How to Date As A Christian

A relationship can feel effortless and still be wrong for your future, and that’s the tension we sit in today. A listener texts us from North Carolina asking for Christian dating advice: he’s pursuing a woman he really likes, the connection feels natural, but they keep bumping heads on what they want out of life. He’s praying, but he doesn’t feel like he’s hearing anything from God. So what do you do when the chemistry is strong, the questions are serious, and heaven feels quiet?

We dig into practical discernment that goes beyond a “checklist” or a rush to find “the one.” We talk about naming nonnegotiables early, learning the difference between preferences and convictions, and why conflict in dating can actually be useful because it reveals how both people communicate under pressure. We also ask the harder spiritual questions: Are you growing closer to Christ together, or just enjoying each other’s presence? Are you moving in the same direction with a similar hunger for God, even if your maturity levels differ?

Then we get concrete about overthinking and fear. We unpack what a sober decision looks like, why boundaries matter, how fasting and wise counsel can clear the noise, and why your personal walk with God has to be strong before you try to steward someone else’s heart. We close with a bold prayer that can change everything: “If it’s not Your will, shut it down.”

If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s dating, and leave a review so more people can find it. What’s one nonnegotiable you wish you had named sooner?

Transcript

Welcome And How To Text Us

SPEAKER_05 0:00

This is the Deeper Roots Podcast with four hosts talking about a range of topics from life to godliness. I got Chris, RJ, Pastor Jason, and myself, Jay Zay. I'm Jay today, guys. Man, RJ is not here. He's on a family vacation at the beach. So blessings and peace to him as he's uh out there with the family. And uh, we are gathered here today for another podcast episode. Gathered here. Also, I want to say it now because I always forget to say it and say at the end. If you want to text a pod and you got a question, a topic, a reaction, we want to hear from you. Click into the episode. If you're listening on any podcast platform, hit that send a text button. You can send an anonymous message to us and we will get to it and read it. And if you're watching on YouTube, comment down below. It's not anonymous. We will call you out, but we appreciate all the conversations that we have going on.

World Cup Takes And Sports Debates

SPEAKER_05 0:55

Speaking about conversations going on, the World Cup is in its final stretches. Chris, have you been watching the greatest game ever on TV right now?

SPEAKER_04 1:08

No, because it's not on. Um you even got the TV cut on. Nah, I'm talking about the greatest game ever is not on. Oh my goodness. The World Cup. It's cool. I mean, I watched the USA. Um a little disappointed. But for the most part, it's I just can't, man. They just run around way too long with the lack of scoring for me. I need more. Maybe if it was more goals. I'm sitting here trying to figure it out, the passing and all that stuff. Yeah, I'm saying, like, I don't even play soccer, but some of this stuff, even I know you should have kicked it to this person or that person. And I feel like you had a better chance. But it's just, it's just something for cardio, if you ask me. Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Sorry. Man, he don't know. I I really do hate the fact that that was your experience watching America. I know, because we were and we were texting about it, and the fact that you turned on the American game when they they looked horrible. I wish you could have watched uh the game or two before and caught the fever with us, but that was a tough game to watch.

SPEAKER_05 2:10

That was that was not enjoyable at all. And there was so much build-up and lead up, and they freed my boy, and he was back out there, and and they did nothing. Yeah. No, I think they lost like four four one or three-one. 4-1. It was a horrible performance from the USA. So we focus our sights on other teams. We got uh France, Spain, Norway, and Argentina are uh all about to face off this week, which is gonna be super excited. I'm going for France because that team is stacked. But Chris doesn't care at all. Um, he won't be he doesn't care who wins or loses. He's waiting on basketball. Football. Football is about to come around, so we'll be good there. That would be exciting. That would be exciting. And Wimbledon's going on right now. And uh, I think track and field is do has some really big meets coming up too. So there's a lot happening in this in the sports world. What's happening in y'all's

Aging Knees And Sunday Basketball Runs

SPEAKER_05 3:02

life? Anything fun or new with the fam or things God is teaching you this week, or what's going on for y'all?

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Bro, I'm getting old. And I realized it on Tuesday. Uh-oh. I had my first, I didn't do a single thing but think about something and had my knee to start hurting. Like so much so that I had to go to the doctor yesterday and they were like, We need wanting to stab your knee with a needle. I said, That's okay. We can figure this out later. You got needle knees? They wanted to do steroid. Well, they don't really think it's my knee. He said, My knee is actually perfectly healthy, but it may be back issue, which is triggering sciatica. So they gave me a pill to take, and he said, just monitor it. And then if that doesn't work, I may have to go to PT to strengthen my back. But at the end of the day, it still want me to, they still want me to work out.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

So it's not like it's hindering the thing I want to do. It's just I got to get to the point that I can do it and not be in pain just from thinking about doing something. I literally was just like, I'm just gonna go to the gym after I get off work today and turn around. I was like, why'd my knee hurt? And then all of a sudden, it just kept hurting, and I could barely bend it. But I'm still gonna get to that basketball court. So at some point. So we're out there every Sunday.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Every Sunday we out there, which the runs lately. Shout out to everybody that's been coming out to the basketball runs. We've been talking about it a little bit before the pod. They're they're getting more and more competitive. And some of your your favorite church leaders, hey, they be out there chirping, and I don't got enough salvation to see your title. I don't care who, senior, whatever, pastor, deacon, psalmist. I we're gonna get these buttons.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Why is it all the conflict always has you had? Like it is. Like, but it's always you. I'm I don't know, man. It's a conspiracy for real. I think I think that was the first time that when we played, it's been years ago that when we played, like you've all you're always respectful, you're always courteous, and but I think that was the first time you said Jay.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

You're like, you're like checkball, Jay.

SPEAKER_05 5:15

I was like, oh yeah, bro. I forget everything.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

It was really an intentional break in any type of protocol. Like, I respect it. Let's go.

SPEAKER_05 5:27

I tell my I tell my wife these stories after the game, and she's like, I'm gonna come out there and watch because it ain't no way it's happening the way that you happen it. But I honestly, I don't talk to people on the court, but the moment you start talking trash to me about me, yeah, I've watched too much battle rap. Not to get in my feelings, and I'm gonna start talking. Oh my gosh. But it the runs have been super fun, but it's so interesting to see that competitive switch happen in everybody's eyes, and it starts getting a little more physical and a little more chirpy, and but we always dap up after the game. Do y'all pray before the game? Come on, you know, come on, Elder. I'm be honest with you. The last two weeks I've been praying. And I think that that is the only thing that has kept me. I'm starting to pray. Like a few weeks ago, Holy Spirit was like, you probably pray for this game. I started praying, and those the last two weeks were the most chippyest, most people we've ever had type of games. But we always dap up at the end of it, it's always good fun. Uh, everybody says they're gonna come back. People are starting to bring other people, and I'm hoping that if my uh humanity doesn't scare people away, that they go from the court to the courts of praise. You feel me? They they they transition from the three-point line to the trinity.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

So so you're using the chirpiness of a evangelism, it's an evangelistic tool.

SPEAKER_05 6:57

Come on, man.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

You're setting up walls if they can make it through this. They can deal with that, they can deal with the devil, they can deal with temptation, all of that.

SPEAKER_05 7:07

You you can't tell me David didn't have a little chip on his shoulder. A little bit. I mean, he's no denying warrior king, he's out here. You feel me? You can't tell me Elijah outrunning horses and being like, bro, you can't catch me. I mean, you see what happened at the altar. He was like, keep calling on your God and see what happens. Like, you feel me? He had the little vibrato. We all know Peter, you feel me? Even Jesus, I think he never mind. I'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

I can talk about my savior like that. No, but I I have I have thought about coming, especially the last few weeks, the way you built it up. Yeah, but I I don't want to come and like people not be like that because I'm there. And so that's what I'm fearful of a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Like, I want to be there, I want to hide. I want, but I want to see. I want to see it in its in its fullest form.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Like, I want to see all of it. Pull up, man. Not pull up to play, pull up to watch. No, you can't. Because I'm not, I'm not. I just I'm I'm years past that. Like there's nothing in me that wants to get out there with y'all. Really?

SPEAKER_05 8:10

I mean, in my dreams, like in my imaginations, but I think what's gonna happen is you're gonna pull up to watch, but you're gonna have your shoes in the car. And it's gonna become a point where you're like, ah, I wanna be out there.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

It's hard to teach somebody about life and godliness when they just hung 28 on you.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Like it's it's hard to stand up in authority. You just got your hands up, bro. Like, it's so I just just probably probably better not to get in it.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

But no, I I desire to, and I may I may get it in side. That's gonna be fun. I'll get out there, I'll get out there if Chris gets out there.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

My goal is to get back out there some more. Let me get these old knees fixed and we'll be good. Get that needle, man. Go ahead. I'll meet you out there.

SPEAKER_05 9:02

Anyway, moving on.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Speaking of bravado, you got a lot of young 30 bravado. Wait till you get in your 40s, man.

SPEAKER_05 9:10

Wait till you're you know hey, Father Time comes to us all, and I'm gonna use everything I got now. Flaunted a little bit until I ain't gonna lie.

Pickleball Competition And Getting Older

SPEAKER_05 9:19

So we're playing pickleball lately. I'm still out there, you know, playing pickleball and stuff. Me and wifey still out there playing uh uh pickleball. I'm starting to get more competitive, and I'm like, I kind of want to go ranked in pickleball because it's like they have their tournaments and all this. Uh uh. The other day, try to go for a little backhand slice. Did an extra lunge. I lunged more than I thought I should. I tried to lunge. Buddy, there's a muscle from you that's connected from your knee to your groin. And I was like, whoa. My wife was like, Why you limping? I tried to do a backhand and I lunged too much. So, yes, I'm starting to feel the the waves of time are starting to lap up against the shores of pickleball injuries. Yes, pickleball about dragons injury over pickleball, man.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah, change if it if you did hurt it, change the story before you start telling it. Like it was something else happening.

SPEAKER_04 10:25

I'm just being honest. Well, before you transition and and go to the different version of your story, how old were your opponents?

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_05 10:35

Okay, so no, they was not old folk, it was not the aunties this time. It wasn't the aunties, it wasn't the uncles, and like that. What's happening is more younger people are starting to find pickleball, like they find tennis. So wherever there's a tennis court, there's now a pickleball court. So the competition is actually aging lower into like the 20s, the 30s-ish. And they're coming out there with a background of like lacrosse and a background of tennis and a background of like of Batman and all these things, and they're competitive. I'm like, if I'm not gonna let the 60-year-old man beat me, I'm not letting no 24-year-old come out here, and and then I then I start pulling muscles.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

You you are the problem.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

It's basketball and pickleball. No, but your your your uh monologue was impressive there. Like the narrative that you formed was impressive. But anytime I've ever seen pickleball, the average age is at least 72 and a half. It is. Um, so I don't know what trends you're watching or what what you've been uh paying attention to.

SPEAKER_05 11:38

About to my neighborhood, you'll see them. They out there, they are out there, but uh we're gonna jump into our our topic a little earlier than usual this week because we have a really good, solid topic for one of our

Listener Question On Dating Direction

SPEAKER_05 11:51

viewers. We appreciate you, Lexington, uh, North Carolina. We got text that came in, and uh, I was reading this and I was like, oh, this is gonna be really interesting to discuss with the guys. So listen up. Tech says, What's up, fellas? I really enjoyed the show. I listen to it all the time, and many of our conversations have been encouraging. And I have L reader. What in the world? I can't read this. That is crazy, and have helped me in my walk with Christ. Now I know you all are married, and I'm seeking your wisdom on dating. I have been pursuing this young lady, and it's going well and feels very natural between us. However, we bump heads when discussing our desires and what we want out of life. Now I have a tendency to overthink and I struggle with moving forward if things aren't adding up. I have been seeking the Lord on if I should cut ties or continue, but I haven't heard anything. I just like to hear your guys' perspective since you all have been married uh for a while. Now, how do you guys feel about diving into something and you're assessing it, and I like this young lady, or um things in life where you guys are going is not lighting up, but you're seeking God, but you ain't hearing anything. Where are you at with it?

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Chris is our neighborhood relationship expert. So that's what I was looking at. There you go. Come on, Chris.

Nonnegotiables Versus Preferences In Love

SPEAKER_02 13:22

How's the pastor gonna start off? You give great relationships.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

I mean, that's a tough one, I guess, because I don't know what those desires that are distinguishing the two differences. Because I think that for example, I think a lot of times, um, depending on what it is and how they're viewing it and what the disconnect is, depends on how they're looking at it. Um a lot of times people get into arguments over certain things because their focus is a little different. Uh so if he has the desire for kids and she doesn't, that's a pretty big issue. Um I think for me personally at this age and stage in life, things that I know that I will not be willing to change, um, things I know that like this, I'm very adamant. So and I'm using a kid for a certain reason. Um for like example, if I wanted a child, I would bring that to the forefront of the conversation early in dating so that I'm not now in love trying to backtrack if I should walk away because there were desires I wanted that I knew I was gonna want, but I didn't bring them up at a time that I should have. Because at that point I could have decided, well, if they don't want kids, then I can walk away. But now that you're in it, you now have to understand and see can we compromise together? I think it's good that they're having issues because it shows it how you handle those moments. Those conversations because when you get in marriage, it's a whole different ball game, and it's gonna be a lot of things you're gonna bump heads over, some serious, some not so serious, but you get to at least see how your partner operates with you when they have a different opinion or view of you. I'm not necessarily saying I don't think you should leave. I think that God has given you enough wisdom to understand the difference of um someone that's hindering you from spiritual growth versus personal growth. Because I think a lot of times for me, the growth that I've had is when I get into an argument now with my wife, God doesn't show me her, he shows me me and then what I fell short in, and how could I have addressed it differently? Because in this moment, it could be him growing and preparing the young man to be able to handle these situations and lead her in proper communication for the future if everything else is going well. It sounds like they're just having, okay, is it that the desire of wanting kids versus not wanting kids? She don't want them, I do that's where we're bumping heads, or is it in the communication of what we desire, we can't get across to each other?

SPEAKER_05 15:50

There's a lot of things in this text message that really stick out to me, but I want to play the role the best I can of the person. I'm gonna ask you guys some questions to bounce off of. So what you're saying, Chris, is it depends on the topic of discussion. So if it's something heavier and weightier like having kids, or something lighter like our careers, now it's career is light.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

Because some people have placed the fact of it's not that I don't want, because it could be that because of career, now I'm willing to move certain places. Yes. I don't want to do certain things in my life because my career is more of a focus, whereas the other person may want a family or may not want to move because of their career. So it's like who gives up their career at that time to be able to live. So that's a heavy topic too, actually.

SPEAKER_05 16:38

So are all so I'm trying to think of a lighter topic of because even like I want to live in the country and versus I want to live in the city. That feels like a light topic when you're just talking, but then it's like, well, you're talking about where you want to live, where you want to establish your home. Dang, that's a lot. That's a lot of back and forth there.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Uh Chris, I think your point is is is so well said of establishing what are your non-negotiables and making those very clear. One, I just commend him for I think that's what I I think dating gets a bad rap sometimes just because you know there's a conversation around biblical, you know, all the all those type type things. But I think dating is wise because you get to make these decisions and you have the uh autonomy to make those decisions now. And so I commend him for having those discussions with her in this stage, turning over every rock that you possibly can in this stage, um, and then knowing yourself well enough. I agree, early as you can, these are my non-negotiable. These are the things that I don't care how long we do this, if I lay down this, I'll be changing a part of who I am. I'll be changing something that I value. And I don't think you ever wanna wanna date somebody where uh you want them to change something that they really you know prioritize as part of their identity. Um so, but other than that, like marriage is a compromise. Like you're you're gonna have to uh preferences, things that you enjoy. So I was just thinking as you were talking, like city and country, like there may be times where you're not gonna find somebody that has checks off 100% of the boxes and you guys see everything exactly the same way. If that was the case, you wouldn't need love. Love is there because you you do have differences and you choose to self-sacrificially lay down some of those preferences for the sake of someone else's preferences. And and that's that's love. That's exactly what uh agape love does is self-sacrificial, other focused love. And that's nothing will teach you that like marriage will. Um, but there are some things that you can see a lot of times people they get married and they they wake up 20 years later like I don't even know who I am, or I've lost everything that I've I that who I prioritized, everything that I felt like was who I was, and I gave it up for the sake of marriage. Um, and I think you know, knowing who you are at first and and grounding in those things and finding somebody, the Bible talks about how can you walk together unless you agree. Finding some things that this is who I am, and then finding someone that uh relates to those two or three things, and then everything else compromise, everything else work together, everything else be willing to lay down, um, everything else be willing uh all almost to honor and desire their preferences above yours, but never at the the point of losing one, your salvation, two, your calling, your identity, like who you are in Christ. Uh, those things should never be compromised for the sake of preferences. Um, and then other than that, just uh it's it's nothing but molding and and working together to find out what's best for the group, and you'll have to give up some, she'll have to give up some. And if one side is the only one giving it up, then it's probably not a great love relationship there anyway.

SPEAKER_05 20:15

But Pastor, this is the most natural that I have ever felt with somebody who I've never met before. It feels like we're going well, it feels the most natural. We're staying up uh all night talking and just chit-chat. No sin, nothing going crazy, but I just I feel so connected to this person. Isn't that a sign that God wants this to happen?

SPEAKER_04 20:43

I was gonna wait because he said past elder.

Natural Chemistry Versus Spiritual Fruit

SPEAKER_04 20:48

But elder. Um so there's so much in that, and it seems such a simple question. But example, I used to think that there was more like growing up, and people you can laugh if you want, but I used to be like, oh man, you know, God has that particular person for me, that one, and I'm gonna have her. And then I started thinking, and then the scripture says, He who finds a wife. So that means I must be looking for her, and it doesn't mean that but it doesn't say he who finds that one woman that I created just for him. Um, and there's people that you're gonna get along with that ain't bringing you closer to God than your television watching the basketball and football all day. But you enjoy it, ain't no sin going on until you realize just how far you got away from God because that's time you did not put in if he asked you for that time. Um and even though I'm not saying that's not the connection, but you don't base the all the connection just off how natural and free it is, because again, you still need to check it against. But where is my walk with God in this? Are you helping me fulfill what I feel God has given me in purpose in life? Um, am I helping you? Am I being a good steward for you as well? Are we growing together towards God or are we just enjoying each other's presence? Because I can enjoy a lot of people's presence. Right, there's a lot of people I'm naturally cool with and get along with, but it doesn't mean I'm supposed to be with them in that manner, shape, fashion, or form. Doesn't mean you shouldn't either, though. Um I think again, it bases off in that add to now that's great. And how are you growing with God or how close are you getting to God now that you have this person in your life? I think about when you were talking about Charlotte one time and dating, and you referenced how she would be like, Well, have you prayed about it? Like, y'all were getting along. She was doing, but she still hit you with that when the situation came up. Have you prayed about it? And that's a different spin on it than what other because most people just go into natural advice or whatever you may feel. But for her to go back and say that, I think was is what I'm talking about as an example of how is she putting you back to Christ or how is that pulling you back to Christ?

SPEAKER_05 23:10

So there's natural connection, but then there's also very strong check markers for spiritual growth. For spiritual growth that we should be, or we should still be looking for. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Good.

Make A Sober Decision

SPEAKER_02 23:19

I and I I think it's important to, and I just gave this advice to uh to someone a couple weeks ago. When when you're at that moment, it sounds like he is thinking about is this the person I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with? My advice would be is to eliminate as many fleshly um opportunities as possible so that you can make a decision with wisdom. So, of course, you know, and and I would encourage fasting uh during this time because it is of course when you marry someone, they're gonna it should be fleshly things that you enjoy, that you like soulish things that you enjoy, connections and mental uh conversations and emotional connections, all those things, physical connections. But when you're getting to the point of uh marriage, I believe, as it eliminate as many uh physical temptations as possible so that you can make a deeper decision because everything physical is gonna change. It's gonna come up and down, and even the emotional mental connection that you mentioned earlier, that's gonna, it's gonna change based on right now. You don't have you don't have kids, you don't have uh, you know, and so you can sit there and and talk for two hours, and then when you get uh your kids and careers and all that, you you're not gonna have that time to be able to do that. So it has to be even a deeper connection than even that soulish connection. Um and and yeah, I I think it's the the scripture gives us wisdom about being equally yoked. And and that doesn't mean that you know they have to be at the same spiritual level as you are, but I do think they have to be walking in that same direction at the this at a hunger, at a pace, the same way as yours. And I I think that's there's very little to your point, instruction in scripture about you know who to marry. It gives us a lot of wisdom about how to be married and how to love someone well. But the the who is is there's wisdom that goes into that, there's counsel that goes into that. And just my my wisdom would be eliminate as many physical uh for for a moment while you're praying about it, eliminate all the and even go a week or so and say we're gonna separate from talking for a little bit so that we can pray into is this where we're supposed to be for our future? Yeah, so that you're not contaminated or polluted by soulish or physical things that that would uh sway your decisions and let them be made from a much deeper level than that. And and obviously led by the the voice of the Lord and wise counsel around you, um, I think would would be important to

Emotions Cannot Lead Your Discernment

SPEAKER_02 26:07

think about.

SPEAKER_05 26:07

Yeah, I think um in my dating process, I relied heavily on my emotions for my leadership. It feels right, therefore it is. Good. It doesn't feel right, therefore it's wrong. Good. Um uh I have my own list of things I'm looking for. And if it doesn't match up with this list, that means you're not the one. And then I would try to like take my emotions and prescribe Holy Spirit leadership to it afterwards. Does that make sense? Yeah, like I'm I'm leading with my emotions, and then I go to God and be like, Well, my emotions are telling me this. Can you confirm my emotions? Then I'm reminded of Psalms 34, 7, I think it is. And it says, uh, delight in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart. So, what that's telling me is this I've been doing it backwards. I've been taking my emotions and desires and then trying to find the delight in God in it. When I need to go the other way and I need a delight first, what is my personal life looking like? What's my personal mental health looking like with God? What is my heart partial with God? And then going, God, tell me what I need to desire. Because I thought I wanted a Latin girl. I did. I thought I was gonna bring a Latino girl, we were gonna have little Latin babies, and that wasn't the case. I thought that I wanted somebody who had a little bit of street in them, you know, a little bit of rough around the edges, but there's like a diamond in the rough, you know, a little bit of hood, but she can still be holy. And that was my desire, and that was not God's desire for me. I thought that I was gonna go from uh college straight to marriage. I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna find a wonderful girl come in every Bible study group. By the way, I was not in that single Bible study group in college at all. And then we're gonna go straight from there. I'm gonna marry this girl, blah, blah, blah. I thought that was my path. It wasn't. Yeah, so it's like, okay, God, now I gotta restructure, re-evaluate, and unlearn all of my leading emotions to find yours. And that's extremely difficult when I feel like I am so connected with this one person. Yeah, and the part that stands up about me, stands out to me about the text message is he said that I'm just pursuing her. There's no commitment yet.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:14

So we're early in the process. And I feel like um look, this goes back to Genesis in the Garden of Eden for me. The fruit on the tree looks good from a distance. Yeah, it looks like it's really good. It's like, wow, I've never had this afore. This is different. This is a type like um, like when dating my wife, my wife changed my entire identity idea of body type and type of individual and type of person to have a conversation with. Like it all these new, this newness was so real and relevant. I was like, wow, this must be what, this must be what people say where you fall in love at first sight. I think I'm I think it's happening. It's happening, God. And it's like, no, there's a re-evaluation I have to do of taking my delighting in God instead of my own emotions.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

That's good. And I want to make that point because you you made it too. Like, when I say make a decision deeper, it I'm not saying maybe the Holy Spirit will do this. That was not my case, but I believe he can to say, you know, this is your wife, this is who you need to marry. When I when I'm I'm saying make a decision deeper, I I would encourage young men not to uh not to feel like that has to be the way that it's always done. This is your wife, you need to go marry. When I say make a decision deeper, the word you used was soberly, which is is such a great word for this. And that's why I say you eliminate as many uh intoxicating temptations so that you can make a decision soberly. Can I still love her if you know everything changes outwardly? Can I still love her? Are we still walking in the same directions? Do we still share uh the same passions, that type stuff? And those are sober decisions. And then it doesn't, if the Holy Spirit tells you this is your wife, go marry her, praise the Lord, I believe it can happen. But even if he doesn't, um that there has to be a decision that's grounded, that's not, you're not falling into something. You're wisely, with the help of the Holy Spirit, with wisdom, with counsel, you're making a decision that's uh that's a sober decision. You know what you're getting into. Um, and as much as you can, uh you're aware of the contingencies, you're aware of of the factors that go into it. And so it's a sober-minded decision rather than an intoxicated one.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

Yeah, I want to go back to the latter, latter part of his question, but this reminds me, so I in the dating process loved hearing how other couples met. That was like my my guiding stick of like, well, if it worked for this person that I value and that's how they met their person, then maybe I can see a type in a shadow of how that works for me. So my my dad met my mom in the club and he walked up to her, he probably had a little drink, and he like my dad would tell the story. I started fell in love with her, I was military, yada, yada. And then within like the first week of meeting my mom, he turns to her and he says, You're gonna be my wife, I'm gonna marry you. Incredible. Yeah, Isaiah heard that. I'm in college. I see this, I see this fine drama. Reluctantly, I'm saying it more than once. I'm saying it more than once. And then completely me neglected my emotions because I was like, oh, that was what my dad did, and that was really cool. So when I feel the feeling, I'm gonna say it. That's the I said it to this girl. And then I said it to another girl. I was like, maybe I shouldn't say this to Charla. And let me just see how it works out. But for me, that's how easy it was to go from my emotion and then make a decision. And I find that really dangerous, especially when it comes to seeing what other people are doing and being like, ooh, that should apply to me. I want that too.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

I I think too, that plays a dangerous part of you being very honest with yourself because is it that you want to be married and so you're making her be wife ready or wifey material? Or is it that you actually have met someone that has convinced you that goes along with your desire of being married and you want to marry her?

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

Because some people I think they just try to make somebody be that because they're just like, I'm ready to be married. These people got married at this time. By this age, I thought I was gonna be married. Like it's so many factors you're playing into your life that's causing you to ask this person to marry you, which causes you to oversee, um, lie to yourself because there's some things that you're probably discussing that you're like, well, I mean, I probably could do without it, but you're not just being honest with yourself because you're more worried about losing the potential of someone that you could marry because you're more focused on being married than really making sure you're marrying the right one. Even though you have that hesitancy, you still be like, Well, I don't want to, because people may say what they want, but I know a lot of people that will put themselves through the ringer because they don't want to go back through the process, especially if they're trying to do it right. Because that means longer of abstaining. Yep, that means more hurt, more vulnerability, more of seeing other people that's possibly getting married and having kids and they're postponing theirs. And well, now I'm getting older. God, is it really gonna happen for me? Like, and they really do question that. And I'm sure a lot of them don't voice it, but I've heard a lot of people voicing it, so therefore they rush it and feel like God is on this particular timeline of theirs because it's more so their desire for that time than them allowing him to work out the things in them so that when they do get married, it can be successful. Yes, and not just a one minute, one year, two-month marriage.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

Um, yeah, to your point, I I do think that the the waiting will cause you to overthink.

unknown 34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:03

And then I start overthinking, which is where I feel like the the caller, the caller, the texter, also was going into when they said, I have a tendency to overthink and I struggle with moving forward if things aren't adding up.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:17

And to that point of okay, now I'm in the waiting process, or it's a little bit of a more of a struggle than I already that I originally thought it was, and I'm comparing all these things and these stories, and I'm overthinking. How do I know? This is a question to you guys. How do I know that if I'm just overthinking at night, or if this is the Holy Spirit convicting me and considering me to think deeper about something, how do I how do I tell the difference when it comes to dating?

Overthinking Fear And The Peace Of God

SPEAKER_02 34:50

My mind automatically went to deeper spiritual things, but if if you have a tendency to be paralyzed by fear, um I I would uh I think that's a place that the enemy can can kind of uh especially when it comes to marriage, and I say this because this was this is my experience, was my experience, um overthinker myself, so I relate to you in that. And when uh when the fear um always stepped in to fear of of commitment, fear of taking those steps forward, fear of of it's not perfect. Um and those those things are are things that you weigh. Um, but I I think the peace of God that leads you, as much as I am an overthinker, I I don't think God ever allowed me to miss what He wanted me to do by Um He made it clear enough for me that it was it was His peace was always there, and He He made it clear enough, reminded me enough times, presented it enough times that He would not let me miss. So I I think about things that are really important. My wife being one of those, my um what I was called to do, uh what I am called to do in ministry, and those things are things that I did run from for a while, but he continued to make them so evident to me that I could not overthink uh and and I would not be paralyzed by it because it was so clear that this was something the Lord wanted me to pursue. Um, so I I that that's not really an answer other than the fact that you you trust the Lord. And if if your uh life has always been a I'm paralyzed and I never want to move forward in something, that's that's much deeper than just a relationship. Like that's that's something spiritual. Um uh so I would encourage this person to flesh out where that is coming from, a lack of trust in God, a lack of dependence, a lack of reliance in God. Spend time really developing that part, and then it'll it'll make the decisions uh easier, whether it's her or someone else. Um being able to trust the Lord, being able to wake up and God's got me today, depending and trusted on Him. Um, I would say not trying to work that out in a relationship first, working that out uh from a spiritual sense first. And then the relationship would be an expression of someone who trusts the Lord rather than trying to figure that out with maybe the most important decision of your life, other than uh other than you know who you choose to be your savior.

SPEAKER_05 37:36

So no, that's

Get Your Walk Right First

SPEAKER_05 37:37

real. I think I've said this before, but I I wholeheartedly believe I found my wife when I focused on what God had for me. And then I found my wife. Um because I would bring my interpersonal shortcomings and it would cloud my judgment on who I should be with. For example, I am naturally not proactive. That is not something I naturally do. I don't have an administration brain, I'm a creative individual. I hop from task to task. If I say there's five things I'm gonna do, I probably did half of them. And by half, I mean only one of the halves, right? It's it's not naturally there. So I have really good intentions, really good thoughts, had no structure on how I should personally get to the end product. So when I'm now dating somebody new, I'm super interested in them. I'm asking a ton of questions, I'm evaluating all these things, and then it gets to the moment where I need to actually start being proactive and not reactive because I just met somebody and now things start falling apart. Now I'm overthinking myself. Now I I meant to pray about this and didn't follow through, or I meant to remember this thing and I didn't, and so I was like, oh, I need to do some work on my self-control or my proactiveness or my stick toitiveness or my stewardship before I try to go and steward somebody else's heart. I don't spend no time, I don't talk to God until I'm dating somebody. You know, it's like, whoa, I I probably should actually have a legitimate relationship 10 minutes a day, 20 minutes a day, before I start to have a forever-a-day relationship with somebody else. And when I started to tweak those things, I started to notice clarity and discerning of spirits in somebody else's life. Um, I know we talked about uh dating in the Bible, all this kind of stuff. I personally do think dating is in the Bible, and I think it's in Genesis. There are when you read the Genesis 2, there are certain things David had before he had woman. Before God brought Eve into his life, he gave him work, cultivation, his spirit, uh, the ability to grow things, and you can just go down the list in Genesis 2. He had all those things, and then God said, It is not good for this man to be alone. What man? The man that is in his presence, the man that has the ability to cultivate, the man that has his purpose in his work, and the man that can look out into the field and see vision. That is a type of man that should not be alone. And then when you when I take that template of Genesis 2, and I look at Abraham and look at David and look at Samson, who failed the template, and he got Delilah, and I start looking at all the other people, and I'm like, oh, the blueprint was already there. There is something about doing for yourself first, continuously, with stick to itness and a sober mind, walking with God myself, that makes overthinking a defeated foe. Because I've been walking with God the whole time. Sorry, that was a bit of a yap session right there.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

No, I mean, I totally agree. I think it's it's interesting because, like I said earlier about God showing you you, and mostly everything we've said has more so been focused on him than the woman he's dating, which is a strong sign, like you said, with Adam. Adam was going back and his focus and priority was God. Yep, his purpose was God, and God brought along someone to help him with that. Um, and I'm just a strong believer that if you are really in line and in tune and pursuing God, then hit your discernment when needed will kick in. Uh, a word of wisdom will come from somewhere. And I I just strongly believe that you'll have what you need to know and hear will show up at the exact time, at the right time. I like what you said earlier about fear and how it's probably a fear. If he's an overthinker, it's probably a track record, not just in this relationship. This ain't the first time. And for him to say I'm an overthinker, then you already know from previous times, and you should have a history to or examples to go back and review to see, well, when was it that I was overthinking and I really was right versus overthinking and I was wrong. And and have that, and then you could actually compare it to this current situation with her. But at the end of the day, if God isn't saying something yet, I I don't think it doesn't mean he won't. Right. Um, and a lot of times I feel like God is speaking to us or has already shown us we just have already ignored what he said, or we're just listening to everybody else. We're too caught up in those emotions and those things. So if everything is high right now and it's not a, and I'm not saying it's not, but if it's high and it's not pointing to God, and everything they're doing is concerts and movies and dinners and and time together, like and I'm hey, listen, this ain't no shade or shot at anybody. Because I remember when I was younger, and pastor used to be like, you shouldn't date in private, and you shouldn't do these certain things. And so, you know, I was a hard hit and I disobeyed all that. Like, that just doesn't make sense. I'm gonna get to know him if I can't spend time with him in private, or you should date and put people around you and all that. But that was just pride. That was just me trying to say, oh, let's be real honest with deeper roots. That was me wanting the excuse that if I failed, I had a reason. Because at the end of the day, real wisdom would keep me out of those scenarios and situations. I wanted to fail, I wanted to be in certain situations, so I would ask her to come over in times that she shouldn't or they shouldn't be there. We go do things we shouldn't. And to be honest, that's still a reflection of me because I'm not ready to steward and to handle a situation. Because if I'm saying I'm lining up with God, but yet I'm putting her in situations for us to fail, then I haven't grown to where I need to be.

unknown 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

And when you ask the questions like you guys are asking, I would encourage him to. This is a strong statement, but I look back over my my dating life. I when I wanted, when I did not care what God thought about it, I put up with a lot of things that I knew I shouldn't have. I want to encourage this

Pray For God To Shut Doors

SPEAKER_02 43:56

person to pray. If it's not your will, shut it down. When you when you ask the Lord, hey God, I don't I don't want anything. Even if my flesh wants it, even if I'm well connected with it, if it's not your will, I don't want it. And I look back over my life, the things that the Lord shut down, some I prayed for, and then some I know somebody was praying for me, was like, like, shut it down. If it's if it's gonna hurt my future, if it's gonna damage, and and God has a way of moving things out of the way, of shutting things down when you think, and it was hurt, some of it was very hurtful, like because you didn't understand it, you didn't know why it happened that way. Um, but I would encourage this person when you are growing and you're trusting in the Lord, you can pray certain things like God, I trust you. And if this is not what you want from me, either show it to me or close the door. And He will. And I look back, I look back over my life that there was doors closed, and I was like, why in the world would that door have closed? It looked like everything was going smooth, and then all of a sudden something drastic happened, or you know, somebody moved, or it's just strange things happen. Um, and I just I look back and it I think it was the hand of the Lord that protected and kept um when there's a trust there. God, I don't want something that's just something that I desire. I want I want what you desire for me. And if you know more than I know what she does, uh I trust you to align those things for me.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

Happened to me, man. Yeah, my mama prayed her out of my life. Yep. I'm not lying. There's dating, I was dating this little girl. Oh, we weren't calling it dating, but we was dating. You know that that little weird moment where you're like, how has it been a year already? And I've never seen anybody else, but we don't call ourselves boyfriend and girlfriend. Yeah. My mom prayed that she would get a scholarship that would send her out of the school that I was attending.

SPEAKER_03 45:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:50

Why did she come to me one day and say, I got a full rise scholarship for this degree at this university and moved her out of my life?

SPEAKER_03 45:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:57

I was like, now why can't you pray that I got a scholarship? But he will move. And I also want to say the the flip side of overthinking is if you have not been spending time with the voice of God, when he does bring you Eve, you can self-sabotage and overthink your way out of the person that God did want you to be with because you didn't recognize that it was his hand that had provided it. Or you fumble it, Isaiah, because you were not prepared to even hold and have the gift that is there. So it is so incredibly important. I think dating, the world has told us that it's the other person that needs to get it right. It's the other person that needs to fit my needs and my desires. And what I've realized in marriage is that it's me. I'm the one that has to get right to order to make this thing work. But the world says it's the other person's fault as to why this is not right.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

That's good. I I'm I'm gonna kind of go higher with this and just speak generally

Advice For Men And Women

SPEAKER_02 46:58

really fast. One, I commend this guy. There was a word that you said he's pursuing. Um, yeah, I as so talking to men really fast. I love what you said, uh Elder Chris, when you first started this. What are some things that you that you are and that you are really looking for in somebody else? I'm not encouraging a checklist like you talked about before. They have to be five foot seven, they have to look this way. But what are two or three things that you say are non-negotiable? This is something that I want, and I want to encourage men to be pursuers and not stalkers. That's the difference. There is a difference, huge difference, the difference, you know, and and not to be obsessive, none of those things, but to pursue something, even if it even if it feels like it's too far, even because I think there's something for men, it's the desire for something that seems out of reach. I think it's the way God made us. So I want to encourage men to pursue something that fits in with who you are and what you could see your life looking like. Don't just settle for what comes to you. Don't just settle for what is easy and convenient, pursue something that fits your values. And then to all the women that are listening, you have authority to your same core values as well. Just because somebody pursues you does not mean you have to say yes. Amen. You have autonomy to make those decisions. If the one pursuing you is not pursuing you in a way that shows they care about you, they just care about themselves because that is your that is your because submission, I believe, is is scriptural and biblical, but before you you marry, you have all the authority in the world to find the person you feel comfortable trusting enough to to lead and trusting enough to submit to. And that's why I would encourage ladies today, and I say this, these are things that I want to say to my daughter one day, is like you uh, because when you find someone that you can trust, not just someone that entices you, but find someone that you can trust and uh make take those decisions. Uh, they're important, not to not enjoy them, but they are important and to set those core values up. And if they pursue you, I don't care how much money they have or what they look like, how many abs they have, how many muscles they have pumping out, popping out of their shirt, if they don't have those things that are important to you, not a checklist of physical, emotional things, but core value things, then you have the autonomy to do that. So, men, I think we're pursuers. That's something God has placed in us to do. Ladies, I want to tell you, you do not have to, I don't care where your biological clock is, you don't have to take something that's less than what God has purchased for you. Uh, you wait uh with anticipation for everything God has for you.

SPEAKER_05 50:00

Yeah. Don't don't don't be pressured by your age either. That's another big one. I'm getting older, I'm 30, and I don't have anybody. Yeah, well, go ask Abraham how old he was. Yeah. And was it Zechariah? John the Baptist daddy. Yeah. Yeah, I got that one right. Go ask him how old he was. Come on now. Yeah. Anyway, that's a

Final Thoughts And Text Us

SPEAKER_05 50:22

really good question. We got into some really deep stuff. And I feel like there's a listener out there that listened, and now you got some questions yourself. Go ahead and text the pod. We want to hear from you and pursue. Yeah, I think that's all I have to say there. I was trying to figure out like a better way to end it, but I didn't have anything. We'll see you guys next time.