How To Help the Next Generation Break the Dating Recession | Alan Hawkins | #175

In this episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection podcast, Dr. Dave welcomes Dr. Alan Hawkins to explore the critical issues surrounding the current state of dating, its impact on marriage formation, and practical solutions to strengthen young adults' dating skills. Understanding these dynamics is essential for fostering healthier relationships and addressing the broader societal trends influencing marriage today.

Key Topics:

• The concept of the "dating recession" and its scope, including data indicating a decline in active dating among young adults.
• How contemporary cultural shifts, digital communication, and social skills deficits affect dating confidence and competency.
• The importance of developing social and dating skills early, including parent and educator roles; introduction of programs like the Utah Marriage Commission's Dating Ready course.
• Barriers to dating such as money, past negative experiences, and digital preference for virtual interaction.
• Strategies for building relationship grit and resilience to handle setbacks and rejection.
• The influence of historical norms versus current practices in dating and marriage, including the shift from duty-based to emotional connection-based relationships.
• Recommendations for societal, educational, and familial interventions to improve the dating system and support young adults.

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Transcript

Welcome And The Dating Dilemma

SPEAKER_02 0:03

On today's episode, Dr. Liz and I welcome back to the show Dr. Alan Hawkins to talk about something that may actually be the bigger story behind marriage right now. The state of dating. Alan has been leading important national research on what's happening in the dating lives of young adults, and the latest findings point to what some are calling a dating recession. What does that mean? Why are so few young adults actively dating, even when most say they want marriage? And what's behind the growing gaps in confidence, resilience, and relationship skills? Alan helps us unpack the data and what it means for young adults, parents, and our culture. Dr. Alan Hawkins retired after thirty-three years as a professor at Brigham Young University. He earned a PhD in human development and family studies at Pennsylvania State University in 1990. Professor Hawkins' scholarship and outreach efforts focused on educational interventions and policies to help couples form and sustain healthy marriages and relationships, and to help fathers be engaged in the lives of their children. Since 2000, he has been intricately involved in state and federal policy efforts to support relationship education programs for disadvantaged families. He has served on the Utah Marriage Commission since 2004 and is a past chair of the Utah Marriage Commission. He currently serves as vice chair on the board for the National Association for Relationship and Marriage Education. We hope you enjoy the show. Hey there, friends. Welcome to another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection Podcast. I'm Dr. Dave here at Utah State University. Alongside Dr. Liz Hell, our psychologist, we're aiming to bring you the very best that we have in research and resources, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. Well, our guest today, backed by popular demand, is both a dear friend and a colleague. And years ago, I was sitting in his class as a BYU student learning from him, and I'm still learning from him today. He's one of the brightest and most knowledgeable marriage and family scholars I've personally ever known. And today we're talking about what we call the dating dilemma. So welcome back to the show, Dr. Alan Hawkins.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

Thanks, uh Dave. Really looking forward to chatting about uh this topic today, this dating topic.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yeah, such an important one, a timely one. Uh Alan, we recently celebrated National Marriage Week in February during Valentine's Week, but today we're skipping marriage and we're backing up a bit to focus on dating. Is that because what's happening before marriage may be the bigger story right now, Alan?

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Yeah, I I think it um I think it really is uh uh a big story. I think it's a little bit of a forgotten story uh as well. And so I'm gonna try and connect the dots from there up to you know stronger marriages. But uh I agree uh right now, marital formation may be the bigger story than marital maintenance.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and what's happening in the beginning stage, I think probably even going back, we've got a senior, our youngest senior in high school, affecting that generation. They had they're just not dating, like real, like when anyway, even a generation

Dating As The Marriage On Ramp

SPEAKER_02 3:20

ago, when when I was dating, things things look different. So we're excited to jump into uh to what you have to share with us.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

So, Alan, so then how we date sets of precedence for how we marry?

SPEAKER_04 3:32

Yeah, well, uh there's certainly that, but I'm thinking of it in more basic terms, is that uh I I think dating is uh the on-ramp to that marital highway. And those those on-ramps are broken and and broken, you know, broken down and uh potholes and all those kinds of things. Uh and so I I'm thinking in that more basic way is that it's it's what comes first. Um now uh you know, healthy dating obviously is going to set uh is gonna create a much more healthy kind of relationship that can transition effectively uh into marriage, and healthy dating is really important. But just the whole dating system seems to be broken. That is certainly what we hear from young adults these days, that it's just broken down, that those on-ramps just aren't open or aren't working.

SPEAKER_05 4:27

And not just young adults, I suppose. It could be anyone dating, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Even in my age with some dear friends who are uh I focus more on those young adults that are doing so, but um, we could give a lot of attention at another time to those who are um hoping aspiring to a remarriage or to a later life marriage and the challenges to dating that there. But my focus today is mostly on those young adults who are still aspiring to that first marriage.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Perfect. You've been busy recently, Alan, with the Institute for Family Studies and the Wheatley Institute on the State of Our Unions report that just came out, the details findings from

What The Dating Recession Means

SPEAKER_05 5:05

the 2025 National Dating Landscape Survey. And the results point to what is called a dating recession, just like what you're talking about. What does it really mean? And let's talk about how serious is this?

SPEAKER_04 5:18

Well, only about 30% of young adults in those prime dating years are actively dating. And by prime dating, I'm I'm talking about probably that 22 to 35. I mean, we could collapse it even more, but um uh I think those are what we're calling those prime dating years, and less than a third are actively dating, which is uh dating once a month or more. Um and uh you've you've got uh only a quarter of young women, and only just a little more than a third, about 35% of young men, are dating at least monthly in those prime dating years. So a full-blown depression, maybe not, but a recession for sure. Uh it's just that the dating activity that that leads to those serious relationships to lead that leads to the alter uh of matrimony. Those are uh, you know, that that uh the the that dating process is uh breaking down.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

Yeah, it needs our help, it needs you certainly your help, Dr. Alan Hawkins. How does this compare to prior decades, would you say?

SPEAKER_04 6:40

You know, I I wish I knew. And uh I we don't have good data similar to what we've collected in 2025. Anecdotally, uh, we hear uh from uh millennials and Gen uh Ziers and that sort of thing that even the dating culture right now seems very different from what they experienced. And it's certainly different from what I experienced 50 years ago. Um and um, you know, and uh and and so it's maybe not surprising that we're struggling with the pace of change that is going on, but I I I think it's one of those uh kind of unspoken problems out there that we do need to address um uh because it's it's critical in this marriage formation process.

SPEAKER_05 7:30

Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Alan, I'm I'm curious then. If most young adults, at least from the research that we know, and this is dipped a little bit, but most uh young adults they still want to marry. They see that as as a goal at some point. Maybe you know it's getting delayed further and further. I think the research is showing. But is is there you know a core reason for this? Is it is this fear? Is it just avoidance? Is it I want to live my life for a minute? Is it cultural confusion? What's happening?

SPEAKER_04 7:57

Well, um, first of all, our um you're right. 85, 86 percent of the youth, uh the young adults in our survey said that they expect to marry. Um and uh and so we focus uh on them. And um and most uh we were well, I think the thing that surprised us most about the data was large majorities of them say dating is for building serious relationships, for building emotional connection, for learning what you want in a long-term partner or a spouse, for learning what what I'm looking for. Um very traditional in that sense. Um and yet there's this dating recession, not dating very much. Is it fear? Uh um yes. Um I'm not sure I'd call it avoidance, but um I think young adults uh grew up in this digital age where their social skills were underdeveloped. Um they probably didn't do much dating in their teenage years. Um that seems to be fading away. Um and um and some cultural confusion about, oh, don't worry about it. You know, uh when you get through your young adulthood, you'll find your love of your life, uh, and then it'll all happen. Uh as if dating were a non-essential factor these days in terms of marital formation. So um I I think it's it's those uh that they don't have the skills. There's some of that of some of that fear of social uh fear there. Um and um I suspect um when we look back and get even smarter in a few years, we're going to think uh see that the apps, these dating apps, um were not helping very much. Um that um this the sense of swipe right and swipe left really isn't the skill set that you need. Um it can be a start, it can probably help, but it doesn't solve the bigger problems uh around dating. Um our our survey indicated that there's a a very uh wide lack of confidence in being able to um you know um ask somebody out on a date, you know, probably the most basic skill uh that there is. And uh so um uh I think anyway that there's um uh a lot of uh need for us to just pay attention to these basic kinds of social skills uh when we think about being able to um solve this dating recession.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

And I'm sure COVID didn't help either because that was then where everyone was on their devices and no face-to-face uh interactions. So it feels like this pulling away of of like real inner interaction uh with people because now and we're on Zooms now, and it feels like just there's still communication, but it's it's less risky, you know, less vulnerable. Uh again, it's more safe.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

Uh it feels safer than real life. Yeah. Um but we've gotta we've gotta develop those skills for real life as well. That's so true.

SPEAKER_05 11:23

I think that intimacy really is, I think, uh one of the scariest things we do. It is kind of frightening to be so known by someone. The more you know me, the more you may deem me broken, unlovable, unwanted.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

And yeah, we want that. That's our most basic fundamental human need is that sense to be connected, to be known, uh, to be loved in that way. And um, and dating just uh plays a really important role. But as uh I think as Dr. Dave said, that that that there's a lot of fear uh in that and that that we will be rejected.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

I think there's even that fear in marriage, but you know, maybe that that's for another time too. I still see that fear continuing with married couples.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

We'll be right back after this brief message.

Low Confidence And Fear Of Rejection

SPEAKER_00 12:20

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_05 12:24

Um, Ellen, your your data shows low dating confidence kind of across the board, especially women. If women are initiating getting together, what's what's going on there, do you think?

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Yeah, one in five women say um uh they lack confidence in approaching someone. Now, if you know, if we were back in the 20th century, I'd I'd be a little bit more sympathetic here. But um, but this this is the 21st century, and I think it's very important for both men and women to be proactive in their dating experiences and their dating choices. Now, um, maybe women, um maybe the culture still wants women to be a little more coy um and flirt uh as they um uh you know try and express their interest in a dating partner. Maybe we've lost the flirting skills. I'm not sure about that. Um, but I think it's really important for women to have these skills. But men aren't aren't a whole lot more confident than themselves, only about a quarter to 30%, I think, say that they're they're confident in being able to just basically approach someone because rejection is hard. And and maybe we've lost a little bit of that grit, you know, that we know is needed in life. And um, so I think we start there as the most basic skill is that confidence that I can approach somebody, and not everyone's going to respond, and that's okay. That's just that's just basic learning. Um, but uh having the confidence and having a little bit of grit to approach um uh to approach people. And again, uh only about a third, a little more than a third, report that they even trust their judgment in choosing a dating partner. And so maybe we need some help and some instruction that way as well. You know, what are those signs that uh I can be, first of all, safe uh in a dating relationship? And second, that that you know, this will be a good experience. Okay, maybe it's just a date or two, and we realize there's not it, there's not much there to connect for us. But um, you know, getting a sense of we can improve our odds of finding somebody that, hey, I like this person, I'd really like to develop this relationship. And you know, if you can't get over those basic kinds of barriers, um then I, you know, uh that's a challenge. And I'm hoping that we as uh, first of all, as parents, can help our our young adults, you know, uh develop the greater confidence in approaching someone and trusting your judgment and learning how to find those people who are going to be better choices for us. I think parents have a role that way. And then uh I just think basic um relationship educators, that's my world. Uh we've kind of ignored uh the the whole dating thing. You know, once a relationship forms, we're there for you. We can teach you healthy relationship skills. But dating skills are yeah, yeah, I think are a step before that, and they're different. And just the those basic getting to know you, and I'm interested in you. And gee, I hope you're interested in me. And maybe that's maybe we just need to kind of start over again and uh teach those skills to young adults. I'll put in my plug um that uh I do think uh we need to encourage teenagers to do uh dating as well. Now we've sort of let that lapse, I think. But um and maybe it's not serious one-on-one dating, but uh but it's uh they should be out um uh in mixed-sex groups and and even pairing off some. And they should be practicing those dating skills um before they get to those more serious prime dating years.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

I think you're right.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 16:39

Yeah, there's there's a fair fair amount of social anxiety. There's even some overchoice uh that I've heard people talk about with the website dating, risk aversion. How much of this is tied to the digital

How Digital Life Weakens Social Skills

SPEAKER_05 16:50

communication, do you think? Replacing the face-to-face skill building, Alan?

SPEAKER_04 16:55

Um I do think, I do think that uh the digital world is harming our basic social skills. It may give you a greater sense that there's a lot of people out there that you might be interested in. Um but our ability to make those kind of early dating choices, I think, is a human skill. And I don't think the digital interface is really helping a whole lot. Um and so putting yourself in those social situations where you pick up on those human cues much better. Um and uh even uh, you know, one of the things that I encourage people to do is get into those situations where you develop friendships with uh those who might be a part of your dating pool down the road. Develop those friendships, get to know them a little bit. Um, I want to I want to pat uh the youngest generation on the back a little bit and say, because they've I think they're much better at building those cross-gender, cross-sex friendships than maybe previous generations have been. And start there. That's a great way to just kind of get to know people, and it's so much easier in many respects to get those dating skills going when you've already got a little bit of a relationship.

Dating Ready Course And Free Resources

SPEAKER_04 18:15

It's not such a big deal with that.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

I'm gonna plug here, uh Dr. Hawkins, the the Utah Marriage Commission, right, obviously hosts this this podcast, and we've been busy the last couple of years. You've been a part of that and and moving, pushing. If if parents are listeners or say, Yeah, you know, I I can do so much, but are there other resources? Man, we have so many uh wonderful free resources, short e-courses, you know, 10, 15 minutes on dating relationships. We're even working on one on dating, uh learning to date again, right? If you've been in a relationship, it hasn't worked out. So we're providing uh really our mission is to provide resources to those uh to help them in their relationships and in parenting and happiness, positivity, all those areas, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:01

And I remember that discussion, what, two and a half years ago now, where we where we kind of realized there's this there's this real educational hole in terms of thinking seriously about dating as a system that needs to work and that people need to have the right knowledge and skills within that system. And so uh we did create uh a unique online uh uh dating skills course. We call it Dating Ready, where you can uh you know learn and practice those skills um in a little bit safer setting online. And um uh Utah Marriage Commission has that course up and running now. I I don't even know the the data on that, Dave, how popular the course is, you might, but uh it's there, and we really encourage young adults to check it out. It's free for Utawns and uh just uh numerous, numerous lessons. Uh I think they're what, 16, 17 little mini lessons uh on on the skills that you kind of need from the very early kinds of things to okay, it's getting a little bit more serious now. What? To oh, maybe this isn't working out. Is there a way uh healthy breakups is another part that we we talk about there. And also dealing with and recovering from um setbacks when, okay, it didn't go right, and um how to stay positive uh about um uh this whole dating environment uh thing. And then what about if we're getting really serious and um so thinking about engagement? We've got all of those things by one of the premier experts in in the field who uh researches this area. So I really want to plug that for them. Um maybe I should also plug it. Maybe, parents, you ought to take a sneak peek at that course to to give um so maybe you could uh plug it more for your young adults and encourage them, and also being able to support their learning for that.

SPEAKER_05 21:11

And grandparents and aunts and uncles, right?

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Sure. All of us. There's a whole lot. I think society as a whole needs to be a little more sympathetic towards young adults who are struggling um in this world and not just say, leave it up to them, go ahead, you know, you figure it out. Uh how about a little sympathy, even a little empathy, and a little bit of encouragement uh for them uh to just, you know, this is something that you have to learn, and maybe we dropped the ball and didn't help you learn it very well. Um, so that but there are resources out there for them uh to to come up to speed.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Yeah, for sure. And that the website we're referring to is strongermarriage.org. We'll be sure to put that in our show notes, but strongermarriage.org has oh, so many over a hundred, I think. I think e-courses now that uh that you can access on all kinds of topics, including

The Hookup Story Versus What People Want

SPEAKER_02 22:05

this dating ready. Uh all right, Alan, changing uh switching gears a little bit. If young adults, right, they're they're strongly prefer serious relationships. You said 86, 87 percent want marriage, you know, eventually at some point in their life, why does the culture often tell this this hookup narrative? We still hear that.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

I don't know. Um I'm not convinced that it's it's very effective for young adults. I'm um that's not what they want. Uh and um there's other data out there and other surveys that that suggest there's even a sex recession going on for teens and young young uh young adults. Um they want more um than I think what culture has told them and what Hollywood has has kind of uh uh you know told them uh their young adult years should be about. Uh in that sense, they're smarter than the culture, I think. And um and so they need just a little bit of help and education to figure out how to do the dating thing a little bit better because that's what they want. Now there are um some barriers uh to that. One problem that we found that surprised us a little bit the number one barrier for men and the number two barrier for women was

Money Pressure And Better Cheap Dates

SPEAKER_04 23:25

money uh in terms of dating. And I guess I was included into that. Um uh talked around a little bit more about that, and um um and apparently what's going on out there is that especially around these early dates, there's this sense that you need to impress your date. And so you need to go to a nice restaurant and get good concert tickets, and so you're already talking hundreds of dollars. And so, okay, I see why money is a barrier, if that's your notion of dating. Um, and if I could, one of the things that I'd like to do, my my magic wand is broken, Dave and Liz. I'm sorry to say, but if that magic wand was working, I'd like to change that sense of the culture. The the best thing you can do for dating uh is build a situation in which you can talk with each other, get to know each other. Going to a movie, going to a concert is not a good way to talk. Even a restaurant may not be that great. You're shoving food in your mouth, there are other people around, there are waiters interrupting you, you know. Um, the best date uh to get to know each other is a more quiet time. Just go get, you know, um go get a little treat or a coffee or whatever it is, and just sit there and and talk and learn about each other. That's cheap. Uh and it's besting. Now, you know, maybe a first date you spend a little bit more money to, I don't know, because maybe first dates aren't the best times to start asking all these questions about uh this person's life and you just met him or her. Um but uh certainly after a first date, I think the better dates are the cheaper. Matter of fact, I think there's inverse correlation. The more expensive, the less useful that date's gonna be in terms of really figuring it out. You want the cheaper dates uh to talk and to learn and to grow. And then you find out that they're um, gee, they have those interests. Ah, light bulb goes on. We could we could work on that, you know. They they're they love sports. Well, let's get out and do some sports together, um, or or whatever uh it might be. But uh there's that. Uh the other really big barrier um to uh dating is having had bad dating experiences in the past. Um and they get gun shy, um, they get a much more negative, darker sense about dating, relationships don't work, and uh plenty of people in our survey, majorities of them saying that I've turned down possible dates because I just I'm soured on dating. Um so Liz, if your uh magic wand is still working, maybe you could get the psych the psychologists of the world to help out here. Um can we build more grit um for um absorbing these bad experiences and staying positive? Uh because that's that was one of the things that surprised us in the survey is is how but how big of an issue that was. Sure, dating, you're gonna have bumps. Um, you're gonna you're gonna get some bruises in the process. How do we stay more positive?

SPEAKER_05 26:54

Right. Like Dr. Brian, Brian Willoughby would say, just just keep going, right? To students in like just keep going.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

And we're back. Well, let's dive right in.

Relationship Grit After Bad Breakups

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Is that you talk about relationship grit, Alan? It's um, and I love that. I love that term. Uh is that I mean, teachable? How do you how do you you know share that message of keep going, keep growing?

SPEAKER_04 27:33

I think so. And I think um that one is where we learn that kind of relationship grit maybe earlier than our our 20s. Um and um and maybe even just uh parents have an important role here. If parents are over-protecting their children, um and not allowing them to stumble and bruise their knees, um, and um uh I think it's harder to develop that grit. We have a sense, I think, that we have to protect our children a little more than we really need to, and allowing them to make those mistakes and you're that protection a layer back for them, saying, Oh, that's so hard, I'm so sad, I'm so sorry, oh, that must be hard. While all the time as a parent, you're thinking, Oh, I'm really glad that you uh that you're getting these little bruises now to help you learn that that's not the end of your life right then, because this person that you thought was the best person in the whole world doesn't like you anymore. Um those are the ways that we develop uh grit in our relationships. Um and we learn an enormous amount about ourselves and about people and about life in those, you know, early, early teen dating, you know, those dating years as teens, and that are really, really important. If we're not learning them, then that uh our young adult serious dating years are it's gonna be harder and harder.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it comes back to that, what you were talking about earlier, the dating resilience. I know one of the things I think I read from the report is only about 28% stay positive after setbacks, and 55% say breakups make them more reluctant to try again. So that they get burned, they try it, and they're like, man, I don't want to do that again. I'm not gonna risk it for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 29:31

And part of grit is being able to know then that ah, those bruises, even the bloody cuts, uh, are uh I learn. I learned something important about myself, about other people, about this process. I get smarter. That's how we develop the grit um that allows us to um absorb those bruises, be depressed for two days, and then um see that other really cute person that I that I wasn't paying attention to. Oh, you know, and bounce back um uh and get get back into that dating market, uh, if you will. Um I I think uh yes, I think we can learn those skills. And um let me put a big uh a big push on parents to think about that as an important part of your parenting portfolio, is helping your um you know uh teenagers and early young adults to to um you know develop uh those uh that resilience that we need um to be able to survive this challenging dating market. I'm I it's not easy. Let's put that out there. It's not easy. Um, but it's so rewarding. It's what brings you to the most rewarding things in life, those those serious relationships. Um, you know, I have uh I have a 50-year friendship with a young woman I dated in high school, and we were madly in love, and then summer came and it all you know uh disappeared, and my heart was broken forever and ever. And um, turns out that's not true. We've just been wonderful friends for decades and decades and decades, and it taught me a whole lot uh about myself and about other people. We we we we will live, we will survive, those kinds of things. But it's the most meaningful thing in the whole world. And to um get to our late 20s and not be dating and saying, yeah, sometime that you know magically that's gonna happen for me. I

A Bigger Plan To Fix Dating

SPEAKER_04 31:45

I worry about that.

SPEAKER_05 31:47

I'm curious, Alan. If you could design one national intervention to close a dating skills gap, what would it look like?

SPEAKER_04 31:54

Um well, I've already put in my plug for the Utah Marriage Commission's dating ready uh e-course. But I think we need to think bigger than that. Uh and that and so I think it's a it's the broader question. We've taken for granted the development of social skills uh as children grow up and turn into teenagers and to the early young adults. Um and uh taking it for granted, I don't think, isn't working. Um and so, in terms of an intervention, the first step is just acknowledging the problem that we have. Let's stop ignoring the dating problem. Let's acknowledge that there is one. Let's acknowledge that it's hard. Let's acknowledge that there are skills and that we could learn. Um uh let's let's start there. And uh, and you know, I hate to use this really fancy big word, but let's let's go ahead and problematize um the dating thing. Uh we're not gonna scare anybody. Uh young adults uh already know that the system is pretty bad, maybe broken, and we're not scaring them. Let's go ahead and admit the problem. Um, and then let's start on that road of uh learning those things that can help us and make a difference. It's not rocket science that we have to learn, it's basic relationship skills. Um there's a lot, even the schools are taking on basic socio-emotional learning skills these days. I put in a big thumbs up for uh schools and uh our educational institutions that are trying to do that. I I'll put in a plug for um you know for all institutions that are working with young adults these days to take serious those uh those skills. And um I I want to uh encourage uh practitioners out there, educators and psychologists and therapists, to think about how I how they can help uh with this. Can they do a better job of uh teaching these basic relationship skills and then the basic dating skills of how to get to know people, how to flirt, how to talk to each other on a date. That's another one that we found out they they really struggle with. Um and uh let's let's I don't know, I'm not gonna declare a national emergency yet. But come on, let's let's take this on. There's a need out there, and I think young adults will appreciate everything that we can give them that way. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

And we're back.

Where To Find The Report

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_05 35:02

Where can our listeners, Alan, find the report and all these other helpful resources for their relationship, please?

SPEAKER_04 35:09

So you could, I think you could just uh Google up State of Our Unions uh 2025. State of Our Unions. Um the title of the report is The Dating Recession. You Google up that and it will be there. It's on the Wheatley Institute uh website. That's wheatly.byu.edu under their family initiative.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

Oh, thank you for that. We're going to add that to our show notes for the easy find. Thank you, Alan.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Well, Alan, as we wrap up, we like to ask all of our guests, as you know, a couple of questions. I don't know if you remember your response from the last time, but we were we're gonna uh hear your thoughts on this this time around. Of what do you feel like is the key? A key, maybe, maybe it's stronger marriage connection, maybe it's key to dating. You know, we we change up the question a little bit, but I'll uh let you answer what you think uh is is needed right now. What's it one of the things?

SPEAKER_04 35:58

No, I'm gonna try and stay on the dating theme to answer that question this time. A stronger marriage first requires a marriage. And a good start to a strong marriage begins with, I think, healthy dating uh that gets you to fall in love. And yes, you're probably gonna fall out of love a couple of times as well and get your heart broken. But uh falling in love is the most incredible experience in the human repertoire. And it's absolutely core to our well-being, physical, emotional, social well-being. And uh, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna stay on this theme is let's let's do the dating thing because it's gonna lead us to those greater goods uh that are out there.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Yeah, yeah, well said, thank you. And our last question, what do you feel like is the a key takeaway? And maybe that was it, but if you have another key take-home message you want our listeners to remember from our discussion.

SPEAKER_04 36:57

Yeah, I think it's easy to take easy things for granted. Um, and I think we've been taking, we we've kind of taken this uh dating thing for granted. And it's a little bit dusty,

Takeaways For Parents And Couples

SPEAKER_04 37:10

maybe a little bit out of disrepair, the batteries are dead, maybe there's some missing parts in the whole thing. Um, but um we've got to give it some attention and some smart people looking at it and uh kind of fix that system up so that it's working again for our young adults. Um, it's not all their problem. It's very easy to say, well, if you're not dating, um, you must have a big problem. Yeah, I think it's bigger than that. I think we all share some of this um responsibility for this problem, but I think we also all have a stake in uh trying to help improve uh this dating system.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Yes, yes, we do. Liz, what about you? What's a take-home message?

SPEAKER_05 37:58

Yeah, where I'm responsible is my take-home message. I'm flashing in my mind all of uh young single adults in my family, uh, young men, young women. It's like, gosh, when have I really sat down with them one-on-one, even informally, just talking, right? And and what it's like just to have a rapport with someone. Uh, I mean, there's some of that, but there's always a big, big group. Um, I think I could do even some more formal approach in this and taking the advice from what's on strongermarriage.org. I think those are great resources. Even the Gottmans now have a program for singles, and that was recently developed by someone that we had on our show.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

I have a colleague um who uh now is uh doing regular structured group dating events to um their kind of power dating, and but she's sort of teaching the skills first and then allowing them to kind of practice with each other as they uh get to know the people in the room and give them, and then they leave with a with a uh by asking for a date. Um actually no, it's not asking, they actually get assigned a date. Um and they have to do specific things on a date. Matter of fact, they have to commit to doing uh dating this person twice. And you know, things like that, more structure, uh I think could also help, particularly with smart people like you, Liz, who have real relationship smarts, maybe you know, helping them um, you know, develop those in this more formal, structured setting uh could work.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

We'd love to know that resource. We'll add that to our show notes as well, Alan. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 39:36

Nice. Thank you. Um, Dave, what about you? What's your greatest takeaway from our interview today today with Dr. Alan Hawkins?

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Yeah, it's been uh very insightful. Thanks, Alan. I think that this this persistence, this relationship, resilience of keep keep going, even if you know that statistic shocked me that you know they get turned or rejected or something doesn't work at one time, and they just whoa, they retreat back to where it's safe and they don't want to dip their toe in that water again because that didn't feel good. But wow, if if you'll just keep uh keep going through this, um get that relationship, yeah, the relational grit that we talked about, and keep going. Um and I want to almost flip it a little bit for those are our listeners who are in a relationship and it's strong. Dating doesn't end when you are in the relationship, right? It still takes intentional effort to plan to make things happen. In fact, maybe a little bit more effort because now, oh, now I'm in a relationship, but it's worth it.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

No, I would not call dating a natural, organic thing that just emerges, you know. It's just I don't think it is that, especially not these days. And um, and so I agree with you there. We need to be intentional about this part of the whole relationship system. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Yep. Wonderful. Well, Dr. Allen Hawkins, thanks again for joining us uh another time. Yeah, we're so grateful to have you on for discussing this important topic. Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

Yeah, thank you. And um, and blessings upon all those young adults out there who are trying to make this dating system work for you. We're gonna try and help out. We're gonna try and get your back.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yes, yes, we are. We're trying to do as much as we can to help you through those uh journey. It's a it's a bumpy road, as Alan talked about, but it's one that is worth it. So thanks for tuning in, friends. We will see you next time, another episode of Stronger Marriage Connection Podcast.

SPEAKER_05 41:30

And remember, it's the small things that create a stronger marriage connection. Take care now.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Thanks for joining us today.

Closing And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment, and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at StrongerMarriageWife and Facebook at Stronger Marriage. So be sure to share with us which topics you loved or which guests we should have on the show next. If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit strongermarriage.org where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys, and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.