Stronger Marriage Connection

Unpause Your Marriage To Go From Me to We | Lee Baucom | #167

• Utah Marriage Comission • Season 4 • Episode 167

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0:00 | 40:11

We sit down with Dr. Lee Baucom to unpack the “pause button marriage,” why most couples misdiagnose communication issues, and how small, steady habits and a team mindset rebuild connection. One partner can start the change with curiosity, empowerment, and self-management.

• defining the pause button marriage and its slow costs
• shifting from me and you to a true we
• why connection, not communication, is the core issue
• unpausing with small, repeatable habits of connection
• using invitational pacing instead of chasing
• curiosity as the path to empathy and safety
• self-management to reduce reactivity and blame
• hope’s three parts: where, how, and willingness
• practical tools to rebuild trust and teamwork
• resources, including the Unpause app and site

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Dr. Liz Hale: 

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Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_05

On today's episode, Liz and I sit down once more with Dr. Lee Baucom, and this episode is packed with practical tips from unpausing your marriage to mindset shifts and turning from me to we. Dr. Baucom shares strategies for getting unstuck in unhealthy relationship habits and says it starts with taking a deep look inside ourselves, then turning outward by focusing on your marriage as a teen. Dr. Lee Baucom is internationally known for his methods and approaches to saving marriages. For more than three decades, Lee has been helping people around the world save, restore, and create the marriage they deserve and desire. He is the author of the book How to Save Your Marriage in Three Simple Steps, in addition to six other books. And he's the creator of the highly effective internet marriage program Save the Marriage. Lee is also the host of two popular podcasts, Thrive Nation and Save the Marriage. You can find out more about Dr. Baucom and his resources at Savethemarriage.com. We hope you enjoy the show. Hey friends, welcome to another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection Podcast. I'm Dr. Dave here at Utah State. Alongside our psychologist, Dr. Liz Hell, we are thrilled that you're here. We're excited to be sharing some research and resources, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. All right, Liz, today, man, back by popular demand, we're gonna dive into what really helps couples move from feeling stuck to reconnecting. I love that word, part of our Write the Name of Our Podcast in meaningful ways. Our guest, again by popular demand, is Dr. Lee Baucom, and he spent decades helping individuals shift their mindset, take empowered action, and unpause their marriages. He's back to share fresh practical strategies for healing, rebuilding trust, and creating lasting change, even when only one partner is ready to start. Welcome back to the show, Dr. Lee Baucom. Dave Liz, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00

I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01

And I don't know, Dave, if you remember, but I've followed Dr. Bauckham for decades. Decades. It's funny because we're very similar in our style. And what we think. It's been a while. Lee, it's been a while for both of us to do.

The Pause Button Marriage Explained

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it should be Legend Lee here, is back with us, friends. Yeah, so so thankful uh to have you back. Looking forward to our our discussion, Lee. So let's let's dive right in. Can you share with us with our listeners right up front, Lee, about the the pause button marriage? Can you can you explain, kind of set the groundwork for us? What is a pause button marriage?

SPEAKER_00

Unfortunately, it's what most marriages end up at. Um and it's by accident. I never assume that somebody does this on purpose, or at least they know what's going on. But you know, you get married, and uh, so you've spent all this time uh courting each other and falling in love and deciding you want to make this commitment. You make the commitment, and then life is rolling, and you realize you've got to stop all of that intensity and get back to living. And so you think to yourself, you know, we're gonna have time after things settle down to get back to our marriage and get back to that love that we had. And so you hit the pause button, and it's it may be because um you know we got to be parents, we got to do the kid thing, or maybe I've got to do a career thing, or for some people it's hobbies. Um, you know, they've got some athletic event they want to do or something, and it and it's out there. But what I've noticed is the pause button, once it's hit, it's there's this mission creep on when you get back to it. Um, I used to hear all the time people going, we figured we'd have retirement together. And I'm like, that's a long span, you know, between we got married and had kids to retirement, and they think that they can just kind of wait it out, kind of suspended animation. And um, and so what I, you know, a lot of times it's like, well, once the kids are out of diapers, in school, out of school, in college, out of college, after the grandkid, and it keeps on moving. Um, and part of the reason is because you lose track with each other, and it gets easier to just let that that state sit. And and so I think a lot of times people think that it's kind of like, you know, those science fiction movies where you're you're going to the far planet, so you just go into suspended animation and you get there, you reanimate, and here we are, and they don't realize that um that's not what we relationships do. They either are expanding and growing or they're shrinking and uh disconnecting. And so the pause button is just simply when people thinking that they've got to do life hit the pause and want to come back to us later, only to discover that us evaporated along the way.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Wow, that's powerful. I've never I've never heard that constantly, but man, that yeah, it rings true. I see it. I know that I've I've experienced kind of that pause button at times when, yeah, life gets crazy and hectic. And then we just naturally, you wouldn't even maybe necessarily mean and nasty to each other. We just kind of naturally have drifted and these little, you know, floating down the river of life, and we've kind of distance ourselves uh apart without almost not even realizing it until, yeah, then you go back and you're like, wait, wait, where'd she go? Yeah, it's it's challenging. Wow, thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and unfortunately for a lot of people, um, you know, it's they think that I'm saying that you only have to be about the marriage, you know, every day, all the time. And it's not that. It's just that we have to make sure we have the space for the relationship. And most couples just kind of forget that part. Um, you know, the parenting thing. I've I've watched couples, and and one of the things I've asked them to do is to go out together and they'll come back and like, oh, we, you know, we just we were able to talk the whole time. And I my question is, what'd you talk about? Oh, the kids. I'm like, no, that's you're defaulting back to your paws. And so the challenge is, are you actually connecting with each other?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I love that. So partnerships cannot be paused, right? They just are not without a price anyway.

From Me And You To We

SPEAKER_00

Not without a price. Yeah. And the question is how quick you realize that. Um, so it's not an instant death, it's a slower suffocation, right? And and so you're you're basically cutting off the connection, which I believe is the lifeblood of the relationship. And so it's kind of like the constricted arteries in a heart that's aging, you know, it's it's less and less and less until it it can close off. But uh, that's the challenge is can we get it going again, unpause it again before you get to that point?

SPEAKER_01

Brilliant reminder, Lee. You you also talk, Lee, about these mindset shifts as a real turning point in struggling marriages. What are the most critical mindset shifts that we need to make as couples to move from, let's say, old crisis mode to creating real sustainable connection?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so there's one, and I think it'll probably come up over and over. Um, and it's I'll name it, and you're gonna go, of course. And that is that uh there's a shift from me and you to us, we, as I talk about it. It's the big we. Um, we are in this together, we're a team. Um, that is the number one, um, number one shift and the number one most misunderstood shift because um I I was listening to a podcast not long ago, and they were talking about how you've just got to stay so individual in your marriage. And I'm like, I mean, I know what you're saying. I understand you want to stay as distinct, but you do have to have a mindset that kind of like being on a team. You know, we're on this team together doesn't mean you lose yourself to the mass of the team, but you bring your best self to it, which is the other mindset shift that I think follows up on that, that you've got to keep bringing your best self to it. Um, am I out to keep playing this game even if my teammate is not able to play it 100%? Yeah, maybe they're hobbled a little bit today, and I've got to pick up the pace. Um, I play a lot of pickleball these days, and so that you know, I always think about how do I need to cover for my partner? Um, and how do I understand my partner's weaknesses and strengths? How do I make sure they they keep into their strengths? And uh so we we play as a team. Um, and one thing that teams don't do is they don't tear each other down. So if my partner misses a shot, I'm like, you know, good trial, let's do better. Um I or I set you up, I'm so sorry for that. You know, we I take responsibility for how instead of going, you miss that shot, it's like, wow, that too back was my fault. Um and so having that mindset of being a team, of being a we and bringing your best self are probably the two biggest ones that I think make a difference.

SPEAKER_01

Ah, so so powerful. I remember the day when my husband, Ben, Ben, we were, I don't know, rough toffling about something, upset with each other about something. And he he all of a sudden said, Hey, Lizzie, I I'm I'm on your side, or I've got your back. Something to that. It just woke me up. It's like, you are on my side. You do have you. We are a team here. I sometimes I just needed that little reminder. I got I lost it for a minute. Your unpause concept, Lee, and and now the unpause app, that's very cool, encourages people to take intentional action rather than oh, reacting to fear or frustration like I did the day I just spoke about. You've talked about the pause button marriage. So, what does it mean to unpause a marriage then? Are there some small action steps we can take?

How To Unpause With Small Habits

SPEAKER_00

Well, there have to be. Um, and because you can't go from um really slow to 100 miles per hour. You know, I mean it's there's that that period where you're accelerating. Um, so uh one of the things that I've noticed is that so much of our life is tied up in habit that part of what we're doing is trying to reset the habits. That's why we we in the app we have it as daily reminder pieces. Um and that is because we get out of the habit of relating, um, or we get stuck in the habit of relating about, for instance, the kids or the you know, just the kind of the daily life in the house rather than our connection. Um, so that's that's a big piece is getting people well, first it's letting people know that this is this is what happens. I mean, the number one thing that people have to do is be aware of that, because a lot of times people are stuck in the blame. Like, my spouse is the problem here. And since my spouse is the problem, I'm going to back away. And and so have y'all seen all of the uh articles that have suddenly flooded out about the quiet divorce? Lately. I mean, it's just this is like this buzzword that I and maybe it's because my feet, I mean, as social yeah, you know, my bubble is relationships, and so suddenly all these articles are about quiet divorce. I'm like, this is somebody has coined a term, but this is what they're talking about. You know, you you quiet divorce is I'm I'm still here, um, I but I'm emotionally separated. And um, so that's what we're talking about when what happens with this pause button. And so part of undoing that is recognizing that that's what's going on. That's the first piece. If you don't have an awareness, there's nothing that can shift. And then being uh willing to say, you know what, I find it important enough to step back into this, even if my spouse right now is not. Um and so many times I hear people going, what can I do? My spouse doesn't seem interested or even refuses. Like, what you we always get to choose how we're going to do it. Um so we often talk about the marriage system, and and then we get so stuck in the system piece that we forget that each person is a part of the system that gets to operate as they want to, rather than how they've defaulted to, how they've uh kind of habitualized to. And so awareness is is one and taking responsibility. Um, Jack Canfield, colleague of mine, talks about response ability. I have the ability to respond differently. And I I find that to just nice, you know, play on that word. I've got a response ability. Um, and how do I pivot back to where I want to be? So once we get there, it's a matter of how do we put in the habits of connection again? You know, what are those habits we need to build? Recognizing it's not going to be instantaneous. We don't form habits instantly, we don't break habits instantly. And in this case, we're breaking the habits of disconnection and trying to reform the habits of connection, which by the way, people have already done once. That's how they got here. So we're trying to reawaken those skill sets.

SPEAKER_05

I love that. It takes first this awareness, right? This kind of awakening, and then okay, responsibility. I need to. It's the small things often, right? Gottman often talks about little things. You're adding a cup of connection into that relationship pool.

SPEAKER_03

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_04

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_05

Lee, I love that your work emphasizes that even one partner can begin to, you know, make the call and unpause the marriage. Why is personal empowerment so powerful in relationship change? And what does that look like in practice?

One Partner’s Power And Hope

SPEAKER_00

Well, the power of it is that you no longer have to play the there's nothing I can do. Um, there's nothing more disempowering or uh hopeless building than feeling like you there's nothing you can do. Um Charles Snyder back in the 80s talked about hopelessness or hope, having hope is a formula. And what happens when you don't have one of the three components of hope is hopelessness. And and the the three components, you know, you know, you break it down. One is you've got to have a willingness to to get somewhere. You you have this place you want to get to. Well, let's break it down first too. I have a place I want to go. Um, there's there's this place. I want to have a loving, connected, warm, supportive marriage. Okay, now we have where we want to go. The second thing is you've got to know how to get there. And um, so there are lots of people who want to have that. A lot of people go, I've never seen that in my family. I didn't grow up with that. Um, you know, at uh we we didn't ever create that ourselves, so they don't don't have a skill set. So we can build in some skill sets, but that's that's just learning, right? That's that's the easiest part. We we can find the components and say, here's how you do it. Um and then the third part is are you willing to do it? And personal empowerment is that last piece. Am I willing to do this? Am I willing to take it on? And if you have those three pieces, that's um, that's what they realized created a hope. And if we don't have hope, we're in trouble. Um so building that hope and finding, and so it's you know, in coaching, I work with people and I can just which of those are missing when they're at that that point, which one's gone. And um, and if they're like, I don't have any idea what I would want to get to, we can work on that. The only one that you can't bring to somebody is that last piece of I'm willing to do it. And that's the empowerment piece.

SPEAKER_01

That's nice. So I I just want to go over those three. So the willingness is what I put down for the step step one and the know-how, right? I got a know-how to get there.

SPEAKER_00

And then the third is so let's reverse, let's take the willingness to the end. Okay. And the first one is knowing where you want to go.

SPEAKER_01

Knowing where. Where.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. And then the how. Got it.

SPEAKER_00

How where, how, and willing. Um, that's how it breaks down. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and I love that because it makes it so simple. Um, you know, we have this you have hope or you don't, and it's kind of ethereal and nobody knows how to control it. But if you you know that those are the three pieces, then the question is which one is broken right now? And a lot of times a spouse has lost the um kind of the idea of where to go, or a spouse has lost the idea of you know willingness to get there. Um but if you're able to step back and say, I see where I want to go and I see some ways to get there, and I'm willing to do it, suddenly we're talking about taking those actions. Um, I one of the uh images I always carry is that marriage is always like a dance. You know, you the couples learn their dance steps together and you step on each other's toes for a while, but then you you kind of find a groove. And in this little dance of disconnection, you've kind of stepped away and maybe you're kind of doing the steps again, but you're you might as well be just dancing solo. And so the question is, can you go back in and change the steps a little bit? Maybe make it so that it's something you both want to be a part of?

SPEAKER_01

Nice. Thank you for simplifying it. For me on that, Lee, the the um, oh my gosh, with the where, the where, the how, and the willingness. Okay, can't read my own writing. Thank you. I love it. With your save the marriage system, which is so exceptional, and your work, of course, with countless couples, what are the most common, like a misdiagnosis you see, where the places where we misunderstand the real problem? How does reframing that issue change everything?

Misdiagnosing Communication Versus Connection

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so um that is what happens when we don't realize that the for most relationships, not all relationships, there are just some toxic places and people who are toxic, and that's the root problem. But for the most for the kind of common, ordinary, everyday, unhappy relationship, the roots of it are that they hit the pause button and then everything else spins out from there. So the what they think is going on, um, and you know, this is so common, we have a communication problem. I've had so many people come to my office and say, I we just need to learn to communicate better. And I'll sit there and talk with them for a while and I'll go, I've understood both of you perfectly. There's nothing you said I didn't understand. This is not a communication issue. This is a connection issue. Uh, but they've been told that so many times in different places that it's communication is a misdiagnosis. Um, the one that gets a little sticky for people is uh affairs. Um, because affairs generally, there are some exceptions for addictions and other pieces, but generally, again, ordinary cases, affairs are because of the disconnection that we are so tied into connection that we find ourselves connecting in places we shouldn't, right? The the possibility of connection uh lures people in. And so people go, well, you know, what happened to our marriage? Well, he or she had an affair, and it's generally the secondary piece. The the disconnection was what led to that. Um, those tend to be some of the big ones that you know people see, but then when they're fighting, um, couples often fight, you know, the big five things I hear people talking about are uh kids, religion, in laws, sex, and money. I mean, those are the big five. And if you start looking at that, all of the fights around those are usually about a lack of we are in this. It's my money, your money, instead of our resource. How are we going to deal with our resource? Um, how are you parenting? How am I parenting? Rather than how do we want to be parents in this? Your family, my family, instead of I'm now a part of your family and you're now a part of mine. That's our joint family. Um, you know, you start looking at sex. I mean, there's no more um clear place of we are together than that. But and when it's a what am I getting, what are you getting, who starts it, who uh you know dismisses it or however that is, it ends up being a fight about a physical connection. Instead of talking about our disconnection, it ends up being about that. Um, so all of those five areas tend to just have their roots in disconnection leading to you versus me kind of mindsets.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, man, I'm taking notes here. This is this is good stuff. Yeah, this is awesome. Uh Lee, many of our art listeners, they they they feel stuck. They feel stuck because their partner is is reluctant, they are withdrawn or uninterested in working on the relationship. What are your most effective strategies for helping someone create connection even when their partner isn't currently on board?

SPEAKER_00

So let's talk about one way not to, and that is to become so I have this dynamic, and and I'm I didn't create the dynamic, I just kind of named it. Um it's the chaser, spacer, or pacer. Um, so you know, that's that whole pursuer distancer thing, but you're chasing or you're spacing, it's kind of the dynamic they get into. So we've got this person who wants to reconnect, and they often get into a chaser mindset. I'm gonna pursue this, and they get the exact opposite, their spouse, the spacer at that moment. And by the way, that's not a that that's not a role that people um can't shift out of. Um, and I've seen plenty of people who are spacers until their their chasing spouse finally goes, I give up. And then suddenly they're chasing because what you're trying to do is find a safe distance. And so if I'm running faster, you know, and so it's it's kind of like how close do you follow a car on the highway? Well, you know, you gotta leave some more space if they're coming on you faster. And so that's the same kind of thing. How how close feels safe and how distant feel safe? So um, if they recognize that chasing pattern, one of the differences between that and a pacer is a pacer does invitational kind of things. For instance, hey, I was thinking about going and getting a cup of coffee. Would you like to go with me? And the spouse, instead of going, we need to have a date night, let's go have a date, which feels very chasey if they're disconnected, can say, I'd rather not, at which point I encourage them to say, That's fine, I'll be back and go get their cup of coffee. Um, because you don't want it to be where you're just going, oh, well, I'm not either if you're not going to, because the again, pressure. But to be able to do things like that, I'm gonna go take a walk. Would you like to go with me? I'm thinking about watching that new series. I mean, of all the low kind of chasing things, uh watch a series together. You don't even, I mean, it's side by side, and and that could be a starting point. Um, so doing small things like that. Um, another one that I like, I mean, there's been a lot of controversy over uh lately over the love languages, but I think that's still a foundational kind of help for people, a tool to ask, have I just been not speaking a way of love that my spouse understands? And so kind of understanding that and maybe trying to be a little more intentional about that rather than if they don't understand what I'm trying to show them, then that's their problem. But to recognize that sometimes we want to speak our spouse's love and uh being more intentional about that, those those two kind of approaches of being invitational and trying to make sure it actually hits the mark when you do something. There's nothing more frustrating than thinking you've done something and a spouse is like, I I didn't even I don't know what you're talking about. Um so that's that's when it's helpful to at least have those frames in mind of of how to do that. Yeah, excellent.

SPEAKER_03

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_04

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_01

You know, across your Substack or your YouTube and podcasts, Lee, you are you offer very practical tools for restoring emotional safety and for rebuilding trust. What tools or exercises consistently make the biggest difference do you find, especially maybe in conflict or emotional disconnection? What do you love?

Tools For Safety, Trust, And Curiosity

SPEAKER_00

So uh the first one that I think um is good for people to attend to is their own self-management. Um, you know, if you're exhausted, uh if you're not not if you're not feeding yourself, fueling yourself, resting yourself, de stressing yourself, if you're not doing all of those things, you're bringing a pretty raw instrument into this process. And so self-management, figuring out um how to manage your emotional state, how to not take things personally. Um that's for me is a huge one. I've um had conversation I did martial arts for in my youth and I did jujitsu um uh up until really until we moved, which was about three and a half years ago, I did jujitsu for a number of years. And I remember one of the instructors going, you know, nothing's ever personal. You recognize that when somebody is having a reaction, their reaction doesn't make it personal unless you let it be. And I was sitting there going, that's so true in a relationship. You know, to be able to say, okay, my spouse had a hard day rather than, oh, they think I'm a horrible person, or we're disconnected, and right now our relationship is strained versus I'm a horrible person or they hate me, you know, having those shifts of being able to not just react uh is a major one. And that's the self-management piece. Um if they can do some of the self-management, and and my experience is that when people realize they're in a crisis, their self-management takes a dive. So being able to kind of find some ways of self-soothing, um, of not taking it personally, of taking better con better care of themselves gives them a bit of an edge in how they're reacting. Um, one of the things that I try to help people understand is that everybody has a paradigm. They have a way of seeing the world. And your paradigm doesn't it's not that one's right or wrong, it's they're different. And so how you take in those thoughts is something you can become aware of. Um so you know, having somebody's action uh then allowing that to be your emotional reaction is a pattern that I think we all see constantly with people that instead of going, how do I want to respond to this? They just react to how it made them feel. So that emotional uh reacting and emotional thinking um are certainly great and not very high um targets to hit for people, to be able to go, okay, they've got their stuff. That's I'm not gonna take it personally. Um and to be able to step back a little bit and go, and they're not seeing the world the same way I am. So that brings up one other tool that I love to work with people on, and that's being curious. Um that curiosity, I uh it may be because it's my projection that I am a curious person by nature, but um I find that to be um such a fundamental piece of relationships. And when people say, I don't know how I can be empathetic towards my spouse, my response is be curious. Just wonder how do they see the world? How is it that they're taking it in? How are they processing that? Because curiosity is always what comes before empathy. Um if you can be curious, you can move towards empathy.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_05

That's all good. Lee, after more than I mean, 30 years plus as a therapist and a and a coach, I'm curious what patterns separate the couples who simply stay together from those who truly thrive, right? What mindsets or or habits you've talked about do you do you see in relationships that grow stronger over time?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so we talked about the that thought process. Uh couples who are able to, and and this is always a moving target, but able to see themselves as a team, as a we. Um the thing that that is uh deceptive about that is just because you get there doesn't mean you're always there. Um I what I've determined in in our our marriage, in my marriage, is that there I am I find another thing, right? Like, oh, I'm not thinking about we there. It's it's another opportunity of thinking, how are we a team here? And it keeps coming up. So it's not like you go, oh, got that, check that off, got it going, but it's a lifetime learning piece. Um so that is probably the the biggest determining factor I see in success in a marriage is is having that mindset. Um and and right behind that is um recognizing the choice of how do I want to show up? Who do I want to be in this relationship? Who do I want to be in life? You know, what do I want to bring forward? Um, that that place of of choice. So I choose to be a part of this team. We are a team. How are we going to work together to be that that best team we can be? Not the best team ever. You know, I that's the the myth. People are like, I want to be the best marriage ever. Have a best marriage you want. You know, have the one that you want to have. Don't compare it to others because that comparison is what kills a lot of good marriages. They, you know, they look from the inside on somebody else's outside and go, Well, we don't do that. And I don't know how many people I've had come to me at the end of their relationship going, all of our friends used to always think that we had the best marriage, and they were so envious of our relationship. And I talked to them, I'm like, image was spit shine, but you weren't where you needed to be. And so being real with each other, being vulnerable with each other is a piece of being a team. You know, if you can't be honest with your teammate, it's gonna be hard to have a winning game.

SPEAKER_01

The spit shine. That's a good way to say that. I, you know, I I never know. We I I have a lot of humility, like I don't know what's going on behind closed doors, right? I wouldn't never want to make some kind of determination on happy marriage, unhappy marriage, like you're sitting at church. I I just don't know. Anything is possible behind closed doors.

What Thriving Couples Do Differently

SPEAKER_00

Well, so I've I uh I've had the experience of having several um influencer couples come to me, and I'll watch people like, oh, I oh so envy your relationship. I'm going, you guys have no idea. And and none of us do, right? And you shouldn't have to. And we're such an image-driven culture that it's almost unfair to people. You know, we we have these images of what holidays are going to be like, what parties are supposed to look like, what marriage is supposed to look like, and we lose track of the fact that we should be the ones choosing what works for us and what would make our relationship what we want it to be.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. Love it. Yep. Well, Dr. Buckham, you have so many helpful resources for couples. Can you share more about what your you offer and where our listeners can find out more about you?

SPEAKER_00

So you named the Unpause app. So um unpause your marriage.com is the uh the website. Um that that's a an app that is built to help you. I have built into that a number of things um of exercises and learning experiences, and then it has a feedback loop uh where you can ask questions um and the coach gives you a response based on what it's learned from me. We packed it full of my stuff and then it responds. Um, I tested it out, and I'm like, that's that's got me uh pretty well, which is kind of scary.

SPEAKER_01

But isn't that something? It is kind of scary, isn't it? How well it can capture you, but that is very exciting.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. So they loaded up everything uh uh and they uh tossed stuff at it and it was uh on. So the app is designed to also give you reminders. In fact, that's one of the things that we built into it because you do have to be going, how do I want to break this? And the a lot of times, you know, you get some notification from your phone and you're like, oh, that's so frustrating. And what I wanted to create was an invitation. Like, you're trying to change your habit. And to change your habit, if you haven't logged in, we'll remind you come visit and let's you know take this next step because we want to get this going. So um that app is unpause your marriage.com is uh is the location, and um pretty proud of that one.

SPEAKER_01

You should be. You really should be. We'll put that on our show notes so people can find you more easily.

SPEAKER_03

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_04

And we're back.

SPEAKER_05

Let's dive right in. Well, Dr. Balcom, as we wrap up this episode, we as you know, you've been here before. We like to ask all of our guests a couple of questions. The first one being, what do you feel like is the key uh to a stronger marriage connection?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm gonna sound like a parrot. Being a team. Yeah, being a team, being a we. If if there's one thing that I can uh get people to recognize is being a team, being a we, and choosing to be the best player you can be on that team. You know, really showing up. Those those two pieces are just so fundamental that uh if that's all that people work on, they will be so far ahead of the game. Um that's such a huge piece.

SPEAKER_05

And I think that I mean, often it sounds like easier, you know. Oh, yeah, just you know, it'd be a we but you're you're nailing it right on the head. That doesn't come naturally. And if it was so easy, we wouldn't have all these relationship struggles, right? And so I love that the app causes reminders. I love reminders. Okay, we've got to get back on track that it is, it's it's us, and we we're we're a team um for this because yeah, the natural person inside of us wants to go for the cake first or the biggest slice of this, or where we want to we put ourselves first. So it's not it doesn't come naturally, right?

The Unpause App And Resources

SPEAKER_00

That we so let me add on to that just a little bit because it's such a reminder for me. I was at a conference one time, um, and the the person had us turn every other road, you know, turn to face each other, and they had us put our arms, you know, kind of up like this. And if you you see that, you know, we and and you hold hands together and you're sitting there going, I'm gonna arm wrestle. And this person who was across from me was this woman who was probably a third of my weight and half my height. And I'm sitting there going, and her little frail arm, she was an older woman. I'm like, I've got to arm wrestle this woman. And I was sitting there, and and after the fact, I'm sitting there going, look, think of my mindset immediately immediately. I've got to arm wrestle. And so the instructions were to put the back of the palm to the table as many times as you could. That was that was it. That sounds like arm wrestling to me. And so we started it, and I'm sitting here, I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna just slam her down, but you know, I'll be gentle. And I was so proud of myself. You know, I'd been gentle about this. And after it was over, um, people were like, how many times? And there were these people who were just evenly matched, like, zero. We didn't get any. And the person said the instructions were to do it as many times as you could. Why not cooperate back and forth? Why don't you do that? And I was sitting there going, why is it that when there's two, you click into competitive mode if you're not careful? Win, win.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna win. And so couples are two if they're not aware that it's them out to do the best they can in life. And so that, you know, it's easy to get into that competitive. I'm gonna win this argument. Um, and uh, side note, I was years ago, it was a kind of a Liz, you were talking about that experience before. My wife and I were having a discussion because neither one of us are allowed people. Well, we were discussing something, and she went to do something, and I, you know, my brain was going, Oh, I've got a point. This will this will turn it around. And I followed her downstairs and she was doing laundry or something, and I said, and she said, wait a minute. Before you say whatever you're gonna say, is what you're gonna say help going to help us live a happy life the rest of our lives together or not? And I went, never mind. Yeah, and and that perspective stuck with me of going, is is what I'm about to do, what I'm about to say, how I'm about to act, is that going to further our relationship or distance our relationship? Even if I win, we lose. And that it is that competitive. So being that team and and showing up for the team is that's there's my big one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Even just one winner, right, is is kind of a losing, a loss for both. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We win. Yeah. We lose.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. Well said.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that's that's really good. Um, so as we wrap up, we call it our takeaway of the day. I'm guessing I know your takeaway of the day, Lee. I want you to say it one more time because repetition is how we remember.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Be a we. Be on the team, be a we. Love it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Liz, what about you? What's your takeaway of the day with talking about?

Keys To Stronger Connection And Takeaways

SPEAKER_01

Well, you know, uh, around here we like to say be curious, not furious, right? Dave, I love that. And I Lee, I've never thought about curiosity can lead to me being more empathic. Empathy. So I love that being curious leads to empathy. It's the precursor to empathy. Beautiful. Yeah, I love it. And and Dave, what's your great greatest golden nugget in your takeaway today with Dr.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I wrote down several things, Lee. I know it's that you know, uh, it's where we want to go. It's how am I gonna get there? And then the willingness, and that willingness is that uh I think it feels like it starts with humility, right? I gotta draw, and that's part of that we're I gotta draw me that it takes humility, and am I really willing, yeah, yeah, to do this, or to to start doing more of something or less of something and and do it for us rather than for me. So man. Lee, can't thank you enough, my friend, for joining us again. This has been super helpful. Uh, thanks for for coming on. No, thanks for having me. All right, friends, that does it for us. We'll see you next time on another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection Podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, and we've loved having you join us. Thank you so much for that. And do remember it's the small things that create a stronger marriage connection. See you soon.

SPEAKER_05

Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment, and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at StrongerMarriageLife and Facebook at Stronger Marriage. So be sure to share with us which topics you loved or which guests we should have on the show next. If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit strongermarriage.org, where you'll find free workshops, e courses, in depth webinars, relationship surveys, and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University, and you, our audience, you make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.