Deeper Roots Podcast
We explore what it means to live a life rooted in Christ—beyond Sunday sermons.
Whether you’re planted in the church or still searching for your soil, Deeper Roots is your weekly reminder to stay grounded, ask better questions, and grow in the direction God is calling you.
Deeper Roots Podcast
Pastor vs Aliens, Is Jesus on Every Page of The Bible, Control issues
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The moment somebody says “aliens,” a lot of people either panic or laugh and keep scrolling. We did neither. We took the question seriously enough to ask what it would mean for Christian theology, spiritual warfare, and the unseen realm, but we also kept our feet on the ground: what do we actually know, what’s speculation, and why doesn’t any of this dethrone God’s authority?
Before we got there, we shared real life updates that hit home: prom season as a parenting moment, the shock of college costs, and a powerful scholarship testimony that reframes rejection, prayer, and persistence. We also talked wedding prep, community, and a wild content-creation story that turned a simple post into a free suit deal, plus the honest tension of wants vs needs when you’re trying to celebrate well without losing wisdom.
Then a listener’s fan mail sets the direction for the heart of the conversation: does every Bible passage reveal God’s character and point to Jesus, or are some texts simply examples, warnings, and consequences? We unpack descriptive vs prescriptive passages, why context matters, and how the full counsel of Scripture leads toward Christ without forcing the same takeaway from every verse. From there we move into leadership and parenting pressure: guilt, patience, self-control, stewardship, and learning to trust that God gives the increase when the people you love make choices you can’t control.
If this helped you think with more clarity and peace, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review. Then send us your question through fan mail so we can keep the conversation going.
Welcome Back To The Table
SPEAKER_02This is the Deeper Roots Podcast. We are four hosts talking about a range of topics from life to godliness. I got Chris, RJ, Pastor Jason, and myself, Zay. I'm gonna have to close my eyes for a couple episodes.
SPEAKER_06Go counterclockwise now. Chris. Really? You did it right. Yeah, you did it. You did it right. You did it the same way. We're just sitting in a different in the opposite direction.
SPEAKER_02Anticlockwise. Okay. Oh, that is right. You could say anti. Anti. It makes it. Counterweight. That was weird. Anti-clockwise. Oh man. It feels like it's been a while since we've all been at the table together. I feel like I got my older brothers are back. You know? It's a beautiful thing, man. It's a beautiful thing. What's going on in life, man? We always gotta throw out like the older part. I mean, I would be the younger brother out of all of us, right? You are. I give younger brother energy, you know. I accept that. Yeah. You know, Pastor Jason, are you the oldest? No, I'm no. You're the oldest brother. I'm no. Wow. Okay, so you're the second oldest that gives oldest energy. Wow. Maturity. Maturity. Maturity. What?
SPEAKER_05That is the first time I heard that. But it is true for this table, though. It is true. I'm over here in a sport coat and got gray hair in
Prom Night And Parenting Moments
SPEAKER_05my beard.
SPEAKER_02So man, what's happening in life, Chris? Where you been? How you doing?
SPEAKER_01Work, but other than that, I've been great. Um family. Just doing some family things. Seems like the weekends can't stop. My daughter had prom just the other day.
SPEAKER_00And whoo.
SPEAKER_02Prom sees. Now, are you one of those prom people that like rent the balloons, rent the stage, take out the driveway, put a you know? So we we're gonna go to find this one of those, right?
SPEAKER_01I'm not. But when you get married, your wife, you become one with someone else. And so the other half is indeed that kind of person. Um, so we did have a prom send-off for, which is which was was pretty big. I kind of appreciate the fact that she did do that, being that we have two little ones that kind of take up a lot of attention right now. So I think it was good to put the spotlight back on my oldest Malaya. Um, but yeah, she had prom, but I am so thankful that I did not have to do the check a man or check a young boyfriend feel this uh this year. Um she's been so focused on school and her work and everything, and then some of it's kind of our fault having to watch the kids. But she's been doing such a great job with school and stuff like that. So I didn't even have to worry about a young man coming to my house. I got to drop drop her off myself.
SPEAKER_03So there we go.
SPEAKER_01I'm good there. No shotgun pictures will you find.
SPEAKER_02Um, but well, you said this was like the first year you did it. So in the previous times, you have.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no, no. Well, I have an older son, so I ain't have to worry about him either. So
College Costs And A Scholarship Testimony
SPEAKER_01I'm good. But since I am talking about Malay and we're talking about life, I think the last time I talked to y'all talking about she needed she was going to school and how much it costs. That check, that first check that was coming out. You guys were uh college shopping. Right. So she decided official spelman, and the first check was supposed to be what $18,000 that you have to send to them before they even give you your orientation and information to make sure that you're coming. And you can hold on, hold on, hold on, rewind, rewind.
SPEAKER_00That's a really big number just to throw out and like keep going. Just to get your orientation.
SPEAKER_01You don't get that stuff until you pay the 18. And then after the 18, they put you on a payment plan, unless you can just pay the whole thing up front. Oh my god. And so um that's just for the first semester. Like, that ain't the whole year, that's just the 18 up front for that time. What kind of reverse signing bonus is this? Well, a quick testimony. Um so, you know, we have been talking about that. We prayed about all that and everything, trying to figure out how that we were gonna afford this, you know, about 60 something thousand thousand a year. Um, and Malay was putting in scholarships and she kept getting rejected into the forefront in the beginning. But I was like, but you know, this will make a great testimony or a great chance for her to be involved in prayer and see God work for her own life. And um just last week she received a scholarship for over 40 something thousand. So pretty much she had other scholarships, but she pretty much received, and it's for every year. Come on, like it's not just the first year, it's stuff, but she gets that amount like over 40,000 per year to take care of school. So pretty much her school is covered. Wow, and we don't have to worry about it. So I gotta thank God for that. Definitely proud of her. She put in the work, she looked for the scholarship, she was questioning us every two seconds about certain things, but God started coming through, and after that, like I she's just been racking up here lately. So um, but definitely proud of her. So I have to give her a shout out. Yeah, that's awesome, man. Congratulations. Out ow.
SPEAKER_02That's good stuff. Man, I'm paying my student loans off right now. It is incredible.
SPEAKER_04What are what are her like she was ranked like second or third in the class? What did she end up doing?
SPEAKER_01She was six out of what 490 students or 499 students at uh so um but that was last year. I don't know what her new ranking is. Gotcha. But I think I shared that the GPA of the school she's going to average the GPA is 4.08 of the incoming class. And I think hers is like a 4. She's gonna be mad because I'm about to mess it up. He's the 4.67 or 4.76, I think her GPA is in. Yeah. Maleia, that's awesome. Congratulations. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_06That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Man. Well, anybody else want to share their life or just living the blessing? Mine. I don't know.
SPEAKER_05Pastor Jason, what you do, they give scholarships for weddings?
SPEAKER_06Well, you have a I don't know if you've mentioned the testimony about your suits, and then what you're trying to maybe uh
Wedding Suit Blessing And Watch Dreams
SPEAKER_06fill in the blank there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay. So um, you all know me and my wife got a little channel, been posting a whole lot. And so it's been my task. I think I mentioned this in pods, pods previous that uh my suit I needed to go look for and find a suit. Uh, so I started getting like suit swatches to come in to figure out you know what color green. I'm gonna have a green sage kind of suit on. Um, so I just started seeding different swatches and ordering them, they come to the house for free. And so we were like, let's just make content out of it. So we made a video about going through our suit swatches and seeing which one looks good and all this kind of stuff. Posted a video, tagged the company, didn't think anything about it. Get a DM like a week later, and they were like, Hey, we saw your video. That was really cool. We'll send you your suit for free.
SPEAKER_00Come on. And I was like, yo, that's incredible.
SPEAKER_02So they they send the suit. Um, we end up um talking some more, and I'm talking to them. They're like, Well, how many groomsmen do you have? And I was like, I got like, you know, eight or so. And they're like, let's strike a deal so that you make us about four videos and the photos from your wedding day, and we'll outfit you and all your groomsmen head to toe for free. Hey, that's a brother. Hey, brother, man, I was like, wow, that is that is incredible. I like just posting on the internet, and this this came in. Not playing, not something we seeded or looked for or anything like that, but I was just like, whoa.
SPEAKER_01Listen, that's that's awesome, brother. And and I must ask this question real quick, uh, just in case, since you're a content creator, uh, you know, I would mind another house or so. You want to just go out here and we tag some pictures and put it out there? You never know.
SPEAKER_02I mean, while we're working on it, I ain't I ain't the plug yet, but I'm trying to be. I'm trying to get there. And so uh, yeah, it's just kind of what's happening right now. It's a blessing. My wife is like, well, can we tag my wedding dress, the bridesmaid dresses, the flower companies, and just kind of see what's out there as we're watching. Nav. Oh, yes. So I'm looking for a watch. Since I saved money on suits, I'm trying to convince my wife that I can spend like 6x on a watch. The math works perfectly. Um, and so I went with uh actually one of the church members here. We went out watched off. He's a watch guy too. So we went out and looked at some watches and stuff like that. And I found the watch that I want. Not the one I need.
SPEAKER_06Well, you're not going for a need.
SPEAKER_02Right. It's my it's the wedding day. Like she gets to have a dress. At the very least, she'll get my first like he gets to have a dress. Right. My first, you know, luxury watch entry. So it's called a Nomos Glassute.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02From Germany, in-house movement, world timer, which means no matter what content, I'm gonna just hit a little button, the whole watch face changes to the country I'm in.
SPEAKER_06What?
SPEAKER_02One in the navy blue. Look, I'll show you right now.
SPEAKER_06Was that the blue dial?
SPEAKER_02This one right here. I gotta save as a tab on my thing. I'm just praying every time I flip to my tabs, like, Lord bless me. But uh, yeah, that's the watch I want. And so we're gonna see if it uh if happens. I did tag the watch people, they did DM me and said, Hey, we saw your video. Uh uh. I was like, I'm gonna try my luck. And I was like, Can I get it for free? And they were like, You can visit our store in New York if you want. No way of saying no. So I I did I am getting some no's here, but trying to, man. I'm trying to find a good watch for the wedding, man. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_04Can you like tell like what the price is of that?
SPEAKER_02Is that it's about uh five thousand seven hundred and six dollars and thirty-six cents. Wow. But I feel like it's equivalent to a suit and shoes. Come on, man.
SPEAKER_01Hey, where's that store at? Because I saw you were in the store, because I was like, where is this store? I didn't recognize that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was in um oh I'm blanketing, uh, Raleigh. Oh went up to Raleigh, and they have like one of their AD stores that kind of have everything all there. So I got to see a lot of the watches that I've been like looking at on TikTok in person and like seeing like uh other world timers or speedmasters and Rolexes and all that kind of stuff, and actually try on a couple ones. So it was it was a really cool like experience, like a little field trip to go out there. And the couple that went with us from the church are just super cool. And it's like it's fun for me and my wife to like get connected to other married people and then go out and just hang out, which is new for us. We don't really, I don't really know how to hang out with other married people yet, and we're just kind of like, we'll see what happens if it works, or the personalities and all kinds of stuff, but it was so much fun um just being with them. So community plug, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Congratulations, scholarships, weddings, taken care of, watches awesome. I love it. What's going on in your world?
Building A Business And Marketing Ideas
SPEAKER_04Come on, yes, I love it.
SPEAKER_06What's going on in your world, man? I don't know, I don't even know. I don't even know. What's so much going on?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, got the business, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. We're getting a lot more calls there, clear flow septic systems. There you go. Um installs, repairs, yeah, you know, if anybody needs any. Uh, but yeah, we've been getting a lot more calls there, and a lot of uh did our first couple repair jobs last couple weeks and nice, got a few bids out for um new construction stuff. So uh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, last week uh me and RJ had lunch and we were just kind of sitting and talking like ideas and things to do like that. So it's been really cool uh working with RJ and kind of entering this kind of like new world of how do you market you know a company like this? So I'm I'm super excited, and you're already got some motion already. So, brother, you're all rocking it, man.
SPEAKER_06Rocking he's gonna he's gonna help me uh send it to the moon. Uh there you go, send it to outer space.
SPEAKER_02Speaking of outer space, segue, uh Pastor,
Aliens, Angels, And Theology Boundaries
SPEAKER_02have you? I definitely wanted to get to that. Pastor, you've gotten any calls from any government bodies. No, I have not lately. You know, if you did, would you tell us? Yes. Without a doubt. Because the word on the street is the government is calling certain pastors to let them know that information will be dropping soon about aliens, and they want the Christians, the pastors, to be prepared because that might mess up your theology a little bit. And they are in briefings about these aliens that are supposed to be released later this month.
SPEAKER_06Do you think you want to talk to the church about this?
SPEAKER_04Or no, it doesn't mess with my theology at all.
SPEAKER_06It does it. It's is that well, uh I thought that maybe they were calling the pastors for help.
SPEAKER_02No, I think well, we don't know. A lot of pastors are hush-hush about it and who got chosen, you know. But the running theory is they have to prepare the the biggest con like religion in America because if aliens are real, what does that make like angels, demons, Jesus, miracles, timelines, histories, and all that kind of stuff? Like, how does that mess with the thing? Or they want to corroborate with the church to make these more concrete and like theological like the aliens are here.
SPEAKER_06Either my my best two guesses talk about it are these are not beings or flying objects from other planets, but yet more than likely interdimensional uh principalities, powers, maybe angelic beatings, maybe fallen angels. I don't know. I I think it's more than likely not from Mars or Pluto or Art of Galaxies, it's either this or super military uh uh flying objects that they have not told the public about yet.
SPEAKER_02They gotta air it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. There's they're trying to make us think they're aliens, but yet do you not think they have uh non-aerodynamic vehicles that can fly at the speed of light? Break all the laws of physics. How do you think they got old president swooped them up in the second? Yeah. They just gone straight in there, straight out. We are the aliens.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's a theory. That's a theory. Maybe we are the aliens.
SPEAKER_04We are ran by lizard people. Let me just add this in because I feel like I am the anti-10 fool hat wearing person on this podcast. I just feel like I I do know there was a I there was a pastor who made the statement, but then there was also a senator who came out and said that it was false. Like he made that up. He did not.
SPEAKER_06Are you calling Perry Stone a false?
SPEAKER_04No, I thought there was a senator who said she was the uh lead on this responsibility and she knew nothing about the meeting. I mean, that's probably what you would say if you would want to hide it. I get it. But it also feels weird that one pastor was told not to say it and he gets on TV and says it or on his stream. That that feels a little weird. Yeah. Um, so I I just feel like I needed to add that in to know that we're not sure that the meeting actually happened. This is there are two different um reports that are being said.
SPEAKER_06Either way. Something. Now I hear you. Maybe the pastors have not been called in brief yet. Yet. Maybe not. Right. And maybe they're not planning on it. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04But what we do know is that there if that has not happened and he did that.
SPEAKER_05Like there needs to be a wellness check. Like, like that, we can't just breeze over that. Like, maybe it did not happen. If it did not happen and he did and he posted this clip, like there needs to be a wellness check.
SPEAKER_06Or if he sounding the alarm and wasn't supposed to, we need to protect him.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. He's a whistleblower.
SPEAKER_06Both, you know, we don't we don't know. We don't know, bro. We don't know. And and what we do know is that former presidents have sounded the alarm on aliens. Yeah. And uh, we do know that there are a lot of videos out there. It's all unexplainable. Yeah, yeah. So do you think do you do you think talk about it? It's more than likely there are other beings that aren't humans around or maybe interdimensional beings that travel the earth.
SPEAKER_02You know my answer. Yes.
SPEAKER_06Yes and yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Double it and give it to the next person, yes.
SPEAKER_06Yes to both.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that there are there's something else out there. I I do believe that um well, I'll let you go first before I before I go by that. Okay, so I I don't think there are green men on Mars. I do think they are heavenly or demonic things, beings, creatures that aren't human, yeah, but still under the dominion of God, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? So I don't think we are there's another planet of civilization out there or uh Atlantis underwater. However, I'm not ruling it out.
SPEAKER_06And and angels and demons aren't omnipresent, they need vehicles to get around real quick and check on somebody.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So you mean I mean, hey, you look at different artifacts in the Bible. For example, the flaming sword that was set outside of Eden. It is an object. Yeah, it is real. If I saw a flaming sword sitting outside of Eden, I'd probably call that a UFO. Yeah. So something's out there. You feel me?
SPEAKER_06Something's out there.
SPEAKER_02You know, Ark of the Covenant, maybe it was radioactive. That's why they couldn't touch it.
SPEAKER_06I mean, we could get into Genesis 6 in the book of Enoch if we would like to on some uh Pastor, Pastor, go with me, Pastor.
SPEAKER_02They could the the priest had to wear the what is it called, the Ephon with the stones on it. Okay. The stones was protecting them from certain radioactive frequencies.
SPEAKER_05Chris, what are your thoughts, man?
SPEAKER_01Back me up! I I can't back up the radioactive. I'm sorry. Yeah, that was a covenant radioactive. Yeah, that was. Yeah, you know, I I believe you about angels and demons, you know, I'm with you there, but the radioactive arc, I I, you know, nah. I do think, I do think though that there are angels and demons that have the ability. You almost made me think about Marvel with the way you were talking about the multiverse, but can ebb and flow through um what we see, the seen and unseen. I do feel they may have that authority and that power. I mean, even with if you think about how people would be possessed in the Bible and things of that nature, like they have the ability to surface in some shape, fashion, or form. Um, but that's about where the book stops. I mean, I don't believe it's people in like like you said, it's no green men in Mars or nothing like that. I just think that I do believe in everything is submitted unto the authority of God. So I'm with y'all on that. But that's where mine stops.
SPEAKER_06Yes, I think that is important to say that whatever beings may exist, they were created beings by God and they are under his authority.
SPEAKER_02Amen.
SPEAKER_06Amen.
SPEAKER_04I I think that's why uh just a broader conversation, why a lot of times with the conspiracy theories, I'm I'm the one that kind of does not jump in on those. Not because I mean some of the stuff I do I think that our government is telling us all the truth. No, of course not. Like, do I do I think that there aren't things that are being hidden? Of course, I believe that. Uh I think for me though, for two reasons. One, to talk about something that I don't have evidence of is uh like it is just something that I don't know if I have, um, I don't know if I want to go down that way. And then two, like for my own mental capacity, like I wanna I want to focus on the things for me that I can corroborate that I know that are true. Like I wanna, and not just factual, like I want to. But my my point is there are there are enough evidences about the truth of the word of God that God revealed himself too.
SPEAKER_03That was too good.
SPEAKER_04That was this is not God revealing himself. And and so my my point is like and in all honesty, like that, this is one of those things. Do do I know how many times God has done this creation thing? I don't know. Do I know do I know what else he has going on that is beyond our revelation and understanding? I have no clue. And honestly, unless he reveals it, I I'm not gonna it it doesn't it it doesn't change the relationship that we have with God. I don't want to be ignorant to anything and just duck my head and and uh put my head in the sand, but it also doesn't change anything, and he's God. And if he desires to do that, I believe in uh principle uh principalities and spiritual um wickedness and high places, all of those things I believe. Uh and if This is the evidence of those great. Didn't need that to be evidence to believe that. But then there are there are things that I think they're uh beyond where I have the capacity to know, and I want to focus on what is truth. And so going back to your point, what did God reveal to Thomas? He revealed to him his scars, he revealed to him his scratches, his his bruises to prove that he is real. And for me, I want to build and trust my life on that. And then anything else, it's just it that that's I I want to I feel like because uh the last few pods, like I feel like I am the the water on a wet, I am the wet towel on a on a fire of conspiracies. And I want to explain to you why that is. It's not that I believe the government tells us all the truth, it's just I would rather spend my time thinking about things that are truthful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I like your point. This is like a little branch topic here, but like branch connected to the vine. Oh you want one. Um when it comes to like civilizations, like civilizations that come and go. I don't think Adam and Eve look like us. I think that was a civilization. It doesn't, if we were to find artifacts from the Garden of Eden, I think we'll be like, whoa, this is an alien, but it's not, it's just not from our civilization. Or like the world before Babylon, or the world after and before the flood. Like there's like these different like civilization things that happen, whether that be white, go ahead. I you're with me. No, uh uh.
SPEAKER_06No, I'm just listening. You know, it I'm trying not to pull it, take us too far off of what he just said.
SPEAKER_02Right? Like, hey, I I do wonder, like, as God is sovereign over all and all things that happen in human history in heaven and earth, um, seen and unseen, civilizations in, civilizations out, things that we can explain of the pyramids, or things that we can explain, like things uh being discovered in the ocean, all this kind of stuff. It's still one sovereign God over all. So I don't think there's anything outside of the dimension that he has set.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Yeah, and these things can be real fun to talk about and explore, but I think that's what Pastor Jason said, and what you just said is is the main point. That all this, as long as we have okay, this is possible under this truth, yes, that God is the eternal creator and only God over all things. But also, maybe it was normal that animals talked back then, and that's why they didn't freak out when the snake talked to them. That could be possible. It could be possible that the snake wasn't crawling on his belly because that was the curse that he gave them.
SPEAKER_02That's possible. Talk about it.
SPEAKER_06I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's true or not, but it doesn't mess with our theology if that were to be true. If it was true that there was a long gap between Genesis 1-1 and Genesis 1-2, I don't know that it is, but if that is the correct theology, that doesn't mess with ours. No God. But I do think that Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster are real. But that doesn't Loch Ness monster is the only thing I remember about the fifth grade. It's it was a it was a staple.
SPEAKER_02It was a staple. That one, or when I figured out what is it called? The Leviathan in the Bible, yeah, and all that stuff. It's like it's some cool stuff out there, man. But it's still one God. Yeah. Still one God. Well, that was a little conspiracy hour for you. Uh appreciate y'all. Oh, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_04No, and just so you know, just because that's my perspective does not mean that I want to limit y'all's venture into no, we need limits. You know, and even people that are listening, like if those are things that you enjoy discovering, I just want you to know like why why my responses normally what they are is for me that that works best for me uh to focus on things that I do know about. And you're right, the parts that we do know about God, nothing that I've heard anything anything governmentally or anything that we just heard with you know UFOs and aliens, none of that is contradiction to what we believe to be true. Um, and that's the that's when I would I'd much more aggressive resistance, if anything, was against uh that theological truth that we do have understanding of.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, maybe the tabernacle being radioactive was a little too far. You know, it's just you know, I and the pyramids. The pyramids, you know, hey, maybe you know, imaginations. Wow. All right, guys.
Fan Mail: Finding God In Scripture
SPEAKER_02We appreciate y'all for listening to the uh deeper conspiracy podcast. We're now going to start the deeper roots podcast, and we appreciate you guys for writing in, telling us your thoughts and what you're thinking. You can click into the episode on whatever device you're listening, and underneath the play button, you will see something called send in fan mail. We want to hear from you, and today we do got some fan mail.
SPEAKER_06Fan mail.
SPEAKER_02We just need a button. I'll turn it into a button and we can hit it every single time. This is coming from uh College Park, Maryland. Ooh, call it park. Quick question I had in the midst of my Bible study. I wanted to shoot um the pod at this. Does every scripture speak to the coming of Jesus and God's character? Or are some passages just examples of what to do and what not to do and the cause and effect of certain sins? I struggle with seeing God's character in every passage I read. A lot of times it just feels like I'm learning why God tells us not to do certain things. So, does God have to be revealed on every single page of the Bible? Do I need to find God every single time? Or are some things just for knowledge or what to do, what not to do? What do you think, Pod? Wow. That that was a synchronized head nod.
SPEAKER_04I'm I'm not sure if this is exactly what he's referring to, but there are some difficult passages, say, in the old testament that you read um that have been used to really uh invalidate Christianity as a whole. They're like, how could, if God is good, how could certain very horrific things happen in the Old Testament to people that God says that he loves, and even horrific things by the people that say that they are on the side of God. Um, and so I'm not sure if that's what he's referring to, he or she's referring to, but uh I I would say it in this way that the Bible has, especially in the Old Testament, there are two different ways to look at it. It is there are some things in the Bible that are descriptive, meaning they are just describing what is happening, and they are they are explaining that this is what is occurring. There are some, you know, very there are some illegal things, there's some immoral things that are happening by the people of God, by the nation, by the certain people that God has used in certain ways. And just because the Bible describes those events does not uh mean that God is prescribing that that's the right way to do things. Um, and so he is describing uh words like, I mean, there's there's sexual assault in the Old Testament, there's murder in the Old Testament, there are there are there's incest in the Old Testament, there's um there's rape in the Old Testament. All of those things are present. And just because the Bible describes those events happening does not mean that God is prescribing this is the way you ought to act. Uh, and in fact, the Old Testament, because of all of the description of evil that is happening, it really uh is pointing to the fact that we all need Jesus, even the people that were on the side of uh on God's side, is they could not morally, ethically, uh religiously in any way live in a way that honored the Lord. And in fact, the description of a lot of their evil for for people who look in on the Bible to try to find the fault in it, um, that would be a reason that they do not. But for people who are looking for the glory of God in it, describing the evil of man does not, in my opinion, take away from the glory of God. In fact, it it more amplifies and magnifies the goodness of Jesus uh because we needed a savior. So um I would say that they're not there are some things that are just describing what happened, describing what happened to a family, describing what happened to a nation, things that are occurring. And just because that it was descriptive does not mean that it is God prescribing that's the way that things should be.
SPEAKER_01So for me, um I'm gonna take a different stance on the view of the way they they said their question. Um I just think about for me when I used to read the Bible, I would one, either read it as a story, um, because that's how I can comprehend things sometimes, or two, that it was individualized, just like the chapters, and it broke it up in pieces and in parts. So once I shameless plug, came to Impact Leadership Institute and was reminded of how that this one book is telling the story about how one man came to earth to save us, I view the Bible in its totality differently. So now, even though I know it may be an individual moment, it still is part of a bigger picture that I can now relate back to something else in the Bible, and now I start to like look at when I read uh like a 1 Corinthians 5, I don't take it out of for away from 1 Corinthians as the book. And so therefore I look at it as every part. So now it's like, okay, well, I think it's not that because like Pastor Jason said, it's a part that may describe or talk about a scenario, but at the same time, I think that's still a great question to always ask yourself when you're reading it. Where is God in this? Or how can I find God in this? Because it may be that you just took a piece of the story that you needed more info for, and that's why you didn't see God in that particular part because it was more of it that you need to look at on a broader scale. Um, and that I'm just using me for example. When I was reading it, I used to always try to find me. So I couldn't find God because I was always trying to find me, and that was a different perspective. So now when I do read it, or somebody had taught to me about the scripture, they always highlighted what I couldn't do instead of telling me about his goodness, because about his goodness a lot of times makes me not want to do those things anyway, naturally. And it didn't become, oh, you can't, you can't do this, you can't do that. But when my perpet perspective changed, it was like, oh, I get to this, I get this, I get to have this because of certain things. So I think perspective on how you read the Bible and approach it also makes a difference on if you can see God, and then also if he's telling you you can't do this, you can't do that verse, he's giving you life, and the choice, the choice is yours, but I'm just giving you life and I'm also giving you warnings, and because you look at it as a book of wisdom, as you look at it as instructions to certain things, you still be like, Okay, well, here's the warning label. If you do this, then you may get this. But I, you know, I'm not saying this person doesn't appreciate it, but when I changed my perspective, I was able to appreciate scripture a lot more.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I'm uh I'm with these guys. Uh I think from um when you look at scripture, I think that's why it's important to both um you know read uh long passages with with understanding of what's the context, what's happening here. I don't think we have to read uh Jesus into every passage or have to necessarily think about God's character, but when we look over the full counsel of scripture, it's made obvious to us. And I think the Holy Spirit will reveal to us where Jesus is. It said, um, does every scripture speak to the coming of Jesus and God's character? Well, now we know we we're able to look back, uh, praise God, of what's already been fulfilled in Scripture and be able to look back with the view of He's already sent a savior, as Pastor Jason said, that it revealed how much we needed Jesus in the old testament. But I think it's also important to sometimes uh I think like part of what Chris was saying is that read it for also just for what it is who was this written to, yeah, um, what's the purpose of the passage? Who's the audience? And then we get to also put on the glasses of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.
SPEAKER_02No, I think that's a great point. It actually made me think of this um analogy and tell me if this works or not. But on my drive home after the pod, every mile I take is leading me closer to the house. But not every mile has my house in it. Does that make sense? Yeah, like I'm going towards a direction so I can tell you my journey from the church where we record to uh uh my home led me to this direction. Every mile brought me closer to where I needed to go. Along those miles, there might be a car accident, there might be an exit, there might be uh an animal of some sort, and those little things aren't my home, but it's leading me to the home. And I think what you said of like looking at long passages in the broader scope. Um, sometimes I read Song of Solomon, I'm like, I don't really see the coming of Jesus in this right here, or or numbers in Deuteronomy, where it gets like really heavy genealogy stuff. Like, I don't I don't see it here. Um, I try not to uh go into the scripture or the passage thinking I need to go find this specific thing when I read it and let the Holy Spirit reveal to me what he wants me to take away, to pick up from here. But at the end of it all, the broad journey that we're taking is Jesus. Like it the it is the revelation of Jesus Christ the whole time.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Now I was thinking you mentioned Song of Solomon, two books in the old in the Bible that do not mention God at all. Song of Solomon and Esther. They don't mention God at all. And I think that's the that's the beauty of God is that behind everything, even as he's telling the story of Esther, Ori's Song of Solomon, where he's writing a lot about you know relationships and and sexual things and things of that nature, how behind all that, that God, although not specifically mentioned, he's in that, governs that, oversees that, and is given wisdom for those situations. And so I think that's the way God works a lot in the Old Testament. He's not as blatant and obvious as sometimes we would want him to be. And if we're honest about our lives, that's the way many of our lives are. We wish that he was more obvious, you know, straightforward in some of the seasons of our life, but it's almost like looking back on it, you're like, oh, he was right there the whole time. He was overseeing that. He was connecting ends uh that I didn't know uh needed to be connected. And I think that's the beauty of who God is. He's he's omnipresent, he's can be in everything, holding everything together, and still not be labeled correctly sometimes. And the Old Testament is definitely like that. From a family to a nation, he's holding all of it together by his own strength, by his own power. Um, and they don't even recognize him or acknowledge him a lot of times. And even it's it's difficult reading back through it. Where is God? How is he doing this? And then he shows up. It's like, oh, that's how he's gonna use that. Going back to the genealogies, studying those as laborious as they are to get through, I think it's so divine how the scriptures include genealogies, because that is exactly what we're describing, how God can use all of those things, horrific things that I just mentioned, and a lot of those things are in the lineage of the coming of Christ. They're they're mentioned in the family tree of Christ. Um, and that I think that shows the redemption, uh, how God redeems things, buys them back, and how he uses those shattered pieces and puts them together for goodness and glory.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Amen. Amen. So this is a stretch. But
Leadership, Parenting, Control, And Trust
SPEAKER_01you you keyed in on something that I have been thinking about here a lot here lately, and I don't know why it's weighing so heavy on me this week. But when you talk about using shattered pieces and things of that nature, um, I guess my question for the pod is as a pastor, as a father, as a husband, as an older sibling, have you ever dealt with, or how do you deal with the shortcomings of the people that you're tied to? So as a father, maybe a decision your child makes, and it makes you look at yourself like, did I drop the ball? Did I fail you in something that you made a decision? Or your wife may make a choice, or people you mentor, or something in your life that you kind of feel that you sit at leadership in, and but yet the choices they make don't seem to keep lining up with what you've tried to instill in them. Have you ever felt or dealt with that? And I'm just curious how you deal with that.
SPEAKER_04No, I first thing that popped in my mind when you said that is uh Paul plants, Apollos Waters, and God gives the increase. You're not sure of what season you're in, of how you're pouring into. And I think specifically with children, for me, the patience that's required to raise a child, I'm still, God is still developing in me because I want it quickly. I look, my my my son is six years old, and I look back three years ago, how I was so impatient with something that he was doing, and I wanted him to get out of it. And I was like, oh my God, this is gonna mess him up for the rest of his life. We got to get this fixed. And now looking back, just three, he's just six years old, and just three years now, I was like, why would I put so much pressure on that? It was gonna work out, it was gonna be good. Everything's all right. It's it's it's in his own time, it's developing. And and I think, and and pastoring has been the same thing. Uh, I get sometimes some of the largest mistakes that I've made have been focusing on the temporary without the long view of what God is doing. Um, and I think that's uh a temptation a lot of times with people in our world that a fruit of the spirit is patience. And I think to walk with anybody in mentorship, in parenting, in pastoring, it's gonna require patience and not putting so much pressure on, oh my God, they made a mistake. They failed, they're gonna mess up the rest of their life. Look what I did. Hold on. God's He can still use that. So instead of me getting urgent and hasty, oh my God, I failed their failure, let's move on. How can God use that to bring about goodness? Um, so I think patience is required, and also knowing that where um you you may not be the one to see the increase. And I think God does that so many times, so we don't get the credit and the glory out of it. Um, that you're planning in somebody's life, somebody else is gonna water it, and God's gonna get the credit for it, and you had a role in it, you had a place in it rather than the full picture.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think um now with uh having having four youngsters and uh parenting is an easy place to start for me because I feel like I fail at it all the time or I come short all the time as far as whether it's not having patience, whether it's am I making the right decision to set my children up for success and that kind of thing. But it I feel like and then society pushes all these things like they need to be, you know, reading by this time, they need to be out of diapers by this time, they need to be the most formidable time are the ages between this and this, and if they don't, if they don't not ahead by that time, then you know you it's over.
SPEAKER_04And then you know, they put it's like all this, all this stuff that they put on you, and then it's like at some point, if you don't release that to God, yeah, like you're gonna drive yourself crazy, and them crazy, like like it's you're right, like it's such a horrific way of of of raising children, is to put that pressure on them to be something that only is it requires time to be able to get there.
SPEAKER_06Yes, sir, yes, sir. And it's it's uh it's something you gotta constantly remind yourself to do. It's like I'm doing I'm doing the absolute best I can. Yeah I fall short. Okay, so and I think about this all the time. I'm like, okay, so maybe maybe my son and daughters, and you know, maybe because my son and daughter, they'll notice more now. The other ones are two and eleven, but eleven months. Um but uh my son sees this a lot, my five, my eight year old son, five year old daughter. Um, maybe they don't see a perfect parent, but maybe they get to learn what it's like to have a parent apologize and take ownership of making a mistake. Maybe they get to Maybe they get a little stronger because they had they had a a a little more difficult upbringing than I wanted to give them. You know, like there's there's always things that you're like, okay, it if you're doing well financially or not, if you could put them in private school or you can't. Like God's gonna take whatever that is. He and he already has full knowledge of of what's happening and gonna happen, I believe. And he's gonna use all that for the good of the child and for his glory. And I just have to believe that whatever he has in my hands, I I do what I can and that the Lord will handle the rest. I have to, I have to give that up because I genuinely care. I think like most fathers, I genuinely care so much that I want to take it and I want to uh make plans for every part of their life. And I want like in my own mind, like I want to make sure, okay, they're they're they they're into this. Let me make sure I keep that spark alive. Let me make sure, and I think these things are important. It's like to do these things, but it's like don't put all that pressure on you to have to make something of them. Like that's like they're not I am I am a steward of these children. I believe these children are God's children first, and they're then they're my children as a steward of them. And I believe that that whatever they are supposed to do, whatever they're you know, whatever it is, I leave that to God. And I pray all the time, Lord, uh please heal them from anything I might be, I might be uh any types of traumas I may be giving them. Yeah, you know, when I um when I maybe raise my voice when I shouldn't have, or when I act out of character, or they hear me maybe saying something I shouldn't have said, or maybe I say something mean because uh I have that tendency, you know, uh occasionally, even as a joke, as a jokester, you know, maybe I roast one of my kids a little too hard or something, and I'm like, Lord, please don't let them be insecure about their ears. I was just playing, you know. It's like, but uh, I'm joking about that part, but for real, like all those other, all my shortcomings. I I believe that those prayers still work on saying, Lord, fill in those gaps that I leave, heal the trauma that I may bring. And I mean, on top of just everyday life that they have to deal with. Yeah, but um, that was my best answer to that question.
SPEAKER_02No, I love when so you guys are speaking, like you kind of went the parenting route. You're talking about one one plant, one water is God gives the increase. Two things that have been in my mind really heavily lately um is I saw a video and they said the only control that God told you to have was self-control. Right, yeah, right. That yeah, that has been in my like the last two weeks that's been sitting with me. And so it's like, no, I don't have any children that I have to raise, but I do have family members, I have a wife, I have people I work with, and sometimes I know if they were just to listen to me, if he just did what I said the first time, we wouldn't be in this situation, and it's like that control factor, and then God is letting me know only have control of yourself. Yeah, okay. Commune with me, do what I ask you to do, control yourself. And then the second scripture that's been popping out to me lately, I feel like I've been quoting it to so many people. All things work together for those who love God and are called according to his service. All things work together. So that means something that is outside of my control, or my wife does something that I wouldn't have done, or my co-worker does something that I wouldn't have done, or whatever it is, if I am abiding in God, yeah, and if I'm a call according to his purpose and I am making sure that my love connection with God is strong, all things will work together. And the thing about all is that it includes all. Situations that come up that I didn't plan for, all things work together. For situations that I did plan for and it didn't turn out the right way, all things still work together. And especially when it comes to trying to control uh or or be disappointed when when somebody does something that doesn't align with me personally, it's still all things work together.
SPEAKER_00Amen.
SPEAKER_06And and you can we're all at, even you, at the age where we've lived long enough that we know eventually we'll look back and see how this did work together, yeah and how this did work for good, and how this did uh grow me as a person and as an individual and make me more Christ-like, and you know, help those around me. It's like in the in the in the season, it's always hard to see, but you know that hey, I I've I've done this enough times, I've made a fool out of myself enough times, I've made enough mistakes that I know that even those things will be worked together for my good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Kind of connecting both of y'all's thoughts, it came to my mind, and I I don't know where I've heard this a couple of years ago, but it changed my my uh thoughts around parenting and around pastoring. Um, and I control is is a temptation for all of us to control things that are beyond our control. Great word. And then you mentioned our responsibility as stewardship. The language that I heard around it is that our children, we we do not have the control or responsibility to engineer our children. We have the responsibility to discover how our children were already engineered. And I think I think that change, and and that I know there's a lot of pressure that you have. Oh, I gotta make something good out of my child. I gotta, or somebody you're mentoring, I gotta, I gotta really, you know, engineer them into somebody strong and powerful. That's not our control, that's not our responsibility. God engineered them, God made them. If they're if they're our our natural-born children, then they're they were they were made in the image of God. They're a stewardship or responsibility that we have. And our job is to discover how God wired them, to put guardrails around to make sure that they are going in that direction, but we're not engineering a child by our good parenting, and we're not engineering a believer by our good discipleship. No, God made that believer. They are born of the seed of the word of God, an incorruptible seed. They're born of that seed. And what they are going to be is not going to be because I engineered them right by saying all the right things so eloquently and clearly that they were discipled well. No, God made them. God created them, God birded them in the kingdom of God. And so my responsibility is to add food and water to a plant that already has everything it needs in the seed. Um, and I think that's the that's a changing of the way, again, it it allows you to enjoy moments that in times past I pressured the joy out of it. I I like I look back on it like three and one year old, like, man, that was the best years in the world. And I was like so much pressure, but they gotta be here, they gotta be doing this, they gotta be in this school, they gotta look like this. I've kind of, and you know, I'm I'm early into this and it may change a thousand times. But right now, it's just like, God, you're doing a great work. How can I partner with what you're doing? How can I not get in the way of it? How can I not hinder it? How can I not squeeze it so tight that I take the life out of it? And how could I look back on these life on these moments? And man, they were the most joyous moments because I was discovering how you created that person, how you um uh you made that person. And the same thing with pastoring, like some of the best people in the world God has placed, uh, and we put pressure on them to be something before it's time, and we rob the joy of just the friendship. We rob the joy of the relationship that God is working on that person, sanctifying that person, and they don't have to be made in my image because they're made in his image.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, amen.
SPEAKER_02Man, all things work together. I think of Adam. Eve definitely did something that Adam was not. He was like, bro, you bit the fruit. Well, then I'm gonna bite it too. And they got kicked out of the garden. Like, but yet, and still, all things still work together for Adam and his family. I think of uh um uh who David's kids, brother. Yeah, you want to talk about some wayward children. David's kid was doing, but still, all things work together, and so this is it's something that anchors me. And I think it removes the pride from my life when I'm like, I am only but a servant, yeah, I am only supposed to operate in the fruits of the spirit in this with this person, with this situation, with this project, and all things are gonna work together. And it's not gonna be by not by my power or by my might is anything gonna get done. And it it keeps going that that gratitude element of God, I thank you, I get to do this. God, I thank you that you gave me the ability to even try. And it's like that's been sticking out to me too.
SPEAKER_01I'm surprised you didn't mention Moses because you were talking about self-control and with the children of Israel, how because of his lack of self-control, he got punished with what they were doing, and the decision that of them worshiping other idols and all that, they're chattering, but because he got frustrated that he was struck the rock, right? When he wasn't supposed to, and that right there, his punishment. Um, and I think that is the biggest temptation is that you somehow impede yourself in someone's life as their God. Because you're like, oh, I need to control this and I need to control that. And it it may not start out as your intentions, but then you just start to look at like, man, they made another another decision there. Like, how did they go so left when I was speaking this way or I was doing this? But and I think too, marriages open my eyes for one that you can't control anything. The only person you can't control is yourself or change is yourself, and let that reflect and come out, which is why I think when Jesus came, his life, he just reflected his life. He told them he had conversation with them, but he just lived a life that showed them that they could be different. And that responsibility is sometimes I think we we feel like we could be disappointing them because, like, man, did I make a bad decision just because of the weight of it? But I I think I don't know, it just seems like with all the stuff I've been hearing in the news, how fathers are taking the lives of their families and mothers are feeling the weight of it, it just seemed like something that that's why I brought it up, to be honest. Like people feeling like that their decisions have, and I do know there's cause and effect, we all know that, but your responsibility is to be the best you that is following God. And that they're gonna have their own choices. Cause I know my parents was great examples for me, and I still wild out. So, you know, had great passions in my life, but I still go home and make my own decisions, like you know, I because anything that you I think that the misconception is that people think they can control situations and scenarios, you can only control yourself, and the outcome is gonna become the outcome. But most of the time what you're controlled by is what you're submitted to and what you surrender to, and you have to make sure that you have been surrendered and submitted to the right thing because if we go back to you talking about how the world says my kids have to be at a certain stage, then now I've gone back to placing myself either as God or the new standard of life for them at the end of the day. And so I just think that's very important. And if anybody is listening and you have leadership over your kids or your business or whatever that you may have leadership in and you may feel like it's not producing the results, hold on, keep pressing in, just keep looking for God in that scenario situation. And like Isaiah said, all things work out for the good. And if it ain't good yet, it means the story ain't over. So just keep pressing, keep pushing. Um, and if you need to, reach out to your community, um, anyone that is in your life that can just give you a piece of life and light and hope. Um, because it's there, you're not by yourself. The Bible says the temptation is common to man. If it's common, that means you're not the only one going through it. So don't let the enemy isolate you in those scenarios and situations.
Sovereignty Of God And Closing Encouragement
SPEAKER_02Transparency moment. Um, lately I've been listening to a lot of songs that speak to God not failing. And like like all like every song that speaks to God not failing. Because I sing them on Sunday morning, but I didn't act like it later in life. Come on, man. Of like my like me and my wife are are going through like a transitional phase right now in life, and next year is already starting to plan itself out without our control. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, I don't know how. And I have been controlling it for the last two weeks. And I hit those worship songs, and I'm like, he do I trust that he can be God? Like, do I actually trust it, or does he need God plus Isaiah's intellect or God plus Isaiah's planning? And then he says, There is a way that a man plans that leads to death. And it's just like, man, I really I'm just gonna have to anchor in that God won't fail me in the direction that he's taking me, and I don't necessarily know where his finger ends up. Like it's it's still there. So that's been an anchor for me and a transparent moment for me of just like I I I'm really gonna have to trust that he's not gonna fail.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's good. And he won't. He won't.
SPEAKER_02He won't. He won't. Man, uh beautiful vibe today, guys. Fantastic. Anybody? Last words? Any anybody feeling anything?
SPEAKER_06No, okay. I was just gonna say, I think sometimes we I think because of church splits in the past and issues between denominations, I feel like sometimes people on our end of the uh spectrum, and we can cut this out if we need to, but I feel like we downplay the sovereignty of God because of the battles with predestination conversations and because of the election elect conversations and our issues with that. I feel like people in our camp stay away from the word sovereign too much, but there I believe that there is a God who is in control and who knows the end from the beginning and has has plans for us. And I think it's important to always remember and keep in our mind that God is in control. Yeah, powerful. Amen.
SPEAKER_04And both both of those realities are true. Can can we limit God's ability in our lives with the lack of faith, the lack of trust? Amen. And we can limit him in our personal lives, but that does not mean that God is limited in his ability and scope of what he's producing and what he's doing. And both of those realities are exactly true. And I agree with the sentiment that I think a lot of times we devalue that and put more attention on what we can do, how we can earn, or even what our faith can accomplish rather than than the trusting in the fact that He is He's sovereign over us. And that's uh that's a comforting reality when it's seen biblically and truthfully.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, amen. Great episode. This has been the Deeper Roots Podcast. Go ahead and write us in. Shout out to the the fan mail that came in that kind of really spearheaded this whole episode and where we came from. I appreciate y'all. Go ahead for tech. Thank you for tech, exactly. Gratitude. Thank you for writing in. Um, if you're listening and you College Park, yes, yes, college, college park.
SPEAKER_06I'm just giving an extra shout out to the write in person. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02Go ahead and write into the party. Appreciate y'all for listening. See you next week.