Stronger Marriage Connection

How The Enneagram And Mindful Awareness Strengthen Connection | Amanda Ford | #155

• Utah Marriage Comission • Season 4 • Episode 155

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We explore how the Enneagram, mindfulness, and personal values help couples understand patterns, reduce conflict, and build trust. Amanda Ford shares practical tools to translate differences into connection, redefine compatibility, and communicate requests with clarity and care.

• Nine types as lenses for patterns and needs
• Head, heart, body centers explained with examples
• Using insights without labeling or blaming
• Mindfulness as embodied awareness for self-regulation
• Yoga practices that calm the nervous system
• Brené Brown’s values exercise for clarity and alignment
• Nonviolent Communication for value-based requests
• Gottman love maps to stay current and curious
• Compatibility across practical, wavelength, and intimacy
• Acceptance over sameness to fuel repair and goodwill
• Tools and resources: test links, books, and apps

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Dr. Dave Schramm:

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http://drdavespeaks.com

Dr. Liz Hale:

http://www.drlizhale.com/

SPEAKER_00:

Today, Liz and I sit down with Amanda Ford for a fun and eye-opening conversation about personalities. Amanda walks us through the free anagram personality test and shares insights that help us better understand our own patterns and motivations. We also explore mindfulness and personal values and how tuning into these pieces can strengthen couple relationships. It's all about building great self-awareness, patience, and compassion for ourselves and our partners and using personality insights to connect in deeper, more meaningful ways. Amanda Ford is a therapist, educator, and yoga teacher dedicated to helping individuals and couples build resilience, strengthen connection, and navigate life's meaningful transitions. She earned her bachelor's degree in social work from Brigham Young University and her MSW from the University of Utah. Clinically, Amanda specializes in working with couples and families on conflict, communication, blended family dynamics, faith transitions, and grief. She's especially passionate about equipping couples with practical tools for repair, empathy, and mindful connection. Beyond her professional work, she enjoys practicing yoga, traveling, exploring world cultures and religions, and spending time outdoors with her partner and children. We hope you enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_06:

Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. We're so happy to have you here. As a matter of fact, we wouldn't be here without you. I'm psychologist Dr. Liz Hale, along with the esteemed professor Dr. Dave Schram. And together we have dedicated our life's career to bringing you the best we have in valid marital research, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. Okay, so my friend Dave, before today, had you ever heard of the Enneagram?

SPEAKER_00:

Liz, I have heard of it and it's on my to-do list. I need to take that today.

SPEAKER_06:

You're gonna want to do that, I think, today, especially after we talk with our next guest. So the Enneagram defines these nine personality types, and they have their strengths and their weaknesses and opportunities, right, for personal growth. And um, so many of my colleagues have been bringing up the Enneagram and they're using it with couples. So naturally, um, I took the Enneagram myself because I want to better understand and anything that will help couples, I'm I'm all about. Amanda Ford is our licensed social worker at Utah State University, and she instructs there. Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection, Amanda. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. You have inspired me to take the Enneagram. I did it and I wanted to learn how to do it with couples. So um, what is a brief explanation of it, please? And how can knowing our number one to nine help us better understand and connect with each other?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, good. I'm glad you took it, Liz. Um, it's something I'm pretty passionate about as a therapist working with couples. I often encourage my couples to take the test and try to find out more about themselves first, trying to understand who they are. That helps you be a better partner. I also use it as a teacher in school. So um, I used to teach a class at BYU Hawaii, and we talked about just trying to figure out who we are. It was actually a relationships class, trying to understand. Um, first of all, like thinking, especially these college kids want to get married. They want to, they're dating, they're trying to figure out who they are, who what kind of partner they want. So a lot of times I would help them just try to understand more about compatibility and like how finding the right partner is probably the best step to having a happy marriage, is like starting before you get married. I know a lot of times people are like, okay, um, I maybe married someone I'm not very compatible with, and that that's a lot harder than backing up and saying, okay, before you get married, let's think about who I am, uh, what my values are, even like what what my type is to help me understand like what would what partner would be best for me.

SPEAKER_06:

Wow, that sounds a little magical. I know it's a very spiritual personality test, right? I think that's what drew you to it initially.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, yeah. So I one thing at at BYU Hawaii, um, yeah, the the students are mostly LDS. And so being able to talk about God and their relationship with God, uh their spirituality. So Richard Rohr is somebody that I also really admire. And I think that's probably where I learned the most from watching his videos and trying to understand just who how he explains it from a spiritual perspective. Um, I really love Naked Now. It's a book that he kind of dives into like figuring who you are. And I think for me, the Enneagram was something that helped me really understand myself when I was going through a divorce and like trying to figure out like what happened. Like, um, it's it's hard to go, obviously, to go through a divorce. Um, the Enneagram also uses mindfulness and understanding like how do we kind of slow down and like tune into what our body's telling us and trying to trust like that deeper inner wisdom that we have. And I think that's what drew me to it as well. And then being able to just really relate to connecting this idea of like, okay, who am I? Why is my marriage not working? Um, am I is it just like compatibility? Is it, you know, what where's the mistakes? Where's like what did I miss? Um, I think that was really helpful for me. And then I think finding a partner that I felt more compatible with, not that we're the same. I think that's something I think really important to remember is like compatibility doesn't mean sameness, it just means understanding and looking at values and looking at um like who we are as people. Do we connect to each other? Can we respect each other? Um, so I think that was really helpful for me as far as like understanding my type and um going through a big trans, I guess, transformation of like um and trans transition both, right? Like transitioning into like out of a marriage and then getting remarried and like finding myself before I did that was really helpful.

SPEAKER_06:

I would guess so. And then re-relocating, right? BYUHUI NAUERT UCA State. Yeah, uh doesn't this sound interesting? Doesn't it make you want to take the Enneagram?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it does. I know. I mean I'm gonna have you two just keep talking. I'm gonna go take it real quick. No, just can't we gonna take it right after this because uh yeah, this is I I have to ask a man with with personality, this is kind of a broad question that I just thought of do personalities change or is it kind of like who you, you know, without like you know, a brain, you know, uh injury or something? But basically, do that's the question. Do personalities change on this over time or experience?

SPEAKER_05:

That's a really good question. Um, let me start with maybe backing up a little bit, because I think maybe for people who don't know about the Enneagram, it might be a little easier to understand it with like maybe five love languages. Like that's something that I think probably your listeners have have talked about before with Gary Chapman's ideas of like, how do I express love? How do I receive love? And then maybe also thinking about the Meyer Briggs test. I don't know if you're familiar with that. A lot of times at school, they use that to help students get like find their career path or like where their strengths are. And from my understanding, your personality is like the essence of who you are, especially with the Enneagram, and it doesn't change over time. But I think like you might answer differently depending on like who you're thinking of. Like if I'm thinking of a relationship with my mom or my sister or my partner, like my answers might shift. So the advice I've always been given when taking these tests is thinking about like how am I overall, like maybe not specifically with a relationship, but most often, how would I respond? And I mean, I I think of course, like at the essence of us doesn't change like the the deep soul of who we are. I think that was the maybe the spiritual part of the Enneagram of like understanding this is more of like a divine, like innate who we are, create like our soul. Um, but I do think like depending on maybe maybe even like where you live or like what time of life you're at, right? Like if you're raising little babies or if you have adult children, or if you're married or single or widowed, or like I think, yeah, those answers might look different.

SPEAKER_03:

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_04:

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_00:

Amanda, your name proceeds you. Someone who cares deeply for you, has previously uh previously been on the podcast to discuss his books, Dangerous Love and 70 Times Seven. And he speaks so fondly of you. Of course, we're talking about your partner, uh, Professor Chad Ford. Yeah, I love that guy and all he has to share. Do you mind sharing how the Enneagram has given you insights into each other? Like when you've been both taking it.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. Um, I'm a little more obsessed than he is with it. He's much more practical. And I just like I love diving into I mean, I mean, actually, maybe this will help if you understand the body parts, like your head, your heart, and your um body. So he's a head part and I'm a um heart part of the the Enneagram. So there's three different types for each one. Um, the type two, three, and four. So Liz as well. We'll we'll hopefully get to talk about Liz's type as well. But um, for me, like leading with my heart is is what is really important to me and like understanding that Chad, he's a five. Hopefully he's okay with me telling him this. Um, he or telling everyone his type. Um he which is true about a five. They're very private and like um in their head a lot. And it's definitely the head part of the Enneagram. The head parts are, let me see, it's five, six, and seven. So he's a five. Um, and so I think when I really discovered who I was, it really helped me. And I wanted to now be like, okay, now I have this partner and I really want to understand you better. So one year for Valentine's Day, he gave me a gift of taking the test. He like actually paid the money and then bought me the book. This is like one of my favorite books that he ever gave me. It's the wisdom of the Enneagram. So it goes over like basic, deep, not basic, deep understanding of what it sorry, what it is. Um sorry. Okay. And to me, the book go like helped me understand myself. But then when he took the test, that was like a really good sign of him like seeing me and knowing that it was important enough to me. So we do talk about it often, actually. And and I I think maybe this is a good time to point out that like you you shouldn't pigeon yourself into like, oh, you're a two, or maybe, and I do sometimes be like, it's the two in me, sorry. Or like I'll be like, oh, it's because you're a five. And so sometimes there can be that negative part of like maybe like excusing yourself or even like justifying behavior. Um, I think that's not helpful. But for me, understanding um maybe this is a good example. So for me, a two is really like I love through giving service and and I feel like I need to feel loved just as much as I need to give love. And sometimes if Chad, who's a five, kind of needs space or privacy, like I'll take that personally. So understanding that that's more his personality, not that he's abandoning me or like doesn't care about me, but he actually just needs to maybe process things a little differently than I do. I want to talk it out. I want to be like, hey, like tell me exactly what you're feeling right now. And he's like, no, just give me a few minutes. I need to like just like really think through everything. Um, as I want to verbally and express it, and I want to, I'm like a very touchy heart person. I'm like, no, just give me a hug. Like, can't we just hug it out? Or like, but um, and so I think understanding that difference in us has helped me a lot. I mean, there's many things that I think have helped me understand him better, but that's probably maybe the easiest one to understand.

SPEAKER_06:

Oh, that's such a good one, too. I could see that fitting for so many couples how we're just different. And if I could have this perspective of like, oh, that's what that's what's happening. It isn't personal. Um, so can I just go over that one more time? So the head, the heart, and what was the third one? Body?

SPEAKER_05:

The body. So the body types I didn't mention are eight, nine, and one. Eight, nine, one. And the heart. Nine is like the peace builder, which I have a few of those in my family. Um, and then the heart is the two, three, and four. Two, three, four. It's you, Liz. That's right. And yeah, five, six, and seven are the head.

SPEAKER_06:

Your heart also. Which number are you? A two. Okay, I see. We're nine, nice tweet. Oh, that is fascinating. Well, yes, I did. Uh you're right. I took the Enneagram yesterday. I gave Amanda heads up on what I am. And as soon as I took it, Dave, I wanted to retake it. My initial feeling was like, oh, I don't want to be this achiever. I have such a negative connotation to that. I I know I'm kind of driven. And it um the the the weaker part of that is it's hard. It's hard on me. And sometimes I want to drive my husband, who is the nine, that peacemaker. I just earlier today, before we hopped on, it's like, okay, so we have a big event coming up at our home in a couple couple weeks, and I'm just like a to-doer. You know, we gotta we gotta achieve these things, we gotta get all these these things done. And he's like, Mr. Hang Back, Hawaii, right? Where he's from, and he's hang loose, and we got lots of time. Hi. So, so tell me a little bit about you you mentioned someone else in your life is a is a three and a nine connection.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, actually, my 18-year-old daughter, she um is complicated to understand. Um I actually think as a parent, yeah, threes are hard. I can see that. But I feel like it really helped me. It's funny because I'm I'm actually excited that I've kind of put Enneagram on the back burner. But since you've asked Liz and I've just kind of dove back into it again this past week and um talking to my kids again, now that my daughter's 18, I think I got into the Enneagram years ago. She was probably too young to really look at it this way. But talking to her about it um with her boyfriend, they're they're young, they're just seniors in high school, but they're curious, you know, they've been together for a year and they're like trying to figure out is this a good compatibility? And um, so he took the test and he was also a peacemaker or uh number nine, right? He's like very um, yeah, peacemaker. He's this is the three words that describe a peacemaker: receptive, reassuring, and complacent, right? It feels like sometimes there's positives and negatives. And then I think for threes, this is the words that they stand out um adaptable, ambitious, and then image conscious. So is there like a sense? And I I love Liz that you admitted that you're like, oh, wait, I don't like, I don't want that. Like, yeah, hold on. Is there some negatives in there? Which I think is beautiful about the Enneagram. Cause, like, yeah, there can be really great traits and things we learn of our strengths, but also of I like how Richard Ward talks about it as like space to grow, right? What do I need to accept about myself? And where is like fear coming in to keep me from being my true essence and looking at the things that might be um kind of like pushing, we're pushing it away, or we don't really want to accept that part of us, trying to understand it as like why the why behind it? Why am I driven? Right. Like what is what is really a value underneath that? And I think that really might help maybe with acceptance of like something that I'm doing is why am I doing it? And connecting it more to like my my value. And I and I actually love threes and I love my daughter. She's like our, she's a dancer, she's a performer, she is the center of attention. We call it, she like makes everyone laugh. She's very beautiful. She's like just everything that you like on the outside is like so beautiful. And deep inside there are some some wounds and some insecurities and like trying to understand her better last night, like just thinking through like her who she is was actually as a parent really healing for me to be like, okay, what am I doing that's not helpful for her? And like, how can I see her a little bit better? So I, you know, I'm curious for you, Liz, too. Like, what do you think it was that made you feel like, okay, I don't, I I want to retake it. I want to change my answers, or like what what was like, yeah, what did you shy from or like not want to admit or look?

SPEAKER_06:

Just I, you know, I don't like the part of me that is so so driven, you know, that I can kind of be on top of other people a little bit too, like, okay, honey, are we gonna get this done? Um, I don't care for that aspect of me. What do you and did you give your your daughter and the boyfriend some advice? Is it three and nine? What what what would that couple um need to really look out for? Gosh, I'd love to hear.

SPEAKER_05:

No, it was actually really helpful for both of them. Um I hope Miles is okay when I'm talking about him. Miles is just such a sweet kid. Like, and we they had been friends right when we moved here. They became like best friends and didn't start dating until a couple months after we had been here. Um, but Miles' temperament is such a blessing to Emmy because it helps her stay more present, um, not feel like she has to keep going, going, going. Like he's like, hold on, like maybe we could just sit and watch a TV show for a little bit. They started watching Gilmore girls and just like slowing down a little bit. And then the other thing that I noticed is like he's very supportive of her ambition. So, like if she has a goal, she's um very driven, like he supports her in that and sees the value and like it's not just that you're busy, but then that there's this like balance that we have to hold of like, okay, yes, I am driven and yes, I want to like sit down. It doesn't mean I'm lazy. It actually means I like value peace and quiet and stillness is really important to me. And so for my daughter Emmy to look at like that aspect of like, oh, okay, it's not laziness actually at all. It like helps him rejuvenate by being still sometimes and just like slowing down or not being around so many people or and Emmy's very social. Um, so I don't know if that kind of helps Liz thinking about like with your partner, I bet, especially being from Hawaii, that like aloha, like chill, um, just slow pace of life, right?

SPEAKER_06:

Hanging loose, yeah, hang loose. And it has really been good for me in in many aspects, but sometimes I do feel like I think we're wasting time. So I find that a real, you know, fine balance between the two. Oh, that's just so fascinating, Amanda. I really appreciate you um being the kind of the final helper, if you will, or the colleague who has said, okay, I'm gonna jump into this.

unknown:

Good.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm glad it's helped. And and I think, you know, it doesn't like stop with just finding out about it. I actually think like the more you understand who you are and you know, do some more research on like, okay, what does that look like? And what do I need to help me maybe slow down and understand my partner better and be really curious about like what is it that he really values? Um, I also really love Brene Brown. I I know we didn't mention this earlier, but um, I think understanding her, she has an activity that she asks people to do on her webpage, and it's um about values. And so she has a list of values and she says, look at those values and and pick your top two right now, like in your life right now, what what feels really important to you? And as a social worker, it's funny, I do this every year. And and my social work values often align with um my core values of the list. So like dignity and self-worth or um education and like competency, like being able to keep learning. And so looking at you would like pick your top two values. And then these two questions um she has you ask yourself. And I I think they're kind of hard questions to ask, but I think they're really important to ask yourself, okay, how am I, what's the evidence that shows or how am I living into this value? So if I really value self-worth or I value um education, like am I, what am I doing? Where's the evidence that? And then where's the gap? Like, where am I not living into that value? And usually I think that's where we might have some dissonance with ourselves or even with our partner. And then I think what's really helpful is to ask your partner the same thing. And maybe even like as a family, like, what are our family core values? And then as a family, like, what are we doing to live into those values? And I think that really helps me like be true to myself and connecting too. Like these personality types are important, but it's it's really like who you are at your essence and like what do you care about? And and am I showing up the way I want to show up? Um, and then where are my gaps or mistakes or things that I want to do differently?

SPEAKER_06:

Oh, this is all so exciting. Yep, Dave.

SPEAKER_00:

If our listeners have not convinced yet, my friends, yeah, I can't take this. We're gonna put the link in our show notes. Yeah. So don't take it right now. Wait, finish the episode and then go take it. We have a lot more uh great things to discuss. In fact, um you've convinced us that this is a a wonderful gift for our relationships, not just as an individual, but you you talk about understanding. Because you can, I guess you can use any knowledge, uh, really, Amanda, for for good or ill. You know, I have this new knowledge, now I can whack them over the head and say, hey, yeah, you know, this is the reason there, you're like this or that, or real compassion and understanding for them. I think among the the other talents, uh, Amanda, that we get a little sneak peek in into you, you practice, you teach and love yoga. Is this I mean, where you learned mindfulness? I know mindfulness, yoga, uh, you know, put those together. Tell us a little bit about yoga and mindfulness.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. Um, right now, one of my favorite jobs I have is um, I have lots of little side things, but I get to teach yoga to teenagers that are in residential treatment centers. And those girls are probably at the lowest point in their life. And when I first started, they I really don't think they liked yoga. They were like, um, no, I don't want to move. I don't want to sit still, I don't want to do anything. Like they're really at a tough spot. And I'm that's usually why they're at those residential treatment centers, are um sometimes the last hope for parents of like they don't know what to do. And so I've been um really blessed to work with some of these young girls. And I come in for an hour and a half twice a week to teach a little yoga mindfulness session. And what I've seen, the transformation of like letting helping them find the value in stillness and just like being present. And um man, I I really do feel like after a couple months of working with them, this has become one of their favorite things that they like look forward to because they recognize the value of listening to your body, like slowing down. Um, yoga really provides the asanas or the movements, help your body learn to sit still. So it's the the connection of both, which is I think really powerful, is like when you can do the yoga with the intention to learn to like just listen to your body. Like right now, I could hear my heart beating, right? Because I'm nervous. I don't like talking on these things. So I can like slow down and say, okay, what is my body telling me? It's like, oh, okay. And if I can just slow down and even now just like take a deep breath and like feel my heart center and say, okay, what's what's my body telling me? And with these girls that have been traumatized or been through a lot of pain, um, for them to just listen, it's scary at first. Um and for me too, when I was going through my divorce, I was really scared. Um, I didn't know if I what I was doing was good or I was scared about my kids or the outcome. And um, as as I learned yoga, and I guess that will answer your question, that's when I started it, was like when I was going through divorce, I just like needed something. And I remember going to one of my first classes and just bawling. And I was like, this is really weird. It's like this is so awkward. I thought it was more of like an exercise. I'm like, no, this is not exercise. This is like deep connection to self and like deep discovery of like who you are. And so having that space, I had a beautiful teacher in North Shore, just like so kind and compassionate and just said, it's okay, Amanda. Like, that's what this is for. Like the safest space. This space is safe for you to really be here and just feel whatever it is that's coming up for you. So for me, I think that was what motivated me to keep going. And then um eventually I trained in on the big island in Hawaii at an ashram where I stayed for three weeks and just dove into mindfulness and yoga and got my certificate that way. Um, I teach it sometimes in community or at school. Sometimes I'll incorporate it into my classroom, especially mindfulness. You know, Nastani, my now at USU, even um, we do lots of little five-minute meditations just to connect. We teach mediation, which is really scary for students. So I say, like, let's slow down, take a couple breaths, and just do like a five-minute meditation of um scanning your body, noticing how you feel. And I think that really helps um connect to yourself and understand your body better and what you need.

SPEAKER_03:

So we'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_04:

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_00:

My my wife does well, she gets up in the morning like five days a week and different exercise, but Thursday is always yoga, and she always comes home and she's just like, ah, that's so helpful. They have they have themes, you know, or you know, kind of walk, you know, think about this or that or forgiveness or relationships. So and I get mindfulness is often thought of as a isn't kind of an individual and a grounding me, but how can it affect relationships? Does that make sense? Maybe not doing yoga together, mindfulness together, but just one person, you're just that mindset. Does that make sense? How can that spill over and think about your partner?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I love that, Dave. I think um trying to first use mindfulness to understand yourself. I think it just like I said with the Enneogram, like the more you understand yourself, the better you're uh you'll understand your partner. Um, Chad uses the in Dangerous Love, he talks about turning first and like really understanding how to see somebody else, not expecting that they're gonna see you. But I think a lot of times in relationships we want them to see us so bad. Um, but if we can slow down and actually say, I'm gonna slow down to see myself first and use mindfulness to be like, okay, what is it that's going on inside and not expect me to like have them read me or understand me? Um, yes, it's okay to want to be seen, but to expect them to be a certain way or to treat you a certain way or to do like do something towards you. Um, I think that's uh the dangerous part of dangerous love, really, that Chad has taught me is like I'm gonna just turn and love you, even if you don't love me back. Like that's hard. And especially in a marriage, right? To to just say, uh, I see my partner, I see them, I love them so much that I'm I'm gonna stay open, like keep my arms. He calls it the risk of embrace, like opening your arms to accept that you know I can be here and I can really stay stand. But to do that, to me, you have to be mindful and present. Um, so I love the connection of mindfulness. Sometimes I don't I I mean the word got so popular and I don't really love the word because it like is up here. But if we can just be more of like embodied presence of like I'm aware of my body, I'm more awareness, maybe is like a better way to explain mindfulness. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love it. I I love the word attunement. Uh just almost being attuned to others and their emotions, their expressions and things. And it's kind of the outward mindset, right? Of kind of noticing, being awareness, the understanding, but man, that yeah being attuned to what's going on in yourself and and in others super powerful. Love it. Thanks.

SPEAKER_06:

It it does. It always starts with home base, doesn't it? I um it's it's always about my own health first and awareness. I like this. You know, when we as couples get get stuck and stuck and we feel disconnected, Amanda, where do you suggest that we start? Might there be any small, let's say mindful shifts that can bring back the warmth and the love and the openness?

SPEAKER_05:

I love that you use those words warmth, because sometimes our marriages can feel cold and distant. Um so I think to me, uh being curious first about yourself again is like where is this coldness coming from, or where am I not connected to myself? And then how can I like start to open up towards my partner? I think curiosity is always my big like if we're curious, right? Like, why are they doing the things they do? If there's something that's bugging me, what is the deeper underneath it, right? It's not just that they're being rude or that they don't like me. There's something deeper, right, than the behavior and trying to understand like how can I use mindfulness and just being aware of and present, right? Just slow down, um, be curious, ask questions. I think the more we really dive into like, okay, if I really love this person, I want I'm in a committed relationship with them, I need to understand them. Um, I know Gottman, you guys talk about Gottman a lot, but he uses those love maps. And I I think that's something that's really important to keep coming back to, like, what what's changed in in my person, right? Not in and then in us or in our family dynamics, like what stage are we at now? And I think those love maps, asking questions about our partner and being curious of like, you know, what's hard for you right now? What are you excited about right now? Um, the more we kind of dive into their world and understanding them, I think being present with just what's coming up for both of us. I yeah, so asking questions, being kind. I'm always just like slow down, be kind, like give them the benefit of the doubt that they're doing the best they can.

SPEAKER_06:

I love Terry Real has um said that there's nothing that can be said in harshness that can't be better said in love. Oh, I love that. I think that's beautiful. It's so true. And I think anytime we do come across angry, we're wrong. I mean, I I've learned just recently that I can say, gosh, I'm I'm really angry that we don't have this taken care of yet, without being a lunatic. You know what I mean? I can say it with without the feeling of anger coming across as a scary woman. Does that make sense? Yeah. Goodness. I love that. Thank you, Amanda.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Amanda, you you speak often about the importance of understanding and honoring each other's um values. You you talked about Brene Brown and those values. When I taught I teach um happiness and positivity workshops and things, and I talk about your core four, and I have them think about their core four values, and I often And think about and instruct them to say, okay, if if it's your funeral and the person talking about you can only use four words to describe you, your character, the type of person that you are, what what would those be? What what do you want them to say about you? And then I say that probably aligns with your, you know, those are your values of the type of person you want to be. Why is that so important? Um and recognizing our own values, even even our partners' values and having that kind of be our guide in our own lives and then in in relationships, knowing each other's core four is what I call them.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Um I think something actually that Liz mentioned is like that emotion anger. Like I actually think if Liz, you were to say, like, what is the value behind? Like if you're angry about something, like I don't know if you're familiar with nonviolent communication, but they have a pattern of like communicating a request and it it connects to a value or a need. And so I think if we understand those, we're gonna be able to better say, like, hey, I'm angry because this didn't get done in time, and I really value cooperation, or I really value um what's another word to being on time? Um, punctuality or right, I I need for this to be done at by this time. And then we can ask like a kind request, like in the future or next time we have this project, can you make sure that you communicate with me about the timing or so that our our I think it makes it easier to communicate what we want and and understand ourselves. So if I understand I I actually want this done because I really value, like if my husband's coming home late from work every day, I can say, hey, I really miss you. Like I really want some time with you. And when you're coming home late every day, sorry, Chad, this actually isn't happening. We do spend a lot of quality time together. Um, and he comes home often early so that we can go to the movies or but I could ask that, like, hey, this week, can you pick a day that you can come home early? Because I really value our quality time together, our connection is really important to me. And understanding that value is what's driving the need, right? I think that would help. And even anger, like anger, there's a value underneath it. Usually when we're angry, um, there's something deeper that that's easier to look at and easier to explain to our partners. Not just that I'm pissed and I'm a crazy person. I actually have like a reason why I feel crazy. And then also using that mindfulness to be like, okay, hold on, what am I actually feeling? Actually, there's an app I love. Sorry, I'm throwing a lot of things at you guys. Um, but the I don't know if you've heard of How We Feel app. It's just learning how to name your emotions. And I love it so much. I always have my clients use it and it puts them into four different categories. Um, so how we feel, you just, and it is very science and research based. And um, I think in that happiness class, actually, Dave, it would be really cool for the students to, or in your workshops. Um, I really love being able to name the right emotion, right? It's not just that I'm angry. I actually maybe I'm I feel disconnected. What's deeper? Right. And I think that might really help if I, or even if it's like, hey, I'm sad. Actually, maybe I feel a sense of loss, or maybe I'm having some identity, like I'm not understanding sure my role. Like, what is that emotion deeper than just feeling sad or happy even? Like, am I actually really um excited that my dot, I'm like happy, but I'm is it more of an excitement? Like even distinguishing between different emotions, I think helps understand yourself better. And brilliant.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, that's great.

SPEAKER_06:

We'll add that to our show notes as well, okay, right? Okay. Amanda, you mentioned that compatibility plays a role in creating a happy, sustainable marriage. So, what determines compatibility in marriage, first of all?

SPEAKER_05:

Okay, I'm glad you asked that. Um, I kind of forgot. I wanted to talk about compatibility. I mentioned that class that I taught at BYU Hawaii, and we used to study, and this was a while ago, so it feels like this book might be a little outdated. I think it's maybe 10 or 15 years old, but it was a psychiatrist that wrote his name, Sam Hamburg, and he wrote, Will our love last? And he has these three dimensions he talks about, which I think were really helpful for me in understanding compatibility. Um, because a lot of times we think of like, oh, do they like the same thing that I do? Do we like the same food? Do we, you know, like these things? And so he actually, sorry, I have them written down so I don't forget them. One second. Okay. So yeah, the compatibility dimensions from will our love last, he he has three. So the practical one, the wavelength, and then he calls it the sexual or your intimacy connection that you have. And so I think when I understood that there are different ways to be compatible, that really helped me. Like realize I don't have to be the same as my partner. Um, but the ones that are really important to me, I think, and understanding our values might help with this as well. So the practical one is maybe thinking more about like how do we spend our day to day? Do we eat at the dinner table? Do we eat in front of the TV? Um, how do we do chores? Do we wake up early? Um, what are some boundaries that we have as a family? So maybe more of the practical, like you'll hear a lot of people like, how do you put the toilet paper roll or do you like just silly little things like that? But those things really matter, like how we live our day-to-day. Like what time do we wake up and our how are we going to spend our morning? What's that gonna look like? And can we be compatible with that? It doesn't mean it has to be the same again, but that we understand and respect that the other person values that. And then the next one I like is um, and I feel like this one maybe is the most important is our wavelength, um, our shared values, our spirituality. Um, like what am I passionate about? Uh, a lot of times we use the word vocation, like what what and if what I cared about, what that was deeply important to me, my partner didn't value that. And not that he has to write again, not have the same career. Um, I'm really lucky that I really value my partner's career. And I I think we both like are on the same page about that. Like peace building to me is the most important thing in relationships and being able to strengthen um our families and our partner, that that relationship is so important. And so to me, that is the most important one is um I don't have to have all three of them. And then the the last one is just like our intimacy. How do I value and view sexual intimacy? Um, can I communicate that with my partner? Again, we don't have to exactly be aligned perfectly, but that I think it's deeper than being the same, but respecting what is important to my partner and honoring that and giving space for it. I think a maybe simple example that I like to use is Chad's a big runner. He runs miles. Like I hate running. Like you will never find me like purposefully running. Um, and then I really love yoga. Like that's my way to exercise. And I don't think you'd ever find Chad in a yoga gym or even doing yoga with me, which you know that's okay. Um, and I think if we looked at the value beneath why we do the things we do, like we both value our health, our mindfulness. Like to him, mindfulness and meditation is by running, and to me, it's by sitting still. And so understanding that there's a deep respect underneath those really helps. Um, so yeah, I think those core are core compatibility, those three are really helpful for me.

SPEAKER_03:

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_04:

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_06:

I love this part of our discussion. And and you don't have to become a runner, and Chad doesn't have to become a yoga person, right? Yeah. I mean, that is the key right there. I think that's probably where some of us get tripped up. It's like, well, I want to be with someone who runs or goes with me to the yoga. What is the short-sightedness of that, Amanda?

SPEAKER_05:

You know, I think it's comes back to acceptance, like accepting our partner for who they are and really loving them for who they are, not wanting to change them, right? I think that was one of my favorite things about when I first met Chad and like started dating him. And when we decided to get married, I I felt like he sees me and accepts me and loves me exactly how I am. Like I'm like this is another. Here's like some of my weaknesses of I'm uh often late and I'm not very punctual. And um, I have a hard time with remembering things. I forget things all the time. And I've never once been like yelled at or been like hurt or felt like I'm less than because of those weaknesses. I always just felt accepted and loved. And to me, it actually makes me want to do better instead of like trying to correct me or fix me. He just accepts me how I am. And I think that's the most compatible is if someone can really love you and see you and just accept, accept you for even your weaknesses and even see them as he's like, that's fine. Like I know you're spending time because you really care about people, and that's why you're late because you had a conversation with someone, or like he'll see the deeper reason behind that, which is great. I feel really lucky to have him.

SPEAKER_06:

As is, that's really beautiful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that really is. Yeah, thanks, Amanda. Just to help that understanding that compatibility is not sameness, exactly. So yeah, that that insight's very powerful. Well, Amanda, we could we could talk hours and hours and hours. You have so much wisdom and wonderful tips and resources. Um, where can our listeners go to find out more about you? Um services you offer. I mean, you you talk about great, great books and websites and um tests and surveys and things. Are you out there social media or where can people find out more about you?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I I mean Instagram is probably the easiest. Most people are on there. I don't really post very much, but if I do have, I do have retreats coming up. I do a woman's retreat, um, couples retreat with um Melissa Mason. If you've heard of Patrick Mason, he's also at USU. Um, his wife's also a social worker, and so we have some retreats coming up. You can just find my Instagram, Amanda Ford Therapy, I think. Sorry, I don't even know. Maybe you can put it in the post after. Um again, I'm not very I'm also at USU. I work at the Haravi Peace Institute. Um, so sometimes I'll do events through there. And then also my partner Chad does Waymakers, and we just did a big conference called Repair, and I got to teach a parenting workshop for four hours and just a maybe a more internal piece is um piece from the inside out, is what we called that. That was another four-hour workshop that I taught with Melissa Mason. So yeah, if you connect to Waymakers, um that's a good way to find out about the repair workshops. We should be doing more of those. But yeah, I'd love to have people come join or even just email me through USU. That's fine.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome. Yeah, we will put those in our in our show notes. Um, and then as we wrap up our conversation today, we like to ask all of our guests um just an overarching question in in honor of the name of our podcast, Stronger Marriage Connection. What do you feel like is is a key? I don't know if there's the key the key, but is is there a key that you like to to share about what makes a stronger marriage connection?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I love that. I love the title of this because I I really do think it takes work and having a strong marriage is takes work. And so um I guess my takeaway, even just from what we talked about today, thinking about a stronger marriage connection, is um I think staying curious. So curious about your partner's inner world. Um ask questions with open heart and compassion, like be kind, just like trust that you get they're doing the best they can. Um so yeah, be curious with an open heart.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, love it, love it. Liz, do you have a takeaway of the day for our discussion with Amanda?

SPEAKER_06:

I'm not even quite sure where to start. I can see um, Amanda, how you and Chad resonated with each other. Is that resonated? Yeah. Um how you and Chad came together. I can really see that. You're both so talented and open-hearted, open-minded, and have so much to give. And I'm so happy that you're you join each other sometimes on your beautiful grand adventures, such as Waymaker. It's just um thrilling. And so I I I am really thrilled to have been introduced, um, finally jumped into the Enneagram. And I really appreciate just the insight. I think again, the more we know about ourselves and understand and can make peace with self, I think the more we're ready to understand and make peace with our partner. And I think the Enneagram is just one of those resources. So I'm really grateful. Dave, what about you? What's your favorite golden nugget from our conversation today with this talented, licensed clinical social worker, Amanda Ford?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, Amanda, this is this has been great. Thank you. Sometimes I some people may wonder, you know, wait, what does this have to do with relationships or marriage? But we talked about, you know, personality, we talked about mindfulness and yoga and and kind of kind of grounded. We talked about values, virtues, and holding true to those. I think that has everything to do with relationships because as we say, uh Liz, a happy, healthy uh we starts with a happy, healthy me. Being that that understanding, that awareness, that attunement, that that compassion uh first with us. It starts with us. Make sure our hearts are right, we're in a good place, and then we can be the very best version of ourselves or our children, our spouse, partner, and others. And so I love our actually our our topic today. I think it has um everything to do with with relationships because it does, it starts with us and where we're at. So, Amanda, thanks so much for making time to come on and share so much wisdom with us. We sure appreciate you.

SPEAKER_05:

Of course, thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, friends, we will see you next time. Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection podcast.

SPEAKER_06:

And remember, it's the small things that create a stronger marriage connection. Take really good care now.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment, and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at StrongerMarriageWife and Facebook at Stronger Marriage. So be sure to share with us which topics you love, which guests we should have on the show next. If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit strongermarriage.org where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys, and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University, and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.