Premarriage Prep That Actually Works | Les and Leslie Parrott | #164

We welcome Les and Leslie Parrott to unpack how preparation, empathy, and practical tools create stronger marriages, from the origins of SYMBIS to the launch of the four-minute Heart Chart. We explore healthy conflict, invisible rule books, and thought patterns that quietly shape connection.

• SYMBIS origin story and why premarriage prep matters
• moving from traits to state for real-time insight
• the invisible rule book and expectations
• how to fight a good fight without harm
• empathy as the core skill for repair
• toxic thoughts like irrational guilt and entitlement
• Heart Chart’s commitment and connection coordinates
• simple presence habits that boost attunement
• laughter, awareness, and small daily choices

Visit our site for FREE relationship resources and regular giveaways: 

Strongermarriage.org  

Podcast.stongermarriage.org

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StrongerMarriageLife

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Facebook Marriage Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/770019130329579

Dr. Dave Schramm: 

http://drdaveschramm.com

http://drdavespeaks.com

Dr. Liz Hale: 

http://www.drlizhale.com/ 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introductions

SPEAKER_04 0:04

On today's episode, Liz and I welcome back to the show Les and Leslie Parrot, and we dive into the heart of what makes relationships thrive, from the power of premarriage preparation to the essential questions every couple should be asking. We'll explore how tools like Simbus and the new heart chart can help partners understand each other's invisible rule books, navigate conflict with empathy, and build healthier, more connected marriages. It's a practical, insightful conversation designed to strengthen the way you show up for each other every day. Dr. Les Parrot and his wife Leslie have been traveling the globe speaking and helping couples for more than 35 years. Les is a professor of psychology at Northwest University, and they are founders of the Center for Healthy Relationships on the campus of Olivet University. The Parrots have been featured in USA Today and The New York Times. Their television appearances include CNN, The View, You Owe Riley Factor, The Today Show, and Oprah. As number one New York Times best-selling authors, their books have sold over two million copies in more than two dozen languages and include their new book entitled Bad Thoughts: Reclaiming Your Mind and Soul. We hope you enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. I'm psychologist Dr. Liz Hale, along with the famous prof so sorry, Dave, along with the favorite professor, Dr. Dave Schram. And together we have dedicated our life's work to bringing you the best we have in valid marital research, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. Okay, Dave, as we know, relationships are at the heart of everything we do, yet navigating them can feel incredibly complex, right? And I'm so glad we don't have to do it alone. I'm glad we have each other, Dave, and Rex. And we also have our friends and return guests, Dr. Les and Dr. Leslie Parrott. They are prominent in the field, authors, leading experts in the marriage field. Um, Drs. Leslie and Les have committed themselves to helping millions build healthier connections through Simbus, which I'm sure you remember. Simbus stands for Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts. Welcome back to Stronger Marriage Connection, Dr. Les and Dr. Leslie Perrett. Thanks, you guys. Good to go to you. Such a treat. Leslie, it's such a pleasure having you join us this time.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Hey, this is a great gift for me. Just I love what you guys are about.

The Origins Of SYMBIS

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Oh, back at you. Let's take the mystery out of Simbus. Um, that's a powerful acronym that you're known for. I would love to know where how it came to be, and you can tell more about what it stands for in this wonderful assessment. Tell us everything.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

Well, it all started um, boy, what, almost over 25 years ago. Um, and uh Leslie and I were teaching at a university here in Seattle where we live, and realized our students were starving for information on healthy relationships, especially those that were engaged to be married, just how to get started on the right foot.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, and we had a heartbeat for that because we'd had our own story as a couple that didn't have any pre-marriage counseling available to us.

SPEAKER_05 3:20

Right. And so we just thought, let's do an event for our students on the campus, and and we did kind of just uh shoestring budget, pull this thing together and just had it kind of, I think it was in the basement of the gym or something. It wasn't anything fancy. And uh, we were surprised by the response that we got. And um, so we did it again the next year. It more than doubled, and um, it just kind of kept growing organically. And at uh a certain point we said we should probably write a book on this, which we did Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts. And lo and behold, uh we started getting calls from people like Oprah and Barbara Walters and all kinds of folks in the media, and suddenly we were talking about marriage preparation at a national level, and uh uh we just can't believe it. More than two million uh couples have now gone through this book and the his or her workbooks marriage before it starts.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

That is so great. And as a marriage therapist, in my premarriage counseling, I always give out the symbus. It has been an incredible gift to be able to sit down with a couple and go through their strengths, their challenges, their opportunities. You really have put together a beautiful program.

From Book To Assessment

SPEAKER_05 4:33

Yeah, and you're talking about the assessment, it sounds like too, because about 12 years ago, um, our publisher, I think it was in the the book reached a million copies, and the publisher said, Hey, let's let's update this and revise it. And sometimes that's publisher speak for let's put a new cover on it. And we said, let's really do the research. And so we did a massive listening tour to all the folks out there that had gone through it and have been using it on the front lines, and and they all we just heard this kind of roar response of we want an assessment that goes with this. And you guys know very well you don't just sit down in leather chairs one day and figure out an assessment. It takes a long time for reliability studies and validity issues and all kinds of things. But uh yeah, 12 years ago we launched the Simbus assessment, and that's been really a great accelerant to people that are, you know, whether they're a pastor, a counselor, a coach, whatever, to be able to use that with couples.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

That's such a fun partnership because it's so personal. You know, books bring insight, counseling deepens that. But when you do an assessment, now you're getting personal and you're having to really interact with your thoughts and your story. And then when you get the information back and you're learning about yourself, the infographics, it's real.

SPEAKER_05 5:53

Yeah. And it's not just a diagnostic, it's a discussion starter. It's uh it helps you put names on things that you didn't know needed to be named, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:02

And yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 6:03

Psychologists sometimes say it's you know, name it to tame it. Once you can put a label on it, you can get a hold of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Well done. And it just helps us to be able to do a more efficient job, you know, as therapists. So I'm really I'm so grateful from a from a professional standpoint.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

I'm so glad. Yeah, man, I'm a huge fan. I have to just tell you to start for of both of you guys, it was about 20 years ago. Yeah, I was a student, and I remember I had like the first edition of your book that came out. Well, yeah, I was a big fan. It kind of helped guide me even into this area of relationship and marriage education. So, yeah, you've got a little fan club right here. Uh, watching you guys present smart marriages, all kinds of stuff way back in the uh in the day. So appreciate you uh coming back on. Now, right, your book um uh Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts. I mean, we can't emphasize enough of how important that is for dating, for engaged couples, even for married couples as they're they're going through this. Are there like two or three, I don't know, questions, I guess, for newly married couples, engaged couples that they need to really make sure that they're asking each other.

SPEAKER_05 7:11

Well, that's kind of that how the book is structured. It's seven questions to ask before and after you marry. And the very first question is have you faced the myths, the misbeliefs of marriage with honesty?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, that's of course, as you guys know, in deep in the trenches, that's all about expectations and sort of getting making those real and making them known because they're so unconscious, they're below the surface, and the couple doesn't even know they hold expectations often until they get married, and their spouse doesn't live up to that unspoken expectation.

SPEAKER_05 7:47

We often say it's it's almost like when you get married, you bring this little invisible rule book along with you. The rule book is about how life and marriage is supposed to be lived. And we design this invisible rule book based on the um relationship that we saw in our home growing up between mom and dad, or the relationship that we didn't see and we idealized or hoped for. And so we bring that into this. And it's only when you sit down and really compare notes on this invisible rule book that you realize oh, we have some rules that contradict each other, maybe sometimes, or whatever. Uh, how you're supposed to uh express affection, and do you do that in public or not? Uh uh how important time is and what it means to be just it's a to be early, to be late, to be on time, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Everything has an emotional load, right?

The Invisible Rule Book

SPEAKER_05 8:38

And feelings we don't talk about in this family, or you know, uh uh how money is to be uh thought about and experienced. And you know, the list goes on and on and on. And so that's really the when you when you ask Dave, you know, about what what questions should they ask, that's the first one that pops into my mind is have you faced the misbeliefs of marriage with honesty? And of course, that's relevant not just to newlyweds or engaged couples, it's really relevant at any age or stage. Sure. Because when we get to parenting, guess what? We have a whole nother rule book that we pull off the shelf and go, hey, this is how you parents, right? So it's it's uh an empty nest and it just goes on and on.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

I mean, if I was gonna take it to one more question that's super important, do you know how to fight a good fight?

SPEAKER_05 9:22

Yeah, that's really important.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

We know how fundamental that skill is. And honestly, it's so surprising to couples that the goal isn't to avoid conflict, that that actually isn't even the healthiest thing, right? But it's knowing how to navigate it in a way that connects you.

SPEAKER_05 9:40

Yeah, how do you fight a good fight? And our friend and and colleague John Gottman, that's right here in our own city of Seattle, has done more yeoman work on that than just about anybody, as far as I know, and has been able to show us really it's one of the most valuable skill sets that we can develop in a relationship. How to fight a good fight. You know, there's there's bad fights, there's dumb fights, and there's good fights. And a good fight, like Leslie said, is really the price we pay for deeper intimacy. If you know how to fight a good fight, it can actually bring you closer together. And so um that's why it's uh we we do an awful lot of we we do this event around the country uh every once in a while called Fight Night. And it's just uh an event on how to fight well as a couple.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

That is a clever idea. Not date night, but fight night.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

Yes, and uh and for some reason men are more intrigued by coming to an event called Fight Night than they are becoming soulmates or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Imagine, imagine that. That's shocking. Yeah, but there's yeah, what does it mean? Your book is your book called That Very Thing?

SPEAKER_05 10:50

We have a book called The Good Fight. Uh or uh yeah, the good fight.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

The good fight.

SPEAKER_05 10:55

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah, and and actually, you know, drilling down on that is so important. And when you say, like, is there one question? Obviously, there's a skill that's underneath every skill when it comes to a good fight, and that has to do with empathy.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

That's empathy, that capacity to see the world from somebody else's perspective. I often say, I wish we could bottle it, I wish we could package it, I wish people could go to the local drugstore and go, hey, I need a refill on empathy, right? It it would be such an incredible um, it's a soother in a relationship, right? And in fact, speaking of conflict, this sounds like a made-up statistic, but nine times out of ten in a conflict, a conflictual issue, if all you do is accurately see that issue from the other person's perspective, nine times out of ten, it totally uh resolves on its own. That's all it took was some understanding, right? And when you have mutual understanding, mutual empathy, life doesn't get much sweeter.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Just to just to practice putting myself in your shoes, right? And it is it's so sexy and attractive when my husband is able to do that for me. You know what I mean? With just that perspective of like, oh, I that kind of makes sense. It's like, ah, Dodge, you're right. It just melts.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

It melts everything.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

You guys are pulling off all the various hits. I keep reaching behind me for books.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Like you're just places.

SPEAKER_05 12:33

Uh we wrote a whole book on empathy because it's and and and people, this is something else that's interesting. We know from research. People think they empathize much better than they actually do.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

It's true. We we're very self-confident in our capacity to empathize and check that off this.

SPEAKER_05 12:51

I got that. I'm locked in on empathy. It's just not true. I mean, here we are, psychologists, we've written books on empathy, we speak about it, and every day it's a mountain you got to climb. It's just because it's an intention. It goes it goes against the grain, really. You can make it a little micro habit where you find some ways to make it easier, but it still is something that you have to be intentional about. You just don't do it naturally.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Right. And it requires the gift of our attention, which and presence, which is huge.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

Yeah. And that means set aside your own agenda, at least temporarily, to focus on that person's agenda. And that's why it's so difficult to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Mm-hmm. That perception, right? I know my own. I know my own, and it's right, right? We all feel. But to be able to switch that around and see it from somebody else's is a trick. Well, speaking of books, congratulations on your latest book, Bad Thoughts, Reclaiming Your Mind and Soul, co-authored with Pastor Judith Smith. We love how the two of you combine faith with neuroscience and psychologies to help the rest of us overcome a negative thought patterns. What discovery of this are you are you most proud of from that collaboration? Do you have a favorite key point from the book?

Empathy As A Core Skill

SPEAKER_05 14:03

When it comes to that project, I'm most proud of actually surviving and keeping my relationship intact with uh my co-author. So uh if he was here to defend himself, he would agree. But uh uh yeah, well, it's not easy because uh here I don't know of any other book that has been written by a therapist and a client together. And so the subtitle involves a preacher in a shrink. And uh, you know, this was a long therapeutic process over a decade on and off at different seasons, and he lost his dad, and there was grief, and there was marriage stuff with Chelsea. They speak about it openly, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

There were not marriage crisis, just marriage active tuning up. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

So uh, but anyway, what we realized is in the process of of you know putting that book together is uh there was a theme, there was kind of a ribbon that ran through all of our work therapeutically, and it all had to do with you know, you are what you think. And so we began to look at kind of some of the most toxic thoughts that are pretty predictable in that book. Um, so it's not necessarily a a marriage book, it's certainly a relationship book because as you guys we've talked about this in the past before, your relationships can only be as healthy as you are. And one of the things that helps you get healthy is becoming aware of your thoughts and identifying that because our thoughts, right, eventually become our feelings, and we have to be attuned to that in order to be attuned to our partner. So it all ties together psychologically, but yeah, that that is uh a project that uh was actually five years in the making, uh, which is a long time for a book like that to be worked on. But yeah, we're we're pretty excited about it.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

So so even our thinking about our partner, even how I think about my partner, is that kind of some of the thinking?

SPEAKER_05 16:01

Of course. Absolutely, because we project ourselves onto our partner, sure, make assumptions about them, and that's all a head game.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah, a lot of times I'm sure you find yourself in a session with a client just thinking, you know, what story is it you're telling yourself right now about what what this means or what they're saying to you. And it it all starts there.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

Yeah, bad thoughts. And so it's it's uh it's a funny kind of title because of course nobody wants bad thoughts, but what we're doing is just confronting that head-on so that we can begin to uh turn those into good thoughts. Love that.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

Can you get our our listeners even a sneak peek, a little teaser uh or two of some of these uh destructive thought patterns? You talk about five, is that right?

SPEAKER_05 17:07

Yeah, well, one of them is entitlement. Uh we have this kind of idea that uh, you know, we deserve things uh just because of who we are, maybe what we've done. Uh, and entitlement can be a very toxic thought, as we all know.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Um and culturally, we're pretty shaped by that message.

SPEAKER_05 17:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

So it's kind of ubiquitous, and you kind of have to work hard on the the humility that leads you away from that.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

The very first toxic thought is the chapter is called Take Your Last Guilt Trip. And uh that's all about you know self-condemnation and and uh there's just this idea. So many people think that, you know, have you have you ever heard the phrase, let your conscience be your guide? Right? We've all heard that. And uh I always ask people, you know, where did that come from? And more often than not, people go, oh, that's in scripture, right? I think it was the Apostle Paul that said, Let your conscience be your guide. Everybody's pretty surprised to realize, no, that was Walt Disney and uh what was the character's name?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Jiminy Cricket.

Bad Thoughts And Mental Habits

SPEAKER_05 18:12

Jiminy Cricket. And the reason I highlight that is we uh we often think that our our conscience is like preordained that it we come kind of pre-packaged with what to feel guilty about and what not to. No, it's not the case. We learn that our conscience, that's why you feel guilty about things that I don't, and vice versa. And so there's there's guilt that is rational, and we should feel guilty about certain things when we break a moral code, for example. Uh, but there's also irrational guilt where we just feel guilty about things that we really shouldn't, that we don't deserve to feel guilty about. And so that be that's when it becomes toxic. So it's not that we're saying, oh, all guilt is bad. No. But irrational guilt is one of these things that it's kind of like a toothache. When you have a toothache, you can't think about anything else. How do I get rid of this pain? We, you know, oh, I want to plan our vacation. I can't even think about our vacation right now. I'm in too much pain, right? Guilt is like that, it's self-consuming. And I can't do anything until I get this backpack full of guilt off my back. And so, anyway, that's why we say take your last guilt trip and discover the road to grace, because obviously grace is that that's a beautiful mantra, even.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

You know, just making a mistake even in marriage and feeling so bad about it, you know. Something happened recently where I think, oh, how did I how did I ever have the perception of my husband Ben? And it's sometimes it's hard to forgive yourself. We can get right, we can get us a little stuck into that, and we do have to just let it go. I think the hardest person might be forgiving self. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Agreed, agreed, and it feels like we're doing it out of love, but it Does become self-absorbed. So then we sabotage our ability to love again.

SPEAKER_05 20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yep, that's right. And so the cycle goes. Well, if anyone listening today is craving a little clarity, connection, or encouragement, we've got the site for you from Doctors Les and Leslie. Tell us about Heart Chat. And we do, we do. Talk about providing a beautiful assessment.

Guilt, Conscience, And Grace

SPEAKER_05 20:22

Well, we are in the process of launching a statewide marriage initiative in the state of Idaho. We had announced that uh at the governor's prayer breakfast this last spring. And um, as a part of that, yeah, Idaho, by the way, has one of the highest divorce rates in the country right now, surprisingly, and a plummeting marriage rate, and not a good combination for any state. And so we we um in building a lot of different tools for that effort realize, well, this goes far beyond the state of Idaho. And one of those tools that's totally free, I hope all of our listeners and viewers will take advantage of this. They can just go to myheartchart.com, myheartchart.com. And what what is it? It's a little tool that takes about four minutes, completely free. If I didn't mention that, F-R-E, no cost. You don't have to give any information about your email or sign up or register anything like that. Totally anonymous. It's totally anonymous. You won't get you know junk mail as a result or anything else. But uh myheartchart.com, you answer a few questions, and what it does is give you something that you've never seen before, and that is a picture of the current state of your relationship. It measures that. Most assessments, and we've built several, most assessments are all about traits. You know, I'm an eight on the Enneagram, I'm an ETJ on Myers Briggs, I'm uh I'm um uh I have Woo on Strengths Finder, I, you know, whatever the thing is, it's all about traits. And that's really important to understand. And and Simbus, by the way, has eight different traits around a pinwheel of personality and so forth. All good stuff. Um, that's that proverbial handle on the hot teapot that you can, oh, makes it easier to kind of identify and manage stuff. But heartchart, myheartchart.com, what this does is actually look at not your traits, but your current state. Not trait, but state. And a state is very fluid, it changes. The state of your relationship now is gonna be different in all likelihood a year from now. And you can take this as many times as you want, that's why it's brief, it's only four minutes, and uh you do this on your own. You don't have to do this with your partner, it's not dyadic, as we like to say. It's just where an individual can do this.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

You can invite your partner to take it as well and share, but you can also just do it as a contemplative exercise to know yourself.

SPEAKER_05 23:00

That's right, that's right. And so we we built this because we want people when you know the state of your relationship, you now know who you are. It's kind of like a GPS for love. It's like, oh, here's where we're here's where I am in this relationship right now. Then you can begin to chart where do I want to go in this relationship, and heart chart will help you do that. It's not just like, oh, here's a little you know graph with a pin in it to locate you.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Good luck.

SPEAKER_05 23:28

Um, right.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

It is very fun. It's very fun. So it so when it says your coordinates of love, is that special to the person that took this test?

SPEAKER_05 23:35

Well, no. So what we know from research is there's two primary coordinates of love. Um, and the first of those is commitment. And I'm not talking about the big commitment of I do. We're talking about the devotion, the energy, the effort that you're putting into the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

The current, how much you're showing up with all your engagement.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

And that changes.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah. So one to ten. So it gives you one to ten commitment, one to ten connections. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 24:06

And yeah, and so connection is the other coordinate, and that is subjective. That's a feeling. Uh, how how in tune do you feel? How do you feel about their attunement to you?

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Kind of the warmth and the feeling seen and felt, and it's that subject.

SPEAKER_05 24:23

So the the the commitment is a willful thing, and the connection is a is an emotional thing. And both of those coordinates are critically important to determine the current state of where you land. And so it will put you, there's 13 different states of relationship that we've identified in our research. And uh, knowing that, you know, uh we we often say as in psychology, awareness is curative. Once you become aware of something, now I can do something about it. And why not be aware of the current state of your relationship so you can go, oh, what do I do to stay right here? This is fantastic. Or what do I do to get to this place that looks a whole lot better? And it begins to create that roadmap for you to begin to chart where you'd like to go and discover some new coordinates of love, a new GPS that'll get you to where you want to go.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Oh, well, it's it is great. It was fun to do, and it's I'd love to see this. I can ask my husband to do it. I think Dave, you took it too.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

Yes, yes. Uh, and we're be sure that we will put that on our um our show notes as well. So our our listeners, you've you've got to go take it again, not very long. Yeah, three, four minutes. Uh, and love it. I love that that it's actually, as you mentioned, more uh of state. It's unlike any others, right? Rather than than the traits. So that's it. And you can give that to anybody you want.

SPEAKER_05 25:46

Uh and by the way, it's for singles as well as couples. If you're single, it'll come out and it's a different uh helps you look at your well-being in all your relationships, right, and as well as connections. So um we have had uh oh we haven't even announced this yet, really, in any formal way, and we've already had a half million people go through it. And uh I can tell you that it's a really fun and helpful insight for people to just understand the state of the relationship.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

You guys, man, we sure appreciate you both coming on and sharing so much wisdom that you have um and excited about your new book. I'm it's on my uh to get list, to buy list. Uh, excited for to read this new one. Uh big fans of your work. Hey, before we let you go, we'd like to ask all of our guests, in honor of the name of our podcast, Stronger Marriage Connection. We've talked about connection today. I'd love to hear each of you what you feel is is uh a key to a stronger marriage connection. Leslie, let's start with you.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Well, um I laughter is the shortest uh connection connection point for us. Whenever Les sparks laughter for me, um my whole world is rocked. And so I love it whenever people can be playful.

SPEAKER_05 27:20

For me, I'd say awareness, just becoming aware um of yourself, your own emotional experience and your landscape as well as your partners. Um, it's pretty difficult to have any kind of connection without awareness.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Yeah, love it, you love it. Hey, and before we let you go, is there a take-home message? We call it our takeaway of the day, something you hope our guests will remember from our discussion today. What would that be?

SPEAKER_05 27:46

Well, first, take the uh myheartchart.com. That's a definite concrete takeaway. And second, uh, take some time today uh to be very intentional about putting yourself in your partner's shoes.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Right. That empathy is so powerful, and it takes just a little bit of presence. Sometimes maybe just doing a presence audit. Just am I fully present? Am I distract it inwardly or externally? And make sure you're showing up and you're really there with your attention.

SPEAKER_05 28:17

Set that aside for a second, too, and get off your phone if you want to do that. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Yeah, that's the that digital distractions, right, Liz. Yeah. Liz, what about you? What's your takeaway of the day?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

June, just along those same lines, just how powerful we are as people, how powerful we are as partners, for better or for worse. Damn, what about you, friend?

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Yeah, you know, this whole idea of this attunement, I think Gottman and others have talked about this attunement where you're really this awareness, this understanding, I'm all in paying attention. I like to say lack of attention leads to loss of connection. You've got to be being able to attention to their to their world or you'll you'll just slowly drift apart. So oh man. You guys, it's been uh super fun to have you on again. Thanks so much for taking time out of your your busy schedules to come on and share again with us so much wisdom.

Commitment And Connection Coordinates

SPEAKER_05 29:07

Thanks to be it's great to be with you, and thanks as always for having us. We don't take that for granted, and uh, we just wish you the very best as you continue to help couples in their relationships.

unknown 29:17

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Likewise, less and leslie.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Yes, yeah, thank you. And thanks to our listeners. That does it for us now. We will see you again next time on another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

That's right. And remember, it's the small things that create a stronger marriage connection. We'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment, and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at StrongerMarriageWife and Facebook at Stronger Marriage. So be sure to share with us which topics you loved, which guests we should have on the show next. If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit strongermarriage.org, where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys, and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University, and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.