Deeper Roots Podcast

PDA in Church, Giga Church, and NBA Finals

• Impact Church Greensboro

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One minute we’re breaking down the NBA Finals and the wild way a series can flip from “it’s over” to “we’ve got a game,” and the next we’re confessing the modern struggle of streaming services. If you’ve ever searched three apps for one game, debated a free trial, or felt the pull of “I’m not paying for one more subscription,” you’ll feel seen. We even talk about the nostalgia of cable and why having too many options somehow makes it harder to relax.

From there, the conversation gets unexpectedly personal and practical: why returning stuff feels impossible, how “red button” budget resets work in real households, and why our wives deserve awards for actually sending things back. Then we shift to the power of shared energy with sports like the World Cup and hockey, where watching with people makes the moment feel bigger than the scoreboard.

The deeper turn lands with church life. We celebrate a birthday, then debate PDA in church and where the line is between healthy affection and distracting everybody around you. Finally, we tackle a question Christians are asking more and more: what do mega churches and giga churches mean for discipleship and spiritual health? We dig into spectators vs ministers, authenticity vs cookie-cutter ministry, and why local impact matters more than raw attendance numbers. If you care about church growth, Christian leadership, and building something real, this one’s for you.

Subscribe for more conversations like this, share it with a friend who loves church culture talks, and leave a review with your take: are giga churches a sign of health, or a warning light?

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Welcome And Chris Shoutout

SPEAKER_02

This is the Deeper Roots podcast. We're four hosts talking about a range of topics from life to godliness. I got Chris, RJ, Pastor Jason, and myself, Zay, sending love to Chris. He couldn't be here today. But

NBA Finals Reactions And Predictions

SPEAKER_02

have y'all been watching the NBA finals? Game one just happened. And let me tell you something. By halftime, I was like, oh, it's in the bag. After halftime, the New York Knicks pulling it out of the bag on the road. That was one of that was a really exciting game. I'm so excited for this series. If every game was gonna be that down to the wire and that exciting, brother. Yeah, we got ourselves a game.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. It's been one of, other than Stephen Curry, like this is one of the uh finals that I've been looking forward to the most. And I've actually absolutely enjoyed it. I was with you in game one. Uh, same thing, and I'm looking forward to to game two tonight. Um it's uh Victor Wimbayon. I and I'm I said in the last series and it's documented, so I can't even take you back, that I thought Wimbyan was was running out of steam, and then he all of a sudden got a second win. He heard you. He got a second win in game five. So I'm not even gonna say anything about my brother today. I'm gonna let I'm gonna let see what happens because he somehow took some type of energy shot between game four and game five of the OKC series and bounced back. And I think that's why these series are so fun. Like one game could swing so hard one way, like there's no way this team could be beat. They're gonna sweep them, and then the other team comes back, it's just a pendulum swing. So I'm looking forward to see what game two is. If if the Knicks kind of physically dominate like they did in game one, I think it could be a pretty quick series. And that that's what I that was my big takeaway. It kind of pushed uh Wimayama around a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

Like he was looking little, yeah. He was looking little out there. They was the Twin Towers, yeah, was pushing him around.

SPEAKER_00

But even some of the younger, I mean, there's some of the uh shorter guys like Josh Hart and OG, yeah, like they were they were pushing him right that you could obviously see that was their game plan. So they got him off his his spots where he wanted to be. And and then I think if you go to New York, they're gonna be less and less fouls that are called on the Knicks. So I don't know. We'll see. But I mean, I'm not gonna count um San Antonio got me last series, so I'm not gonna count him out until I see them on the map.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah. Yeah, I was uh first of all, I'm happy that the Spurs made it. Yeah, that they they made it, yeah. So he cares, he cares, right? He cares for us. Yeah, he was man, he was sobbing after they won't. Yeah, that was good strong emotion to you. I thought he won the finals. I know. That's what I was watching the clip of KG. He was like, that was too much for hater, bro. Hater and then everybody got him, was like, remember when you was crying in that interview? When did he scream in the Cleveland?

SPEAKER_04

No, no, that's a different guy. Oh, my bad.

SPEAKER_02

See him mixing up wait, that wasn't Cleveland. This is for you. That wasn't Kevin Garnett. Come on, man.

SPEAKER_04

All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna shut up. Go ahead. Now I forgot what he did. Yeah, he said something.

SPEAKER_00

But he was screaming, but he was in Boston.

SPEAKER_03

So it was uh but he had that interview with uh who was it? Um John, oh it was an old coach, but he he was crying in an interview in the offseason when he was with the Timberwolves, and he was like, I hate losing. I hate losing, which was I loved it. Yeah, but everybody brought that up and he made a post like, sorry guys, you're right. I'm I'm you're right, you're right. But I love that I love that, and I think that this series could go. I felt like that before it happened. I was like, I'm kind of rooting for the Knicks because I feel like their windows are shorter than the Spurs is, yes, and it feels a little bit like uh with with Brunson and and Wemby, it feels a little bit like a David and Goliath matchup. So I'm kind of I'm pulling for the Knicks, but I do hope it's a six-seven game series. Yes, but I have a confession. Uh-oh, talk about it. I did not watch game one, right? And let me tell you, I got it was a long day of work, a long day of work outside, and I got home after I got home at like 5:30, and we had a uh baseball game at 6. I got home, picked up Nolan, the kids changed clothes real quick, went to the ball field, played, went back home, got everybody ready for bed, and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna watch this game. And I couldn't find it. I could not find the game. And I said, forget it, I'm going to sleep. And and I really wanted to watch that game. Yeah, you know, but honestly, it probably still would have watched me. Yeah, what are y'all watching it on? It's

Finding The Game Without Paying

SPEAKER_03

on ABC. I don't have the ESPN, I'm not subscribed.

SPEAKER_02

First of all, it's it's a mafia with all these streaming services, and you gotta find the right day to watch the right game and all that kind of thing. It's a lot, but let me tell you something. I'm pirating the game.

SPEAKER_03

Can you send me a link?

SPEAKER_02

I will. Okay. Because I have no shame at all. Just make sure you got some good ad blockers and stuff. Um, but yeah, I will say I will send it to you, bro. I'm pirating the game.

SPEAKER_03

Send me a it's a good quality. I need it.

SPEAKER_02

It is it is the game. Like it is streaming. Now it's out of Canada, so you're gonna get some Canadian commercials.

SPEAKER_00

I'm cool with that. I'm cool with that. It's all it's all NBC, y'all. You can get an antenna.

SPEAKER_03

I'm not going to get an antenna to watch the NBA finals.

SPEAKER_04

It's great.

SPEAKER_03

If nothing else, I'm tucking the kids in and going to Buffalo Wild Wings and watching. That's what I'm gonna come over to one of y'all's house and watch the NBA. They pull up, bro. You know, me and the laptop. I'm not, I'm not buying another streaming service to get the ABC.

SPEAKER_04

No, that's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03

Is the whole finals on ABC? I might have to get a trial run.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's just a I think it's just a free channel. ABC, NBC. It's one of the basic CBS, NBC, and ABC. That's why I say like an antenna. You can get that for free, I think.

SPEAKER_02

Brother, I got a flat screen TV. I'll have to try to know at nine o'clock when it goes around.

SPEAKER_03

Is is is game two tonight? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Game two is tonight.

SPEAKER_00

But I did just think about something. Sometimes uh some of the local channels don't aren't a part of like uh direct TV or Spectrum or stuff like that. So whatever you have, that might be an extra package. You're right. So sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Or just create multiple Gmail accounts, YouTube TV. Wow. Do the free trial 14 day every single time. You can watch anything you want.

SPEAKER_00

All right, just as a disclaimer to all of our listeners, we have found out that Isaiah is stealing this game and he just gave us game on YouTube TV.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I was a college student, bro. But I found ways to finesse the stuff. I mean, yeah. Come on, man. A lot of y'all don't know about the Google Drive hack to watch any movie you want to, but I ain't going that's too much game to spit on the airways.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

But any any any movie, Google Drive, there's a hack for it, bro.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, I'm interested.

SPEAKER_03

The only thing is, I don't like that much work to watch something. It is I like I like to flip on the TV. I'm I wish uh I think it was some uh I think it was uh Jim Gaffigan that said, I got an idea. Why don't they bundle all these things together and call it cable? It's like we had a good thing. It's like there was a I miss I miss being able to turn turn it and just be like 140 ESPN, you know, uh uh a 138 TNT. Yeah, you know, one, you know, just being like that. I I miss my parents, they still had cable till like maybe a year or two ago, and I was so happy when I go over to their house, and it takes out a lot of the um mental load on deciding what to watch. I don't want a hundred thousand options, I really don't. It do be a lot, I really don't, and then everything is on something

Streaming Overload And The Red Button

SPEAKER_03

else. We did something last, I mean, all right, we got a red button. Red button is when we go broke, because it's happened a couple of times. Red button is cut all our cards off, open up new accounts, uh uh cancel everything we have and start back with the basic necessities. That's red button. Okay, we've got too much stuff coming out. Let's let's hit the button and only start back with what we need. And we always end back up getting everything. And it's like now we're back, we got Netflix and Hulu and Disney Plus, Disney. You gotta have Disney Plus if you got children, yeah. And then we, you know, it got Apple, yeah, and it's Paramount Prime. Yeah, it's like, well, this and it happens slowly, yeah. It happens slowly, it's like sin.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, talk about it. I'm just a little dreaming service leavens the whole cable stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Well, this show is on this, and we really like this show.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the second season is coming out.

SPEAKER_03

You gotta download it to watch the next season, yeah. And it's like then the next thing you know, there's a the the Olympics is on Paramount, so we gotta we gotta get Paramount Plus, and then we'll just do the trial, we'll cancel it. What a lie that is. I've never canceled anything.

Why We Never Return Stuff

SPEAKER_03

I've also never one of my biggest uh problems in life, not to change the subject, is when I order something and it doesn't fit, bro. I can't take it back. Same. I can't send it back. Same. So Santana's like, why didn't you take because I was like, hey, can you sell these boots on marketplace? I bought them like two years ago and they didn't fit. I was like, they're worth like 200 bucks. She was like, You didn't take them, send them back. I was like, No, I ordered them online. I could send back a big box of boots. I know that sounds awful, and I probably needed the money, you know. But I'm just like, that just it's it's too much.

SPEAKER_02

My wife is so good at sending things back.

SPEAKER_03

Mine too. Mine too. She doesn't like sending my stuff back, but she's really good. She does it, she does it, but she's really good at sending her stuff. Like if I I know that if I buy something from somewhere like Target that I know she's gonna hit up, yeah, I like shopping at Target. And I get some stuff from Target. I I don't try it on because I know if it don't fit, I just put it in a bag, give it a hey, next time you go to Target, drop will probably be tomorrow. Uh, you can just take that back and use that to spend some money. There you go.

SPEAKER_02

No, my wife, my wife will get that receipt and she'll be like, uh, keep that box or keep that package, keep that receipt, and we'll get back to Amazon. To be honest with you, I don't even know the process of sending something back via Amazon.

SPEAKER_00

Same.

SPEAKER_02

I feel guilty. If I ordered the wrong thing in the wrong size, it's my fault. Yeah, I deserve that. I'd I'd eat that. Yeah. Eat it. Like take it to the chin. Like, I ordered the wrong shirt. Yeah. I should have looked at the sizing chart.

SPEAKER_03

I should have gone to a place that had boots that I could try on. There you go. But I was lazy and ordered it on the internet like a dummy, and they didn't fit. Next time I'm going in person, yeah, and I'm gonna, yeah. And I'm probably gonna lose 80% of that value on the shoes whenever I do sell them at a garage sale. You know, but hey, that was. I'll do it.

SPEAKER_02

I'll do it right next time. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

Just a story about my wife to explain how bad I how bad, how good she is at doing this and how bad I am. She went grocery shopping, Harris Teeter. It's been six months ago, bought the wrong kind of jelly, $3.29. She set it on the counter for at least three weeks with the receipt right beside it. And she said, I'm gonna take it back. I said, Rosetta, you are not gonna take $3.29 worth of jelly back and say you got the wrong kind. She said, Yes, I am. It sat there for like three weeks, it's there longer than I, but she ended up taking jelly back, getting three dollars and twenty-nine cents put back on our card. And I appreciate it. She does, she does the Amazon stuff quite frequently at the time.

SPEAKER_03

What was the I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00

I I don't, I don't, it was that it was some type of strawberry, raspberry jelly, and she was trying to get strawberry jelly or something like that. So she thought it was strawberry and it was raspberry.

SPEAKER_03

See, I'll be like, well, now we're eating raspberry jelly. That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_00

I was like, we'll try, and if we don't like it, we'll throw it away. She said, no, do not open that. This is a true story. This really happened, and it sat right there on our counter with the long receipt right beside it. We spent like $150 on groceries, and $3.29 was worth it to her to come back.

SPEAKER_03

Here's the thing I would never do it, but I appreciate that somebody will. I appreciate that somebody will. The little I'm just last week, said Hannah took back a bag of apples.

unknown

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03

The apples she opened the bag, they were the apples we always get. And there was like, they didn't look good, they were soft, a couple of them were rotten. She was like, I was like, Well, we gotta get more apples. She was like, I'm taking these back. She's done it before with bread. She's done it before. I mean, I I appreciate I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00

There's been a few times on Amazon recently that Rosetta goes through the process to send it back, calls in, and they said, Oh, just keep it. Yeah, like $40, $50 stuff. Just keep it. We'll send you another one. Amazon must be rolling. Doesn't fit, keep it, give it away, do something with it, we'll send you another one. So it's worth sending it back.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks, thanks to the wives.

SPEAKER_02

Shout out the wives. Because I'll especially oh, I will never send back food. I'd be embarrassed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, same, same.

SPEAKER_02

I'd be embarrassed. A steak comes back and I wanted it medium well and it comes back well done. I'm just gonna eat it. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

My wife will be like, You're not enjoying that? I'm like, no, it's good. Come in, come in, come in. Yeah, because I mean, it's like it has to be bad, horrible.

SPEAKER_02

It has to be not edible.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'll eat the wrong order. Facts. If I like it, facts.

SPEAKER_04

I'll eat the same. I'll eat the X.

SPEAKER_00

Going back to the conversation a few weeks ago, just trust in the sovereignty of God. He knew that I needed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know what I needed. What I needed? He ate what I needed.

SPEAKER_02

Wanted the hamburger, got a chicken sandwich. Put that on God.

World Cup Buzz In Greensboro

SPEAKER_02

Um, oh, also, I don't know if you guys, I know you we keep up with basketball, but are you keeping up with the World Cup in the world of soccer? You know, the World Cup is here. Apparently, we got the Norway team staying right here in Greensboro, which is pretty awesome. You know, the World Cup is happening, I think it's happening in uh Canada, the U.S., and Mexico. And so all the teams are everywhere, kind of locally, to different places and districts, all that kind of stuff. Are they playing near here? I don't know if there's a stadium they're playing in. I mean, there must be, it must be close if they're staying here. I would think. Depending. I don't know anything about it. I know not. My my brother's super, super soccer fan, so he is excited. He's like, Isaiah, you need to go stand outside the hotel and meet the Norway team. And I was like, Jim Ryan, it's Norway. If it was Brazil, Spain, Portugal, maybe.

SPEAKER_04

But no, but just pull a move like that uh guy that ran out on the court taking selfies.

SPEAKER_02

You know, he he got uh fined and banned for life. Yeah, was it worth it? And you know, he didn't even get uh Wemby's face in the selfie because he was too tall. And so it's just nothing there. It was just a headless Wimby. Oh yeah, that's a that's a mistake. You couldn't pay me enough to do that.

SPEAKER_03

Did they like charge him criminally? Or they just banned them and fined them.

SPEAKER_02

I think it was banned and fined. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's cool. I just looked it up. They are they are staying at the Grandover Resort and doing their practice training sessions at UNC Greensboro Soccer Stadium. Oh, that's cool. And but uh uh they're not playing it, they're playing in Massachusetts, but they're staying in Massachusetts, but they're staying in Greensboro as they're at like base. That's cool. That is cool.

SPEAKER_02

That is cool. I do want to go to a World Cup game. I mean, it's in the U.S., it would be cool. I would love to.

SPEAKER_00

Never liked soccer before until about eight years ago in the World Cup when the U.S. started playing well. And I during the summer, like we were at the beach, like I was fascinated with it, man. And I absolutely loved it. Don't watch soccer much at all. I've always made fun of it. Um, but I am I I'm I'm looking forward to it. I mean, I know America is you know right outside of the top 10, I think, 12 or 13. And so they they could make a little little noise, which I'm hoping for. They I know they won their their last little um pre-World Cup game. They played well, their star got a got a goal. Um so looking forward to hopefully they make a little splash.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I love like it's stuff like that. Just like I really enjoy when I'm around other people. But if I'm by myself, I don't enjoy it as much. Yeah. Like I remember we were watching the Olympics a couple years ago, and we was it was around a bunch of people, and it's just like that energy, excitement and the energy, and it's like you watch stuff you don't even like, you know, you don't care about it all. And then when you're by yourself, you I try to, I don't know about y'all, I'll try to watch it and it'll be on, but I'm I'll probably look at my phone and do something else. But the World Cup, like it it is a different energy behind those games, but it is hard for me to watch a full 90 minute minute, even if it's the very last game and USA's in it.

SPEAKER_00

They might not score. I thought, but it was so intense to me, man. And I you I mean, you know what I've said about soccer, so I'm not I'm not saying this from a biased place at all, but like it was so intense, like for 90 minutes, I was like, oh, that felt like 22 minutes. Like it did not feel like 90 minutes, and like every time they were going back and forth, and it was low-scoring games, you know, one, two scores, but it felt like oh, they're close, they got close. Oh, that was a shot, and I'm screaming at and I don't know what's going on. Yeah, so it was and like I always looked at the fans like, what are y'all shouting for for 90 minutes? Nobody scores, they're running back and forth. But that that was one of my that was my first moment, kind of feeling the intensity of that like the swinging back and forth there, you know, their uh two or three attacks on goal or something like that. I I really got involved in it.

SPEAKER_03

I always thought I was like, Well, make soccer more interesting, which uh agreed. Uh the world things like the World Cup is way better because the every play looks like it matters to them. It's just like other sports, like basketball, it's hard to stomach in a regular season, honestly, when the games don't count. People are just you know throwing lazy passes, letting people score, but the playoffs, it feels like every possession matters, so you're glued to the TV. But I always thought like what like what would make soccer more interesting is if the field was half the size. Yeah, it's like it's too much space. Agreed. It looks like too much space out there. They kick the ball, yeah. They're they run 20 yards to go get it. It's like, bro, no, let's cut this in half, no fouls.

SPEAKER_00

I was getting ready to say add in fights like hockey, and I'm watching. Hockey is crazy. It'll stop some of that flopping that those LeBron people.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, switching gears.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's where he learned it from. Okay.

Hockey Finals And Live Game Chaos

SPEAKER_02

Moving on to hockey. Y'all did y'all know we were in the finals?

SPEAKER_00

I did know. I haven't watched, I've never watched a full hockey match game. I've never watched a full hockey game in my life.

SPEAKER_02

I learned like literally last night that we were in the finals. Yeah. And I was like, that's cool. I did go to one of one of my friends has like um season tickets, so he took me to the hockey game. And um hockey games are pretty cool in person. They are awesome in person. In person, so cool. But there was one moment when I was at the one game, and apparently the goalies had been tweeting at each other and sending subliminal shots all day before the game. Yeah, and so it gets to the halftime, and the goalie comes out of his little goal, and the other guy comes out of his little goal, and they meet half rink, half court. Come on, and well, I was so high, I didn't know what was going on. But I was like, yo, two goalies fighting. I don't know enough about hockey. But if both of the goalies come out and they ready to scrap, I was down, and then all the players and the refs got in the way, and I was like, let the boys fight. Yeah, that's why I'm here. But yeah, but they're we're in the finals. I know nothing about it, I have no idea how well we're doing. Apparently, but there was a there was a nail biter last night.

SPEAKER_00

It's one one. The Kings won last night.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, one one. I might have to tune in a little bit to see kind of what's going on.

SPEAKER_03

I've been wanting to go watch them, but I just never made the time. I remember going when when I was younger, my parents. It took me uh to see the monarchs. I don't remember if that was uh the Greensboro team or if it was before the hurricanes or what.

SPEAKER_00

I think it was in Greensboro. Was it in Greensboro?

SPEAKER_03

It was the Greensboro Monarchs. And I remember going to watch them a couple times as a kid, and I thought it was awesome. But um, and I wanted to go see, I think this was the first year of the Gargoyles. I heard their games are awesome, but I never I didn't make it. I think the season's over now. But I really want to go, that'll be a fun team event to go see the gargoyles.

SPEAKER_02

Go see the gargoyles.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I I've heard they do much like the grasshoppers do. It's a great show. Like it's a great family to do. I've heard that too. We've never been. But yeah, I think the grasshoppers do a great job for nine innings, like to keep a child or a family involved. Yeah. But they they do well. A lot of stuff in between every innings, and I've heard that the gargles are much like that.

SPEAKER_03

See, the thing that I would prefer about the gargles is it's inside. I'm just like, I would love it if they played in cooler weather. You know, it's like I just think about being out there. It's like, okay, so which I look at it, I'm like, which seats will be shady. You know, you guys sit behind home plate or something. If you out there in left or right field, you're gonna get burnt up, you know. Well, I am. You might not. Hey, built-in sunscreen. Yeah. Pastor Jason will get a nice Native American tan. Here I am just burning up. All my family just looking like, what's wrong with dad? Why is he standing up by the concession stand? Is he getting some more nachos? No, I'm saving my life.

SPEAKER_00

Trying to cool off. Oh man. Behind the seats behind home plate. You're like, you so bougie. You getting the ridge seats? No, I'm just trying to leave them. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03

I was gonna go to two games this year, but I put them together. Yes, sir. And I bought one game behind home plate. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02

In the shade. There you go.

Birthdays And Getting Older

SPEAKER_02

Uh, getting into some deeper root stuff here. Okay, I got two topics. One is a little bit fun, the other one might be a little bit more serious. But before I jump into these topics, don't have to sing me happy birthday. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I was just about to set it up. Before we get into these topics, we got to shout out my guy, RJ.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, sir. No big deal, guys. No big deal.

SPEAKER_02

Happy birthday, RJ. Guys, thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Happy birthday, bro. The big three six. Big three six. Man. Yeah. I will say 36 feels different than 35.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're you're really close to 40.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, you feel like 35, you're like, well, I'm in the middle lower. It feels like the middle lower of 30s. 36, I'm like, all right, all right. All right. We're we're we're inching up, you know, 35. And plus 35 feels like a round number. You're like, okay, we're, you know, we're there. But um, yeah, 36, you know, I feel like um, you know, I don't know. It's like it feels close, it feels like I'm getting too close. To what exactly? To 40. Well, do you remember what that felt like a long time ago?

SPEAKER_00

I'm on the other side, and it's not so bad. It's not so bad. You have one of two options. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could either keep inching up or stop altogether. No, I just I prefer keep inching up.

SPEAKER_02

There you go. More life to I didn't I didn't know you were a June baby. Yeah, yeah. All my life.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you too, right? Yeah, on the 18th. 18th. I'll be 31. Oh, oh yeah. I'm an old man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I wish this is the moments that I miss Chris. Like, I miss like you're having some elder statesmen, like I I I am it today. Like, I am the statesman. There you go. I'm gonna hold it together. It's nothing wrong with it. It's how you feel. Age is just a number.

SPEAKER_03

The birthday, what do birthdays feel like for you guys? Do y'all do y'all like get real get excited about them? Or me and wifey or you know, I'm just wondering. Oh, just as an individual, yeah. It's just it's just another day.

SPEAKER_00

It's just I love my wife's birthday. Like, I love doing stuff for her. Like, I hers in June, too. June 29th, yes. So I love, I love like that that day set aside for her. I love doing that. My, I mean, I look forward to it. I'm thankful for them. Um, mine's right around Christmas, so it's uh it kind of gets lumped in sometimes with Christmas. But I like, I like, I don't, I don't hate them, I don't dread them.

SPEAKER_03

How does that affect you as a child?

SPEAKER_00

Well, there's there's a lot of things psychologically that I could I could discuss. I mean, being a middle child, having your birthday around Christmas, getting one gift for birthday and Christmas. Like your day didn't really matter. You shared it with Jesus. No, it was my family did a good job of splitting it up. And I enjoy them, but I I I love my wife's birthday. And there's excuses to go on dates and stuff like that that are built in. Yeah, it's once you start. I don't know if you feel this way though, but like with kids' birthdays, anniversary, mother's day, father's day, birthdays, like it's almost every other month that there's something to celebrate as a as a family, right? That we and cost money.

SPEAKER_03

I know I'm telling you, I told that's what I told Satan. I was like, we can't uh because May was Mother's Day, yeah, our anniversary, yeah, and then my birthday first of June, her birthday is in a couple weeks. It's like, hey, that's that's a lot going on. Yeah, you know, we we can't go all out on all these.

SPEAKER_00

Valentine's Day, like it's a that you get six or seven things in a year, like that's half the year that you saving up for to do something, and so it's one thing that's happening with us is now we're getting invited to other people's birthday parties, baby showers, and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, hey, y'all didn't tell me it's gonna be expensive.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know if I like y'all that much. Goodness gracious. Just wait till the show is done, it all feels right.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, then the people who you went to might come to yours. They might not. They might not, but they might y'all better.

SPEAKER_01

I'm putting up this money in this gas. Y'all better show up.

SPEAKER_03

Uh my wife bought me, so we went to go see uh comedian Nate Burgotzi on Sunday in Greensboro. That's cool. So that was fun. That's funny. That's something we probably, you know, well, like you said, something we wouldn't have done. But, you know, she got sitters for all the kids and all that. So, you know, that was a good time.

SPEAKER_02

I completely forget about my birthday every year. Really? Every year. It's like ever since I moved out, mom and dad, it's like, brother, I'm Sharla.

SPEAKER_03

I don't believe it. I don't believe it's a big thing. He seems like the kind of guy has a big circle around. I agree with you. His birthday.

SPEAKER_02

No, I really like last night she was like, What do you want to do for your birthday? And I was like, I have I have no idea. It's like honestly, I have nothing. She's the one that surprises me with exactly what I would have wanted had I sat and thought about it for a little while. That's good.

SPEAKER_03

I'm the worst at like, what do you want for your birthday? I don't know how to answer that question.

SPEAKER_02

It's like I don't, I don't know what to say. It's just like, you know, I'm I said, I have you.

SPEAKER_04

Oh come on.

SPEAKER_02

I earned some brownie points. But yeah, no, not not good at celebrating my own birthday. I'm really not.

SPEAKER_03

And my wife does a good job of still making me feel special, even though I'm like, I don't know, whatever, yeah, whatever we want to do. And she uh she all like woke up that morning, she's got balloons at the kitchen table and you know, pancakes made and stuff like that, you know. And even just as good, you know, the kids are excited about it, and that's like that's cool. They're all like, happy birthday. And all the kids were up except for Navy, right? Uh on my birthday morning. And I was about I had to leave um to go to work and I spent a little more time, you know. I was like, I'll be late. And so I was like, okay, Navy was still asleep, and I was like, oh, you know, she's a girl, she's a five-year-old, but she's gonna be like, Why hey, I wasn't a part, you know. She's she's gonna have something. I was just telling my wife, I was like, I was like, Navy's not gonna be happy about this. I gotta go. And as soon as I said that, I heard, happy birthday, daddy. And bro, I could I could have cried. Yeah, I could have cried, and she was running down the hallway and gave me a big jump hug. And I was like, Oh, that's all that is that is all I needed. Um I was I was like, you could take me home. That's right.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I love it, I love it. Well, if you're listening to the episode or watching on YouTube, go ahead and comment. Happy birthday, old man, down in the comments below or sending some fan mail telling happy birthday, more life, more success, more blessings to you, RJ. Thank you. Switching into a little deeper root topic.

PDA In Church Where’s The Line

SPEAKER_02

Deeper. I would like to know how y'all feel about PDA in church, public displays of affection, new couple, uh, newly married, uh, fiancés, boyfriend, girlfriend, a little arm around somebody, or a little, little, you you preaching a sermon, you see somebody lean over and do a little smooch or something like that. How do you feel? How do y'all feel about it? Is it too much? Is there a certain limit where it's like, hey, brother, not in front of Jesus? You kissing during altar call is is too much. Pay attention. Pray for people at the front. Lay your hands on people at the front, not on each other.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, it's a little hand in the in the thigh. Is that too much? On the thigh, okay.

SPEAKER_03

In the thigh, too much. A little, uh just a little, just a little hand on the leg. Hey, I completely acceptable. In in the when it starts getting warm. When the thigh starts getting warm, you gotta pull the hand back. Hey, brother.

SPEAKER_02

In the secret place. Not here. I kid you not. I've seen it before. Hand in the back pocket.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, like standing up for prayer or something. Hand in the back pocket. Hand in the back pocket. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say it's a no-no. Too much. We're not being legalistic, but we are setting down some rules. All right. No hands in the back pocket.

SPEAKER_02

Hands in the back pocket might be a little much.

SPEAKER_03

I say, I say hand hand around. Okay. Okay. All right, all right. Holding hands during prayer, hey, that's okay. Decent. We're good. We're good. Smooching, I'm gonna say no. No kissing in turns? I'm gonna say no. No kissing in turn. Unless you're at the altar getting married.

SPEAKER_02

Come on, man.

SPEAKER_03

A little smooch between chapters. It's not happening. Nah, you gotta look, you got plenty of time to do that. Okay. All right, all right. We're we're laying down the law here. I ain't gonna lie. I didn't know where you were going. We're laying it. Definitely that's ex that's unacceptable.

SPEAKER_02

Naps in church. You know, it's it's between services. It's a Thursday night, kind of waiting around, taking nap on the pew together.

SPEAKER_03

When you say together, same pew.

SPEAKER_02

Same, same pew. We just we just don't a lot.

SPEAKER_03

You feel me? Like, like PDA.

SPEAKER_02

PDA, PDA, you feel me? It's just is it too much? Is it getting a little icky?

SPEAKER_00

We we are talking about married couples, right? So we're talking about married couples. We well I I would say that that would be the only thing that even that stuff is acceptable for, in my opinion. Okay. Like the the dating. Oh, yeah. I'm thinking, I'm thinking married folks. So the dating and and all of that, I I would if you're dating, you need to be sitting with your parents.

SPEAKER_03

Come on, come on, so with your friends, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, but I I would think that it would be the spirit of the world would be moving if there was increased PDA between married couples, like during the sermon. Like you feel like, okay, the Holy Spirit, like they're responding to the message.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Communion, they're having communion.

SPEAKER_04

Okay. Okay, I like it.

SPEAKER_03

I like it. No, I so married couples. Go ahead and go ahead and do what you need to do during church. You know, the two shall become my wife. I'm gonna I'm gonna need a kiss on Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_00

I I I mean, to you, I this is my during offering time. I need I'm gonna make this sacrifice to the Lord. No, I I agree with the anything that's distracting is probably out of line, but it is spiritual. So as long as nobody's looking, like you said, do it in front of Jesus. Like it's not Jesus, ain't just in the church, so he's anywhere anywhere. You feel me? So I mean, I just don't be distracting, don't have, don't get people's focus off of Jesus to look at you. Yeah. But other than that, like I I know some stories of well-known pastors in this area in Greensboro, who was notorious for after the service, he and his wife would go back to the office. I'm not gonna drop a more name. Come on. Notorious. Like, there's some people, like, this is not a secret, and he did not hide it. It was not in it, it was it was part of his process. No, come on, somebody.

SPEAKER_03

And I just and when I tell you, like they just like his adjutants just knew, well, we're gonna, we're gonna, nobody comes back.

SPEAKER_00

They knew they it wasn't all the time, but it was it was frequent enough where they was they were notorious for that after service, and and and I just think the marriage must be healthy. Like I that like that, yes. Right, I see no limit. I mean, uh you know, but that that's that's a true story, and I won't drop any names, but there's some people that were very high up in that church, very well-known church.

SPEAKER_03

I would like here in a I'm curious as to what the room looked like. Like, was it set up? Like, was there a mattress in there? And I'm also not that no mattress is needed, yeah, but just curious.

SPEAKER_00

I'm also laying the groundwork for like the precedent of what he started. I just think I just think the city should still have that spirit unless I'm just laying.

SPEAKER_03

All right, I will say there's been a there's been a few times y'all don't judge me. Hey, hey, ain't gonna be no judgment. We'll cut off this hallway every Sunday if we need to.

SPEAKER_01

Block it off.

SPEAKER_03

Come on now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, come on, somebody. There has been a few times where Rosetta's come to the back, and uh after service, we'll be back praying for Pastor and talking, and she'll come in, and there's been a couple of times where a look you gave where we're like, do we need to do we need to lock these doors? Because we'll we'll shut it, we'll shut it down. Yeah, if I mean you just pour it out, you need to receive. Come on, you feel me?

SPEAKER_00

I'm trying hard not to like make this, but it is something about that moment, like it and all like it is talk about it. It is it is really like yeah, it is something about that, and when she comes up and gives me a hug, and I'm uh we might need to edit this out, but after the service, it just says, you know, good job, or she was praying for me, or you know, something spoke to her, or something like that. Like it's just like my help, like it it really feels like that. Like it, you're I think I don't know, I'm trying to use the right language, but you're like you're very open during it's like spiritually, you're very open during those moments, and you have just kind of poured it. It is it is very uh it's it's a very strong, I don't know. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you're like I the yearning after the anointing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you you've been in a vulnerable place, you've been in a man at war.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've been a man at war and you come home after warring, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you get home, yeah, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02

I need to be refilled. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I need this this is my refining moment as a deer panting before the water brook.

SPEAKER_02

You feel me? Yeah, every chapter of Song of Solomon. It's biblical.

SPEAKER_01

It's biblical.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, it's biblical talking about marriage. I'm gonna be home in about 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_04

However, we're only boyfriend and girlfriend. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Bible distance. Yes. We we sit together, hand in thigh, hand in back pocket, okay, hugged up. Now, does your opinion change because you have children? And it's like I bring my children here. I don't want to see this stuff. Period. I don't care if you marry for 30 years. I don't want to see none of this stuff. My children go here.

SPEAKER_03

I think it's good for people to see um husband and wife showing affection to each other. I think that's healthy. That's healthy. Okay. Maybe maybe not. Um I think it's different when you're a boyfriend and girlfriend. But I think the kids should see your parents showing affection for one another. I don't think there's nothing at all wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I agree. The the crassness shouldn't be there. Like it shouldn't be like uh like derogative, I don't know the right word, but like provocative in that in that regard. I like it shouldn't be no tongue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good that's a good limit. Thank you for the time. We speak in tongues, we don't use our tongues. So it it should, but I but I agree with like wow. But like, and and again, it just goes to the motivation. There are kids. There are some, but I I'm um one for our house. Like, I agree with you. Like, so my wife and I, we attempt to try to like there's we hold hands, attempt to hold hands, we kiss in front of the kids, all of that, and we do it intentionally. Like we want to we want to make that visible. But honestly, there I used to, I don't know if I should share this, but I I used to like every once in a while I'd walk by and I'd I'd smack her on the on the butt. And that I thought was okay until my son like started walking by smacking my wife on the butt. And it was about two years ago, and and he started doing it like every time he walked by her. It's like that's what we do with mom. So we had to say this is a true conversation too. Yeah, and he would do it as a joke or whatever. But I I mean, and and he would and I like, all right, I that might be the line then of like of I don't want it to be like crass or or something that he goes and does to a little girl at school or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that whole so we had it, we had a pretty deep conversation. It took a little while for us to break the habit. You to break the habit. Both, yeah. Both of us have gotten like him and I'm not sure. Oh, him and him and I both. She she's she definitely hated it when he did it. Like she uh that that was the that was the problem why we had to draw the line. So like he is not uh doing that, and so he she hated that. So we uh we we both had to work on the process of breaking the habit, and I think we finally got there where it's not appropriate.

SPEAKER_03

How difficult it is to walk by your wife and not smack her butt. Hey, is my goodness. Uh uh talk about high level of test overnight. We're going home.

SPEAKER_01

We don't know.

SPEAKER_04

Oh no, we're coming, ladies.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway, moving on, discernment, I think is the word that we are looking for in these moments. Discernment. We're all married, by the way. We are we are married.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, that is the line. Yeah. I I do remember a true story. No embellishment, no lie, I'm gonna tell it straight. Playing hide and go seek in the church. As a young child, must have been around the age, I mean I was younger than 10. So just punch the kids. You know, the adults are are talking, they're cleaning up, they're playing hide and go seek. We ran around the church. I'm trying to find a hiding spot. Break open the kitchen doors. There's a couple in there. And they had just started to get into the heat of the moment. And I see as a young person, and my brain is I'm young, so I was like, I know who they are, they're together, I think. I think they're together. And like my brain started a rag, and then I just ran off to get in the car. Mommy, guess what I saw? My mom was like, name them. Next thing I know, some meetings start happening. Never see them again. And so it's like, ooh, was that a private moment, a sacred moment that wasn't supposed to be seen? Maybe the location was off. And then it's like the kids were around. Is this the right place? Like, there's so many like lines and blurs and stuff like that. But then it's like sometimes it's a little fun to do things outside the bedroom. You feel me? But then it's like the location in the kitchen, man. Of the church.

SPEAKER_00

Kids are like that's not appropriate, man. That's not inappropriate. If there's not a lock on the door, like it's it's inappropriate. Like even at home, if there's not a lock on the door, it's inappropriate.

SPEAKER_03

After a certain age, you gotta lock the door. You gotta make sure there's a lock. Yeah. So you know hey, in the future.

SPEAKER_00

No matter what time of the night, make sure you lock the door. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_04

We're wrestling.

SPEAKER_01

Man, speaking of uh speaking of the church, the the the potlock, the the potlock.

SPEAKER_04

Not the church kitchen. Yeah, that's stainless.

SPEAKER_02

Now that I'm grown and looking back on that moment, yeah, completely inappropriate. Not okay. Not in the kitchen. At all, no, no. Stainless steel do that to you. That's too much. The spaghetti dinners. Come on, man. Yeah, that's uh gotta have some self-control, you guys. That's true. That's true. Gotta have some self-control. Uh, last little topic we'll jump into.

Giga Churches Health Or Hype

SPEAKER_02

This is an interesting one that's been popping up. We know churches, mid-sized churches, small churches, hometown churches. We know mega churches. But have you heard of a giga church? A giga church is a church that goes beyond, I think they say uh uh mega church is about 3,000 to 6,000 members-ish.

SPEAKER_00

I it used to be like 1,500. I thought was the they may have changed that. Okay. It's been like I guess seminary taught us like 15 years ago now.

SPEAKER_02

So now they're talking like 10,000 plus.

SPEAKER_03

So is 10,000 the gig the gig the giga.

SPEAKER_02

Is this is this a sign of a healthy church? Or is this a signal of something bad? So churches so should we have giga churches in the body of Christ? Is that is that weird? Is that off?

SPEAKER_03

If the people are coming, you shouldn't turn them away. I would say that. Um if you got if you got healthy processes and ways to serve them and care for them and disciple them, then um I'm I mean the thought that I don't agree with I could be wrong. I don't agree with everybody needs to know the lead pastor. Um I don't agree with if your church is over the size where he can't have a personal relationship with everyone, then your church is too big. I think that is because there can be other pastors, other leaders that can serve and help. We do that here. Like pastors, like our church is at the point where uh it's not a mega church, but it's uh Pastor Jason cannot serve every single person, he can't have lunch with every member of the church. Yeah, you know, he would be out of time, you know. And so we have a lot of really good leaders that are able to care for and disciple and build community and things like that. So I think as long as you have the have a way to serve and love and disciple the people, then keep if the people keep coming, yeah, keep growing.

SPEAKER_00

Could not agree more. There I've been a part of small churches that are unhealthy, um, and also seen from a distance larger churches that are unhealthy. I don't think the size of a church makes it healthy or not healthy. It's the you know, the priorities, the values that they have, the things that they institute and and uh ensure that the body is being cared for. I do think there are some things that every local church should exhibit and they should have that makes it a local church. And because there is a temptation, I I so a small church has temptations, larger church has temptations, and some of the temptations for a larger church are is to create spectators, is to create consumers. I would say, and again, that that's not that's I'm just identifying, in my opinion, the the temptation that a larger church mostly has. Um and smaller churches have, you know, they create dependence, they create, you know, uh a lack of growth stagnancy, there's a potential there for unhealth as well. But the unhealth of a mega church or a large church is to create consumers and spectators that come and salve a conscience by being in the presence of people that are doing ministry and never feel provoked to be ministers. And I think if if those are are prioritized and they're valued and they are pushed, encouraged to provoke the body to do the work of the ministry rather than just coming to consume a product on a stage, whatever the size is. I mean, I Acts chapter two, they go from 120 to 3,000 in one day. Yeah. So you're looking at those numbers, and of course they spread out, they were scattered, but that those are 3,000 in one day. And so I I don't think there's a limit on um, there's some very healthy churches. So the whole small group idea came from a church in South Korea, the largest church in the world. Um, just and but they do community well, they do discipleship well, they encourage the the church to um to grow and develop. Uh, they do prayer really well from what I've heard. And so I just think it's it's what you what you prioritize and and what you make uh an emphasis and the things that you don't allow to be a part of uh your your body as a small church, medium-sized church, or a large church. I don't think that's just a uh a measure or something that you could quantify to say because it's large, it's automatically unhealthy. Or to say, which is on the other side, some people say because it's large, it's automatically effective, just because it's large. And I don't think that's the case either. Because some things grow because they're infected, because they swell. Um, and so you can have some things that just because it's large does not mean that it's is good. Uh and I there's so many more factors that go into the health of a church than just the size. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think for me, I I feel like I'm a product of a newer church age where it's like very seen. A lot of churches are the most seen they have ever been in the history of humanity. Ever. So, yes, I see a lot of the mega churches. I do this this conversation is is sparked because Ruslan just dropped a documentary on Pastor Joe B Martin out of Miami or somewhere in Florida, and his church is Jacksonville, his church is considered a giga church. They last month they had a baptism of 3,000 people at one time getting baptized. And so people are like, that's great, but at what point are we just talking about numbers? Are you actually effective? What it blah blah blah. And so in watching that documentary, I think what I walked away with is the surrounding community.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Do they know and feel your presence? Is the surrounding the radius around your church or the radius of your impact in your local body, no matter how big or small it is, do they know the Christians are here? The Christians gather here, the the city is better, the um e commerce is better. Like, like, what are you affecting outside of your um church grounds? Are you known anywhere else? I feel like that's that's the difference between like a university and a church. University sometimes is just like you know where Chapel Hill is because Chapel Hill is right here. But then you go up the street, and unfortunately, you get to NC State, and NC State is sitting right there, and then you go across the street and it's like Duke is uh it's all right, it's sort of sitting right there. But it's like there they're siloed. That was a random shot at NC State.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. No, that was good. That was a good breakdown. Keep going.

SPEAKER_02

No, it's just these siloed institutions, but I feel like the church is more webbed, it's more connected. We take over areas, we take over land, like there should be presence felt. So if you're just a large church for a large church sake, and everybody just knows, oh, that's the church over there, but there's no impact, there's nothing felt, then I feel like that's bad. I'll look back at like Abraham being very nomadic. Um, the nearest city knew where Abraham was and they had a good relationship with each other. Sometimes those cities would end up prospering because Abraham was in the vicinity of that city. And I feel like churches should work the same way. And if that's off, I don't care how many kids' programs you have, how many interest groups you have a kayak ministry, sure. But like, where is the discipleship? Do people know that you are here? Is the city improving because of your impact?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. And uh one of the things I like about some of these churches, like I felt like 15 years ago, um, everybody, it was kind of like we talked about it before, like the seeker-sensitive stuff. It was a lot of, it felt like a lot of extra things that looked like it was making the churches grow. Um, it was a lot of lights, it was a lot of smoke, and it was just a lot of stuff going on that felt like um very certain, you know, it felt like the word that was being preached was a lot of extra stuff to try to get people interested. But to be able to see people just singing, singing worship songs together and good biblical preaching, not with not a lot of extra smoke and mirrors uh going on. I I'm not saying if you have smoke and lights, that is bad, but it doesn't feel like they're trying to get people to sell them something. It doesn't feel like a bait and switch. Yeah like before it felt like okay, we're gonna get you in because we got good coffee and this and that. Yeah, like it feels like God's growing his church here included, with just saying, hey, we're not telling you something, we're inviting you to a completely different life, and this is what we're basing it on. And it feels like you know, God is really growing his church with people just worshiping God and and reading the learning the Bible together and talking about who God is and declaring his word without extra things, and that's that's just a beautiful thing to see. If they was growing, if they were growing, I might have something to say if they were growing their church by saying, Yeah, everybody comes here, get free pizza and Starbucks. But it's like you're seeing the church being grown off of just worshiping God and preaching his word, and that that's a beautiful thing to see.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. And I mentioned acts, like so there, there is a uh, there should be, in my opinion, a growth and expansion to anything that's healthy. There should be, and what and the measure of that, I don't want to quantify that at all. Like that's that's whatever you know, Jesus said in the sea, there's 30, 60, and a hundredfold. There's some churches that at their fullest capacity may not become large at all. But there anything that's healthy does expand, it feeds, it nourishes the community and it grows. People are interested in it. And I think that's where kind of the secret-sensitive movement came from is because they saw in the book of Acts that the church was growing. And so, in my opinion, they jumped over the processes of it to just try to get the growth without the the what was the what was the bait? What was the the drawing in? What were people really looking for? Why did people follow Jesus? Why did why did he feed 5,000 men plus women and children? That almost 20,000 people gather to hear this man talk. That's that's not a you know that's that's uh of course it's Christ, but that's uh people are interested in what he's saying. And that I think that should be a a product of where the word of God is preached. People should be intrigued. It should create opposition too. It should create uh people that are are trying to destroy it, trying to tear it down. That's a product of it as well. But there also should be intrigue for the human soul that is like that's water that I've never heard before. That's bread that I've never heard, and I'm hungry, and I want to I want to hear what's being said. There'll be reception of it and rejection of it. But I think wherever the word to your point, like, so it's not in a silo, it's not in a um just a healthy shirt should not be, you know, we're on our way to heaven and we're gonna lock our doors and and wait for Jesus to come back and get us. No, this this news is so good. We got to go tell somebody that this is what's happening in uh what Christ has done in my life or in our our friends' life, and so I think there should be some healthy growth to anything that is healthy. Um, but you obviously cannot subvert the process because then you subvert the process, you get the result, but you you it it won't stand um uh with a house that's not built on the rock.

SPEAKER_03

I also enjoy that now. I feel like you're seeing a bunch of different um types of church services. Like I feel like at one point it was like everybody was doing these conferences, and it's like if you want to grow, you have to do it this way. Yeah, it was like you you can't, Pastor Jason, you you can only preach 30 minutes. Yeah, all right, and then we gotta do four services of that. You know, and it's like then we gotta, it was like a all systems thing. Yeah. I mean, I even heard the pastor you mentioned, like he's like, I'm not changing, I'm preaching 55 minutes. He's like, I'm that's uh that's what I that's what I'm doing. You know, I'm not preaching, he's like, I'm not, I'm not preaching 30 minutes. I don't feel like a 30-minute preacher, you know. He's like, you know, and it's like, you know, you feel like um you feel you felt it felt like everybody was pushing everybody to do the same structure and the same service, but you're seeing his church grow a certain way. You're seeing uh Pastor uh Philip Anthony Mitchell, his church, the completely different feel with his service, and that's growing, God's hands on that. Same thing with here. Our services are two hours long. People would tell you that that's not how you grow a church, and the church is growing. Yeah, you know, it's like it's it's beautiful seeing different expressions, different service times, different types of preaching. So um, you know, there's a lot of people say you can only you can only preach verse by verse, yeah, you know, and that's the only way to do it. And I don't, I don't, I, you know, you're seeing some people do that, the church is growing, yeah, and some people are topical and the church is growing. Yeah, it's like, you know, I think it's it's beautiful seeing all these different, you're seeing non-denominational churches, you're seeing Reformed Baptist churches, you're seeing uh Protestant uh churches, Orthodox, yeah, and they're all growing, and it's growing, and when you look into it, nine times 9.9 times out of 10, it's they're exalting Christ in their worship services, and God is God is growing it.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it's authentic, like it's who they are. And I I think that's the that was the struggle. And I've I felt it, our church felt it a lot when we were so we were when we started, was right in the middle of that movement, and we felt it a lot about the cookie-cutter way of doing ministry. And there were, I mean, we had meetings, discussion, it was like, is that what we're supposed to be? Is this how we're supposed to act? And I I'm so thankful for uh, you know, my dad and other ministers that were like, no, you as a church, you guys as a church, what has God called you to be? And there were there were um you know differing opinions on that. And but there was freedom to be authentic, there was freedom to be who you were, who you are. And I I I think it post-COVID, I think there's really been a desire for something real. And in my short life, I've never I've never seen that much of a desire for post-2020. And I think that's why churches are all different kinds, because people are looking for something authentic. They can identify something fake very quickly. And if it's not you, if you're trying to be something or somebody else that's not you, they're gonna pick it out fast, but they are wanting something real and they're wanting something true. And I think that's why Christianity, in my opinion, is is is expanding. Um, because there's there's been a hunger for, because we're we're and more again in my lifetime, I hate to be a prisoner of the moment, but I've never seen a distrust for everything else as much as I feel it right now, personally and also societally. Like there's a distrust for everything, there's a distrust for entertainment, there's a distrust for government, there's a distrust for, you know, uh societal things that were, you know, normally the authoritative voices, and there's just a distrust there, and people want something real because I think we've we've figured out we've been lied to by a lot of places, and and we want some someone to tell us the truth. Um, and Jesus is not scared of our searching, our looking. He's not scared of our introduction to other religions or other philosophies. In fact, he'll let all of those play their course, which they have, in my opinion. They have played their course to anybody that is looking, they have ran their race and they have come up lacking. They have come up short of watering the thirst of a hungry person. And that's when Jesus stands there, I've been waiting for you the whole time. And I think that's what we're seeing. And I and you know, I know very little, I've never heard a full sermon by him. I I've seen him on social media, uh, the pastor that you guys were talking about. And to me, again, I can't speak to his character, his integrity, but to me, he seems very authentic in who he is. He just feels like this is who I am. I'm gonna share it, preach the gospel. I don't have to look or be like anybody else. Um, this is just what I'm gonna share and preach. And I love to see, I'm rooting for, I'm rooting for the body of Christ to grow and expand and all this different diversity and variety, and that that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02

Amen. The Bible says, if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto myself. That's what Jesus says. The way that he draws people to himself is his uh sovereignty.

SPEAKER_06

Amen.

SPEAKER_02

He might draw 10,000 people in a single building to himself, yeah, or three in a room. That's right. Yeah, right here with us. Yep at that. Beautiful circle. Hey, come on, take away.

Stay Authentic And Don’t Chase Size

SPEAKER_00

And and I would really encourage like pastors and churches not to look down on your church if yours isn't the size of somebody else's, or if yours, if if if there is if there's love there, there's community there, there's health there. Like, don't don't despise uh a local pastor who is serving 60 people well. Like, don't don't despise that and say he's not as valuable as someone who has 10,000 members. Like that's just that I think that's where the enemy creeps in. And really in in this last generation where the the pastors were like, well, I I have to do because I want to, I'm I think I have something to offer. I want to be what everybody thinks I need to be. And and I would just encourage, as a if you go to a church and your family is being fed, your family is being cared for, prize that assembly, prize those people. Um, and if you're if you're go to a large church and you're seeing great, there they have more access to resources, more uh uh, you know, access to to you know making impact, as you mentioned. They have they have resources to be able to bless the community and bless um other uh other uh places. Enjoy that, but also be intentional about not just being a knot on the log, not just associating with something, but not investing in something. And I think that would be a huge instruction for somebody that's a part of a larger church. Just don't just don't be an association with goodness, be an investment in the goodness that they're producing.

SPEAKER_02

Amen. Amen to all that. Actually, it's side note. I actually want to go to like all the major big megachurches. Like I want to sit in the room. I want to see, I want to go to Oklahoma and Miami and Atlanta and Texas. And I just I genuinely just want to do a little trip around America, going to all these megachurches just to see what it is like to actually be in the room with these people and see how these saints are doing church in this particular part. Because the way that California does church wouldn't work in Louisiana. Yeah, it's just it's different people, different, different assignments, different missions. You know, it's like the church of Philippi and the Church of Galatia. They go on do church differently. Yeah, and I just want to be in a room with

Closing Thanks And See You Next Time

SPEAKER_02

them. But we appreciate y'all for being in the room with us.

SPEAKER_04

Man, that was such a good segue. Goodness gracious.

SPEAKER_02

I can't hype myself up because that's pride. Anyway, we appreciate y'all for listening. We will see y'all next time.