Red Flags Are Everywhere, Calm Down

Some stories grab you by the collar and make you rethink what strength really means. Liam Wakefield’s journey—from a chaotic childhood to a rebellious music scene, the rigors of the infantry, a rare diagnosis, and finally, the therapy room—reveals how belonging and language can pull us back from the brink. We talk about the invisible weight of shame, why isolation is lethal, and the quiet power of being able to say exactly what you feel.

Liam explains how he rebuilt an identity after losing the uniform and why nine friends lost to suicide pushed him toward prevention and practice. We unpack the nervous system in plain terms: how unspoken hurt becomes reactivity, how “parts” of us take the wheel in conflict, and how naming emotions reduces threat so we can choose rather than explode or shut down. We go deep on sextortion and the digital life of teens—what happens when social standing feels endangered, why boys struggle to show vulnerability, and what parents can do right now to keep connection alive. Hint: transparency beats surveillance, curiosity beats judgment, and open dialogue starts long before a crisis.

For daters and partners, we focus on repair over perfection. The mask always slips; the question is how two people handle rupture. Liam offers a balanced take on masculinity—strength without the armor, courage without aggression—and practical cues for spotting when anxiety masquerades as intensity. We also challenge the culture of “red flags.” Everyone has them; safety and fit decide what’s workable. And when purpose turns into compulsion, Liam’s remedy is simple and profound: play. Laughter, roller skates, and unstructured time with the people you love can bring your nervous system back online.

Listen in for lived wisdom, field-tested tools, and hope you can actually use. 

If this conversation resonates, share it with someone who needs it, follow the show, and leave a review so more people can find these stories. 

And if you need crisis support in the US, call or text 988 or contact SAMHSA at 1-800-985-5990

To find out more about Liam and his work go to:  www.liamjwakefield.com

Connect with me on Instagram @KalieNitzsche - I’d love to hear what you think of this episode so please tell me in the comments.

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Disclaimer: The Just Lookin’ Out Podcast and content posted by SaferHer Studios LLC and Kalie Nitzsche is presented solely for general informational, educational, and entertainment purposes. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from this podcast or related sites or social media is at the user’s own risk. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical or mental health condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions.

Transcript

Red Flags And Real Love

SPEAKER_07 0:00

The use of terms like red flag nowadays are just such a a go-to i in situations that they're not warranted. And I think it's so damaging it's so damaging. Like and it it drives me crazy to hear people and they sort of say, Oh, that he he's got so many red flags. Like we all do. I haven't met a single human being that isn't littered with red flags. It's just whether or not their red flags matches your red flags and you can work well with them. Yeah. Ultimately, yeah, you should bring it. You should bring out the parts of the person that you love the most, you know, the real darker parts of them. You should be able to bring them out because it's in that love that you have the strength and to work through them.

Setting The Tone And Topic

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Hi, I'm Kaylee Nitchie, and this is Just Looking Out. Today's episode is a little different. It's quieter, heavier, but also, if we do this right, deeply human. We're talking about how our online lives are shaping our mental health, why so many men are struggling to be vulnerable, and how shame, especially in digital spaces, can become dangerous when it's carried alone. My guest today understands this not just clinically, but personally.

Introducing Liam’s Path To Mental Health Work

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Please welcome Liam Wakefield, a trauma and psychology specialist who started his practice after he completed his military service and has come to be a highly sought-after voice on the topic of mental health. Liam, welcome to Just Looking Out.

SPEAKER_07 1:32

Katie, thank you for having me on there.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Liam, can you tell us a little bit about your experience in this space and um just kind of start us off with just a little bit about you and how you came to be uh so well versed in the trauma and psychology, um specifically around military vets and what you did with the National Health Service therapy, et cetera.

SPEAKER_07 1:57

Yeah. Okay. So for me, it really started out. I guess my awareness to this started out when I got diagnosed with a condition uh in the military and was told I was I was being medically retired. I had kind of pinned a lot of my my my life and future on just being a serviceman. And that's where I felt that I was most suited. And I think the important thing there is I felt that that's where I belong because given the childhood I'd had, it kind of shaped me into not feeling that I belonged anywhere else. So finding something difficult to to sort of exist within become a real source of strength for me. So then to be told I was being medally retired because I couldn't be that anymore, it really broke down a lot of parts or at least perceptions and perspectives of myself in there. And I recognized that after hitting a particularly difficult point in life where I didn't want to move forward with my own life, I then obviously having two children at that point, very young children, had to find some source of grounding. And I think it began in a level of self-inquiry, really trying to understand myself. And I was very fortunate to have a lot of help through the military, through mental health, as well as physical rehabilitation and working with some incredibly just incredible professionals in their own fields, it really inspired me to sort of dig a little deeper within myself. And

Military Retirement And Identity Collapse

SPEAKER_07 3:20

I guess I challenged a lot of what I was facing and and trying to understand myself amongst that really gave me some tools to to carve a path and move forward. And then there I sort of I got a disabled veteran scholarship and and sort of went on my own path of understanding it from an academic perspective, but then also using the lived experience to really carve out my own practice. And I was fortunate enough to work over in North Carolina at um at Fort Bragg, uh doing some suicide prevention. Then I came back and worked at the NHS for a period of time before getting into lecturing. I was doing a lot of lecturing at the colleges around psychotherapy and counselling and uh and then opening up my own private practice, which has been it's been one of the most incredible steps forward within my own life in really kind of trusting myself and and believing in myself and what what I could do, having given having been given so many, you know, limits to my ability to do things given the condition I was facing, and uh right the way back to childhood, you know, limiting beliefs from what people had told me and what I could never become. And yeah, the journey had so many evolutions within that.

Hitting Bottom And Finding Purpose

SPEAKER_07 4:31

But I think one of the most prominent points for there was I'd lost nine friends to PTSD, um, or PTSD-related uh incidents that led to suicide. And I think there you only need one to really look at life and think what's happened there, but to see it happen again and again and again really starts to beg the question as what what can be done and what can be changed to to try and make a bit of a difference here, if not to a wider community, at least the people that you you have closest to you. Uh that was a big, a big thing for me to really lean into that for myself and for others. And I think this whole thing has been a journey, you know, the duality of this journey has been not just for everybody else, but to really understand myself in this too. So there's been a huge level of self-exploration which I have enacted out in in what I've done. And I think it's been helpful for people that I've worked with as well as people that are close to me.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Well, I know you're in the UK, but I wish I could give you like a giant hug after that intro. And um, I can feel my own heart like just really going out to you. So before we just dive deeper into this, I want to gently just let our listeners know that today's episode is really heavy and it includes discussions of suicide, trauma, online exploitation, bullying. So if at any point people that are listening need support, whether you're in the US, you can call or text 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. You can also contact SM S A M H S A by texting

Childhood Wounds And Belonging

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Talk With Us to 66746 or calling 1-800-985-5990. And if you're listening outside the US, we'll share additional resources at the end of the episode. I just think it's really important to take a pause there because um a lot of my episodes aren't so heavy, but I think this one is exceptionally important, uh, especially as we round out the year to understand the gravity of just what's going on in the world as it pertains to mental health and what people are struggling with, and just understanding that this is a global phenomenon that we all need to be aware of and take note that, you know, it might not be happening to you, but it could easily be happening to your friend or neighbor. So, Liam, I'd love to start not with what you do, but who you were. You kind of mentioned it a little bit, um, your childhood. You've referenced it a few times when you were telling me about, you know, high-level what it is that um led you to this space. Can you talk to me a little bit about just being a kid and maybe why you didn't feel like you were so accepted or had a group for you and why the military felt so, so grounding in that way?

SPEAKER_07 7:19

Yeah. Um again, like just to caveat what you said there with the heaviness of this, I know I can appreciate that these subjects are heavy, but they're so important to look at. And it's not that everybody has had some of the bigger T traumas in life, but everybody has had some experience of something that's shaped who they are. And I don't believe there's any level that is worse than anyone else. It's it's all subjective. So I know my story at times can feel heavy, um, but it's there's there's things to relate, I think, for everybody in the sense that we can all face suffering to the degree in which we experience life. And for me, this has been a big source of connecting with people as well. And whether it's and then we'll talk through within the story side of things, is I've had a lot of different, you know, a lot of different strings to my bow in in in the life because I've always been on some kind of journey of trying to understand things at a different level, and it does all come back to the childhood. And for me, a childhood, you know, my I was left, my sister and I were left by by our mum uh

From Rock Stages To The Infantry

SPEAKER_07 8:24

at a very young age. Um, and I was fortunate to have a phenomenal father who you know did his best to sort of hold us in a space that we could at least be children for a brief period of time, but we had faced a a pretty, pretty tough childhood in that response uh that respect. And you know, there were things that were gone on in there um within abuse and abandonment that really did create a lot of fear. We we were very, you know, we were children that carried fear deeply in us, in in the things that we had done and the way we lived, and which is such an important thing for children, is you lose so much of the element of play when you have to exist in a space that's so filled with fear. And that that transferred into many of the years that followed and the many things that we did. So by the time I'd hit teenage years, as well as just having the teenage angst and the hormones, I had this gaping like motherhood wound that that existed there. That was you know, it turned me volatile. It made it really hard to just love myself. And I think that in turn, over many years, you know, until until relatively recently, created a real toughness that made it almost unable to accept being loved because I couldn't love myself at all. And I think this transcended through so many iterations of who I was as a man and who I was as a teenager and who I was as a boy right the way back. And despite having an immensely fantastic uh father who was so soft and and connecting, he was just wonderful. But at the same time, I I I think the lack of what I experienced as a childhood in connection and communication and love just it created a lot of of pain and a lot of what I would rather not use as damage, but it was damaged, it was fractures, it fractured parts of me in ways that that shaped pretty tough exteriors going forward, and that's why it became so suitable for service. Yeah, because my teenage years from about 13 to 18, I was I was gonna be a rock star, you know. I had long black hair, cowboy boots and leather trousers, and yeah, but I was I lent into the pain. Yeah, I know, right? The pain of what existed there.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

So wait, were you was it giving like Marilyn Manson? Or I that's what I have in my head.

SPEAKER_07 10:49

No, that's think more guns

The Breaking Point And A Wake-Up

SPEAKER_07 10:51

and roses in the 1980s, yeah. Um and I think I'd like to think that most of the images are adapted from online.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

So one can only hope, but I I'm gonna absolutely need to see a picture. I'm sorry. Um like that was just so moving what you said earlier, and um sometimes it's good to have a little comedic relief there. So thank you for making the schedule.

SPEAKER_07 11:15

That's it. I had to line it off. It'd be a little bit too heavy, wasn't it? But I like I think it's important to notice that as well, though, because at the end of the day, I went into that world, you know, with it was just pure rebellion. I was in such a rebellious stage that and music was such a channel to channel my hurt and channel that pain and channel that aggression, and it worked beautifully until it became incredibly toxic. And I I just remember I remember my dad being so distraught and thinking I'm I'm gonna lose my son to drink and drugs and violent behaviour because that was the world I was in, and you know, that wasn't who I was, you know. I was very much still that really hurt, scared little boy, and he could see that, and I think it created such a damaging thing to such a beautiful relationship that I've had with my dad my entire life, which you know we managed to to mend. Um, and I did it by joining the army. I I remember we'd got given a record contract as well. I mean, we'd got everything that I'd wanted in music to just step forward into something great, and I ended up shaving my head and joining the army because I thought it was the only way I could escape what was clearly a self-destructive act,

Diagnosis, Chronic Pain, And Loss

SPEAKER_07 12:26

and the army seemed so suited for me because it was hard and it was hurt, like it hurt. It was tough, it wasn't easy. I joined the infantry and I wanted to just do the the hardest thing I could do in that, just uh again reflectively, when I look back and I I thought I was doing it from a place of pride, but I actually think I was doing it also from a place of self-destruction. And there's a level of self-flagellation in putting yourself through something that is just abhorrently painful for the pretense that you can mask it as I'm doing something good, but realistically, again, there was that angsty teenager that just wanted to hurt. I wanted to I wanted to feel, I wanted to feel something, and I didn't know how to feel or navigate feelings. And the army provided a wonderful platform to do that.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

What was the defining moment where you knew you needed to make a change?

SPEAKER_07 13:20

From the teenage years into shaving the head, uh luscious black hair off and putting the cowboy boots aside. Yeah, I think I was incredibly drunk and we'd done some gigs and it just disgustingly, like not in a good place. And again, I even use the word disgustingly, and I shouldn't in the sense that I'm denigrating that version of me, which I need more compassion for, but it was bad. And I think and a friend had locked me in our rehearsal space, and I freaked out. I freaked out because he'd locked me in there and they'd all gone to bed, and I ended up smashing the place to pieces. But what was coming out, when I look at it reflectively, there was a point in my childhood when I was locked in a space which was incredibly vulnerable and threatening to me, uh like a five-year-old. So this brought out again the worst of that. And I remember going home and I remember uh the guitarist or the drummer and the bass guitarist's dad coming over, like we were 17 years old, and and I'd smashed a metronome of his which was really old and it was really meant something to him, and he had built our space for us, and and it was a disappointment in his face, and he was like, Don't come around her again, like that. And I was like, wow, okay, I've really hurt somebody by my actions, you know. But

Choosing Life And A New Mission

SPEAKER_07 14:41

my actions were just reactive to the fear I was feeling, but I'd hurt somebody, not physically, but emotionally. And I think that just destroyed me because that's not who I ever thought I was and never wanted to be. And I think it was a real wake-up call that if I don't change, I'm gonna hurt more people. And that's not acceptable.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Yeah, and I think what's so extraordinary to me with your story is that instead of shutting down or turning away from that pain, one, you you recognized it, right? You were aware of it. Um, you you knew that you needed to do something drastic in order to uh change the course of your own life, but also you took it a step further when you left the military to how do I stop this from happening again, or how do I stop this from happening to other people, which I just think is so profoundly um amazing in terms of just your ability as a human to see that and help others. So thank you so much um for sharing your story. I know that it's never easy, but I think it's important to stress that if anybody's that is feeling these kinds of things or struggling with mental health and they're listening to this right now, like you've been at the what is it fair to say, like you you've been at the depths of it, I mean, and clawed

Discovering Therapy Through Connection

SPEAKER_04 16:05

your way out and and and it's possible.

SPEAKER_07 16:07

Yeah, it absolutely is possible. And I think that that what's key to note here as well is it's not that you only have you know you don't only hit it once. I think I've hit the bottom a few times and and you every time you can, you can. You can claw out of this, you can climb out of this, you can learn what it's like to be there, and and the version of you that exists at the bottom of there, I think, is an important thing to recognise because you'll always hit a low moment. Like life, you fluctuate through life. You know, we oscillate between these states of hyper-arousal and hypo arousal regularly. And I think it's important to understand what versions of ourselves we meet in those places. And I think when we hit a time that is particularly difficult, because it doesn't take much, you know, it really doesn't take much. I went from what I thought was a was a good life. You know, I was married with two kids, they were very young kids. I was I had the dreams of where I wanted to go in the military with special forces. I was I was the fittest guy I thought at that point I'd ever I'd never been fitter, and I thought it was all going great. And within six months, my entire life had crashed and fallen out and everything had fallen apart, and I was alone. I was found myself not long after that in a you know council house flat on my own with nothing in it, like on the way out of the military, and that was it. And it was back at rock bottom, staring at the estate council state I'd grown up in, thinking, how have I ended up here? Like, how has this happened?

SPEAKER_08 17:41

And it it's it can so quickly get there.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

Can you walk us through a little bit about why you ended up ending your military career or why it had to end?

SPEAKER_07 17:53

Yeah, so I um I had pain in my eyes, and I was boxing for my unit at the time, and just put it down to not being a very good boxer. And I was like, oh well,

Learning The Language Of Feelings

SPEAKER_07 18:04

okay, but then it wouldn't go, and I was like, okay, I was really starting to struggle with that pain, and I went and had some scans, and they said, look, there's lumps at the back of your eyes. Um, we need to get them investigated further. And I thought, I'm not doing that. I said, the moment I do that, that's it. But the military are gonna jump on this and I'm gonna be stuffed. That would be my career over. At this point, I was like nine and a half years in, so I I wanted to do the full 24. I, you know, we were sorted, you know, in the military, you get a military house, and we had a nice like three-bedroom property in the in the New Forest in England. So for anyone not listening, it's just this beautiful place in England. And I thought, well, yeah, I don't want to lose all of this, and the job I was doing was great, and uh the direction I was going was fantastic. So I didn't want to screw that up by voicing my health concerns, so I left it. I left it for about a year, and it got worse and worse, and other parts of my body started to go, pain started to appear in all sorts of places, and I thought I'm not in a good way, and uh, so I went and got the scans, and I I ended up getting diagnosed with a rare genetic condition called Pseudophantoma elasticum, which is a mouthful. Um, and yeah, they said I was losing my eyesight, um, and they said I was you know, I

Building Self-Awareness In Conflict

SPEAKER_07 19:24

was gonna be unable to continue being a soldier, and they were gonna have to medically retire me. And I remember getting the conversation and I was sat there and it was one of those moments of thinking, come on, how how much do you want to throw at somebody? I was just like my life just bottomed out. And they said, Look, you're never gonna be able to work again and you're never gonna be able to train again. And they just pulled my life apart. And I know a lot of them are doing it from the perspective of fear because they didn't know much about the condition, so they just kind of jump on it quick as anything and say, just don't do anything. Um and yeah, I just I watched my life slowly erode in that space of time and I watched my mental health erode and it it got worse and worse and the pain. Obviously, from a psychogenic perspective, the moment my mental health fell apart, the pain went up. And yeah, I was just living in this this space of chronic pain. And that that then had a huge impact on the marriage, as well as my realization that I was not in the place I wanted to be with the person I wanted to be with. And I just retreated and wanted to be alone. And it was in that moment that again I found in the darkest corners of myself the worst of me. And that came out.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

How did you pull yourself out?

SPEAKER_07 20:41

Honestly, I it got to the point of a transition from passive suicidation suicidality to active. And I had a moment where I I went went to and end everything. And through drinking far too much and botching it completely up, I was then faced with the the fact of I've just got that far, of ending my life and having two small kids and thinking, what would I have done to them if that had gone through and that had worked? And it was such a wake-up call, having known as well that nine of my friends had committed suicide through PTSD, you know, or suicide from PTSD, that I was gonna about to be another number on another sheet somewhere, another product of war that most people now have don't even have any recollection of. And it was a big thing. It was uh it was a whole like my pain was just non-existent and so kept deeply within myself that no one really knew what was going on. And I think that was the big wake-up call for me was like I need to understand this. And if I can understand it in me, then maybe I can understand it in others, and if I can understand it in them, then maybe I can help. And that for me was a big contributor to the journey I had to get on to. Was because there had to be a reason that I could go through everything that I went through from childhood, through the teenage years, through the military, then through getting diagnosed,

Boundaries, Workaholism, And Rest

SPEAKER_07 22:09

to then separation and suicide, to then be in a place where I could rebuild to then help others. Otherwise, what's it all for?

SPEAKER_04 22:21

I'm very glad that you botched that that up. So, yes, um, we're very thankful that that worked out in in that way. Obviously, like that was just such a defining pivotal moment for you. And you have these precious little ones and all the enormous emotions that come with all of that. How did you decide that, you know what, I'm gonna figure this out? I'm gonna study this and learn what it is that I'm actually experiencing, both mentally, psychologically. What was that journey like for you?

SPEAKER_07 22:59

Yeah, it was um there's such a poignant moment in that that stands out above everything else. And it was, I'd spent a month living at a pain rehabilitation facility. It's uh it's called um Stanford Hall, um, where a lot of disabled veterans and wounded soldiers go for rehabilitation. And I was there for chronic pain. And I was with this lady, she was a major, she was far higher rank than I was, and but we just we connected, we got on really well, and um, you know, she there was something about her that held quite a maternal figure, and we really bonded. And every morning we'd meet, we'd have coffee, and then we'd meet in the evening and have dinner, and through the day we'd do our various therapies and rehabilitation, you know, we'd do yoga and different we could see a number of therapists and lots of different things. It was great, it was a wonderful

Finding Joy And Playfulness Again

SPEAKER_07 23:50

month and difficult in its own right, but it wasn't and I I I can be contentious and I can be pretty, I can be a noal sometimes, I guess. And I think that that come out in that environment where I'd sit opposite somebody and we'd be talking about it, and I'd think, okay, right, I'm gonna go and read a book about that and come back tomorrow and and then and then regurgitate that back to them. But it was doing me no favour at all because it was blocking my own growth and my own change and my own vulnerability. Um but then it was a conversation with this lady that she said at the end, she was like, Thank you. And I said, what for? And she was like, Well, all this stuff's been fine, but it's our conversations we've had that that have that have saved my life. And she was like, and I I don't think I would have done that without you. So you know, I think that's what you should be doing in life. And at that point, just to just to note on that, is I was a I was a big guy, I was you know, I thought I was all strength physically. I didn't I going through school, I was always told I was stupid, I I was I I didn't do well, I dropped out of school, I uh early on, had to redo a lot of my education in the military. Um, but because I was you know brought up in a space of such chaotic disorganization, my ability to focus and learn was just non-existent uh until I kind of had my own space in my own head that I could do that. So I never even thought of it as a pursuit in regards to learning something. I just used my physicality as a way to move forward. So to have somebody say, look, it doesn't matter that your body's broken, your mind is is is is brilliant here in in doing this, so you should do this. And that really sparked something for me of going, okay, so talking works. I'm good at talking. And that kind of set me on a path to go, well, how do I do that? How do I do more of that? And um, yeah, so I just started to look into it that way and did some courses and then did some, yeah, went to school and and relearned and and sort of really put everything into really trying to cultivate an ability to articulate myself. Because I again I remember as a kid, I always had it in my head as how what I wanted to say, but I couldn't articulate myself. The moment it got to my lips, it just disappeared and fear stopped any ability to do it. And I think being able to then go back and learn how to apply a language to how I was feeling then become such a point of, you know, it's like an aha moment of going, I get it, right? I get I get what this is, like I can, I can articulate this. Which comes into a lot of what I practice now with with my patients is giving them a language or giving them a map to navigate themselves with the right and appropriate language in which they can then describe that. Because the moment you can, the moment you can articulate how you feel, everything starts to change. And that's the first thing that we tend to lose when we get reactive or we hit that space of you know that fear center really triggers. We lose our ability to articulate ourselves or at least coherently.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

So tell us and help us understand

Sextortion, Shame, And Isolation

SPEAKER_04 26:57

like what's the first step in being able to articulate how it is we're feeling and identifying that we're in a bad space.

SPEAKER_07 27:04

Yeah, I mean, first is it's awareness. You know, one of the biggest things is is is really getting to see how we're responding in situations like that. I think even in my adult form as a psychotherapist and thinking I have a good understanding of it, I will still get called out by my partner for saying something that I haven't thought through properly or thought about at enough level of awareness. And it could be something so related to my past that it just it's it's innate and it just seems so natural. But then it's when somebody says, Oh, hey, by the way, you do you recognize you're doing this thing? And this is why talk therapy is fantastic. So people can have an opportunity to to voice and have it come back to them without judgment from a perspective of, oh, that doesn't sound good, or or that's not that that isn't how you think it should be sounding or or responding to something. And it's about being able to take a pause within ourselves before we make judgments or say things within the moment. Because ultimately we are guided and governed by the defense mechanisms we have. So if you've grown up in an environment where your reactivity is to a threat which is dangerous or harmful, then the level of volatility that will come with that can be really damaging to a relationship or a friendship or you know, a communicative environment in which doesn't warrant that. You know, it's as you can say something that's completely left field and unexpected, but it's a defense mechanism stepping in. So when when I work with people, it's about navigating the parts of the person to recognize well what parts are coming up in what situations here, and how can you learn to better dialogue those parts so that it doesn't take over and come out in a situation that leaves you in more of a dire conversation than it needs to.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

I mean, it it it sounds so logical when you hear it being put out like that. I think that actually doing it and and the ability to be aware is so much more difficult, right? It almost like you just mentioned somebody calling it out for you. Um I sometimes had these like almost moments where I like reflect on like how I reacted and it's not how I want to be or live my life, etc. So then it how do you I I guess how are you able to have your own self-awareness rather than somebody else calling it out for you?

SPEAKER_07 29:39

Yeah, I mean, it it ultimately it has to has to generate from the self, right? So it has to be within you. I mean, it's it's wonderful when people do call out or it's not, it's quite uncomfortable, but it's great. It's great, it's great to have people.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

It might not be great in the moment, but it like it is a reflective period for sure.

SPEAKER_07 29:57

Yeah. In in the long run, it works out better.

SPEAKER_05 29:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:00

I think sitting with yourself and understanding truly what what what works and what doesn't work for you, and understanding why. I mean, you don't have to take too long before you notice things that start to bother you and you notice response. If you just take a moment to sit with the inner dialogue that you've got going on, it doesn't take long before you recognize voices within that dialogue that you wouldn't want to say out loud, or you'd rather it not be heard by somebody. So then if you take away the veil in which sits between it being in your head and it being said out loud, this is where we recognize reactivity patterns. So if you have a pattern of getting pretty fired up in an argument, but you've got an inner dialogue that can be pretty, pretty denigrating and put somebody down, then you can pretty much assure that there'll be a point in which that's going to spill out in certain environments and that's gonna really cause a lot of harm. Same way as when we look at relationships when somebody

Parenting For Trust And Safety Online

SPEAKER_07 31:04

can, you know, to some degree gaslight or be be pretty pretty manipulative. And oftentimes it's not it's not a conscious act, these are unconscious processes that have been so fixed within how they've been brought up and their learned behaviors and their defense mechanisms that it's that it becomes innate. So being able to sit with the inner dialogue and recognizing, well, what how do you voice things to yourself and how do you voice things internally about other people? Because if that's not good and if you haven't got a congruent and you know, softer approach in your inner dialogue, then your reflections in the difficult times are going to be more aligned with that.

SPEAKER_08 31:44

You know, it's gonna it's gonna create a lot more conflict externally.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Okay, so on a human level, this is a lot, and I'm sure you're having these kinds of conversations all day, every day. So how do you, Liam Wakefield, decompress after holding in your own pain, hearing other people's pain? What are you doing to rid yourself of some of that energy?

SPEAKER_07 32:10

That's a really good question because I've again I'm a workaholic to some degree. Um, and I think everyone around me has been very lovely in voicing how they feel about taking time.

SPEAKER_05 32:24

They've let you know. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_07 32:26

They've let me know. They've let me know. And and I'm so glad that they have because again, it's recognizing patterns, and I recognized in a pattern with myself, is even in doing the good thing, I've turned it into something that's has to be a trajectory. And somebody said a great line to me the other day and they said it's compulsion, not compassion. And it really struck me in thinking, oh my goodness, I am acting out of compulsion, not compassion, when I thought I'm just trying to help people. So yeah, it took it it took a big swing at me, and I had to kind of sit with going, okay, well, how can I decompress? How do I? Because ultimately this does all stack up, and I've had probably the worst bout of health this year in in having a degenerative health condition than I have in all the other years since being diagnosed. And you know, that the big part of that is because I've been working so hard at cultivating what I'm doing that I haven't actually applied time to to find peace and and find some measure of margin within my days. And I think it for me, the things I love the most, I've just spent the most incredible Christmas with my kids and partner and you know and friends, and all of a sudden the stress just dropped, and that that playfulness that you know that this year has been one of the first years I've experienced playfulness to the level of which I never got to as a kid. And it was such a beautiful thing to be able to share time with friends and loved ones and connect on a level that felt so real. And that's because there was time created in there to do that. And it got really busy because work was going really well. And when you as you can imagine for yourself, when you're doing something that then builds up a level of attention as well as um appreciation for your ability to do what you do, it's exciting, and you get so sucked into it that you then just want to do that all the time. But being able to take a step back, like I have recently, and looking at the people I love the most and thinking I want to spend more time with them without having this hat on of this guy who will read lots of books and talk to lots of people, and you know, just being able to put that, like take that off and just be silly and just be you know, just be just calm. And like the kids have been the biggest influence recently, and you know, again, my partner as well, in just going, just have fun. Can you have fun? Still being everything's so serious. And I think just taking a moment to just be playful has been the biggest antidote to pressure that had been building up. And I think that in this kind of environment and this kind of work environment,

Masculinity, Vulnerability, And Risk

SPEAKER_07 35:05

it really can stack up quite quick.

SPEAKER_04 35:08

I love that so much. It's like the moments that I'm with my daughter and she's laughing, you know, like that belly laugh of a kid, it just it reminds you that like pure joy and happiness is possible with you as an adult too. And to like lean into those moments because sometimes and very much like you, I can turn work into a compulsion. And it can be, you know, just it can be something that overtakes my life when in reality it's not the most important thing. And so I love that you said the playfulness because it actually reminds you what is the most important thing, and that's spending time with your family or your friends or your partner. Um, and that coincidentally is the quality of your relationships, which then you know dictate how long we live and how happy we are. So um that was that was as like much as we all know that in our head to actually hear the word playfulness and stop and be, you know, have a lighthearted moment. Um, sometimes it's just a good reminder.

SPEAKER_07 36:16

Yeah. And that we need these reminders. And children are great for giving those reminders. But even if you don't have children and you're not in an environment where you have many people, there is playfulness that can happen in all sorts of things. It's just and we bought roller skates for Christmas, like for all of us. And it's like you we we assign so much to it being child behaviour or childish things to do, but there's only the point in which we limit it as adults because we feel silly doing it. But when we can relinquish embarrassment because we don't want to be seen as being silly and playful, you know, we give ourselves an opportunity to to really tap into parts of ourselves that we've forgotten, you know, or in my case, never got to be. And I think it's a wonderful thing to start tapping into that and thinking, wow, this is this is great. And you it's infectious when you see somebody really enjoying the art the art of play, it's wonderful to see. You know, I know in England we're we're we're we're rife with this absolute abhorrent thing of just being embarrassed for for everything we do. We say sorry, absolutely everything, and we're so stiff in everything that we do. And I think it's so nice to see someone just relax and just be silly. And when you see it, it's magical. And I think uh uh it's something I know next year, well, this coming year is what I really want to lean into is that creativity and that play. And it's like I'm fortunate to have two children that remind me of that every time.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

I love that. I I think it's funny. I actually got my daughter, or excuse me, Santa got my daughter uh rollerblades, and then she and then said, Well, you need to get some. And I'm like, mommy hasn't rollerbladed since um her days in Miami. And then I'm thinking back to like when I used to think I was so badass

Dating, Needs, And Repair After Rupture

SPEAKER_04 38:06

and sexy, like in Miami South Beach, like rollerblading.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

And so I was like, you know what? I'm gonna buy them. I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna wear the elbow pads because I mean, God knows I'm gonna fall. And so we were just gonna set out together, just rollerblading around Chicago, I guess, this summer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:24

Absolutely. That's incredible. And you feel so good for doing it as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

I'll report back, but um definitely need to like put some grease on these, like uh, you know, my knees and stuff. Okay. Um, I like that we had that little kind of reprieve, but this is something that I do think that we need to talk about and something that scares a lot of parents uh and quietly devastates a lot of young boys. And that's the topic of sex tortion. For listeners who might not know what that word means, sextortion is when scammers use fake profiles on social media or gaming platforms to coerce explicit images of said, you know, child and then threaten exposure. Uh, it's terrible. I think I read that um Thorne's 2025 research shows that 20% of teens nowadays have experienced some level of sex torsion. So, what happens psychologically within the human nervous system when shame of that magnitude makes someone feel like they no longer belong? Whether that's a soldier or being a teenage boy, can you help break that down for us?

SPEAKER_07 39:37

Yeah, well, as well, within the human condition, our very existence is predicated on belonging. You know, you when you remove belonging, you you remove everything. This isolation is is an absolute killer. Yes, people can adapt to some degree, but by and large, the majority of us are you know wired to belong and to connect. So when These things happen, whether it's you know being in the military and leaving the military, or whether it is being in an environment where you're ostracized or manipulated or coerced into something that threatens your very existence amongst your peers and amongst others, it is destructive, completely destructive. And I think what it does psychologically is it it first it puts you in a state of threat and then perpetual threat. And what it does then is it it breaks down the need for isolation and almost in in the ways that some sometimes animals disappear to go and die. Something also happens within the psyche that removes itself from association in order to sort of detach and then deconstruct itself, and this is when behaviors become so absent to the norm for the person. You can see it within children, or and I've witnessed this more so within teenagers that when I was at the college that'd been exposed to situations like this, and that was a huge thing you notice is this change in demeanour, and over a very short amount of time, this withdrawal from community and and others, and then ultimately you know the worst obviously that nobody wants to happen, and that is when they end up with nothing and this level of hopelessness. This is that can then lead to suicide. And it's it's a it's a terrifying place to be, and I think whether it is from that level of sexploitation where they're being used and manipulated into an environment in which they're exposing vulnerable parts of themselves, both physically and mentally, emotionally, it's it really is for a younger generation now where so much of their life is online and it is in an environment in which they connect and they can they communicate, and it's it's very hard to not be in an environment like that. So being coerced and pulled and manipulated into something threatening. It's as as you've read out, it's it's shown in the numbers, right? Yeah, this is and it's if the fear is that this doesn't seem to be something that's gonna go away, if not as something that's gonna grow, because more and more of our lives are gonna be tied to an online environment.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

One of the things that you said, um, and I just learned this to be honest with you, you said led to suicide and not the word commit suicide. And I just want everybody listening to understand that we that's not common vernacular anymore. We don't say commit suicide because suicide is not a crime. We use words like what you just said, um, died by suicide or completed suicide, led by suicide, recognizing that it very much is a mental health crisis that led to this tragic incident. So um thank you for teaching us that as well. So for parents listening, I know this is a really just god-awful topic. It's downright terrifying. Um, especially I I have a seven-year-old daughter. I, Liam, you have little ones too. There's panic and anger and fear. Um and it's just kind of like when something like this happens, what are the first things parents should do or can do to let their kids know that they're there for them, that they that, you know, that they are gonna try to help? Like, what do we do as adults in a situation where we don't even understand it fully ourselves?

SPEAKER_07 43:28

Yeah. I think the key thing to remember with all of this is trying to start any kind of intervention way before there's even a problem. And what I mean by that is cultivating an environment where communication is open and accessible because what happens in these environments

Rethinking Red Flags And Fit

SPEAKER_07 43:46

is when there is a detachment, which is a natural thing between parents and children, there is things that happen in that space. You know, ultimately there is an existential crisis within young children turning into teenagers where they're trying to identify who they are and who they are separate from their parents. But it doesn't mean the thread needs to be cut. Ultimately, there are clashes that happen, and quite often what happens in there is the thread gets cut and the children then become teenagers and they isolate and then they find people that can pull them wayward to some degree, and then when things like that happen online and they don't have anybody to turn to, that's when this hopelessness sets in. And it's very hard to regain something when that hopelessness is set in, and that the the passive to active ideation is then the big worrying factor there. To sort of try and preempt a lot of this, it's really trying to establish a connection from a level that they can then express vulnerability when things do get difficult on every level, because ultimately all somebody needs in these moments is somebody to turn to. Because ultimately it's when somebody feels that they haven't got anyone to turn to or they're burdening everyone around them that they then lead to these environments where suicide becomes something that is a plausible option. When somebody can show up for their children in a way that they can hold the weight of their pain and not feel like it's a burden, and they can communicate and they can talk openly about things in a way that's not going to come back or be weaponized on them, or take away their autonomy, is a big one. Is the things that can be

Resources, Thanks, And Where To Find Liam

SPEAKER_07 45:25

a preventative towards you know the decline of of a teenager's or a child's mental health. And it's something I've seen, and I haven't I did I didn't get it right first time with with my own children. I think early on, I'd I'd got it fairly wrong and having to re-established that most recently with my son in saying it's okay, let's talk. And and and I had a groundbreaking moment with him the other day where I had been stressy and I had been cutting communication off, and we've gonna get a sandwich, and I'd stressing him to give me a response to which sandwich he wanted because the queue was getting big and people were watching, and you know, that kind of whole thing, and and it stressed him out, and he went straight into fight-flight and he froze and he didn't know what to pick, so then he chose nothing, and then you know it created something. But cultivating an environment where communication is key, about a few hours later, when we're back home, he came up to me and said, Dad, can you come into the other room? I want to talk to you. And he pulled me into the other room, he said, I just want to tell you how I feel, and you know, you really stressed me out earlier. And you know, it was got me like it gut-punched me, and you know, in a beautiful way, and thinking, wow, he's expressing her in a way that was so genuine and authentic and vulnerable, and you know, it shows that it can be held. And it's not to say I get it right all the time because I did it the other day and I didn't get it right. You know, I I was too quick to respond to something that shut him down and made him feel not heard. And these are the things as parents that people can need to look out for is how often are you closing down a child's need for their space to be held? Because if you push onto them that you haven't got capacity to hold their pain because it's too stressful for you, then they won't come to you. They'll take it internally. And then when they face adversity in their life in in respect to, let's say, you know, this exploitation, they're not going to come to anybody else. Because that is such a level of exposure, they're not going to want to burden that onto anyone. Because let's face it, most parents would say that it's their worst nightmare. And if a child knows that that's their parents' worst nightmare, the last thing they want to do is inflict their worst nightmare onto the parents. So it's creating these environments where we have to be so careful in what we say and how we say it that we don't close off communication between the children and ourselves as parents.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

That's such good advice for like offline parenting. Do you have any practical tips for what parents can do with kids when it comes to online spaces and keeping them safe there?

SPEAKER_07 47:50

Yeah, again, I think it's it's awareness. Creating an environment where they feel that it's taboo or they've got to hide what they're doing. Like sharing a space with a parent, you know, is is the only way that you can be on the same level with them. You know, if you create an us and them identity between an online world, then they'll slip away into their their world where you won't have an idea what's going on. Trying to stay present with their world and what's going on in that world is the only way that you can really stay in touch with that, which is hard because you want to be able to navigate it in a way that you're not helicopter parenting the child online, because that's just going to create a need to break away. So again, there has to come trust. Trust is such an important thing. If you create enough trust within the the child and you create enough connection with what the world that they're in and relatability to that, then they'll want to share openly because it's something that they believe that you you understand. If you create if you create an us and them environment where it's so disconnected, they won't they won't want to share it.

SPEAKER_04 48:56

It's so interesting because um I have a girlfriend and they actually they their family went through some really tough stuff with online and safety and the adolescents, et cetera. So they were told to go by an old school like 2002 computer and put it right in the center of the kitchen island, and the kids could do whatever they wanted online. But essentially what they were doing was creating this like super transparent environment where what they did online, like parents know, and you know, we can trust you to a certain extent. And it's completely shaped the way that these like 11 and 12 year olds think about being online. Now they don't think of it as like they run upstairs and close the door really fast to do, you know, to get onto what I don't know, whatever sites that they're getting onto. It's just like this is me doing my homework online and my mom's, you know, in the kitchen. I love that so much. And it ties into what you're saying, just cultivate just such a normalcy around what it means to communicate with your kids, have a connection with your kids so that if they do run into a circumstance where they need to reach out to you, just like your son, they feel comfortable in doing that because I feel like there's just, I don't know what it is with with the men today. And maybe you can walk us through some of the psychology, but I find that men in particular have a really hard time navigating and communicating their feelings. And do you think that it's because of the this day and age, or talk to me a little bit about the what's going on there?

SPEAKER_07 50:35

Yeah, so when it when it comes to looking at it from the masculine sense, there is a blurred line between strength and an ability to put up with difficult things and also expressing vulnerability. And you see a lot of it online now with quite manicured vulnerability and sort of people expressing certain things, but then there is the complete diametrically opposed, like aggressive nature of somebody that's like you just power through, you just get through things, and it you know, it's stoicism on steroids to such a degree where it brainwashes people because of ultimately, and if you look at it from a say a mythopoetic sense, we look for the higher powers in in the things that we're feeling. So we want, you know, this is why Marvel works well with kids because they're godlike or they're they're superheroes in their strength and their ability to function and do things. And kids want to do that, they want to fly, or they want they want to be invisible, or they want to be able to be strong because they want to avoid the pain that they're gonna feel at some points in life. And I think for young men, they cultivate this need to do that, but they do it in a way that becomes so hyper-aggressive that they lose the softer touches to the human condition, which is Carl Jung called it the anima and the anima, it's the feminine within the masculine and the masculine within the feminine. If we find a balance within ourselves where we can be strong as as young men, and but we can be vulnerable enough to connect, because otherwise you just end up with such a fortitude and strength that becomes a barricade around actually expressing feelings and needs. And I was working with somebody a little while back ago uh who was such a lovely young guy, but he was just so aggressive and unable, felt so unable to open that part of him. And it took a long time for him to start opening up. And he he told me a story once about going on a date, and there was a group of other guys, and he just was, you know, but it was his tension around the up the others that created a situation that had become violent. Um, but his deeper need was he wanted to just make sure she was okay when she was walking back to like where she was getting picked up. But the miscommunication around the whole environment of how he was perceiving other people and how he was perceiving himself actually created an environment that was really vulnerable and dangerous for her, and it was which was the opposite to what he was trying to do.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Sure, because he freaked her out, yeah, yeah, massively.

SPEAKER_07 53:13

And you know, and obviously it could have been even worse, you know, it could have created an even more dangerous situation by it getting physical. Um, and this is this stems a lot from his understanding of himself. He didn't realize that the tension he was holding was creating such a an aggressive demeanor. You know, he he just thought he was being you know kind of mysterious and quiet, but really he was creating a lot of nervous energy that that is felt, and it really is felt. You can tell mile off when somebody is really projecting that nervous energy that becomes unpredictable and dangerous. And I think this is why it's such a need for everybody, but yes, especially young men, to really try and understand themselves, because the level of aggression that can come out in in the ambiguity of understanding oneself can be really quite dangerous. And I think when young men are together and bored, they can become some of the most dangerous creatures on this planet. And I really believe that. Having been in the military and been around a load of young men that are bored, it's not it's a dangerous environment because ultimately people do stupid things and they do things that are just don't warrant the actions that are being portrayed, and it's because there's a lack of self-awareness and there is a need to impress, and that this amplification of one-upmanship and egoic behaviors just becomes really toxic. And it doesn't have to be that way. And I think being able to sit with yourself and really understand how you feel and not try and perform in response to how other people are looking at you can change completely uh this this generation of young men.

SPEAKER_04 54:58

I have a lot of people that listen to this podcast that come on for dating advice or dating stories, et cetera. So for those that are listening, that are dating somebody or talking to somebody that maybe are exhibiting some of the behaviors that you're talking about, the inability to communicate, be vulnerable, hyperaggression, et cetera, are there things that we can do to help make the people that are having a hard time communicating feel more comfortable to communicate?

SPEAKER_07 55:30

Yeah, I think it's cultivating an environment where the expression of needs can be done without heavy judgment. Because for a lot of people in these environments, they don't know how to express needs. And coming from a guy who has been in a situation where I've not known how to express my own needs, that's oftentimes what exists at the bottom of these responses and these reactivities is trying to hold space for someone enough in which they can then figure that out. And you know, and and if when you take it to the question in regards to dating, that might not always be possible. Maybe somebody's not in the position yet where they can and and have the ability to express a need or learn how to express a need in that relationship, but they will over time, and it takes time, and it's not that somebody should be the the training post for somebody's needs expression. It's yeah, it that's not fair on somebody else to have to shoulder that. But that's not to say that that they shouldn't, if they want to withstand a relationship and get to a point that it can become a strong relationship, it can be amazing. However, I think recognizing somebody's ability to express their needs and if that's something that can be held and worked through, then yeah, that can really make a difference. But I think that's the first port call for anything when you look at relationships and dating. Because if somebody can't express their needs, then at some point in that relationship, it's gonna hit a hard time.

SPEAKER_04 56:57

Yeah. For me personally, like I've dated where I've been on dates with men where it's like I tried too hard to um make them feel like they're in a safe space and then suddenly we're in some sort of a therapy session, and I'm like, you know, I'm also like so. There it's a fine line, it's it's a balance for sure. Of um, and I also think it's it's a timing thing. Like people this day and age, they want to move so fast and have instant gratification on everything, but the willingness and to open up to somebody that is just inherently takes a little bit of time with trust and just like the organic, you know, nurturing of a relationship. So um, do you have any thoughts around that as well?

SPEAKER_07 57:44

Yeah, I mean, like as you say, time is such an important factor with this because people can be really performative. I mean, we're all performative to some extent. And I think when it comes to relationships, those earlier months, or the level of performative action that happens in there tends to lead to people quickly connecting and then sharing lives without truly seeing what's beneath the mask for a lot of people. And you get three to six months into a relationship, and the mask starts to slip, and the the reality of the person starts to to come to fruition, and then all of a sudden you're in it. And people do, like you say, they they end up rushing so quickly into relationships to such a degree that then they feel that they can't back out. And there's this, you know, it's um stunk cost fallacy where they've invested so much so quickly, they think, well, I don't want to pull out, I want to make sure I keep investing into this relationship because I think it's got something, at which point there's a danger to that because if they've not truly seen the person that they're doing that to and with, then it it can become so damaging. And I think with the turning of relationships where online dating and the belief that the next one will be the right one, I'll just keep trying. And you I I read somewhere before it was a wonderful thing that you know you can only withstand sort of between three to five serious relationships in a lifetime, you know. So you think if if you're powering through that, the psyche is not gonna manage five, six, three-year relationships into that all of a sudden you're gonna have such an experience that's so fractured that your ability to trust love and trust somebody else is gonna be very hard to work through. I mean, you can everything is possible to work through, but I think when we look at it from this perspective, understanding where we sit with connection and what we can accept in our life, I think it really does require time. And I I'm almost kidding myself for saying X amount of times I've sort of said that it can happen pretty quick, which it can. You know, there are there are again situations where the connection hits on so many levels that. It is amazing, and this is not to say that that the storybook love is is non-existent, because it absolutely can be. But I do believe that timing and connection is is the big point in there with how vulnerable is somebody being. Because is it is it manicured or is it genuine? And are they actually opening up to parts of themselves which they would otherwise hold because they're afraid of it being seen? Because it's in seeing how somebody deals with conflict is the biggest indicator whether or not relationships gonna work. If you and that's not to say you can't have conflict, I think conflict's imperative, but if you have rupture within a relationship and you can't repair it and that keeps happening, then it's gonna chip away and the relationship won't work out. But if somebody can meet conflict and repair through communication, it's a good indicator that whatever you face can get worked on and worked through.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:55

You m you used the word unmasked earlier. Is there a timeline for when one is finally unmasked? What is that time period?

SPEAKER_07 1:01:08

Oh, it's a good question. And it's not gonna give the worst answer for this. No, I don't think there is a set timeline for it. I think there are indicators within, you know, it's hard to hide yourself completely for if you look at the first year with somebody, you have to see them. And actually it's my partner said mum said to her once that you have to see someone through every season to be able to get a good indicator of who they are. And I I think there's truth in that. You know, I'd read in a in a research paper three months of solid contact with somebody will show sides to somebody that that will exhibit behaviors and patterns which can be potentially damaging to relationships. But oftentimes we still won't look, we won't look at that because we don't want to, especially in a period where it's the honeymoon phase and things are great and intimacy is firing and everything is wonderful. The last thing you want to do is look for these indicators that something could be potentially harmful. Because if you're going into it with that mindset as well, that level of apprehension, yeah, it's going to create it. However, I think on the question that you've asked, I think the important thing is recognizing the other person's parts. And I mean this from the sense of how I practice is when we look at parts work, we're looking at specific parts of somebody that show up in certain environments. So when let's say when we argue this is my response to something, I will do this, I'll shut down, or I'll do this. Okay, it's that part of you, where does that originate from? Okay, when I was a child, this happened, and this is why this is created, and that defense mechanism is coming into play in this argument, these types of arguments. Right, okay. Can we sit with this? Can we work through this? Yes. Now that's one mask that can be unmasked and looked at, but we have many. It's not just one overarching mask. This is a many-face being that we can have to work through and we have to decide whether we can love every mask and every every part underneath the mask because it's not just one.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:09

Sometimes the words I feel like mask and red flags can get a little, you know, synonymous. Are there red flags in a relationship that are just absolute non-starters? I think you use the word how people react, or you were describing how people react in an argument. It's so true. Like if you guys can't have a tough conversation, I mean, that is really hard to get over. Are there other things like that that people really need to realize? Wow, this is a red flag that I need to really re-evaluate this relationship.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:44

Yeah, I think you're right as well. Like the the use of terms like red flag nowadays are just such a a go-to in situations that they're not warranted. And I think it's so damaging, it's so damaging. Like, and it it drives me crazy to hear people and they sort of say, Oh, that he's got so many red flags. Like we all do. I haven't met a single human being that isn't littered with red flags. It's just whether or not their red flags matches your red flags and you can work well with them. Because ultimately, yeah, you should bring you should bring out the parts of the person that you love the most, you know, the real darker parts of them. You should be able to bring them out because it's in that love that you have the strength and to work through them. If you exist in a relationship that doesn't have red flags, it means somebody's hiding something about themselves very, very well. Or, you know, the the version of them that you're meeting isn't is not it's not showing the full depth of them. But we all have a red flag, or many flags of different colours. I think it's a load of rubbish to sort of look at it from the sense of that's enough to not be with somebody. That's an internal decision that no one else can say. That's a subjective experience. Somebody else might be able to handle that. I'm I'm I'm I'm adamant there's plenty of people that could not handle or would not want to handle or live with somebody like me. But then there's there's someone that does. And this is it. Like my extent of the things that I've been through is enough for people to say, oh, not for me. Whereas for somebody else, they're like, hey, I love that person. And I think it's important to recognize that it's what you're willing to accept, the love that you're willing to receive. I mean, yes, there are the big things, like if there is generally like real, you know, if there's abuse, if there are things that are danger to somebody's autonomy and agency and their health, you know, if your nervous system is wrecked every day by being with somebody because of what they create within you, yeah, okay, that's a pretty big sign that you're not, you're not in the right space for each other. But whether you know there there is not a determining factor that that person is just outrightly wrong for everybody. And I think when somebody says that you know they've got a red flag, what does that mean they can't date somebody ever because they're that's going to be a problem? Because there'll be someone out there that has a a nervous system that actually connects with them enough to say, hey, that's okay. I can work with this, I can I can hold space for this person while they do their work.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:12

Yeah, it's like a it's like a pink flag to other people, you know?

SPEAKER_07 1:06:16

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:18

Well, I know we are kind of getting at time here, Liam. This was truly an amazing conversation, grounding, challenging. You were so brutally honest. Um, thank you so much. Can you let the listeners know where they can find you and stay connected with your insights?

SPEAKER_07 1:06:40

Yeah, so um, I've got a website, liamjwakefield.com, and uh I'm on social media. Uh not haven't been as active as I'd like to be. I think I've been very busy in private practice this year. Um, so and working on a book, so that's taking up most of my time, but I am looking forward to 2026 as well, trying to get a little bit more active online, hence the podcasts and you know, getting to speak to some amazing people, and uh that is yourself and uh yeah, uh Instagram is probably uh the more active area. So again, it's Lee and J. Wakefield, and uh that's about yeah, for me online.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:15

All right. Well, I will be looking for a signed copy sent my way in 2026. I really appreciate you coming on the show. Um, thank you so much. And just once again, a final reminder to anybody that did listen to this particular episode. If you're in the US and you need support today, you can call or text 988 or contact S A M H S A at 1800-985-5990. I need to reiterate this for everybody. You are not weak. We're struggling, you're a human and you're not alone. We're all here. Um, and we've we've all experienced some level of just really low time. So, Liam, thank you for sharing yours and what's now shaped your career and what you're doing in life. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:03

Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure, and thank you for having me on. It's it's been a really wonderful time to sit and talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

And I love to hear your comments. Follow me on Instagram at Kaylee Nitchie and let me know what you thought of today's episode. Did you know that you can listen and watch Just Lookin' Out? We just launched our YouTube channel at Just Lookin' Out Podcast. And don't worry if you didn't get all of that. You can find all this info in the episode description as well as a link to apply to be a guest. The Just Lookin' Out podcast and content posted by Safe Her Studios LLC and Kaylee Nitchie is presented solely for general information, educational, and entertainment purposes. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from the podcast or related sites or social media is at the user's own risk. It is not intended as a substitute for advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professionals' diagnosis or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical or mental health condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions.