Stronger Marriage Connection
It's often said that marriage takes work. The Stronger Marriage Connection podcast wants to help because a happy marriage is worth the effort. USU Family Life Professor Dr. Dave Schramm and Clinical Psychologist Dr. Liz Hale talk with experts about the principles and practices that will enhance your commitment, compassion, and emotional connection.
More than ever before, marriages face obstacles, from the busyness of work and daily hassles to disagreements and digital distractions. It's no wonder couples sometimes drift apart, growing resentful, lonely, and isolated.
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Stronger Marriage Connection
Life and Dating After Divorce | Amber Anderson | #150
A tender, practical look at life after divorce: how to co‑parent without drama, date with intention as a single parent, and rebuild a calm family system where kids feel safe and seen. Amber shares the habits, boundaries, and mindset shifts that turned conflict into cooperation.
• early marriage, cross‑state moves, new parent stress
• choosing divorce to model a healthy life for children
• co‑parenting routines that remove contention
• group texting with ex and step‑parent for transparency
• “kids‑only” communication and gray rocking
• dating with intention and keeping a values list
• pacing introductions and honoring kids’ timelines
• therapy, accountability friends, and honest feedback
• books that support self‑trust and discernment
• hard conversations as the key to real connection
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Dr. Dave Schramm:
Dr. Liz Hale:
On today's episode of Stronger Marriage Connection, Dr. Liz sits down with Amber Anderson, who opens up about her journey through a painful divorce and the lessons she's learned along the way. Amber shares how she found hope while navigating the challenges of co-parenting and re entering the world of dating as a single mom. She offers heartfelt insights and practical advice on moving forward with intention, facing fears, and balancing the demands of raising kids while dating. You'll hear how Amber approaches dating differently than when she was single, and what she's learning about resilience, connection, and growth in this new chapter of life. Amber Anderson is a single mom of two, a full-time certified occupational therapy assistant, and the founder of Movement and In-Home Safety Advocates. She recently launched her own business as an exercise coach for the geriatric population, all while staying deeply involved in her daughters' lives, whether it's coaching soccer or cheering from the sidelines. Amber loves learning, growing, and embracing new experiences from exploring restaurants and outdoor adventures to nurturing close connections with family and friends. Her passion lies in balancing her role as a devoted mom with her drive to live fully and model resilience for her girls. We hope you enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. I'm Dr. Liz Hale, along with the beloved professor, Dr. Dave Schram. And together we have dedicated our life's work to bringing you the best we have in valid marital research, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. We're so happy to have you here today. Dave is going to join us next time, but for today, let's talk about life after divorce. That can be a time of rediscovery, new beginnings, tough times, even unexpected joy. It's a chance to grow and redefine what you want and open the door to other meaningful connections. Here to share her inspiring journey of hope, resilience, and dating after divorce is Amber Anderson. Welcome to the show, Amber. Hi, thank you so much for having me. This is generous to really give us an inside scoop into your family of two daughters and you've been divorced four years, I understand. Yeah. And tell us a little bit more about your background, my friend, like where you're from or where you've lived, your marriage and divorce story, and how your children factored and how your children factored into your decisions along the way.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, yeah. So I was born and raised here in Cache Valley. I got married when I was 20 years old, and we immediately moved to Washington State, which was fantastic in a lot of ways. We were able to kind of pick up and move and start our own life somewhere else and somewhere new. And soon after that, we moved again to the East Bay area in California, where we absolutely loved it out there in Pleasanton, California, made some great friends and great memories. But I had only had an associate's degree. And so I knew I needed to continue my education. I looked at options in California. It was just so expensive to go to school out there, and we weren't able to afford me not working and going to school. So we came back to Utah where my credits would transfer, and that's where I found the Occupational Therapy Assistant Program at Salt Lake Community College, which was a fantastic program. I loved it. Um, graduated from that in 2015 and moved right back out to California because we knew we loved California. Found out I was pregnant right after that. We had our first daughter out there, and life was hard. We were both working full-time, and you know, bless my oldest heart. She was a really hard baby. So taking her to daycare, I would have to leave work to go and nurse her. She wouldn't ever take a bottle. It was very hard. We struggled with that. And around the same time, excuse me, around the same time, my ex-husband wanted to um change careers. And so we made the move back to Utah where we had family close by. Um, and so there was a lot of moving around within the first few years of our marriage. But truly, you know, we look back and we both loved that experience. We got to meet a lot of new people and experienced new things along the way. Um, had our second daughter, you know, two and a half years later, and you know, still living in Cash Valley. So we've been back here in Cash Valley for nine years. Um, like I said, I got my degree as an occupational therapy assistant from Slick in 2015, and I've been working in that field with the geriatric population for 10 years, and I absolutely love it. Um, I got divorced four years ago, and you know, making that decision was very, very hard. Me and my ex were very successful in a lot of ways in our marriage, and then obviously there were some parts that just weren't as successful. Uh, I was actually reading a book last night, and a line in it was it was actually it's just a for fun book, but a line just said, you know, this couple were they were having a hard time, and they said, What happened? And it's like, you know, 10 years ago we were different people and we're not the same people we were 10 years ago. And do we like who we are now? And I think that's kind of just, you know, without getting into the details of everything, you know, we had both kind of changed and we had both grown, and you know, some for the better, and some was hard. We didn't match up on some things, and you know, along with other things, we decided that, you know, divorce was the route we were going. However, that wasn't an easy decision to make. Um, that we had two kids, and you know, all you hear about is how divorce just ruins children, and it was very hard to think about do I want to go through that and put my kids through that. But ultimately, I knew for me, the best way for me to be the best mom to my girls was to get a divorce. And that might sound crazy to some people, and you know, I never got married thinking I would ever get divorced. I don't think anybody does or anybody wants to. But I knew that I wanted to show my girls, you know, a happy, good, healthy relationship and to not murder myself for just them staying in the marriage. You know, I wanted to see, I wanted them to see their mom thriving and being happy and then enjoying her life as well as being a wonderful mother to them, to give them an example to look forward to and look up to. So when it comes time for them dating and marrying, they have a wonderful example to look forward to.
SPEAKER_01:So a lot of your inspiration really was your two daughters. You right? You you want the the world for them. Because you're you're right, Amber. There is there's plenty of research that shows that marriage is hard. It's hard on adults, it's hard on families, it's hard on the system, the family system. It it is not easy. I love your determination, however, that we're going to make sure that this is a different storyline. We're gonna do everything in our power. And it sounds like you and your ex-husband have really been very determined in that. He recently got married, I understand, this year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he got married earlier this year, and she is wonderful. I've I've told her personally, I said, you know, I couldn't have asked for a better stepmom for my kids. You know, I I really love her and appreciate her, and and I hope that I uh, you know, uh let her know that often and really just everything she does. And we've actually it's been really beautiful, honestly, because like you mentioned, I was determined if I am going to get divorced, I will make sure that my kids do not suffer um, you know, in any more ways than they they will just from the matter of having two hums. So that was a lot to take on. Uh, you know, a lot of times holding my tongue or him, I'm sure he held his tongue at times too. And truthfully, it wasn't just me that made, you know, divorce and co-parenting and this relationship we have now wasn't just me. It's not one-sided. It was him and it was me. And we both decided that our girls were the number one. You know, we will do whatever we need to to make sure our girls are happy and safe and loved and cared for. And so, yes, we would, you know, on the sidelines be having these, you know, conversations or disagreements, but we never let the kids know. The kids were never involved. You know, we always exchanged the kids at each other's houses. It wasn't like this, you know, third party or you know, parking lot, or I'm not going in to see your father. Like it was very much just, yes, I will go in. There was a lot of my girls even asking, do you still love dad? You know, even though you're not married, do you still love him? And they're asked, they need that, you know, and of course it's I will always love your dad. He's your dad, you know, like I will always love him as your father. And that comforted them so much to know that and to feel that. And even though it may have been hard and and maybe awkward or uncomfortable just to be like, you know, these are the things we're talking about, it was needed. So, yes, he got remarried and it has been so great. You know, we have a group text with me and my ex-husband and his wife where we all communicate about the kids, you know, hey, this is what's going on. Hey, this happened. How do we, you know, talk to the girls about this? How are we gonna manage this? Hey, we've got one thing. Can you help with one thing? It really truly is has been such a blessing to have seeing the fruit of our labors, you know, pay out.
SPEAKER_01:It's Amber, that is something. And you know how unusual this is. Yes?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I yes, I do because everyone I tell they have that same reaction. They're like, this is not the norm. You know, we'll even all even um beow and you know, somebody else will have a divorce and they'll be talking like, how do you how do you do that? How do you get along? Like, how can you say nice things about your ex? You know, because sometimes people just want to, you know, say the negative and you know, have the will, but you know, honestly, it comes down to just the kids, and I think we've both just like I said put them first. And I don't ever want my kids to think that I don't like their dad, and I'm sure he feels the same way.
SPEAKER_01:And so I can appreciate what that means to them. Because isn't it really it's contention that hurts kids the most, right? Isn't that what kills children's hearts and adults' hearts too? So, you know, good on you and your ex-husband and his new wife that there is this agreement, this determination to not have any contention. Have you have you looked back, Amber, divorced four years ago? Did you what was it like initially? Is it hard? Did you regret your decision ever look back, wondering maybe I need to step back here?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, those are fantastic questions and yes to everything. Um, you know, for me, I was the one who ultimately was like, yes, I want a divorce. And with that came a lot of second guessing. And and what did I, what decision did I make, and what does that mean? And what does that look like going forward? I there were there were many times there were, especially, I would say within the first year or two that I would question my decision and ultimately I would have to really lean on, you know, therapy, like going to therapy, reading any books, talking to my friends and family to help figure out what I was feeling and why. And a lot of times, you know, you would hear you romanticize experiences or relationships in the past, and I did that a lot. Um, and it's but also, you know, that is very hard. I I used to tell my friends because you make a wonderful group of divorced community up here, and it's been that was very awesome to have in the first year of being divorced. You meet so many people and you're talking, sharing experiences, and it was just like they were like, How do you not hate your ex? You know, we all hate our exes. And I said, Well, I don't hate my ex-husband, he's great in a lot of ways, and um, but also it makes it harder, you know, that decision and handling your decision to get divorced. It is a lot harder to work through post-divorce if you don't hate somebody. You know, if you have that that disgust or that hate and that, you know, you don't even want to see him or talk to him, it's a lot easier. Maybe, I don't know, maybe I would think just forget it, put it away, never deal with it. But for me, it would always creep up, right? You see the good things, you remember the good things, you see them being a good dad to your girls and really stepping to the occasion. And those things are wonderful, but hard to see. And so a lot for me in the first year was distraction. I can look back and see that it was distraction. I was very busy, you know. I during that period I had my kids 70% of the time. Now we're a 50 split. Um, and that was just because he's a firefighter and his schedule is, you know, you know, two on, four off. And so I had kind of said, hey, look, I'll let's just do one week on, one week off, and I'll take the girls, you know, when you're at the station. It wasn't because he didn't want them, you know, as much time. And so after a while, we're like, this isn't really working for either of us. Let's let's truly make this a 50-50. But so that first year, I was very busy single moming, and that was hard and exhausting. And I just remember bedtime was just incredibly hard. They were five and three. And so, you know, maybe I should have had a more strict bedtime routine. I don't know. I was just bedtime, was just if I could get through it, that was the best thing. But on my time when I didn't have my girls, I mean, I would be gone. I would I was working full time. So I'd be leave, go to work, and then after work, I was either going to the gym and then going rock climbing and then going out with friends, you know, each of those days I didn't have my my girls. I wanted to meet more people. I wanted to do the things that brought me joy and made me who I am, which I'm grateful for that first year of doing all those things. And it really built who I am or rebuilt who I was. I feel like I kind of lost myself in my marriage. And so it was a very much a year of distraction, but very much a year of growth and learning who I am and what I love and enjoy.
SPEAKER_01:So today, today, do you look back? Any regrets today?
SPEAKER_00:No, I don't have any regrets because there were things I did that I'm like, oh, I don't know if I'm like proud of that, you know, I don't know if I love that I did that, but I don't regret it because it shaped me and I took it and I would mold it into something like, how can I learn from that? You know, how can I learn from that experience? How can I learn from that, you know, mistake that I made? And, you know, I think if I really regretted things, that would be hard. I think if there ever was something that I felt like I regretted, I would try to figure out a way to mend it, you know, to to make it right, or I don't know, heal from that and move forward and use that experience to help somebody else too.
SPEAKER_02:We'll be right back after this brief minutes. And we're back. Let's dive right in.
SPEAKER_01:We hate our ex. And uh any advice for those really wanting to do something to navigate a similar situation like you and your ex-husband have? Um, I should show you, I could use his first name. What's his first name? Justin. Justin. So Amber and Justin have this beautiful co-parenting connection. And what what what does it take? What's it take?
SPEAKER_00:That's a huge question. I think it takes a lot of self sacrifice, um, putting you know your ego aside a lot. Um, patience, having patience with, you know, the other party and with yourself. Um I think a big thing is having boundaries, making sure you set boundaries with somebody because it's not easy. And I'm sure it's either you or the other person is doing something that infringes upon their boundaries and you're trying to get them, right? You want them to react a certain way, you want them to respond a certain way. And for the other party to, I think it's like gray rocking, is that right? Where you kind of step back and you give them no response. There's nothing there, you know, whether it's not answering the text or the calls or reacting in a certain way when you know they're trying to get at you, is just to press pause, take a few deep breaths. You don't have to answer the phone call, you don't have to answer that text, you don't even have to answer that text message tomorrow. You just cannot answer it. I always say, you know, unless it pertains to the kids, like, don't answer. Like they may have said something really mean to you. Like, and I've told my friends, don't reply to that text message. Like they're just trying, they're angry, they're upset, they're just trying to get at you.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's a good question, then Amber. Do you try to make the correspondence sim just about the kids? About kids only.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I would say that has been, you know, our relationship, co-parenting relationship has been a lot of we just communicate about the kids. You know, we don't have these long drawn-out conversations of trying to like talk about things or or fix things or um, especially in the beginning. You know, that was that was hard. That's where we really had to set boundaries on that. But it was just about the kids, and it was always meaningful because it was about the children. Now it's very nice actually, because we attend our child's, our children's extracurriculars, and we all sit by each other. Usually it's like my parents, him and his wife, me, and you know, everyone else who's there, you know, my boyfriend who is there, and we all sit by each other. You know, we're not separated, we're all like plumped together, and everyone is talking. And so now, yes, like when we're around each other, we will talk about other things. Oh, hey, you started this business. Oh, hey, how's your business going? Oh, did you see, you know, X, Y, and Z, or we talk about mutual friends. It's very nice to actually now we've built a friendship, but in the beginning, it was just the kids. Um, and I think that was beneficial. So that's what I would kind of say is having those boundaries, knowing your self-worth and having respect for yourself, knowing that, you know, if you say something or they say something that comes out of hurt or pain, um, give that other person some space. Because I know, you know, there's been times where I've done or said things that I wish I could take back, and I, you know, don't didn't like how that went. And it's almost better if the other person doesn't respond, you know, to kind of give that space to me to be like, you know, she's hurting, she's feeling this. I'm gonna let her feel that. And we can just let that kind of go to the side. And we don't need to address it, we don't need to bring it up. We can just accept it. We don't have to take it in. We can just to the side and let it pass.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. That's a good behavior tactic, really, for any relationship, even in marriage. Yeah. Those are pretty good things. I I, you know, I believe you when you say that you've you've learned so much. You know, I think we all tend to have regrets. I think it's hard to do life without regrets, but nothing is ever wasted. Everything teaches us. Yeah, it defines us, refines us, helps us become the people I think that we could be more proud of.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And I think that's a key to anyone growing and progressing in life or whatever the situation is, is that you take those experiences and you learn something from it. You know, I know for me, you know, pertaining to dating, I would keep a log of the people I had dated, and I would write down things that I loved about them and things that I didn't. And then I knew, you know, when I was dating somebody else, I would go back and I would cross-check. And that that might sound silly, but it kept me moving forward in a place that I wanted to and kind of like my eyes on the prize, right? I didn't forget these were things I didn't like. These were things I loved. I definitely want someone that has these qualities. I definitely don't want these qualities. And like I said, as silly as that might sound, I remember narrowing it down and narrowing it down. And and I remember turning to my coworker one one day and I said, Zach, I am so close. I am so close to finding my person because this is my list. And I I almost, I'm almost there, you know, like everyone kept gaining more of the things I wanted and less of things I didn't. And um, and I was right, you know, like now I'm in a wonderful relationship with my boyfriend. It's been a year and a half, and he possessed, you know, everything I wanted and some things that I didn't know that I wanted. And he comes with different things that aren't hard. They're not hard, they're just different that make me grow and stretch in ways that I needed to grow and stretch. And it's just been such a journey, you know, going there.
SPEAKER_01:Dating today, dating now versus dating when you were with without children, right? When you were younger and marrying for the first time, how how clearly it's you know, definitely different, right? For starters, you're thinking of these two girls and what's best for them, as well as what's best for your heart. It's a whole nother dynamic.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Um, you know, putting my kids first and everything. Of course, in their beginning, we had a lot of me and my ex Justin, we had boundaries of, you know, at what point do you introduce the girls to, you know, a significant other? And I think that really helped. And it made us really think intentionally about what our own intentions were with dating. So, you know, that was always there, keeping that in mind. For me, with dating, you know, especially now, I will say my boyfriend, he it's been a beautiful journey, you know, watching him connect to my girls on his own terms and his own timeline. But better, my girl is loving him on their own timeline. I never pressured either one of them. I never forced them in situations or or forced them to, you know, really enjoy each other's company or want to spend time together. It was very much uh, we're just gonna present these two parties, and I'm in the middle, and I just let them decide where they're at. And there's been some really fun moments of my girls, you know, you know, my boyfriend Brian wouldn't be there, and they'd be like, We we like Brian. And I, instead of being like, Oh, I know, isn't he the best? You know, I would say, you do? How come? Like, why? And they would not Brian. Yeah, and they would answer with why they liked him. Um, also that might sound kind of silly, but I've done that a lot. I've really questioned them instead of just steamroll it and and take off with it, whatever they're saying. I really say, well, how come? Why do you think that? You know, why do you think Brian's a good boyfriend to me? Why are you why do you say that? You know, what are you seeing? And I I it makes me happy as you know, a mother to know, you know, at least I hope that I am setting a good example to them and letting them have a choice in the matter. I think that's hard when kids, you know, don't have a choice in the matter, it because it is their life 100%. You know, this would be someone who's in their life all the time, and let them grow and want that, you know, it's it's a beautiful thing, but it's been a patient thing.
SPEAKER_01:Kids really they don't have a ton of choices, do they? I mean, they are kind of along for the ride with their parents, hopefully making the best decisions in their lives, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and they're so wonderful, and I just love love them so much. And I think the once again to point back on what you're saying, how is it different? Is that my goals dating, you know, before marriage and now was that, you know, before I was I was young, I was 20 when I got married, and so dating, you know, I was 19 years old, and I thought I can't wait to get married and build a life with this person. And that included for me, I wanted to have kids, you know, I wanted to gain a career and establish a career and buy a home. And these were all like check boxes that I had. And so now I sit here dating and I'm like, okay, well, I have kids, I have my daughters, you know, I have a career, you know, I have a home. And what else is there? You know, so dating now is really you're choosing someone. And yes, marriage should also be a choice of who you want to choose to spend the rest of your life with. But for me, it's really almost weighed heavily on me because it seems like a much more serious question of choosing someone that I truly want to just share my life with because I don't have these, like this naivety of, you know, who knows what it's gonna be like. You know, it's marriage, it doesn't have that, you know, secrecy to it anymore. You know, you've been there, you've done that, you've I mean I've checked all those boxes that I've had. So now I'm really dating for someone I want to spend my life with and love and enjoy and want to share all of those things, knowing that there will be hard times and there will be hard things. And how do you know like you're gonna stick with that, push through that, use everything I've learned, all the tools, all the resources to make it last and be better, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Do you uh plan on more children? Would you like more children? Is Justin planning on more children?
SPEAKER_00:I I don't know about Justin. Um, I I think my girls, my girls would love more siblings. I I know that they tell their stepmom um all the time that they want, you know, her to have a baby. They tell me all the time they want me to have another baby, or five. I think the other day my daughter said she wanted eight more siblings. Um which is still great. I love that they feel like they want to have more siblings. I think that means we're doing something right. You know, four years ago when I got divorced, I did. I did want to have more kids. And now dating, um, I'm with my boyfriend. He's never been married, he has no kids, and uh, I'm just am getting older. I think, you know, every year, I'm getting older, and my kids are getting older. My youngest is seven. I I don't know what that looks like. I don't want it's not at the top of my list anymore. I don't want to say I don't want to have kids, it's not at the top of my list. If me and my boyfriend end getting married and he decides that he would like to have a child, then I would happily have one. However, blending families, I've heard, is just incredibly difficult and hard and challenging, but also so rewarding. Um, you know, where he doesn't have kids and I have two. He said, you know, I've wanted kids, but you have two, and that is great for me. And so you're on the same page here where it really makes sense for us, but you know, it's not in the immediate cards. So and they just take it situation by situation, and it's molded, of course, because I have dated people who have had kids, and I was happy to bring them in, you know, and I think that's that is a good thing to have was that I was flexible in knowing, you know, what that future might look like on the kid realm, you know, marrying someone who has kids, wanting more kids, or not. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Do you have some people who question your decision to to date, to be divorced, raising young children, and dating? My my reason I ask is my very dear friend divorced, has four boys, all getting older now, two are in college. Um, but her neighbor really, really gave her a bad time when she announced that she'd found a special guy. Actually, someone from from long ago that she dated and they reconnected 20 years later. And um, it really it really caused some alarm from my dear friend. And she thought, oh my gosh, people, you know, I think it's the doctor, the Dr. Laura principle, right? Of staying single and raising your children until you uh until they're out of the house. Have you have you had support? Have you had a lack of support, Amber? Both?
SPEAKER_00:I have had tremendous support. I feel like I have the best family and the best friends who also keep me sane. They keep me honest. You know, they I tell them all the time, I'm gonna tell you the good and the hard with anyone I'm dating because I I need somebody else to know the truth, the whole truth, and not have those rose-colored glasses on all the time. And, you know, my like I said, my friends and family have been supportive from the very beginning. Um, there are other people, you know, definitely, who have been like, I would never date, I don't know how you're doing this, I don't know why you would, you know, that's gonna be so hard for your kids, or I don't know why you would date somebody who has kids. I don't know why you would date someone who doesn't have kids. There are those people who say that. And they they're all over the board. And I think the biggest thing for me was like I Said having that great support system of the people in my life that have helped keep me accountable and keep me progressing forward and help m help me make good decisions. I remember being in therapy and I was really frustrated, honestly, that the therapist wasn't telling me what I should do. I was like, Can't you just tell me what to do? I just tell you're the professional here. And they said, I will never tell you what to do. That is up to you. Like I will help have these conversations and help guide and ask you questions, but ultimately you make those choices. And I was like, like, seriously? You know, like I I have to make my own choices. And truly knowing that, like I will talk to friends and family, but at the end of the day, I get to choose, you know, I get to choose what my life looks like. And but having those people who will hold you accountable is key, I think. And so I never questioned what I was doing, why I was wanting to date and remarry. I never questioned that because I had the great support system who would keep me in check. And I I hope everyone can have that. And I think a big thing of that is being open to hearing something you might not want to hear. I've had friends or family say, I don't like them. I don't think they're good for you. I don't like that they did this and this and this. And I have to take a step back and say, I understand. I think you're right, you know, but I and there were times I'm gonna give them one more chance. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna give them one more chance. And I usually did give them one more chance because this whole process of dating after divorce was learning how patient can you be, how forgiving can you be, how much grace can you give. And those things for sure 100%, especially in the beginning, I gave way too much grace, way too forgiving, and you kind of have to like tailor it in to find out where where is that line, you know. You can't let somebody just get away with everything, but you also need to be able to forgive and understand the situation. And I mean, there's so much to it, but have good people.
SPEAKER_01:Hope you write a book, Amber.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I honestly I would love to. I truly have thought about that for many years, and I would love to do that, and I'll put it on my list. Yeah, good. You see, put it on your long list.
SPEAKER_01:Um speaking of books, was there anything that helped you most on this particular journey?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I read a couple of books. I, of course, would read any sort of article, psychology article I could find online, just anything. And and you have to be careful with those, I know, and take beats bits and pieces here and there. But some books I read were was actually one called Untamed by Glennon Doyle. And I loved that one because it really helped me step into me as my own person and honoring myself and my passions and really encouraged me to live for my girls, you know, live for them. I want to show them an example that they admire and want to be when they grow up and not someone who just puts their needs to the side and does everything for my kids. Yes, I do so much for my kids. I love being involved in my kids' lives, and that is a passion. They are my passion. But also, do I love to rock climb or mountain bike or play soccer or be with my friends and have good friends that I love spending time with? And I think all those things are so important for my kids to see in their mom. Absolutely. You know, absolutely 100%. They need to see their mom having fun, taking risks, being brave, going on vacations. So they have this, you know, ideal of a life that they want to have while they can also be in a loving relationship and have kids, you know. And so I, you know, that was a wonderful book. Another one is how to not fall in love with a jerk. I think that's the title. That one is a very uh good just pick up and read. Um, it kind of like I said, keeps me in check, you know, reading and be like, oh, am I seeing any of these things in myself? Not only in the person you're dating, but are keeping yourself, are you introspective enough to look and be like, oh, I do that and I don't like that. How do I fix it? You know, so that's a fantastic book of like checks and balances to not link. Yeah, it's fantastic. I just pick it up and flipped any page and read it, and you're gonna gather something better.
SPEAKER_01:Get a nugget, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, and then the older one I actually haven't read, but I've talked to a lot of friends about, and I it's on my list to read was The Body Keeps the Score. And I think, you know, having not read that, but I've read, you know, know what it's about, and I've talked to people and read little excerpts from it, is that it is so true and very sad. There have been a lot of moments where it is really sad how your body reacts so fiercely to something when you don't really want it to, but it does. And how do you combat that and address it and learn from it and work through it and prevent it from happening again, you know, is a lot of that work on yourself. So I've done a lot of that. There's been a lot of times where I've had to really check myself and see why I'm reacting that way and explain thoroughly to the person that I'm dating, like why I'm reacting the way I am, and I don't like it, but this is why. I know I need to fix it, I need to work on it, but just have patience with me and I will do better.
SPEAKER_02:We'll be right back after this brief message. And we're back. Let's dive right in.
SPEAKER_01:It's such beautiful ownership. Do you find that you're meeting men who are also doing the work, you know, on themselves? I would imagine that could be a deal breaker or a deal maker.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um it was hard. It was really hard. I feel like um I'm such a thinker and I'm such a like I want to figure out why. And so I do a lot of work on myself and a lot of introspection and a lot of willing to talk to my friends and hear the things I don't want to hear. I would say in my experience, most people are not like that. Um, you know, a lot of people get very defensive, you know, a lot of people just have their justifications, or a lot of people might say, well, you get what you get. Like, you know, I've this is who I am, this is how it's gonna be. I don't think it's wrong. You should probably deal with it. You know, I I've count encountered a lot of that. Uh, that's not to say everyone was like that. I did also date and meet a lot of great guys who I learned so much from and really took a lot of those key things I wanted in my person and put them on that list because they were so wonderful. And there were some very patient and loving and generous and mild-tempered things that and willingness to hear something that they might not want to hear and to do better. And so, yeah, I would say there was both. And it's a it's tremendous when you can find somebody who does react that way and shares the same beliefs.
SPEAKER_01:I just think I have such a tender spot for singles because I was one for many decades. I didn't marry till 50. And um I think that we we do have a responsibility to each other in the dating world to be good to each other, to be honest, and to lead each other maybe a little bit better than we found each other.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's my friend's favorite line. She's also single, and that's her favorite thing. You always leave someone better than you found them, and also yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. I love it. All right, my friend. Well, you're all over social media. Amber, you offer different coaching options and you have resources. Tell us a bit about those and where people can find you and learn about what you offer.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I'm I just have a personal Instagram account, you know, Amber Anderson, but I also started a side business where I do actually home exercise for the geriatric population, um, which is move safe advocates. I don't have anything for, you know, live coaching or post-divorce. However, like I said, I would love to be able to get into any of that or write a book someday, and I guess just keep your ears open for maybe the day that that comes through.
SPEAKER_01:I we're cheering you on. I hope that for you, Justin, this beautiful bride, and others that will be joining this clan, however, um, that you continue to do so well together and have this joint effort and put these children first. It's really quite lovely. We don't know what's around the corner, right? None of us do.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:But you you are determined enough to make sure that things stay truly steady and kind and graceful and forgiving. I I love that. We love to um ask all of our guests as we wrap up one particular question and honor the name of our podcast. What do you think, Amber, is the key to a stronger marriage connection?
SPEAKER_00:I think, in hopes of everything I've learned so far, is being able to have the hard talks. You know, I didn't really bring that up, but having the hard talks with somebody, something that is on your mind that is causing you some anxiety, you just gotta have that talk. You just gotta hit it head on. You gotta sit down and say, hey, look, here's what I'm feeling. I found the best way to address things and issues and relationships is to say, hey, this is how I've been feeling. This is why I think I'm feeling this way. This is why I do feel this way, this is what I'm gathering from you. Can you please tell me what's going on? You know, I think having the hard talks, just let them feel safe opening up to you because I think a lot of us will get defensive. We don't want to be wrong or we don't want to have hurt somebody. Um, but if you have an issue and you're having anxiety over it, you know, go to them and just and just do it. You know, just have that talk immediately. There's no need to wait. There's no need to have like the perfect scenario. Um, but open yourself up and be vulnerable first, I think is key. I hope. I hope that is key to be able to go to someone, be vulnerable, say I'm I, you know, I want to understand, I want to be better, I want you to understand where I'm coming from. Can we please talk about this? So I hope being up front and just leading with courage and vulnerability, and the the answer will always be the right answer, is what I've kind of my motto has always been. I've I've dealt with a lot of rejection and I've I've had a lot of success. And I think that in each of those moments, I am okay with whatever the answer is going to be because it's ultimately the right answer, even though it might not be something that I think I want.
SPEAKER_01:Have you ever had some people you were dating who just didn't couldn't even go there?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, yeah, yeah, definitely to ask of someone.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just saying it's a lot to ask of someone who maybe isn't practiced at it.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, I for sure. Yeah, I've definitely dated people who just could not even go there, just were kind of at a loss of words. And and ultimately obviously those relationships just crumbled, you know, almost immediately. Of course, of course.
SPEAKER_01:That's a good way to sift through.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, 100%. And my boyfriend now, he is so good. He's so good at just listening and validating and understanding, but he's not, he's he doesn't just conform to whatever I want, right? He's not just like, okay, you're right. You know, he's very much of like, okay, I see where you're coming from. I understand how you're feeling that way. I don't want you to feel that way. How can we make it better? What can we both do? I can do this different, you know. Maybe could you do this different? And we figure it out. And I think that is 100% key to a great relationship.
SPEAKER_01:It's such a good time to be dating, to be married. I mean, as far as we know, so much more than we ever had before about what makes a relationship thrive. You know, strongermarriage.org, I'm sure you're familiar with that. Amber being in the area you are. Um, so many wonderful resources there. That um, with your dedication, I think you are going to be unstoppable.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Thanks.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's a take-home message for sure that you just want all of us to remember from our discussion today.
SPEAKER_00:Something to stand out. Yeah, just stay positive and know your goals and know your worth and love yourself and you know, have your priorities, of course, in line of where you want them to be, and always stay true to those and keep yourself in check. You know, no one's perfect, and you know, be open to what you need to work on yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, good. Yeah, we're not looking for perfect, are we? But a good fit, yes, you know, where it's a win-win. And you know, I have a friend who wrote the book, Real Love in Dating, and he talks about, you know, dating with our wish worst foot forward, because when you date with your best foot forward, everybody's got that stinky foot, and sometimes you find out about that stinky foot a little too late. Yeah, definitely. I would say that might be my greatest takeaway is um leaving people, relationships, hearts better than you found them stronger. You know? Ah. Well, Amber Anderson, thank you so much for being with us today, for really speaking so openly about a really tender topic that's kind of loaded. It's not easy. It takes a lot of courage, and I really admire um the courage that you have.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. Here I am, this is my decision, and going forward, this is what I'm looking for. And I want to teach others that same kind of courage. So good for you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Appreciate you having me here.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's all we have for now today, friends. Thank you for tuning in, and we'll see you next time. But do remember it's the small things that create a stronger marriage connection. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment, and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at StrongerMarriageWife and Facebook at Stronger Marriage. So be sure to share with us which topics you love and which guests we should have on the show next. If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit strongermarriage.org where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys, and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University. And you, our audience, you make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.