You're being able to share in this form what God is doing in your heart. And I think that's powerful. Anytime somebody has an exhaust, it always causes them to grow and mature and develop. And I'm excited for the world to be blessed by you guys and for you guys to develop and grow, all of us, as we go through this process. So it just seems like a great form to have the outside of the polished eloquence of scheduled time, scheduled gatherings, this seems much more letting the veil down, having the conversation, letting people in, and growing together. So I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02: 15:39

I think for me, I've been in the church my whole life, born in the baptism water. And one thing for me, I've seen the church not do well at making content or putting more stuff out there beyond Sunday. For those of you who don't know, I work in content. I do a lot of social media. That's my nine to five. I have my own social media platforms that I use, and I constantly consume influencers and creators, and I love and admire their work. And I've always thought to myself, the church is one big content house. And I don't think I'm the only one to come up with that idea. I think God knew that too. That's why he was like, the first thing I'm going to do when I get down there is find some disciples, teach them, and then send them out. It's content. I think he gave Paul the ability to write and make sure that he was a philosopher in some sorts to be like, write these letters and use the communications of the time to get the word out. I think, you know, when God used writing on the tablets or passing word from oral tradition, all this kind of stuff. And he was like, yo, we got some really great content. We need to push it out there. So it's always been in my spirit to kind of, do more content under a church house, a church roof setting. And so getting to know you guys and Chris, I think you said something to me and Pastor Jason said something about, hey, you know, think about this podcast idea. What do you think about it? I was like really getting excited. I was like, yes, do more of this stuff. There's so many opportunities to extend the Sunday experience into the daily life. And I feel like, you know, if the church is really living out the mandate of going to the world and preach the gospel to every creature, that includes content on all the airways. So really happy to have this medium right here of audio with you guys and kind of, you know, share life and godliness. Just listening to what everybody said and what you were elaborating on right then, let's go a little deeper, right? I feel like this podcast debunks and goes beyond what most people would say is performance on Sunday, right? A lot of people feel right now that Christianity is performance-based. And because of that, they blame the pastors and they blame what's going on in the pulpit for how their life is being lived. But it's their personal choice to listen to what the pastor has said or the advice the pastor gives. And I think with this podcast, you have four men that go beyond, even though the pastor's in the room, but you have a pastor for me that... One of the things that drew me into Impact and had me to really resonate and stay, his word was great, but his life was greater. He lived everything he said. From the pulpit, I sing behind the scenes. And that was the part that helped it go deeper. And the behind the scenes or under the surface is what helps you withstand the storms on the surface. And because of Pastor Jason's roots and seeing it from a different lens, I felt that the world needed to see that from impact leadership, the conversations that we have in that little close environment and understanding the storms people went through from impact leadership, but the conversations that withheld them because it was coming from a personal space, people living it, people doing more than just talking about it and just going about their day on Sunday like, yeah, preach, but now I'm going home to watch the game, don't talk to me, don't bother me, but it's nonstop and you can't separate was preached from the life that's lived. And I think for me, deeper roots, that's where it comes from. And that's where it stems. And that was what my friend was trying to explain to me when she said, I think you should do a podcast with the men of impact because there's not a lot of men that one get that because of I'm just going to call it spade to spade. Where I'm from, the church is more manipulative and trying to reproduce more of themselves. Lock the doors. And try to produce more of themselves than produce followers of Christ and disciples. And that was something that impacted. provided the community an impact for me was great. I'm not going to lie. I was waiting and watching for them not to be who they were, to have the energy that they have. I thought it was performance. But now I've been here going on seven years and been behind the scenes, been on the peaks and in the valleys, and they have all remained the same, from Deacon Winfred to Miss Karen to Sarah, Pastor Kevin. No matter what I've seen them face, anybody that was a foundational pillar for when I came into this church has always had the same mentality and view about God, regardless of what they were facing so much. So you don't even know what they're going through sometimes. Like somebody literally has to tell you this is what they're going through for you to be like, oh, I would have never known that because they just remain constant. And I just feel that is part of their roots being truly deep. in the word and it started with the leadership and the life they chose to live. That's something I had to learn coming to Impact is I'm not as consistent in community as I thought I was, but I really enjoyed it for myself. You know what I mean? And it was like, but are you giving what you're getting? So I was getting text messages or calls from people at Impact Church and being like, hey, how you doing? What's going on? Where you at? Why you walking out so fast? All this kind of stuff. And then I kind of got used to it But then I was like, like the other past Sunday, my fiance got on to me and she was like, you know, you kind of talk to the same people and you're not really getting out that she wants me to outside more and like talking to people. Cause I'll just be inside editing all the time. She was in the second row. She was, she was, and I was in the media booth, but she, she is, she is a Jesus Christ extrovert. Like she is go out there and get it. And so when I was looking in the Bible, I see they did the same thing. They didn't just talk to themselves. The disciples didn't just talk. They went out and sought people. And so it's like, now that I'm in this community, now that I enjoy the benefits of it, am I now doing the outreach myself and getting out there? And I've been a little convicted about it. So last Sunday, I met a guy that I've been giving head nods to for quite some time. And we talked for like a good 30-ish minutes after service. And it felt so good to be like, not only am I a part of the community, but I'm furthering

SPEAKER_01: 22:13

it. And

SPEAKER_02: 22:14

so it's like, I will say this podcast, for those of you who don't know, a little insight, this is not our first episode. We've been kind of doing some trial practice to get there. But I've gained so much from just yapping with y'all once a week. And I'm like, oh, now that I have this new light in my life, I can be a light bearer of community a little better because it's been modeled for me. And now I want to kind of take up my cross and do the same thing. So,

SPEAKER_01: 22:38

so good. Yeah. Some things, not to make it too theological, but some things that have been on my heart, like scripturally and biblically, is Hebrews 7 talks about that Jesus was after the order of Melchizedek and talks about the fact that he was a priest, but he was also a king. Both of those things resided in the same person, meaning to back what Chris was referring to, is that with the tribe of Levi, which was another form or order of priesthood, that That was their only responsibility, was to be a priest. And so it was kind of a monastic-type feel. They're separated off for the work of the Lord. But Melchizedek was different. There was a link between his... There was no divide between secular and spiritual. There was no, this is my spiritual part of my life, and this is my secular part of life. And that's what Jesus... I think that's what he was communicating for healing on the Sabbath. And then... Going into different areas, it wasn't a segment. His relationship with the Father was not a segmented part of his life. It was his life. And hopefully this podcast and hopefully our relationships shine through through these conversations is that Christianity was never supposed to be held to a Sunday morning at 10 o'clock. It's a lifestyle. It's a 24-7. And that shouldn't be an intimidating feel. That should actually be a freeing thought because you don't have to have two different images that you're keeping up. You don't have to have a church image and then a home image and then a work image of having to change who you are based on the situation that you're in. When the gospel is looking in on the life of Jesus, some of them, Matthew would call it the kingdom of heaven is what Jesus brought to the earth. And others, Luke would call it the kingdom of God. But John didn't use the word kingdom at all. He just used a Greek word, zoe, which just means life. It is abundant life. And that's, I believe, what Jesus was bringing. That was the kingdom was to let us know you could live life and it not have to be spiritual and secular. It's just all connected. It's all one in the same. So when we go to our job, when we go to a sports game, all of what we do, if we do it with the right heart as unto the Lord, all of it is spiritual and it honors the Lord. So it's not a turning off who I am after Sundays or turning back on who I am when I'm having conversation with you guys or you the same way. It's just, this is who I am. This is what the Lord is showing me. If it's a Friday night or Saturday or Monday, we're having the conversations about the things of God because this life is a beautiful place to reside and stay, and it doesn't have to be turned off or on. So my last statement, I go back to what Chris said about the consistency of the people that he's interacted with. Please don't feel like what he means by that is perfection. There is so much so much room for growth in myself and so many others that are a part of leadership. But the word that he used is consistent, not perfect. meaning that the attempt is to remain the same in every situation that you are. And that means being humble enough to apologize, being humble enough to confess your faults one to another, admitting where you messed up. And this will be my first of many shout-outs to one of the most incredible men that I have ever known and my father. What a beautiful testimony I had to grow up in a house where he preached and then he came home and raised kids, the same mentality that he had when he was in the pulpit. And you guys know him today. If you run into him at a restaurant or you run into him with a chainsaw, he's just the same person. So anything that we get a chance to do and be is because we've had it modeled well. He set up a great picture of what ministry and ministry families ought to be. It wasn't one thing on Sunday and another thing on Monday.

SPEAKER_04: 27:06

And I think that's why with that vulnerability is so important and community is so important because from afar, it may seem like nobody has the same issues you have.

UNKNOWN: 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 27:23

And I'd been through that, too, because I was like, all the friends that I made had been in church all their life and had parents that raised them a certain type of way. And I was like, these people do not know the struggles. that I'm dealing with. And some of that might be true. They have different struggles than maybe I do. But I think that's why it's important to connect with people away from church and talk to them about their lives and talk to them about their wives and their families and that type of thing. And then you see how the Lord is just leading them just like He is you and protecting them and helping them get through their own issues. So I think very, very important and something you talked about here, Reese, vulnerability on your own struggles and issues and problems that, you know, in this life that we're walking with the Lord, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

I think that's why the enemy fights it so much is because he knows God I think that's why division is one of his tactics and tools that he uses, because division creates isolationism, it creates individualism, and the things that grow in the dark, the funguses that grow in the dark, sorry for the gory illustration, but the things that without light, they continue to multiply, continue to reproduce. That's why I think vulnerability and openness, putting things in the light, putting things Please don't hear that our openness is wallowing in sin or celebrating sin. We bring things to the light to be healed, to be comforted, to be covered, but also to be restored, to see God's grace ministered there. Yes. When you hide it, when we put it in the back, it grows, it multiplies, it expands. It comes to a point where you're not able to control it anymore. But the honesty of what RJ just mentioned, the honesty of each one of us have inclinations, have vulnerabilities, have weaknesses. Instead of acting like they don't exist, putting those out, making them knowledge for those around us so that we can be We can be prayerful for one another, encourage one another, provoke each other, as Hebrew says, to love and good works. I think that's where iron sharpens iron, continues to make and develop, see us transformed in community and relationship. I can't make this

SPEAKER_02: 30:10

up if I wanted to. I know I've been hanging around these guys too long. What's the scripture I pulled up? James 5.16, confess your faults one to another and pray for one another that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayers of the righteous avail of much. Amen. Which is the exact same thing he just said and said it much better than I probably would have. But I think that's one of the things too for this is the vulnerability piece. The church has... We're supposed to confess our sins one to another, but I feel that the church has created an atmosphere that you don't want to confess to your brothers and sisters. You want to perform in front of your brothers and sisters because typically when people have been vulnerable in the church, it gets blasted on social content and social content on social media or they're looking at you and they're finding fault with you instead of trying to pray for you and find healing. Now they just want to talk about you and spread your business all over the place and it's created a sense of fear and resentment or running from what the church was really there for and that community, which is why this community, as I go back to what I was saying earlier, seeing them do those things, be like, hey, this is a situation I was going through and using their situations to be like, hey, you're not by yourself, like you said, RJ. And I think men have the biggest struggle with that of sharing their faults to another man because I should have it together. I should be able to withstand it. I'm even going to talk about even being emotional. and letting the feeling of God just freeing you in a service, like you'll even fight your tears, and I know I will, in a service that's overwhelming and God is just trying to break you free of something. And I'll be sitting there like, nope, not today. I ain't going to cry. I got it. You got me. I'm good. But I'm not going to shed a single tear because now I'm not a man no more. But instead of it being about me being a man, the importance is I have the presence of God in that moment. But instead of receiving it, I'm trying to fight it because I'm still worried about my community and what they may say or the people in the pews that's probably going through something 10 times worse than I am or need it more than I do. But I'm worried about them judging me because I'm sitting here crying. Oh, he weak. Oh, his life is jacked up. He probably done did something to his wife or kids. That man made bad decisions. Like, why is he crying? Like, he should have it together. But instead of just like, you know what, God, I don't care what they think. Yeah. I'm just going to go ahead. And if they do see me crying, maybe there is a brother that comes and put his hand on my shoulder and actually starts praying instead of judging. And this is why the saints got to read their Bible.

SPEAKER_01: 32:43

Because

SPEAKER_02: 32:43

when you start reading your Bible, you realize every man in the Bible was emotional publicly.

SPEAKER_01: 32:48

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02: 32:49

All of them.

SPEAKER_01: 32:49

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02: 32:50

Jeremiah, they called him the lament. He cried all the time. David, he wrote the Psalms. Have you read the Psalms? That is some emotional stuff right there. Like there was so much. publicly the out display of emotions and not even from like these patriarchs in the bible but from Jesus and God himself. Even Jesus was, Jesus wept for, help me out, Lazarus. And he was like, man, it was a public display of emotions at all times. And I don't know when we decided, well, I do know it was the devil. He came through and he was like, actually hide your emotions. Actually don't tell anybody. But if we were all epistles and writing these gospels or writing our books, or we had somebody displaying our lives in some kind of written form like they did in the Bible, they would see so much life happening that wasn't just a form of godliness. You know what I mean? And I think that's, I just praise God for putting that in the Bible because if you want to get real theological, these other books are, they don't put all that emotion in their holy books, holy quote-unquote stuff. They show a more perfected version of their gods, a perfected version of their prophets. But God was like, no, this is important for you to have community and be able to identify. I did it. I put on flesh to identify with you. And that's just so incredible to me.

SPEAKER_01: 34:11

It's a beautiful thing you mentioned. So a theological way of describing what Jesus did when he came in flesh, in incarnation, is he showed us what a human was supposed to be. What is a new way to be human? And this is no shot at our culture, but there are so many things in our culture, especially around manhood, that is exactly the opposite of what a healthy man ought to be, and it is celebrated, and it is valued. Going back to the closing The brashness, the demanding, that is celebrated in manhood. If you release, if you exhaust emotions, you share emotions, you express emotions, that's considered devalued. And if you hold it in, it's valuable. And I think that's why biblical, like understanding scripture, understanding who Christ is, allowing the Holy Spirit to break down walls in our own life, it really shows us what is a healthy way to live. I think about my grandfather, like on my mom's side, my maternal grandfather, like he was the quietest, like, I don't know, he just never talked, never raised his voice. But I remember a time or two, and I don't mean this in a bad way, I just, he grew up in a, he was a farmer. He grew up in a generation where that was what manhood was, is you didn't share. And I remember, even at a young boy, I remember seeing him reach a place where his lid came off, where he'd been holding in feelings and emotions for so long, and he exploded. And I look back on it. If he would have had consistent exhaust, it wouldn't have filled up like it did, because all of us have, God made us as humans to have emotions. And if we don't let them out, it is going to grow, you know, build up to the point where they come out. And a lot of our expressions as men, it comes out in anger. It comes out in seeking thrill and satisfaction in other places instead of being okay with, not just being okay with, but looking for and celebrating the fact I'm walking as a healthy man, even if culture tells me this shouldn't be something that I do or this isn't a valuable place in life. It just really allows us to see, and you're exactly right, Jesus did it, The people of Scripture did it. Powerful thing about Scriptures in general is the fact that we see the weakness of our heroes. My last point, Chris, this is why I think this is so important, because we have this image as men. We are supposed to be... all-knowing. We are supposed to be all-powerful. We are supposed to have the answers when our wives ask us, when our kids ask us, when sitting in church, people are supposed to look to us as leaders to have all the answers. And that's one of the things that I think Jesus helps take the pressure off us. We don't have to be the heroes of our own story. We don't have to be right. We don't have to have all the answers. We just have to know that we have connection and relationship with him, and he does. And actually in our humility is where our strength comes from because we trust him.

SPEAKER_04: 37:48

There might eventually be some crying on this podcast. For sure. We may have already had some happen in

SPEAKER_02: 37:57

the past. I'll tell y'all, I cried. One of our trial episodes, it hit me so hard because we were talking about mentorship, which is another aspect of community. And being like, you don't mentor. Mentees should go seek mentors. And it hit me. I was like, yo, I don't seek relationships like I should. And in that moment, it just built up. I started crying. I went home. My fiance was like, how was the pod? I said, I cried. She was so happy.

SPEAKER_00: 38:26

She was like, you are good. It's

SPEAKER_04: 38:32

hard to, it is, it's hard to do. It's a hard thing to do. And like he said, um, but I've, I've never seen more men cry in one place than, uh, services that impact, specifically baptism services. You ever look around in the baptism service? And I mean, obviously there's some incredible things going on, but you look around and all the men are just Boo-hooing. And it's special because there's always these family moments. There's been a lot of young people. And you just see these kids and these young adults. And then you see these men that are surrounding them, this like... uh, doesn't, doesn't care, uh, care if they're crying or care. And this, that's for men that that's naturally very, uh, very difficult to express. But when you see some of the things that we've seen, I mean, it gets, it gets away. It gets a little bit easier to express, uh, when you start thinking about what God's done in your life and in your family's life and in other people in the church. And it's, it's very encouraging. Like, uh, Pastor Jason brought up his grandpa. I started thinking about mine and kind of daydreamed off for just a second. I still heard what you said. I got you. But they were both very quiet people. I was thinking like my dad's dad, I mean, to this day, he's my only living grandparent, but he lives off in the woods by himself and doesn't talk to nobody unless they come see him. And then my other grandpa, he had a TV shop on the corner of Randleman Road here in Greensboro, North Carolina, in the hood. And he had a little TV shop, and he stayed there. all the time. He was either there or he was sitting, he had one seat, a lazy boy recliner. I don't know if it was lazy boy, but it was the style, the old real cushiony ones that was, you just sink melted in. Cause he was probably, you know, six, three, three 50, you know, big, big guy. So when you sat in his seat, you just kind of melted in it, but both, both very quiet guys. And I remember I remember after he passed my grandma told us was telling us how much he cared for all those grandkids they had like 30 some like grandkids and I remember her telling us how telling us several times she mentioned that he would cry and thinking about like, cause he, he would always try to come to games. Can't make everybody's game. You got 30 grandkids, but I mean, they drove an hour several times to come see me play little league, little league games, but just hearing her say, and I'm like, man, I never got to see that. Like got to see him get emotional and that type of thing. And I was like, man, I wish, I wish people, they will feel more comfortable to wear that and not just, not just do it in their own home, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 41:53

Yeah, no, I agree. It is difficult for me to show my emotions, me personally, because sometimes I feel like I know that there's strength in crying or tears or confession, that kind of stuff. I think it's a pride thing for me personally. It's like, I just need to deal with this. I need time to think on my own. I need my cabin in the woods to like sit down and gather all my thoughts together and get it out there. And, you know, what Pastor Jason was saying earlier, we don't know everything. And I think in my youth and my growing up, I don't know how I learned it. I don't know who taught me, but it was just like if I pick myself up on my bootstraps enough times, I'll be able to walk. And then I read the Bible and he was like, no, a threefold cord is not easily broken. You do need a friend. David did need Jonathan. Paul needed Silas. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and the personhood of God, Yahweh, they all need each other. And it's like, I think it's something that we're a part of our sin nature to be isolated. But when I read The Bible, one of my favorite groups in the Bible that I wish was written more about them was the David's Mighty Men. I think they would rival Wakanda to this day. You know what I mean? They just seem so cool. And I was like, I am praying for my mighty men, like the group of people around me that I can band together and show all these emotions but still look strong, you know? Like be in service, be able to give God glory and still carry a Glock. Like I'm looking for them type of Christians.

SPEAKER_04: 43:33

Hey, man, you've been doing them blindfold deadlifts. You see them. You're going

SPEAKER_02: 43:43

to be all right. I need to take some. enhancements because my friends are strong. I don't know if you saw their blind dead list, but they was pulling like 400 pounds and I was struggling with my little 350. And I'm like, goodness gracious, I need to start a church weightlifting club. There we go. There we

SPEAKER_04: 44:04

go. That's the new facility. Can we throw in a gym somewhere? Beside the basketball gym, we need an attached weight room. And supplement store.

SPEAKER_01: 44:21

Oh, come on. Hey now. You know. Hey now. For those who need it. Got me. A little boost. Speaking of supplement store, let's... I was thinking as you were talking, like, with Lazarus, Jesus said, Lazarus, come forth, going back to the John 11 reference that you made. Lazarus, come forth. But then he looked at the disciples after he was raised, and he looked at the Mm-hmm. And the endeavor of the disciples. He told the disciples to loose him and let him go. So we've been talking a lot about emotions. But also, I think this is going back to the pride point that you mentioned of individualism. I think there is a component of understanding that every car has blind spots and every individual has blind spots. Yeah. And you need a brother to point you out. Hey, this is a spot you don't see very well. And just because you referenced it, and all of us have been there and are there, you know, Scripture talks about the... the pride of being a novice, of not knowing what you don't know. And so there's all of a sudden this pride that comes with, I got this thing figured out, but you have no life experience that tells you, you don't really have it as figured out as much as you do. And I think nobody knows those blind spots unless somebody is able to be in your world. Hey, you're going to back up over this tricycle unless you notice somebody is in the back. that's pointing you in the direction, hey, avoid this trap. And are there some things that you're just going to walk through, even at the advice of others, and you're going to choose to do even what you want, myself even included, you're going to choose to do and you're going to learn through experience. And I'm thankful for the teacher of experience, but a lot of us would not have some of the scars and wounds that we had if we also listened to the voice of those who are a little bit further along in the journey. And I think that's the beauty of discipleship and transformation that comes from trusting somebody else with your blind spots. We see this in military. We see this in sports. We see this, and it's okay to do it in those worlds. That brotherhood is okay. And I feel like the Holy Spirit is doing something powerful in the brotherhood in the kingdom where it's now okay to let somebody have your back. It's now okay to let somebody correct you. it's okay to receive feedback from somebody and not be damaged and hurt by it, uh, to know that they have your, they have good intentions about things that, uh, being a part of your world.

SPEAKER_04: 47:18

Yeah. I remember it reminded me of one of the first, uh, early when I came to, uh, the church in Reidsville, I remember pastor Mike, uh, talking about, um, you know, the world says experience is the best teacher. And I remember him saying, uh, wisdom is a better teacher because you don't have to, you don't have to experience. Now experience is a stronger, more, uh, I don't know if stronger is the right word, but you won't forget it. I tell you that. Um, but I would rather our experiences be able to, uh, stop people from having to go through the same thing. things, things that we went through and having, having other brothers that are able to say, Hey, Hey, Hey, I, I went down that road, uh, of ambition, or I went down that road of, of allowing lust thoughts to control me. I letting social media take over my life. Whatever the case may be, there's a thousand different ways that could go. But unless you have other people, because we all had our own journeys, but when four people or more are able to get together and you talk about the things you're dealing with, there's a good chance that somebody around has something that can help you out.

SPEAKER_02: 48:42

Exactly. Just like a hundred men can beat one gorilla. That's

SPEAKER_01: 48:47

foolishness, man.

SPEAKER_00: 48:48

Come

SPEAKER_02: 48:50

on, man. A hundred men could beat one gorilla.

SPEAKER_04: 48:53

Gorillas are four foot six. I mean, they're tiny. They're like 400, 500 pounds. What gorilla have you seen? Short-wise. I mean, height-wise. They do have long arms and thick skin and no neck, so chokes and guillotines are out of the picture. No joint manipulation because I doubt you could arm bar a gorilla.

SPEAKER_01: 49:19

There's a lot of thought being put into

SPEAKER_02: 49:23

this. For those who don't know, this is a huge thing on social media right now of whether 100 men could beat one gorilla. And so there are graphs and charts and professors going in if this is possible. This

SPEAKER_04: 49:34

is good. This fits with our conversation. Because 100 men one by one could not beat a gorilla. But 100 men with a plan and sacrifice could beat a

SPEAKER_02: 49:50

gorilla. Absolutely. I think if 100 Isaiah's took on a gorilla, at

SPEAKER_04: 49:53

least 30 of them surviving. Ooh, I like that. 70 Isaiahs. And you're willing for

SPEAKER_02: 50:01

70 of you. Yeah. Hey, GGs, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, for the greater good. Yeah. This is where we should end the podcast. And on that note, thank you for tuning in today to episode one of Deeper. We

SPEAKER_04: 50:16

ended on 100 gorillas?

SPEAKER_01: 50:20

No, we ended on. Pastor Jason, can you give us. If it's a unified, mobilized effort. Yes. 100 gorillas. I mean. No, no, no. A hundred men can take one gorilla if it's unified. They're all on the same page. And someone is willing to sacrifice, lay down their lives to be a part of it. I agree with you. I think 100 men, if they're of the right mindset, yes. One can put 1,000 to flight. Two can put 10,000 to flight. Great. And we need all

SPEAKER_02: 50:52

y'all listening to like, share, and subscribe to the podcast. Thank you for listening to Deep Roots Podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 50:57

Appreciate

SPEAKER_02: 50:58

it. We'll see y'all next time.