Stronger Marriage Connection
It's often said that marriage takes work. The Stronger Marriage Connection podcast wants to help because a happy marriage is worth the effort. USU Family Life Professor Dr. Dave Schramm and Clinical Psychologist Dr. Liz Hale talk with experts about the principles and practices that will enhance your commitment, compassion, and emotional connection.
More than ever before, marriages face obstacles, from the busyness of work and daily hassles to disagreements and digital distractions. It's no wonder couples sometimes drift apart, growing resentful, lonely, and isolated.
The Utah Marriage Commission invites you to listen and discover new ways to strengthen and protect your marriage connection today!
Stronger Marriage Connection
From Conflict to Connection: Mindfulness in Relationships | Annmarie Chereso | #146
Conscious Relationship Coach Annmarie Chereso shares powerful insights on transforming conflict into deeper connection through mindfulness, vulnerability, and heart-centered awareness. She reveals how asking yourself "Where am I?" can identify whether fear or trust is driving your relationship patterns.
• Conflict isn't a problem but a portal to deeper awareness and connection
• Our relationship to conflict is conditioned by childhood experiences
• The question "Where am I?" helps identify if we're operating from fear or trust
• When contracted (even 1%), we're in protection mode and unavailable for authentic connection
• Accepting our humanity means acknowledging we get scared, especially in relationships
• The check-in process integrates mind, body, and heart intelligence
• Breaking generational patterns requires awareness and acceptance without judgment
• Connection with others begins with connecting to yourself first
• Being willing to "go first" with vulnerability transforms relationship dynamics
• Accepting your own humanity and your partner's humanity is key to stronger connection
For free resources including the check-in process Annmarie mentioned, visit annmariechereso.com
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If you're in a romantic relationship, then you know that conflict is inevitable. On today's episode, conscious Relationship Coach Anne-Marie Churraso joins us and we dive deep into mindfulness, vulnerability and getting our hearts right. She even shares a simple, short question that can reveal whether fear or trust is driving the conflict in our relationships. You'll learn how to shift your mindset, pay attention to the present moment and take radical responsibility. Anne-marie Churso is a conscious relationship coach, speaker and author of their number one international bestseller, the Perfectly Imperfect Family. With over 20 years of experience, she helps couples break free from generational patterns, navigate conflict with clarity and reconnect with their true selves. Blending deep spiritual insight with practical tools, anne-marie guides women to let go of conditioned beliefs, embody love and create empowered, fulfilling relationships. Her playful, heart-centered approach makes her a trusted ally for women seeking greater peace, trust and freedom in their lives. She lives in Chicago with her husband and their beautifully blended family of nine, living what she teaches love, presence and conscious connection.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoy the show. You enjoy the show. Hey friends, welcome to another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection podcast. I'm Dr Dave here at Utah State University, alongside Dr Liz Hill, our therapist and clinical psychologist. We're aiming to bring you the very best that we have in research and resources, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. All right, liz. What if conflicts in your marriage could actually become doorways to deeper intimacy and connection? I believe it. I believe it.
Speaker 2:I know seriously and it can happen.
Speaker 1:So excited for our guest today. Conscious Relationship Coach, Anne-Marie Charesto has spent two decades helping people transform their relationships using simple, science-backed methods that turn drama into trust and disconnection into love. Welcome to the show, Anne-Marie.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be with you guys.
Speaker 1:We're thrilled to have you join us, Kate Emery, as I was reading a little bit more about you, you've learned from some great minds out there when it comes to positivity and mindfulness, even conflict names like John Kabat-Zinn, Thich Nhat Hanh, Martha Beck. Before we dive into our discussion, can you share with us just a bit about you and your background? Tell us a little bit about your story and kind of your big picture purpose? Why do you do this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, thanks for asking and thanks for having me Big picture. So I was six weeks pregnant with my third child, my marriage started to crumble, life started falling apart. When I was eight months pregnant, my husband moved out and my life took like a complete left turn and it sent me into a downward spiral, like, well, you know, I was really in it for a long, long time and um could not figure out my way out and I did all the things you know like tried to figure out how to make things better and back to what, the way I thought they should be Right. And life had different plans for me and it took me on this journey which started with mindfulness, and I started learning about meditation and mindfulness and I had been a yogi for many, many years and I had been dipping into mindfulness and I'd been dipping into meditation for close to almost a decade, but I didn't quite fully get it. So my entry into all this work was really through that lens of deep, deep practice in mindfulness and meditation. And and then that journey, like you know, sort of a leaf on the river or in the wind, it just kept taking me to these places and I kept saying yes and following the lead, and it kept opening me up to more and more awareness.
Speaker 3:I started becoming more and more self-aware, or what I would call today conscious, and as I kept evolving or opening up, I was thinking wait a minute, why didn't anyone tell me this a long time ago? This is really valuable stuff, and I decided that I really wanted to share what I was learning with others, and I started by teaching and talking about mindfulness in schools with preschoolers and little kids. And then it kind of grew and I worked with older kids and started working with college anywhere from preschool to college age and then it kept morphing. I started working with teachers and then I started working with parents and it just kept growing. And here I am today. I continue to grow and evolve and learn and I really really feel honored to be able to share what has worked and resonated for me in my life with others. I think it's probably one of the greatest honors of my life.
Speaker 2:Wow, I love this idea of consciousness. Do you have a quick tip, a quick consciousness way to be, or just even identify Emory in the moment, whether I'm being conscious or not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when I first started learning about meditation and mindfulness, I learned from the greats, you know, thich Nhat Hanh. I got to attend a full week-long retreat with him and other educators, john Kabat-Zinn, who's sort of the father of you know mindfulness here in the States, and you know I was like what is the difference between mindfulness, you know, and meditation? And I couldn't get it. And finally, it's one of those things you don't get it. Until you get it, you can talk about it all you want, but embodying it. And so when I really got it, it was like consciousness or mindfulness.
Speaker 3:What I would say they're synonymous with one another is being here now in a non-judgmental way. So it's really just like being with. What is like? For instance, I'm sort of sitting in my office, my toes are cold. Anyone listening could do this right now. You just get really present by bringing your attention and awareness to the body, because we're human beings here on this planet, right? So, feeling your fingertips, feeling your toes, like I can feel a little tightness in my jaw, which always happens when I'm sort of in these kinds of conversations. My belly is a little tight, you know. I can notice some clenching in my body and just being just noticing that, without judging it, without assigning it, like well, I'm, my fingers are cold because I'm not wearing socks or it's air conditioned, you know, just just noticing non-judgmentally. That is really what presence really is, not letting the judgments, the identification get in the way. So it's an is-ness, it's a what you say. What was the last word? I used the word is-ness.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure if that's in the rebel dictionary or not, but it's just being here fully.
Speaker 2:Now I can see what a gift that would give to our relationships, right.
Speaker 3:And it's hard.
Speaker 2:And it's hard. Yeah, you had me until you started to say nonjudgmental and I was like, oh, that adds to it All right. Well, many of us were raised, I think, to believe that going back to conflict, that conflict is something bad or scary, it's wrong, it means maybe we're with the wrong person, but we love that. You say conflict isn't a sign of failure, but it's an invitation, and an invitation to grow at that. How do you help women in particular shift their mindset, anne-marie, to view conflict as actually an opportunity for growth and even deeper connection?
Speaker 3:Yeah, this thing about a conflict being a problem is really like a belief system that we've all been conditioned into. You know, conditioned into and I would invite anyone listening in like, think about your childhood and what conflict was like when you were a kid and how the adults around you behaved around it, because that is how you developed your ideas about what conflict means. And you know, I was talking to a client yesterday and he was discussing his relationship to conflict on his father's side versus his client relationship to conflict on his mother's side. Big conflicts would happen to the adults and they wouldn't engage the kids and it would just sort of be happening but there would be no residual impact on the kids versus the opposite and his mother's family. It would sort of fall onto the kids and there'd be lots of drama and you know. And so he said he said you know, in this family system conflict was fine. I just didn't have a problem with it. And then in this family system it was really different and it caused a lot of stress and anxiety. But the way that I've learned, you know, so I fall into that category.
Speaker 3:When I grew up in a family, conflict was a problem. You know, we want to stop it. We don't want, you know, anything uncomfortable is something we want to push away. And so when I was going through my divorce and all these things and I was developing all these stories about these conflicts, I was in relationship to all of it from a place of resistance, pushing it away. This is bad, this is wrong, we don't want it.
Speaker 3:And slowly, when I started to peel back the onion, I was like, whoa, conflict is actually a portal to deeper layers of awareness. For me, it's become a real invitation to see where is it that my heart is closed versus my heart is open? Because, you know, we're talking about relationships here and the only way to create strong connections in relationships is to be connected through the heart. In my opinion Now I know I've said this really blanket statement the only way but it's the only way I have come to find authentic connection really happens when my heart is fully open and I am fully available to give and receive from that heart centered place.
Speaker 2:I love that, love that idea Going back to that isness again, huh yeah.
Speaker 3:Mm, hmm, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love this idea and, marie, this, this open heart, reminds me of a good friend, wally Goddard. He likes to say that irritation is an invitation. When we feel irritated, it's an invitation for introspection, an invitation for understanding or compassion or perspective taking to slow down when we feel irritated. So I love that. And then he talks about getting our hearts right. So, uh, so much of this is really at the heart of of conflict. You, you talk about one question that can reveal whether fear or trust is driving the conflict in our relationships. Can you share? I'm dying to hear what that question is and how our listeners can use it the next time they're in the middle of an argument with their partner.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a simple question, but it's a complex. Well, it's an involved process. So the question is where am I? And the question helps us, helps us humans kind of identify am I in a contracted state, meaning, is my heart closed or am I in an open-hearted state? Is my heart open? So the question helps us identify are we in fear when I'm contracted? Any, if I'm 1% contracted, that means I'm in fear. I'm protecting against.
Speaker 3:If I'm 1% contracted, that means I'm in fear, I'm protecting against something that means my heart is closed, even just 1%, which means that our limbic brain is going to be paying attention to what it needs to protect. For what's the threat? So, any of our attention or our awareness, unconsciously right, because most of us are operating on an unconscious level. The limbic brain is always back there, operating, looking for threats, looking for threats, looking for threats. And you're going to find them because there are threats. We just look around the world, turn on the news, go through your Instagram feed, look your email. You are being peppered with threats all day long.
Speaker 3:So most of us are walking around slightly contracted, trying to protect ourselves. So if you can start to become more consciously aware of when you're in those contracted states, you can then take responsibility for not being available for real, authentic connection, because you cannot authentically connect to another human being if you're focused on protecting yourself, and there's nothing like. The second thing I want to say about this is there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with being in a threatened state. It's human. We have really created a message that you know we should always be positive and we should always be open and we should always be all these things that are not actually possible. We have to accept our humanity, which is we're scared.
Speaker 2:We're scared a lot of the time, yeah, especially in our relationships, when you both say, yeah, I don't. I don't think we're ever more vulnerable than we are in those intimate relationships. I love this, we, we, we love how you integrate the mind body, heart connection and relationships, emery. And no one's really busier, I would probably dare say, than a woman. It seems like who is a wife, a mother, a career person? What does the simple daily practice actually look like of integrating mind, body, heart when you are in so many different places, so many demands upon you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is a really good question. I offer a free gift to my audience called the check-in process, and it's a process that I was taught many, many years ago and it's so stupid, silly that it almost seems ridiculous to do, but I use it like I sat down before this call and I use this process. My husband and I use it before we have any kind of important conversations, I use it before I'm meeting with clients, I use it with my clients and the check-in process is something just like you said, liz. It integrates mind, body, spirit. So we check in with all three centers of intelligence.
Speaker 3:Because you both know we're very head-based in our culture. We spend a lot of time with this baby up here and our brain and our mind. We forget about our body, we forget about our heart and we forget about our gut. So this check-in practice stills you for a moment and invites you into a moment of presence where you're checking in, noticing, very similar to the practice I talked about a few minutes ago, like what's here now, what do I feel in my body, what do I feel in my gut, what is my heart telling me and what is my head telling me, and can I get into alignment with all three of those things. So the check-in practice is, I think, a fundamental practice for any of us, particularly busy moms, because there's so much happening in those lives. We're juggling, juggling, juggling. So much we're very used to overriding our own experience in service of nurturing others. And I mean, of course it's happening to men too. It's not universal for just women, but you did ask about women, so I wanted to address that.
Speaker 1:Nice. I appreciate that We'll be right back after this brief message. And we're back, let's dive right in. Henry, after 20 years you've been at this for quite a while After 20 years plus of coaching, what patterns, I'm curious, do you see in marriages where couples successfully turn conflict into connection versus those who just keep staying stuck in those same fights? Those same patterns, day after day, year after year, over and over.
Speaker 3:This is really simple and I'm going to just kind of repeat what we just talked about a few minutes ago and I want to say I'm saying this from an incredibly nonjudgmental place. It's just like a pragmatic explanation of what happens. But the simple answer is, when we are trapped in that fear place and we are unwilling to open our heart, that's how we create drama and we keep kicking around those patterns, those patterns, those egoic patterns that are coming from that closed heart, that fear-based place. Those patterns are just designed to make us feel safe. It's a false sense of safety, but somehow in childhood we develop those patterns and they, they, they like created some temporary relief. They seem to work for a minute or two and it works, gets us, you know, like an inch closer to where we want to be, and then the same pattern will kick up again because we haven't really resolved it at the core.
Speaker 3:Seen really transform are those that are really deeply willing to go into their vulnerability and open their heart when they're incredibly scared, when they're feeling very threatened. So it's like walking through the fire and then trusting that they're going to be held on the other side of that. When you know the most experience I or the most successful experiences I have with clients and I want to say, with my own marriage and my own relationships, is when I'm willing to go first, when I'm willing to be the most vulnerable person in the room, when I'm willing to let down all my defenses and I would say that's the hardest practice we find ourselves doing.
Speaker 2:Is to go first as the hardest, or to be vulnerable or both.
Speaker 3:Both. I'm sure you've been there before where you feel that vulnerability. This is a really great example. It's not related specifically to an interpersonal relationship, but you know we hold our emotions back all the time in service of you know, taking care of others, of you know what's appropriate or what's not appropriate. And we've learned to bite our emotions back.
Speaker 3:And I remember when my daughter was in seventh or eighth grade, I had a school meeting with one of her teachers who I adored and who supported my daughter through a really rough time, and there was just a lot of gratitude there and we were in a meeting and she was sharing some of her honest opinions about my daughter which, by the way, some people would say were not very favorable, and I was grateful because she was being honest and I didn't find them to be unfavorable, I just found them to be truthful. Anyway, brought emotion forward because I was so grateful to her willingness to be so honest with me and I could feel her love and her care for my daughter, like so many teachers in the world, and I got emotional in the meeting. Now remember. So tears started to come and I remember thinking, oh, don't do this, anne-marie, don't do this, she's not going to know how to be with this right, I'm being incredibly vulnerable.
Speaker 3:Normally we would hold back our emotion, we bite back, we wouldn't show that emotion because you know it's only appropriate in certain conditions Our therapist's office and you know a few other places. So because I'm deeply devoted to feeling my feelings all the way through, being vulnerable and all of this, I allowed it to move through and, of course, she got really uncomfortable. She's like it's okay, it's okay and I'm like no, no, no, I'm actually okay. And what that reminded me is how uncomfortable and how ill-equipped we are to hold each other in our vulnerability. So why don't we get vulnerable with each other? Because our partners haven't learned how to hold our vulnerability, particularly men. Men don't know how to hold women because men haven't been taught how to hold their own emotions, much less hold ours. So it gets real scary, real fast. So I think being willing to really get vulnerable, let your emotions flow as they are and not let someone else's reaction impact that or shut your heart down, is incredibly brave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because it's risky. Right, it's risky, it's almost borderline dangerous. Chad Ford calls it dangerous love, right, it's like, ah, uncomfortable to you know. Let this vulnerable side of me out. We're not taught. We're taught to be tough and just take it and try to solve and instead like be yeah, be open.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very, very. I love the example of just a teacher saying oh no, no, no, don't you know? Kind of like don't cry those tears back in Cause I don't know what to do with them or I didn't want to make you feel bad, but instead the tears are just, they're so beautiful, they're so from the heart and I don't know where they're coming from. Right, maybe that's the first step, is I'm not sure why she's crying? In your case there were tears of gratitude, it sounded like Anne-Marie, more so, I was deeply, deeply grateful.
Speaker 3:You know, and this is why that check-in practice that I mentioned a few minutes ago is so incredibly valuable. Again, super simple, but I had been doing this practice for many, many years at this point every day, and I do it multiple times throughout the day. So as you do this practice, you get to know yourself better and your body. Part of the practice is noticing body sensations. So as you start to notice body sensations, they're like little yellow flags and red flags for your emotions. They're helping you understand yourself better because your body is always talking to you.
Speaker 3:Now, if you're not familiar with the signals from your body, because you're not paying attention, you're not going to know what your body's telling you. So now I can know when I have this little like you know, this little pimp in my stomach and this little poke over here, I'm like, oh, that's going down the gratitude road, or oh, this is going down the anger road, or oh, this is going down the fear road. But I only got there from years and years and years of tuning in, paying attention and listening to my body and listening to my body.
Speaker 2:Good for you. We'd love to know more about your conflict to connection tool, please. So when we're at home and we have the same perpetual fight right, same pattern that comes up, what are some of the actual steps that we can take?
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is great. So the first step is this check and practice that I use, which is really getting related to the body what's happening over here? Self-awareness that question I offered where am I? That is a self-awareness tool that we ask. It helps identify am I feeling in a place of trust or feeling in a place of threat? There's all kinds of ways we can describe that territory. Bottom line is am I in a contracted state? Is my heart open, or am I in an open? Is my heart closed or I'm in an open place? Is my heart open? I don't know if I said that so graciously, but you get my drift.
Speaker 2:We got it.
Speaker 3:But we can tell right away if there's any contraction in the body, if my breath isn't really flowing, if I'm judging you can really help discern, going in depth, how to honestly and radically identify yourself in a place of trust or fear or in that fear place, because the mind can trick you. The mind will say one thing. The body is always telling you the truth. So we go through a whole series of tips and tools around that. But that first step, liz, is where am I? And get self-aware and take radical responsibility. Like if I am in a triggered state, I am not available for authentic connection, I am not available for honest conversation. I'm protecting, which makes perfect sense. It's perfectly acceptable. I am a human being. I have my past traumas and my childhood stuff and I have my current life experience. All those things make up who I am. My job is just to be aware. It's sort of like saying can I go run a marathon if I have a broken leg? Well, of course not. So can I engage in an authentic conflict? Can I have a conflict, a productive conflict, if I'm in this triggered place? And the answer is you are going to create deeper drama with your partner if you are in this triggered state. Once again, no judgment, it's just sort of math One plus one equals two. Triggered plus triggered equals drama and disconnection. And that's fine, that's just what's going to happen. But there's this acceptance piece. So that piece I was talking about when the tears started to come in the parent-teacher conference, I had to really get into acceptance around. This is what's here now. Tears are here now is what's here now. Fears are here now. If I resist any of that, it's going to create some kind of jankiness in my system. So, really, just to be in full acceptance of, like, I'm triggered right now I'm in this argument with my spouse and this is just what is, and I'm going to accept myself for being a human being and having this moment, just as it is. No judgment about it.
Speaker 3:Then we go into other tools. Now there's a third step where we can start applying some tools that we teach which really are like how am I, do I have a willingness in this now moment to shift myself from this unconscious, triggered place to a more conscious place where I can work with the triggers as portals to deeper self-awareness? And again, that's another radical practice of awareness. Like, am I willing to shift right now Is the way I've organized my ego. Am I willing to shift or not?
Speaker 3:And more times than not in my practice, when I'm working with people, when they're in that triggered state, they're not willing to shift, they're just, they're really I am going to stay in this protective state because it feels safe, it feels real safe. And so then again we have to go back to that acceptance and accept ourselves for, like, I'm just not willing to connect right now with myself or anyone else. This is just. And again it's like okay, that's okay.
Speaker 3:But then once we get past that, like yeah, I think I think I'm willing to shift, I think I'm I'm willing to stop protecting myself and open my heart a little bit. And if I'm willing to do that, what are the things I'm actually willing to do to make that a reality? What am I willing to do that? What are the things I'm actually willing to do to make that a reality? What am I willing to do to open that heart again and get vulnerable? Am I willing to cry in front of that teacher? Am I willing to take responsibility for my reactivity? And what are the steps that I'm willing to do to show that I'm willing to take?
Speaker 2:those risks. So you must be a fan of pauses or timeouts until you are ready. That's true For sure.
Speaker 3:My husband and I have a practice where we like, okay, I'm triggered and I'm not available, great, great so. And he has practices that he does to get himself back available and I have practices that I do to get me back available. And then we have an agreement around. We have a pre-agreed agreement, we already know, yeah. So it's like a good 20 minutes we'll come back together and if in those 20 minutes we're not quite ready, we go. I'm not ready, it needs to be tomorrow or whatever it is. But we've come up with these agreements outside of the conflict so that when the conflict happens it's already mapped out. We don't have to think about it. I love that.
Speaker 1:This is so just insightful, anne-marie. This is so helpful. I'm curious about generational patterns. I think more people than we probably even realize, you know, have these generational patterns. It's how we're raised, it's what we see, it's what we're used to, we hear we're around all the time growing up. So how can someone recognize when they're repeating these old patterns and start doing something different, almost because they don't even realize it's all they've ever known? Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm just laughing because I'm thinking like to anyone listening in and to you guys. I'm sure your spouse or your significant other has said to you at some point you're just like your mother, and it's true. This is an acceptance piece again, you know, we don't just inherit our eye color and our hair color and our height and all that from our parents. We inherit patterns. They're literally, you know, wired into our genetics, into our DNA, and you know my mother inherited her patterns from her mother and her father and so on. So, you know, the more we can accept the isness of that and allow that to be true and then not get upset by that, just like, yes, it's true I get defensive when this happens, or, yes, it's true that I'm controlling, just like my mother was.
Speaker 3:We come at these things so honestly, we're just mirroring or mimicking what we learned as children and you know children, that's what they do. I just spent the weekend with my grandchildren and you know I would do one thing and then my granddaughter would do the exact same thing and I'd be like this is how it goes. They learn from us. They're watching us. We repeat these patterns. They learn from us. They're watching us, we repeat these patterns and I tell my kids, who are now young adults and they're seeing the ways they're like their dad and I and some of the things they like and some of the things they don't like so much.
Speaker 3:Excuse me, I got a little frog in my throat and I say you know, these are just gifts and opportunities. I've done the best I could to heal the patterns of the past that I've inherited from my parents and you're going to be left with some other things and it's just part of the job. It's like cleaning the planet. We've got stuff we need to clean up and you can be upset by it or you can embrace it as a portal to deeper learning and a portal to connection. And yeah, that's just the way I look at it. Did I answer that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you did, and I would love to hear even more. We'll be right back after this brief message and we're back, let's dive right in. We already have a success story, an example. You know, a client or something, of course without names, of someone that you're able to help kind of see the light, I guess, and become that, that authentic, you know self, where they're more aware. I guess?
Speaker 3:Yeah, gosh, so many. And what's interesting? Back to the question about women, because this comes up with the women I'm working with a lot and the men I mean, it's just so, we're just doing what our parents do. But one story comes to mind is working with a family system I was working with recently and this family system struggles with getting out the door in time and their kids are still little. They're teens, but young teens, and the father was raised in a very strict family upbringing where, you know, the father was in control and in charge and he did. He does things in a particular way and you do as you say, not as you do. And then the mother was raised a little bit differently and so getting out the door is a struggle for them and he's noticing how he is treating his sons, the way his father treated him, and he doesn't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 3:But he has the intellectual capacity to understand what he's doing, but he has not yet developed the skills to stop it, because it's so innate, these belief systems around, you know, kids should be seen and not heard, kids should do as I say and not as I do, and all these belief systems that generations have inherited and the kids, meanwhile, are 10 years old and of course they're throwing their shoes and throwing a football and wanting to play, and that is not acceptable behavior. So how that manifests then in the marriage is the couple starts to get into conflict because her belief systems aren't aligned with his belief systems. They get into conflict and then it's 8 am and everyone is in a giant struggle before they've even started their day, and everyone is in a giant struggle before they even started their day, and it's creating a lot of disconnection in the family. And so we're really working on, like how can he connect to the part of himself that wasn't nurtured as a child, that wasn't allowed to be a kid, when he was a kid and he grew up with this belief system that you know you should listen. You know how many times I've heard that so many times in my life. Kids should listen to the adults, and it's really not always reasonable, right?
Speaker 3:So dismantling that belief that he inherited so that he can be present in the moment and available to what is, is, ironically, the solution to getting out the door in time, because the less conflict there is, the more spaciousness there is to be with what is and the more freedom there is. And when there's more freedom in the system there's more air. And when the kids feel free they're way more likely to cooperate. When you know the couple doesn't feel like they're in this angst and they feel more open and freer, they're more likely to feel connected and work as a team. That's just a tiny example, dave. I hope that helps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very helpful.
Speaker 3:It's just a real life example of you. Know, that's the way I was raised. I was raised like you listen to your parents and you do as they say and you have no say.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Super helpful, thank you.
Speaker 2:Kids should be seen and not heard. Right, that's another one.
Speaker 3:I had to work that one out with my kids because I could feel I'd parented my kids that way for sure.
Speaker 2:I get it.
Speaker 3:And it didn't work for them.
Speaker 2:Really. How about that? What's wrong with them? What advice do you have, anne-marie, as we start to wrap up here a bit, to women who feel stuck in a cycle of conflict with their partners and they just want to feel more peace and more connection in marriage? Yeah, quick recipe for us.
Speaker 3:I mean, raise your hand if you're listening in, and that's you, because that's pretty much almost everyone, all of us, right? We're all in that place. I mean, we all want more connection and none of us know how to get it. How to get it. What's my quick advice, gosh?
Speaker 3:I think the quick piece of advice that I think is the most helpful and probably the trickiest one is connection starts with connecting to yourself so you can master this skill of nurturing your own self and staying connected to yourself, the thing we want to feel when actually we can create that safety, that security, that love in ourselves. And then, when we're coming from that place, we're first of all a magnet for others, because when you're in this beautiful space of unconditional love for self, others want to step into that. They're like I want some of that. Tell me how to get that. What's that? That feels good over there, right, and and we don't actually need anything from from anyone else but we create a space for others to step in.
Speaker 3:And I think, you know, to a woman this might seem a little bias and I'm open to anyone arguing with me, but women are nurturers, right, we nurture, and I always say that women are like mothers. Whether you mother a child, you're mothering in some way or another, and to mother is to nurture one back to its true self. And our true self is wholeness and unconditional love. And if we can, you know, if we can get really good at nurturing ourselves back to unconditional love for ourselves, then it's easier to create connection with others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well said. Well, Emery, as we wrap up our time together, we'd like to ask all of our guests guests this next question. And then, that is, as we wrap up our time together, we'd like to ask all of our guests this next question. And that is what do you feel like is the key? There are probably many keys, right, but what is a key to a stronger marriage connection in your mind?
Speaker 3:Accepting your humanity, like accepting your own humanity and then accepting your partner's humanity. I think, like you said, there's a lot of keys, but for me lately that's been the big one Like just accepting I'm an imperfect human, just plugging them along, trying to figure this thing called life out. It's not easy and really, yeah, accepting the vulnerability of being human.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love it, thank you.
Speaker 2:And where can our listeners, my friend, find out more about you, including your bestselling book, the Perfectly Imperfect Family what a great title. And any other resources you have to share, please?
Speaker 3:Yeah, a great place to start is my website. It's annemariechiresome, which I'm sure you'll put in your show notes, because no one's able to spell that off the top of their head, and you can get all my free goodies there and links to everything there.
Speaker 2:Nice. Thank you for that. How generous are you. That's wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you said for our listeners in the show notes, so go check out those links that we'll insert there. Hey, at the conclusion of today, Anne-Marie, we like to wrap up with a takeaway of the day, just a take home message you hope our listeners will remember from our discussion today.
Speaker 3:What would that be? The one that's popping up? You told me you were going to ask this and I had a different one, but this one's popping up, I'm going to go with it. It's really mind your heart, right? So pay attention to how open your heart is and remember to ask yourself is my heart open or closed right now?
Speaker 1:And be honest. Yeah, that's great, Liz. What about you? What closed right now? And be honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, liz. What about you? What's your takeaway? I loved all this, right, I loved Anne-Marie how you most, excuse me, recently just said, connection begins with me, right, it starts here and being here now in a very nonjudgmental way, probably nonjudgmental towards self as well as towards other. Yeah, it's beautiful. What about you, dave? What's the rich nugget you hope to remember from our time together today with Anne-Marie Toresso?
Speaker 1:Yeah, anne-marie, this has been great. I'm actually anxious to get to re-listen to this episode, really soak in and actually take more notes as I listen to this next round. I love the question yeah, where am I? It's just that question in so many ways right, where am I, kind of emotionally, where am I in the relationship? Where am I paying attention right now? All those types of things.
Speaker 1:You mentioned a couple of phrases that I had never heard. One of those is radical responsibility, emery. I love that term. We do, we have this radical responsibility. And then you mentioned, I think you call this false sense of safety kind of when we're in that protective mode and the fear versus the trust because it is, it doesn't work. But it is this false sense of safety which is one of our core needs, right Of this feeling safe. And so I think, yes, if people just understand that that's actually normal right To be in that kind of protective, if people just understand that that's actually normal right To be in that kind of protective when I feel like when there's a threat, it's you're going to put your hands up, but but just being aware of that, being consciously aware, instead of just automatically going yeah To where the pattern, the unhealthy pattern perhaps, has always gone. We can break those, but it starts getting our hearts right and paying, paying attention. So, uh, love it and, marie, um, any final words? Any your thoughts on on today?
Speaker 3:Um, I just really enjoyed you guys and it was. I love it and I love getting the reflections back because I'm in it as I'm talking. So I really appreciated that reflection and, yeah, thank you for what you do and thanks for having me. It was really, really a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks again for making time for us and our listeners. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time on another episode of Stronger Marriage Connection podcast.
Speaker 2:And remember it's the small things that create a stronger marriage connection. See you next time.
Speaker 4:Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at Stronger Marriage Life, and Facebook at Stronger Marriage, so be sure to share with us which topics you loved or which guests we should have on the show. Next, if you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit StrongerMarriageorg, where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.