Stronger Marriage Connection
It's often said that marriage takes work. The Stronger Marriage Connection podcast wants to help because a happy marriage is worth the effort. USU Family Life Professor Dr. Dave Schramm and Clinical Psychologist Dr. Liz Hale talk with experts about the principles and practices that will enhance your commitment, compassion, and emotional connection.
More than ever before, marriages face obstacles, from the busyness of work and daily hassles to disagreements and digital distractions. It's no wonder couples sometimes drift apart, growing resentful, lonely, and isolated.
The Utah Marriage Commission invites you to listen and discover new ways to strengthen and protect your marriage connection today!
Stronger Marriage Connection
Connection: The Core of Human Experience | Adam Dorsay | #127
Connection forms the foundation of mental health and happiness, with disconnection from ourselves, others, the world, and something greater underlying virtually every psychological struggle we face.
• Four types of connection: with self (authenticity), others (relationships), the world (nature/art), and something greater (awe/spirituality)
• Modern distractions like social media, FOMO, and constant digital interruptions actively prevent meaningful connection
• Self-connection provides the foundation for all other connections - if disconnected from ourselves, we can't truly connect elsewhere
• Personal "connection formulas" vary widely - activities that energize one person may drain another
• Novel shared experiences allow families and couples to see each other through fresh eyes and strengthen bonds
• Friendships serve vital roles that romantic relationships cannot replace - no single relationship can meet all our connection needs
• Workplace connection can be found by developing valued skills and experiencing flow states even in less-than-ideal jobs
• Loneliness impacts physical health more than smoking, highlighting connection as a fundamental human need
The book "Super Psyched: Unleash the Power of the Four Types of Connection and Live the Life You Love" is available now on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, and you can learn more at DrAdamDorsay.com.
Adam's Resources
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Dr. Dave Schramm:
Dr. Liz Hale:
http://www.drlizhale.com
On today's episode, dr Liz and I are thrilled to be joined by Dr Adam Dorsey, author of the fascinating new book Super Psyched. Today, we're diving deep into the science of human connection, as Adam shares his groundbreaking framework of four distinct types of connection that shape our relationships. We also explore what gets in the way of meaningful connections in our modern world, and Dr Dorsey reveals his powerful connection formula that can transform how we build and maintain relationships. Whether you're looking to strengthen your personal relationships or better understand the bonds you share with others, you won't want to miss this insightful conversation.
Speaker 1:Dr Adam Dorsey is a licensed psychologist and executive coach in Silicon Valley, where he works with high achieving adults, including professionals, executives, entrepreneurs and professional athletes. Adam is also the host of the Super Psyched podcast and has given TEDx talks. His new bestselling book, super Psyched Unleash the Power of the Four Types of Connection and Live the Life you Love, is now available on Amazon and Barnes Noble. He regularly consults and speaks to numerous audiences, including keynotes and trainings to organizations including Microsoft, linkedin and the California Psychological Association. He is happily married, the father of young boys, and he has a hypoallergenic 33-pound Australian Labradoodle therapy dog named Raffy, who lives at his home and works at his office. We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. I'm Dr Liz Hale, a psychologist, along with my friend the professor Dr Dave Schramm, and together we have dedicated our life's work to bringing you the best we have in valid marital research, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. You know, Dave, as a psychologist really specializing in marriage therapy gosh, 33, 34 years now I naturally come across others in the marriage field. Right, you just naturally connect, yes, and talk about a gift to be able to do so and compare notes on trainings and interventions and et cetera. And yet also I long to connect to those specializing in different aspects of psychology in the field where I don't automatically come across them.
Speaker 2:For instance, I'm so curious about what goes on inside the office walls of an exceptional psychotherapist who does really good individual therapy. That relationship, I would think one-on-one has got to be so powerful. I kind of take the cop out when I see couples because that partner the one I'm not talking to, who's listening, is a little bit like a co -therapist, because they'll chime in and say, yeah, honey, I kind of agree with Liz. I think there's some truth to that. So I love, I love doing what I do. But our guest today, Dr Adam Dorsey, is one of those incredible professionals. Through the years he has effectively treated hundreds of patients, from adolescent gang members to Fortune 500 execs to professional athletes, all in the pressure cooker of Silicon Valley. Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection, Adam. So lovely having you.
Speaker 3:Liz and Dave I'm so happy to be with you and hello Rex, who all individual therapists are created equally.
Speaker 2:Clients report a variety of experiences, from high to low ratings. What would you say is your key to the success in individual psychotherapy? What's the logic?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, there have been a few pieces of magic. One of them comes from Daniel Siegel, who basically said there's this very hard to pronounce idea called interpersonal neurobiology. Essentially that you have your neurobiology, I have mine, and when we can bridge them, when we can really feel into each other, when we can attune, well, that is the job of a good therapist. My job is almost to be like, if you can imagine, a really great sports announcer, following the thoughts and feelings of the person sitting with me really well and being able to name those in real time and asking did I get it correct? We're not talking about, you know, passes or interceptions like they do on the football field. But if I'm sitting with some guy, I always call him Freddie because I've never had a Freddie. But let's say I'm sitting with Freddie, am I able to attune to his thoughts and feelings and allow him to feel felt? That would be thing one.
Speaker 3:Thing two was I remember when I was learning to be a therapist and I always wanted to sound like a therapist. I wanted to learn therapy as a second language and I always wanted to sound like a therapist. I wanted to learn therapy as a second language and I finally realized there was no such thing. The goal was to have really widespread knowledge, multiple tools in my toolbox, and to be me, and that has been the winning formula. My wife and I are very different. She's a great psychologist as well. She has her style, which is nothing like my style, except for the fact that we come from similar, similar orientations in some cases. But it's less about orientation, it's more about the fit of the people in the room, and I've also become very good at making sure that the person I'm seeing is the right person, the person who feels understood by me and also who I can say, based on my professional duty, that I have the knowledge to be able to help them. And I'm always very clear Is this somebody I can be effective with?
Speaker 2:Sure, do no harm, right that first. Yeah, yeah, very good. Well, it's, it's. It's very fun to be, fun to just be a fly on the wall. I'm watching you.
Speaker 3:Likewise, Liz, I'd love to watch you as well, I imagine you're very good.
Speaker 2:I love what I do.
Speaker 1:Adam, it makes sense to me that, um, I mean we're talking about connection here today, but you just starting out talking about connecting with those that you work with, I like to say you know, you offer, you establish a connection before you offer direction or correction, kind of in that order. You seem like a natural, again very personable and relatable, down to earth type of a person who can relate to a lot of people. I think what's so inspiring, Adam, is that while you often work with very high functioning executives or athletes, as Liz talked about, your focus is primarily on encouraging them to deepen their connections. Tell us a little bit about, I mean, without those connections, what concerns do you see?
Speaker 3:Sure, well, let's even just zoom out even further, like why connection? Why? Why would that be the criterion? And it was the book that just bit into cold of me, almost, like if you can imagine a pit bull, like grabbing onto your ankle and saying I'm not letting go until you've written this book. And it was because, if you think about the DSM, the diagnostic and statistical manual, the diagnostic and statistical manual, every, every condition has an aspect of disconnection within it.
Speaker 3:When we're depressed, we're disconnected from the present, oftentimes because we're tripping on the past. When we're anxious, we're often future tripping. When we are in a traumatic state, we are often dissociating, that's it. And when we are in a state state, we are often dissociating. And when we are in a state of psychosis, we may have a break from any reality at all as we know it. So if disconnection is the opposite of everything we want, it seems logical that connection would be at the heart of everything we do. And it's been corroborated by the fact that I've sat with people for about 20,000 hours and they keep talking about feelings of connection and feelings of disconnection. The feelings of connection seem to be good, the feelings of disconnection seem to be consistently bad. And the definition of connection itself is nebulous. If you look it up in the Webster's dictionary, connection is almost like two train cars connecting. I think there's more than that. I don't think that's what we're talking about in therapy feeling connected. When a comedian is rocking it with their audience, they are connecting, and so it's at the heart of everything.
Speaker 3:I went on a date last night. Didn't feel a connection. But what does that actually mean? I spent about two pages coming up with a working definition for connection, as I intend it. And it's vitality, it's life force, it is coming alive and you know it when you have it. I'm sure you've heard music that you just kind of thought I could take it or leave it, and others are like my body is saying a full body, yes here. And this happens with food. It happens with people you meet. It happens with pets you meet if you're a pet person, like I am. So connection is at the heart of it all. It seems to be the precursor to happiness and meaning.
Speaker 3:So in here, you know, obviously the clients I see need to feel a connection with me. I need to feel a connection with them in order for me to do my job, in order for that massive word of interpersonal neurobiology to transpire, there has to be a really good mind meld, there has to be a connection and, uh, you know, when you have it, sometimes we feel disconnected from our partners. It's terrifying, uh, if for those of us who've seen the still face experiment on youtube, where you see yeah, you're nodding, where you see a toddler who's really connected with her mom and the mom is cooing and making facial expressions and saying, sweetie, I feel connected with you, and then she's told to turn away and then look back with a blank face and the daughter immediately is trying to reconnect and can't, and you can see the daughter just become dysregulated, losing Frantic, frantic, frantic, yeah. And so we need to feel that sense of connection in this day and age all the more salient because we are more connected than ever online and yet less connected interpersonally.
Speaker 2:Ah, yes, so true, yeah, we're going kind of different, yeah, the different direction right, kind of conquering that online almost facade of connection and really kind of damaging interpersonal connection.
Speaker 3:It's almost like the NutraSuite of connection.
Speaker 2:It's not real yeah yeah, well said, your book is super psyched. I love it, love it so much. It's down in my office now so I can tell clients about it, but it is the ultimate handbook for unleashing those connections and living the life you love. How did you decide to write your book?
Speaker 3:You know, it just kept showing up this word called connection.
Speaker 3:The pitfall just took hold of me. There was no way I wasn't writing this book. I knew the right book would take me when it did and this was the one. Uh, I've been a connector since I was born. Uh, an unusual connector. My mom describes pushing me in a stroller, saying that more than any other baby she'd ever seen, I was just constantly pinging other people, uh, just trying to connect. So, uh, that actually led me to live in Japan for a number of years and learn the language and live in Spanish speaking countries.
Speaker 3:I've, I've cared about intercultural connection, uh, cross-lingual connection, Um, and, of course, you know, connecting really well with the people in my life and the pets in my life. I have found that in this time of profound loneliness, at the heart of that, and a lot of these studies are taking place in Utah, I believe at the university of Utah, where they have uncovered the fact that loneliness itself can be worse than smoking. 15 cigarettes a day can be more indicative of our mortality than, or predictive of our mortality than, various cardiological readings. The Cambridge longitudinal study shows that, no matter who you are, whether you're an educated Harvard person or a blue collar person from Southie Boston what matters most in terms of predicting the length of our lives and the quality of our lives is the quality of our connections. So I decided to look at it, you know, through four lenses, since there are four ways we connect.
Speaker 3:There are books on how to connect with your you know you, Liz, know more than anybody as a couple of therapists. All the books, whether they're written by Stan Tatkin or Terry Real or Esther Perel, are about finding ways to connect with your partner. So there are a lot of books on connecting with your partner and they're great. I love those books. There are some books on connecting with your clients, some books on connecting with your children. But what about the four ways we connect, just in and of themselves? So if you can imagine four concentric circles, almost like ripples in a pond at the nucleus, it would be how we connect with ourself. It's not narcissistic, it's not selfish. How we connect with ourself informs all of the other connections. If I'm not connected with myself, if I have a, I mean I'm going to be really kind of visceral for a second. But imagine somebody jammed a thumbtack into my big toe before this interview. How well would I be connecting with either of you?
Speaker 2:I would not be connected to myself.
Speaker 3:I'd be slightly distracted and I and I really would not enjoy that experience. I certainly would not be able to access my best thoughts for this podcast interview. Similarly, if I you know, you remember those ads on TV where they show somebody with nasal congestion and they look like a giant nose. I don't know if you've ever experienced that, but I certainly have where I just feel like I'm walking through life as a giant nose. I'm not connecting with myself very well. All I'm feeling is like this roadblock between you know myself and my nose, and then it informs my ability to connect with somebody at the Walgreens counter. I mean, it's just not as good.
Speaker 3:So how we connect with ourself is essential and I would say it comes down to authenticity. It comes down to figuring out how much sleep we've gotten, how much of this stuff I'm holding in my hand, also known as hydration. If we're profoundly dehydrated, we're not going to be very connected with ourselves or others. So connecting with ourselves is paramount. It's the first thing and there are many ways to do so and I really get into it and geek out to it, up to and including how we use our time off. Second level is how we connect with others. How am I connecting with the two of you? How do I connect with my wife? How do I connect with my children and my pets and my clients? Those are others. How do I connect on the third level is how do I connect with the world? The world could include art, could include nature, could include my ancestry and other things, ancestry and other things. And on the fourth circle, it's how do we connect with something greater?
Speaker 3:For religious people, it could mean their relationship with God. For the most spectacularly, uh, orthodox atheist, uh, even they would go on, since I'm talking to Utah could go to Zion national park and say wow, wow. They would say wow, wow, they would say wow. They'd say that at the grand Canyon, they would say it during the solar eclipse, and that would be indicative that they are connecting, even if they don't believe it comes from God. It could be science, it could be just being awestruck.
Speaker 3:We now have put the concept of awe, a-w-e under a microscope and have found that when we say wow, we are generally in an awestruck state and we are in something spiritual. In 2017, for example, when there was the solar eclipse out in Oregon, strangers were hugging. Strangers because they stopped thinking about themselves because they were so awestruck. And if you put their brains under micro you know neuroimaging you'd see that the same receptors that awe hits are the same receptors that psilocybin, the psychoactive element in magic mushrooms, hits. So we can have awe and have the same benefits, or some of the same benefits, as taking an illegal substance that could have, you know, could have some unwanted side effects. But you get all the good stuff by experiencing awe.
Speaker 3:And we can experience awe any day, any time of day, just watching pancakes being formed from a liquid to a solid could be an awe-inspiring or just looking at the fire in your fireplace is awe-inspiring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if we don't miss it, right, if we don't miss it, if we start paying attention, I think we could be odd all the time 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:Liz. We'll be right back after this brief message. And we're back, let's dive right in. So and, liz, that's a great point. I mean that there's all kinds of of things now. Today we live, I call it, in a day of distraction. Adam, what are some of you, the biggest distractions I guess from? From these connections? What would you say?
Speaker 3:I'm gonna give a couple smoking guns. Let's start with social comparison. I roll up into my, into my driveway with my brand new car, bought it with cash. My first time ever this literally happened, and in my neighborhood I would say that many of the cars dwarf the sticker price of my brand new car by 2x to 3x. I could feel diminished. I could say, oh my gosh, how unfair or how inadequate am I to have a lesser car, except I know that's social comparison and I want to override that tendency. I could feel bad about what I have because someone else has something better. So social comparison is a big distractor. Another big distractor is FOMO.
Speaker 3:Last night I bought tickets to see a comedian this is no joke and I realized I was tired and I just really wanted to be with my wife and son. I decided to just let it go and I decided consciously to experience, instead of fear of missing out, which Patrick McGinnis, the guy who created FOMO, he describes us as FOMO sapiens, which I think is pretty funny. Um, but I decided to engage in Jomo, the joy of missing out, and instead I doubled down on being with my, my wife and son. I did miss out on seeing with my, my wife and son. I did miss out on seeing a really, really good comedian and I'm a little bummed. My sister had seen him the night before and said you cannot miss this. It was Alex Moffitt of Saturday Night Live. This is a. This was a big deal and I still decided to forego it. I just really wanted to just experience the joy of missing out, and we can all do that. I, if I had gone, I was just, I was just too tired. I just really needed to chill in my little, in my little sweats and fuzzy slippers.
Speaker 3:Another one that we can experience is this little. You may have seen one of these. There's this little blue light that I have in my pocket is attached to a smartphone and it says look at me, look at me. You know there might be somebody standing right in front of me, but it's still saying look at me because you just got a text dopamine, dopamine. Let's see who's I mean, let's see who's texting me. That's so exciting, but there's a person right here, right in front of me or maybe I'm meant to, you know, actually take a five minute nap, um, but no, no, no, uh, that phone. It's Colin, and I can't wait to find out what's behind the mystery and what is this person going to say. Uh, social media, oh my gosh. And you know just how how many people feel great after a real spelunk into the social media reality. Not too many, I would say.
Speaker 3:I think that generally, on the other side of using social media, it actually uses us. So one of the things that I've told people because we do need a control, alt, delete, we need a system override. When we're engaged in these kind of defaults, we need to be more conscious about what we're doing and ask ourselves how do I, how do I use social media but not let it use me? How do I create more and consume less? And what would be consistent with creating? Would it mean that I'm gardening? Would it mean that I'm writing? Would it mean that you know I'm doing a project with my son? Whatever it is? But one thing we know for sure is when we create more and consume less, we tend to experience more flow.
Speaker 3:And so to your point, dave, the distractors are omnipresent these days.
Speaker 3:The news is a big one.
Speaker 3:We can, I mean, everything feels urgent.
Speaker 3:General Eisenhower had this beautiful X and Y axis where he said there is, there are urgent things, and there are important things, and oftentimes the urgent keeps pinging us and we never get around to the important. And so it's really important that we not that we that we figure out how much of social media do we want to use, how much media do we want to expose ourself to, and to be really conscientious about this? Think of it as salt or sugar, like some, is good. Too much may mess us up. So and everybody has different levels, but I can tell you seeing urgent, urgent, urgent coming across the media all the time Fear, fear, fear, anger, anger, anger.
Speaker 3:It does bad things. It causes us to have what's called you'll appreciate this and I'm sure you're familiar with this but the part of our brain that handles these emotions of anger and fear is the amygdala, and over time, the amygdala can actually hijack a part of our brain called the prefrontal cortex, which helps us make decisions and plan and do other things. And when we're too much in fear watching social media, watching the news, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, talking only about how terrible things are we end up unwittingly hijacking a very important part of our brains. So these are all some of the distractors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, all kinds, and they're really limitless. I would say especially they're limitless. All kinds of things that are really begging for our attention, right, our attention. I like to say lack of attention leads to loss of connection. If you're not consciously paying attention to that person or that relationship, then you'll naturally drift apart. I love your idea, adam, of helping clients create a connection formula, right, how does that look exactly? And do you mind taking us through the steps of forming our own connection formula?
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. There's often a chasm between what we know and what we do. There's often a chasm between what we love to do and what we actually do, and I would ask everybody to just think back in the last three months, how much time have you spent doing the stuff that really brings you joy? How much time have you spent with people who really bring you joy? How much time have you spent doing the things that actually you think are kind of important to like social media, but actually maybe don't bring you joy? How many times have you woken up on a Saturday morning boiling some coffee, petting the dog, folding the laundry, watching Netflix, answering texts and emails all simultaneously while doing none of these things?
Speaker 3:We all do that. We go for what is easy rather than and oftentimes, the really cool stuff. Like going for a bike ride requires a little bit of you know what I call activation energy. It may cost a little price of admission. You got to pump up the tires, get out the bike rack, put it on the car, make sure the chain's all good, and then you go and like where am I going to bike? I mean out here in San Jose. Usually it's going to require a little bit of driving to get to the spot.
Speaker 3:I don't. Maybe in Utah it might be a little bit better where you can just do it from your house, but generally speaking there's a little bit of a cost, energy, and most time we want to do what's easy. So how do you find that formula? You ask yourself what are your biggest feeders and how much are you putting them into play and how they relate to how you connect yourself, others, the world and something beyond. Each of us has different directives within. Each of us has different formulas for how we connect. For example, my dad goes to the opera regularly. I could go to the opera maybe once a season, and it better be a three hour or less opera.
Speaker 2:My dad can go to a six hour.
Speaker 3:Wagnerian opera and be like oh you know, and for me that's just a very expensive place to sleep. So in my dad could go five lifetimes without touching a dog or a cat. I can't go through a day, I, I, I need my animals. That's part of my. So we have different. My dad and I, even though we're so genetically similar, we have vastly different connection formulas in certain ways.
Speaker 3:So the important thing is not to try to impose someone else's connection formula onto yourself, but to really ask yourself what brings me alive. List of possible activities. They aren't. They are by no means the exhaustive list of activities to do, but some activities that might jumpstart people to think about. What are some things that I need to be putting into play on the regular for me to feel connected in one of the four areas, and each of us has different connection formulas. I'm a foodie. I got to go out regularly. That would be very important for me, so I guess I'd put it back to you. What are, if it's okay, dave and Liz, what is one thing that you know for sure on the other side of doing it, even if it requires some activation, energy, you're going to say to yourself that was time well spent. I felt alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. For me it's taking a walk. I mean, I walk more from my head than my hips. That's awesome. It's paramount for me to connect with myself first and foremost, before I can connect with my husband, others. God you know, I got to get my own head straight.
Speaker 3:So you were right at the nucleus. You needed to connect with yourself first. Put on your own oxygen mask first, before you get it. Yeah, got it, and that's, I think that. How about you, dave?
Speaker 1:I would say you know, snowboarding, sometimes just with my son there's, I get into that state of flow and the day goes by that fast and just carving through powder, there's it. Just it's like this is so great, so I love that oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:And the poor listeners who don't live in utah, which is probably most of us. I am told that the utah powder is the best ever it is, yeah, greatest snow on earth. Yep, that's right, and it requires activation energy, doesn't it, dave does?
Speaker 1:yeah, some planning and okay, it's 40 minutes up the canyon and and okay, I gotta get this that ready. Uh, the plan the night before. So yeah, it does. It takes some, some work actually to to arrive at that sense of flow, yeah and on the other side of doing it.
Speaker 3:How are you feeling?
Speaker 1:it is. It is like it's it's hard to explain like the rush, and I mean it's adrenaline, yes, but it's just like I'm lost. It's adrenaline, yes, but it's just like I'm lost in it. It's kind of like connecting with the world. It is just the sense of life is good right now, and all the other stresses and things it just melts away because I'm so dialed in to hitting the slopes, it's so fun.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to take a guess here that, liz, part of your connection formula is something you can do pretty much every day of the year, and that is go out on that walk, and you're probably way more available to the important people in your life after you're done. And I'm guessing every snow season for you, Dave. There's a particular number of times that you better be hitting the slopes, Otherwise, on the other side of the season, you're going to say, damn, did not meet my quota.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there have been those years that I'm like, man, I was so busy and I am. I'm really bummed, yeah, when I'm not able to do it as much as I want. That's that, that is a, that is a portion of each of your connection formulas.
Speaker 1:I love that idea, that connection formula idea. Thanks Adam.
Speaker 2:How do we better connect? How do we better connect with our families and our spouse? Adam, you know, do you have a favorite story of an individual client, maybe, who deepened their connection at home because of their own individual efforts, maybe?
Speaker 3:Unequivocally. I believe that, whether it's family or spouse, our 35 to 100,000 year old brains are wired to go on a quest. When we were cave people, we went on quests, whether it was for food or foraging, whatever it was, and our brains haven't changed pretty much at all in 35,000, some even estimate 100,000 years. So we want to do what our surroundings have, but we can go on quests today. So what would be a good quest? A good quest might be being a tourist in your own area. I'm betting that there are touristic places. Is that a word? Touristic? Whatever, I think it is that there are places of tourism not far away and you could probably get a Salt Lake City or a Utah travel guide and find cool places to go and act like a tourist in your own area. I took my. There was a father's day. I took my family. My wife's lived in San Francisco well over a decade. I lived San Francisco adjacent for at least as long and I was there all the time and we both know the city inside out. For a father's day, I took my family on a gray line tour of san francisco. So here we are, basically like, where are you from? You know, just down the street. Um, uh, we're with people from omaha and germany and texas and they're just like going crazy over this great city and my wife and I learned more about our city on that Grayline tour through the eyes of tourists. And if there is, you know, if there's something called Atlas Obscura? It's a website that has all these weird, weird local stuff things that you can do Like you know so-and-so had. You know, saw ghosts over here and you just go there with your family ghosts over here and you just go there with your family, or another one that I really love, and it can be done in dyads, like a father and son or a daughter and mom, or however you want to do it, or all four of you go on a quest for four weeks trying to find the best, I'm just going to say random food burger could be burger, it could be ramen, could be donut, whatever you want to do and for four weeks in a row, you come up with like a rubric, you come up with like a grading system for the burger place let's go with. You know what's the ambience like, what is the quality of the meat, how's the bun, how's the French fries, how's the quality of the waitstaff and everybody rates them.
Speaker 3:This is another very simple quest, not expensive, but the trans, the conversations that transpire when you're having fun today together. I don't remember which ancient Greeks said it, I mean it would have been Plato or Socrates, uh, could have been Aristotle, who said that they'll know more from an hour of playing with someone than they'll know for my year of talking. And so when we're playing together, we're on a quest, we're experiencing something novel. There's also something very interesting too when we do something novel, we see the people who we know really well through new eyes. Um, and there are even some studies that suggest that when couples do that, the, the, we can find each other a little more attractive. I remember asking Pat Love, who's the author of Hot Monogamy, for her one tip. She said do something novel together. And I would say that goes beyond just the couple. It would be for the family and and the individual right.
Speaker 3:Oh for sure. And the individual. And I mean mean hitting something new and finding new oceans within ourselves. I remember when I was 10 years old my dad is I, I mentioned he's opera man and he didn't like. He didn't like baseball, he didn't like live sports. He thought it was that was stupid, a waste of time. 10 years old, I take him to his I'm not making this up 10 years old, I take him to his first baseball game and it took him nine innings to fall madly in love with baseball and he's a rabid Giants fan and he never would have thought that would have happened. Then I have my own children. They're super into basketball. I was baseball football all day and then we start watching the Golden State Warriors together and there's nothing I would rather do with my two boys and go to chase and watch some golden state warriors live. It's the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Um, adam, what about friends? Right? Sometimes have a more difficult time. You gave a TEDx, uh, talking on the on this topic, give us some. I mean, what are the main principles right To share with us about maintaining friendships, those connections?
Speaker 3:For sure. So let's imagine somebody who was born in Ohio, went to college on the East Coast, got their first job in Texas and then moved to the Bay Area. This happens all the time in my office and each of those places they had friends and they swore they'd stay in touch. You know, when they were leaving, like I'm definitely staying in touch with you, and they stay in touch for the first month or so and then things begin to dwindle and we need friends. As I mentioned, loneliness is a horrible thing and, as Esther Perel reminds us, she's one of the great couple therapists. She said we used to live in villages where we had tons of people for tons of different things. We had a, you know, a hiking buddy, a drinking buddy, a building buddy, a fishing buddy, you know a knitting buddy, a whatever buddy, and now we expect our spouse to play all of the roles of all the buddies and the whole village is basically on the spouse's shoulders. If I was to try to take my wife to a Golden State Warriors game, she would not be stoked. I can't expect her to join me for that. That's not her thing and for sure. Like going to hardly strictly bluegrass in Golden Gate Park, not my thing. She loves it. So one of the things that happens when we are kind of forced, kind of that kind of square peg in a round hole, we end up doing the thing to be a good spouse, Except for the fact that we end up consenting and resenting and we don't have a good time. It's like damn, this is what I did for my Sunday. That was not awesome. But friends, friends are like superheroes. They all have different roles. Uh, but friends, friends are like superheroes. They all have different roles. Some of our friends, you know, help us problem solve or geek out with us to technology. Some of our friends we can talk about real relationship stuff. Some of our friends are the guys we go see sports with or play cards with, and some friends have multiple roles, Um, but I like at least appreciating them as superheroes, with kind of a letter emblazoned on their chest like this is the person who I do this with and I don't expect my sports buddy to be like my psych buddy, Like he's not the guy I necessarily go for, the touchy, feely stuff. Maybe he is, Maybe he's twofer, but oftentimes they're not and I don't discount the friendship. I appreciate what role each of them plays. So I'm really a big fan of friendship. I think that marriages do much better when each member of the couple has friends.
Speaker 3:Paul Rudd was in a movie called I Love you man, where he's marrying Rashida Jones and he has no friends, no best men. She's got like six bridesmaids he's got nothing. Bridesmaids he's got nothing. And he suddenly realizes oh my God, I gotta get with some friends. And it's one of my favorite movies of all time.
Speaker 3:There's something so beautiful about when men are willing to just go there and get a little more vulnerable, maybe talk a little bit more than just about sports, tech and politics, which are very easy topics. Sports, tech and politics Sure, those are fine to talk about for a minute. But what about what's really going on in our lives? Can we go there? And obviously that's a slow progression. You just kind of bid up and see if the relationship can handle it. Bid up and see if the relationship can handle it. But I am a real advocate of men being able to rely on men as as as bros and buds, and certainly for women to do the same. So I think that marriages will be profoundly improved.
Speaker 3:Last thought on this I remember when I met my wife. She was my nearly girlfriend. She was the person I was dating. But when I met her friends and I realized they were high quality people, she had described them perfectly and I also knew that these people would be the people she would go to when she needed advice about us Interesting. And I knew those were smart, kind, heartful people. And the next day I asked her to go steady. I was like I know it sounds dorky for like a 30-year-old I was 34 at the time but I was like I really want us to be exclusive and it was not long after, but seeing her friends mattered to me.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. That's so wise, so wise of you. Oh, thanks, right, really. So that's such a great point, I think, for any of us, those who are dating and great, and mate is what a great thing. We talk about meeting their family, but also about those that they choose to spend time with. What about the circle of friends?
Speaker 1:We'll be right back after this brief message. And we're back, let's dive right in and what about work?
Speaker 2:adam, the average person you say will spend what? 90 000 of their lives at work. Wow, I was connection work. How can they really go hand in hand, my friend?
Speaker 3:so there are a few ways. First of all, some people may not feel connected to work. Some people have the luxury of being able to step out and try something else, and if they want to do that, you know, one of the things I recommend doing is get as much information as possible. Find out what your values are. Find out today's former idea of snowboarding. You talked about flow. Flow is that beautiful, delicious, immersive space where eight hours of doing a thing feels like three and you're like what, where did the time go? Um, we can experience that at work. Now. Some of us don't have the opportunity to change the job, so, regardless, what I would ask people to do is to ask themselves what vocational muscle do they want to improve while they are at work, and it's probably from something you value. Maybe it's analytical skills, maybe it's interpersonal skills, maybe it's team building skills, maybe it's managerial skills. Maybe you're not at the ideal job, but maybe you can find something you can geek out to and get better at, while doing your job and doing well for the company and also improving yourself at the same time and losing yourself to that flow. There are certain ways of doing this. There's a, an online free inventory called the values in action via characterorg yeah, I love that one and they show 24 validated strengths.
Speaker 3:I remember when I was relegated to bank teller I was 24 years old, I'd just come back from Japan. I was super bummed about being a bank teller because people treated me like what I called a meat based ATM. They're like give me a hundred dollars for this check and deposit this, and they would hardly even look at me and I was like, hey, there's a person here. Um, at the time I was reading man's search for meaning by Victor Frankel, that great book and I was thinking like, how do I make this meaningful? And I was like this was before the VIA existed. And I was like, huh, I see 120 people a day. I want to be a psychologist. I want to be able to be able to talk to as many different types of people as possible. This could be like my gym like, where I see 120 people.
Speaker 3:I make 119 of them smile, if not laugh, and balance at the end of the day. I'm seeing you know soccer moms. I'm seeing lawyers. I'm seeing construction workers, people fresh off the boat from another country, people with varying degrees of of, of of riches, all the way to people who are very, very much what we would consider financially. Or can I make 119 of them smile, if not laugh? And the answer was yes, I could.
Speaker 3:And it became one of the most important jobs I've ever had because it became my training ground. I did well by the company, but I also did well by me, and my eight hour shifts began to feel like two hour shifts, like they went by quick, because I was experiencing that flow, that immersiveness, that challenge and meaning. And so we can all do that at our jobs. Even if we don't love our jobs and can't leave our jobs, we can probably find an element, find something, something, and one of the other ways I could describe it is take your dot-com job and see it as a dot-edu job. Yes, you're making money for the company, but you're also learning job.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're making money for the company but you're also learning Good.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's great, adam. Before we let you go, we like to ask all of our guests a couple of questions when they come on our show. And the first question, in honor of the name of our podcast Stronger Marriage Connection is what do you believe is the key? Is there a key or keys to a stronger marriage connection?
Speaker 3:There are a lot of people, when they're dating I'm just going to be really, really crass and up front tend to go from the bottom up. They tend to when we think about our, our organs that are involved in the dating process. Oftentimes they start south and move northward in the dating process. Oftentimes they start South and move Northward. Um, I, I'm thinking of, uh, of course, uh, the things the procreation tools below, uh, heart and then head.
Speaker 3:I'm a big fan of starting with the head. Does this make sense? Are we actually a good match, using the brain as an assessment tool to predict? Do we fight well? Are we on the same team? How quickly do we recoup after a bit of a, of a, of a of things going sideways? Um, are our values aligned, our hopes aligned? Do we want to have?
Speaker 3:Do we have similar philosophies of raising children? Do we, do we both, want children? How many children do we want to run our own? Where do we want to live? How supportive are we when things go well and when things go very badly? So, start with the head is my prime, and then go down to the heart and then, of course, the procreation tool, and then the stomach is always there. The stomach is always monitoring, asking huh, how's this feeling in my gut? But I think if we can go with that sequence head down and all have to have a green light, we want green lights from all of the organs, but if we could start with a head, I think that would make a lot of great sense. And that was what I finally did before I met my wife and 22 years in, we are a very loving, efficient system as well. So the word efficient may sound unsexy, but oh, I get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, isn't that a great word?
Speaker 1:Yeah but no, I like I get it yeah isn't that a great word?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I think we all get that. It's a lot of wasted time to to argue and bicker and fight, right, it's not efficient. Yeah, right, is it part of that? Is that what you're part of that's?
Speaker 3:exactly what I'm talking about I get it and do we?
Speaker 3:do we also agree? Do we? I mean some, some couples never get anything passed through congress because they're still trying to figure out where their kid are going to go to school, because one of them wants public school, One of them wants private school. My wife and I have been very efficient, whether it's been choosing pets, choosing, choosing schools, choosing which house to live, in choosing how we allocate our money. Money allocation, I mean if, if my office was a family feud game. Our top question is, you know, love and sex, then comes money and then comes the children. There are so many. If we can agree on the bigs and it doesn't take long for us to come to consensus, that's efficient.
Speaker 2:Nicely done. Yeah, when can we all find out more about you, Adam, your practice and your book? Super psyched, and we'll be sure to link those to our show notes. Where do we go, my friend?
Speaker 3:I'm so honored. First of all, the book is available at Amazon and Barnes and Noble. I'm available for keynotes and for all types of work. I do a lot of corporate work work. I do a lot of corporate work, dr Adam Dorseycom D-R-A-D-A-M-D-O-R-S-A-Y For those in California. I am licensed in the state of California to provide psychotherapy here. Let's see my TEDx talks. I've got two of them available on YouTube one on men and emotions, the other on friendship and adulthood. My podcast, which was recently a Sharecare award-winning podcast it's hitting its 250th episode tomorrow timestamp and so it's been really fun. I've had people like Steve Kerr on from the Golden State Warriors and Temple Grandin and Phil Zimbardo may his memory be a blessing Very interesting folks, so it's been a really fun time to have Super Psych, the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the same name, super Psych.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good for you, yeah same name, decided to keep the branding consistent, and I think those are the places where they find me.
Speaker 1:Love it, adam, excuse me, and we'll again. Like Liz said, we'll put all those in our show notes for our listeners so you can go there and find out more about Adam and all he offers. Adam, hey, before we let you go, what's your takeaway of the day? We call it a take-home message that you hope our listeners will remember from today.
Speaker 3:Well, one of the takeaways is I've just been watching you and Liz and the two of you are a very efficient system. The two of you work well. I know that you're not romantic partners, you're friends, but I think I remember when I was studying group therapy in my master's program, dr Jerry Shapiro said choose your co-leader wisely the way you would choose a spouse. They're not your spouse, but choose them with the same kinds of intelligence. And I think my takeaway is listen, listeners. Listen to how Dave and Liz share, listen to how the two of them coordinate, have each other's back, almost like it's a buddy cop film. This is the two of you are exemplars of what a good relationship means, to borrow from Stan Tatkin, how the two of you are in each other's care. So I felt really good being on your podcast because the two of you are such a strong duo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is very kind. Yeah, and I think we do Right, liz. We get along great, liz. What about you? What's your takeaway of the day?
Speaker 2:It is really an honor doing this and having you, adam, join us, and Dave, it's just been a thrill. You know I love these four different ways of connection, and self especially. We like to say here around Stronger, merge, connect, marriage connection. Out of that, a strong. We is made up of two strong and healthy me's and I just don't think that we can emphasize that enough. I see in couples so easy it's, it's um, we get wrapped up in pointing the finger to the other person where, very much so, you know, I could ruin a perfectly good day all by myself, just me, myself and I, with no buy-in from my husband and I could also send this lovely evening on into the next new morning.
Speaker 2:Just me, myself and I, without any buy-in from Ben. We're just. We're that powerful as partners, so I really love that. It starts with self.
Speaker 3:Totally, yeah. Yes, it's interesting. Before the whole Rainy Moffitt thing, I was just kind of I don't think I had a great night's sleep and I just wasn't at my best and my wife had the kindness to just kind of reflect back to me like, dude, you're talking in a way that's not hitting, and we had that coordination and I trusted her enough to say, oh my God, I get it her enough to say oh my God, I get it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, let me go get a workout and let me come back to you Um, and that's what I did Um, and I was, I was, I was better for it.
Speaker 3:but suffice it to say, yeah, like we can. We have to give ourselves grace and in each other grace, and engage with that thing that they call self-compassion which we didn't even get into, but it's such an important topic and to give others compassion. Two great me's create a great we, and one of the things is yeah, it's the buddy cop film. Like, we trust each other enough so that if the other person says you're a little off today, you know it's like you're.
Speaker 2:But I've got you right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it doesn't define you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to know what your gold nugget is going to stay with you after our visit today with Dr Adam Dorsey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this, sincerely, has been one of my favorite episodes. I love this topic. I love what I just can actually connect with with everything that you're you're talking about. Maybe it's the I love the four areas as well. To me, it maybe is the distractions. Right, there's so much that people are more important than problems. Right?
Speaker 1:I've been preaching that to my kids and audiences it's people. It's people that really matter when all is said and done. It's relationships, it's these connections, and so, whatever distractions our listeners may have, take a pause and say, okay, what really matters there's so many things competing for our time, for our attention and distractions, and it could be our own moods, you know. Take a pause and say, okay, yeah, it's really. Connections is really one of our core needs and, in my mind, one of the things that matters most. I know my connections and relationships matter more than almost anything else. Right, in this, in this world, it's these, these connections. So thank you so much for the, for the wonderful information and the reminders, these little principles and practices that we can all do to to have better connections. Oh, thanks, dave.
Speaker 3:So much fun to be with you.
Speaker 1:All right, friends, that does it for us. We will see you again on another episode of Stronger Marriage Connection.
Speaker 2:And remember it's the small and simple things that create a stronger marriage connection. Take good care now.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at Stronger Marriage Life and Facebook at Stronger Marriage, so be sure to share with us which topics you loved or which guests we should have on the show. Next, if you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit StrongerMarriageorg, where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah marriage commission at Utah state university. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, rex Polanis, and the team at Utah state university and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah marriage commission.