Ep 62 - Erwin Porter - How A Local Author Captured Southeast Missouri High School Hoops

Bootheel basketball has a reputation across Missouri for a reason, and we wanted to get the story behind that reputation from someone who’s been determined to preserve it. We’re joined by Erwin Porter, local author and basketball historian, to talk about his book Bootheel Basketball: A Half Century of Hoops Supremacy and what it takes to document the programs, coaches, players, and seasons that built southeast Missouri high school basketball into a lasting tradition.

We get into the choices every historian has to make: where the Bootheel “line in the sand” really belongs, which schools and conferences fit the culture, and why trying to cover all of southeast Missouri would turn one readable book into an encyclopedia. Erwin walks us through the research process, the people who helped, and what he learned by sitting down with legendary 500-win coaches who can still recall specific nights, matchups, and heartbreak losses like they happened yesterday.

From there, we talk style of play and why “Bootheel basketball” is recognized statewide: conditioning, tempo, tenacious defense, and a physical edge that can change how games are officiated once you get deeper into state play. We also chase a few fun rabbits on playoff formats, travel, and the shot clock, then come back to the bigger point: high school basketball is still one of the best ways to unify a town.

Erwin also previews his next book, focused on notable players and what happens after the final buzzer, because the real win is using the lessons of the game to build a life. If you care about Sikeston Bulldogs pride, southeast Missouri sports history, and the stories that made these gyms special, hit play, subscribe, leave a review, and share the show with someone who grew up on Bootheel basketball.

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Transcript

Welcome To The Dog House

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Alright, Bulldog Nation, it's time to get in the doghouse. This is where Sykes and Pride lives, where we tell the stories that make this town special. From the legends of the past to the faces shaping our future. Whether it's basketball, community, or just that good old Bulldog grit, we've got you covered. You're listening to the Dog House, the voice of Sykston. What is up, Bulldog Nation? Coming to you today with episode 62, season two, episode 20, and we have a special guest today. He'll be on right after the break, but Mr. Erwin Porter will be here. He's a local author, basketball historian, a little bit of everything. He works the camera for Acorp Sports, and he does he's retired, and so he he does probably now, I guess, just about whatever he wants. I'm telling you the life of Riley, as they would say. You are Micah Harris. I'm Matt Tanner. Thanks for listening. We're excited to bring you this episode today, and we look forward to getting into that just a little bit later as we uh as we like to say, pay some bills. Shout out to Mercy Phoenix, uh, one of our illustrious partners, Jody Cheney, Tucker Cheney, and their family, they're providing healthcare staffing solutions all across this area and possibly even a little closer. And if you're looking for something that meets those needs, where they can provide some healthcare staffing solutions for you, or if you are looking to looking for replacing income or to pick up more income, or whatever they are the guys to talk to, if that is your expertise, mercyphoenix.com, or you can find them on their Facebook page, Mercy Phoenix M-E-R-C-I, and then Phoenix is P-H-O-E-N-I-X. We're very proud to be partnered with them and proud of what they do and what they do for our community and what they stand for is aligns very closely with what we do. Also, want to give a shout out to Greengrass guys. By the way, Mike, when we were at the baseball game, they did the baseball field. How good did that look? Oh my goodness, it looked awesome. Looks like look like a professional field. Emerald, Emerald Turf. And it's just just beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

It was it was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Yep. Yeah. And they're that's just part of what they do. Of course, they do fields and they do our football field and the soccer field too. It looks terrific, but they also do residential care as well. They could take care of your turf management needs at your house or your business. And uh D Bizzle, David Bizzle are the guys to call. They are the experts in this area, and they will make your yard look so good you have to mow it two or three times a week.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

I was I was just on the radio coming in, uh, some home improvement radio show or whatever was on there, and it they were just talking about how that people have to paint their yards in like certain parts of the country, like California and probably for water. Yeah, well, yeah, and they I guess they were talking about sprinkler systems, but it was we don't have to do that around here.

Introducing Author Erwin Porter

SPEAKER_03 3:09

No, no, no, we don't, fortunately. But again, we're very proud of uh our partnership with them and who they are and what they represent and what they believe in and the things they do for our community. Again, we we couldn't we couldn't be prouder to be involved with them as well. Get our shout-outs, shout out to Luke. We'll have our video and audio things up here in just a little bit on our next next part of the podcast. Shout out to Aaron. She got so tired of us, Micah. She just left and went with her girlfriend over to Kentucky or to Paducah. So probably a good day to do that. It's a beautiful day to do that. That's right. Shout out to Justin, my brother, Micah's brother-in-law, our general counsel and ex-IT guru. We used to talk to him every now and then. Yeah, he still provides us a little bit of a little bit of help, but we've Tucker Cheney, the aforementioned Tucker Cheney, is kind of I don't know if he's accepted that role or if it's just something that I've thrust about. Yeah, I've just bestowed it upon Tucker and so uh maybe reluctantly accepted it. I appreciate all his help with our video editing and things like that as well. And finally, or excuse me, not finally, but Derek James, Brian James for a lot of their background history, stats, stories, and kind of those things that they provide to us that help us make this podcast what it is. And certainly to Tyler Anderson, Twisted Arrow Woodworking for our sign on the wall, made some cool swag for us, and we're very appreciative of that. Again, like and follow and share the doghouse on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. Give us a share, give us a shout out, a like, a mention, a review, kind of all those things. Those things help us and help us keep going. You can catch this podcast on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, and even our embedded player on our website, the doghouse.buzzsprout.com. And if you need to email us, you can email us at doghouse.sy stin at gmail.com. And if you're interested in partnering with us, give us a shout. We'd love to we'd love to talk to you. Hit us up for some of our swag. And uh, Mike, I forgot something last week and I wanted to mention there were so many former bulldogs in Como that I I went I went right past that, but I want to run down a list real quick and shout out to those guys for showing up. Dontrez Williams, Parker Long, JT Jones, Chris Appleton, Julian Beard, Creighton Sarakis, Carson Beard, Coach Chris Sorakis was there as well. Uh Garrett Taylor. Garrett's a not a Hollyfield guy, but he was before, but he was a 95 grad, but he was he was on a Final Four team as well. Trey Sadler, Lontez McClinton Jr., Clark Stewart, Nick Harrison, Zach Harrison, Kevin Jones, Peyton Howard, Tristan Wiggins, Chris Artis, and Gage Rowling. And I apologize if I saw some more and didn't get you added to my list, but I just wanted to give you a shout out. Shout out to those guys for uh showing up, supporting their young dogs as we call them. And we are we're proud to see those guys and and the the passion and the the love that they have for their for their past and for their team and their town. And some of those guys traveled some pretty good distances to be there. Uh Parker Long and his family, you know, his family came from Alabama to show up. Parker was in Rolla, but he you know it's still several hours to drive, and it was good to see him. So thank those guys. Appreciate y'all for showing up and uh hang right with us. We'll be right back with our guest. Hey, thanks for sticking with us after the break. Knowing the, as we say, the modern or excuse me, the with with technology, it's it's only just a second or so, but it's been just a few minutes for us around here, but we're we've already started the conversation. Yeah, oh yeah, heck yeah. We've had to shut it down and uh come downstairs so we can save some of the conversation for with our guest. And without further ado, Micah, I'm going to introduce our guest. Today we're joined by a man who's done something every great sports town needs someone to do preserve the history before it fades. Our guest is Erwin Porter, author of Boot Hill Basketball, A Half Century of Hoop Supremacy, the 2021 book that captures the stories, the programs, the legends, and the pride that have made that has made Boot Hill basketball such a powerful part of Southeast Missouri sports culture. Erwin didn't just write about scores and championships, he helped document a way of life for towns where basketball has always meant something deeper. And now he's back at it again, working on a second book and continuing to tell the stories that deserve to be remembered. We're excited to talk with him today about the first book, the history behind it, and what's next. Erwin Porter.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Welcome to the Doghouse.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Welcome to the Doghouse.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Hey, good to be here, Matt. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's it's a it's our pleasure to have you. Erwin and I have known each other for a while, and we were I I would I I played a a small part in your first book, not developing it, but helping roll it out and very proud to be able to do that. And your son Chris helped you with that book as well. And I think he you've mentioned his name in the book or on the book title what he was wrong.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

On the uh title. Yeah. He kind of, yeah, Chris helped a whole bunch on the behind-the-scenes stuff, you know, uh computers and all that stuff that I don't know a whole bunch about. Being from my error, you know. But he was a real big help, and uh so I uh felt obligated to put him on the cover.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

So uh Otherwise he said, Dad, I'm not helping next time.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah, I said that way I can get his help again if I need it.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

So uh anyway, so I it's real funny how that worked. I talked to my publisher and I said, I want to include Chris maybe as a co-author. He said, Well, lots of times, you know, you'll do uh Irwin Porter with Chris Porter. I said, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

So that's what we did. Yeah. And I was glad I did it because he deserved it. He'd done a lot of work.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Right, right. Well, and of course, to further the relationship, Chris and my wife, Erin, went to school together. They've known each other Chippy, as we should say. He goes by Chippy, and everybody knows Chippy. Chippy, yeah. And so Aaron, Aaron and Chippy uh know each other, and that's kind of kind of how that all started as well. But we're very excited to have you on here and your again, your your book. Where where can where can we get your book? It's still available.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Yeah, it's still available. The Barnes and Noble has it. They've had it from the very beginning. They do well, they sell one just every so often. My publisher, Acclaimed Press, has it. I keep a supply to I like to uh meet people personally and be able to kind of chat basketball and sign it for them. So that's an honor for me to do that. Yeah. So I like to do that myself. I keep them. I can be contacted on uh Messenger on Facebook and I mean And we've still got some at the bank, too. Y'all and the bank still should have some. And while we're talking about the bank, yeah, Matt, the uh first day community bank sponsored my first book launch event, which was a big deal because part of my uh responsibility was to find a sponsor, and that was gracious enough and the bank to uh sponsor it. And uh we had it at the Syston Field House and it went real well, and they still have some books left at the bank that are signed. I signed them all, the ones we had left. Uh-huh. So you could go by the uh first aid community bank here in Syston to get one. Yeah. And so they're available and we still sell 'em. It's still uh a lot of people still don't know about it. Yeah. Which is a good thing for me. That means there's a market for it.

Where To Buy The Book

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Sure. That's right. That's what that's part of what we want to do that yeah, we talked about before. This is we're here to promote positive stories. Yeah. And uh as we say, a rising tide lifts all boats, right? That's exactly right. And that's what we want to do, to be, to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Perfect. Right? Yeah. And we and we love that. So when you're we're gonna go back a few years, of course, this came out in 2021. Actually, I was sitting here, I was thinking about this the other day. As a matter of fact, when I was doing some research and and finding some of your information and stuff like that, I found the article that the paper did, uh-huh, and I had forgotten it a little bit, but the first launch we had got postponed. Do you remember? COVID. Well, partially COVID, but mainly uh ice because it was in ice.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Winter weather. It was like an ice snow event. Then it got real cold, like I don't know, single digit. It wasn't gonna thaw out.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

And we kept debating on what to do, and right at the last minute we said we just can't have it. Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

It was just uh just too too bad in the world.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Field house wasn't available again until April, so we had to wait two months, and we wanted to have it at the field house. We didn't want to change the venue. Yep. So we kind of had to kind of put things on pause and then kind of start back again, get people motivated again. So it kind of caused an issue to a degree. A little bit.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

But we still it it's I felt like it was a really good book launch.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

We did good, yes. Yeah, I felt like it was a real good book launch. And so and we'll have another one and we might talk about that a little bit later in my second book. Yeah. Great. So yes, so I'm real proud of the book.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

What what kind of got you you're uh you're a new madrid guy. Yeah I mean and you go to school there? I did. Okay. So you're lifelong that area, and that's where Chippy went and Aaron went and all that stuff. So what what kind of got you in the mode to write a book? I mean, have you written this is your first one?

Why He Started Writing

SPEAKER_02 12:32

This is my first one. Well, what happened was of course I've kept up with basketball my whole life. I became an avid fan in the late 60s as a young kid. And then so as I went through my life following high school basketball and keeping up with everything, and then I got to retirement, I moved to Cape From New Madrid in the summer of 17. I had some idle time and I got to thinking, I said, you know, uh, I know quite a bit about high school basketball. We've got great, rich history. Yeah. I said, we need a book, a document, at least some of this. I know there's a ton of it, you know. And so I started kind of thinking, I was jot down stuff that I thought would be good as a book, kind of looking at it as a fan, you know, what would I like to see as a fan in a book? And I started joting down different stuff. And when I did, I said, you know, this this stuff is attainable. You know, the stuff that I would like to have in a book, I can find it. You know, it'll just take time and patience. And I said, I've got more time and a decent amount of patience.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

I was just gonna say, patience, patience doesn't run well with the.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

I was gonna say I was gonna say what was probably the toughest part together for you writing the book. I know it. So here's a good part of the story.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

So when I come up, I said, you know what, I'm gonna just search now for a publisher somewhere close. So I Googled local publishers and I seen Acclaim Press. I called them, and then they set up a meeting, and then they I knew that this would be a perfect fit. So when I told the acclaim press about my ideas, they liked it, so they told me to go to work on it, you know, get all the stuff you can. Then when you get enough content for a book, get back with us and we'll see. We'll go from there. So that's what I did. That was the fall of about 18.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

I was just gonna say, did it take you three years?

SPEAKER_02 14:20

It took about two and a half years, because I started with the idea in the fall of uh 18. Wow. I don't know, probably September, October. And I finally got a meeting with the publisher, Doug Sykes, for Acclaimed Press, and I showed them my ideas, and he agreed that they would be willing to publish the book. And so I went to work on it. So then I worked for about a year, and so I'm starting new with this. You know, I've got to get I've got to get contacts, I've got to contact people. I knew I wanted a book about Boot Hill, the Boot Hill era, you know, what we call Boot Hill basketball. I knew that. I knew that consisted of just a certain amount of schools, not Southeast Missouri. Right. Because we have that debate all the time with social media. Yeah.

Defining Bootheel Basketball Boundaries

SPEAKER_03 15:03

I was just I was just gonna that was one of the things I want to talk about, and and and we and we can get to that. What's your what's your geographic region? Yeah, it is it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

So anyway, so I had it, I really had it to cover Southeast Missouri at first. And my publisher said that might be a little bit too much because for readers' perspective. Because sometimes you get too much in a book and it just is not as good as, you know, people lose their attention or whatever. So we scaled it back to five conferences, which is the extreme Southeast Missouri, which is the Boolean area, what we call it. Okay. So once that happened, that was a blessing because uh once I got into the work, I said, man, if I would have done the whole South of Missouri, a lot of the schools outside our area I didn't know a lot about anyway. Right. So it wasn't gonna be feasible to do a book because I didn't know that much about it. This book was gonna be about what I experienced, what I knew, kind of my account of being a lifetime avid fan. So kind of what this book came from.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

As author, that's your prerogative.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

I was gonna use prerogative with Yeah, so that's kind of how it evolved. Once I just d determined what schools I was gonna include, and so the five conferences included 40 schools. Okay. So that's what you know we we focused on.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

So uh uh geographical area, is that roughly Jackson? Did did that include Jackson?

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Jackson being the member of Singh Old Conference. Okay, yeah. So really I tell people kind of the uh from Jackson, the highway 25 quarters, that's from like on down to Dexter and on down, and everything this way. Okay. And then Popper Bluff was included because they're a member of the Sing Old Conference. Okay. They a lot of their schedule is down in here. That's right. And that's why I skipped, you know, like let's just say, for instance, Twin River, some of those schools were not included, because they play Ashley in the Ozark foothills, even though they do play some of our schools, but so we we called it Boot Hill basketball. Yeah. And we included the 40 schools from the Seam Old Conference, the starter, the Scott Mississippi, the Boot Hill, and the Tri-County.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Yeah. Okay. That's the five conferences. Yeah. Okay. Uh huh. Well, I mean I mean, heck, you could then start trying to at some point you gotta draw a line in the sand. I mean, do you go to Donovan? Do you go to Nealyville? I mean, where do you Greenville? I mean, what do you pick up? Carter who? East Carter East Carter. Do you pick up Mark Kwan? Now, geographically, they're in Southeast Missouri. Yes. If you look at a map of Missouri, that would be southeast. Probably I mean, Van Buren, you know, you could you could make a case for that, but at some point you got to say, okay, this is where what we call boot heel basketball. And I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

You're exactly right. That's kind of how we finally decided to do. And I explained to people a lot, respectfully, that this is kind of how we did this, just like you explained, we kind of had to draw a line in the sand. And so we was okay with it. Once I explained that, they understand. We're saying we're not trying to slight anybody or you know, say that you're and like we talked before, the debate on Boot Hill or Southeast Missouri, lots of times on social media I'll explain that and say, here's, you know, geographically, you know, you're in Southeast Missouri, like Bunker, for instance. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

I saw that the other day.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

If you're not in the boot hill, what we call the boot hill. Another short story about the boot hill, so you probably heard it, Matt. If if you go to the state tournament, but they refer to our style of basketball as boot hill basketball. Have you heard that? Oh, yeah. So that's kind of a term that's in the basketball world that's throughout the state. They know, so I thought a perfect uh title would be Boot Hill basketball. Yeah. Ah, I didn't know that. That's what we're talking about, you know. Yeah. So that's kind of what uh how we come about with that.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Because it always seems like South Iron pops in there somewhere. South Iron. People say South Iron, and like, well, it's in Southeast Missouri geographically, but that's not what we call boot hill basketball. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Sometimes I use the term boot hill area. Yeah. You know, so it it all is kind of the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Yeah, I guess technically, like Sykston. Charleston's probably not technically in the Boot Hill of Missouri.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

And I've talked about that too. I said, well, the Boot Hill is actually you draw a line from the over around Baldon where the estate is straight, then it and draw a line over, it's just Charleston Sykeston, just kind of right up, you know. Right. But we call this the Boot Hill area. Yes. And you have like businesses up around the Cape area that are are called Boot Hill, fencing or something like that. Right. So we're, you know, we're we're right in line with uh the what the way we're thinking about this. That's exactly right. We think we are.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

That's exactly right. And I it makes perfect sense. I mean, like of the teams. I mean, you could have six, seven hundred schools, really, if you Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

You'd you'd produce an encyclopedia. I know it. So anyway, so once we we scaled it back, I said, really, those are the schools I really know quite a bit about. So I don't have to that way it this book is about what I know and I experience the way I look at it. Right. You know, my opinion on stuff. Sure. And that's all. Right. That's all it is. And mainly for just to document our rich history like you talked before. Yeah. And and I was I thought, you know, I've got the time. Uh, you know, I I'd at least know about what I need to try to find to get in the book.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

So uh so so you talked about like what you know. What is something about doing the book that you that you learned?

SPEAKER_02 21:06

That's it all. That's a good question because you learn something every day, you know. So uh probably this second book, and we'll talk about that, I've learned even more. So the first book was, you know, of course, it's got every Allstate candidate listed from those fifty-three years, anybody that's ever been named All-state. So I didn't really go deep into the players part, I just recognized them as Allstate players. Yeah. And then we talked about teams, just teams' general successes with their history. Then of course we got their records in there, looking back as far as the beginning, which I like that part. I go to that still yet today to find out who coached them in 1945 or something like that. Right. We'll get into the conversation. So getting back to what you was asking, I learned a lot of I didn't really learn a whole much about the players as far as, you know, you know, some players I didn't really know about what I'm trying to say. But I did learn that we do definitely have a rich basketball tradition. You know I knew that, but then once I got in the book and and started seeing the state championships and seeing our final fours and all that, and I said, this book here, I mean, you know, we claim to be the best in the state, and every area does. Right. But you know, we and we're gonna do that, we're gonna continue to do that because of uh in ratio of our population. Yep. We've got and the book talks about it our number of state championships versus a numbers awarded like in those fifty three years from sixty eight through two thousand twenty. We won like 56 state championships out of like 225 that was awarded. Wow. And that's a pretty dang good percentage for a small area of the state. Yes. So, you know. Agreed. Of course, Scott County Central and Charleston contribute quite a bit, but still yet it doesn't matter. There are being still killed. Notre Dames and Capes. And I could go through each decade and almost tell you who won state championships when they did. And I guess I still need to be thankful. We've talked about getting older, you know, their prior conversation and memory and all that. So I still have it, so I hope I can continue to have it for a while. That's right. Well, you you're using it. And I'm using it. So another good thing about doing the book, you know, I'm retired and it gives me something, uh a purpose. Exactly. And it's something that I love. I love high school basketball. I like recognizing players. Yep. And so this book here, I was proud of it. It ended up the way I wanted it to be. You know, I said, this is exactly what I envisioned, you know. So so it's been a good thing, you know. That's great. Yeah. Now how how did you choose like what what year you were going to start and where you I mean, obviously you're going to end up. Another perfect question. And people ask me that all the time. 1968, I was a young kid. So I we started kind of keeping up with high school basketball. Down in New Matter, of course, we got the uh daily democrat Standard Democrat, and and I would always look in the uh go get the sports page and look at it. And so I had an interest in high school basketball at a pretty early age. The Matthews Pirates, you know, won a state championship in 68, Class M. So we got to following them pretty hot and heavy. And that's what kind of kind of propelled me to be a lifetime fan. I said, man, high school basketball is great. And so so the book I said, I'm just gonna start with the 67-68 season that I remember first keeping up with. And I said, so and we'll we'll get the most recent season. And so 20 was the most recent. When I got towards the end of my book, we was able to include the 19 2019-20 season. So that made that 53-year-old.

Research Sources And Coaching Legends

SPEAKER_03 24:37

You basically got the the last full season. Well, yeah. Well the 2020 ended in Well, the like that year I recall New Mat or excuse me, Notre Dame made it to they won district and they made it to the final four. Yeah, and it got canceled or something, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:56

What was Class three class three happened, but the four, five, and six got canceled in that. That's what it was. That's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Yes. Uh-huh. Because my niece was on uh one of the girls' teams. That's right. Yeah. So you're exactly right. So uh that's how it ended up being from 68 through 2020. And so this book is really focusing more on just my experiences, you know, what I witness and kind of my account. And I thought that was kind of unique because it's just about what's going on. What I experienced.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Sure. W when you did it, the the research part, who who did you have to get help from for that? Okay, another great thing. Not people necessarily, but not individuals, but what like fans were they involved in that too?

The Era That Dominated

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Fans. And I've reached out to like coaches and I would get with athletic dressers, just anybody and everybody. And then I also do that Jane B. Hall patrols. He's re he's been in Nashville for a few years. I knew he had a lot of information. I recall that article in the now. And then he was uh associated with uh Al Jackson down at Haytime, and I knew he had a bunch of stuff. I knew of that well, so Jamie said I could use some of his stuff, research stuff, to kind of make my book out of. And then so he said that uh both him and Al too, but uh I f I was going to get in uh in touch with Al Jackson, and he had just passed away that year. Oh, but I still I ended up uh Jamie helped me a whole bunch, gave me access to his and Al Jackson stuff that they compiled for years, mainly Al Jackson. Uh the team histories and all that, their records, stuff like that. Right. So then I kind of wrote my book off of that information, kind of, you know, I could tell what these teams did when in different parts of their career uh their history that they they uh had some success. So my mainly that helped me a lot. Uh that's what you do when you do a research book. You just find information, you feed off of it, get permission, use it, go with it. So that's kind of how I did it. It took a little while to get started, and once I kind of got rolling, I was okay. Yeah. And it it so a year after compiling myself, I took it back to Otanya Press. We had a meeting with the staff, they liked it, and the very next day uh Mr. Sice called me and wanted to uh sign a contract. Oh, nice. So that was really exciting. I said, Hey, yeah, you know so he came up to Cape and we signed a contract. He assigned me to an editor, and I worked with them for about another year or so to kind of like fine-tune it everything, adding what we need, you know, and uh we finally got it to uh to send to be printed, and then so it really took two years and I'm gonna say almost a half, really two and a half years before we came out. So I just tell people two and a half years. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Was was there during your research, was there a decade or an era that you thought, man, as special as this has been for this 53 or plus years, was there something that really stood out? You're like, man, that time was everybody was really good or whatever. Yeah. Something like that. Probably all through the 80s.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Okay. Because you got Charleston, you got Scott County Central, and then Cape Central won a state championship in 80. That's right. North Pembot maybe in 81. I think these are schools that kind of chipped in one in between, all these others. Hayti, I think, in eighty-three. Baldon took one in eighty-five. I just want to say Maldon had one. And then you have uh Charleston won probably six or seven through the eighties. Who else do we have? Uh Scott County Central won, I don't have many. They were starting to stack them up in the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

They were all big.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

And the girls won a bunch of them too in the 80s, but as far as the 80s would have to be the standout decade.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

No doubt.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Yeah. Yeah, because that yeah during the quarterfinal game, and I didn't know this, during the quarter when Sykeson played this year at the quarterfinals and played Viani, two guys on Acorp Sports, talking about like number of district titles and things like that. And do you recall what was that stat we went over? Were you talking about the top ten? Yeah, top ten district titles. Was that uh was Scott County? No. Is it Charleston was one? Charleston was one. Charleston was one, like Vishon was two or something like that. Scott County Central was three, I think. Three.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Vashaun was up there. Vishon was the same.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Yeah, Vishon was up there somewhere. Sykeston was nine or ten.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Ten, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 29:34

I think it was ten.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

This this is statewide, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Yes. Yes. And we got so we got three, three or maybe four teams in the top ten of district titles around the state.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

That's it. And that shows like consistency and then uh, you know. Yes. And and uh so yeah, so that the 80s would be it would stick out, no doubt. Yeah. If somebody had asked, you know. And then you start getting in the 90s, you know. And of course, in the early 90s, Fred John Fred Johnson had awful good. They went to the final four. They were good for uh several years through that period. New Madrid was good during that time. New Madrid Charleston back and forth.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Yeah, they was back and forth. Dexter was fairly good now. Dexter in the late early 2000s because you had they had a great team, Dexter did. Well, they ran into a buzzsaw every year with New Madrid. Probably if it wasn't for New Madrid County Central, they would have been state champ, too, for correct times. You know, everybody knew that. So then you get into that era, and then you then you start getting into Tyler and Ben in 05 and 06 or 04 and 05, back-to-back state championships. And then you get on up into the late, then Syston starts, you know, making their runs more with what was it, Mad Michael Porter and some of that function. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

The Porters and all that.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

And then Scott County Central got back on track again with Otto Jr. and all of them. Then even when he left, they still won a couple, three more state championships. So they had another run through the uh Bell City got good in the Bell City, had a couple in the uh like 02 and 04 or something like that. Right. Who knows who else. And then you get on up into the what do you call it? Well, Notre Dame won one in 2008. Notre Dame won the 08, Paul Hale. You're right. Yeah. And then so we just, you know, we've had pretty consistency.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Orin got pretty good there for the city.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Orange won one in 17, you know. And then, of course, the first one after my book, uh first book, uh 21, Campbell got them one. Yes, they did. First time they ever won a district tournament and they won state. That's crazy. Oh my. Yeah, they went at the state.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Now who was coaching then?

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Steve. Uh Steve Fowler was, and he went to Malden this year. He's uh I I didn't know this, but he he played at Malden. He did. I didn't know that until I reached out to him to to get my second book. Yep. And I said, Steve, I didn't have any idea you played at Malden. Yeah. Good player, from what I understand. Yeah. Uh-huh. Really good player. So yeah, I mean, there's tons of, you know, we can go on and on and on.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Yeah, so is that the so since 21, is that the only state title that's Okay, so now uh Charleston got one in 22.

What Makes The Style Different

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Yeah. New Madrid County Central 23 and 4. 24, there we go. Okay. And I think that might be it. We've added four more. Am I missing somebody? I don't think so. Uh Campbell in 21, Charleston and 22, New Madrid County in 22. Oh, wait. They got theirs in 23, 24. I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right. Charleston and 23 and Campbell in 21.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Yeah. So we're now we're at about 60. Wow. You know, out of that, out of about 235 awarded, something like that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Is that not crazy? Pretty good. Pretty good. And there's uh of course the the debate goes on every year between uh private and public schools. We don't have to get into that. Yes. That's I know what. That's it's it's something that comes up every year. Yeah, every year. Somebody will talk about it and want to discuss it. Yes. What is it about the style of basketball here that makes it different? What do you what do you think sets us apart? What do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Uh I think probably number uh real important is the conditioning. Seem like, you know, we we understand that we're gonna play an up-tempo style game. Now, a lot of your good teams can play either way, you know. But it's more about like just I I say like the tenacious defense. You're just real aggressive defensively, and that sets us apart. I think that might be the number one, maybe, man. I don't know. I would think defense is a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

That's what I I I think the up and down and the defense turns.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

You hear that all the time. Yes. So that's uh something these other teams are not used to, and you know, and then that part of it and the physicality, we're physical. You know, we seem to play a physical style because sometimes we get on up into the state play and then you know the officials might not allow and and I can see that, you know. Because a lot of times I will see games down here and I say, man, they're they're they're banging, you know. And sometimes some of the old timers say, Man, that'd been a foul back in our days, you know. And so, yeah, so I can understand maybe getting over into another part of the state where they don't they don't officiate that style. And then uh where we can get by with it down here, because that's it's kind of even we're all it's kind of an even playing field. That's how we all play. Right. Would you agree, Matt? No, I totally agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

No, I we've we say that a lot.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

I think officials are and I never have been the kind that I'm real easy, I'm real easy on officials. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

And uh it's not their fault. That's they're just used to officially.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Yeah, we're not we're not trying to say they're cheating us or something like that. You know, Lord. I want people to know that, you know. Yeah. No, not at all. So yeah, that's what I see. That's a difference. Probably we all agree, defense, you know, we've got just tenacious, physical.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

And we, you know, we're not gonna be able to do that. I'm just thinking about some of the like I'm I'm thinking actually in '92 when Charleston won state. I think the score was 42 to 19. And I and I believe that I think farmer had 21 and Eldon had 19.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

And I remember that it being Eldon and I thought 19 points in the state championship.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Just clamped down on them. I thought that's what I'm saying. That that right there says Southeast Missouri basketball. I know it. Agreed. I mean, but you gotta think about who was on that team, though. I mean, like that was pretty that was Carlos Corey. I mean there's some squads in there. For sure. Some players. I think maybe Carlos Corey. There was I forget Tim Fraser was another one. It was a just lockdown defense. They've had a ton of them, you know. By matter of fact, I think that team actually no, it was ninety ninety three to ninety-four, I think. The one that played Vashon and held Vashon to like six points at halftime or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Jeez. I remember they come down to Charleston, didn't they? Mm-hmm. And they just pretty well put the clams on Vashan. When I saw that too, I thought, how the heck can you do that to a team?

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Cory Corey talks about it. I've seen a couple of videos of him talking about that. I know.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

About that game. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

So defense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Yeah. I like it. So your your book, you talked, you had there were I'm looking here at my notes. Eight, five hundred win coaches. Yeah. How special was that?

SPEAKER_02 36:09

It was real special. And I tell people that the good part about that, I was able to and so what I did, I I made up some fun questions, you know, and to ask them. And then so I was able to meet with all of them, which to me was an honor. Here I am, a lifetime basketball fan. A lot of these guys, like Coach McFarn and Ronnie Cookson and Carol Cookson. You know, I've known about them forever. They're legends. And I and I said, I here I am just a basketball fan, and I'm getting to sit down and talk with these guys and just pick their brain. Pick their brain, you know. Yeah. And so that was an honor to me, you know. So uh I tell people that uh they enjoyed it, though. I could tell they enjoyed it as much as I did, because they was looking back on their careers, you know, and they was reminiscing. You could tell they just enjoyed it. So I got as much out of it as they did, and then it ended up being good content for my book, too. Right. Win, win, win, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

I of course I know Coach Hollyfield very well, and I know Lennis very well. The amazing thing to me that I've noticed about those two, and then I have other friends that are coaches, is the amount of detail and the specificity that they have. They could remember Yeah, we played New Madrid on a Tuesday night. You know, in January, and so-and-so for New Madrid had 27 points that night and killed us. I know. Or we held him to that night, and no one specifically plays and players that night. I know it. You're right. Did you find something similar that with all those guys?

SPEAKER_02 37:44

I did, and they did. They each talked about Pacific stuff. Uh Carol Cookson talked a whole bunch about he coached at Twin Rivers. I think they could have been undefeated. They got beat by Cardinal Ritter, and there was a some degree of controversy, something to do with uh uh something at the end of the game. And he really uh you could tell that really uh stung with him. Yeah. Over all his wins and losses and his successes. That was just uh he knew that was a chance to get a state champion.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Coach Hollifield just said that he remembers the losses more than he remembers the wins. That's exactly where I was gonna where I was going with that. Vic kind of insinuated that too, though.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Yeah, those guys remember those stinging losses more than someone else.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

That was the way Coach uh Cookson was, Carol Cookson, and he just uh and I just let him talk, you know. I wanted to hear all that he wanted to say, and it was I could tell that it really stung, you know.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

What year was the f Fred Johnson controversy at stake? Was that '69? 1969.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

So Yes, I remember that very well. And uh course probably uh he he is known for that. That's what his legacy is, you know. I mean, take it or leave it, you know. I mean, he was a great high school player and all that, but that's just how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

And some I've heard that there's some video out there that shows that he did not he did not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

A good thing, so I've got a lot of those guys uh that submitted for my book. I wasn't able to get Fred, but uh, I've got a lot of the early uh the late 60 and early 70 uh Oran players. For your new book. For my new book, yes. I'm kind of getting having a lot of it. No, that's okay. And so Rodney Legrand was on that team, and he really he really on some of his stuff he submitted to me to be included in the book, he hits on that quite a bit. So when this next book comes out, we can see his take on what really happened. Okay. He was there, he was a teammate. Oh, gotcha. Okay. That's gonna be something exciting for people to read.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yeah, because uh the stories that do you know the account? Yeah, I do. I do. Basically they said he you you get 10 seconds or something to shoot a free throw, and they said he took longer, so they waved off the free throw, and uh from what I understand it was It kind of was controversial.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Yeah, it had an effect on the outcome of the game, like that. There was still a little bit of time left, but it had a dramatic effect on the outcome of the game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1969, yeah, that was Coach Gene Best, and then of course he left after that, went to Three Rivers for an assistant job. And he was at the book signing too. How cool was that? It was. And I was so honored. And so what I heard was he came over there with intentions of maybe stand for a while, and then Three Rivers women had a game, kind of a a district or a whatever you call it, region. And so he enjoyed it so much, mainly being able to see people that he had coached, you know, and just people in the basketball world, that he just stuck around. He told whoever said, I'm just gonna stay here. And I I thought that is that makes me feel so honored. Yeah. But that's what it's all about, not me, right about the players and the coaches. And I was glad I could contribute to that. Yeah. And it made me feel so good that these guys are having a good time, you know. That's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

Yeah. W when you were doing when you were doing your research and writing this book, were there was there teams that brought more brought you back to your childhood that you remember watching specifically? Did did some of those memories come back when you were researching this stuff?

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Yeah, they did. Uh of course, you know, Lilburn had some great teams in the uh early middle 70s. Coach Mack played for them, right? Coach Mack played at Hyardville. Oh, Howardville. Oh, okay. He got out in 1966. Okay. Okay. But the Lilburn team for uh Lindis, uh I mean not but Ernest, Frankie Robinson, and people like that. Was that Bishop? Leonard Bishop? Leonard, I think, was an assistant coach before he went on out to New Madrid County Central. He was there and then he went to He was like in Dallas, Texas, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Was he the one that coached Chris Bosch? Yes. He was. That's the one. Yeah. They come up with the biggest. Lincoln Burk Lincoln, Lincoln, Dall Dallas Lincoln. That was it.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

He came up a couple different times and just showed out. Not showed out in a bad way. They just I know uh yes, it did.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

It brought back a lot of memories when we started talking about the teams I was familiar with and watched because Lilburn was going for a three-peat in 76.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

They had a kid named Jimmy Baker that played for him, and he was a a cousin of my sister-in-law. So we got to hang around. So I watched a lot of their games in 76, uh, you know, with Jimmy, and then you had Frankie Robinson. And so uh I saw a lot of their games in 76.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

So what was you said class M, and I remember that. So they had small, medium, and large. Is that what they did.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

They had that up until s I think in 74. 73-4 they went to class one, two, and three. Okay. And then then on up later they went to four and five, or whatever. So there's different segments of the our history that they uh but back in those days it was S M and L, smart small, medium, large. Okay. And in 73-4, it went to one, two, three, four A. Okay. And now we called it class one, two, three, four. Right. Now they dropped the A. I don't know whatever that's about. That's another topic too, a lot on social media. You know, somebody else somebody said, no, it's not class A anymore.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

They'll say class five A, and they're like, no, it's just class five.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

You'll get corrected pretty fast.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

Yes, you will. That's right. So is there was it structured simil similar? Because I I was I was born in 71, so I didn't start watching basketball, high school basketball till probably the early to mid-80s. So I don't and and even then, of course I've I was Sykes and I lived here, but we didn't have a lot of success during that time. What did it have was it district tournaments and then with the sectionals and quarterfinals kind of thing? Or was that very similar?

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Yeah, and we called them regional tournaments in district. And you win the regional and saying you would have your uh first round. Like a sectional, now they call it sectional. Yeah, I guess they would call it sectional and then your quarterfinals, then your semis and your state championships. So the same format. Okay. Were they mostly played in Columbia, the state finals? Uh they were. Okay. Then you had uh like neutral locations for your uh your other rounds. You had uh a whole school for the regionals, just like you do on districts. Yeah. And then you had uh uh what do you call it, neutral for your uh sessional and then quarterfinal and then you went to state. Okay. So they were all in Columbia. We'd always say we're going to Columbia, you know, that's a term we use.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

Wasn't there for a period in the eighties?

SPEAKER_01 44:15

The late 80s, where there were Springfield Springfield. Because I remember the first the first Yeah, you're right. Probably the first basketball high school basketball I ever went to was uh Charleston and Sodan at the the the ninety nine ninety finals, the final nineteen ninety ninety.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Yeah. That's what they did. They finally kind of started bidding it out. I guess uh Missouri State, they kind of started uh having interest in having that part of the state. And so now they just they've been bouncing back and forth the last how long? 40 years, 30.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

2018 was the first year it went back over there and then it went back a couple years. It's back to I personally, me, Columbia means the final four. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

I I don't know. Old school stuff. I tell people I said that's kinda and I do the same. I said, Ruby, Columbia is, you know, to me that state. Yeah because it's a major university. You know, it's it's a big the big campus. Right. Kids enjoy going and playing there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

Yeah. Yeah. Springfield's a beautiful town. It's a great town. They have a uh great facility, but to me, Final Four basketball is awful.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

And even Springfield's an easier trip for us, isn't it? Actually it is. So yeah, it's all about I'm like you, Matt. That's a that's that's state. That's going to state.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Well, I mean, like even other sports though. I mean, like Cape has hosted the volleyball state tournament for for past several I don't know.

Playoff Formats And The Shot Clock

SPEAKER_02 45:42

And of course, the old Hal Fieldhouse done the state tournaments in the early 50s, 50s. No kidding. No kidding. And that's another whole story that I will touch on a little bit in my next book. You know, uh I didn't realize how an old fan that's been around for years and he he went to games there as a young kid. Really? And he's still around today. He's got tons of uh stuff from uh programs and stuff from back in the days. Yeah. Sure does.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

I I I I didn't know that. Yeah, they sure did.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

Traveled some of those teenagers.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Yeah, they had like class A and B or something like that. Yeah. Then they went to S M and L somewhere in the late 50s, early sixties, somewhere like that.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

Do you we're gonna kind of I've got friends, my my brother lives in Tennessee. I've got a good friend of mine that's a head coach in Tennessee. His name is Blaine Mahaffey. Blaine's a head coach at Dyersburg. And they have a in Arkansas is different. And I'm just wondering if that ever bleeds over into Missouri, just get your opinion. This is just just fodder for talk. But so for example, in Tennessee, well, they're split, private and public, but they have so their conferences are basically like our districts. And they'll have two neighboring, this is the way I understand it, and if I'm wrong, somebody correct me. And or if y'all know, correct me. So like we like like our well, we don't have sectionals in class five, but let's just say our our district one and district two, that's that's who we play, end up playing in the quarterfinals, the winners. But let's say in Tennessee, their conferences or their districts or whatever they call them, they'll have the two top teams. Oh no, I'm sorry. To start, they'll have the four top teams and these four top teams, and then these four, like the number four over here will flip and play the number one, and then the two will play the three, and the three play. I mean, so they they so the the one on this side plays the four and the three plays the two and the two plays the three. And then the topus maybe maybe the top two or maybe the four go on, yes, and so you can lose games in the district or in your state playoff run and still make it. As a matter of fact, in Arkansas, actually, as we as we each week we give a shout out to uh Brian James and Derek James for a lot of their history as well in this area for sports. Yeah, they Brian and I were talking about this a few weeks back a couple years ago, Blyville, Forest City, and somebody else down there played in the final four, and they were all from the same district because of the way they match up and go through the state and play. Actually, they had three teams from their conference or whatever in the final four. And that would be like Syson, Cape, and New Madrid being in a final four together. To me, that's that that part's odd. Yeah, do you like that though? What do you think? I I think you would have to shorten your regular season because if you're gonna accommodate a lot of games, because you're talking about well, we didn't have so if you have a sectional round, you've probably got three district games, sectional, quarterfinal, and so you got six games in between. We're there, they may have ten games.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

I don't know what it would if if the anything Missouri could look at right now is cutting down on travel time for like districts and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

That's the Yeah, I mean we had West Plains in our district. That's not fair to West Plains. That's it's just not. When I see that sometimes I think that's you know I mean they were they were a legit Now I I could see that if that would be the benefit.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Like if there was some travel less travel in what they're doing, that may be They were a legit three hours from s from West Plains to Cape.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

Yeah. Because it is it's a hard two fifteen in a car. It sure is. And you know in a bus it's going to be two and a half to Sykes and then another thirty to Cape.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

But part of that, I mean, West Plains is out there.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:31

It is. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere with no Class V schools around. It's good that you mentioned that because uh Derek McCord is over there now.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

Yeah I know him pretty well now. Dyer County. He was telling me about that and he said he likes it. He likes that. And what it's designed to do is to keep uh to try to put the better teams into the state championships. Yeah, a lot of times, you know, like Charleston knocking out New Mad or Notre Dame knocking out uh Sexton back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Well, I mean look it happened this year. I mean, Viani and Webster Groves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Well, Viani, Webster Groves.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Uh-huh. It happens every year.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

And Westminster.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

See, it was it was Webster Groves, Viani, M I C D S, Sykston, Westminster. And we were all within this quarter of the state.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

So, you know, there's always pros and cons of all this, you know, and then but who knows, you know. I mean, we're used to this. Uh lots of times people complain, well, you know, we we're really, you know, we got beat in our district by so-and-so, you know. Well, look at those Dexter teams. Same thing. They do have a legitimate argument, though, a legitimate case. Yeah. So I don't know. But Derek McCord likes that over there. He's been doing that now for 15, 20 years. Yeah. He's been down there over there. He likes the system. He said he loves it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

It's it's confusing if you don't know. I'm sure it's easy to follow once you see it, but just because we don't know the specifics about it, but I do know that you could you could lose probably up to a couple of times.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

Well, wasn't it Illinois that used to do they used to bring the top the sweet 16 to like Champaign and play in the U.S.?

SPEAKER_03 52:02

We've taught I've I've I've wondered if they've considered something like that, moving the quarterfinals, you know, and almost having like a week-long deal. I know, and I think Kentucky might do that. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

Maybe Kentucky has some kind of different, because I think they have two state playoff systems, don't they? Because didn't and they have something different than we do for sure.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

They have to be a good one. Because they had some kind of mid-season. Mid season tournament? Because maybe they had They don't have classes. So they had a midseason, because okay, so last not this not this current season, but last year, we played I can't remember the name of the time. Crap, I can't remember the team we played, but we played at Murray, Kentucky on a one-day deal. There was a shootout, you know, they had six or seven games that day or whatever it is. It was on Martin Luther King day. Yep. And we were playing a team there, and we were supposed to play Callaway County, and they couldn't because they played in their mid-season state tournament and ended up winning it.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

And they're limited on how many days they can play in a row. In a row, that was their state rules.

SPEAKER_03 53:05

But they don't have after that, they've got one class. Kind of like Indiana used to be. So they had one state champion, which I don't know, I'm not wild about that either. But you mean it's just interesting. It is. And I just I'm curious if I guess I said all that to say this. Have you heard any rumors about anything? I I haven't heard of anything about anything changing in Missouri. I haven't, huh? Haven't either. Even the like the shot clock is starting to sneak in a little bit. What do you think about that? I I'm a fan of it. Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

You know, I mean I could go either way. Maybe I tell people, you know, I kind of, you know, I like it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

When we we first saw it last year, I say we, Sykston, we played Principia over in Springfield. And they had it. They had it. And with playing them and playing us, there was it never it never came into account.

Why Towns Rally Around Teams

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Uh-huh. That's right. Sometimes it doesn't, you know. Yeah, it never was a was a thing. And then of course the CMO conference tournament did it. And then the uh Christmas tournament, Kate. I think they had it. I don't I ain't sure about Bloomfield, but I don't think Bloomfield did it.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

I went to Bloomfield. I don't remember the R.

SPEAKER_02 54:21

And you are right. A lot of times it doesn't really uh affect the game anyway, and then sometimes it will. But so I'm uh I'm not against it, and I'm not just, you know, it's kind of to do either.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

I kind of like the idea of it being able to be in like shootouts and and tournaments. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

And just kind of leaving it at that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Yeah. That's a good idea. And maybe, you know, I don't know, maybe bigger classes can well can can use it in tournament, uh state tournament. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

Right, yeah. That's uh that was a it was just interesting to me to hear the other states ride around us and hear their playoff playoff run. The downside to it, it probably would cut back on some games. You know, you're gonna have to end the season earlier, so to speak, before you get into playoffs. So that part I don't care for as much. But uh either way. Let's let's go let's see if I can reel it back in. I'm bad about chasing rabbits, and as I say, I do too.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

I enjoy chasing I enjoy I enjoy chasing rabbits. Sometimes you get some good conversation.

SPEAKER_03 55:23

What have you what do you think has been some of the biggest changes starting in 68 to 2020? What what do you think were some of the biggest changes in how basketball was played or how it evolved or things like that?

SPEAKER_02 55:34

Yeah. Uh the biggest now, probably in my days in the late 60s, early 70s, the game kind of started picking up a little bit. You know, back in the old days, you know, we we looked at it as methodical, and it was. You would look at some of the old uh scores. They didn't score a lot of points. So probably the biggest change I've seen is probably the physicality, you know, because of course they allow you to play like that, which is okay, you know, because it's equal for both teams, you know. That has changed a whole bunch. Because sometimes I'll see a game, I say, golly, how how can they bring that ball up the floor like that? Somebody hanging all over and knocking them around. And you know, uh so that has changed a whole bunch. And I like it. Nothing wrong with it. Right. You know. Of course, a three-point shot when it came back when it came in, I like that. Yeah, I think. I love the three-point shot. I do too. And then, of course, you know, uh they didn't allow dunking up till a certain time. I think that came in, I don't know. That was the late 60s, I recall. Somewhere in there they they brought it back in. So probably the physicality, you know, has changed a lot. And then, of course, your athletes are just phenomenal, you know. Back in my days, you know, you would just have very few teams that might have somebody that a standout athlete, you know. And now they're all over the place. Right. All over the place. Interesting. Interesting. All over the place. You think that's just training? Just training, and then I I even say just the nature of the era we're living in, you know, all the way from prenatal care, maybe, to no just you know what I mean. Yeah. No, that's where you just everybody and just the availability of stuff they've got nowadays, these schools have real nice weight lifting rooms. So all of that has contributed. Interesting. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

Uh it sure has. Do you do you think the players now understand the history? Like like so like kids playing right now, do you think they have a real good grasp of the history of this area? Probably a lot of them don't.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

And then I had run into some that do that kind of surprise me. You know, I run into uh a pretty young kid uh and they they have kept up with it, they know. So probably most don't, you know, and some do. Yeah. Probably as you maybe as they'll get older they'll understand the history that and that that they've been part of.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

To to do that. And so But yes, no doubt we have a great history. A lot of it probably depends on the town, too. Because I I'm thinking of like Charleston. They know that it starts at Lin Lincoln School, a lot of it. You're exactly right. That's a that's a good observation that you're having, yes. I mean, like they they and those kids are watching from a very young age, and when they get invited into that, that's because they understand how to play and they understand the history.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

They do. They've got it. Syson's got that going right now. Yeah. They've had it going for a while. That's that's a good point there. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

And and I think those kids do. And I I know there's things like that in Lilburn and and at least maybe their history of their schools anyway.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

Maybe not the history of the area. Right. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

What do you what do you think uh attracts people to the basketball? What do you why do you I I we have a pi we have opinions, we talk about this a lot, but like Syston. We travel and and in general when teens make it to some start out of district and quarterfinal or sectionals and quarterfinals and definitely state. We talked to some people that were sitting right in front of us, they had been at the class one, two, and three games, and they were like, Man, yeah, you guys brought just a ton of people. And they said, then they said, I think Hati brought everybody in their little town. What do you what do you think that why do you think people do that? Why do you think people follow that so well? Well, well.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

So when these like Hey Ty, for instance, basketball and the game of basketball, high school basketball, there's no better a way or method to bring a community together. You know, we got divisions nowadays. We talked about that. We've got social media, you know, and all this old stuff. And that's the one thing that I have seen over all the years that brings everybody together for one common cause, and everything else is just put on a hold. They kind of get in the zone, they're supporting their hometown team. So it does that for sure, the game of basketball. Uh and I think that's the main attraction. You know, they're proud of their community, you know. I mean, they're getting recognition. Yeah. And they know they was a part they're a part of that. Yeah. They went to that school.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

So it's one of those things. Well, most people that go to the game have some kind of connection to one of the players or coaches.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

And then uh but yeah, sometimes I wonder, I'll go like, are we okay? Yeah, we're good. Yeah, we'll keep going. That there. Like I'll go to a game and and you know, I s I call it people come out of the woodworks, you know, Matt. Right. Right. They come out. And you think they don't really know or keeping up with it, but they are.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

But now do you know how winning is? You know, if you win, you know, I mean, nobody likes a loser.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

You know what I mean? What did what did what Ron Shoemate said? Well, if that's fair or not. No, no, that's fair. What what did Shoemate said something along the lines of they'll support you when they win when when you win, and they'll support you when you win. Yeah. Kind of thing. So I guess he meant only if they're only if you're winning.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

There's a book out, and a friend of mine gave that to me last year. He found it at uh like a a a store in Cape. Yeah. And I'm reading it and I haven't finished it. It's exactly uh what you just said. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the title is something win or win or something like that. Win or win. Win or win. Yeah. Yeah. And that's uh exactly right. So that's just the nature of life in general. You know, everybody wants to support a winner. You know, be a loser. I guess that's a good attitude to have. Go get Luke.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:25

Sorry. We'll we'll keep going. Okay. That's what Mike and I have talked about quite a bit is the fact that we're divided so many ways. Who did you vote for? Where did you grow up? What do you what do you believe a religion? What do you believe? I know what. And and I hate it. I do not. I hate it. I I despise it as a matter of fact. But for those two hours or for or well, maybe even longer during that time when we're all during that time, it doesn't matter who you voted for, what church you go to, what color you are, or your background. We are all bulldogs, or we're all New Madrid County Eagles, or whatever.

Book Two Focuses On Life After Basketball

SPEAKER_02 1:02:12

And and you can tell people uh enjoy that moment. You just see it. Yes. And you know, and so that's one thing that really sticks out to me, you know, what high school basketball does, especially when you have some successes, you know, and you go to state. Yeah. Everybody always say everybody's gonna jump on the bandwagon. Now you got your fans, and some schools have better fan bases than others. Yes. But still, yeah, if you win and go to state, you're gonna carry quite a few people most of the time. That's right. And for a good reason, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:40

Yeah. Shout out to Luke, though, real quick. Luke fixed our uh technical difficulties. All right. Micah tried, but he hey, I I hadn't done it enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

He's your backup like Chippy is maybe, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:53

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

Well, Luke, Luke is the Luke is I'm I'm Luke. Luke is part of the shout-out team.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:58

Yeah, I'm I'm Luke's backup, actually. Fortunately, he was here. He he got here from work that he was able to fix it. I was when you left, I was hoping that's where you were going initially to get him.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

I didn't know he was upstairs. I looked over there to that's where I went first. Oh, gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:12

Okay. Sorry. I then finally I just like go get Luke.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

I heard him up. I heard him downstairs, but I didn't know if he left or what. Yeah, I like that. You said go get Luke.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:21

Time for Luke. Time to bring in the expert to get this done, to get it done, get it fixed. When you when you were well, let's let's jump forward a little bit. You're that this next book you're writing, do you have a title? Can you share a title? Do you want to share a title? If not, that's okay. I don't want to put you on the spot. Not yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

Yeah, I think we do have one, but it's not just for sure. Okay. Uh yeah, so we might just uh hold on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:52

No, hey. Hey, now they're gonna now we're leaving them with a cliffhanger. Yeah. They'll have to go buy it to get it. Kind of a teaser, you know. That's right. Yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Not that I want to know the story. Is there like a sp a story in there that that you're excited about people hearing? Yeah. I mean, like it some more than the others.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

This second book, we want to talk about that for a minute. Yes. Yeah. So it's gonna be on the high school players, high school career, and beyond. Okay. And it's just relevant players. You know, we've got a bunch of uh well not relevant, but let's say notable. More notable. Uh-huh. More notable. Yeah. So we've got tons of them. Yeah. I mean, you know, if and and every day I find a new one. You know, right now I discover a new one that I didn't really know about.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

And uh there's I'm excited. I'm I'm excited about that just because I feel like that one of the things in our in in the boot hill, I think we do a terrible job at like we focus so much on basketball, but like where this has taken other peop these people to in life. I mean and I wanna like our we our our youth need to know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

That's kind of what this book tries to get out there, and here's another good deal here. So I talk about that a lot with some of these guys, especially these coaches that coach and they grew up in the boot hill and they know kind of and they talk a lot about how sometimes these kids are under the impression of to be successful in life, all I have to do is just uh when I get in high school, I'm gonna be a siesta bulldog. It could be anybody, New Battery County, Central Eagle, Charleston Blue, but anyway, I want to be a siesta bulldog and I want to be a good player. I want to be somebody that people remember. And for some reason, uh they uh that's where they stop. They kind of, you know, they they think that once I'm a senior and I accomplish all this, like I've done accomplished everything in life that I need to do. You know they don't realize this is just the beginning of my life. That's right. So I don't know if y'all would agree. You probably would. So a lot of these coaches are conscious of that in in in schools and administrators and teachers, that we w want to make sure these kids understand that basketball is important. Yeah. You learn a lot of life lessons. Correct. And all that, but still yet, you know, everybody doesn't go on and play college, and surely everybody does go on and play pro. Right. So more than likely you're probably play play pro. And so we have to focus on not just basketball, but uh being a productive citizen of the school.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:19

I think I think we do. I'm not saying intentionally, but I think we do a terrible job at telling the stories of what the success that's beyond the court.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

So here's uh get back to this second book. That's what my main focus was to uh sign up what these guys did after. And it doesn't have to be a basketball player. Sure. I became a successful farmer, I became a teacher, you know. Right. So I'm I I dug up players that, you know, would represent those different segments of life. To let people know, uh especially if these younger kids read it, uh here, you know, he was a great high school basketball player, but he didn't play college, maybe. Right. He didn't go to the NBA, but he had a successful life. That mainly he had this successful life from what he learned from basketball. Yep. I love that. The responsibility, the discipline, the accountability, the effort. Losing, efforts, all this good stuff that all these coaches preach all the time. That's right. So this book will hopefully kind of uh it will represent that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:20

Did you did you have like with the first book, you had a geographic area and you had a time frame. Did you have something similar to that with this? Same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:31

So the players will come out of these 40 schools.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:33

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

Well, I just kept the same concept. You know, we'll just uh kind of extend on this first book. Yep. This will kind of be like the second edition or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:43

Right. So it'll be kind of like uh volume one, volume two. Okay. It's kind of my idea. I like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:48

I like that a lot. And you anticipate can you uh so finally uh I say finally, because this takes time.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

Oh of course. You always say, well, I can do this and that, and you always hit a a snag.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

So I have this stuff turned into my publisher. It is on a thumb drive the way he wanted. My IT person, Chippy. Is it IT? Is that the thing done? That's it. That's what we call them. He got it all on a thumb drive, and I've got tons of photos. Yeah. I've got lots of players. And and I'm gonna make sure people understand I didn't get all of them by no maze, you know. There's still a lot of them out there, you know. We talked about that one. We're all good. So he's got it, and uh I was told maybe five months we can have a book. Oh so hopefully it will be late August. Okay. You know. Okay. And so I think we can because this is more complete. The stuff I turned in was more complete than the first one. Oh. Because the first book it was complete, but then it wasn't because I was just on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

You didn't know what you were doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:49

I didn't know what I was doing, and then they had to kind of tell me, hey, Irwin, I need this or that. So I think we can get it done in five months. So let's just say late August, early September. Okay. So that's what you're Yeah. That's just that's a kickoff school. Yeah. So now we're getting closer. When I initially started, I thought we could have it out now. I see mid-March. Well and it it didn't really you know, that's just the way it is. I'm okay with it. Because I'm just a year and a half into it. So when it comes out, it will be a year and you know, eight months.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:18

So you've shortened the process from the first book then.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

And the way the reason I had a lot of the context, I knew more, you know, and I had the base of the book, you know, there at my disposal.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

I the these books are worth their weight in gold, and and I go back to when we had Coach Vickery on on the doghouse. I know the coach gave us there there was a book called The Dogs. Or excuse me, Dogs. And it was our football history from like the start of like 1911 or something crazy up until you remember the the nineties or late nineties or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

I thought it was too right around two thousand.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

And maybe it was two thousand, and the guy put that together, and and there's been a few people trying to pick it up now and go forward with it. But all that stuff's important to chronicle it, and that's exactly what you're doing. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Yeah, so I tell people, I said, I never thought in the in the world that I'd ever do a book. Yeah. But it's just a process, and so I'm proud of the fact that I did it. It makes you feel like, you know, because I've been such a big fan, I thought I'm going to contribute as a fan and as a we're going to get some history here forever, you know. So I'm excited about the second one. I think people are gonna really like it because it talks about just what we got done discussing about life after basketball, you know. I love that. Some went into professional football, they don't have the books. Some went into they played a lot of overseas professionals, some went into baseballs, you know, whatever. Some went into just regular jobs. Right. Some became high school coaches. And every day I find somebody else, you know, I'll discover somebody else. So I have a wide range of uh different stuff people did. And some were uh, you know, pretty they're well known for what they did. And one of my favorite, uh well, I'm not gonna say, but we have a lot of good ones, you know. Yeah. We'll just wait till the book comes out.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:18

Another hey, that's what we call We almost got it. We did. We almost stripped him up, Micah. I love it. I love it. Oh Lord. So we expect that late summer, early fall. We anticipate. What do you the same ways you can be able to get this, you'll be able to sell it through a claim, kind of all those things.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:39

I'm sure uh Barnes and Noble will pick it up, uh, a clean press, they'll have it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

There's a I think they're the Amazon has it. I forgot. Okay, there you go. And I think I think there's a copy or two at our library here in Sykeston.

Ricky Frazier And Famous Connections

SPEAKER_02 1:11:53

Some of the schools I reached out to and then uh offered them a signed copy. It seemed like I might have signed it to Syston High School, maybe. Perfect. Yeah. Perfect. So I've been trying to do that. Some of the schools, I think Charleston has one, New Matter has one, Cape Central, several of the schools do. It's all important to do. And I got to them personally because I wanted to or in high school, you know, whatever. Thank you for something like that. Exactly. Exactly. So I'm all good with this. I guess looking back, I was uh maybe one of the perfect persons to do this. But here's something else I'm gonna add. There's a lots of people that know a whole bunch about our history. I've run into guys kind of like Naige, they know a whole bunch too. Because I would we would talk and then I would sit there after about 20 minutes of conversation and say, Dang, you know quite a bit, don't you? You know, like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:39

You're like, dang, I should have been writing this down kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:41

They would impress me, you know, and I said, You know quite a bit, don't you? So we have a lot of people that are historians. They they know a lot of our our uh past history.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:49

I it's interesting what what people know and that some don't write it down. Actually, I found what what you find when you talk to people, and that's we we talk about this a lot, it's becoming a lost art with social media and phones. But one of my one of my bosses I learned through in an internal podcast at the bank, and it's really kind of like an interview of executives and stuff, but he has chronicled weather in Farmington since like 1970 something. I mean, literally writes down the temperature, the rain, not forecasting, just what each day was for 50 years or more. And does it every day. I mean, today. Today it was this and this and this, and writes it all down. That's just so interesting to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:34

Here's one thing I'll add about this second book, and I'll I'm gonna throw one name out there for sure. And I was honored to do it, and Ricky Fraser. So what I did was Ricky, he's he's losing his sight, he doesn't see real well. I've known him from my first book, so we kind of have a connection there, you know. And so when I did his, instead of him, it was a questionnaire, these players still now, you know, to help me get their story. And he wasn't able to do that, and I s and so some of the guys I would call and just do it over the phone, and then I would I would enter it into uh the system. So I called Ricky, we talked for an hour and forty minutes. Can you imagine that? Oh my gosh. But he c he enjoyed it. What stories could he tell? He Oh, I know what and he talked a lot about his days at Mizzou and a lot of the stuff I knew uh and all that, and so we had a great conversation, so we finally get done. And then so right there towards the end, I look at my phone, it's like an hour and 41 minutes, and I said, Ricky, I said, We've talked for an hour and forty-one minutes. And he said, Yeah, I knew we had talked quite a bit. And I said, You know, I wished I would have recorded this. And then Ricky, I'll never get he said, Oh, I thought you probably were. I said, Well, I wished I had now. Oh, you know, just an eyed out an iron 40 minutes talking to Ricky Fraser and his career. We talked a lot about Mizzou. We talked about what happened after, his Chicago Bull situation. He talked about all that. He was open and frank. Wow. And he was just uh and i I would have loved to have that recorded, but I didn't. I didn't know I was gonna talk to him on Iron 40 months.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:06

Did you ever get to talk to Ronnie Dean?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:08

I reached out to him some and I and uh I never did get connected with him. Gotcha. Well, I bet he's got some stories. He's another one. Well, him and I think him and Ronnie and Ricky were they were classmates of them. Yeah. Anyway, so that's uh I I had to add that on the side. No, that's great. I wanted to add at least Ricky Frazier, my experience with him. That's great. And it was an honor to me to sit there and talk to a man like that. He's one of the greatest basketball players ever in the state of Missouri. And had a phenomenal college career, you know. Yes, he did.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:37

You know, my goodness. He played with Sun Volt, Stepanovich, Norm. And uh played against Elijah Wong.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:46

Sure did. Ewing, Patrick Ewing.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

Yeah, yeah. And he talked about a little bit of that too, certain uh stuff in the game. Wow. And I thought, man, Ricky year. And that's why we talked so long. Of course, I can talk for a while. Oh, yeah. Now what year did he graduate high school? 77. Didn't he? Okay. They won't stay in 75 his sophomore year, and then I think they might have got back to the final of four, one of those two years. I can't remember. I'd have to look and see at my stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:11

But yeah. That was a little bit before my time. I mean, I was yeah, I was two.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:17

Yeah. Oh Lord. Well, so let me ask you this question. Is there another book coming?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:25

Oh, you know what? When I did my first one, somebody real quick said, Are you gonna do another one? I said, Well not now. I said, I'm gonna let this first one play out. Yeah, sure. That's what I mean. Yeah, I think. I know you do. And then and then I thought I wasn't gonna do it. You know, as time went, I said, you know, uh, I just might not do it. Well, the notion hit me a couple of times through that four-year period. And one day, a couple of years ago, I even started to write down stuff and I just quit, you know. So it's telling me I'm not ready yet. So then about a year ago, well, let's just say late, what is this, 26, late in 24, going into the 25 year, the notion hit and I knew I was ready. That's just how things work. Yeah. I knew. I said, I'm ready, I'm motivated, so here I go. And I never look back. So then uh so anyway, I tell people, I said, this probably's gonna be my last one. I mean, my dad lived to be 99 and Well heck you've gotten time for five or six more books. Right, right, right. So who knows? I mean, you never say never, but you know. Yeah. And a lot of people ask me, uh uh, what about girls? Uh you're gonna I said, Well, I thought about it and I said, but I don't know enough about the girls as I do the boys. These books are about kind of what I know. Right. And I feel I need to know quite a bit to do a book. Sure.

unknown 1:17:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:41

So yeah, they've asked me about football and all that. I said, I know uh a lot about it, but not like basketball. Yeah, they're you know. We got a lot of history. Exactly. You know, especially basketball, but yeah. Track would be an interesting one. Track, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:59

Baseball. I just gonna say baseball. We've got uh we've had a pretty rich history of guys here that played baseball at the next one.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:06

So anyway, so I'm gonna have a lot of players in this book gonna have a lot of good stories, you know, about life after high school basketball. Mm-hmm. Just what Micah hit on that, you know, these people need to know that there is life after high school basketball, and life doesn't end your senior year of high school basketball because you was all state for a couple years. So you gotta let you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:27

Hopefully you are leveraging that toward an education.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:30

Another person that's gonna be in the book, and he's well known. He ended up writing uh and I'm gonna use it for my foreword. Okay. It is great. Okay. He's well known. And he's Well, your foreword for this book was written by Tyler Hansbrough. He done a great job. Yes, he did. But this one here will hit on kind of what we're talking about. And I told him, I said, this is a great story that I'm gonna use for my what do you call it? My foreword. And it so it hits on just what you said, Micah. So the book's gonna talk about that. That's awesome. And it's gonna be kinda inspirational to people, kids, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:06

There's probably people in I mean, I I don't know if you got any, but I mean there's people that definitely lawyers, doctors, oh yeah all kinds span managers, factories, whatever thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

All the different uh industries. So yeah, Tyler, he done a great job with that one. Uh and uh and you guys lived in Pop Bluff, what was the story? Or Chip Chipper? Chris went to school at Popper Bluff, Three Rivers. Okay, so he ended up renting a basement from a a guy right across the street from the Hansboroughs.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:35

So at the time, Tyler and Ben were like seventh, eighth grade. We was playing a bunch of basketball. Uh, Chris would go over there, they'd live right across the street, they'd play some basketball. He got to kind of know the family, and then their dad, Gene, Doc, we call him, he kind of relied uh, and Doc was a single father, you know. Tyler and Ben lived with him. So Doc kind of uh relied on Chris to kind of take the boys here and there, he'd run them around and all that. Yeah, never knowing. Never knowing they was gonna end up being like they were, but Chris told me, he said, Dad said there's some kids across the street, said Tyler and Ben said, Tyler's in eighth grade, said, You're gonna hear about him in high school. Sure no, we did. And then he they just kept getting better and better, and Chris ended up going to Springfield and they kept staying in touch. So uh they were and then But he would go over there all the time and they would invite him. I didn't know the s I didn't know that much of the sometimes it would be uh either Chris and uh Ben or Doc and you know they'd switch ups. So it'd be two on two. Here's a funny story real fast about Chris and Doc about how hard the Hansboroughs competed, and it was just uh instilled in them at a young age. So they were playing, and Chris said, you know, we were playing, he said a ball went out of bounds, my son Chip. Chip said, I dove far it out across some bushes, knocked a bush down and all that, and you know, they kind of picked him up and he said uh and they weren't on the plan. He said the next day, either Ben or Tyler, I think he said Tyler told him, said Chip said, uh Dad said he was really impressed with you, you know. He said after you left, we were talking, he said, you know, Chip's not just a real good basketball player, but said he plays hard as hell, though. That's exactly so you know that kind of you know Yeah. Dot was impressed with Chris about how hard he played, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:22

I heard a deal today, and Coach Hollifield talks about this all the time, and I know other coaches do. There's two things you can control, your attitude and your effort. Period. You can control that every day. And that's what that's what Chippy was doing. He was controlling his effort. I can do that. Now, whether or not this shot I shoot goes in, or do I dribble it perfectly, or do I make a perfect pass? I can't control that all the time, but I can control my effort.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:46

So that's kind of uh that's kind of the kind of stuff the handsport boys learn at a young age. We we want to play hard. You know, you don't have to be just all that great, but play hard. You know, play hard. Chip dove out across a bush and bite the bush down.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:57

I thought you were going to tell me Ben was mad at him because uh Doc made uh Ben and Tyler put in new bushes the next day. Look what you made us do. We're out there working in the yard.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:07

Anyway, so he became a friend of theirs, and uh then all of a sudden they start getting good and they start getting heavier recruited, and one thing led to another. I went to several NBA games with Chris, kind of just riding Chippy's coattails. Tyler would get us seats up at Indianapolis and sit right down behind their bench. We went to Memphis quite a bit when they played down there, and uh we would meet them after the game. So I had a a good ride with them. That's awesome. Uh my publisher knew that uh Chris knew of Tyler, so he asked us, you think you can get Tyler ride a forward? And I hadn't really thought of it. I said, Well, I'll ask Chris to ask Tyler, sure enough, Tyler said, I'll do it. You know, that's how that came about.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:41

I remember the first time I seen Tyler watching Charleston and Popper Bluff play at Popper Bluff his freshman year. This tall linky kid, I can't even remember, he he picked the pocket of one of our guards. I mean, like, and just goes down and just throws it down. I was like, Where'd this kid come from? I mean, like, you just knew right off the bat when you special. He sure was, yeah. I didn't know he was that special, but I knew I was like, this kid's definitely different than what we're at here, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:08

So uh the Hansborough boys, uh, I've been kind of kind of they're they both got their own lives going in there. So uh isn't Tyler like doing like play-by-play or something with North Carolina? He's doing something out there, and he's got he's like a like uh some kind of professor. What do you call it? Kind of like a kind of professor, they call it something. Adjunct professor. Yeah. He's something to do with the uh university. And of course, your dad, uh I've been dealing with him trying to get some stuff on Tyler and Ben to get them a a story on the book. Where's Ben now? Ben is in Bowley Green, Kentucky.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

Oh playing pickleball?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:39

They're both playing pickleball, yes. Oh my god. They're pretty good. They're pretty good. Uh well I'm sure they are. They are. They're real good. They're kind of on the they're like level four or five, whatever the top level is already.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:49

I wouldn't know I wouldn't know. I don't know. Only reason I know they play pickleball is because I listened to uh Johnny Manzel and Tyler. Like I did hear that. Tyler was Tyler was on on Johnny Manzel's podcast. I did hear that. It's really good. You probably need to listen to it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Now is Ben what's he Ben is into real estate.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:09

Oh, okay. He's married, got a couple of kids. Interesting. So and then cool. A fun story too, real fast. My brother-in-law Johnny Hunter, married my sister Anita, he went to school at SEMO in the early 70s, and so he was friends at Randy Hansborough, which is Tyler's uncle. Okay. Dad Gene's brother. So so that connection, I had that connection with Randy and Johnny, and then so and with Chips, so there's a connection there with the Hansboroughs, you know. Well, and it's real neat that uh I kind of know those folks. And but yeah, Ben's in Bowling Green, Tyler's in Chapel Hill. Yeah. Yeah. And so they're uh and their Uncle Randy's lived over there for a while. You know, he's a he's a a doctor too, I think. I met him a couple times.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:50

I was thinking Tyler was like doing some kind of radio thing.

Lightning Round Favorites

SPEAKER_02 1:24:56

He does quite a bit of different things with the uh university. Sometimes you'll see them on TV. They'll say there's Tyler Hanborough. Man, what a what a monster he was when he played. Holy cow. Yeah. So anyway, that's I mean, there's tons of stuff to talk about. I mean, when we're talking about history and stuff. That's great. And uh so I've had some good connections that have allowed me to uh do what I'm done. That's uh that's important. But then as you do something, you build more connections. I tell people I said, I've got phone numbers of uh I don't know how many of our uh past good players, you know, global players. And so I've got I built a relationship with them which just makes me feel better because it makes everything go smoother. Right. You know, they know that you're uh This is legit, it's not some kind of in the first book, you know, my publisher told me so that would give you credibility. That's right. You know, to do this second one. That's right. So that's made everything easier. I I agree with you. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:51

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:52

And I love it. I mean I just do it whenever I'm the kind that just do stuff on uh just you know uh on my book. I might work on it a little bit, I just set it down and pick up the next day, you know. Yep. Yep. On that first one, I had stuff all over my living room, you know. You know, and the second one not as much.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:09

Yeah, but you well, you gotta figure out what works. Yeah. Yep. So uh we got uh we got a couple more got some fun questions for you. We call we call this the lightning round. Lightning round. Yeah. Who is the best pure scorer that you came across or that you've seen just could score?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:27

Man, you know, Frankie Robinson comes into mind from Lilburn. Okay. He was a heck of a scorer. Frankie Robinson was tough. A lot of people will tell you that he got out of high school in 76 at Lilburn. He was tough. Okay. I would say him to start with. Okay. Okay. Along with many, many others. Oh, sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:46

I know it. This is the answers according to Irwin Porter. Lilburn High School class of 76. There you go. I love it. Who's got the best team nickname in this area, like basketball or the Coke? Which one do you like the best? I like the day uh the Delta C 7 Chargers is kind of catchy.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:05

I like that. Chargers. I like the reindeer. Reindeer is like maybe even better. I like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:11

I like the Clarkton reindeer. Yeah, just catchy. That is. Just catchy. I like that. You are, yeah. What was uh the school in Columbia called the Cupies? Yeah. That's a I don't even know what a Cupie is. I think I Googled that at one time, but I forget what it is. I can't remember what it is. I can't remember. I can't remember. I like that, Cupies. What is the toughest gym atmosphere?

unknown 1:27:36

Tough.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:37

Maybe the best. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:38

If you were an opposing team, where would you hate to go in and play? A lot of people say Charleston, you know, and then a lot of people say sison because it's a big gym. It's got different background and stuff, and then it's they got a lot of uh fans, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:50

Kind of intimidated walking in Charleston, do we?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:52

Yeah, Charleston, you know, a lot of people say uh the banners.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:55

It's loud and it's right on top of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:57

It used to be worse when the floor was painted with all the stripes and with and everything echoes on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:02

It's an echo chamber, you know, like that. So yeah, that that would come into mind, you know. Probably those two. I love it. Down the boot hill, you know, you got the old iconic gems like the Risco's left. I think Clarkton, some of the old gems are probably pretty neat to uh go in to actually went in Risco.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:21

We did. It's been a few years ago, and it was that's a it's an interesting old gem. It is. That's a good way to say it. Interesting old gym. Yeah. Like I think don't you have to walk under the if I remember you walk like under like the bleachers kind of to get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:37

Yeah. Yeah. It's got stage on this end. Right. Right. It's an itch. Seats are not real deep, you know. Right. Six or eight rows.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:45

Oh, your your front row. Yeah. I like I like Bloomfield's gym too.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:49

Bloomfield, yeah. I love it too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:51

You know, it's uh And they've added that new part up at the top, but they've made it to where it fits and it doesn't take it away from that gym.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:58

Bloomfield's got a nice gym. I like Jackson. It's modern, it's it's different. Of course, everybody loves the field house, they really do because it's big and spacious. Parking's no issue, you know, central location. Right. And of course I know a lot of times there debate on the CMO conference, you know, why Syston has it. Well it was the Systeme invitation. We know that. Everybody agree that we'll just have the uh but it's a central location. There's a lot of room. A lot of times that thing will fill up for championship night. So I don't have any I don't have any issue with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:26

You know no I'm well I think it's a great place. I certainly don't. I think it's I think I think it's a great place to have it. I like that. Yeah I do too. What do you what do you think one of the most underrated programs in the Boot Hill area that you say don't when I say underrated, not that they're not even good, the ones that maybe not get the press that they should.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:48

Ernie Bernie High School. Okay. I think because they've been good for a while. Mm-hmm and if you would look I don't know how many 21 seasons they've had and they don't get a lot of uh notoriety. Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:00

I don't think we're going back to when I was in high school oh my gosh his name Anthony He put a whooping on us. In the early 90s, you know when we went to Three Rivers in Kansas Kansas State, yes. And he is an assistant Linda Wood, I think, is he still I think that's right. He was this year. Yes that's right. Yeah that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:24

He was at SEMO for a little bit wasn't he I think he seemed like he might have been briefly I can't remember he's bounced around he's been at SIU and then he was at Northern Iowa and then he went to Three Rivers for one year and then he he went to uh Linda Wood. Yep. He's in maybe his third year there's a lot I think that's probably right. Yeah he was a heck of a player. Bernie that's a Bernie Bosch was had some great teams in the 90s they were good. Now if you would look from their last 35 years from 90 till now I don't know how many 20 win seasons they'd have they've changed coaches and they've been real consistent. Jason's or Coach Long's doing a great job with them right now too so they uh that would be one I think that would stand out. You know some of the uh good programs they get notoriety and your ass ones that don't Bernie High School.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:11

I love that that's I agree with you. I agree with you I agree with you. One coach that you would love to just sit down for a couple of hours and talk basketball.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:20

Oh man that's a tough one. And so when I I done my first book, you know I I sat down with seven of the greatest we've ever had and so I enjoyed each and every one of them and they was all the same but then they were different. Right. You know what I mean? Right. And so it was real neat and and and I talked oh man that's a tough one. You know those seven because we've had so much success. Okay. So those seven or eight there's eight of them. Yeah. Gene Bess. Well okay our eight coaches were uh put you on the spot here. Yeah. Carol Cooks and Ronnie Cookson, Jim Hall from Dexter, and then you had up Jim Bidewell. Yep. And then you had Paul Hale, Lindis McFarrell Danny Farmer, and Greg Hollifield. Oh look at you.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:06

Named him right off.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:07

And then Gene Best was a Cherry on the top.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:12

Yeah, because my first book talks about him a little bit, kind of his contributions, and my next book will have some stuff in there about him.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:18

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:19

Great. Kind of special.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:21

Hey, we're pulling it out of him little by little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:26

That's right. Someone has some good stuff about Coach Gene Bass. You could write a book on Jean Best.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:31

This is kind of just hit on his his influence and all that on our ISO folks go to add like they got kind of a long history of baseball through the Carol Cooks in the early 50s.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:43

Yeah. And I'm trying to think here so yeah I will talk about that a little bit. I'm going to hit on that sound too. So I will cover a lot just a lot of groups it's going to cover a lot of different that people's going to be really interested in. I'm real proud of it. Great. I like that you're doing individuals I like I'm going to like that. Yeah I think people uh and so like I said Matt when I start getting to these players then I'll find another one. You know I I might get one down at Southland High School. They haven't had a lot of success. But looking back they had some in the 80s in the different but last 20 years they haven't. A few times Southland couldn't even feel a team over the so I would find somebody down there then I'd find out somebody else and I would look and so yeah I'm just kind of took off from there. That's great. I've got a lot of players in this next book there's a lot I don't have. Okay. That's just the way it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:33

Yeah. It doesn't mean that you uh didn't try or whatever reason. You couldn't get them out.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:38

And the ones I could locate and the ones I could identify and I went with it. Yeah. You gotta stop somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:44

Yeah. Last question or well next to last question. Okay. One game from Boot Hill history you wish you could have seen in person probably the Porterfield versus Cardinal Ritter when they pulled that big upset would have been a good one to see. Yes it would have I agree I didn't get to see it. I listened to it on the radio but what was that ninety I guess that was one of the years when they won four straight.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:11

Was that when when Lauren Woods and Chris Carroll were there?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:13

Yeah and then the S3 yeah it was a major upset to me probably and and who knows I don't know about the other parts of the state that has to be one of the biggest upsets in uh Missouri State and high school state tournament play it has to be you know Portersville didn't have a chance going into that game. Wow it ended up being like 58 to 53 or something like that. Kind of kind of a low score game to a degree. Yeah. Yeah that game and uh that would stick out it'd be neat to see that. Love that. Yeah you know I'd like to go back and watch that sometime.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:46

Yeah and I'm sure it's on film somewhere I would some land issue yeah yeah I'm sure you can find it somewhere that's I that's a great answer that's a great answer. I love that all right last one three people you would suggest for us to bring on a show okay I'm taking some notes.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:04

So listen there's an older gentle gentleman up at Kate that he's been around watching basketball his whole life and he's a fellow that has some stuff from the early 1950s pups to go stuff at downfield houses tournament his name is Rich Lawrence I'm sure he doesn't mind me telling you this. Okay L A W R E N C E I think Rich Lawrence He uh went to the old St. Mary's High School in Cape which is now Notre Dame he's lived in Cape his whole life you see him at SEMO games he sits down behind the bench he's an older gentleman's got all right Notre Dame games like Notre Dame games oh I know exactly who that guy is he would be somebody interested to talk to him he's been he was like on every camera shot this year. Yes I've seen him everywhere that is him yeah really I didn't realize he rich lawyer because he could tell you he's got programs he still collects them today of I mean he'll even call me sometime Porter he said are you gonna go to this game over here and I said yeah or no and he said I need a program I said well if if I go I'll get one if not I'll get some so he gave his programs he's got programs from the early 50s state tournaments that puxigo blade in the right he showed a lot of of that stuff to me up at Cape He's got Wow he's got a house full of stuff just boxes and like tubs. Love that he could tell you about all that I think that'd be interesting I agree with you. He sure would I think he would love it you know so we need two more that would be uh if you got just anybody that would be interesting trying to think of some uh yeah Rich Lawrence and uh other topics too besides basketball.

Final Thanks And Go Dogs

SPEAKER_03 1:36:46

Yeah sure yeah sure and and if if that's on one you got right now you can get them to me later I'm putting you on the spot yeah yeah okay okay he would have been a good one as far as basketball I agree with you I agree with you I have to I'll get with you afterwards and maybe get his information okay you know and I'll I'll give him a heads up. Yeah. Yep I'd love to I'd love to do that. He'd be great. And we can do this like I told you we can do it virtually where we could record it.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:10

And he travels he will he's told me he will he doesn't mind telling I don't guess he'll be 90. He he prays about that he's in good shape and he is because he gets he doesn't look 90. No he doesn't I thought he was in I don't mind sharing with the world he he doesn't care you know yeah yeah I don't guess he does he he sure doesn't look 90. I know the guy you're exact guy you're talking about I know exactly what you're talking about because I've seen him a lot this year I've seen him everywhere he'll he'll show up at the riverbend he'll show up at the the the uh single conference tournament yes Christmas tournament Bloomfield he's all over the place yes I've seen him a bunch like you said at SEMO games he's been doing that for 70 years. Oh my gosh maybe 80 maybe 80 holy cows yeah yeah yeah for sure 75 let's just get technical 75 years that's unbelievable that's unbelievable what a what a great run I would have not have thought he was 90. No no I would have never said 90 sometime this year coming up he said I'll be 90 and whenever June or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:07

Well he's in great shape I said you're doing pretty good Rich. I guess so I guess so well listen we have had a blast having you on here thank you so much for spending some time with us and telling us about your book.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:21

When you when it comes out let us know we'll be happy to help promote it and and get that thing out and uh then uh one more time I I do want to uh express my appreciation for First State Community Bank for that first book because I was new into all this and I knew that we uh need a sponsor then I think maybe Chippy maybe he reached out to I think to Aaron I think he said somebody you know Matt might want to do it. Yeah and so he went so and I said I'm kind of blessed because you're the first one we reached out to you was a y'all was a great sponsor. Yeah. And then even in my my publisher the first one I reached out to I ended up using him. So I had good luck on that first book. I did work topic yeah I did have work hard for a sponsor or a publisher. Right there you go. So there you go worked out great. Yeah so yeah I enjoy all this and I love talking about basketball and uh me too and so uh I mean this is I could stay here all day.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:17

So could Micah and me absolutely absolutely expecting me to cook at some point.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:22

Oh well yeah yeah except for that his his family's expect him to cook so yeah I enjoy it you got a nice I love your podcast y'all do a great job I've tuned into them quite a bit and I tell people about them thank you so uh appreciate that I I feel honored to be a part of the what I know about high school basketball you know we love it yeah we love it well thanks for well thanks for being a part of it we end all of our shows we say go dogs and so I'm Micah Harris I'm Matt Tanner thanks for listening to the doghouse go dogs that's gonna do it for this episode of the doghouse thanks for hanging with us and showing love to Sykston where small town pride runs deep and bulldog grit never quits.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:06

Don't forget to subscribe leave us a review and share this with anyone who bleeds red and black. From the heart of the 573 this has been the doghouse where Sykston stories always have a home