Stronger Marriage Connection

Dating with Purpose: From Single to Successful Couple | Stacy Hubbard | #143

• Utah Marriage Comission • Season 4 • Episode 143

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Dating requires intention and skill, whether you're looking for fun or seeking a lifelong partnership. Marriage and family therapist Stacey Hubbard joins us to share her Gottman-based approach for singles navigating the relationship landscape.

• Building friendship first is crucial when dating - take things slowly and watch for signs of trustworthiness
• The honeymoon phase typically lasts 6-18 months with feel-good chemicals making us more trusting
• Understanding the three phases of relationships: limerence (honeymoon), trust-building, and commitment
• Many couples skip from honeymoon phase to commitment without properly building trust
• Trust indicators include honesty, transparency, proof of alliance, ethical actions, and accountability
• Develop a "positive habit of mind" by scanning for what's good rather than focusing on flaws
• Successful couples dedicate at least six hours a week to their relationship
• Focus on "unique value" (personality, values, interests) rather than just "mate value" (physical attraction)

Check out the Lessons in Love for Singles workshop at gottman.com under the singles dropdown, or visit staceyhubbard.com for more resources.

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Dr. Dave Schramm:

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Dr. Liz Hale:

http://www.drlizhale.com/

Speaker 1:

Dr Liz and I typically tackle topics to help couples, but today we bring on a therapist who offers help and hope for singles who are dating for fun or longing for love and marriage. On today's episode, we welcome Stacey Hubbard to the show to talk about tips for singles when it comes to fun, trust, commitment and so much more. Our guest today is Stacey Hubbard, a licensed marriage and family therapist with over 25 years of experience helping individuals and couples thrive. She earned her master's in counseling from Portland State University and has spent the past two decades using the Gottman Method, becoming certified 13 years ago and a master trainer with the Gottman Institute in 2016. Years ago and a master trainer with the Gottman Institute in 2016. Stacey trains other therapists, works with couples in therapy and even teaches a singles course she developed based on the Gottman approach. She lives on 10 beautiful acres near Ashland, oregon, with her husband and their four dogs, and loves hiking, kayaking, sports and travel. We hope you enjoy the show.

Speaker 2:

We hope you enjoy the show. Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. I'm psychologist Dr Liz Hale, along with the beloved professor Dr Dave Schramm. Together we have dedicated our life's work to bringing you the best we have in valid marital research, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. Well, today's segment, dave, I love this topic. We're dedicating it to singles.

Speaker 1:

So good.

Speaker 2:

Today's guest. It is so good. Today's guest and I have something in common we were both single for a very long time, even as practicing marriage and family therapist, so she's a woman after my own heart. What I greatly admire about Stacey Hubbard is that she took matters into her own hands. As a licensed marriage therapist, a certified Gottman therapist and a master trainer for them, she teamed up with the Gottmans and many of their key leaders to create an intensive workshop for singles dedicated to building healthier relationships in the world. So we're going to talk about healthy dating with the support of science and more Stacey. Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. The way we date really matters doesn't it.

Speaker 3:

Yes, it does. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm going to talk about it.

Speaker 2:

Yes and how? So? How does dating, how we date, how does that really matter? In a nutshell, yes and how?

Speaker 3:

so? How does dating, how we date, how does that really matter? In a nutshell, well, one thing that I've really learned in creating this workshop for singles and all the time I've worked with couples and singles throughout the decades here is just the importance of building friendship at the beginning of dating and really and taking it slow, I mean that's one thing that we can talk more about, the kind of science behind why that's important. But building friendship and fondness and admiration, creating love maps when you're new into dating somebody, and, as we'll talk about the principles that we really focus on in the Gottman approach and in the singles course, is that you want to be able to apply these skills to friendships, to family relationships, to coworkers.

Speaker 2:

Any relationship. I love this. I don't know why I didn't think about this before, stacey, we'd all love to hear. How did this start? This is called Lessons in Love for Singles.

Speaker 3:

You and your marriage status played a crucial role as well, as did the doorman in a Manhattan hotel. So I was teaching a couples workshop in New York City, in Manhattan, and it's the Art and Science of Love, the couples workshop, right. So I was facilitating that. But the doorman at the hotel was asking about the content in the workshop and so I told him all about it and he was really excited and he said can I go to one of those? And I said, well, actually you have to have a partner. And he said, oh, that's too bad, I don't have a partner right now and I think this would be good for me to learn all this stuff. And I said, yeah, well, best of luck. And again, at that time I was single. So this was 10 years ago now.

Speaker 3:

So, on the flight back home so I live in Oregon, so I was flying on a red-eye back to Oregon and I was like, well, you know what? That doorman has? A good point, this is important content. And there's no. At that point there was no interactive, actual workshop for single people. So I said, well, let's think about how this could work and I sort of created an outline and talked with Dr Dave Penner, who was the clinical director at the Gottman Institute for a very long time, and he was immediately like yep, sounds, kind of get it up to where it is now, but that was the origin story. So you know, a doorman and a red-eye flight home.

Speaker 2:

Be nice if we could find that doorman. Right. Yeah, I got to say good news. Whether he's married or single, we got something for him Right, right, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1:

Married or single. We got something for him Right. Yeah, that's right, stacey. The main goal in helping singles is to help them date in order to help them marry, but so this suggests that maybe dating to marry isn't always, I guess, the goal in the dating world.

Speaker 3:

Is that right? Yeah, good question. So it's kind of broad, because some people are dating to marry, absolutely they're looking for commitment and to build a life with somebody, and some people are maybe just wanting to more casually date, or they're not sure what they want, or they have come out of a kind of a difficult or traumatic relationship and they just want to explore dating, or maybe they're newly divorced and they want to start dipping their toe back in. So there's a wide range of people that take the course. Um, but the the I think the key part is how those principles that we learn in the workshop translate again to all friendships, family relationships, etc. Etc.

Speaker 3:

And some of the science behind trust and building trust and how the early phases of dating. When you're in that we call it the honeymoon phase there's this oxytocin haze that kind of takes over. There's those sort of dopamine and all these chemicals that flood our system and it feels really good and that's awesome. And also when you have high levels of oxytocin you are more trusting. So there's some research behind that. So that's why it's important and we encourage people to take things slow, to not kind of rush into a bigger commitment in that early honeymoon phase Long answer, but hopefully that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it makes sense for sure.

Speaker 2:

I just love this concept that the Gottmans, their great research, can apply to any relationship single, married as well. And how can singles set that foundation for love Stacey? What are the common dating practices?

Speaker 3:

maybe that even should be avoided workshop and in the research that I did for the workshop is to, you know, take things slowly, meaning dating, but also keeping in mind the five signs of trust. So these are Dr Gottman's sort of five signs of trustworthiness that he writes about in the book what Makes Love Last, which is one of my favorites. So there is honesty, transparency, proof of alliance, meaning that person will have your back and be there for you when you need them. Ethical actions oh, now, I'm forgetting how to trust Transparency, ethical, ethical actions group of alliance.

Speaker 2:

Uh, yeah, I'm gonna have to look at that.

Speaker 3:

Four and a five, though that's beautiful so that takes time to to kind of build and to really dig into can I trust this person? Do that kind of? The essence is are they going to have my back? Will they be there for me? Can I count on them? Do I matter? And that does take time. So, with that in mind, encouraging people to take things slow and also kind of keep in touch with their friends or family, invite them in like, hey, meet this person I'm dating. Or I'm processing and talking with my friends when I'm dating about this person and are they trustworthy? Because that really is so crucial.

Speaker 2:

That is very cool. Accountability might have been the other one, accountability, thank you. Yeah, that's cool. I had to look it up, so that was really very cool. It's very powerful actually. And you know, I have to be honest with you, I didn't date my husband a long time before we married and some of these things, thank goodness, kind of showed up after the fact. You know what I mean. But I am grateful for when they do show up every single day. It just deepens that love and affection. But do we have any idea how long it might take then to foster this? I didn't follow any kind of particular rule, stacey. Is there a rule for how long one should date according to Gottman's, to be able to maybe see some of these things before you make that big commitment?

Speaker 3:

Sure. So there's not a hard and fast rule but what we know, that oxytocin kind of haze, or the dopamine, that whole honeymoon phase. It was anywhere from like six months to a year, year and a half, um, so anywhere in that range, I mean once there's really you're getting over the what we call that haze, which again it's fun, it feels good and I always say thank heavens that it ends at some point because otherwise nothing would get done in the world. Right, it's hard to focus, you just think about that person all the time. So when that starts to kind of fade, again, that's where you're starting to build trust and figure out do they have my back and are they accountable?

Speaker 2:

So that range six months, a year and a half is is usually a good marker wow, that takes some time, doesn't it that that was just for the haze to wear off. Did I get that right?

Speaker 3:

yeah, and again, that's different for everyone, so there's no hard and fast rule. Um, yeah, yeah nice.

Speaker 1:

I mean thinking about that. It gives people an opportunity to see them in different situations outside of just the fun and the love. You see, okay, yeah, maybe when we go out or we there's money involved doing purchasing and habits, and then you see them maybe when they're tired and cranky and not just yeah, bing, they look like a million bucks every time, and so you get to see them a different, maybe even season to season of time of day and weeks and months, as that goes on, as you develop that friendship and that trust, like you're saying. But yeah, I agree with Liz, kind of that, just kind of depends. It feels like some just take a little bit longer than others but really making time to get to know that person Beyond the superficial right Know that person.

Speaker 1:

We'll be right back after this brief message and we're back. Let's dive right in. Let's talk about the uh, three phases of of love. You you mentioned this. I'm assuming this is part of the workshop as well. Phase one you talk about is is limerence, and that is a probably a term that very few, unless you're like going to, you know the school and you're taking human development, family studies, types, classes or things. Can you explain what limerence is?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so limerence is that technical term for the honeymoon phase, when you are in that oxytocin, dopamine, serotonin haze that it kind of feels like a drug because it is right. It's that pleasure center in your brain releasing those you know chemicals and hormones. Uh, so it is that early phase when everything is wonderful and you can. You'll think about that person all the time and you like the way they smell and you can't wait to be with them and that kind of that attraction. So that's the first phase.

Speaker 2:

And then what about phase two, what about phase three?

Speaker 3:

So, that is the all important trust building phase. So this is where people are trying to determine does my partner have my back, can I count on them, are they going to be there for me? And so Dr Gottman, when he was writing what Makes Love Last, he went back and reviewed all the research and his recordings in early research and really what couples were saying in that kind of all-important phase is they were kind of saying like do you have my back? In a nutshell, and so the importance of trust building is that. That's kind of where you determine that Now.

Speaker 3:

So that's the phase where the most fighting occurs in that early stage, because not that it always happens. Sometimes that trust building is really smooth and it's really obvious. But that can be where the most fighting occurs because people are trying to like am I important to you, do I matter? So that is an important transition that a lot of people don't, they're not aware of it or they may skip to the third phase, which is commitment, without truly building trust. So I had a couple that I worked with where they went kind of from the oxytocin, got engaged really early, jumped to the commitment, but they didn't build that trust and so I was in. Luckily, we were in therapy before they got married. They were engaged, but they were really having all that fighting and when we looked at the three phases from a bigger perspective, they realized like, oh, we got to slow this down, we didn't build trust, we need to build trust, and so we worked on that in therapy. So the trust building oh sorry, good question.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's interesting. So you can actually kind of go backwards and pick up where, pick up what we jumped over? Yep, yeah, absolutely. And how did you do that? I'm curious what? What did you do to help this couple? What did they do? Was it a matter of putting themselves in different scenarios, like Dave suggests?

Speaker 3:

I think that's such a great idea um, so that was part of it, what we had to do, because one way to build trust is attuning to your partner's negative emotions, which is important, and there are times where people have what we call a meta emotion mismatch. So what that means is meta emotion is how you feel about feelings. Right, and so if there's a mismatch and one person really wants to talk about and process feelings and the other person is kind of dismissive or avoidant of feelings, that can be a big clash. And so part of that with that couple was actually digging into the meta emotion history for each of them and trying to build the ability for both partners to attune, which means turn toward your partner when they have negative emotions, when they are sad or scared or angry. So that's a way to build trust in relationship. We also worked a lot on some of the friendship stuff around fondness and admiration and just really slowing that down. So that's right, it's been a while, but that's what I remember anyways.

Speaker 3:

That is very cool.

Speaker 2:

And did they end up getting married? Sorry, I'm so curious. Did that couple?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, from what I remember, yes, I'm going to say yes, yes, they definitely got married.

Speaker 1:

That is very cool. Yeah, thanks, lindyann, excuse me, I should have asked this earlier. Give me a better sense of the the workshops themselves length. Are they virtual? Are they in person? Uh, you know the couple or singles. I guess you know the audience size, those types of things yeah.

Speaker 3:

So let me give a kind of a history and that'll answer your question. So in we did our first actual workshop in person in summer 2016 in Seattle, and so that was Dr Dave Penner and myself and that was kind of our test workshop and that was, I would say, I think, 20, somewhere in that range 25 people, because that was our pilot and it got really good feedback. So we made some adjustments and then started doing bigger and bigger in-person workshops in Seattle. They were always in Seattle, so I would fly up there and Dave and I would present together. Those grew to. Our biggest one was, I think we had a little over 100 people in the room and then we did also have a live stream at the same time of 200 people from all over the world. So that was our biggest one. And then this is all kind of leading up to COVID.

Speaker 3:

So from like 2016 to 2019, early 2020, we were doing them in person. Into 2019, early 2020, we were doing them in person. So we did our last in-person one in. It was actually late February, early March 2020. And then we transitioned into doing them on Zoom and now we do them. Usually it's around probably 60 people on Zoom when we do them through the Institute, but 60 people on zoom when we do them through the institute. But people are now being trained to present them on their own, like there's a leader course that people can take to teach other singles or, you know, to teach singles how, um, how to be effective in relationship, and so those are both virtual and in personperson, so it's both options at this point, okay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, it helps kind of set all this context up for what you're curious about. Just your go-to tips. Do you have there's singles maybe listening right now and they're like, okay, you know, I've got to. You know it's the honeymoon phase and then learning to trust and then commitment? Do you have any kind of go-to tips for singles who are listening or maybe in the midst and they're a little hesitant? Or man, they've been in this for now it feels like for years and I'm going through the cycle. Nobody good out there anymore. What tips do you have?

Speaker 3:

Yep. So one important thing is the importance of mate value versus unique value. So this was from research done at the University of Texas and this is the difference between mate value and unique value is this Mate value is that initial, immediate first impression of somebody, almost like an attraction or almost like an animal attraction to somebody, versus the unique value is something that develops a little bit more slowly and over time where you start to realize, oh, they're really funny or we have a lot of things in common and oh, I feel the same way about that kind of like the values, the interest that that may take a little more time to sort of develop, um, and that that's actually how my husband and I got together. So you know, in terms of my story, if I can insert that here is, I was so a single for eight years in my 40s, also living in a smaller town in Oregon, not a lot of options.

Speaker 3:

It was difficult. I always normalize that for people, dating is hard, internet dating hard, all of it. It's difficult. It's a process you got to be hardy and sturdy to to persist, um, but so I was kind of, yeah, my late 40s and my husband at, I mean, obviously we were just friends at the time, but we we went to the same crossfit gym and we got to know each other over years like little conversations at the gym.

Speaker 3:

We started then then going to group outings, you know we would go like a bunch of us would go to a movie or a concert or we went like axe throwing and you know comedy shows, that kind of stuff. So over time, you know, we kind of started to figure out we did have a lot in common, had a lot of the same kind of values and goals and beliefs, and so we kind of that kind of slowly evolved and we, yeah, so started dating and got married. And so that's one important thing is that I guess the the long and the short of that is when, when dating, to kind of have that more approach about like discovering the unique value of somebody, if that makes sense yes, yeah, and friendship.

Speaker 2:

I mean, what a sweet beginning to have. That kind of association didn't start off as romantic, right. It was just we were, you know, we were like-minded, a bit worked out of the same place and singles got together. I think that's just really a beautiful love story.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we're pretty lucky. We say that every day.

Speaker 2:

Pretty lucky, yeah, and even then, right, even then, marriage is still work, right, we talked about dating as work and being online dating as work. I met my husband online as well, and I wouldn't have met, I wouldn't have dated without that, because we're not going to date our clients, right, we're seeing married people for starters. Plus, we're not going to date our clients, but it's just like where do you meet? Where do singles meet? So what were the? Okay, stacey, do you mind? What were some of the surprises in marriage? Even then, even when you're so trained and did the single program, were there any? I certainly had my share.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, yep, it's uh ongoing people always, yeah, it's, it's hard it there. We are very lucky and blessed, uh, to have found each other, but there are still hard moments, um of you know, learning how to manage conflict and each other's styles of conflict and styles of emotion and how those are expressed, because we have a different family history. So we always say in the Gottman Method, every relationship is a cross-cultural experience, because it doesn't matter if you grew up on the same street, same religion, race, culture, if you, you know, you grew up in a different family, household with different beliefs, values, rituals, symbols, etc. So it takes some time to get to know that in a lot of discussions, how things should go. And then life stressors and learning how to manage conversations about that. Learning how to manage conversations about that. So I'm, you know, even being a highly trained marriage therapist. There's still conflicts we have to work through, you know.

Speaker 3:

So repair is probably one of my favorites kind of two ways you know from what I, when I work with singles and couples, is being able to repair, either in the moment or after the fact. Saying things like I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I regret what I said earlier. Can we talk? Or hey, let's slow this down. Things are getting a little heated. I want to understand what's going on for you, somehow kind of reaching across that divide to keep the conversation going. Those repair tactics are really helpful.

Speaker 2:

And did he also like the Gottman approach? My husband? He's not read one marriage book, right, it's just not his thing. Nor does he really need to, in my belief system anyway. So it's when I just kind of keep myself in check things go so much better.

Speaker 3:

But was he interested? Did you do trainings together? I'm so curious, good question. So he doesn't formally have any kind of understanding of when we talk about the Gottman Method. He actually kind of follows the Gottmans on social media and so he kind of understanding of when we talk about the Gottman method. He actually kind of follows the Gottman's on on social media and so he kind of sees more of that stuff than I do, cause I don't really do social media. But he, so his, his understanding of it is is kind of rudimentary.

Speaker 3:

But what I will say, he, without knowing it, was doing a lot of this work before we started dating, like learning how to be a good listener, how to ask good, open-ended questions and be kind of a more curious listener. He was doing a lot of that work on himself before we even got together and having his own kind of self-care practices, physical activity and Tai Chi, and so he kind of has a different approach to it. And then now he's actually now a certified alcohol and drug counselor. He um kind of had a career change which he's sort of in the same field but with a different focus. Um, so yeah, we, yeah, we have a lot of a lot in common, and a lot of differences too, but it's great.

Speaker 2:

No wonder you kind of found each other. You were both interested in really self-improvement, you know, and trying to understand, to show up as the best kind of human being that you can. That's quite lovely.

Speaker 1:

We'll be right back after this brief message. And we're back, let's dive right in okay, let's, let's.

Speaker 2:

Let's just ask one more here. Sorry hogging the time here. What about a favorite tool for either singles or couples? So you mentioned the reparative work. I love that. I love the repair checklist that the gotmans have had for years. My, my checklist is so old that I give to every couple I work with, but I love it. What other tools do you find helpful, whether you're single or married?

Speaker 3:

Yep, great. So one thing that I wanted to mention is that in that third phase of relationship, the commitment phase, is in that phase when you really commit to somebody, it's kind of believing and acting on the belief that this is my person and we're going to get through the hard times. In that phase we see that couples, when they're doing it successfully we call this true commitment they are cherishing, so they're thinking pro-relationship thoughts instead of trashing or negative relationship thoughts or comparisons. So that's one thing that I really try to do every day, if I can, is to think cherishing thoughts and pro-relationship thoughts of positive comparisons. So it sort of looks like this I'm so lucky my partner is in my life, I'm so happy because he is like blank, blank versus why does he do that? I wish he was more like so-and-so or why can't he be more like somebody else, real or imagined?

Speaker 3:

That is crucial in having this true commitment versus that kind of conditional commitment which involves those negative comparisons. So that's one thing. And then another that's sort of tied really closely with fondness and admiration is being able to have the positive habit of mind. So the positive habit of mind is so you imagine walking into a room and scanning for everything that's good, everything you like in that room, and really focusing on and commenting on that Instead of the negative habit of mind. Imagine you're walking into a room and just looking for everything that you don't like, everything that's off or wrong, wrong, and really focusing on that. So in relationship it's the same. You're scanning your relationship, your social environment for things that you appreciate, love, admire, that you respect, and then you're calling those out and pointing those out. Versus walking into that, thinking about your relationship and just scanning for the things that you don't like, that critical, negative habit of mind. I don't like that. Stop doing that, don't do that. That really shifts things toward that negative perspective versus in that positive habit of mind, with that scanning for positive, commenting and letting your partner know or again, even friends, kids, coworkers.

Speaker 3:

Then when you need to ask for something to be different or you have a concern or a request, it's a lot easier for the other person to kind of hear that and go, yeah, that makes sense. You have a kind of a well stored up we call it that emotional bank account stored up where you could say, hey, this isn't working for me, can we talk about how to do it differently, then that's more effective. And then that also ties in one more You're getting a lot of takeaways, one that is so important and I'm sure you've had a lot of guests talk about this before in the Gottman approach. It's that gentle startup right Just expressing feelings and needs, right Talking about your own, what's going on for you in a certain situation, how you're feeling about it and what you would need instead for things to be better. That's another crucial, you know. Soften your startup and, with that positive habit of mine in the background, it makes that all go, you know, smoother sometimes there's just the little things, right, guys.

Speaker 2:

Hi, dave, do you find that too, my friend?

Speaker 1:

absolutely small things in your own marriage. That's it. That's exactly it. Wow. Well, stacy, let me ask you um a couple questions we we like to ask all of our our guests. The first one is with your personal knowledge, your experience, your professional background, what do you feel like is a a key to a stronger marriage connection?

Speaker 3:

so we have the. I don't know if anybody's ever talked about the six hours a week or the magic six hours before on the podcast. Go ahead, say more. Yeah. So in the Gottman research we found that successful couples are really spending six hours dedicated to their relationship every week and that's broken up into different chunks and segments. Maybe a date night is a couple hours, or just connecting at the end of the day and talking about what happened in your day, what were the highs and lows. That that's going to add up probably to an hour throughout the week, those little connections. Sometimes they're bigger, like a date night or having a longer chat on a weekend.

Speaker 3:

Six hours dedicated to the relationship, and that's kind of a minimum. I would imagine if I never really have counted I'd have to get my stopwatch going, but I'm sure my husband and I are way above that. I will say we don't have kids, we have dogs, and so we go for walks with the dogs and we talk and we have a lot of that kind of downtime. So we have a little bit more of that flexibility. But that focus on that it's a really important time to turn toward and connect those six hours.

Speaker 1:

So that's one thing that's really helpful. I'm sure that is, and I think that for some couples they're like six hours, right, I don't even get 15 minutes this week or whatever the craziness of the things that are going on. But you're right, yeah, it does. You have to carve out, intentionally carve out time, quality, quantity, time. So, thank you, yeah, love that.

Speaker 2:

So, stacey, where can our listeners go to find out more about you, this tremendous resource for singles? It's called, it's called. What is it called again? Lessons in Love, lessons in Love. I love it and all the other great resources you have for helping couples in general, and then we're going to share that on our show notes.

Speaker 3:

Oh great. So there's a couple of ways so people can get in touch with me directly. My website is my name, stacy Hubbardcom, so I've got a lot of information there. You can contact me through the website, then the Gottman Institute so Gottmancom. The Gottman Institute, so gottmancom.

Speaker 3:

And you'll see on the main page when you log in there's a singles dropdown and there's going to be information about upcoming workshops. So I've got one coming up in September and then people are starting to put those on all over the world and so it'll say live events and you click on that and it'll show you the calendar of all the singles courses that are happening all over the world. Because we have developed a course, a leader's course, so that anybody you don't even have to be a therapist or a psychologist it could be a life coach, a pastor, a mentor, a chaplain, and so you can take that course and be approved to teach and you'll have access to all the content. We have a really nice manual that we've created over the years and a lot of extra tools and videos, and so that's the main hub is just going to the Gottman website and like one that singles drop down and or reaching out to me.

Speaker 1:

Awesome and we will do that. How cool is that.

Speaker 2:

You know, can I just ask Stacey? It seems like that's probably the only program right that really anyone could teach.

Speaker 3:

Yes, it's similar to the seven principles for couples, right? So there's the trainer course for seven principles for couples, and that's something, again, anybody could train in and to be able to facilitate those couples seven principles courses then we added the singles train the trainer or the leader course so that people can be trained to teach the seven principles courses. Then we added this singles train the trainer or the leader course so that people can be trained to teach the specific content for singles. And I will say, even with the singles term obviously is important. But sometimes there's what we call individuals. Right, they're in a relationship but for whatever reason, maybe they want to work on their ability to show up in relationship or beef up their skills. So sometimes the people who are in those workshops might be they're in a relationship, but they're coming solo, so they're individuals.

Speaker 2:

So it can be either or Is the seven principles the same as lessons in love or are they two different, distinct, distinctly different courses? Then they cover different topics.

Speaker 3:

Well, the focus in the seven P or some principles for couples is that you're showing, you're going with a partner to that, or you're training to teach those to couples versus the singles course.

Speaker 2:

Same principles right. Same principles, I suppose, apply.

Speaker 3:

Roughly yes, obviously, with the singles course there's a focus on dating. There's a focus on understanding those trust you know the phases of relationship, how to determine who you can trust, like kind of emotionally safe people looking for signs of trustworthiness and that there's also that focus on the dating content, in addition to the bigger, the principles that apply.

Speaker 2:

All right, that's very cool. Learned so much.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and we'll put these links to the courses for our listeners in the show notes, as Liz mentioned. Hey, stacey, before we wrap up our time together, we like to ask another question that is a takeaway of the day. Is there a take home message that you want our listeners to remember from our discussion today?

Speaker 3:

it is. Would that be something we've already talked about?

Speaker 1:

it could be. Yeah, if there's something you want to re-emphasize and say, hey, yes, from all that we talked about, this is what listeners should. I want them to remember. What do you think?

Speaker 3:

yeah, with the focus on the fondness and admiration system in relationship, that that applies to all again, all relationships. So we know successful couples and just successful people have the ability to have that positive habit of mind and to notice kind of what they admire and appreciate in their lives and with their people they interact with and they're sharing that people they interact with and they're sharing that. Those are successful people in relationships, in friendships, in life that focus on the positive habit of mind and sharing what you appreciate and admire about the people in your life and what you have that you can be thankful for in your life. It just is a game changer. So that's something I try to focus on every day. It's really helpful. It's not always easy, but it's important.

Speaker 1:

Oh man, yeah, that fondness and admiration, amen, yeah, liz. What about you? What's your takeaway?

Speaker 2:

Well that was it, that positive habit of mind. I've not heard that phrase before, stacey. It used to be something different.

Speaker 3:

No, not that I know of. And so one thing that we need to know and this wasn't Gottman research, this was some research done out of Israel it's completely separate from marriage per se. But the people, just people who have the positive habit of mind, live seven years longer Because, for example, if they get cut off in traffic right, somebody cut them off they can kind of just let it go and say like they must be hurt, I'm not, I'm okay, nobody's hurt, it's okay. And I'm assuming that has something to do with heightened physiology and being able to just allow, instead of getting heightened, and to be able to just say oh no, I'm good, I'm not in a hurry, I'm okay, that. So there's something there with that. Just the mentality that people with that positive habit of mind bring to life, gratitude, I'm assuming it has a lot to do with that as well. It's kind of a bigger concept outside of, per se, the Gottman research.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I appreciate that so much and I also I guess my takeaway, dear Dave, might be. You know it's what Stacey was saying about. You know, I don't really gush very well about my husband. It's just not my natural thing and I would like to be better at that. When you say, stacey, like I'm so lucky my husband's in my life, you know I'm so lucky, we're so blessed, and I feel that way, and I imagine you say that so your husband can hear, I think that's really probably my takeaways. That's just so beautiful. I do believe that whatever we focus on definitely grows and we see more evidence of it. So that's my takeaway. I'm going to stay with that one for the rest of the day. Dave, what about you? What's the most crucial insight we've discussed today do you think, with our guest Stacey Hubbard, that you hope we all take to heart?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks Liz and Stacey. Yeah, this has been interesting to think about. It's just a different lens right For singles who maybe are struggling and they're dating for fun or they're dating for marriage. But just these principles, I think, are critical. I want to piggyback on what both of you have talked about with that positive habit of mind. I've actually heard I need to kind of verify this, I guess but we're bored with about five times as many neurons or brain cells that are wired for negativity and threat for every one brain cell that's wired for positivity and opportunity. So we already have this negativity bias. I think that, even so, we see someone, even online, and we make a snap judgment, probably like less than a half a second, and like, okay, would they be good, Are they cute or just based on physical appearance. But I think that whole idea of that friendship my wife, we did it in high school, Since our junior year in chemistry class. That's another story for another time, but it was just like Of course it was chemistry class, that's true, it was chemistry.

Speaker 1:

There was a lot of chemistry going on in that class, but we were just like the best of friends. We just hung out together. We had so much fun together. I didn't even kiss her for like six months. Of friends, we just hung out together. We had so much fun together. I didn't even like kiss her for like six months or something. It was just so much fun. And I think they base that on fun, on commonality and keeping things light, not getting physical too fast. Those, I think, will come to mind for singles who are in this Don't rush things, don't jump in too fast. But, yeah, look for the keep it kind of fun instead of physical, yeah, too fast. Anyway, it's been a. It's been a great, a great discussion. Thank you, thanks, stacy. Thanks for coming on, taking time from Oregon. Right To be able to come on and share some, some tips and some tools for us or our listeners and some tools for us.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely For our listeners today. So thanks again.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. It's been fun.

Speaker 1:

Yes, well, that's it for now, friends. We will see you again next time. Thanks for joining us. See you next time on another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection podcast.

Speaker 2:

Indeed, we will and remember. It's the small and simple things that create a stronger marriage connection. Take good care now.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at Stronger Marriage Life, and Facebook at Stronger Marriage, so be sure to share with us which topics you loved or which guests we should have on the show.

Speaker 1:

Next, If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit StrongerMarriageorg, where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.