Stronger Marriage Connection
It's often said that marriage takes work. The Stronger Marriage Connection podcast wants to help because a happy marriage is worth the effort. USU Family Life Professor Dr. Dave Schramm and Clinical Psychologist Dr. Liz Hale talk with experts about the principles and practices that will enhance your commitment, compassion, and emotional connection.
More than ever before, marriages face obstacles, from the busyness of work and daily hassles to disagreements and digital distractions. It's no wonder couples sometimes drift apart, growing resentful, lonely, and isolated.
The Utah Marriage Commission invites you to listen and discover new ways to strengthen and protect your marriage connection today!
Stronger Marriage Connection
Your Baby Deserves Parents Who Love Each Other | Julie Blackburn | #134
Julie Blackburn shares her expertise on helping couples maintain strong relationships during the challenging transition to parenthood, drawing on her experience as a registered nurse, midwife, and Bringing Baby Home educator.
• 67% of couples become unhappy with each other during the first three years of their baby's life
• The greatest gift you can give your baby is a happy and strong relationship between parents
• Parenting differences stem from our upbringing and personal experiences
• The "secret sauce" for healthy relationships includes maintaining friendship, regulating conflict, and creating shared meaning
• Criticism can cause partners (especially dads) to withdraw from parenting involvement
• When dad is unhappy in his relationship with mom, a gulf often grows between him and his child
• Father involvement is crucial for child development, affecting temperament, self-regulation, confidence, and academic performance
• Military families face unique challenges requiring extra intentionality in maintaining connection
• The Gottman card deck app offers structured ways to maintain meaningful conversations and express needs without criticism
• Keeping an emotional "bank account" full through expressions of fondness and admiration sustains relationships through challenges
The key to a stronger marriage connection is friendship and kindness. Remember to remain each other's best friend, hold space for each other, and keep telling your partner how much you appreciate them.
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On today's episode. Dr Liz and I welcome to the show Julie Blackburn from all the way down under in Australia. Having a baby can create stress individually and struggles as a couple. Julie shares practical tips and strategies, from keeping the friendship strong through patience, gratitude and kindness, to avoiding criticism and letting dads be involved as equal partners. Julie Blackburn is a registered nurse, midwife, educator and company director. Julie is passionate about work that supports couples achieve healthy relationships and healthy family environments. Driven by a goal to ensure that children are raised in safe and healthy homes to support the prevention of family violence, she was among the first bringing baby home educators, trained in Australia in 2008 and became a BBH specialist trainer in 2012, supporting the training of others in Australia and the Asia-Pacific region since then. When not working, she can be found hanging with her three adult children and her partner planning the next road trip. Julie aims to be relatable, authentic and kind, and values connecting with people from all walks of life. We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. I'm psychologist, Dr Liz Hale, along with the beloved professor Dr Dave Schramm. Together, we have dedicated our life's work to bringing you the best we have in valid marital research, with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. All right, it's a brand new beginning when partners become parents. For most couples, it really is a time of hope, anticipation and excitement. And, Dave, your family's a time of hope, anticipation and excitement. And, Dave, your family's getting ready to welcome a beautiful, brand new grandbaby this summer. Well, according to Dr John Gottman's long-term study on newlyweds, 67% of couples become very unhappy with each other. During the first three years of their baby's life, Only 33% remained content. That's really quite a large number, isn't it? That is and the biggest concern is that that has a huge impact on baby's emotional development. While the masters of this transition to parenthood, they navigated the stressor. Somehow they found ways to deal with the normal challenges of new parenthood. While the unhappy disaster couples which is the majority of all of us they could not find their way. They stayed overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:Our guest today, who, in addition to specializing in nursing and midwifery, has advanced training in helping partners thrive through pregnancy and childbirth, bringing 30 years of her combined experience to our conversation today. Jilly Blackburn, you are just the professional we need to talk to. Welcome to Struggler Marriage Connection, Thank you. I was struck by an interview Dr John Gottman gave about this very topic and I know you're well aware of it. He said that if we can change the behaviors of these new unhappy parents, we can change their babies, their temperament, neurological development and language and cognition to the point where these babies are laughing and smiling more and crying and fussing less. What a specialty you have as a trainer for the program Bringing Baby Home, Julie. Share with us your passion for this program and why you think an evidence-based program like this is important for all new parents.
Speaker 3:Oh, thanks, liz. Look, it's great to be here. I love BBH. You know, pregnancy it changes us. It changes our roles, our dreams, our goals. With individuals, we change as humans and we end up having all these new titles and responsibilities. Yet how does any of us know how to be a partner? You know, we're all gifted amateurs, really. We come in equipped to this parenting gig with knowledge and experience based on our own childhood, really, or what we see and read, and and what is happening around us, and and then we try to apply this experience with another human who has the same experience as us, which is not much so. So it's great to be able to then have a program that, um, it's not just about the birth and the belly and the boobs, you know, I don't know if you can say that.
Speaker 2:Sorry, that's great. That is funny Triple mini. I love it so.
Speaker 3:I'll rewind that. Yeah, I love it. So regular antenatal classes, pre-birth classes they often get criticized about you know whether they really do anything. You know they give us that connection to other people. But what else do we get beyond what we already see and can read on the internet? So bringing baby home gives us this opportunity where we can really understand what's going to happen when this baby comes home. So I love it.
Speaker 3:I love it that it includes both people, so both mum and dad is included in this program equally, and we really get to understand the importance of both roles of mum and dad. You know you get opportunity to reflect on your own stuff how you were parented, what it means to be a parent and how do you create this home environment for this little human that you're going to be raising. So I just love it. And it's got a science backing to it as well. So, as a healthcare professional, having an evidence base to anything that I do is really important. So it's great to know that you can give people some real tools that they can put into a place and apply in their home environment. They can connect with the baby, they can stay connected with each other and they can use more broadly as well and make some really satisfying relationships.
Speaker 2:It shows that you love it, julie. I mean, and you make such a good point, we don't know how to be partners, let alone parents. Right, talk about an overwhelm.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right, that's right. So you know in this happy baby that we're trying to seek if we can create that happy home space to raise that baby in. Well, you know there's healthy children and then healthy societies are going to be more prevalent. In where you know there's healthy children and then healthy societies are going to be more prevalent.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, for sure I love the research base. As a family scholar here at USU, I love looking and knowing that for the research based that backed information that's so important. I know as new parents many years ago I sure wish that there was this type of information, because it is. It can be stressful and overwhelming, and the lack of sleep and I was in graduate school, my wife. It was a really tough time and I know, according to Dr Gottman, that first year following a baby's arrival, I mean the frequency, the intensity of the relationship conflicts increased significantly for most couples. As with any life transition, right changes, they're inevitable and it's natural to disagree with your partner on issues around parenting and finances, and there's all the household chores and marital expectations. But as overwhelming as this sounds, you're here to reassure us that it's possible to reach solutions that everyone can be happy with. Is that right, Julie? In fact, let's start with differences in parenting styles. That seems to be an especially growing concern in marriage. What's your advice on how different partners view parenting?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Well, you know this is the challenge that we have becoming parents because we have all of these ideas and views that you know. This is the challenge that we have becoming parents because we have all of these ideas and views that you know we haven't really discussed as a couple. You know that it doesn't enter the sentences that we have and the conversations that we have with each other. So we all have our own way of doing things, based on how we were raised, what we've experienced, what we see, what we know, what we aspire to be.
Speaker 3:You know, whether good, bad or ugly, the way we're raised sits right within us and comes out without us realizing if we don't have that conscious awareness about what it is that really motivates us and what our stuff is.
Speaker 3:So you know the secret sauce to a healthy relationship we need three ingredients and we need to really think about how we can maintain our friendship, how we regulate our conflict and how we create these environments and opportunities for shared meaning and how we can have regular connections and rituals and sharing of values. So the ability to accept the influence of our partner, that our partner will have different ideas to us, is really important with this parenting environment and knowing our partner and knowing what they want as well as what you want. And where do we get that sweet spot in the middle? So the Gottmans will say we need to yield to win. So sometimes we've got to give up our stuff to get a really good outcome and get that environment or that happiness that we're reaching for. So, putting all the tools and having a bit of a structured environment to work out how to do things and how to connect so we have a cooperative parenting environment rather than a competitive one, and that's going to be the important ingredient in this space.
Speaker 2:Do you find that clearly right? Partners think that they may want to do it the way their parents did it, or drastically different from their parents. I just think about the stark differences of a man and a woman, let alone a mother and a father. Right, we offer different, bring different traits, talents, abilities to the table.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure. Like there's so much pressure that we have when we become a parent, like it's not just as a woman, it's the physiological changes that occur with parenting. But having a baby has this philosophical shift. The way we view the world starts to change and all of those challenges of this transition to parenting space that is compounded by sleeplessness, the role changes that we have, the involvement of extended family or the lack of involvement, you know, either can be good or bad. We change our jobs and our responsibilities. We have the added worries of finances and employment, body image changes. There's so much stuff in this space and, like I said, this default setting is the way our mom did it or the way our dad did it.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, right, and so, just speaking, continuing with those differences. Once the baby arrives, it seems like mom's family and friends especially flock to the scene to help. Is that right, julie? But according to the research, new dads can often feel excluded. And you might even start to withdraw from the baby and the mom. Maybe they're working more or you know. Just try to avoid conflict. What instruction in this arena do you give your soon-to-be parents?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, thanks, please. Yeah, this is a problem. You know we have this great culture that women really support women having babies and and kind of. You know, really make sure that we nurture her well. But this can be the very thing that alienates men, and men who don't feel like they're involved or have a role with this baby will naturally retreat back. You know, women can often behave like the gatekeeper of the baby. You know, like I'm pregnant, I know what's best for this baby and we can really push dads away. I know what's best for this baby and we can really push dads away, which is not helpful or healthy to our relationship or the relationship that the baby will have with their father as well. So you know we need to check in on the dads. We need to, and this is what we do when the baby comes. You know mums are often at home with the babies, you know, in those early days and they can be all alone with the baby. And then when dads come home, you know we check on them. We make sure they're doing it right, you know doing it properly. Are they changing the nappy or the diaper properly? Are they wrapping the baby properly? Are they bathing the baby.
Speaker 3:You know, like everything's watched and critiqued and who wants to be criticized all the time. You know I remember my Navy husband criticized the way I owned his uniform when we first got married. So what happened? I never, ever, owned his uniform again. You know that was something I was not going to learn. So you know we need to let the dads do things as well. You know they're not going to harm the baby. They just might do it different. So, and that way dads will stay involved. You know we don't want to refer to them as babysitters. That way dads will stay involved. You know we don't want to refer to them as babysitters. You often hear dads saying they can't meet up with their friends because they're babysitting their kids.
Speaker 2:You know, like newsflash it's your own kid, or we will do that as women. Let me see if my husband can babysit, right, I mean, which is an area of opportunity for all of us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, no, it's your own kid. It's called parenting. We're both, that's right. And if we want to feel like a parent, then we really need to be involved in the decisions of that child. So you know, and there's no evidence out there that says moms can do this stuff better than dads. So you know, the only thing the mom can do is dad can't do is breastfeed and give birth. So, we do need dads to be involved. There's plenty of research why that's important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, amen. I love this. I love the wisdom here, julie, for dads and involvement. I know, at least here in the US, that I've seen personally more dads getting paternity leave and that there's more there supporting the dads. And, yes, I love the less criticism, you know. Counsel to the mothers or the wives it's interesting from the research, julie, that when mom is unhappy, her baby doesn't retreat. Julie, that when mom is unhappy her baby doesn't retreat, but when dad is unhappy, especially in his relationship with mom, a tragic gulf grows between him and his child. So what's the advice you give couples to protect themselves from this tragedy?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting that phenomena, isn't it? You know, I think prevention is always better than a cure. You know we don't want these babies to miss out on their dads. As I said earlier, there's no evidence to suggest that a mum can parent better than a dad. But there's plenty of research that shows us that the role dads play in growth and development, and particularly the engagement that they have with the baby through play, is vital to healthy development.
Speaker 3:You know positive involvement of the dad is going to have an impact on the child's temperament, self-regulation, self-esteem, confidence. You know we want these confident, happy children. But they get this from the environment that they're raised in. You know some of it's personality, but we also shape their personality in those early years of life. So children with involved fathers, they have better, more friends when they go to school. They do better at school academically. Their future relationships and and behaviors are there.
Speaker 3:So we need to prevent that chasm and the distance occurring, because someone who is feeling criticized will retreat. We see that relationship dissatisfaction means people withdraw from each other and they're not looking for that connection. Action means people withdraw from each other and they're not looking for that connection, so they're moving away, so babies miss out as well. Now, you know this space is hard. Someone's got to work. Hey, you know we're still needing to pay for the bills and the mortgage and the rent. But you know we need to make sure we've got those healthy moments of connection when we're around and that involvement can be there as well.
Speaker 2:I imagine that partners can do enough to complement each other on their parenting right. I mean, I can only imagine that it feels there's got to be a sense of insecurity. As a woman, I'm thinking. I imagine I have not had children, julie, what I imagine. You probably have this belief that I should know how to do this right. This baby earned my belly. If that's how this baby came, or through adoption, we feel like I'm just I'm the maternal one here. I should know how to do this and talk about a lot of pressure. So I would imagine partners really need that great um, what um support from their other that's right.
Speaker 3:Like you know, as a partner in this space, like we need to be the coach, we need to be the cheerleader, we need to be the teammate. You know we've got to flick through all three of those roles because you know, like how, do you know how to be a parent? You just hope you're doing it right. You know, gifted, amateur, am I doing this right? I have three children. Now that you know, I feel like I might have done okay. They look like you know, really nice humans, but there was a while there where I wasn't sure if that was going to happen.
Speaker 2:Understandable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's tough. So we need to just really stand by each other and you know, so we need to just really stand by each other and, you know, keep encouragement. Hey, you're doing good here. I really like how you can stay calm. I love how you can keep going to work even though you're really tired. I love how you can hold it together when the baby's crying all the time. You know we really need to applaud that stuff. We can focus on the baby and go, yay, the baby clapped today, the baby rolled over, you know, and these are really cool achievements. But you know, what's really cool is turning up all the time and holding your stuff and not being angry, and staying calm and happy and positive.
Speaker 1:We'll be right back after this brief message. And we're back, let's dive right in.
Speaker 2:The power of a partner. I mean, I have been a marriage therapist for a long time now and I'm still amazed at the power that we have, for better or for worse, as partners. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Julie and Dave, I think this is the first time we've spotlighted Drs John and Julie Gottman's book and Baby Makes Three. We love it, we support it, but I think it's the first time we're talking about it. So thank you for that, julie. They continue to acknowledge that the greatest gift you can give your baby, of course, is a happy and strong relationship between the two of you. What are some of your favorite tips for these new parents? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I love that quote. I just use it all the time in my work and that's whether I'm working with new parents or whether I'm working with, you know, my students advocating for supports for military, because you know, the greatest gift we can have is just that healthy environment. We know that when we're around anyone who is just nitpicking each other and cranky at each other, we're always going to feel uncomfortable. I also like to remind people that that relationship between parent to parent and the parent to child is really important to understand.
Speaker 3:What happens to the child will impact the parents individually and collectively, will impact the parents individually and collectively. Even more significant is whatever happens to parents will have a lasting impact on a child. You know these are things that we don't go over and we don't get over. We can always think about an event that may have occurred to our parents kind of lives within us all the time. So, to paraphrase John Gottman, he also says just as a tree is affected by the quality of the air and the water and the soil and the environment, the emotional health of the child is determined as well by the intimate relationships around them. So that emotional ecology that we create for our children is going to have a lasting impact on the child. So I think it's really important that we understand that interrelationship that we all have on each other and how that will have a lasting impact on all of our health and wellbeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that sure does that. Environment is so critical, Julie, as part of the free Gottman card deck app that we all have access, to tell us about the last section of cards under the heading bringing baby home. How do you suggest couples use this deck and what are your favorite topics or questions for couples to discuss?
Speaker 3:favorite topics or questions for couples to discuss. Yeah, these questions are similar to the other card decks, but it really gets specific to parenting. So it's easy to just race around in life and, before we know it, all we talk about is our day at work. So these cards give us an opportunity to just be really mindful about what we talk about and, as well as checking in with ourself and our partners um, you know, so it's a series of questions.
Speaker 3:Love maps is something that the Gottmans speak about all the time. So you know, do you remember what your partner's favorite guitar is? If I think about prior conversations, you know to to then have a good chat about why you like these things or music that you like, and maybe this can then lead into an opportunity for a date night. You know, remember when we went and saw that band? That was so cool. God, I love that. Let's try and find a babysitter and let's create an opportunity to go out again.
Speaker 3:So it's really important to keep having those moments and these cards can help us do that. It can also help us to express needs. We often think that our partner might know the need that we have. You know, he never takes me out anywhere, he never helps with cooking dinner I'm the one that always cooks dinner or he never does anything around the house. Yeah, we don't actually ask these in a really clear way. We often ask our or express our needs in a way that is quite critical. So you know, these cards can really help do that as well. So help raise something in a more gentle way that is going to the need will be heard rather than the criticism. So I really like that. The baby can take all of our focus away. It just allows us to focus on each other and ourselves and remind ourselves why we're together and why we like each other yeah, ah, great, great resource yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:One of the questions I came across recently. I was talking about this deck with a couple in my office and I love the, the one of. I think it might've been maybe from I don't know. It seemed like it was geared more to husbands. But what would you like to do for the baby's care? Right? Would you like to be involved in the feeding, the bathing, the tucking in or getting up in the middle of the night? Just thought it was great, automatically, just assuming we're in this together. And what role do you want to play? What would you love to do? What do you feel insecure doing? Right? What worries you? Anyway, I just think it's brilliant, julie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, those cards are really good, you know, and what are you needing right now? Or there's ones about, you know, feelings, so I feel lonely or I miss you, I would like to go out to dinner with you, so things like that. Because the way we raise things, we could say you never take me anywhere, when really what you're wanting is just to hang out and have dinner with your partner, with your husband.
Speaker 2:It comes across totally different.
Speaker 3:Right, you're apt to get what you want the the latter way. Oh yeah, that's right. So so it's props for that. And going back to what we spoke about with criticism before, you know, it's a good way to to then focus on things so we're not nitpicking our partner. You know, maybe we don't need to worry about whether the toilet seat was left up. You know we can use other issues that are going to be more important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, yep, awesome, julie. You also have some additional interest in family violence prevention, especially when it comes to managing conflict, self-regulation and feelings of overwhelm. What impact does family violence have on children? I mean, we can only imagine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, most babies will suffer when there is relationship conflict between parents, you know, and a healthy dose of conflict is necessary in all relationships, but it's how we raise an issue and how we debate a point, as opposed to what sometimes. So the Gottman studies also showed us that. You know, just in normal conflict, parental irritability, hostility, fighting leads to poor parent-child interaction which can create this unhealthy environment for the children. You know, blood pressures in babies are higher when they are around parents who are fighting. So if we think about the environment of having a new baby and all that extra stresses, conflict raises eight times and sadly, we see the incidence of violence occurring for the first time in pregnancy and relationships. And those feelings of flooding and overwhelm and losing self-control can often be a precursor to that as well.
Speaker 3:So I love this program because it gets you to think about what happens to you when you get flooded, what happens to you when you're angry, and really how to self-soothe and check in on yourself.
Speaker 3:We know that parents who are in a high-conflict environment are going to have higher risk factors for depression and poor health, and a parent who has depression or poor health is going to be less engaged and responsive to a baby as well. So all of these factors will flow on to the growth and development of the baby. You know, if you're not feeling happy about something, your facial expressions are kind of devoid of emotion, they're just flat. So the baby is not going to thrive with those happy faces, those mock surprises, faces that they really like to see as well. So you know. So I love this program that it just helps us stay that awareness of the impact of conflict and when conflict can lead to a domestic violence situation, prevention is the cure. We have such a big problem with family violence and I think having a program that makes us really pause and think about what is my role here and what environment do I want to raise and what can I do different to ensure health.
Speaker 1:Julie, you have another area of interest, both personally and professionally this experience with military families, which we have such high regard for. But, to be honest, we don't see the effects of military service that it has on families right, and specifically on children. Can you give us the inside scoop on these amazing families and how they can buffer the challenges that come from military lifestyle?
Speaker 3:yeah sure, um, you know, defense families, military families we have everyday people trying to maintain friendships, relationships, raise children in in a working environment that is just unique in job description and requirements. So it's a way of life regular moves, time spent away from home, as families are often living remote from extended families, the effects of deployment and all of these challenges, just kind of pound you know we'll have. One member will be away in the environment of weaponry or humanitarian aid. They're out in the middle of an ocean and they're coming home then and now need to be landing into pregnancy or child rearing, which is really distant from what they're normally doing. And it's also a challenge when everybody is away from each other as well.
Speaker 3:So maintaining connection when we're seeing each other every day someone's walking in the door, you're saying hi, these situations we really quickly lose sight of each other. We just started talking about the weather or we talk about work. So let's do this now when there's six months distance and we're just relying on email or social media to catch up with each other every now and again. So programs like BBH is really important for that. You know, we've got to maintain those friendships and really be skilled in what is it that creates a good friendship? How do we do this? Uh, and and then follow the bouncing ball, if you will, of what the masters do, who are really good at relationships.
Speaker 3:You know, we, we create love maps, we check in with each other, we keep positive bank accounts of emotions, we show fondness and admiration, we share what's worrying us. You know, these ingredients are important. So for military families, having these tools is so important because we, how do you share? You know, a day at home and your drama with the. You know the washing machine blew up. You know, and they're home, and your drama with the. You know the washing machine blew up. You know, and they're on the other side of the world. What are they going to do about it? But we need to still share these moments as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that it takes this extra intentionality right, this purposeful, okay, connection, and we have to be very intentional about keeping that connection uh strong, because you can naturally I would assume you can naturally, um, drift apart or just easily drift apart if you don't do anything, we just kind of drift apart. And so, with military families especially, it seems like there has to be this intentionality of creating and doing, uh keeping that connection strong. Is that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I was married to someone in the Navy and you know long periods apart and you know, particularly when children come, you really you have single parenting there as well. But you try to maintain and sustain this relationship with someone who is doing something completely different to what you're doing and really has no concept of what's happening at home, as much as I don't really have any concept of what's happening on a warship. So you know it's. How do you keep this all together and how do you keep children engaged with their parents, knowing that the role of a father is really important in development of children? So how do you get that nurturing softness that's needed and that active engagement with the family is really important as a couple and also for the family and the children as well?
Speaker 3:So to have some structure and have some tools in place to help support these families, because what we do know is military life will have a negative impact on children, like it can have a negative impact on everybody. But if the environment's not good, children from military families are going to be more affected than those that don't. And for all of those reasons high conflict environments, lack of engagement, lack of coordinated parenting we may have someone that's too authoritarian, someone that's too critical. So all of these toxic ingredients that can enter the family environment, that are harmful to raising children and health and well-being. So we need to think about that. What can we do different? How can we really support these environments and this necessary service that we need for national security, yet make sure we're raising healthy generations of military families as well?
Speaker 2:Is the military providing that structure? Seems like I hear about programs now and then, julie, are we doing a pretty?
Speaker 3:good job for our families or is more needed? Yeah well, I'm not sure about the US. I did visit there a few years ago and I popped into some of the military bases and there you know there's a lot of problems there, but you know such a massive problem that I think you have as well. There's a lot of military and such diverse socioeconomic and demographics. So partner employment's another thing too.
Speaker 3:You know we really a challenge of having a baby is that loss of identity that we have. So you know, as a new mum, changing a job, or that loss of a job that you really love and you're now at home, you know it might not fit for you and it's hard to get that value, and we can complicate this as well, depending on what our partner employment choice is, and we can lose sight of our own career goals and career directions, and so these things are also important. That's your third ingredient of those rituals and shared goals that we need to have when a baby comes, because otherwise we can end up as a mom feeling quite lost. And you know I've given up all this time from work while partners kicked all their goals and, you know, got to the top of their career. What am I doing now so we want to avoid those situations which can create bitterness and resentment in a home?
Speaker 1:Wow, it's been powerful, Julie. Hey, before we let you go, we have a couple of questions we like to ask all of our listeners in honor of the name of our podcast Stronger Marriage Connection. From your personal and professional experience, what would you say is a key to a stronger marriage connection?
Speaker 3:I think the key is always friendship and kindness. That's going to be the foundation. We need to remain each other's best friend. We need to hold space for each other. We need to splash that fondness and admiration around. We've got to keep the emotional bank account full and that's going to help us sustain through a positive perspective and any sort of negative challenges that come up. We don't want to be robbing the bank, so keep telling our partner how handsome they are and how fabulous they are and how grateful we are that we have them.
Speaker 1:Love that answer. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:I'm here too, boy, and I'm just struck by saying, yeah and boy, how easy that is to let that go by the wayside. I'm such a fan of it. It's like when did I tell Ben I thought he was so handsome Might have been yesterday, I thought it was yesterday at church Ben you're hot.
Speaker 1:Liz thinks you're hot, ben yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't do that nearly often enough, so I love that. Okay, julie, wonderful. Well, where can our listeners go to find out more about you and the resources you provide and the course that you offer? We want to know everything.
Speaker 3:Do you know? Look, sadly my website's offline at the moment, but I want listeners to know about the gotman institute there and and, uh, you know they're bringing baby home. Programs are available. Um, there's also, uh, joni pathema, so she's there. She's got contact details so I can be found through joni, which will be on the god, okay we'll add joni's name again.
Speaker 2:She's already on our resource list.
Speaker 1:We'll add that to our show. Or.
Speaker 2:Facebook, yes, facebook.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I'm told that's where all people hang out. I keep telling you that, but hey, I'm so last century, so you'll find me on Facebook.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. We'll add that to the show notes, Julie. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah and Julie. One more question for you. We call it our takeaway of the day here on the show. Is there a message that you want our listeners to remember from our discussion today?
Speaker 3:Yeah, healthy relationships, whether they're intimate, whether they're platonic, whether they're work-related, they don't just happen, so they come from a series of consistent, uh efforts and actions that we put in place. So we're all gifted amateurs when it comes to this parenting gig and you know we, we really need to just work together on that. So number one take home is just always be kind, be kind to yourself and be kind to each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Love that. Thanks, Julie Liz. What about you? What's your takeaway today?
Speaker 2:I loved it when Julie said about that yield, yield to win. I think that's just so beautiful. I think about peacekeeping. We have a colleague who talks quite a bit about peacekeeping. He's now at Utah State Julie Chadford, and I've been reading a lot of his work lately, sits on the top of my head. He tells a story about a professor giving him feedback on this conflict and he said Chad, I don't know that I could really give you much feedback, but what I can say is I learned in my life that I can either be right or I can have peace. And I think that's exactly what you're saying, julie. Dave, what about the gold nugget you're taking away from our time together with family health, parenting expert and trainer, julie Blackburn?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this has been so helpful, julie. I've had a daughter that was just married. I've got a daughter who's having a baby, so this is very at the forefront of my mind. I love everything you've talked about. I especially love what stood out to me.
Speaker 1:It was the counsel related to criticism for wives, husbands and it can be often unintentional oh the baby's fussy, let me take the baby, or that's not how you hold it, or be sure to do this, it's almost mothering the husband, which is not helpful. So there can be loud criticism, there can be almost silent criticism or an eye roll or things like that. So I, my message, I think for for women, especially new mothers, is yeah, let your husband be a father, let him be involved, let him do. Yes, well, it was dirty work again, having the conversations of dirty diapers and changing or getting up or feeding or whatever it is. But yeah, the criticism can really make him pull back and just almost feel like third wheel while you or your mom kind of consists or kind of take charge, and he may feel kind of this feeling left out. So so be sure to keep that connection again, that intentionality, that kindness, that friendship, those date nights, all those things strong, so he doesn't feel like he's, he's third wheel, yeah, when baby comes along.
Speaker 3:So yeah, that's so true, you nailed it, dave.
Speaker 1:Julie, this has been so very helpful. My friend, thanks for joining us from down under, from Australia. This has been so very helpful. So thank you.
Speaker 3:My pleasure. It's been great chatting with you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:All right, friends. Well, that does it for us. We will see you next time on another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection podcast.
Speaker 2:That's right, and remember it's the small and simple things that create a stronger marriage connection. Take great care now.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show on Instagram at Stronger Marriage Life and Facebook at Stronger Marriage. So be sure to share with us which topics you loved or which guests we should have on the show next. If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit StrongerMarriageorg, where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.