Rebuilding Intimacy In Marriage | Nick and Amy McKinlay | #180

We talk with Nick and Amy about how their marriage nearly ended, and how rebuilding emotional safety brought back real connection and passionate sexual intimacy. They share the simple habits and tools that helped them stop drifting, communicate about hard topics, and create the Ultimate Intimacy app to help other couples do the same. 

• their turning point after financial stress and burnout 
• why sex can stay frequent yet still feel disconnected 
• emotional safety as listening plus caring plus follow-through 
• date night as a weekly nonnegotiable that rebuilds closeness 
• kindness, respect, and loyalty as the base for sexual intimacy 
• the intimacy gap pattern and why couples get stuck 
• how app prompts make taboo conversations easier to start 
• phone boundaries, mental load talks, and acting like teammates 
• one daily question that shifts the whole marriage 
• refusing to settle for a mediocre marriage 

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Dr. Dave Schramm: 

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Dr. Liz Hale: 

http://www.drlizhale.com/ 

Transcript

Welcome And Why Their Story Matters

SPEAKER_06 0:03

On today's episode, Dr. Liz and I welcome Nick and Amy to the show when we talk all about emotional and sexual intimacy. They open up about their own marriage journey, the importance of communication, kindness, respect, and loyalty when it comes to emotional safety and improving physical intimacy. They discuss common struggles couples have and share all about their ultimate intimacy app, which has been downloaded by more than one million couples. Amy and Nick are the owners of the Ultimate Intimacy app, Ultimate Intimacy Podcast, an online store helping couples to find ultimate intimacy in their relationship. They've been married almost 24 years and have four kids. We hope you enjoy the show. Hey there, friends. Welcome to another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection Podcast. I'm Dr. Dave here at Utah State University. Alongside Liz Hale, our therapist, we're aiming to bring you the very best that we have in research and resources, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. All right, today we're joined by a couple whose story is as powerful as the work they're doing now. Nick and Amy didn't just study relationships, they lived through some really hard seasons in their own marriage to the point where things were close to ending. But what they discovered along the way didn't just transform their relationship, it led them to create the Ultimate Intimacy app, which has now helped thousands of couples strengthen connection, communication, and intimacy. We're excited to dive into their story and what actually works when it comes to building a better marriage. Amy and Nick, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having us. Absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

We're excited.

SPEAKER_06 1:47

We're excited to have you both.

Rock Bottom And The Turning Point

SPEAKER_06 1:50

Kate, take us back to the beginning. We really want to set this up. Your story is powerful. It needs to continue to be shared and to get out there. What was going on in your marriage about 10, 12 years ago? And what was the turning point that changed everything?

SPEAKER_07 2:06

Do you want me to lead this off or do you want to lead this up? Our stories might be a little different. No. Like this person do you want? Yeah, I'll I'll share just really quickly. Um, we were really struggling through some things in our relationship due to financial betrayal, uh, some financial decisions I made on my own. Uh that really caused a lot of conflict in marriage in our marriage. And um, you know, I also we didn't really have any tools um on how to be married, right? So we were kind of trying to navigate through these difficult times in our relationship, and uh conflict just seemed to get worse. And, you know, we were just in a really, really rough place. And um one night Amy came to me and said, Hey, I I I want to build an app. I, you know, I just don't have the well, maybe I better let you transition into this because this is this is where it gets great.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Well, the story is obviously much, much deeper than that, right? Like this is years of you know, hard. So, like at this stage of our life, we have you know four little kids. He's trying to build this business, and instead of working up until the business goes, he decided to just spend full time and we have no income coming up. So we hit rock bottom. Um, we've got four little kids at home, and so I decide to take things into my own hands and I open up an online business. So we go from like dirt broke, like 2008, 2000, 2009 crash hits, like we lost a lot of stuff. And I start working. I have a one-year-old as like, and then three other kids a little bit older. And so I take on all the financial responsibility at this time. And so I'm we're frustrated with what's his doing. It's not paying off. I'm working full time. Well, I'm at home, so I'm still raising the kids. I'm doing all the emotional, the nurturing, the house cleaning, the financial. I'm up till midnight. One of like I just I don't know, I felt like a ticking time bomb. I'm like, I can't do everything and then still want to be intimate at the end of the night. And when we got married, I'm like, I had a really great drive. Like, we had passion, everything was great. Like we fell in love so fast and got married so fast, and the first couple of years were just a dream to us. And then all this stuff starts happening, life starts happening, these trials start happening, and I'm like, ah, my drive, my libido is disappearing, you know, what's going on? And so our story is kind of opposite. I kept the sexual intimacy strong during those years, which most women I think are just gonna be like, ah, it's cutting, it's getting cut off, right? Instead, I did the opposite. But what was happening is was it was starting to feel like a chore to me. And during this time, I'm like, what is happening? Like, what is am I broken? And I didn't understand, like, we didn't have the tools that emotional intimacy and emotional safety for women is key to great foreplay, great sexual intimacy, intimacy in marriage. And that like, we just weren't communicating, he wasn't listening, we were just so many frustrations going on. And I was trying to explain, like, I need this, I need this. And so just so much disconnect for a while. And then one day we just one day we looked at each other. This is kind of where our turning point is. And we said, we are putting the kids first, we're putting this business first, we're not we're not communicating right, we're not putting this marriage in each other first, we're not listening to each other. And that emotional safety for me, feeling listened to, feeling heard, feeling like you got to step it up over here if I have to do everything over here. That's key, right? I know it's it kind of seems like common sense, but like we don't really talk about this stuff when we first start marriaging everything. So, anyways, one night we're looking at each other, or like, we we got married to have a passionate marriage. Like, we made covenants to have a passionate, strong marriage. Something has happened. And so that night we decided we are going to start having date night. He's gonna start helping around the house. I'm not gonna have the entire load on me. Just started having these conversations, and we're like, date night every single week. We're bringing back the marriage, we're bringing back the passion, we're bringing back that communication, and our marriage changed. I know that was a lot, sorry, but that was kind of what happened.

SPEAKER_07 6:10

Yeah, and just to just throw in a little bit more, um, Amy felt like, why isn't why do I not enjoy being intimate anymore? What's wrong with me? So she bought a bought a bedroom game, thinking, hey, maybe we just need to spice things up a little bit. And what we realized during the process, you know, the bedroom game was amazing, but what it did is it started getting us talking about sex. And when we learned that we could talk about sex, the floodgates opened, and all of a sudden we're like, oh, we can talk about all these other hard things in life that we couldn't talk about before or we were too scared to talk about before. Most people would probably do the opposite, right? They would start learning to communicate, and then, you know, the sex life would get better, things like that. We kind of did things backward. But what we what we learned in that is, oh my heck, all the communication that we now have, we're almost able to resolve any issue because now we can talk about hard things. Whereas before, you know, I would I would distance myself or we'd run away when run away from these hard conversations. And now all of a sudden, like within a month, our marriage is completely changing. Our circumstances didn't necessarily change, but now we understood each other. She felt like I was listening to her more, and we were we were turning around our marriage in a very quick period of time, and just all because we started having good communication. And so what we're laying in bed one night, and Amy says, I think we need to build an app with tools and things that we've that have helped us uh you know learn to communicate and so many different things, and there's gotta be others out there, and so we we build an app having no expectations, and um the rest is kind of history.

SPEAKER_06 7:47

So I love your story. A couple of things jump out at me. First, I uh you mentioned this intentionality, right? We intentionally were planning these date nights where actually I think too many couples just kind of drift, and then even strong couples, I think, just don't talk about sexual intimacy. They just don't, it just kind of happens and we avoid it because it's awkward and things, but you intentionally started doing things, you intentionally started communicating more, and then I heard the word understand, understand each other. We're getting on the same page, and now you're you're created this app that can help couples, give them a tool, something that they can go to to help them, to assist them in their relationship. Absolutely love what you guys are doing already.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Pardon me. First off, Nick and Amy, congratulations on 24 years of marriage. Almost better every year. You must have married as small children, because you don't look too much best than four. Um and four children. Do you have four daughters or we have a boy and then three girls? Oh, one boy, three girls. That's beautiful. So I could have sworn you you were the point was that you you started more with sex.

unknown 8:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Is that not quite true? Totally backwards.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

We just always kept that strong, but then I started realizing like I'm not into it the way that I want to be. It's turning into a chore. Do you know what I mean? Because I know to keep that strong, I know that I know that to keep a marriage passionate, passionate, there needs to be intimacy. But then all of a sudden, like if you don't have that emotional safety with it, that changes everything, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Yeah, yeah.

Emotional Safety Defined With Care

SPEAKER_00 9:20

What is emotional safety? How how do you define that, please?

SPEAKER_01 9:24

I personally think that it's like you are saying um the communication is great. We start having these deep talks, but there's two things that go with communication. It's not just like I'm willing to listen to you. It's I or or or live, yeah, like talk and have these talks, but you have to listen and then you have to do that thing that's called care. You have to care. And when I could talk and talk and talk, like this is what I'm struggling with, this is what's keeping us from having this deep connection. But until he started like really caring about how I felt, that's when everything changed. And that goes both ways, right?

SPEAKER_07 9:59

Yeah, I think early on we thought we had decent communication, but but we really, we really didn't, right? Like, because she was trying to tell me things, and on my end, I'm thinking, well, I'm doing all these things. This is how I'm showing love. And then we get into a whole nother thing, understanding each other's love languages and things like that. But um, I I think you know, that was where the frustration came in, is she sitting here saying, Hey, I need this from you. I thought I was hearing what she was needing, but in my mind, I was trying to provide those things, but I wasn't. And so again, I think, you know, going from that sub subsurface or just level communication that a lot of us think that we have to actually going into like understanding what she's trying to say or bring across and the why to it, and and just so much more in-depth.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Right.

SPEAKER_07 10:45

And and when we're talking about communication, also listening, right? And that's probably even more important than the speaking part.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

I wonder how you showed um Amy, Nick, that you were that you cared. That's another kind of buzzword. I'd like, okay, there's safety. You're trying to explain that. I appreciate that. And then now caring, how did you convey care? Because I'm sure you always cared.

SPEAKER_07 11:05

Yeah, well, I think early on, um, when I wasn't meeting her needs, I probably wasn't showing that I was caring, even though I was trying, you know, in my own ways. I'm trying to do this, I'm trying to show you. And that I think that's where it comes back into the love language, is right. As a husband, I'm, you know, physical touch, right? Like one of the things that kept Amy and I honestly from probably getting divorced is the fact that we were still intimate. Um, she knew that was important. And to me, every time we were intimate, it kind of was like, oh, okay, we're okay. We're still okay because she still loves me, right? And I'll honestly say, and I'm sure there's a lot of marriages out there that'll be listening, that um, even when you're going through tough times, that intimate connection is, I really believe, what helps keep us together. Because for most men, I believe um sexual intimacy is also very emotional. It also shows, showed me that she still cares about me. She still loves me.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

And so we um in our podcast, we talk a lot about um some basic needs before you should be intimate. And we say intimate because I'm like, I don't believe there ever should just be flat-out sex in marriage. I think it needs to always be sexual intimacy. And it's not because of this big list that you do, you know, that takes all this time and energy. Sexual intimacy comes from kindness, it comes from respect, and it comes from loyalty. And those things, those three things to me, I still have those in our marriage. So I was I was willing to be intimate, but being loyal, kind, and respectful, that's that's how you talk to each other, that's how you treat each other. And you can be disconnected, but still have those three things in your relationship, right? And I I just think those are a foundation piece to to a becoming intimacy.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

We'll be right back after this brief message.

Date Night Becomes The Game Changer

SPEAKER_08 13:03

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

You were both doing excellent things along the way. I mean, I give you all the credit. That's why I think you had such a quick recovery, right? Yeah. Well, but my question is when you started doing the newer things in your relationship, what were some of those first shifts you noticed that made you think, okay, we're getting somewhere. This is working.

SPEAKER_07 13:25

Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, the biggest thing was date night. You know, when you kind of get in a bad air, bad area in the marriage, you you kind of neglect the things you were doing when you were dating. For me, just going out and being with her and having those conversations and spending time together. And I mean, you fell in love when you were dating, right? So why do so many of us stop dating and still expect to have that passion and that connection like we did when we were dating? So for me, when we started going on regular date night once a week, and here we are almost 25 years later, we religiously will not skip a week of date lighting. In fact, sometimes we're out two nights a week because we recognize, at least in my eyes as well, too, like that was a total game changer for our marriage. Because again, typically you're doing the things that you need to do on date night, which is good communication, connecting, the romance, the you know, getting to know each other, listening, having fun, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah, and I would add to not just date night, but I don't want to like get into mental load because obviously it's a whole nother situation. But like when a wife is carrying financial stress and running the home and the children, which is is really big, like just having those conversations about mental load, and I know we both have them, we talk about that all the time, men have them too. But when you learn to talk about if you could help me with this or if I could help you with this, let's let's be teammates, let's let's build more unity in this marriage. And that that's just huge. That's huge.

SPEAKER_06 14:56

I should say that's the theme of this of intentionality, right? You're doing you're prioritizing date night, you're prioritizing uh each other, you're turning yeah, toward each other instead of a way. I love it. So I'm curious, at what point did it go from

Building The Ultimate Intimacy App

SPEAKER_06 15:12

all right, you know, this is helping us? We should create something to help other couples too. Because honestly, I mean, starting an app, especially in the intimacy space, is this is this is a big leap, you guys. What what gave you the confidence to go all in? And and what was that decision like to leave your career, what you were doing?

SPEAKER_07 15:29

For well, yeah, go ahead and then I'll answer. Or you want me to go ahead. For me, um the confidence was not knowing what we were getting into. If I would have known how difficult it was to build an app, maintain an app, the costs, just everything involved, I would we probably would never would have done it. But having said that, we're obviously glad we did. I mean, we we we get so many messages from people all over the world of how this is completely transforming their relationship. I mean, couples all the time that, hey, we were on the brink of divorce and now we've never been happier. And I think it's just, you know, giving helping people have the right toolbox, right? The toolbox is there, but giving people the right um tools to be able to implement in their marriage. And a lot of times, I can't tell you how many couples we have that say, I don't know what's wrong, I don't know what's causing the conflict, but you know, they're willing to go in there and learn their spouse's love language or willing to uh start having those conversations or different things and just completely changing their marriage. So for me, that's um sorry it's a long-winded answer, but um yeah, it's been it been incredible. I mean, it's just unbelievable just to see people's lives changing.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Um, I would probably say that the reason we wanted to create this was because I was always I feel like sexually healthy in our marriage. But there's so much purity culture, and in our religion, it's it's never talked about. It was like it's great when the day you're married, but don't even think of it, you know what I mean? Like there's just there was no education on it. And when we first decided, like, let's build a tool to help people with their sexual intimacy. And I mean, once we started building that, we started adding all the emotional tools into it too, right? Because they go hand in hand, absolutely. And we didn't want to miss that massive piece. That we're like, let's let's use some experts, some marriage therapists, and let's build this tool where people can go research about sex and sexual intimacy in marriage, and that it's beautiful, but it's designed by God, but you can have fun with it too. And there is nothing out there, we're very much against pornography, and we don't want to see things that we don't want to see, and we're very careful with our ice. And so, I'm like, what do we do for all these Christians out there that want a better sexual, passionate marriage, but don't know where to turn to education about this? And that was a lot of the main reason that we wanted to launch this was to help couples like really have that toolbox of like spice it up, but do it in the right way, right?

SPEAKER_07 18:02

And we honestly just did it for fun. We had no expectations, and then we realized wait, there's no one else doing this, and all of a sudden it just exploded.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

And it was needed, it's very needed.

SPEAKER_07 18:11

We said, All right, you know, this is this is the direction you want us to go, we'll go that way.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

So and when did when did you create this app, Ultimate Intimacy?

SPEAKER_07 18:20

When how long in 2017, and I think we're about a million downloads right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

So No way. I'm so thrilled for you. That is very cool. Why the name ultimate intimacy? How do how do you define that? I'm sure it was very carefully selected.

SPEAKER_07 18:35

Honestly, like uh we went through a lot of names, and that just that one just stuck. And the more the more we hear it, the more we feel like it was inspired, right? Because ultimate intimacy, it's not just about sex, it covers spiritual intimacy, emotional intimacy, um, physical intimacy. I mean, it covers everything. And and Amy and I talk about this all the time. You know, I think couples are all always trying to get to that ultimate intimacy, but unfortunately with life, it's like a roller coaster. You're gonna hit the peaks and then you're gonna have the downs and ups. But once you experience that ultimate intimacy where just kind of every aspect of your life with your spouse is in a good place, um, there's there's nothing better. I mean, there is nothing better in life than having a good marriage. And I would say there's probably nothing worse in life than having a bad marriage. And so we we we felt like ultimate intimacy. You know, that's that kind of explains what we want to help people find in their marriage or their relationship.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Across the board. I love it.

SPEAKER_06 19:37

Thank you. I love it. And you have a lot of experience now and probably hear from a lot of couples that you've talked, uh you've talked about all over the the world. I'm curious, is is there a pattern, right? Or are there common uh struggles? And a lot of our listeners are, you know, we want, yes, I can relate to that, relate to this. What are you typically seeing?

The Intimacy Gap Couples Get Stuck In

SPEAKER_06 19:57

And then where do couples uh I guess, yeah, where do they tend to get stuck?

SPEAKER_01 20:02

I would say this is what we talk about mostly on our podcast, is that intimacy gap. So we understand that there's a lot of high drive wives out there, but for the most part, in our niche, is that a lot of husbands have the higher drive, the women have the lower drive. That's what we're finding with the people that come to us. And they there we call it that sexual intimacy slash emotional intimacy gap where they kind of feel stuck. Like he's wanting them intimate, she's either exhausted or there's a resentment of some kind, something's going on, her libido is dropping, and all of a sudden there's this wedge, right? Like, you're not giving my needs, I'm not giving your needs, and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And that is like that kind of that gap is what we're trying to help couples fix. Like it's about serving each other, about having these hard conversations. Like your marriage, when it's like prioritized, like it's number one, like your whole entire life is gonna be happier, but that takes just it, it takes that effort on both sides, right?

SPEAKER_07 20:57

Well, and hitting on what she said, we again we talk about this a lot, that the first thing that happens is when a when a husband feels rejected sexually, he starts withdrawing emotionally most of the time, right? So he's like, Well, why am I gonna why am I gonna meet those needs? And so all of a sudden you have this standoff, and it just gets wider and wider and wider because then the wife's thinking, well, he's not meeting my needs, and he's thinking I'm saying, yeah, and we see so many couples that are literally in a miserable place, and it all starts because of this not understanding each other's needs, right? Like um, like we said, we talk about all the time, like sexual intimacy to a man is not just physical, it's so much more about being emotionally connected and desired, and um, like just his confidence level is tied to that as well, too. Um, and so yeah, hitting on what Amy said, I think the second biggest thing we see, well, and we have the one thing we have is we have a massive audience on social media between our platforms. I think we're close to 500,000. So Amy and I put out a ton of Polls, right? We want to hear what people are thinking. And it's really fun to just throw out polls of all sorts of different types and see what the audience comes back with, and then we'll do podcasts on those subjects and things like that. But the other the other common thing we hear all the time, you know, people will email in and say, hey, I'm having a problem with this. What with you know, with my wife or my husband, what should I do? The very first question we ask is, Well, you talk to your spouse about it. And 90 to 95% of the time, well, no, I'm too scared to. Well, so I go back to communication, right? If if you we can simply have better communication in marriage, I truly believe that almost any issue can be resolved or at least understood when you have good communication in marriage. Amy and I have seen that in our marriage. We've seen that with so many other couples. So, you know, encouraging couples to have better communication and you know, even if they don't agree with what their spouse is saying, at least try to understand where they're coming from. Because, gall, we all grow up with different experiences and backgrounds and circumstances that happen in life. So we're going to look at things differently naturally.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Ah, good for you. And it's we all say that, right? A lot of my couples will come in, my private practice, because of communication. And yet, what are so I wonder what some key ways are to bring up that difficult topic or that taboo

How To Start The Hard Conversation

SPEAKER_00 23:20

topic, or what are we so afraid to say? Jeff, some just uh, I don't know, quick one-liner, Nick and Amy, of what can we say at home that we had that 95% of people are not sane? How do we broach it? How do we start?

SPEAKER_07 23:34

So, so this might be a weird way to answer that, but we've we've thought about this a lot. And what a lot of the feedback we get is well, I don't want to talk to my spouse about sex or other tough topics, especially sex, because number one, they're gonna maybe react and think, well, what's he looking at or what's he reading, or things like that. So one of the things that we've done within the app is we put all these things in the app because it's really easy to get on an app and read a question to where it's not personal, right? You're reading a question to your spouse, hey, what's the your favorite thing to do in the bedroom? You know, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

It's written right here, right?

SPEAKER_07 24:10

Yeah, and now you can kind of blame the app, right? It's not coming from your spouse. Uh, because we do get a lot of people saying, I don't, you know, I don't what my wife's gonna think I'm looking at stuff or you know, ask wondering why I'm asking this question, or maybe I'm fear uh fearful of being rejected. And so when we put those in there and kind of framed them the way we did now, people are just like, it's so easy to get on and read questions and go through it and just start those conversations that may otherwise be very difficult to start. And I think the starting is the hardest part for sure, because you know, you you just feel so vulnerable and and what's my spouse gonna think? And am I gonna cause an argument? But once you start having those conversations and the floodgates open, you're like, oh, this is not only easy, but it's making things so much better. Because if you want things to get better in life, you gotta learn to talk about them. You have anything to add to that, my love? I was kind of long-winded on that one.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

So okay, all right.

Boundaries With Phones And Teamwork

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Well, based on all the other things you've learned, my friends, what are a few simple things couples can start doing right now that would make a difference in rebuilding connection and intimacy? What are your tips?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Oh besides just communicate, I'm we you know, we always hear that word, and it's like so you know, oh, boring. I I think that key word was good communication, right? Like, and when he was just saying, like, you have to rip that band-aid off. Like that, I remember the night it happened for our marriage. I ripped that band-aid off so hard, you know what I mean? It was like when we started like having some real deep conversation. Like, we're sitting down, we're talking about this. This marriage is gonna end. Like, are you are you in? You know, are you are we having this discussion? And I think it just takes one person being like, Look, we have got to discuss this. Like, I'm hurt, you're feeling hurt, like we got this. We want it, we I mean, there's no person out there that didn't get married to have that passion and that intimacy and that fun and that, you know, we that's what we signed up for. That's what we all signed up for. So it takes those deep conversations, and then it takes a plan. Like, what baby steps are we going to do to get back where we want to be? And maybe we're putting the kids first, maybe we're putting our careers first, maybe we're putting this or our phones first. I mean, phones are killing marriages right now. Like, we're adults, we're mature adults. Like, put a timer on your phone, put it in a different room, put it, keep it out of your room, whatever boundaries you have to start setting together to make your marriage passionate. If that's what you both want, you just you gotta set those boundaries. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 26:34

Going back to our experience too, one of the big things that we learned, and I think that made things so much easier is you often see couples that, you know, whether they're arguing or in conflict, it's always them, you know, they're against each other, right? Like they're trying to prove their point, why they're right or wrong. I think if couples can start looking at it rather than they're against each other, because if you're against each other, there's always going to be a winner and loser. Always, 100% of the time, right? But if you can work together as a team and say, okay, this is the problem, how do you and I as a team work together to solve this problem in our marriage? How do you and I work together on making these decisions or whatever? And I really feel like Amy and I started doing that early on to where instead of it being like, you know, we're trying to, here's why I'm doing this and here's why I'm doing this, and having a conflict, we looked at each other and we said, let's let's figure out the things that we do have that we we both want to, you know, get over or get through or resolve. And let's work together as a team to where you and I are always on the same team. And I think if couples can just simply look at look at that instead of something that's gonna divide them, to be like, let's whatever that problem is, let's make that problem something we together as a couple are gonna overcome and get through. And really just be, you know, we we do that in parenting our kids, even though we don't have the exact same parenting skills or the exact same parenting ideas. At the end of the day, we talk and we say, okay, what how do we want to do this? And what are your thoughts? What are my thoughts? This is how we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

You only win if you win together, right?

SPEAKER_06 28:13

Yeah, yeah, that teamwork, that the power of we, right? We're on the same, we're on the same team, we're on the same team.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

I know, I think we forget that in marriage. Like we do.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

We'll be right back after this brief miss.

SPEAKER_08 28:37

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_06 28:41

Yes, yeah, because it's it feels like everything has to be this, you know, petted against each other. I see this, this way, I see this this way. Well, let's see what we can see together. Yeah. Uh man, so powerful.

One Message For Men And Women

SPEAKER_06 28:53

I'm curious if you had a uh the entire world, right, of men all in one room, and you have women in another room, and you could share uh you know, one message, maybe they're the both you know in the same room, but if you had a message just for men, and then you go, okay, man, listen up. This is my message for you. Okay, women, listen up. This is my message for you. Uh what would that be? Would it be a different uh message to each of them? Or there's you know, individually, each of them you would want them to know. I'd love each of your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_07 29:23

That is a deep question. Do you want me to start with all right? Let's let maybe I'll approach this and say if I was talking to the women and Amy was talking to the men, because I think um, you know, it makes a lot more sense hearing from the opposite sex, right? Um if I if I was talking to the the women out there, and and again, this is just from the tens of thousands of messages that we constantly get, you know, my husband just wants sex. It's just all physical for him. I would tell the women out there that um it's so much more than that. Um, sex to your husband is emotional, it's it's um how he feels loved, it's how he feels desired. Um it just if if couples could learn to understand each other's needs in that aspect, um it'd be so much better.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 30:13

Yeah, well said.

SPEAKER_06 30:14

What do you think, Amy?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

All right, if I was talking to the husbands, my one-liner would be love is an action word. I I I love that because showing showing love, not just saying I love you, I go to work, I do these things. When you show your wife that you love her and she feels love, like really feels love, like you feel that connection, that is when she is going to want to naturally be intimate. And I just feel like that. A wife knows that when she feels loved and when she's just told that she loves. And so that conversation has to be happening in your marriage. If every couple, this is both sides. If every couple, we always say this in our podcast, if you both looked at each other when you woke up in the morning and you said, How can I love you better today? Your entire marriage would change. It's just that simple. Because she would be like, you know what? I just feel so burned out with the kids. If I could just have a night to myself, or or you could take over this, or could you take over dinner? Or and he was like, I would love to do that for you. She would automatically feel loved. And if he was like, if you could just not put me at the bottom of your to-do list today and like and prioritize me or flirt with me a little bit instead of putting all of your energy into the kids, and he said that and she's like, babe, I'm gonna try so much harder to do that today. The marriage would change. I mean, that that sentence alone is life-changing for couples. I just wish people would make it that easy.

SPEAKER_07 31:35

Like the day, the days Amy initiates with me, I'm the happiest guy in the world. Like, nothing can even touch it.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Like, I just and the days he's like, Hey, babe, I'm taking I'm gonna take the kids for a couple hours and I'm in charge of dinner tonight. I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you for that. I mean, we both work full-time, so that take that means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_06 31:52

Oh man. They sound like simple things, but we forget.

SPEAKER_07 31:56

We forget.

SPEAKER_06 31:56

Yeah, you'll just it is, it's these small and simple little things. Yeah, but you gotta do them consistently. And it's this outward mindset again instead of me, me, my knees, my knees, my it's like, okay, how can I let I I wrote it down. How can I love you better today?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 32:12

Me too. And then act on it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

And I kind of miss Nick. What did you say? What makes your day? What does Amy do? That sorry, I missed that part.

SPEAKER_07 32:20

Oh, when when Amy initiates with me, um, I'm the happ, I'm the happiest guy on the planet.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Um, she initiates sex with you or cuddling or something. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Anything intimate. Yes, we we did a reel that went viral one time, and it said, Women initiating with your husbands is a superpower that you have. And I think we had 10 million views on it. Like, I don't think women understand that when you'll flirt and say, I want you tonight, they're they're a new person.

SPEAKER_07 32:49

They're doing anything. Yeah, your husband will do anything for you.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Wow, you're on to something, Nick and Amy. It's really pretty cool. So if every couple listening could take just even one step starting today to strengthen their marriage, what would you tell them to do?

SPEAKER_07 33:05

Lead

Raise The Bar Above Mediocre

SPEAKER_07 33:06

us off. I know you got to do that.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

I would say, go ask, I would just say what I already said. Go ask your spouse that one question. If you start pouring into your marriage, your spouse is gonna want to pour back. If he started asking me that question every morning, I would I'm gonna think, you know what, I need to do the same. I see the effort that he's putting in. I need to be there too. Like that's where great marriage comes from.

SPEAKER_07 33:24

Yeah, and I, you know, I know it sounds boring, but again, I just based upon our audience and what we hear all the time is just start having better communication. And and that could mean, you know, getting on and doing some would you rather questions or truth or dare or whatever. Just like getting to know your spouse in so many different ways and having fun again and and asking those important questions and talking about things. Again, I know that sounds like the boring answer, but based upon what we see, like when you have good communication, it just opens up the door for everything else.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

My motto in our marriage and to every other marriage has always been marriage should never be mediocre. Um, we settle in our marriages. I think we need to raise that bar and be like, hey, where are we? Like, I'll just share a quick example really quick. But the other day we were on date night and he's like, where would you rate this part of our marriage? And I think he was hoping for a 10, and I said a seven. And that answer is like, oh, let's talk about that. And so we talked about, I'm like, well, it's kind of the stage of life. I just kind of feel like there's not a whole ton, like it's just kind of like a daily grind right now. It's okay, but okay. And his question, his answer was, how do we make it a 10? What can we do in our marriage to make it a 10? And so it really just comes down to not settling for a mediocre marriage. Make it passionate. That's a daily choice that you guys both make, whether you can choose to swipe your phone and look at reels all night, or you can choose to connect with each other. It's gonna make a big difference in your relationship.

SPEAKER_07 34:51

I assumed that her answer was probably gonna be a nine or ten. So when she said it wasn't a nine or ten, I was kind of shocked. I'm like, really?

SPEAKER_01 34:57

But it led to a great discussion. He didn't get offended by it. He said, Tell me what's gonna help you. And that's when a girl feels loved.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Good for you, Nick, for not taking that offensively.

SPEAKER_06 35:08

Yeah, yeah, that's great. I'm I'm curious, anything surprising you've learned along the way in this journey? Anything kind of surprising things or comments from people that have said anything.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

We built this app thinking that most people had a decent marriage, and we were completely shocked by the direction that our podcast and everything has gone because of the messages that we get. We didn't realize that people were struggling so bad.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

And so that's when we just kept adding all these resources into the app to help with that emotional connection, to help with the deeper stuff, because you know, like sexual intimacy is the cherry on top. When you have a great marriage, it comes natural. But when you don't, that's the first thing to go, right?

SPEAKER_07 35:50

So and I sadly would echo the same thing. I just in answering a lot of the emails and messages that we get. Um, yeah, just the same thing. I think I had the assumption that most people had decent marriages. Um, I'm finding out that most people are really struggling and hurting. But the good news is doing simple things can completely turn it around. And that's where Amy and I just are are trying to preach this is you know, we were at rock bottom thinking we were gonna get divorced, and now I I mean I couldn't be happier, right? Like it doesn't mean that we have a perfect marriage. We still have disagreements, we still, you know, go through things that everyone else goes through. But like honestly, like most people feel like, oh, to change around my marriage is gonna be like climbing Mount Everest. Like, that's just too, it's gonna be too difficult, and it really isn't, right? Like you just start implementing the right tools and doing some things. If you've got two spouses that want to make their marriage better, like it can turn around quick. Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah, that was the two of you. You know, we talked a bit about women's women's superpowers, Amy. I I'm so curious about this, if you don't mind me asking. Where did you get in the purity culture you grew up in? You talked about, where did you have this idea that sexual intimacy is gonna be important no matter how I feel, we got to keep this going. Who taught you that? Or was that just something intuitive?

SPEAKER_01 37:13

I think it was something that I've learned throughout 24 years of marriage. I'm not gonna lie. I see in my own life that when he feels prioritized, when he feels loved and he feels like I want him or desire him, he's a different person. That comes from like experience and doing it in my own relationship. I truly believe that I have kept this marriage together through hard, hard times by not letting that part of our marriage get cut off. And like I said, it starts with strong emotional connection and that foundation of respect and kindness and loyalty. Absolutely. Absolutely. But when you prioritize that in a great marriage, it keeps it passionate. I I would have to say it was literally just from learning. I don't know that I was ever taught anything like that, but I always knew that I wanted a passionate marriage. I didn't want a roommate marriage.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

We'll be right back after this brief message.

SPEAKER_08 38:18

And we're back. Let's dive right in.

Where To Find Their Resources

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Well, ultimate intimacy. We love that. We've got the app, and you're doing so many good things with social media. Where can our viewers, listeners find out more about you and your wonderful resources, please?

SPEAKER_07 38:33

Yeah, so you have our website, which is ultimateintimacy.com. Pretty easy. You can kind of link to our products we have for both emotional and physical intimacy, uh, our apps. Um, our Instagram is at ultimateintimacy.com.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Yeah, nope. Ultimate intimacy app.

SPEAKER_07 38:51

Oh, sorry, my bad.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

He doesn't do the social media part. Um, he just makes videos.

SPEAKER_07 38:56

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Yeah, so we have great physical products because we actually we did the app and then we realized a lot of people wanted to gift them like to their spouse or just have they didn't want to be on their phones, which is great because a lot of people are like, no, I don't want to connect my marriage by being on my phone. So then we launched like our physical line to kind of take some of those features off the app and put them in physical products. So, and like intimacy aids we feel like have been marriage changing for us. Um, I know there's a lot of you know different feelings on that. So, yeah, just we just just want to help people in any way that we can.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

And there's something for everyone, right? Absolutely. Some things, some couples are driven towards and other things other couples will like. Yep. Well different.

SPEAKER_07 39:37

You're you're exactly right. And that's what we've tried to done do with the app and everything we do is you know, let people have what they're comfortable with, right? We don't try to push things. We're just like every comfort couple's gonna feel different about what's comfortable and what's not comfortable, and and uh we absolutely respect that, but we also want to provide for those that you know do want to dive in and learn about sexual intimacy and and how the female body works and how the male body works and all the things that I was never taught and Amy was never taught, um, that can you know probably help couples through a lot of rocky times in their life, you know, understanding those things better.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

So we will add your tremendous resources to our show notes for easy finding. Thank you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Nat.

SPEAKER_06 40:24

Yeah, for sure. Hey, before we let you go, we like to ask all of our guests a couple of questions.

Takeaways Marriage Before Kids

SPEAKER_06 40:28

The first one in honor of the name of our podcast, Stronger Marriage Connection. What do you feel uh is the key? And it may have been something you mentioned earlier, and feel free to mention it again. But each of you, uh, what is the key to a stronger marriage connection? Amy, what what about you first?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Never stop flirting with each other. Or or or just dating each other. Like you can't just raise kids and go through the motions every day and forget that you came first. Like, go have fun, get outside, go hiking, go get off your phones, go do something together. Like, you gotta keep that.

SPEAKER_07 41:02

Yeah. And I would go back, I'd go back to Amy's motto marriage should never be mediocre. Um, just that simple statement. Um Don't settle. Don't settle, don't s I'm gonna end with this. The first the first thing people always say is what you know, when people are struggling in marriage or you know, their sex life isn't what they want it to be, the first thing people say is, well, that's just marriage, right? That's that's the way marriage is. No, it's not. You don't have to settle for that kind of marriage. Your marriage doesn't have to be mediocre. You can have the marriage that you and your spouse have always desired. And uh great.

SPEAKER_06 41:38

Yeah, love it, love it. All right, and the last one is uh we call it a takeaway of the day. And it sounds like there's been a lot of things that you you want us to take home if there's like one message. Yeah, you may have just settled it, you may have just talked about it. Either of you want to answer that one as far as a take-home message.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Okay, I'll do another one.

SPEAKER_06 41:55

We'll do it for both of us. I'll do it for both of us.

unknown 41:57

No.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Uh marriage before kids.

unknown 42:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

I have to say it causes a lot of argument on social media. A lot of people don't want to hear that. It's not a time thing, it's a it's a where the best gift that you can give your kids is to have a happy marriage. And I I swear by that. Like, we spend way more time with our kids than we do each other, like on a time thing. But my kids, now that they're moving out, you know, they're they're going to that next stage, they look at us and after all these years, they're like, Thank you for teaching us what a happy marriage can look like. And so many people resist that. They're like, Oh, I can't believe you could do that. If you love your kids, give them the foundation of a loving marriage because your home is happier. The entire atmosphere is, I mean, they're gonna learn what marriage looks like. They're gonna learn that it could be passionate, they could be happy, that it's great. And that's gonna help their entire future. You're gonna be happier, just everybody's happier with that.

SPEAKER_07 42:51

Well, what's a what's amazing too, and I well, I won't stay long, but um, hitting on that is our kids constantly are saying, I can't wait to get married. I can't wait to have a you know, and they don't know, you know, maybe we've done a bad job saying, Well, it's gonna be very good. We've shared the very hard times, but it it's interesting to see they're like they're just like, Oh, we can't wait to get married and have an amazing marriage.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Because it can be great. It can be great, it takes some effort, right?

SPEAKER_06 43:17

Yeah, love that. Yeah, Liz, what about you? What's your take-home position?

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Well, first off, Nick and Amy, I I don't know that there's a lot of kids that are saying that. Actually, we know just the opposite. A lot of young people are not saying, I can't wait to get married. Yeah. So wow, we give you all the credits. That is a pay, that's a payday. That really is. Or having your kids say, Thank you for showing us a happy marriage. Is that what it was? Thank you for showing us.

unknown 43:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yeah. That's that's quite something. You know, I love this advice of don't settle for mediocre. I think of the me, emphasizing, don't settle for me mediocre. Right? Because it is still very much a team effort. And it is for me just to say, Oh, that's just that's just how it's gonna be. It's like, I'm forgetting about a partner. It's like, I want I wonder what he would like. I wonder what's important to him. What if we could shoot for the stars? What if we didn't have to settle for mediocre? Right. I thought that was great. I love that. And Dave, what about you? What stands out to you most for our conversation today with Amy and Nick?

SPEAKER_06 44:14

Yeah, you guys, this has been so, so helpful. I hope, I guess my takeaway is that I hope that listeners will say to themselves, okay, I'm not just gonna listen to this, I'm going to do something. Like you actually have to do some making, you know, uh your marriage a priority. Whether I'm gonna start doing date night, you know, we're gonna start having conversations after the kids are in bed, we're gonna go on a walk, or we're gonna we're gonna talk about this. Maybe we have not talked about it. It's been kind of a weird, awkward discussion. Open up, have that conversation. I love the app can make things the communication, it can make that back and forth uh better for you. I ideas branch out. It can be such a beautiful thing as you talked about. We just need education and more education. Uh especially I would say, yeah, in our in our culture, in this Utah culture as well. Yeah, we've gotta open up. Don't be afraid. Yeah, there is much more there that is healthy and and and okay. It's not just pornography, or we don't talk about it. Right? There's all kinds of wonderful resources in this this uh this ultimate uh intimacy app is is one that can really be helpful. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 45:23

Our pleasure.

SPEAKER_07 45:23

And one last thing, just to leave your listeners, if something's important to your spouse, it should be important to you, and vice versa. And I think if spouse can remember that, um, I think that that is a game changer as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

And you'll probably find that answer in How Can I Better Love You Today?

SPEAKER_07 45:40

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

How can I better love you today? I think I'll be hearing what matters more. I hope so.

SPEAKER_06 45:46

Uh wonderful. Amy, Nick, thanks again. Thanks so much for taking time to come on and share your story and your journey and uh the app with us. Thanks so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_06 45:57

Thank you so much for having us on. Sure appreciate it. Yeah. All right, friends, that does it for us. We'll see you next time on another episode of the Stronger Marriage Connection podcast.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

And remember, it's the small things that create a stronger marriage connection. Take good care now.

SPEAKER_05 46:14

Thanks for joining us today.

Final Thoughts And How To Follow

SPEAKER_05 46:16

Hey, do us a favor and take a second to subscribe to our podcast and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel at Utah Marriage Commission, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. Be sure to smash the like button, leave a comment, and share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at StrongerMarriageWife and Facebook at Stronger Marriage. So be sure to share with us which topics you loved or which guests we should have on the show next. If you want even more resources to improve your marriage or relationship connection, visit strongermarriage.org where you'll find free workshops, e-courses, in-depth webinars, relationship surveys, and more. Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. And finally, a big thanks to our producer, Rex Polanis, and the team at Utah State University, and you, our audience. You make this show possible. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.