Ep 12 War, Loss, and the Power of Brotherhood

In this emotional episode of Memoirs of a Veteran, the host welcomes back Spc. Benjey to discuss the importance of raw and honest conversations about military life. The discussion starts with a somber recounting of a fellow veteran's recent suicide, detailing the struggles he faced post-service. The hosts stress the importance of social connections among veterans to combat the isolation and mental health challenges they often face. The conversation also delves into personal stories, coping mechanisms, and the irreplaceable bond formed during service. This episode underscores the necessity of reaching out to fellow veterans and sustaining those critical social connections to prevent further loss within the community.

Transcript

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Welcome to Memoirs of a Veteran. It's like memoirs of a geisha, but in English where combat veterans come and tell their stories. Talk about the general mayhem they caused overseas and stateside. Please like, subscribe and all that fun shit you're supposed to do. Give it five stars if you feel so necessary. Remember, this is a safe place for veterans. We love you. Enjoy the episode. All right, we're here with another episode of Memoirs with a Veteran. I told you when I started this podcast, I was gonna keep it raw and real. Everything we've talked about from the beginning of this thing has been raw and real, and this episode is gonna be one of the rawest other than the last episode with with Benji. And he's on here with me again. Say, hi, Ben. What's up everybody? And happy to be here. Yeah. Thank you for coming on. I was gonna do this solo. And I'm glad you could join me'cause this is gonna be a rough one. Absolutely. But in doing this podcast, I wanted to give you guys all aspects of all aspects of military life. Sorry, I accidentally muted my mic. Trying to adjust it. The good, the bad, the ugly, the funny, mainly the funny, that's what we try to focus on. But this is the other side of it. Something Benji and I were talking about before we hit record is when we come home, the war doesn't always stop for everyone. Some people it does, some people it doesn't. And I, it's not even a full 24 hours yet. When I got the call last night. Saying that one of the guys, I was impatient with getting goosebumps just thinking about it, put a nine mil to his head, fucking pulled the trigger last night, fighting those demons. And I tried everything with this guy. I kept in touch with him when we got out and he got a fiance. I kept in touch with her and I would talk to her, about things that were going on with him. When she was upset. I was trying to give her the side of the veteran, what he's going through, what he's struggling with, and they stayed together for a long time and he just, he lost it even more. He went back to his medicine, which was alcohol, and he broke into his father-in-law's house, which was a mile from his ex fiance's house. And I think he did it there so that somebody would find him.'cause he was just living on the streets. That's all right brother. Take your time. But obviously they did find him, thankfully they think it was within 24 hours that they found him. And then she called me right away last night, about 10 o'clock. And all she said in the text was, can you call me? And I knew it was two things. Either he acted out and she had to have the police called'cause he was trying to break into her house with her and her kids, or. He killed himself. And first thing I said to her was, how did he do it? I wanted to know, did he drink himself to death? Did he overdose or did he use a gun? Because she had all his guns. She kept'em, and somehow, some way he snuck his nine mil for protection. Obviously we're veterans, we wanna be able to protect ourselves if he's living on the street. And that's how he did it, man. That's just that guy. And we didn't serve together, just to be clear for everyone. He was a Marine, he was a crayon eater, he was an officer. He was an intel officer and he worked with marsoc, went back when it was Marsoc and he went on a lot of missions with them to gather intel to interrogate prisoners. And he saw a lot of shit. And he fought a lot of demons, just like we all do. I've never said this, but I was almost a statistic once and thank fucking God that I was not, and it's lower than 22 a day. I know they say 22 a day, but I think it's lower than that.'cause I know this things come in threes, but I've had three funerals now'cause I gotta go to Indiana. I don't have to go. I want to go, let me clear that up. I'm ended up going to Indiana for this, for link's funeral. And I didn't go to Higgins'cause it's in Oregon. That was just too far for me. But I went to, my adopted dad's funeral last week. That was a military funeral. And the whole time I heard taps, all I saw was, fishers casket and Flag. I saw FTOs casket and flag. I saw Jenkins coming home before he went to California. It's just all that shit. I didn't necessarily see those guys. I saw our guys and it was like, fuck man, when do I stop seeing those? And I don't say that I want to forget them because they're always gonna be with me, and they're always gonna be with you and with all of us. But it's I wanted to see, my adopted dad in that moment. But when they're playing taps and they're doing that 21 gun salute, and I'm closing my eyes and I'm flinching on blanks, it's like I'm seeing them. That's all I could see with my eyes closed was their 21 gun salute. Their folded flag. Nobody can blame you there, brother, regardless of branch. It's, it always, it's always a shot to the heart. We're, we pick on each other, that we give each other shit, but we're all, when it comes to being in combat, and those of us that have been through the shit, there were people that go sit on fobs that never leave the fob. And yes, they were in a combat theater, but they weren't in combat, not like we were. So it's different. And we're still brothers, we're still sisters. We're all related. There's no uniform. When we come home, we're all wearing civilians and we're all suffering the same shit. And it's just, I. It's fucked up.'cause I don't blame anybody. I almost, part of me wants to blame Lincoln, but it's like I, I know his struggle. I've been in his shoes, man. When we get to that point, our first thought is not to call you or to call Gado or Gaul or Chad Gore or anybody. It's, we're just there. We're like, fuck it. Nobody loves me, nobody cares. I'm tired of hurting. I'm tired of this fucking pain. Yep. And I just, I want it to be over with. He had two boys, man, I had four and I wasn't thinking to them at that time. I was just like, fuck it, yeah, absolutely. You just, like you said earlier, you're battling demons and at the only at that time, the only thing you can, concentrate your energy towards is those demons. And you kinda get tunnel vision. I've been there too. And it doesn't get easier, I still see them in my dreams. But we have to, I believe that it's way easier said than done.'cause I still take a lot of responsibility, whether rightfully so or not. And it's hard not to because you are your brother's keeper. Oh, that's a great, yeah, that's great buddy. But we have to, for me it was live a good life. Like they wouldn't want me to put a gun to my head. But not everybody is so fortunate as I, I have been. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I have that perspective now and I didn't always have that perspective. I was like, I just want to go be with them. I just want to hug them. I want to see them. I loved my boys at that time. I did. And I know Link loved his, that's all he talked about. And he had a nasty ex and she kept him away. And probably, he wasn't as honest with me, how he was around his boys, he said he never drank around him. I, I. I now don't necessarily a hundred percent believe that. Just based on some stuff with his ex-fiance that happened. So I know he struggled and, but I know he loved those boys and, they lost a father now, and he wasn't always present because of these things, these demons. And I'm glad that I'm not gonna say I kicked them.'cause like you said, we still see'em, we still feel'em, they're still there. Just when we think we got control, it's fuck you, bam. It hits you, knocks you back down to reality. Absolutely. But I think I'm a better father now. I just, I don't think he ever got there, unfortunately. I think he tried, I think he tried to have that with his second family, but. Those demons just prevented that and kept that from happening. And I just, I hate it for him.'cause he was, he's such a good dude and so smart. So fucking intelligent. I gave him a couple poems and he put'em to a song. He made it into a song just like in days. And he had a guitar and made the music and these are poems I wrote about Phish and Fava. And it was like, dude, how the fuck did you do that? He's I just did it. I know. And it's I think during these times, we need to do exactly what it is you're doing is fall back on your tribe. I did that a lot going through these past 20 years and instead of. Fall into your demons, pick up that phone or text or something,'cause we're all out there, we're all, we're all, each other's tribe. I just don't think that given that warrior mindset, we think that, each other's gonna view each other as weak or something. And that's just not the case. It's just not. We definitely, as veterans, we need to have a change of perspective in that, us as each other, those we serve with, like you said, we're that tribe. We know each other, we know what we've been through. We can talk to each other easier and we understand each other. One of the things I wrote down, just some topics of, the va, it's overloaded. They have so many counselors, but they have so many more veterans coming to'em. So I, I don't a hundred percent blame them for these veterans doing what they're doing, could they be better? Sure. That's their job, you know there's a shortage in mental health. Absolutely. So you need to hire twice the number of counselors, even if they're sitting there not working as much, still keep them there and pay them. The force is still there. It's still getting out. It still has issues. So you're still gonna have an increase and you still have the status quo. I guess not.'cause they're still killing themselves. So it's going down and that's not what you want. Your job is to keep these people from doing that. We both went to a VA inpatient. That's where I met him. I got a lot out of it. Now his counselor and my counselor were the same, but she ended up having to leave through his treatment. So he switched counselors. Yeah, mine too. And that's not good. Like she fought to stay, to finish his treatment'cause they were in the middle of the deep stuff and then he had to stop and start over halfway through his time and they never really got. Back into the deep stuff. Yeah. So that I do blame on the va. Like she requested to stay, she wanted to finish his treatment because she didn't want to leave him where he was, but they said, Nope, you have to move over here. Your time is up here so we're rotating someone else in. That's a failure of the va. Yeah. It is, but I think in since 2004 when I got out, I think I had 16 different counselors.'cause they just get burnt out with the workload. Yeah. I've added quite a few myself. Yeah. So hire more and keep them on staff. Don't burn them out by giving them 4,000 cases and make'em do all these notes and all this shit. There's gotta be a way to streamline it to make them not want to leave. After being there for six months, it seems six, seven months. If they make it a year, it's oh shit, you're still here. Yeah, I go to the vet center now. I don't know if you've ever tried a vet center. I've heard of it and I've never tried it. It's the same. It's VA counselors and it's covered by the va, so it's still VA funded, but the counselors are there longer. They don't take the massive workload'cause they don't have to, they're not required by the VA to pack in their day. They set an appropriate number of appointments per day and they can see you every week. They can see you every day if they need to, they can see you once a month. My counselor actually has a work cell phone that he gave me that cell phone number. So if I'm having a bad day. I can text him even on the weekend and he could call me from that cell phone and we can have a cell phone session on a Sunday. If I needed to call him about this tomorrow, he would call me right away. Yeah. That's the VA's not gonna do something like that. So a vet center is a great option for people. If you have one in your area, try to get in there. That's, it's something different. Absolutely. I haven't gone just due to the nature of my job, especially with today's, administration. I don't have a lot of time to my detriment. But dealing with, seeing these people is, it's important because dealing with, loss of purpose and even 20 years later, still feeling that separation anxiety, it tears me apart. They go to bed. You think about those guys throughout the day. You think about your guys and I'd recommend, a as overwhelmed as they are, those VA counselors really helped me. Oh yeah. Always. Yeah. I think they do their job well. I just, again, I, they get burnt out because they're, there's no time and there's no break. They just get thrown to the wolves with so many people. And you gotta think about their mental health too. All the shit they're hearing. Oh yeah. It's gotta do, it's gotta take a toll on them too. I'm sure they have to have their own counseling time to, to process all the shit they're hearing. I would believe, but I'm not sure. I would hope that they have it.'cause fuck, like you said, they're hearing shit from Vietnam, Korea. Yeah. That's some wild stuff to be hearing. Yeah. Every single day that's gotta weigh on you. Yeah. And maybe First Desert Storm and now 20 years of operation Iraq. Or not Iraqi Freedom, but enduring freedom. G Yeah, G Wat and yeah, global War and Terrorism. That's it. So it's fuck. Those are different options. There's private, you can use community care too. If you have a counselor out there that will accept the community care, of course they don't pay much. So if you find a private counselor that would accept it, you could do that route too. Absolutely. Yeah. I've lost a number of counselors. One was leaving the va, another one was going somewhere else. It was the last time it happened, I was like, you know what I think I'm just gonna try going alone. Because to be honest with you, I just got I got tired of talking about FTO and Fisher every week. I think about them every day already and trying to talk to somebody who's amazing at listening, but never really could grasp it. You know what I mean? If that makes sense. Yeah. Oh yeah. After a while, I just was like, fuck it, I'll go on my own. No, that that's a good option. And it's, if you have the healthcare, then to do it it's a really good option. Yeah. I agree.'cause they're, again, they're not overloaded. They can sit there and focus on you. But service dogs, if you get somebody a veteran who's struggling, something to take care of, e even I almost think that's what you always see homeless people with dogs. Yeah. I almost wonder if that's what keeps these homeless people alive.'cause they always ha their dogs look healthy. Yeah. They're always damn fed. They're taking care of'em. Yeah, they're taking care of'em. They may look scraggly and rough, but their damn dogs are well fed and well taken care of. Service dogs are a great thing for veterans. They give'em compassion, they help'em, it's a distraction in crowds. I. You just gotta research the service dog company that you're getting it from. Yeah. There, there's some good ones and there's some really bad ones. Canine for Warriors. It's a bad one. I went to it, I got kicked out of it after a week. They said I was GI was abusing my dog. Now they've lost their certification from the government because they mistreat veterans, right? They just, not just me, like 5, 6, 7, 8 people filed a grievance against them and they lost it. And so they're no longer a service dog company for veterans. And there's other ones out there that will use, we give dogs to veterans for the, promotion to get funding, stuff like that. They give a few to veterans, but they don't give a lot. And it takes six, seven years to get a dog. What good is that doing? Yeah. That takes, the veteran needs it now, I don't have a service dog. I have Cooper, I work from home now, and if I'm upstairs, he, like right now he's laying on the bed. If I were to get up and go downstairs, he's gonna get up and go with me. He, wherever I am, that dog is with me. So he's, if I didn't, if he died today, like it would fucking devastate me. Absolutely. Yeah, I feel that. So I do. He sleeps in the bed with me. He lays right next to me, yeah, I reach over and I pet him in the middle of the night. It's something that I need. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. When I was in Pennsylvania for that week, like I would reach over to pet him and he wasn't there'cause I didn't bring him and it was some rough nights of sleep.'cause I just was so used to him being next to me. Yeah, I get that. I got two dogs of my own. They sleep with us. I pet my pit mix in the middle of the night, the same, he's getting old so I'm really terrified of that. But I understand where you're coming from as far as the dogs are concerned. Nobody's gonna love you like they do. No, true. Yeah. Be is loyal, and I wish I would've known that secret, years ago when I was going through my really tough times. Before I had my wife and dogs. I, Hey, shit, I would've got a dog back then. Yeah. Instead of taking my fucking anger and hurt out on everybody around me. No. Yeah. It's, and the thing is we don't take our anger and hurt out on the dog. No. We just, we know that something loves us at that point. And so we're like, oh, this is amazing. Yeah. You come home, you're happy because something's waiting at the door wagging its tail. It's so excited that you're home and it just makes your life better. Absolutely. It does. Doesn't matter what kind of, what's killing you at that moment, eating at you. You could have, I, there's plenty of times where I would, just be a dick, everybody I encountered, you got that. You come home and that dog doesn't give a shit what you did that day. I read a quote recently that says, be the person that your dog thinks you are. Oh, that's fucking great. Yeah. And that really, that struck me. You, your dog looks at you like you're a fucking superhero. So I try every once in a while when I'm really getting upset, I was arresting a guy the other day who was just being a little shithead, and I was getting angry and angry, and it was about to get really violent, and I just remember that quote, be the,'cause I know I would've done violence upon this person and had my dog been present, it would've been really upset. Whoa, dad, what are you doing? Wow. Yeah. So it really it rained me in. That's awesome. I like that quote. Be the dog or be the person your dog thinks you are. Yeah. That struck me. Yeah.'cause I think my dog thinks I'm something fantastic and a lot of days I'm not. A lot of days you think you're not. I feel that too. But a lot of days, we're veterans, we're hard on ourselves. We're really fucking hard on ourselves. And the dog helps you see clearly. Yeah. I was thinking about this earlier. I was gonna ask you do you, when you go to bed, do you go right to bed or do you have a whole nighttime routine, like 20, 30 minute routine? I have a whole routine now. Why do you think that is? Have you always had that or is it post-military? It is definitely post-military. It's, not I left home as a teenager. Just jump in your bed, go to sleep. But now it's a shit shower and shave. It's take the dog out, it's brush your teeth, it's, and you gotta roll around in bed for a while, wrestling with the demons that want to keep you awake. And eventually you'll drift off. Usually I wake up at about 3:00 AM and roll around until I gotta get outta bed. But so I, I was thinking about this I, it takes me a while, like I have to walk around. Like I'll get up, I'll go to the bathroom like a couple times. I'll lay down, I'll get back up, go to the bathroom and I'll pet my dog. I'll move over. I'll adjust like 3, 4, 5 times. Then I'll get back up and I'll check and I'll remember something else. Lay back down. And I'm sitting here thinking, this reminds me of stand two, like that last little stand too that we always had to do when we were in the field. Like you, you're ready to go to bed and then all of a sudden you go to get your routine and we, oh, stand two. Everyone gets your nods out. Prep your bed da. Then get your foxhole. You better watch. Yep. And then, oh, 50% stand two's over. And then you have to go back.'cause you know you're getting up in two hours, to pull your shift. Yep. And you're wrestling. You gotta get up. Soon as you get comfortable, you feel that little, tiny bit of piss still in your bladder and you gotta get it out. That's, it's that's what I do every night. I'll get up, water over to the bathroom, take a piss, come back, and I'll lay there and think It's not even that much. You could go to sleep. Why do you fucking care? Yep. I'm telling you it's that whole stand two, then, we get up to pool guard and Yeah. You, as soon as you got in your fart sack, you had that little bit of piss still in your bladder and your body said, Nope, you're not allowed to go to sleep. Yeah. You can't go yet. Nope. That's the same. I'll get up, walk across cold ass floor, take a, to take a s like just a half a second squirt be like, all right, it's empty. Now I can go to sleep. Yeah. Yeah. And then it takes you a whole nother 20 minutes to find that comfortable spot you were in before you felt that little squirt in your bladder. Yeah. Shit pisses me off. I've developed a bit of a defense mechanism, so I I imagine myself sitting in front of a warm fire in a cabin in the middle of nowhere. When I can't sleep, I. Oh, and I'll just lay there and I'll think of, it's freezing outside. It's cold as fuck, but I have this fire in this little cabin and I'm cozy. It sounds crazy, but it works. It helps me to fall asleep most nights. Not every night, but most nights I have all my white noise. And if it's really my head's just talking to me, I'll just turn on some Miles Davis. Yeah, that's a good one too. Him blue, him and some blues trumpet, just like real bluesy. And I'm just like, yeah.'cause Fisher, I wanna say it was Fisher, turned it on, turned me onto it. And camp Doha, Kuwait. There was like this little library, it was the only place on Camp Doha in Kuwait that had NE ac. And there's these little beanbag back there and you could get a little CD Walkman and check it out. And they didn't have a whole lot, but one of the things they had was Miles Davis. And he's oh, Gil, you gotta listen to this. And I was like, oh. And next thing we're all sleeping in there, we're just laying in the beanbag, fucking sleeping. And after a while, the librarian started complaining and Lieutenant Colonel Chrysler told us we weren't allowed to sleep in there anymore. As soon as we go in like the next day, just to sit in there and get some ac he's racked out sleeping. Of course, after he told us not to sleep. So we all went and checked out a CD player and fucking went back to the bax and went right back to sleep. Tapped him on the shoulder. Hey, sir, that's what we remember. That's what we should have done. But we just fuck it. If he's asleep, we're gonna go to sleep. Why the fuck not? I would've too. They put us in these World War II airplane hangers with no AC in July, in Kuwait. Like it was fucking hot. We were roasted. Oh yeah, I, it was ridiculous. I slept in the I slept in the back of a Chinook at Camp Doha. And for whatever reason, man, the fucking sand fleas there were just terrible. Just scratch until you bleed. And it was a fucking terrible experience. I spent, maybe one day there I passed by. We were, I was walking with a pilot, his name was, I still remember his name. His name's Lieutenant Chase. And he's Hey, they got a Baskin Robbins. I haven't seen shit since, I don't since we left Campbell. So I was like, okay, let's go. We're walking there and all of a sudden these four people come by, they're wearing shorts and t-shirts and carrying bags of subway sandwiches and shit. And I had his, and Lieutenant Chase looked at me'cause he could see my eyes, and I was looking at'em. He's just leave it. And I was like no. I was like, excuse me. Are you guys in the military? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're in the military. What branch are you in? Where are you, what are you doing right now? We're gonna The pool. The pool. Oh my god. You're with who? Oh, we're in the Air Force. Oh, okay. Yeah. It makes fucking sense. Yeah. You don't gotta say anymore because I'm, I've lost 35 pounds at this point. My head is shaved, I'm covered in dirt. My uniform is just disgusting. But didn't stop. When we got to, when we got to the 30, when we got to the basket Robbins, there's these two poke chicks behind me. Kept talking to me, tapped me on the shoulder, asking me, you are in the infantry. Oh. Just kept talking to me, but I didn't make the connection. And I'm waiting in line for my ice cream. They're talking to me the whole time. We have our own little cabin. Oh, that's great. I would like this. I'm ordering chocolate fucking ice cream, and we're walking away from the line, and Lieutenant Chase is just looking at me like I'm an asshole, and I'm happily enjoying my ice cream. I don't know what the fuck the problem is. And he's you're that stupid. I was like, what? What? I don't understand, sir. He's those chicks were just about to take you back to the little fucking rack and make you king of the goddamn world, and you're more interested in this fucking ice cream. You know what? A grunts, a grunt man. It when he's got one tunnel vision and it's fucking ice cream, the cheeks don't matter. That's all it came down to. Go back in time now, and I'm not 21, 22 years old. Yeah. Then okay. But at the time I'm like, what would you want with me? I'm fucking, I'm real thin, I'm skinny. I got a shaved head. They'd have been like, if I'd have been there they wouldn't have been like that. They'd have been like, eh, this guy I had my BCGs on, bro. Hey, little Benji back then was, he's a different guy. They were all about it. I was like, I had no fucking clue. Not one. That's awesome. Camp Doha. There was nobody there when we were there. I remember, I do remember there was this warrant officer, I wanna say he was like, he was a National guard'cause he looked like a grandpa, big pot belly. And we just come from Afghanistan where we didn't, we hadn't been saluting officers for 6, 6, 7 months. Almost seven months. Yeah. And so I walked by and I acknowledged him. I said, rock on, sir, but I didn't salute. And so he took offense to it and he said, I. He said'cause I was still a corporal at that time. I was still waiting. I got pinned my five when we got back to Campbell. And he goes, corporal, salute the rank, not the person. And I'm just like, are you telling me you don't even respect yourself? And I was just like, rock ofan, sir. And he returned the salute. And I was like, holy shit. Yeah, sniper checks sir. No problem. And I said, I was like, sir, we for seven months, we haven't saluted an officer. I said it's just been habit. You're not in combat now. I'm like, we're fucking kut to me it's, we're not in Garrison. We're still in fucking, I'm still walking around with my weapon on me. So to me, and I have live ammo in it. I, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but Cool. Yeah, it ain't safe. You we're still in theater. It doesn't matter. I. But anyway, he wanted to be saluted, so he got saluted. I was pa I was at one of the aviation bases in Iraq. There were several of them. It might have been thunder one, I can't remember. And I, I pa I saw a marine lieutenant coming towards me, and I didn't know what the fuck to do that. I was panicking. I'm like, I don't, do I salute this asshole? Do I not like, I don't know. I was like, oh, fuck it. You think of that old thing winning Do, whip it out. Yeah. So I did, and I fucking rocket science, sir. And he was like, Ugh. And I was like, all right, go fuck yourself too. He didn't want to be saluted, so fuck him. I figured he was like, oh, it's a soldier trying to salute me. And I was like, yeah, okay. I didn't know what to do at the time, sir. Yeah. Fuck him. He's a marine, he's probably hungry. Hungry for his orange crayon. So basically what I did, I was like, all, all right, whatever you say. There was one stupid time in Bagram. I don't remember why I, there was some staff officer, someone who got offended that he didn't get saluted. And so we were told we had to salute officers, and I'm like, this is the dumbest thing ever. If somebody gets shot, it better be the officer and not us for fucking saluting him. So Della Santos, who was the squad leader at the time, he said, all right. He said, I want everybody when we walk to chow, to walk 10 feet apart. He said, that way every officer will have to salute every single person in the squad. And so that's what we did. We had this long line, our whole fucking squad real spread out, and the rest of the company or the rest of our platoon did it too. And so every officer was just like Jesus Christ. Like they had to keep saluting and that they stopped it after a day or two because it probably got tired of it. Yeah. Because everyone was doing it and I think my fucking arm's tired. Yeah. I think it was like somebody an SF guy didn't salute an officer or something. And I don't know, it was something stupid. I don't remember if we had gado on here. He would know. But it was the dumbest thing ever. It gets stupid. And I don't know if you remember, but the flash on our berets on a sunny day would look like a lieutenant bar. Oh yeah.'cause it was silver. Yeah, it was silver and blue. It was silver. So I can't tell you how many times I've been walking to the PX on lunchtime to go get a fucking haircut and someone to walk by. Oh, sir. And I'd be like, yo, I'd have to stop him. No. I'm not a lieutenant. Blah, blah, blah. And then eventually I just gave up and they walked by me certain, I just fucking slid him back. At that point. I'm like, I'm tired of this. I don't want to explain it. You should have made him do fucking pushups. But you didn't recognize me in time. That was too late, supposed to start saluting me in 10 feet, do pushups. Yeah. Your salute was off. It was not along your fucking gig line. And yeah, get over here. I wanna talk to you private. Then they would've saw the specialist rank and been like, okay. Are you impersonating an officer? No. I swear it's just a flash. No, you're just dumb and saluted me idiot. Then you'd get like a sergeant or something, he'd start smoking your ass. Ugh. I've had that where I was going to the PX one time and there was a lady pushing a baby carriages and she's struggling putting it up the pushing it up, the ran or the curb. So I held the door for her. She went in, I ran around, I got the second door for her. I let her go through and once she went through, I took my bray off and I went through and some Poey seven was like hey, turn around. After I walk in, I'm like, what? What's going on, Sergeant? He was a master sergeant and he's you didn't, who's your command? Second Bat Alpha Company, one 87th, sir. Or sar. And he was like, you didn't take your bra off. You walked in here and then you took your bray off. That's unacceptable. I'm like, I was helping the lady with the baby and he was like I might have to talk with your chain of command. I'm like, you go to my platoon sergeant and you specifically ask for Sergeant Baldino and you tell him what happened here. You're not gonna what happens, but go ahead and do that. Go ahead and do that. I fucking dare you. Yeah. And make sure I'm there when you fucking tell him.'cause I want to see it. I wanna, I will come over and be like, this is what happened, Sergeant. Exactly what he says. Go ahead, do it. Fucking people, man. Those are the people that just hang out by their rank and be like, they want to call somebody out.'cause they can, they're just hiding in a bush. Oh yeah. Oh, that guy right there. I saw an infraction. I'm gonna go talk to that soldier. It happened so many times. Fucking idiots. And this guy, I'm walking to Mosul on a fucking air base and I have a salt pack slung on my shoulder and I'm getting yelled at and I'm like, I know he is talking to me. My back is to him. And he is Hey, troop. And I'm like he's a PO because Noman calls each other troop and Hey, troop. So I was like, fuck it, he's not a grunt. I'm gonna ignore him. Hey, you with the backpack? Fuck. Turn around. I'm like, yes. Hey, you need to have both traps on or none. That's what's important right now, Sergeant. Okay I'll put both on. I'm like, you got nothing better to do right now. I would've been like, why? I would've seriously questioned it. W what's, I've never been told I had to have two straps on what's the importance of two straps? Just wanted to be away from that fucking en encounter. Because I'm like, if you're gonna find that stupid bullshit, what else are you gonna find? And I was a PFC at the time, so I'm like, I know, God, I don't want to fuck with this. That's also why I got in trouble a lot too.'cause I would question dumb shit. I'm like, that makes no sense. Like when I'm running through the woods on the assault, I have it one strapped. Should I have had two? So it would've taken longer to take off and then somebody would shoot me like, yeah, you're making too much sense, brother. What the fuck is this point? This guy's never assaulted anything other than a fucking box of donuts, bro. Yeah. Those Krispy Kres can, do a full on of salt, especially when they're hot, burn your fingers and stuff. He went at'em. I could tell God. Yeah. It got stupid sometimes. But that's just all these funny stories. Just go back to the, the loss of purpose. I still have very good memories of Campbell, even when we were doing stupid shit, I can still remember Campbell and I remember looking at the sky thinking, oh, I only got six months left had I known. I go back in time and smack that young fucking specialist in the head and be like, bro, these are the best days of your fucking life. Yeah. And I wish you'd fucking realize that. I would give myself advice like, Hey, get a divorce. Yeah. Move in, move into the barracks. But, there's a TV show I watch on repeat how I Met Your Mother. I don't know if you've ever seen that. Yeah. He says in there I wish we could know we're in the good old days when we're in the good old days. Yeah, man. That there ain't nothing truer than that. Yeah. That, that, that hits right, right to the heart. I wish I would've known, but at that time, at that age, you think you're gonna be young forever. That's why I try to tell my kids all the time, I'm like, you can make fun of me all you want, but you're gonna get to this age at some point and it's gonna be soon. And you're gonna look up and go, what the fuck happened? Yeah. Whatever. Dad. That's a long ways away. I said the same thing, buddy. Yeah. And then I had trouble getting outta bed this morning yeah. Here we are. And when I get up, I snap and pop. And our bodies are older than people our age. That's the other thing. Yeah. We beat the shit out of our bodies. Whether you serve two years, three years, four years, and if you serve 20 years I don't know how they do it. You're crippled. You're gonna be crippled. Yeah, I was talking to Chad yesterday. I'm like, how you doing? He's oh, I'm laying on the couch. I'm like, why? He's I threw my back out. I'm like, what were you doing? He is like, getting up. I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, you're getting old Chad. He goes, I am not. I'm like, all i'm glad you believe that mentality, buddy. I don't I got outta the shower, a couple years ago, and I didn't have a towel on yet, and I bent down. I grabbed something and I was on the floor quicker than sh quicker than shit. I'm just, I'm trying to reach up to grab my towel like the fucking Michelangelo painting. Of course, I'm calling for my wife. She has to come in and rescue me. The angel that she is with, all the one where he's reaching up to God, the finger. He is trying to touch it. He's, that's, I'm basically trying to cover my shame'cause I'm laying on the ground. Fucking That's awesome. Yeah. It's, your body gets back then you don't think about it. All the shit that you go through and the punishment you put it through'cause you think, you again think you're gonna be young forever. You're really not. Yeah. Oh, I'm not gonna go to sit call, we're getting ready to go to the field. I'll go after this field problem. Yeah. And then you get a profile and everyone calls you a profile ranger. Yeah. Yeah. That's the last thing you fucking want. I don't no. So much So we were doing a fucking obstacle course and I pulled a hamstring really bad. So bad that I thought I had broke my leg. Oh shit. Yeah. The next day I went to I had to go to sit hall'cause I could barely walk. And the only thing they could tell me was like, why don't you have your wife massage it? I'm like thanks doc. Okay. Solid medics. Those are the guys working at the VA now. Yeah. They're the doctors. Exactly. And the next day, he's, next day they make me do a PT test. Yeah. You failed the run. Oh, I fucking wonder why I failed that fucking run. I wonder why. Yeah. You saw me hobbling around the goddamn track. I always hated when we did it on the track.'cause it's just circles. Let me do an out and back. I'm gonna run it better. Like towards the old barracks and back. Yeah. Just go down a mile, turn around and come back. So much easier. But when I just gotta run circles on that stupid track. I don't know how far I'm gone. I don't know my pace. Like it's, I'm always, I'm slow anyway. It's not getting anything right here. It's not like I'm running a 12 minute, two miles. Like I'm pushing the fourteens if that like 1450. I'm like, Ooh, that was a good time. I, the way I did it was whenever we took it, you usually, it was straight past the shop at, I can't remember the, that name of that. It wasn't a show. I can't remember. Maybe it was, I don't remember all the way down towards Lafayette or Ashaw or something like yeah. All the way towards the old Rock on barracks and you turn around, come back. And the way I did it was there was a guy on our platoon, I don't know you remember Marcus Burns? Yeah. Yeah. He was a firefighter. Yep. And he worked at the serial company, general Mills or something. That's the one, yeah. I would, I always told myself, if you can stay with him until the turnaround, you'll be good. So I would stay with him all the way to the turnaround. And once we made that turnaround, he would fucking take off. I'm like, I got nothing left. I'm good now. I know I'm gonna make a decent time. And that's how I would survive. See, I couldn't do that.'cause then on the way back I'd be like, fuck it, I'm done. I would just really slow down if I ran too hard. Like I hadn't, I still have no running mental capacity. That's what the Army did to me. It ruined my and I don't enjoy running to this day. I'm like, I fucking hate it. That's all we ever fucking did. Every, oh, it's gonna be an easy day. We're gonna do two miles. I look forward to that. Yeah. The only run I've ever enjoyed is when I ran the New York City Marathon. I. Because the whole run, there was fucking crowds of people. That's awesome. And it was like September 2nd, or no, November 2nd. It was like cold and windy and it was a fucking raan day. It was the coldest, windiest, rainiest, marathon they'd had up there in 20 years. And I'm like, great. It's the day I decide to fucking run it. But I would just stop and I had my cell phone. I would take pictures with people. Like I didn't even care that I was my time. I was just running it to run it. That's awesome. And I ran on these people and they're standing there, it's 25 degrees and they're shirtless with their chest painted drinking beer on coolers. I'm like, you guys fucking rule. They had to have been grunts at some point. Jesus Christ. Either that or just drunk ass college kids. Something. But I was like, I stopped and I got a selfie with it. You can go on my Facebook page and it says New York City Marathon. There's a selfie with me with some shirtless dudes. That's awesome. I ran the Detroit half Marathon. I never could do the whole. This was back when I was doing like Ironmans and shit. That was, I remember that was my coping mechanism for all my, for all of my demons. I stopped drinking, stopped doing anything, and I just said, I'm going to, I'm gonna put myself through so much pain that I'm just gonna sleep good every night. And then it worked for a little bit, but then it stopped working. And so I went on to try something else. Like you, I know you said Juujitsu helps you, but that for a while, but it's the same. Yeah. That helps for a while. And then you gotta move on to something else. Like I, I got my blue belt and I haven't been on the mats in over a year. That's a whole other story. That's my gym went south and I gotta find a new one. But like after a while it's just okay, I'm not getting the same effect anymore. What else can I do? Yeah. And for me. I get that effect when it's gonna sound stupid. But when, in the course of my duties during my job, if someone runs for me okay, yeah, that, that's your adrenaline rush. I get that same old generation for just a, for a brief second until I catch'em, I'm that young soldier again. Nice. Yeah. And unfortunately, it's not all the time, but there's times where I'm, we're pulling over a car and I'm like, almost leaning, I'm almost hanging out the passenger side. Please run. Please run. Please run. And they don't, I'm like fuck. All right, I guess I have to do something different tonight to fucking. Work that demon out. You're that little Belgian Malinois just sitting in the passenger seat going fucking earth, let's go. Yeah. But the only difference is my legs don't work as good as his does anymore. My Achilles is I'm gonna snap on you, bitch. Yeah. Don't run too fast. Let's not go out hard. Let's take our time getting started. That's what it comes down to. Yeah. I don't feel it till after I get that adrenaline spike and afterwards I'm like, Ugh. Yeah. Then the body hurts my back. Yeah. I played 18 holes with my uncle last year, and I didn't, I couldn't stand up straight for almost two weeks from 18 holes. I'm like, what is wrong with me? That, that sounds right though. Fuck. It would kill me too. Like I, man, I used to golf all the time though. It was like, I don't know. I wasn't even, I didn't even feel like I was swinging hard, but it is, it was rough, but yeah, I tried. I doing Iron Man's fricking, I went and lifted weights for a while, that only lasted so long. I've tried just about everything to make myself tired to sleep at night. Fricking everything. Tried alcohol for a while. I knew that was bad. Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. I've been trying to cut it back. I've changed my diet recently and I've given up beer. Beer is for special occasions only the, that's what I tell my wife, like 4th of July beer. Any other day during the weekends, it's gonna be whiskey. Okay. How about that? That's a good deal, but I know. Deep down I gotta kick that too and I will. I've managed this far. As long as you're not sitting there, just pounding away to where you're just falling down drunk and you're doing it every day by yourself, that's where you get into trouble. That was me. Like that would, yeah, I, and I get that, that would've been me. If I didn't have my wife. I probably would've been, worse off situation than I am now. Yeah. I know. I would be my demons would've progressively got ahold of me. I don't even know if I'd be able to hold onto my job. Because when I got to college, and that was tough enough itself, I'm like, I didn't realize that it was the way I was talking to people. I was talking to'em like they were soldiers, and people were like, what? This guy's such a fucking dick. Yeah. And I, man, I'm just being me, i. I didn't have any coping mechanism then and then, so solely, but sure surely it became alcohol because honest to God, one of the hardest things, and they mention it, but they don't ever talk about it a whole lot, is the separation anxiety, the waking up the next morning after you ETS and you're not gonna see your guys that day or the next day or the day after that. And I never really knew the toll that would take. Yeah. And that's what I wrestled with the most. Oh, I brother, you are preaching to the choir. I felt it.'cause when I got med boarded, I got handed a piece of paper and they said, you got five days to clear post, you're gone. Jesus. I didn't get any time to go home to interview. Like my out process was like a week and then I was out. Like I remember crying that first night going, what the fuck am I going to do? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have anywhere to live. Luckily, I had a girlfriend that was living in Franklin, Tennessee at the time, and she was like you can come stay with me till you figure shit out. And I'm just like okay. Just threw what little bit of shit I had in storage and I was just like, I was lost forever. Yeah. No I get it. Less than a year after I-I-E-T-S and moved back to Michigan. I was LI, I looked for excuses to go back to Campbell. I put in an application for gate Guard, which I. I'm lucky I didn't get, because that wouldn't have been, that wouldn't have made me feel whole again. Yeah. I was looking to feel whole again. And the only thing that would've made me feel whole again was to go back in into the Army. But at the time, I didn't know any better. I drove all the way from Michigan down to Fort Campbell just to check on it. Damn. Just to check on the fucking application because I wanted to be back in that atmosphere again. Yeah. And that's when I knew, I was like, man, you were never done with this and you left it. And I had been diagnosed with PTSD and the Army just wasn't fucking touching anybody with it. And I tried to go back, I don't, I can't tell you 8, 7, 8 times and they just weren't having it. That sucks. Yeah. That was, I even got a hold of Michigan's governor at the time. I sent'em an email. He actually wrote me a letter back and he assigned a warrant officer to be an, as an investigator.'cause I'm like, I can't get into the National Guard, this is ridiculous. And he said he, he assigned a warrant officer. Warrant officer called me, said, Hey, I'm gonna be investigating your case. Just stand by. Let me see what I can find and do for you. And a couple months went by, he called me. He was like, yeah, I can't do anything for you. Basically that's it. And just because of all the stuff you'd been through, they were just like, this is gonna be too much. We can't risk it. And I had, even then, I didn't give up. I called the recruiter one time and he's we're not taking anybody with mental disorders.'cause I had told him, I was diagnosed with PTSD and I was like it's good'cause it's an anxiety disorder. And he was like we're just not, we're not taking anybody like that. I'm like, huh. I told him, I'm like, it's not his fault, but at the time I was just taking my anger out. I was like so much for the same blood in the same mud hub brother. Oh fuck. And he just hung up on me. Yeah. That. See, but that's the thing, that's what we need though, especially even those of us out. Like I know at the end the outro to all my podcast, it says social connection, save lives. It's true. It is. It's I can't tell you. Now, it has to be reciprocated. I can reach out to you all day. But if you're in that place and you're not even going to answer or look at your phone, there's nothing I can do. Because I can tell you, I texted link, I called him. He never called me back. He never texted me back. I knew he, I, I had been waiting for this call for a while. I just didn't expect it to come yet. I thought it would be a year or two, but I knew it was gonna come. Just he got lost and I'd hope maybe he would come out of it, but he didn't. But social connections do save lives. They do. We all have Facebooks, but nobody fucking checks their messenger. You do, thank God. Otherwise we wouldn't be sitting here talking. But a lot of people I've messaged so many of the people we've served with'cause I don't have. Everybody's phone number from back then, and if they did, it's probably a different number anyway. But nobody responds. So we can try to connect with everybody, but if it's not reciprocated, like it's hard to get these guys out of that bunker and into the light where the rest of us can reconnect and be that brotherhood again.'cause that's what's gonna keep us alive. Absolutely. And but at the same time, like there's only so much you can do, like we were talking about that, that individual, they need to want to accept that. I think a lot of times when you don't hear back or I think they've probably already surrendered to their demons at that point. And that's a terrifying thought. Yeah. Unless you're close enough to go find him and see him face to face. That's the only other way to, to get'em.'cause you, if they see us, if we see each other, we're gonna break down and we're gonna admit it, oh, yeah. There's someone we both know that he, they were close and I drove and I saw him and they just, they lost it. And they're still here today. That's awesome. And I often think about when you've talked about, starting a reunion for a platoon and everything. And call me a bitch, whatever you want to call me, but I know that I would just break down seeing all of you together again. Oh, it'd be, I, you're not gonna be the only one dude. Yeah. You're not gonna be a bitch. It would I think about that often. I. Because nothing has ever been able to, all the places I've gone, all the miles I've walked nothing's ever been able to replace that. Oh, absolutely. I don't get me wrong, I found a little bit of, a little of that brother hood here and there as far as law enforcement is concerned, but it's never the same as, seeing second platoon or hearing second platoon yell bastards when we're called to attention. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. It's not. That never will be. And I think that's the thing I struggle with the most. I'm like, I'm never going to hear that again. I'm never going to be that again. Who am I now? You're always that, I will say, you're always gonna be a bastard. Yeah.'cause we are, we're just never gonna be in that role again. Yeah. Is the difference. And I don't know. I'm too old now to do it. I'm too old and fat. Like I can't throw on that ruck sack and go, I could probably still carry the weight. I'm just not gonna carry it as far. Me too. But me too. There's no way I would definitely be like, I need a break. I don't care what anybody says. Yell at me. I don't give a shit. I gotta sit down. Like I'm just too fucking old for this. Yeah. Gore and I were joking about that one time. I don't think you were with us yet, but we did a 25 miler. Ugh. And he was fucking with me, and he's you won't carry that two 40, the whole 25 miles. He's you're, he's you're a puss. And I'm like, fuck you gore. Fuck you. Yes, I will. And I did. I carried it the whole way. It was to the point where my arms, I was so dehydrated, my arms were literally almost like locked into position and they told me like, Baldino and him were like, you need to get him to the medics now. I believe it when we got back. He's he needs to go get IVs. And of course I'm laying on the ground. I got both arms out. They got I IV in each arm and Gore walks by. He goes, is that a gravy iv? Because that's the only thing that's gonna help him. And I'm just like, you, motherfucker. Like you never stop with me. That's where you got it then, because we were at a platoon party one time and you were trying to goad me into punching a dude in the face. Oh, probably. Yeah. Probably like you're not, you tell me you're not Irish. Oh, I remember that now. Man. You're a bitch. Go hit that guy. Yeah, I just got specialist. Why are you trying to get me to lose it? Oh'cause no one would've punished you. I would've made sure of that. I'd been like, nah, he's good. He was just drunk. Definitely would've happened. That's funny. Yeah, I forgot about that until now. You're not Irish. Irish people like to fight. Come on. I was getting so upset. I'm like throwing my hat on the ground. I'm like, I'm fucking Irish. I'll show you. Yeah, that's probably where I got it.'cause Chad is, he's so good at that. Him and I, we con and even now we still do I'll go up and hang out at his house and he'll start to make a fire. I'm like, you don't know how to make a fire. Like you suck. You are a city boy, dude. You grew up in Los Angeles. I grew up in sticks of Pennsylvania. I'll make that fire show up man. I know what I'm doing. And then he'll go gasoline. He'll go, he'll start it and then he'll go get his little battery powered blower and he'll just hit it and then he'll just leave it on there for a while and the flames will go. He is see, I knew what I was doing. I'm like, oh my God, Jesus guy. Look at that. Yeah, city fire now. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. I don't know. I you were talking about, you watch how I met your mother on repeat. Oh God. I've seen it. I can't tell you how many times, in fact, I was watching it again. I'm back to like season two. I got I'm glad I'm not, I'm glad to hear that because I'm, I am glad I'm not the only person that does that. I got two shows that I watch on repeat, and I've been doing it on repeat for years. I watch Scrubs and I watch Supernatural over and over and over again. Sup Supernatural. Is that the one with they have the Dodge Charger? They have a Impala. An Impala, yeah. And they drive around it. It's, but for whatever reason, those two shows bring me comfort. I think a lot of it has to do, especially with Supernatural, with, brotherhood and having a purpose. And now that I'm talking about it, it makes sense. It just reminded me when you were talking about that. I'm like, wait, I do that too. I think it's just a, it's a comforting coping thing.'Cause if, like I, I started watching it again. A couple days ago I was just in, in a mood and whenever I just put it on I don't necessarily always watch it, but I hear it in the background. Yeah. Yeah. And it's almost it's just, it's soothing to hear ab Yeah. So I think it's a comforting, like It is. Yeah, it is. It definitely comforts me when I watch those. I went recently, this beginning of this year to defensive tactic schools, Def Defense, defensive Tactic school in Fort Moore, which is now Fort Benning again. Oh yeah. I was like Fort Moore for sure. Fort Benning. Yeah. Yeah. I was there to be a defensive tactics instructor and being at Fort Benning again just fucked me up. So I, I turned to those shows and I just watched them religiously. I'd get out of class, I'd go back to the hotel, and I'd put them on, and I'd watch it until it was time to go to sleep. So when you say it fucked you up, did it like stress you out, like just gave you the anxiety? What were you thinking? It was a, it was a combination of all of it. It made it ga it gave me anxiety. It made me very sad. In multiple ways. One that, this place shaped me. It turned me into the man I am today, of which I'll always be grateful for. People could talk shit about the army. All they want. The army saved my life as to where I was, my future, where I was coming from at the time. I didn't have a lot on the horizon. And also seeing. Caliber. Like I was driving on post at, six, seven in the morning and you would, you'd see onesies and twosies running around. Whereas, remember Campbell during PT time, there was fucking people everywhere, squats. Oh yeah. Platoons, brigades. You couldn't drive anywhere because it was PT time and I was just like, what the fuck is going on this place? And I was driving with another officer and I was like, see, when I was here you couldn't fucking move. Yeah. I don't like you see one and twos running around. I'm like, I don't, why isn't anybody doing fucking pt? Yeah. That's weird. It was wild to me, bro. I struggle with it. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? I wonder if that's pre stuff still before the SEC Dev. Like when, before he went in and changed all that shit and made it back to like regular standards and shit. Yeah, it definitely was before the Rock song got in. I know it's, I know the shit's changed now, thank God. But it was wild. You passed by a building and your mind goes back to, I'm a 43-year-old man going past this building and your mind goes back to seeing that 20-year-old private, with a shaved head wondering what the fuck he just did oh fuck I'm miserable. Do you remember what basic training unit you went to? Yep. What one Bravo 2, 5 4. Was that the house of pain? Nope. It was it was mailed foot. I'll cast my shoe over it. Mailed foot. Mailed foot. M-A-I-L-E-D. Mailed foot. That's not so badass. Like I, it was supposed to be like, so like the flash was like a an armored foot, like in a ladder and shit. It was just, it was ridonculous. Huh. But that's where Armstrong and I went and another guy who went, he came to our unit, but he went awol, so he doesn't fucking matter. That might have been one of the guys I was whispering to. I hope it was. Yeah. I hope it felt he was my, it was actually Ryan Armstrong and I, we had obviously we were in this, we were the bunk next to each other and both of our battle buddies were fucking turds. Oh shit. His battle buddy didn't fucking make it through. Basic. My battle buddy went to our unit, to the ance and then went awol before y all even got back from Afghanistan. Oh, what a dirt bag. But he was a fucking, but his battle buddy punched my battle buddy in the face with a fucking wall locker lock blood everywhere. It was awesome. Oh, those are the good stuff. It was pretty fucking amazing. I was Bravo Company two 19, the Rock of Chick Maua. I know that one. Yep. That's where I was Rock of. There was another one too. The Rock of the Marin. Yeah. I don't remember what the unit was, but Rock of the Mar. And then there was House of Pain. That must have been first of the 50th House of Pain. And there was another one, I can't remember what it was, but it had a funky name that I was always like, there was two I didn't want to go to. I knew it was the house of Pain and the other one. And then we ended up having a fucked up one.'cause we had a cherry drill sergeant and. He was a bitch. He let all the other drill sergeants influence him. Wow. And there was not a chance of that happening to us gi, given that our, one of our drill sergeants was a rock on. Oh yeah. We also had the drill sergeant school right next to us, so we always had like trainee drill sergeants coming over and fucking with us. Yeah. Yeah. So it sucked. Or like the reservist, drill sergeants. Yeah. Yeah. On the weekends they were always messing with us. But anyways. But let's get back to the social connection side. Yeah. No, I love everything. Like I, I love just shit shooting the shit.'cause that's what we're talking about, like social connections right there. That's the stuff that we need to do more of with our guys. And that's why I started this podcast. I just wanted these guys to come on, tell the funny stuff, tell the story so that yeah, that they could have their grandkids listen to this one day. When they forgot all this stuff and they could come back on and say, Hey, listen to this. Yeah. This is, this was me 20 years ago when I remembered everything. It's a little vulgar, but hey, yeah. But they'll be all right. You don't want to go to war with anybody who doesn't fucking curse, if you who we didn't go to with him Kilgore. He was a lieutenant before you. He was a Mormon. And that makes sense. I served with many a Mormon in the border patrol, so I get that part. I made him cuss in the field. This is an epic story. I don't think I've ever told this, but we were in the field in the back 40, we were training, and I was the company, RTO. This was when Fat Bob, captain Risdon was with us. And I was, I asked him. We were doing a three week training problem and we were like week two. And it was a shitty like rain the whole time. It was just miserable out there. And we got one day of sunshine, Bob came out and we were sitting there sunning, drying out our gear, and it was like a Friday. And I said, Hey, can I put out a net call that we're gonna go back to the rear for one day and dry our gear out, go home and everyone's gonna see their families, and then we're gonna come back out on Saturday and finish the rest of the field problem. Yeah. Why do you wanna do that? I said, I want to test their mental capacities. And he goes, all right, go ahead and do it. And so I filled in all the platoon RTOs. I told him what I was gonna do, so I put out the net call. So everyone is the whole company is like excited, right? Like the morale is way up. And then 30 minutes later, I put out a net call belay that order. Black six says, we're gonna just stay out here and finish the field problem. It's better for us. And then he somehow Kilgore finds out it's a joke. I think Middleton, who is the platoon, RTO, is like laughing. He comes up to the cp, he's storming up Derrick. And he's and this motherfucker right here. And we're all like, holy shit. Kilgore a Mormon just said the F word at me. Ugh. Like he had a swear jar in the cp, like if you swore you had to put a dollar in it. And his platoon sergeant, Sergeant Wimmer used to put a 20 in it like on Monday. So he had, he was covered for the week. And I, we were all in shock. And he's he wanted to write me up for a field grade article 15. Like he was mad. And Captain, captain Risin goes, no, we did that to test our mental capacity and if you can't handle this, you're never gonna handle combat. He said, this stuff happens all the time. And he covered for me. And then he looks at me and he goes, that's awesome. He goes, you little asshole. He goes, you can't fucking do. I said, you said I could, I asked you. Yeah. And he went off on me about it, but I got the okay first. Like I wouldn't just do it. Do you have to dry your magic pajamas, sir? Yeah. It's fuck. I used to carry his dip too because his first wife didn't want him dipping and he would leave it in his ruck sack and she would like unpack it to wash it and find his dip and she'd get mad. So I would carry his dip in my ruck sack so that he wouldn't forget it and I'd just give it to him, in his office and shit, so he could dip at work. It was funny. Not gonna find many stories like that outside of it. It, what sucks is that when we leave, we go all in our separate directions and you feel that distance. At least I do. Oh no. We're scattered everywhere, but it's, we gotta find each other again and try to reconnect like this. These Zoom calls are great'cause we can see our faces. I know I. Everyone listening, it's an audio podcast, but everyone I've asked to do it, they don't want their faces seen. So that's why we don't have a YouTube channel, it's great. Yeah. You can show mine. I'm pretty, yeah. I'm not, nobody wants to see me, but, they're willing to do the audio part, but they, they're hesitant about their faces being shown and I get that, so that's fine. But we could see each other while we're talking and I think that would be big for a lot of us. Yeah. And we could do these even without recording, just to connect with people. That's an idea that we could do. Just have a raus on call once a month. That would be awesome. And get as many of us as we could just to stop these.'cause I can't take much more of these. I can't either. Thank God we haven't had many of our brothers, but God help us if we're out there. We've had Wayne Malick. Yeah. I think there's been a couple others, but I don't want to have any more is what No I just, I beg I'm not the most emotionally stable person, but fucking reach out to me or something. Yeah. Even if they don't have my phone number, i'm always excited to talk to one of my brothers you, you sent that tonight. My wife and I are getting ready for bed. I was like, no, fuck no. I'm gonna go jump on this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. I'm glad you did. This would've been really hard alone, I promise you. No. I wouldn't have let you do it alone. As soon as the way you worded it, I was like, all right, I gotta go. It's that connection that you really, you you crave, you want, you miss, and no, no one else is gonna be able to fill that no matter how hard you try. And I've struggled with it. Especially when I got out trying to call the guys. I knew they were busy. They're getting ready to go to Iraq again and stuff like that. And, we're doing this, that, the other thing I can't talk right now. And I get that, but man, when I got out, I struggled really hard. And I am genuinely shocked that I turned out as well as I have. And I put a lot of that credit on my wife. I would a crash burn a long time ago. Yeah. She's amazing. I've never met her, but I know she's amazing. She I wouldn't be able to put it into words, like when I first met her, we've probably not even a year into our relationship, I had to, sit her down and tell her about fav, Fisher and tell her these stories. Look, I'm not. Just to give you a warning or a heads up I'm not the easiest person to be in a relationship with, and this is what you're gonna have to contend with for, however many years that was, 16 years ago. She's a good woman. I let the fuck out. You out kicked your coverage for sure, buddy. Oh fuck yeah, I did. I tell you that to this day, she still, I might get a few drinks in me and I start singing songs and crying and she just takes it okay, I get it. Yeah. And that's hard for families.'cause like I know links, his family was just wore out. They tried everything. They tried private healthcare that they paid for. I. They tried everything under the sun. And that's hard for families'cause they, like you said, they don't know. They don't understand. And the veteran doesn't communicate that well. We don't always help them. We try to tell them and the first thing we always say is, you don't understand. You'll never get it.'cause they won't. And they don't. And we can't tell them the things we've seen. No. We can't say what we're thinking.'cause it would scare them. Yeah. It would just horrify them and, but we can say it to us. Yeah. Be because we've, we know. We understand. We've been there. We've saw it, we lived through it. So that's why these social connections, when I say social connections, I say with us brothers, our family, our tribe as you call it that's what's gonna save us. It is. 100%. And what made me hyper aware that we have our own tribe, we have our own identity together, was during the past four years of all this woke bullshit. And we should put everybody in boxes and everybody is this, everybody, either you're white or you're black, or you're this or you're that. And we should stay in those boxes. And I remember getting, really fatigued with all that bullshit. And then there was the George Floyd thing and everybody was hated. Cops, several members of my family and friends. And I'm like, you know what I do for a living? And they would just talk shit. And I remember thinking, why are you so upset? You have a tribe of your own. You already have your community. Yeah. Fuck those other people. And in this community it's white, black, Hispanic, Asian. Or otherwise, none of that matters in our community. I think that's what makes our community, part of what makes our community special, is that regardless of where you're from, regardless of what you look like or what you believe, there's something that binds us together. And it's a choice. It's not it's not, something that you were born with. You chose to be part of this out outcast group, and to me that makes it even more special. Oh, absolutely. Less than 1% joined the armed forces of all the people in this United States. So it's a select few. The Marines say it, the ch the few, the proud, the crayon eaters. The butthole. The butthole. But it, it applies to all armed forces. Other than the Air Force. They may have saved our lives in Afghanistan, but they save our lives all the time. But I get it. Come on. Shorts and t-shirts, eating subways. I was so upset. I don't know. I can't talk, I can't talk trash about the Marine Corps. Marine Corps, but I can love my, if there's Marines, listen, I love you. Nothing respect. I come from a Marine Corps family, but I ran into the first few times. I may have picked up an assault charge when I got out was against another Marine. Against a Marine. It was, I was working at this glass company, manual labor bullshit. And I remember running this guy, this fat guy, and he was just talking. He was like, I was wearing I, operation Iraq, freedom T-shirt. It was covered in shit.'cause I didn't care about it. Yeah. He's oh, are you there? Yeah, I was there. What branch? I was the United States Army. Guess what branch I was in? No, I don't wanna do that. You right away he is a fucking crayon eater. Just by how he's talking. I did. He was like, oh, it's a branch that hates you the most. And I was like, I don't know the fucking Air Force. But he was like Marine. Okay. So a couple weeks later, my buddy has a birthday in that same shop. Buddy I'd known since first grade. He got me the job'cause I was, lost and it was his birthday. And I'm like, you know what we do in the army, or at least in my platoon, when it's your birthday, we give you fucking massive pink belly. Oh fuck yeah. Hold you down and beat that ass and, or beat the belly. But yeah, this guy, yeah, this guy says it sounds like something faggy of the army to do. And I had it at that point I was holding a broom. In a dust pan. I fucking slammed that shit on the ground. And I was like, you say one more goddamn word about the United States Army. I'm gonna take you outside. I'm gonna beat the fuck outta you. I was just kidding. And I was a little sensitive at this time. Yeah obvi, Yeah, I get it. I was not even six months out. Oh, yeah. Fresh. Fresh. Yeah. So I wouldn't, do that. Now I have many Marine Corps family members and friends that I have nothing but respect, but at the time I was like, I'm gonna take every bit of my frustration out on your fucking ass. Who's just kidding? I'm not look like, I'm fucking kidding. No, I had a similar, it wasn't against a former Marine it was a hippie at I got escorted off campus by campus police. Oh, shit. Yeah. I had, I wasn't allowed back on campus till I showed him. I was in counseling at the va. What the fuck? It was, so it wasn't long after Jenkins died, like I had gotten out. They med boarded me again. It was short time. I went straight from there to MTSU. I was living with my girlfriend at the time and I was in a American, was it a Western Civilization two class? It was a history class. And this Japanese teacher, her first thing she always did was talk about current events. 2004, all we talk about is Iraq. That was the hottest ticket going. And this hippie with matted hair, I could smell. He smelled bad, like just matted, dreads that hadn't been cut in years, just nasty. We're in the back row. He's three spots over. And he makes the dumbest comment anybody could make. I'm glad they're dying over there. They deserve to die. And I'm just like, so Jenkins is the, I got survivor's guilt. I got all this shit. I hadn't been to counseling yet since I got out. So we're not long after Fisher FTO Jenkins, jumps on a grenade. Should have got the Medal of Honor. Kills himself. Other people that I knew had died demand had died. Gutierrez had died. Those were Gutierrez was my first squad leader and demand, he was in our unit before you got there. And I just are you fucking kidding me? I'm gonna fucking kill you right now. That I lost my mind. I flipped my desk and I was like, I went at'em and the two campus police were former Marines and they were just like, dude you can't fucking do this. You gotta get some help. So they put me in handcuffs. Walked me to my car, uncuffed me and said Dean says you have to, you can't come back till you prove you've been in counseling. And I had, that's when I started my counseling. At the va. If it takes that incident to get you into counseling, then, I'm glad it was two former Marines that put the cuffs on you because, they probably understood better than anybody else would've. Oh yeah. I didn't get arrested or anything'cause anyone else would've probably just took me straight to jail. They just took me to my car and told me I had to go to counseling and said, dude, we get it, but you can't do that shit. You gotta have more control. And I was just like, I'm gonna fucking kill that kid. When I got back to that class, that kid withdrew like he wasn't in that class anymore. Good. Fuck that motherfucker. Yeah. I was so mad. I had. I had something similar. I was in a African American Histories class and we had to do this big presentation and I chose the Harlem Hell Fighters Okay. Of the United States Army. And I did a whole presentation, and everybody had their note cards. They had to write what they thought. And same thing. This fucking nappy, like this, just this gross fucking hair. I'm gonna dye it. Red fucking piece of shit. Fucking white guy who grew up in the fucking burbs. He wrote, you're just brainwashed. After I gave 20 minutes, speech about the Harlem Hell fighters and how black Americans went and fought in World War I. Even though their country wouldn't fight for them, it was this big thing and I was very emotional about it. And I remember I read that'cause I was reading my cards as I was leaving class and I read that one. I turned around and walked right the fuck back. I went to the professor and I was like, where's this fucking guy? Where did, which way did he go? Why? I am like, because I wanna fucking kick the shit out of him. Yeah. No shit. He had, he made, he ended up giving me some speech about how it's better not to blah, blah, blah e Either way. The next week I went over to him and I fucking threw his card back at him and I was like, you don't have the balls to fucking say this to my face, do you? Dang. Not a fucking word from him. I didn't think so. I'm here talking about fucking soldiers and you, what have you done in your pathetic fucking life? Wow. Have you ever heard of the book? Odysseus in America and the Trials of Combat and Coming Home, I. Oh, what is that? It's a really good book. A history professor at MTSU actually bought it for me. And she was like, you know how like when you, in your degree you have a professor that's over you that walks you through it? She was my adv history advisor and she was the dean of the history department and she was like, you got some problems. I think you really need to read this book. So she went out and bought it for me and gave it to me. That's awesome. But so it's a professor. He wasn't a professor, but he was a counselor I think up in Maine somewhere, but he worked with Vietnam vets and he never served. And so he was trying to find a way to connect with these Vietnam vets. In a military way that they would understand, but yet he could relate with them having never served. And so he took the Odyssey and the 12 years that it took Odysseus to get home. Yeah. And all the different stops from the Trojan War after the Trojan War. And he related all those stops to the struggles that Vietnam make. Like one of the islands is the island of poppies. So he said the poppies represent opium, drugs, alcohol, all the things that Vietnam vets go to. There was a Nile where it was all about sex. In Vietnam, they had whore houses right outside the bases. So soldiers would relate sex with violence. Because they would fight and kill people and their buddies would die, and then they would just come and go right to the whore house and have sex. So he related all these things in the Odyssey for these vets to that, and it worked. And so he wrote a book for other counselors to read. And I actually, so my whole left arm being tattooed is the Odyssey. That's awesome. I have Cyclops on there. One of the things that Odysseus, when Cyclops asks him, he said, who are you? He says, I am no one. Because at that point he had lost almost all of his men. And he wasn't a combat soldier anymore. And so he said, I am no one. That's awesome. And so I had the tattoo artist write on there in the thing. It says, I am no one. And so that every time I looked down at my arm, I see. I am no one because like you, I lost my purpose after six years. Oh yeah. We all did. And anyone who gets out, especially the head served in combat with their brothers in bled, they're lost. And it's only us talking with each other that really brings them back and connects them and makes them feel part of that purpose. Absolutely. Like you said, you immediately reached back out to those guys and tried to stay in touch with them, but they were, they were dealing with their multiple Iraq deployments. But you can find, but the good thing about it is you can find that connection almost anywhere. So like I work with. There's three ex-Marines I work with and I bond with them. One of them was an old, he's an old, he retired gunny sergeant. I talk to him every day. He's actually security for our building and I make sure I go him away and talk to him because him and his name's Pat, because he was a grunt in the Marine Corps for 20 years. Good lord. Yeah. And him and I will send memes back and forth to each other and, we, we check up on each other and you don't, it's, nobody else in my office is doing that. Oh yeah hey, how's it going? Whatever. But it's those three guys, there's a different connection. Yeah. Because they've been there. They've been there and they know the look on my face some days or the way I sound, and they get it more than, better than anybody else. And I am grateful for that connection no matter where you go, whether it be the Army, whether it be the Marine Corps, whether it be the Navy. I have very close friends. Some of my border patrol classmates, my, my border patrol class was all veterans. There was a special class, whatever. So like I'm very, connected to those guys. I still talk to, I'm still in a group chat with several of them. And it's a safe haven. Yeah. No, that's good. And it's something that really helps me to be able to just turn to these guys, even if we didn't serve together, in the same branch or the same time. I. It's very cathartic. They understand, they know they have, they understand the stories about PTSD. That's part of my tattoo is I have, this whole thing represents PTSD. And it's nice to be able to talk to somebody who understands rather than be like, wow, this guy's just an asshole. We do get that, that target a lot. I know a lot of people don't walk up and talk to me because I always look like I'm an asshole. Now, granted in large crowds, I don't want people just randomly coming up and talking to me. So I'm gonna look extra like an asshole resting bitch face, whatever you want to call it. Resting dick face. Resting dick face. RDF. Yeah I definitely have that down to a science, but yeah I, when I'm out in public or. Allowed a lot. Like I, I'm not gonna be the guy that's smiling all the time, unless my son is doing something, then I'm probably smiling. But if it's just me yeah, I'm probably not the most approachable guy now. If I see, if I saw you, or another veteran that I serve with, or another veteran I knew that was a veteran and combat veteran, especially I'm gonna have a different Oh yeah. A different tone. Like it's gonna be, oh, hey man. I'm, it's softer. I, yeah I know, and I know exactly what you were saying. It's just, I guess I'm just thinking out loud and processing at the same time.'cause it's like I see both sides how people can be, like people think we're assholes just without us even saying a word to'em. And really we're just, I guess we're almost self-protecting. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. I put that face on even at work and it's, don't talk to me. Please don't speak to me. I'm not interested in anything you have to say. It's almost goes back to, Sergeant, mayor Pley, how do you know what kind of goddamn day it is? What fuck you? And tell me, good boy. Whatcha you a weatherman? Yeah. What the fuck are you a weatherman now? I don't give a fuck. Stuff like that. But other veterans see right through that. Yeah. And that's one of the, one of the things I really appreciate about working with, some of the veterans I work with, there's three or four of'em, and. It's always just, like everybody else will walk by oh fuck, don't talk to Benji. He's in a fucking mood, but the other guy's fuck's your problem and, we need that. We absolutely do. I'll run into my, a Marine Corps veteran a guy I work with, and he'd be like, God damn, you're ugly today. Everybody else will avoid you, but Yeah. And that puts a smile on your face and you're like, yeah, I'm just, I'm having a day. And then, then you talk about it and you get a little bit off your chest and it's good because before you come home, that shit's probably gone. It is. That's a tough thing, man. Try not to bring it home. Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately right now, me working from home and not having, other than this, or once a month, Jamie Gado, he does this phase line blue group where he just has combat vets in there. We do a group call and it's three o'clock on a, on the third Friday of every month. And, that's the only other time I get to talk to somebody, so it's, I don't have any, anybody I work with. I have, I'm lucky to have those guys. Yeah. There is, I know I like to listen to the pro, the podcast called Unsubscribe. Unsubscribe. It's ran by other veterans, I don't know if you've ever heard of donut operator. I. Or some other guys, they're YouTube guys, but they have a podcast called Unsubscribe. A bunch of veterans, they just, they drink and they talk about shit. And that honestly helps me. I don't know these guys, I've never met them, they've never met me. But it's almost like being in the, I'm I might drive to work in the morning. The sun's not up yet, and it's almost like being in the company of other veterans just listening to them. Yeah. It's soothing. It's almost like watching a show, over and over again. No, that's good. I'll have to look that up. I have not heard that one. I think I've seen clips of it on, tikTok. I think the donut guy, he does a lot of history stuff. He's like a big electrician. Oh, that's a fat electrician. That's okay. Yeah, he's, I was actually watching his shit today. Yeah, he's, I love his stuff. He did an Alvin York one the other day. I was watching that one. I just watched that one today. That's the one I watched did was Alvin York. Did you? Okay. Yeah. He was a medic in the army, the fat electrician. Oh, was he? Okay. I didn't know what his job was, but I knew he did the Alvin York one. I was like, that's a fucking good one. I knew some about Alvin York, but I didn't know a lot of it. Oh, Alvin York and Audi Murphy are the reasons why I chose the Army over the other branch. Oh, mine wasn't that easy. I was in line to join the Marines'cause I wanted that uniform. I'm like, I'm gonna get laid in. Who doesn't? I'm gonna get laid in this thing. Who doesn't want that uniform? That's a badass uniform in the recruiting office in Erie, Pennsylvania, where I went. The Marines were the second door Army was first, and so I was standing outside the Marines and recruiter was late, and so the rules are you can't fish another recruit from another office, so the Army recruiter never stepped foot outside the office. He stood inside his door drinking his coffee. He's what are you doing? I'm like, I was waiting on Marines. He's yeah, they're always late to the fight. And he totally fished me from them. He's yeah, when you're done talking Marines, he's just stop by and just say hi to me real quick. He's we got plenty more jobs than they do. He's we'll guarantee whatever job. He's just ask the Marines if you can get guaranteed your job. He's we'll guarantee anything. And I'm just like, okay. Fuck. So I asked the marine recruiter, I'm like, can I get guaranteed infantry? He's it's usually the needs of the Marines, wherever your job is. And I'm like fuck that. Yeah, I am out. That's basically, that's what basically did it for, because like I went to my recruiter and he's what do you think about doing? I'm like, I want my infantry. He's we have this. I'm like, no, you no. You're not listening to me. Yeah. Infantry or nothing. And but that was because I had spent my youth reading, reading stories about Alvin York and Adi Murphy and general Patton and I was like, man, I this is the branch I want to go to. Yeah. And that's what sold it to me. So I'm, I went and saw my recruiter and he was like we got mps. I'm like, no, I don't wanna be a fucking mp. Yeah. I wanna be, nobody wants that. I wanna look my enemy in the eye. And he was like, all right. You got it. That's awesome. Bud, I know you were getting ready for bed and I do feel much better. I just needed to get that shit off my chest anytime, brother. But I don't want to keep you too much longer. You got any closing thoughts before we get outta here? Oh, man. And just anytime anybody needs to, to just talk it, I will rather sit and listen as long as it, it needs to take, this goes for any veteran, whether I know them or not. I'd rather sit and talk you through these things then have to go to your funeral. I agree a hundred percent. That kills us all. Little by little every time one leaves us. It's. You're not just killing yourself, you're killing a part of everybody that, that served with you, everybody that loved or cared about you. Yep. That's what I was literally just gonna say. It's a ripple effect. It's like throwing a boulder or decent sized rock in a very calm pond. And the instrument you used is the initial splash, but every ripple after that is, is an effect of somebody else. And again, I know at the time we're never thinking about that, but I. We're here for anybody. That's what this podcast is for. It's for everybody. I know mainly we've had just us on it, but I've said from the beginning, I would have anybody who's a veteran, as long as they're willing to provide proof that they're a veteran, I'd have'em on here and talk to him.'cause it's literally these social connections are at some point, the only way we're gonna stop this. Yeah. We're the only we have to be each other's Our Brother's keeper. Yeah. You said it perfectly. Brother's Keeper earlier. Yep. And like I said, I'm always here. That goes for anybody. I'll do whatever I can. I just can't, I can't do it anymore to watch another veteran, let their demons win. Yep. Yep. I don't like getting these phone calls and I don't want to get them anymore, so whatever I can do to stop'em, I am trying, I, I can promise you that. I know you are so well, dude. Thank you for being on. Know Anytime, brother. I know it was last second and I really appreciate it. So get some sleep. Take care of you. I love you, dude. Love you too, bro. I look forward to listening to it. It'll be a good one for sure. All right, have a good night, dude. Thank you. All right, brother. You too. All right. Later. Bye. Thank you for listening to another episode of Memoirs of the Veteran. Remember, social connections, save lives. That's why we're here. If you served, call up someone you served with. Tell'em a joke. Let's laugh together. Brothers, if you didn't serve, but you know someone who did serve, call them up as well. And also, if you're a veteran in crisis, call 9 8 8, press one. If that's the veteran crisis number, there's always somebody willing to listen to your story. We love you guys. Take care. We'll see you in the next episode.