Coaching with a Twist: Using Improv to Strengthen Presence and Partnership

What if one of the most powerful ways to strengthen your coaching wasn’t another framework — but play?

In this episode of The Coaching Book Club Podcast, Christy and Ken explore Coaching with a Twist: Improv for Coaches by Betsy Salkind and Amy Washawsky — a practical and surprisingly joyful guide to strengthening coaching skills through improvisation.

This conversation dives into:

• Why improvisation is the heart of coaching
• The power of “Yes, and” in client partnership
• How clear agreements free your brain to be present
• Why “there are no mistakes” changes everything
• Skillful interruption (without losing trust)
• How play creates embodied learning — not just cognitive insight

If you’ve ever felt pressure to “get it right” in coaching, this episode will feel like an exhale.

Because presence comes before tools.

And sometimes the best way to deepen your craft… is to practice differently.

📘 Get the book: Coaching With a Twist
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Transcript

 Christy Stuber: Welcome to the Coaching Book Club podcast, the show that empowers coaches through books. I'm Christy Stuber, and I'm here with my friend and co-host Ken McKellar. And today we're talking about Coaching with a Twist: Improv for Coaches by Betsy Salkind and Amy Warshawsky. This book surprised me in the best way.

If you've ever wondered how play, improv and presence connect to powerful coaching, this one makes a compelling case and is a great bookend to the book we talked about earlier last year called Yes, And. So here's what you can expect in this episode. First, we'll start with a quick overview of the book, what it's about, and why it matters to coaches like you.

Next we'll break down some key takeaways that stood out to us and share how you can apply these insights to your coaching practice. Finally, we'll explore how we're going to connect the real world coaching challenges to what we learned from this book. Whether you've read this book before or hearing about it for the first time, you'll leave with actionable tools to strengthen your skills.

So let's get started. Hey, Ken. 

Ken McKellar: Hey. How you doing? 

Christy Stuber: Mm good. How are you doing today? 

Ken McKellar: I'm doing good. I'm doing good. 

Christy Stuber: Yeah. Well, tell me what, what's interesting to you about this book? 

Ken McKellar: Well, first of all, this book. After reading it, I'm thinking of the poet, the great poet, Allen Iverson. When he says practice, practice, you talking about practice, you talking about practice.

This book more than anything, it gives you the opportunity to take a coaching, almost a coaching competency, right. And practice it through drills and, um, exercise. And that is one thing that you know, I mean, how often as coaches do we get to practice something? And, and, and, and this reminds us. Um, like as a mentor man, I can, I, I see using this a lot with folks so that they can really drill down on a skill, drill down on something that they're struggling with, and then get feedback, oh, excuse me, and then get feed forward.

Mm-hmm. Right. I like that. I like that whole concept. So that, that's for starters what I got at it. 

Christy Stuber: I love that. I wanna circle back to it. Um, for me it was the way they defined improvisation. At the beginning of the book, they said, “improvisation is the heart of coaching. It's being in the moment, listening and responding.

Play and creativity are not just fun features. They're fundamental to powerful coaching.” And it made me think about how improv is kind of what we do when we're coaching. It's like we are watching our clients, we're responding to what they're saying or doing. Um, we're not performing. We're not scripting, we're not fixing, we are being there with them.

And, um. I love what you just said about the games. There's so many fun games in this book that we won't be able to get into. Um, but the idea of practicing coaching skills through fun playing games versus practicing them through role plays or through peer coaching, which is what we often do in our coaching education.

Um. It is so much more exciting to me. You know, that's where learning happens. When we're relaxed and having fun, we can, we can build the skill up even more. And so this is a great resource for that. I wonder, um, what one of the key takeaways was for you? 

Ken McKellar: One of the key takeaways was the rules. 

Because you, when, when you think about. You think like the beauty of improvs are, there are no rules. And kind of the way I took from it is like, the beauty of improv is not that there are no rules. The beauty of improv is that the rules are invisible, right? I mean, they're there, you know, like yes and right.

Mm-hmm. And, um, what is another one? It was yes, and. 

Christy Stuber: There was say yes. Yes. And the other one I liked was, there are no mistakes. 

Ken McKellar: There are, yes. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Right? Mm-hmm. So it's, it's kind of like, and they, and they use this analogies like playing tag, you know? I mean, the rules are simple, you know?

Um. Pumpkin peaches, apple pie. Who's not ready? I.

Right. It did. You know people, you know, you, you open your eyes and you're gonna start chasing people, and then people come and they, they tag it free, right? So it, but you have just fun, right? But there's rules. I mean, you know, you don't, you don't go to the house, you don't go, right? So there's certain rules, just like coaching folks, there's that structure.

And the challenge is when that structure. Becomes the interaction that is the whoa Nelly right of the session. But when we can take that structure and put it behind so that there is a relationship and you can build that human interaction and we're, you know, I mean part of the rules is like, we're not gonna tell me what to do in coaching.

We're not gonna give it direct advice. We're not gonna do that. Right. But we're not gonna worry about that. What we're gonna worry about and focus on is yes and 

mm-hmm. Okay. Few threads I wanna pull. So the rules, I love the three rules that I, there were four, but the three that really stood out to me were the ones we mentioned.

Christy Stuber: Say Yes. Yes. And, and there are no mistakes. And when I took a couple of improv classes, it was, those rules were really helpful because they, they were agreements. Between me and my scene partner that we both knew that's how we were gonna interact. And the parallel I make then to coaching is we do have an agreement that sets the stage for our coaching conversation and that sets the direction for me and my client to go in.

We both know we're going in the same place. And, and I think for me, those, the rules and the agreements let my brain relax so that I can have fun and learn without them. Like I've noticed when I have done coaching sessions, and I'll admit I have done some of these where, uh, maybe I didn't get a clear contract.

It was a little bit, um, soft. My brain hurts trying to figure out what we're doing and then I'm not even able to be as present with my client. 'cause I'm not sure where we're going in this conversation. But when I got a clear contract, then I know this is where we're going. So same thing with, uh, the improv rules.

If I know the rule is yes, and then I know that that's how we're gonna be. Um, I also love the Say Yes as the first rule because it, to me, it makes me think about, um. What we need to do with our clients, we need to say yes to them, to their worldview, to their emotions, to their pace. We need to say yes to them.

We remove our judgment, um, and we let them know, we got you. I got you. I'm here with you, whatever you need. And I think that's. Really important and I think about the times where I wanna say no to a client and how that can like, eh, turn us off in no different direction or I wanna argue and be like, well don't you wanna do this instead?

Um, so it's not agreeing with my client, but it's accepting this is where they are and this is what they see. I don't have to agree with it, but I can understand that's where they are. I'll pause there 'cause I have one more comment I wanna make, but I think I just saw you kind of move your eyes and I'm curious what that was about.

Ken McKellar: No, no, I'm, I'm in total agreement with everything that you're saying and also say Yes. Yes. And, and there are no mistakes, right? That first, that fourth rule or third on this list mm-hmm. Was make a statement, right? Mm-hmm. So it's not about just asking questions, and it uses an analogy of if you just ask questions.

Then it, it, it forces the client to do all the work, which is what we want to do. First of all, I, I just want, that's what we wanna do. It's your job and wanna do all the work. But if we're partnering in this, if we're collaborating in this, then I'm also making statements also really balances it out and gives opportunity to expand that coaching space.

Christy Stuber: Yeah. Right. And that's kind of what it's all about, right? Is expanding and moving forward. So is the statement moving it, expanding it, or is the statement stopping it? And so the question for us as coaches is how do we ask, how do we use a statement that expands or moves, just moves the conversation. Um, I really love that there are no mistakes.

Probably because as we all know, I, I worry a lot about doing it right, quote unquote, right. I worry a lot about, um, being good enough. And so for me to reframe that there are no mistakes is really useful. And improv, it becomes, everything is material. So no matter what comes outta someone's mouth, that's in, that's material you can use.

Um, and in coaching everything is information and it's information. Maybe for me in something I wanna try differently next time. Maybe it's information for my client, maybe it's information for both of us. It's not a mistake, it's not wrong. And if I can relax and not view it as a mistake, I did something wrong, then my clients can also relax.

And now again, we're back in that learning space. So all of it is just information, not right or wrong.

What else for you as a takeaway? 

Ken McKellar: Well, kind of like I said at the beginning, there was so many activities. 

And opportunities to learn, grow, and play in a different way, kind of like you said. So it's just not delegated to what we're just used to in coaching class. You know, you do a session and you talk about it and you come back.

To, you know, outta the breakout room, right? This one right here is, it plays in a different way. So if you are or a mentor or you have a trained in school, this will be a good book to check out as far as it has it all written there for you. You don't have to really do anything but just to look at it. It tells you what to do, what do they call it?

Um. Play notes or what, what do they call it? Plans. They have the lesson plans right there laid out for you. I mean, you just could do it. So this, it, it was fun in that manner. It, it was fun in in that way. I mean, the learning was through the activities. 

And I didn't do a lot of activities in this book.

'cause there were a lot of group type stuff. So maybe you and I can get together and do a couple of these things and bond to the, the listeners. Yeah. 

Christy Stuber: Was there one that really stands out to you, one of the activities that you thought, yeah, I wanna do that one. 

Ken McKellar: Yes. I like, well, I mean, I like the one it, like they did Toms or tummy, right?

Mm-hmm. It opens an agreement and the reason why I like that is because, um, I think. That if we get that right in a coaching session, it really makes for a smoother coaching session. But the one that I really like, 

interruptions. The one that I really like. Was the lesson plans on interrupting, right? It talks and you get practice on how, when, when it makes sense, right? When it doesn't make sense to interrupt. Like you don't wanna interrupt when that client is processing or the client is a, a, uh, a, a verbal processor.

You don't wanna interrupt when the client is writing notes or, or something like that. But it does. Show you and demonstrate skillful ways to interrupt. So that was one of the ones, I'm a metaphor type of guy, that's what I do. So it, it has a sectional metaphors, which I also enjoyed, but I learned more of just kind of reviewing that interruption lesson plan.

And I could see how that one specifically would be helpful for me to play with in, um, an game setting. I'm not, I'm not comfortable interrupting. Again, I'm, that's like my old conditioning of, that's, it's not polite. You should interrupt people. I'm getting better. But boy, I'd like the chance to practice that in a different environment other than with my clients, so I can get used to it.

Christy Stuber: The takeaway for me is related to what we're talking about here with all the games, the plans, um, because they. They have a purpose, right? They call, most of these are called warmups. And in an improv, when I took my improv class, that was how we would transition from whatever I was doing before into the improv space and we would do warmups or these games.

And so these were. They are designed to be a way for the group to come together in connection and playfulness and presence. And they worked amazingly well. They were super fun. Um, they, they switched my brain from whatever I was doing into a more joyful space, and they got me more present into the space I was in.

And what I thought about then from reading this is what am I doing to provide myself transitional space? Before coaching sessions, what am I doing to create the sense of connection, playfulness, and presence inside of me? Before I log on the call to meet with my client, how do I maybe encourage my clients to do the same so that when they're coming in, they've already started transitioning into the reflective space of the coaching session?

What do you do, Ken, if anything, to transition? 

Ken McKellar: Pumpkin peaches, apple pie. Holler.

One of the things that I do is allow that space to be open so I don't, you know, when we start out a conversation, some people want to get right on into the conversation. Some people want to go back to last session's conversation. Some people want to talk about the, what's going on with them right now.

You know, a lot of folks that's in, in, you know, dealing with weather, so they want to talk about that a little bit. So you, you know, you don't wanna get in the conversation and let you know that I'm struggling with weather, weather or something that happened in their family. So I open, I keep that space open because I also believe that's the part of the high five of a coaching relationship.

I might even gonna tell you, you go back and listen to some other episodes. I'll tell you, I say it almost in every episode. 

Christy Stuber: Surprised you haven't asked, uh, you haven't been quizzing us. Um, yeah, I mean, that's something, a question that I'll, I'll ask people when they come into the coaching session is, what do you need to transition into this reflective space?

And some people will say, oh, I need a glass of water. I need a bio break. And others will be like, no, I'm good. We can get, get started. You know, so I try to ask that question. Um, so what are you gonna take away from this book and apply to your practice? 

Ken McKellar: Well, I mean, I think I'm gonna take one of these exercises and just play with it, you know, invite a couple of folks to play with me on these exercises.

That's, that's the biggest thing. 

Christy Stuber: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm gonna take away something that is not an exercise. But it is, um, used to prep one of the exercises. So they, uh, they were, they recommended a motivational interviewing framework to responding to people who want to, clients who have a request. Oh, Christy, tell me what to do.

Oh, Christy, do you have a resource for, oh, Christy, and I liked the questions that come from the motivational interviewing field. Um. They kind of parallel what I do, but I like these better. The questions are, um, you know, instead of jumping into advice instead of taking that bait, the questions you might wanna ask are, what specifically are you looking for?

What ways would this information be helpful for you? What do you already know about this? And then asking permission, may I share an idea? Would you be interested in a resource? And so I really, I really like those questions. A lot because I think it gives us more information in humble inquiry, which we read previously.

You know, we talked about giving advice, just really kind of cutting into that relationship and being disruptive. And so here's a way to say, okay, maybe I do have a resource, but let me get more information first to make sure it's a research that you'll actually find useful. And it's not just what I have, you know, sitting right by me.

So that, yeah, the idea of being collaborative and curious using those questions is what I'm gonna be pulling into my practice. 

Ken McKellar: I like that. That's good stuff right there. That's good stuff. 

Thank you for sharing. 

Christy Stuber: Yeah. Thank you for listening. So that wraps up our discussion today on Coaching With a Twist.

We explored how improv principles like yes, and the absence of mistakes and the power of play can transform our coaching presence. And we hope these takeaways have sparked new ideas for your practice and inspired you to dig deeper into this incredible resource. Thanks for spending your time with us today.

Your commitment to learning and growth is what this podcast is all about. If you enjoy today's episode, make sure to subscribe to the Coaching Book Club on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. And in the show notes, you'll find a link to the book guide for this book so you can earn CEEs while you read.

We'd also love to connect with you on LinkedIn, follow us for more coaching insights and updates about a coming episodes. And hey, we're always in the lookout for new books to review. If you've got a favorite that's made an impact on you, send us a message. It might be featured in a future episode. Thanks for being part of our community, and until next time, happy coaching.