Stronger Marriage Connection

Daily Marriage Habits That Can Improve Your Relationship | Meygan & Casey Caston | #171

• Utah Marriage Comission • Season 4 • Episode 171

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We explore a marriage operating system built on small, specific habits that strengthen trust, make time for connection, and turn differences into strengths. Casey and Megan share tools like Love Lists, the KNOWN position, the 60‑Second Blessing, weekly meetings, and a repair-first apology.

• origin of Marriage365 and why access matters
• building a marriage operating system with habits
• tools versus therapy and affordability
• unsolicited apology framework for real repair
• Love Lists and the power of specificity
• weekly marriage business meeting and shared calendars
• scheduling sex without shame and creating ritual
• KNOWN position for focused, safe conversations
• modern pressures of comfort and convenience
• radical responsibility and curiosity over criticism
• leveraging irreconcilable differences as strengths
• where to start: the 60‑Second Blessing

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Dr. Dave Schramm: 

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Dr. Liz Hale: 

http://www.drlizhale.com/ 

Welcome And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_04

In today's episode, Dr. Liz and I are excited to welcome back Casey and Megan Kasten from Marriage 365. We dive into their brand new book, The Marriage Habit, and share practical tips and tools like Love List and the 60 second blessing that couples can start using right away. Just three years into their marriage, Casey and Megan were labeled least likely to succeed and found themselves on the brink of divorce, feeling disconnected and without support. Out of that painful season and the lack of affordable, accessible resources, they created the very thing they wished that had, Marriage 365. Today, Marriage 365 reaches millions of couples worldwide through their app, website, and resources, offering a safe, practical, and judgment-free space for couples to grow. Their mission is simple but powerful. No one should be blocked from strengthening their marriage because of money or privilege. You can find their work at marriage365.com. We hope you enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. We've got the psychologist and the professor. I'm Dr. Liz Hale, along with Dr. Dave Schram, and together we have dedicated our life's work to bringing you the best we have in valid marital research, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. Well, Dave, I think I've told you before in my private practice. I often see couples on the brink of divorce. And they have one question for me. After they've so vulnerably shared their hearts and spilled out a variety of fears and a complicated history, they're always asking me, aren't we just the worst couple you've ever seen? It's so tender-hearted. These beautiful couples, they're in pain and they so much want relief from the misery, but they don't know where to start. So talk about an honor to see them. Such a gift. Well, one of our favorite couples does get it, and they're back with us today. Just three years into their marriage, Casey and Megan found themselves at rock bottom. They were, I don't know who voted them this. It's kind of tongue in cheek, but they were voted the couple least likely to succeed and on the brink of divorce. Without affordable or accessible resources to guide them, they really struggled through trial and error to try to rebuild a connection and restore their relationship really all on their own. Well, their journey became the love and inspiration behind their platform, Marriage 365, inspiring couples around the globe to strive and thrive. What they have built leaves me spellbound. Welcome back to Stronger Marriage Connection, Casey and Megan Caston.

SPEAKER_08

Thank you so much for having us. Glad to be back.

SPEAKER_01

And while your second book is out now, it's February, The Marriage Habit.

SPEAKER_07

Yes.

The Marriage Operating System

SPEAKER_01

Speaking of books, thank you both for being open books to all of us here on Stronger Marriage Connection. You are sheer joy and inspiration. For starters, I love the marriage habit. I read it in one fell swoop. And it's really more of a handbook on how to implement a marriage operating system, which I think is so fascinating, similar to a business operating system that companies often use, right, to ensure their success. Describe to our listeners and viewers a marriage operating system. And how do we even begin to design one ourselves?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so the idea came because I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and they create success in their lives, in their business, by being very intentional, by creating an operating system to manage people, cash, execution, and strategy. So think like KPIs and when are we doing strategic thinking and what's our company culture look like? And that creates all of this success. And oftentimes that terminology is a business operating system. Like what's the code that we're going to operate off of to create and handle success and scalability? And the idea is, you know, when Megan and I, when we were at rock bottom, we realized we had just been winging it in marriage. We had fallen for all the popular myths of love is all you need, and if it's true love, it shouldn't be this hard. And we just hoped and wished and fantasized that we're just gonna eventually arrive at a happy marriage. And the turning point really became when we started being intentional in our marriage and finding like what are the healthy habits of thriving couples? And early in our coaching practice, we realized, gosh, you know, we would never run a business off hopes and whims, right? So why would we treat the most important relationship we have on this planet with such cavalier, just you know, whatever happens, like we're not being intentional or purposeful or proactive. And so, you know, probably the ladies don't find the romance in a marriage operating system, but when I do talk to husbands, they make that connection really quickly, like, oh, if I were to create these systems, these healthy habits into my marriage, I can actually create success and connection and friendship and all the fun and the loving feelings.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. I I was really touched the beginning of your book where you were describing a typical um tussle between you and Megan was at the at the at the um stove, I think, cooking, had a baby at her feet, and you would just come in and said she just said, Are you gonna help? And I just love case that you said is like, I I just don't want to do this anymore. I I want us to be better than this. And Megan, you agreed, and that was just such a a tender beginning. Um, and I think we could have that beginning probably at any time, right? When we get stuck. Like, I don't want to do that. Can I have a do-over? Can I start again? A little bit like a repair.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah. I I think that we when we're hurting, it feels very hopeless. Like you said, couples are coming to you and they're saying, Are we the worst you've ever seen? And in their minds, they're thinking they are. We thought the same thing. Is this all there is? It has to be better. People would have stopped getting married thousands of years ago if it was this bad, right? Like, who signs up for this? There wouldn't be shows like The Bachelor and The Bachelorette. Like, if we all want this happening ever after, there's actually ways to get there. And I think that Casey and I, we have found there are these certain habits, these certain behaviors, I guess you could say an operating system that really are effective and for anybody. Like there, you don't have to have a degree in marriage. You don't have to be a sociology major, a psychiatry major. You know, you you can be just the average everyday couple because that's who we are too.

Tools Vs Therapy And Access

SPEAKER_04

And I love that you guys have said that even in the past, that the couples that don't necessarily need more marriage therapy. It has its place for sure, but they need more marriage tools. So please unpack for us, uh, Megan and Casey, what you mean by that and why are habits the game changer?

SPEAKER_08

Can I start by saying we are huge advocates for individual therapy? I think everybody in their lifetime, if they can afford it, if they can find someone, I think it's the most amazing gift that you can give yourself. Um, with that said, couples therapy is tricky. And that's not just because, you know, there's bad therapists out there. Well, there are bad therapists, but to get three people in a room aligned with just scheduling can be really difficult, right? Um, and then just having a 50, 60 minute session, you know, it's sometimes it takes 20 minutes to kind of unwind after the day and being with the kids, and then you're like, you're just getting into it, and then it's time to leave. So there's so many different facets. And I think, again, knowing that it's very expensive, there's a lot of couples who are already under financial stress, and then to add that component. And so that was one of our biggest issues was that we couldn't afford the therapy that we really needed. And we felt very discouraged that there wasn't a lot of resources. Now, this was pre-social media, pre-podcast, by the way. So there just wasn't a lot of resources when we were trying to rebuild our marriage. But what we've discovered is that a lot of couples think that therapy is the only option. And what we'd want to say is it's one option of many, and that there are healthy habits, like we talk about in the book, that can very much so help your relationship.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. And then I want to add this is that, you know, when we get about two to 300 DMs a day, I mean, we're hearing stories all the time of couples that are coming to us saying, like, hey, we've been we've been in therapy for years. We've spent thousands of dollars and we haven't seen the results because we go into the office and we just hash out all the painful moments of the past week. And so what we see in marriage is marriage is like this for it's like this train that's like shoving you in the very, you know, small of your back that's pushing you forward. And, you know, as a couple leaves that therapist's office, they've got to make another 50 decisions in the next couple of days on how to parent, how to do meal plans, what where we're spending our money. So the tools provide kind of this framework by which we can continue to do in life with some structure. And even how do we repair, right? Because just ruminating over that painful past is not helpful until we start going through that process of repairing.

SPEAKER_01

You know, as a marriage therapist, I might be able to help with the foundation of how do how do we get here? What where does childhood play a role if it does? And where's attachment? But to then have a gift of like the two of you and your platform marriage 365, and now this great new book on habits. I mean, what a gift for someone in my position to be able to give to couples and direct them. So I'm so grateful.

SPEAKER_02

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_03

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

Quick-Impact Habits That Connect

SPEAKER_01

You say that it's the small and simple things that matter more in marriage than the large grand gestures. So of the 10 habits in your book, uh, which one would you say might most quickly transform a connection between couples? Do you have a favorite?

SPEAKER_08

I know you have your favorite.

SPEAKER_05

I I have my favorite, and it's probably the main activity that I find myself doing in couples coaching.

SPEAKER_08

Oh, wait, she said like for a quick connection.

SPEAKER_05

For a quick connection? Yes. Or anything.

SPEAKER_01

Or whatever. I want to know what you're gonna say, Casey.

SPEAKER_08

Sorry. Okay. And then I think I know where he's going. I know his favorite habit.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I'm gonna say the most powerful habit that we teach in that book is an unsolicited apology. Because that's the actual work of repairing the relationship. Now, tools are super helpful. Like when in the hands of a skilled carpenter, a hammer is like a great tool. In the hands of a crazy man, it can be a weapon. But what we need to do is we really have to work through some of the pain of the past. And when we clear that up, then that provides an opportunity for us to find connection and use these tools in a healthy way. So personally, for me, I love the framework that we teach with apologies. And I've as I've led Cubbles through that, to see the pain of the past disappear like magic tricks is so uh it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_07

Give us a sample.

SPEAKER_06

A sample. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

That apology. I know I remember the not the word but we delete but. Yes.

SPEAKER_08

Because if you say but, like I'm so sorry, I hurt you, I was on my phone, I made you feel not prioritized. All right, but babe, my boss was gonna call me. The moment you say but, you just wiped away and invalidated your spouse's feelings.

SPEAKER_05

All right, in the spirit of vulnerability, uh, this is an apology I just recently gave to Megan. Um, and it was around the matter of finances in our marriage. And so one of the things that um we just kind of weren't seeing eye to eye an alignment, and then that kind of created some mistrust, actually. So I came to Megan uh towards the end of 2025 and I gave her an apology that sounded like this.

SPEAKER_06

You know, I'll look at you and say it.

The Unsolicited Apology Framework

SPEAKER_05

Um I am sorry for uh not playing as a team when it comes to our finances and making decisions without your knowledge or without communicating with you, making you feel like I'm living this independent life, I'm not part of your team, we're not finding alignment and common ground, and even the the distrust that can happen. And and for that, yeah, I was wrong. That was that it created all this tension in our marriage, and that's not something I I want. Um, how can I make this better?

SPEAKER_08

And then we had a very long conversation about practically how are we going to change this behavior so that this rupture doesn't continue to happen in our marriage, so that there is alignment, and we brainstormed a ton of ideas. Yep. Um, and then you asked the last question of the apology, which was Will you forgive me? And I did because I'm really grateful that he owned it, that there was accountability, that he was trying to repair and he recognized that's the unsolicited part. He recognized on his own that he had hurt me. Not intentionally, but he did.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08

And uh with that, we have already there's been so much more alignment with our finances. It's been incredible.

SPEAKER_05

Well, and we just posted on a Friday night, like, what are we doing on Friday night? We had a two and a half meeting, two and a half hour meeting of us just talking through finances, upcoming purchases, where we want to go in 2026, what kind of money we want to set aside, and finding the and that was him rebuilding trust with me because he wasn't willing to do that.

SPEAKER_08

He's the spender and I'm the saver. So I'm always willing to be like, let's talk about our money and where we can save. And he's like, let's just go have fun and go to Hawaii. And I'm like, well, we don't have all the money to just go to Hawaii. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I could offer a similar apology, Casey. So I really appreciate your modeling that for me. I can see, or I have a little guilt in that regard, living or acting a little single or independent. Yep. I get it.

SPEAKER_04

Megan, what about you? A habit from the from the book.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah. Um probably one of my favorite habits is called love lists. And it's really behind this idea of that we all give and receive love differently, similar to Gary Chapman's five love languages, right? But that we make a lot of assumptions that our spouse should just know how to love me. I've told them or they used to do it. How do they not know? And I always say, you know, for Casey, he's really good at words of affirmation. He writes me letters, he writes me thoughtful text messages and postcards. And while I appreciate it, words of affirmation is a zero for me. I'm like, I just want you to unload a dishwasher. I just want you to help put the kids to bed. I'm an acts of service person. And so we were loving each other the way we wanted to be loved for years.

SPEAKER_05

I showed up as the biggest cheerleader, like, you're the most amazing person in the world.

Love Lists And Specificity

SPEAKER_08

And I'm like, just go do something off of my to-do list. Come on. So the idea around love lists is creating your like writing down, we say at least 10 ideas, very specific. Specific is terrific with marriage. They do the same thing, they make their own love list, and then you switch the lists. Now you have a cheat sheet on how to love your spouse the way that they want to be loved. And in the book, we give hundreds of ideas.

SPEAKER_01

I love the four steps. Be specific, positive, realistic, and measurable. Because that too was my favorite part of your book.

SPEAKER_08

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah. I think I may have told Casey that, but I just thought it was great.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, because I think a lot of people say, I just need you to show up more. I need you to love me more. I need you to listen. I need you to listen exactly. I need you to listen more. I need you to initiate more. We are very vague in marriage. And this is part of the marriage habit, the operating system. We have to be more specific and not base our love and how we show up off of assumptions. And it's okay that there Hollywood is very big on portraying this. You should just know it should be organic and all natural. And I'm like, here to tell you, for most couples, that's not the case. And there's nothing wrong with you if you need to be specific and say, hey, I love it when we're watching football. And you reach for my hand. Let's start saying that way. How different would we show up in marriage if we had the confidence to say this is exactly a love list that my husband and I can show up confidently to say this is how he wants to be left?

SPEAKER_05

And we would call that pushing, pushing those things down the funnel of specificity. At the very top, it's very vague, but at the very bottom, it's like, what evidence will you have to convict your spouse that they're operating off your love list? Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04

Ah, love it, love it. Because it takes yeah, the guessing out of it and the assuming. And then just you say, and I think I I would be very appreciative knowing, okay, specifically, yeah, what is it that that I can do? Because I think a lot of I'm gonna say, man, you know what? Let me know. I I'll do anything for you, all right? You just let me know. And so the list, it's gotta be just so helpful. I love it, love it, love it.

SPEAKER_08

Dave, I'm gonna say to that, because you just brought up the gender thing, you are 100% accurate. As we have done love lists with thousands of couples over the years. We've tested this, tried this, and the husbands, most of the habits in this book the husbands really like. And I think that that is something that if any of your listeners are leaning in right now, is that men typically, I find, are very much so like, just tell me what to do. I love my wife. I want to please her, I want her happy, I want us to have connection. But I feel like I'm missing the mark. And I feel like my wife is not specific. And then there's this frustration. And so men typically just avoid, or they do the same things that they've been doing, hoping for different results, which is the definition of insanity. And I feel like this gives men so much confidence to be able to know how to love their wife well. And when we wrote this book, we were specific with making sure it was for men and women. As many marriage books are written just for women. We did not want that. We went to Ping and Random House and said, please allow us to write to men too. And they said, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

Love that you have done that, you guys. Hey, in your work with so many couples through marriage 365, I'm curious, what patterns do you see in modern relationships? Because there's so many new different things than even a few years ago, right? That they make marriage feel harder than ever before.

Modern Pressures: Comfort And Convenience

SPEAKER_05

Great question. And it is interesting to pull out like the macro lens of like where where is society? Like, what's the common threads that are actually starting to impact the way we do relationships? And this one stands out very clearly to me. We have created our lives around comfort and convenience, right? Quicker, faster, just take this pill and all this will go away. Stick this in the microwave, and it's an easy dinner. And we've been doing that, whether it's use this technology to save yourself some time. So we're chasing after like optimizing our life around comfort, around convenience.

SPEAKER_06

Here's the truth relationships are about discomfort often and not convenient.

SPEAKER_05

So what I'm seeing for a lot of relationships is what's comfortable is avoiding issues. What's comfortable is coming home and just watching a show and binge watching. Uh what's comfortable is is really not leaning in into like these difficult conversations that we need to have in relationships like boundaries within laws, which insurance plan should we pick? Who's gonna be doing what chore? Those aren't convenient, are comfortable. And so it was funny enough, we just did an event last night and someone said to us, you know, uh, we're just really just waiting for that time to arrive for us, but we never can find time for us. And it was like just with this gentlest, softest blow, we just said, that's because you're not making time. Time does not just magically show up. And so what can happen is we we kind of tend to settle in and we're becoming more emotionally lazy. Yeah, I would agree. Wow. Powerful.

SPEAKER_01

You can't just put a marriage on a on a bookshelf, right? Like a book and hope it stays there because it won't. Yeah.

Radical Personal Responsibility

SPEAKER_08

calendar is a reflection of what we value and who we value. And if your marriage matters, you're going to make the time for it. You will say no to other things. So you can say yes to each other. And that is definitely something that we've seen wanting comfort, easy. We're too busy. So it's not like they're purposefully hurting each other or growing apart. It's actually like these small daily decisions that are slowly making couples fall out of love and grow apart.

SPEAKER_04

It takes this intentionality, this responsibility, this accountability you know, we love how you emphasize personal responsibility inside marriage. What are the areas that we need to be accountable on as partners?

SPEAKER_08

Well absolutely number one I think should be your response to any kind of communication or conversation you have with your spouse. I always tell women and men I work with your response is your responsibility. And if you don't like how you responded then go inward and go, hmm, why did that trigger me? Why did I yell? Why did I shut down? Why did I want to give my spouse the finger? You know, and really there's empowerment behind there because we're all broken and messy people. We're all not going to respond perfectly every time but your response is also reflecting something's going on in you. So while you can control your spouse and their response and their words and their attitude you have 100% control over your words, your forgiveness, your attitude, your tone, your nonverbal communication. And that is something I would say think about the last couple conversations you had with your spouse and how you responded to them. And are you happy with how you responded? You disappointed are you confused and lean in and be uncomfortable and be honest with yourself.

SPEAKER_04

I love radical responsibility that's what it takes. Love it.

Calendars, Sex Dates, And Weekly Meetings

SPEAKER_01

Nice dude we'll be right back after this brief message and we're back let's dive right in back to calendars I wanted to ask you can you tell us a little bit about your calendars I remember something about Wednesdays right Wednesdays the kids are gone oh yes quite literally yes Wednesday our kids go to youth group and we schedule sex.

SPEAKER_08

Now to clarify we also make that a date night so there's foreplay and dinner and usually a walk with a dog or a card game but we say no to everyone and everything every single Wednesday night because the kids are out of the house for two hours and it's phenomenal. And we love we look forward to Wednesday nights. We save a little bit more energy on Wednesdays so that we can give each other that time in the evening.

SPEAKER_05

I do also want to say that you know during one of my other favorite habits, I mean I'd like I got 10 habits they try to pick your favorite child. Yeah I love them all but the weekly marriage business meeting again is one of those habits where we've implemented and we've taught thousands of couples, millions of couples this habit and the stories we get back are so powerful that when they this is a habit that is introduced where at the beginning of the week we're being proactive at looking ahead and like inserting like when are we going to have connection time? When do we have self-care time when are we going to have family time? Oh my gosh, look at this day and all the responsibilities we're carrying let's make sure that we're gracious with each other. Oh look at we've got some some holes in the calendar what would be the most important thing for us to do and it just gives us that visibility and um one of the things I mean if you looked at our calendar it looks like a rainbow threw up all over it because it's got all of these designations and who's going where what time reminders activities that we're doing podcasts we're on and um it just allows us to create space for what's the most important thing in our life and what are the things that we need to move forward work-wise but also with family rather than allowing life to just kind of carry us away with the tides that may not be going in the direction we would want to.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah. So we are advocates for scheduling sex because just like anything else that's a priority sex to us is a priority. Now here's the thing we we are just those people maybe it's the season of life we have two teenagers where if we don't schedule it just rarely happens. And so that's just where we're at. And so we always tell people you know if you if you're having spontaneous sex then you don't need to schedule it. But if you're struggling and you're like man we just don't have it enough and we want to make sure we have it more consider it and don't knock it until you try it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. There's a typical day it's got everything. Yeah wow look at that yeah and and that level intentionality is a discipline and it's a habit that at first is hard awkward weird well that you're feeling tension I feel all the structure but as soon as you recognize that within the constraint within the discipline you actually experience freedom well now we'll fight if we don't do it.

SPEAKER_08

So now it's just a non-negotiable every Sunday night nine o'clock we sit down and look at our entire week. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Nice good for you. And I'm sorry I kind of missed that picture. So do you do something is it an online is it like a Google calendar we are both tapped into tell me what's your what do you use?

Shared Calendars And Single Source Of Truth

SPEAKER_05

Yeah so we have a shared calendar where like for example I have Megan's email address loaded into my phone and I just turn on the calendar and everything else off. So that way I see her world and then same thing she's got my email address and she sees my world and really what's the most important is that we have this like we call it a single source of truth. Like this is our calendar we're both looking at it we're both putting and putting parts of our day into it and that way actually when we're apart I know what her day looks like and for example you know heard this so many times from couples I try to text him throughout the day and then he doesn't respond back to me. It's like well do you know what's happening in his world he may be in a meeting he may be in a strategic call like there there's lots of things going on like angry that their spouse isn't texting them back right away. It's like well so now we have like I have awareness of my day and I have awareness of Megan's day.

SPEAKER_01

That's pretty cute. I have a very old fashioned calendar still kind of embarrassed to admit but but it is I mean I do I love his daytime. I can't help it.

SPEAKER_08

I can't help myself and uh my husband I'll catch him before he leaves town he he works for United and he'll bring his phone over and he'll take a picture of my weekend yeah I really I I appreciate that that means a lot to me I think there's apps out there but I mean if you have like we both have iPhones it's very easy to do you can just chat it and say chat GPT tell me how to add just my my spouse's calendar not their email it it it there's videos and tutorials but yeah there's there's so many resources now with technology and and listen if you have a paper calendar and you take pictures and you find a way and it works for you great. Just make sure our advice would be just to align and make sure you're doing something together.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. I really love that I appreciate that um Megan Casey is there one habit that might have surprised you both and how transformative it became in your own marriage perhaps you've already mentioned that but love to hear more about these habits.

Surprising Habit: The KNOWN Position

SPEAKER_08

I know mine who who do you want to go first? Oh you go ahead Megan okay mine would be the known position okay it's actually your very first habit that acronym I love it it's not a sex position people ask all the time what I don't know that position that wasn't in my promise teacher book uh the known position is an acronym K-N-O-W-N because and it stems from the fact that we all want to be known and our spouse wants to be known but we do life side by side. So this is actually all about nonverbal communication more than anything else which is so powerful as you both know. And we do side by side we drive in the car side by side we watch TV by side by side we typically you know we're in bed on our phones or reading a book side by side we brush our teeth side by side and rarely do we actually turn towards each other. And so the known position is this idea that you know we walk you through in depth but it's like knee to knee open body language turning off all distractions but what we've seen because we do this at marriage retreats and we do this with couples coaching there's like the defenses just come down instantly when you get in the known position the the healing the feeling safe like emotionally seen and safe it's an instant with the known position that would be I've been surprised at how many people have come to us to say it doesn't even matter what we're talking about but when we're in the known position we're already connecting it's powerful.

SPEAKER_01

Knees knees is what I remember are you okay sharing is it okay Megan and Casey to give this away yeah the acronym yeah please knees I know starts with K knees and then knee and knee so you're literally taking two chairs so that you can't really do it on a couch.

SPEAKER_08

It's pretty hard. So you want to you want to be in chairs so knee to knee in is no distractions no phones no kids don't have the TV on in the background don't be cooking dinner okay um oh is open body language as men and women we often cross our arms ladies like to cross their legs while we get it it really sends a message of I am closed off emotionally even if you're not unfortunately nonverbally that's what it communicates so we would say open arms you could even put your arms on their knees um you know and then yeah ladies make sure your legs aren't crossed and then W is bring your whole self yeah don't be thinking about your to-do list or your work or the kids just come you've already put yourself in the known position bring your whole self emotionally spiritually mentally and physically present and grounded be present yeah like don't don't share only half truths just be there so it's like being there with your whole self emotionally but also physically and then the last in and the known acronym is nurturing eye contact. So this isn't like glaring or like I roll you know this is how often do couples really look at each other in the eyes which is so vulnerable so very healing and very powerful. And what's the quote you always say the eyes are the window of the soul yeah eyes are into the window into the soul into the soul yeah so and if you're disconnected oftentimes we avoid that eye contact because we don't want to see right now feeling like love or safety and in the book we say you know listen that's the acronym if it's too much focus on one or two of the parts of the known position. Maybe eye contact like our son's autistic eye contact is very uncomfortable for him. So maybe if your spouse is uncomfortable with eye contact focus on the knee to knee and the no distractions anything of the known position is going to take your communication up a level because you're probably not not already doing those things.

SPEAKER_05

I think that was brilliant and um Casey what about the most surprising one was um you know it kind of we opened up the chapter with this idea that every day thousands of couples get divorced and tick the box that says irreconcilable differences. And I'm here to say that every single couple has irreconcilable differences. That's right. Megan and I have a lot of differences and I think that one that really like shocked me was successful thriving couples know how to leverage the differences and and view them as strengths rather than liabilities. Here we are trying to make a perfect reflection of ourselves in our spouse but that's actually not helpful. That's not beautiful. It's frustrating it's defeating and and it's like it's like this imagine you go see a band with four members and they're all playing the bass and they're all playing the same tone. That would be interesting for about 30 seconds and then we're like what? So the idea that music actually is that everyone's playing their own different melody right the bass player's playing something different than the guitar than the drums and when they all come together there's this beautiful harmony. And so when we leverage masculine and feminine energy when we mask uh you know leverage this idea of being a visionary versus someone who executes on a plan, someone who's very organized and someone who's very spontaneous rather than letting that destroy that's actually something really beautiful and beautiful for our marriage and beautiful for our kids to see those two kinds of energies at play.

Turning Differences Into Strengths

SPEAKER_01

Irreconcilable differences. But celebrate it's an orchestra that's beautiful John Gottman talks about that right he says 69% of our differences are perpetual yep couples get so distracted on 69% on my board that I just changed it to 70. I just bumped in they wanted to know they were just stuck on that but uh they are perpetual those differences are just they're not gonna but they're not gonna change but how we come at them that is what could change how we treat each other and the difference. I think that's really nice. Well my favorite tip we've already said it was um was um what um what you said megan same thing about love list I just had not thought of that before I've not really ever been a fan of the the love languages it's not something I give out just because we are so different right and I didn't find it nearly as helpful but the way you do it I think that's really brilliant. And love languages I'm not knocking it boy isn't that one of the best sold books around and I love the forward on your book from from that author his name again Jerry Chapman thank you so much that he's a fan of yours as well so we we love that but I just love that you took it further so well done on that.

SPEAKER_04

Yes I love it. Megan as you as you were talking about the excuse me the you know the known position and being right all in and maybe even think sometimes at work so I'm not with my wife but when she calls I find that um talking with her I literally have to like turn away from my computer screen roll my chair back because there's so many so many distractions especially if you're not face to face out sometimes I'll have to close my eyes because there's so much in my office and just focus on her because I think the greatest gift you can give your spouse is not necessarily your time it's your attention you're all in attention I'm locked in just on you and yeah my hand there are no distractions or anything else I love that that position because it is yeah eye to eye locked and and I'm with you. So ah love it. And even at work right you can't have all of them but man I've got to be able to when I'm talking with my wife to really remove the distractions.

Where To Start: 60-Second Blessing

SPEAKER_08

Yes yes and I think that even the fact Dave that you notice that about yourself that you you you can be easily distracted is so powerful and that shows self-awareness right because I think so many of us think that we can multitask. And regardless if you think you're doing a good job, it's a great question to ask your spouse do you feel like I give you my undivided attention? Oh wow and just now you got to be willing to hear their answer but here's the thing going back to that uncomfortable conversation you hopefully you'll learn something from it. And I asked mom I think I can multitask very well. And what I love about a lot of these habits in the book is that you can actually do them with your children. So we have two teenagers they're very distracted but I will get in the known position with my kids as best I can, you know, and be like when they're when they're struggling or when they want to talk or when I want to talk about something serious. And it's amazing the comfort level again defensiveness defensiveness and even just the noise the mental load that we have in our heads kind of just starts to come down and you're like okay we're present with one another right now you're the only person in the room that matters right now.

SPEAKER_04

It's powerful we'll be right back after this brief message and we're back let's dive right in see you know some of our listeners may be thinking right now like man I could use that or this and they may be you know feeling this overwhelm and then they're like ah where do I even start you guys if you if a listener is like what's where do I start what's the first habit you might encourage them to to focus on I would say probably we call it the 60 second blessing.

SPEAKER_08

Ooh yeah I think it's one of the we actually we we had a lot of conversations about should the known position come first or the 60 second blessing we went back and forth because the idea around it anyone can get behind. And it's this habit where for 60 seconds you're communicating things that you love, appreciate and acknowledge about your spouse and then for 60 seconds they do it back to you. But in the book we talk about it's great to write it just start writing it and then you can rate your list because people get very nervous having to verbally say those things. And I think that we just have so much transactional communication in marriage did you pick up the dry cleaning what's for dinner hey the the garbage disposal's broken can we fix that we don't get enough opportunities to speak positivity and love. And it's not that it's not there. I believe with most couples it's there. We just don't make the time for it and this is that 60 second or two minute habit that you can do. And so even if you write out five to seven things you love about your spouse and you send in a text message start like bare minimum that will completely change the dynamic that day of your relationship. And we do not want to make assumptions that our spouse knows we love them that they know we care that they know that I think they're sexy. No, they don't know I'm here to tell you they probably don't know and even if they do know they need to hear it over and over again. And so I just think that that would be a great habit a great starting point for anyone listening bring some positivity to the relationship.

Turning Insight Into Action

SPEAKER_04

And that's why I love your book because it's full of these intentional you know little magical micro uh fixes and tips that can help people because otherwise people wouldn't think to do that. But if you actually point this out to them, all right no, I don't know any couple without having read it or heard it from somewhere that's going to sit down and say hey we're gonna write some things we love about each other and stare each other in the eyes. Like people don't do that. So that's why listeners you got to get the book because it's chuck full of all kinds of intentional these habits, these things that you can start doing to get out of the rut.

SPEAKER_05

And you know can I just say that Liz said earlier it's like a handbook and I I actually really connected with that comment because I think what Megan and I are all about is turning insight into action. It's like that's great we can postulate principles and theories around relationships but what is it going to look like on a Tuesday morning? What's that what are we actually going to be doing? And that turning that insight into action is really where the idea of of these habits like you could read the the book cover to cover okay or you could just drop into that habit sounds interesting let me like this week I'm just gonna focus on one habit.

SPEAKER_01

Don't over so don't overwhelm yourself like I got to implement 10 habits at the same time but you could use that chapter as like this is the handbook of which I'm gonna use I'm gonna implement this this week and this is the one habit we're gonna work on and that to me I feel is like that accessibility of not feeling like overwhelmed or like well what does that look like you know some some theoretical thing that now I have to figure out my friends Casey and Megan Kasten you've got marriage365 your platform you've got a podcast well done you've got marriage books where can our friends here on Stronger Marriage Connection find out more about you and all these tremendous resources you offer.

Resources And Free App

SPEAKER_08

Yeah just head to marriage365.com and all of our tools and resources are there Um, a great place to follow us is on social media, whatever platform you're on, just search Marriage 365. And then we would always encourage anyone. We have a free app. It's great. It's 24 hour, you know, care and help. Um, and and that's just go to your app store and search marriage 365.

SPEAKER_01

Such a catchy title. Aren't you glad you did that, Marriage 365? It's wonderful.

SPEAKER_08

Thank you, God. I'm telling you, it kind of came to my mind, and I'm like, we're married 365 days a year. There's no occasion. And what would it look like to be intentional 365 days a year? So thank you for that. That's very sweet of you.

SPEAKER_01

We like our name. I do too. I do too. And the word is out. People are knowing about it. It's fun. It's fun when I hear that from clients.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I know them. I follow them. It's like you do. Well done. Well done, everybody. Clients and you. Well done.

SPEAKER_08

Well, you know, one of our big goals would be to always be a resource for therapists and people working with couples because we have so many and we are online and they're affordable. So that while they're going to therapy, our encouragement is to say, hey, we can be another opportunity for the couple to continuously be talking and thinking about marriage and themselves.

SPEAKER_01

It's a beautiful connection. I'm going to do that more often, Casey and Megan. You're going to do that more often, right here. And make a commitment. Make sure.

Keys To A Stronger Connection

SPEAKER_04

As we wrap up our conversation today, uh, would love to know in honor of the name of our podcast. You guys have been here before. A key. Do you have a key to a stronger marriage connection that comes to your mind? And you may not remember what you said last time, so you get totally clean slate and uh and uh say whatever you like.

SPEAKER_05

What what do you think? Uh, you know what? I go back to our tagline as kind of a north star and a center point that if you want to make a better marriage, it starts by making a better you, which is an empowering statement to say um it's not true that you're stuck, your spouse won't participate, there's nothing I can do. There's actually a ton that you can do. And so I while it does kind of, I would say, suck, because that means like you can't blame your partner, um, I love this position of empowerment to say, I can work on myself. I have agency in my world, and that's empowering. Yeah, what about you then?

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, I think for a stronger marriage connection, um, I would say choose curiosity over criticism. Choose curiosity over defensiveness. It will go so far in your life about everything. We get so hurt and we want to defend ourselves, we want to be critical. But choosing curiosity really opens the door to learn. We all should be learning every single day about ourselves and our partner and the world around us. And I I'm seeing this trend of closed-mindedness and um very black and white thinking. And that's very dangerous in relationships because there is a lot of gray area and there's a lot of unknown. And I think that if we we showed up with a curious mind and a curious heart, I do believe a lot of marriages would succeed.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah, well, so you love it. What about a take-home message? And it may be something similar. We call it our a takeaway of the day. Something that you hope our listeners will remember from our discussion today.

Takeaways, Hope, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_05

Uh, success comes from being proactive and intentional in our lives. And I want you to know like the most uh if we want to win where it matters most, it's great that you've created success and maybe in your career or in other different domains. But don't neglect being intentional and and even if it feels unromantic, to lean into how do I create structures inside of my marriage and rhythms that that mean that like every week we know we're gonna connect or have sex on Wednesdays, right? You know, um, and and creating that rhythm. That to me is like that intentionality is one of those pieces where, again, if we want to go towards convenience and comfort, that's kind of like the opposite of being intentional. Yeah, love it.

SPEAKER_08

I would love yeah, I'd want anyone listening to know that they should never feel bad if they don't know what to do. That the desire to have a good marriage is a wonderful thing, but now we have to go act on it. And obviously, in our book, we give you habits. I know you guys on your podcast give these things, but it's don't ever feel ashamed or embarrassed because you don't know what you're doing, because a lot of us don't know what we're doing. We didn't know what we were doing. And I just think there's so many people listening that just feel very alone and embarrassed and ashamed. And I just want to tell you, you don't have to live that way anymore. And that there is hope and there are resources, and there are people like all four of us that want to help you, and there are solutions.

SPEAKER_04

Wow, wow, well said, both of you. Yeah, Liz, what about you? What's your takeaway of the day with Casey and me?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I love the marriage habit handbook. I just think it's exceptional. And maybe the my favorite thing that I've heard today, we've discussed and read, of course, in your book is my response is my responsibility. As you say, Dave, that radical responsibility. Beautiful. Dave, what about you, my friend? Did I take yours?

SPEAKER_04

No, you know, these are great tips. I love the uh specific is terrific. Did I get that right? Yeah, that clever super catchy. Uh, and I love the the idea of the love lists of actually being it's more the language, it's actually yeah, spelling out. Here's here's what I would love more of. Or I mean, how how many of our spouses partners would would want that? I know I would. So to hear something, you know. I I absolutely love it when you and then fill in the blank. I mean, brilliant, but so so few of us, yeah, do that. So I hope that our our listeners were to we're talking to you, that we've had a great discussion, but I hope that you have found, yeah, a little inspiration, a little nudge, a little feeling here. There is hope that you you can. There's so many more resources than ever before today. So don't be ashamed of where you're at. Every relationship can can get better. I love was a case that pointed out, we all have these irreconcilable differences. We all have differences, and that's okay. And some of these we can turn into strengths, and some of them we're we're just gonna be different. Uh, but appreciate our differences. That's what that's really what makes us unique. So all kinds of great information, uh, you guys. So thank you. Huge thanks sincerely to you both for dedicating, I mean, huge chunks of your your life, your career, to really just trying to make marriages better, trying to make people better, giving them hope. Uh, sincerely, thank you for what you're doing.

Closing And Audience CTA

SPEAKER_05

Well, we are we're humbled by just being able to share our passion. You guys are like titans to us, and the your level of expertise and your ability to speak to so many people uh into health and and encourage them in the relationships, and kind of what we started before we hit record is if we're gonna change our culture to celebrate marriage and family values, uh, not even as a conservative like political thing, but just to say, like, hey, if we want to see the American dream live on, we have to espouse these in culture. And it's gonna take a lot of us to really turn the tide and say marriage as an institution is an amazing thing. It's not the ball and chain, it shouldn't be the butt of all jokes, it's something to be celebrated and honored.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, well said. Yeah, marriage truly, truly matters. Ah, you guys are great. Uh, thanks for coming on again. Let's do this again sometimes. Fantastic. Yeah, we enjoy our conversations. The time always goes way, way too fast. But thanks again for coming on. Okay, that's all our friends for now. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you next time on another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection podcast.

SPEAKER_01

And remember, it's the small and simple things that create a stronger marriage connection. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_04

Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment, and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at StrongerMarriageLife and Facebook at Stronger Marriage. So be sure to share with us which topics you loved or which guests we should have on the show next. If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit strongermarriage.org, where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys, and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University, and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.