Proptech Pulse: Marilyn Wilson on Tech, Value Creation, and the Future of the MLS

In this episode, you’ll discover how MLSs are evolving beyond basic listings to become essential technology partners for real estate professionals. We sit down with Marilyn Wilson, CEO of The Wave Group and founder of RE Technology, to explore how modern Multiple Listing Services are redefining their value proposition in a shifting landscape. Marilyn shares why the true power of an MLS lies not just in cooperation, but in the robust suite of tools, training, and support that empower agents to build lasting client relationships.

We dive deep into the crucial role of non-dues revenue and why strategic partnerships between MLSs and technology vendors like Lone Wolf are vital for reducing friction in the transaction process. You’ll hear actionable insights on leveraging data integration to streamline operations and why “open MLS” systems might be the key to unlocking more inventory for consumers. Marilyn also unpacks the pitfalls of MLSs trying to build their own tech stacks versus partnering with specialized providers to deliver seamless, efficient solutions.

As a leading voice in real estate technology consulting, Marilyn brings decades of experience helping the entire ecosystem—from brokers to associations—thrive together. With industry changes accelerating, understanding these strategic shifts is critical for any agent or broker looking to stay ahead of the curve. Tune in to keep moving your real estate business forward, and don’t forget to subscribe for more insights on the pulse of proptech.

https://www.lwolf.com/podcast

Transcript

Speaker 1 (Aaron Cardell): From the entrepreneurs desk to the industry front lines and into real world operations. I'm Aaron Cardell joined by Kyle Hunter and Jake Hamilton and we're here to take the pulse of real estate technology in just 20 minutes.

Speaker 2 (Kyle Hunter): Hello everyone and welcome to Prop Tech Pulse podcast. Today I am very excited to have a special guest, Marilyn Wilson. Many of you, most of you probably already know Marilyn, as the CEO of The Wave Group as well as founder of RE Technology. But Marilyn, I'd love for you to do your own introduction, as you can probably do it best.

Speaker 3 (Marilyn Wilson): Sure. So, we, great to see you, Kyle. We are super excited to be here. We at Wave Group really try to help the whole ecosystem work together better and to do things that are going to listen to what ultimate people that bring us the shows, the money people, those real estate consumers, what they need and how to drive that forward. So we work with technology companies like Lone Wolf. We work a lot with the associations and MLSs. We work with a lot of the large brokers. And we work with technology companies and mortgage and title and all of it to try to figure out a way for all of us to thrive and all of us to answer the needs of what those consumers are looking for.

Speaker 2 (Kyle Hunter): Yeah, absolutely. Well, I really love having you. I was actually talking to Victor a little bit earlier today. And I know you guys do just a lot of work in the space. And you cross over into franchisors, brokerages, but also MLSs. And so today, I think we'd really like to focus on the MLS aspect of the business, which again touches all across the board, really everyone in the real estate space. And you know, obviously everyone's aware we don't have to relitigate all of the things that are going on, but lots of changes in that MLS space and the world. And so, love to hear a little bit of your perspective on just some of the things that are that are going on. And maybe you know first off, how are MLSs redefining their value proposition after now compensation being removed as one of the key components of what they provide?

Speaker 3 (Marilyn Wilson): It's a really good question. In fact, we did research last November right after the settlement and we asked people how do you feel about your MLS? Is it more the same or less valuable than it was before the removal? And about 43% said they thought it would be less. Which frankly, I was a little surprised by. I didn't think it'd be that high, but that's pretty significant. And so a lot of what we work with at Wave Group with our MLS clients is to help them understand and to embrace really the power and the amazing things they've already and always done. It was kind of a, okay, we have cooperation and compensation and that's what we do and away we go. When the truth is the daily value that's provided by an MLS really comes from its technology, its training and its support. The and many of them, in fact in our research, in our customer experience index surveys we do across the country with MLSs, we find out that it's about on average an MLS offers 11 technologies. So it's a significant suite. It's not the old days when it was the MLS system and maybe public records. It's a much broader suite. Some of which are things that come from Lone Wolf like transaction management and many other things, right? So we talk to them a lot about first of all, sort of stepping back and remembering all the great things that you do and then figure out ways to take credit for that. In fact, I just drafted a 30-page marketing plan over the weekend for one of those clients talking about how do you do things like we're doing today? How do you do, you know, how do you do podcasts? How do you, how do you take that amazing technology you offer and translate it into Realtor speak? So it's not, "Hey, there's this new product and it's training class 101". It's, "No, no, no. How do I get more leads with it? How do I curate relationships? How do I build lifetime, lifetime client relationships? How do I create a more stress-free transaction, etc., etc., etc.?". So a lot of what we're talking to them about is really stepping back and remembering that and revisiting training, which again, many technology companies provide. And frankly, the days of ChatGPT make it a lot easier to create content for training these days, right? And so thinking about how do you take those most important tools that are available and number one, talk to those that are using it most often which they can get from their companies, right? And find out what they're doing, why they're doing it, how they're doing it, and get it in that practical Realtor speak term, right? So it's not, "Hey, we have this little fancy gadget or this little piece of technology does this". It's like, "Hey, if you are doing this with a client or a prospect, here's how you can use this specific technology more effectively". So that's a lot of what we're talking about is just taking credit, but frankly, better communicating the value of things MLSs have always done.

Speaker 2 (Kyle Hunter): Yeah, and that's, you know, utilization is obviously a hot topic. And a lot of that is, you know, training and using the tools that are provided by the MLS. You know, there's obviously a lot of tools. Like you said, Lone Wolf provides Cloud CMA in a lot of areas. Our transaction management platform, Zip Form, transaction desk. And so those are very important. I was actually lucky enough to attend Camp Totality a couple weeks ago and to your point, there was a couple folks and they were newer vendors that we were just talking with, and they had a question. And it was like, well what's the difference between an MLS and Matrix or Totality? And they almost blended as one. And so a lot of times they see that and the technology is so much of what MLSs provide. That's obviously something that they have to continue to provide to stay ahead of the market. What are, you know, what are the strategic benefits of an MLS technology vendor partnership, you know, beyond maybe just the scale and the pricing considerations and what's cheap? What do you think makes a good partnership between a technology provider and an MLS solution?

Speaker 3 (Marilyn Wilson): Well, I have a lot, I have a big long list for you on that one. The first is to create a communication about what's working and what isn't in the tool itself. Right? So, what are, and again, through our customer experience index we find out we get a lot of open-ended suggestions about whatever they want to talk to us about, right? Whether the MLS wants to hear it or not. So taking those suggestions and creating a partnership back to the technology company, sharing what we're hearing from on-the-ground people that are using it on a daily basis, and then of course the technology company ingesting that and hopefully responding to it by, you know, addressing the kinds of things that actual users are talking about. The second is back to the two things we were talking about earlier. And a technology company should and hopefully knows its product and the value the practical value it creates better than anyone else, right? So how can you arm an MLS? Because like you don't need that, but right now we have 500 MLSs trying to replicate technology communications. That doesn't make any sense for every one. You guys provide a first class, valued, you know, well-developed, well-produced content for training and for marketing and then feed it to them and work with them to distribute it. That to me is one of the most important things is to keep that communication going. Probably the third, and this is just kind of ongoing now, is MLSs are trying to find ways to create, or I should say, eliminate friction points and hurdles within the sales process. And because they touch so many places, and frankly Lone Wolf specifically touches a lot of places along the along the front, you have a chance to help them with that. So working with the MLSs and even helping them create user groups and things to find out where are those friction points, and to the degree you can leverage AI where you can just eliminate pieces that people used to had to do manually, they just don't have to anymore. And then along with that, I would say technology integration and data integration to make sure it passes seamlessly, not only from one technology company to the MLS and vice versa, but wherever possible to connect the dots among multiple technologies that the MLS offers to make it easier for again that taking that friction point out and making it easier for the customer to use not only the technologies offered by one company but for all of them.

Speaker 2 (Kyle Hunter): Yeah, and I think that's a great point. A few years ago, we shifted our, you know, our, our really our rally cry to make it simple. And the whole point of that was to make it easy, remove that friction, work with others, work across the platforms, because that's really what, you know, brokerages and agents want. They, you know, they would rather spend time talking to buyers and sellers, you know, being belly-to-belly, going and doing rather than filling out paperwork or making sure compliance is complete and doing all the things that are necessary but not always, you know, fun. And so as kind of a continuation of that, that is what MLSs also, you know, want to strive and do. So I, you know, so really training and partner with training and evaluation and really help that, you know, make that seamless. You know, so those are two, two good points. Another thing that I wanted to just ask you a little bit about, and you know, part of being at Camp Totality, what I heard coming through as well as MLS Reset earlier in the year and some others was, you know, the concept or the non-dues revenue. And so how, how important would you say non-dues revenue is to, you know, to the MLSs out there?

Speaker 3 (Marilyn Wilson): That's a, that's a, I hate this answer, but that's a it depends question or it depends answer. Some MLSs are very focused on that. Some others do not believe that should be within their purview. They believe they should, you know, everything should be concluded as a part of their subscriber package and they shouldn't ask for more and, and, and things above and beyond. I do think though it's kind of like, I laugh about this, it's kind of like Trolls. You know those dolls? They come back in fashion every few years. I think we're back to non-dues revenue, it's like Trolls, it's back in fashion again. There are definitely MLSs talking more about that, and frankly I almost hear more of from associations talking about it more these days. You know, they're of course losing, not a lot, but they're losing a little bit of membership just because of the nature of what's going on in this market and some people just retire or leave or whatever. So I'm hearing it probably more on that side, but there's always some MLSs that are excited about that, especially when they believe that their end user is also benefiting from the technology, right? So they don't want it to be, okay, well, you, you pay this much for a core subscription, then you pay this much for something that's above and beyond. Sometimes they get a little uncomfortable with that. But if it's something that's valuable to them and it's an enhancement or upgrade and it's, it's going to happen anyway and you can do it as affordably as you can, then many MLSs are looking at that too.

Speaker 2 (Kyle Hunter): Yeah, you know, I, I think MLSs, you know, are very important. And I know there's a lot of fights going on with the, with several of the, the brands and, and obviously, you know, big names with the lawsuits going on in kind of the one side versus the other. But still there's a need, you know, to, to stay relevant. And I think you, you, you hit it right. If the technology makes sense and if there's some ways for an MLS to, you know, have some sort of non-dues revenue or something that is not part of a core offering, be it a revshare or or some sort of of ways. Yeah, I agree. The subscription thing where it's, you know, you have different levels can get a little tricky. And I think it turns people off. There's a, there's a publication that's done some things like that and it's kind of like, wait a second, am I already a subscriber? I got this other level of subscribing. And so, definitely can, you know, understand where you're coming from there. I'm going to pivot a little bit. You know, speaking of additional revenue, a few years back there's, you know, quite kind of a trend I would say with some of the larger MLSs getting into the tech space and forming, you know, almost side companies to invest and to do some things in the various markets. I think some of them, you know, maybe had some levels of success. Others, you know, have, you know, not really had as much success as they thought they would, in case some would say, you know, less than that. What would what's your take on, you know, just where that's going? You know, where we're at today, kind of where where we're at from a few years ago? And do you feel like that's a future where MLSs are are really becoming technology companies? Or, you know, what's your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (Marilyn Wilson): So I kind of see three paths. The first is what I guess I would call a more traditional path where there's a licensing relationship with a technology company. The second is where you kind of, and we become a technology company. And then there's a third piece in the middle, which is we're going to work with.

Speaker 2 (Kyle Hunter): Uhhuh.

Speaker 3 (Marilyn Wilson): Marilyn, we'll let's, let's start over there and Molly can cut this because you froze for a second. So I missed that, the number one. So I, I kind of see technology partnerships in three ways. One is what I would call a more traditional relationship where technology companies license their software, provide training, support, all of that. The second is sort of the other end of the spectrum, which is MLSs wanting to become MLSs and technology companies. And then there's the third piece in the middle, which is where MLSs are partnering and creating sort of custom instances of technology that their own data is housed and controlled in their own, but they're, it's not, they're, they're still not building it, right? And again, it's one of those it depends, right? I think some of the companies that have taken on building their own technology have done well. I'll give you one example like Best of Plus, for example, which is an MLS that's actually building soft MLS software for others. They're I think doing a really good job of that and have scaled it appropriately. But they've also, I think the secret with someone like them is that they're building it first and foremost for their own customers. So they know what MLSs, MLS users want and then they're trying to deploy it to others. Some people were trying to build things from scratch or bought things from scratch. And probably the unfortunately the worst example was Remine where it was purchased for $53 million and there was a whole bunch of money poured in after that. It didn't work for whatever reason. And then it was recently bought back by a technology company for $1.5 million. Right. So that's not a good ROI. The bottom line is being a tech company is not easy. Yeah, it looks, people think, "Oh, being running an MLS, that's no big deal". Guess what? That's not easy. Running a tech company, that's no big deal. Guess what? That's really not easy. Right? So, for me, there are certain people that have unique skill sets or they've already built technology for so long that they're uniquely skilled to do it. But if someone, and I've had MLSs recently say to me, "You know, should we start our own real estate technology company"? And my answer usually is no. Not unless you have lots of money to put into it and the appetite to lose much of it or to stick with it for five, 10, 15, 20 years like quote real technology companies do, right? I would say no. But I do like the model where people are like, for example, Source RE, I don't know if you know those guys, Modern Tech's building it. That's a database that you, you contract with them but all of the data that's housed in it is completely within your realm. So there's places where an MLS can sort of have more, sort of influence or guidance over their technology solutions and they can fuel lots of technology solutions without having to build it from scratch. So I kind of like that model for some things. Again, there's a few that are uniquely qualified to build their own. But I say generally that's probably not where MLSs need to go. They need to focus on value proposition, support which is absolutely number one, and training.

Speaker 2 (Kyle Hunter): Yeah, well and I, you know, certainly I think Remine definitely is one of the bigger ones that that shows up there. Again, there has been successes. But at the end of the day, you know, like you said, technology is, is hard. It's not building it. Can you build something to a certain spot and make it as good as something else? Yeah, possibly. It's going to take a lot of money. But what a lot of, what a lot of, you know, folks that try to go out and do this, and you know, you saw this with franchises also, and it's because, hey, we can get a higher multiple at, you know, as a tech company. But, but a lot of this, you know, when you start building your technology, what you don't realize is as soon as you get done, you're going to have thousands of requests for new features. And great, this is good, but what about this? And then you have to continue to try to keep that up to great. And then you have to support it all. And then you hit that scale level where if, you know, you got to have that break point. Where do you continue on and and and continue to scale or are you just kind of putting it back where it is? So it is very tricky. And, and I think, you know, to your point, partnering and having things that are really close to your niche that you control and that you, you know, that others would, would, would work with. Or partnering with companies that specialize in tech. Like we're not going to go out and become a brokerage. And, and we're not going to become an MLS. And, you know, those are things that, that, you know, Lone Wolf are really going to not focus on doing. Where, where some have. But, you know, we understand that each, each kind of company has their lanes and their focus. And, and tech is kind of what we do. So, we'd rather partner with MLSs and, you know, and and help provide and really have the MLSs craft their needs so that we can help solve those as opposed to, you know, having having it other ways. But, no, I appreciate that. I think we got a couple minutes left. I think really what are your predictions for kind of the future of MLS technology and member member, you know, value creation? Like what do you see in the next, you know, two, three, five years that's going to continue to change how, how we view MLSs?

Speaker 3 (Marilyn Wilson): Well there's a few things that I'm seeing. Some of which are tech but not always, right? So, one of them that we're seeing is a move toward what they're now calling open MLS, right? Which is an MLS that's available to all licensees in the state. In fact, we saw from April to May there were 888,000 agents in April and by May there were 941,000 agents represented by those. So, I think that's going to become pretty ubiquitous. Unfortunately, a lot of it's being motivated by risk mitigation as opposed to proactivity, but it is what it is. And I think it's a good thing for the industry. Allows for more revenue opportunities. Allows consumers to have more listing inventory. And really just a larger collaboration across, which is what we promise anyway. So, I think that's a good thing. The other thing we're seeing a lot of, and I think this does have implications for technology, is there's after the sale of AR Colorado, they're now seeing, Wave Group has a a broker or should say a mergers and acquisitions division. And this is kind of coming to us really. We, we built it for brokerages and now it's coming on the MLS side because there's a lot of people looking to say how much is their MLS worth and are there opportunities for us to buy, to sell, to divest, to a whole bunch of different things that are coming. So that might potentially lead to more consolidation. Which I think is a good thing because the larger MLSs in many cases can afford larger partnerships with companies like Lone Wolf and others and may be able to be able to deepen the types of, you know, solutions that they can offer. The other thing we're seeing which isn't again not necessarily technology but important is, well, two things that again we're directly involved with. One is finding out what your customers really think. Right? You can't do better. You can't offer a better technology suite if you don't know what you have is working or not. So, we're seeing more and more MLSs looking at things like our Customer Experience Index survey and participating in those so they get a baseline understanding. And I can tell you, we worked with one MLS that was a younger, newer, smaller one. They had two these surveys and it just was kind of painful. And they, they, they were like the little engine that could. They kept grinding and grinding and grinding and you know, getting better training, getting better support, doing all the things that you do. And then their third year their numbers just exploded. So it's really exciting to see. I love it when people really listen to their customer. Do what they ask for. And then you know technology is a big part of that. Support and training is a big part. So that's another big thing. And then the fourth, I would say is strategic planning is getting to be more strategic. Looking at technology partnerships, looking at what really matters to customers, looking what really drives their interest and their support of their MLS. And then building, you know, the, the way a technology company does. Like build a technology or a strap plan like an agile sprint just like technology companies do. So build in quarterly goals, quarterly executables, come back and measure those. And one ask I will have of of Lone Wolf and all tech companies that might be watching this is we really need your help to provide better analytics so that an MLS can really understand what's happening, right? How many people are using it? What company are they from? How are they using it? How often are they using it? And what part of the sales process are they using it? Are they top producers or or brand newbies? The whole spectrum, right? So, that information will help all MLSs get better and make all technology companies, I think, respond more effectively to what customers are looking for.

Speaker 2 (Kyle Hunter): Yeah, well, Marilyn, that was great. I really appreciate all the insight today. And yeah, thank you for joining the pod.

Speaker 3 (Marilyn Wilson): Absolutely, my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (Aaron Cardell): That's our pulse for today. Keep innovating, keep implementing, and keep moving real estate forward.

Sources:

• Marilyn Wilson_v1.mp4