Find Your True Purpose In Midlife with Dr. Shafer

What if the life you’re meant to live doesn’t show up until after you’ve already lived a few others?

Dr. Shafer, a former physician turned transformational coach, author, and speaker - is living proof that it’s never too late to come home to yourself.

After decades of walking the high-achiever path (you know the one...degrees, credentials, perfectionism on overdrive), Dr, Shafer hit a turning point. And instead of pushing through, she got curious. 

What unfolded next was a journey of shedding, surrendering, and stepping into her truest work: helping others break free from limiting beliefs and step into possibility.

Now in midlife, Dr. Shafer is using her voice, her story, and her heart to help others wake up to what’s actually possible - and it’s not about hustling harder. It’s about becoming who you were always meant to be.

In this deeply honest and soulful conversation, we talk about:

✨ Why transformation doesn’t always look like a big bang...but more like a quiet unfolding
 ✨ How to begin again when your identity feels tied to your achievements
 ✨ Letting go of who the world told you to be so you can finally feel free
✨ Her brand new children’s book (yes!) and what it taught her about healing and inner work

Dr. Shafer’s story is like a soft exhale and a spark all in one.

If you’ve been feeling stuck in your title, your role, or your “shoulds,” this episode is a beautiful reminder that your second act doesn’t have to be a compromise...it can be the most true thing you’ve ever done.

💫 Connect with Dr. Shafer:

• Instagram: @talks_with_dr_shafer
• Listen to her podcast: Talks with Dr. Schafer
• Learn more at: drshaferstedronova.com

Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.

And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!

Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.

Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to Thrive After 45, the podcast where we redefine the significance of you for you by you because of you. I'm Denise, drink Walter, a midlife renewal coach here to help women embrace their power, purpose, and potential. This show is your space to explore what's possible. When you prioritize you through inspiring conversations, expert insights, and real stories, we'll uncover how to navigate transitions, rediscover joy thrive inside and out. It's time to let go of guilt and fully embrace the life waiting for you. This is the Thrive After 45 podcast, and it is your time to thrive for you. By you because of you. It is such an honor and a privilege to welcome Dr. Schafer Rin to our show today. Dr. Schafer is a multi-passionate powerhouse. A physician turns transformational coach podcaster, speaker. Bestselling author who brings a unique and refreshing voice to the world of growth and mindset with a medical degree earned in 2011 and a life coaching journey that began in 2024. Dr. Schaeffer has dedicated herself to helping others rise above limiting beliefs and embrace a life of intentional. Transformation. She is the voice behind the Inspiring podcast talks with Dr. Schaeffer and the author of two thought provoking books, including International Bestseller Cracking the Rich Code Volume 16, and Her upcoming release, which we're gonna chat about, I hope, the Boy and his brightly colored blocks, which is, has. Actually just launched right May 6th in 2025. Her message is clear and consistent across her platforms, whether she's on YouTube, TikTok, Spotify, or Instagram. She meets people where they are. Guides them through with compassion and clarity toward personal freedom and purpose. Through her content coaching and recently launched Publishing House, Dr. Schaeffer supports both individuals and businesses in challenging their mindset blocks, unlocking potential, and stepping into a version of themselves they maybe didn't even believe was. Possible. She has roots in music and Deca and Dec. Decades long dedication to writing and editing. Add a creative dimension to her work that's both powerful and deeply personal. Dr. Schaefer, we are absolutely thrilled to have you here with us today. Welcome to Thrive after 45. Denise, thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here and to be in this space where you are creating an environment that encourages us to thrive because as as obvious as it sounds. But it's what we should do if we really take stock of our lives and how we have over time, set them up. We may find, I think many of us find that we and those around us have constructed a life that doesn't necessarily allow us to thrive as we really should be. I love what you're saying because I, I noticed this too, and I, and what I see, and let me correct me if I'm wrong or add to this piece, but what happens is we don't even understand what Thrive really means because we haven't probably experienced what, or if we have, it's in little snippets and then it dies. Right? Yeah. I love what you said about. In your introduction about that you should be thriving, right? Like you should be thriving and. Do it for you because of you. And I think that's really important because when we talk about development, sometimes it's more palatable to discuss the, the benefits of personal development on the people you love, on your children, on your spouse, your partner at work, the people that you serve through your work. And that can be a good icebreaker. For helping people to start to take those steps and start to, instead of leaning out and doing everything for everyone, start to care for yourself. Understand yourself, development yourself, and often. The first bite of it, the first taste we have of that is by, oh, I'm gonna get better for the people I love because we've been doing that our whole lives. We've been doing everything for everyone else. So I really love how intentional you are about saying you are doing this for you because of you. Exactly. And, and the other piece that I think is very interesting is that nobody else can do it for you. Because you're the only one who has the capacity to do it for you, by you because of you. So when you take that time and whatever that needs to be for you, I know a lot of my clients feel, oh, isn't that selfish? Isn't that, you know, given, and that's where the, where we start to do the dis disruption. Of the belief and you, I know you do all kinds of great work around limiting beliefs and sometimes we don't even realize that we have a belief system that is limiting us. How do you help people even uncover. Limiting beliefs per se. Hmm. Well I was just leaning into what you were saying, and it's really fun when coaches talk to one another because you're like, Ooh. Yeah. Like what tools, you know, what is your, what is your process? You know, because it's so enriching and interesting to learn how we all are trying to approach this because coaching is a different skillset than. Anything you've ever done before in your life. Most people, when you really learn what it is to be a coach, think, wow, that's fascinating. It's just listening. I. And asking curious questions and not having an agenda. Well, how hard is that? That's really hard. It's really hard because we are all so trained to do all of those things and to have these conversations that are kind of like a game of, of tennis. And so we've, we've hit this ball back and forth. We had this conversation. Lots of words were said, they were spoken, but we walk away and. That's that, right? I mean, how many great memories did you ever form? You may enjoy tennis, you may enjoy what it brings to you physically, but during that back and forth, you're not making those memories that you're gonna remember in the final moments of your life and say, gosh, I'm so glad I had that. But when you sat with a friend or a colleague and you stopped talking and you got out of your own head of thinking, how can I make this better for this person? You sat with them, you heard them, and you just went along with them on this journey, rather than trying to decide where do they need to go on the journey. And through that, we've been so trained to think that's a failure.'cause we didn't solve the problem for them. But what we did was empower them through our presence and as we, you know, learn things like coaching, as we learn things about curious questions, and we recognize no asking someone the curious question and really hearing the answer and then gently challenging, you know? Okay, so why, why do you think you need to do that for that person? Did the person, did they ask you to do that? Mm-hmm. You know, how many times has someone asked us that question? You know, because we might avoid that sort of question.'cause that might be interpreted as an in insult or as shaming. Mm-hmm. But it's such a great question to ask the people pleaser, the over giver, the overstretch, or did they ask you to do that? Mm-hmm. And then to say, okay, they didn't, and then this thing happened. This, you know, inevitably bad thing happened.'cause you did something for someone that they didn't ask for, they didn't want. Okay, let's get out of the consequences of that for them. Why do you think you felt compelled to do that? Mm-hmm. And getting down to the heart of the matter, and it's just, it's so beautiful and I know I've gotten down into a rabbit hole of coaching, but it's okay. It's so inspiring to have conversations with people like you because. These are the moments and the connections when we learn how to communicate in this very different way, that it's not like the tennis game that we had we walked away from, and that was that. These are how we make really genuine, meaningful connections with people and learn about them and create stories that we're so proud to tell about our own lives. I love that, bringing yourself into the conversation through a connection, not through, um, the lens of helping them solve. An a problem that you don't even know really, or understand the depth of what they're going through. So what's coming up for me as you're sharing your, your thoughts and, and brilliance of course, is the, is the power and act of listening. And really grasping what that is. When I was, um, teaching many years ago when I was a behavior resource teacher, the power of not only active listening, but observation. I couldn't ever explain the importance of observing, so now I'm, I'm even looking differently at the way that I have conversations and the way that I observe others in conversations. So there's so many moving parts, and when we allow ourselves that. Openness, that ability to just be present in the energy and the conversation. Everything can change for both, all parties, however many people are involved in the conversation. Do you find that Absolutely. Absolutely. Bring yourself into the conversation and you know, you talked about tools, you hinted at tools, you know, how do you do that? How do you start that with people? And I think one interesting thing to do, if you find that you're a people pleaser and you're a space filler, so you walk into a room, let's say it's a party, um, and let's say you've got kids in school, and so it's, it's people you don't really know that well. Sure, right. And you're hopeful to make connections with them, to bond, maybe to have someone to go to coffee with on Saturday morning to connect with over the shared experience of life and having teenagers, et cetera. Right. So you walk into the party and. If you're that people pleasing person who's trying to basically set out these, almost like fishing lines, trying to get someone to bite on them. Yeah. And you're setting all these hooks of, okay, I'm gonna, okay, the weather's too bland, so I know that this is popular in my area. I'm gonna do that. Or I know that this is popular with them. I'm gonna do that. And you're kind of setting the stage for having conversations that you may not even. Care about. So now you've started the conversation and you don't know where to go with it. There's the awkward silence. Well. Nice, nice meeting you, and you walk away and you're wondering, why am I not making friends? Why is it so hard at this stage of my life to make friends? And a big part of that is starting to reset the way we try to connect with others, even in a very casual way. Mm-hmm. To instead of trying to figure out what everyone else wants from us to show up as our authentic selves. As you said, to be very intentional and an observer and a good listener, and then decide, huh, is this someone, and this is something I really work with my children on, is this someone that I would like to spend more time with? Right? Because that is really where the magic happens, is when you meet someone that. You want to spend more time with, and that's mutual. They have this mutual experience, and it's not that you have formed. Some sort of transient conversation, right? What, what you hoped was a bond over something that doesn't really matter to you, that's not gonna be a relationship. And then you'll have invested some time, which all of us have very little of. Mm-hmm. And you'll go to coffee and you'll go home and you'll just kind of think, what, what am I doing with this? I'm not forming the connections. It just doesn't seem to work. Why is it happening? And so. When we feel that dissonance in our lives, instead of looking outward and blaming, oh, I just can't connect with this person, or that, or this, um, or maybe we're from a different social stratosphere, whatever you wanna tell yourself, it's not working. I think it can be really helpful to look inward and think, who am I showing up as And mm-hmm. Is it me? Because if I'm showing up as someone else, of course I'm not making those deep, authentic connections with people that I really want to make. Is it helpful for people to look at what you're saying and go, okay, so what friendships do I have in my life right now that I truly, truly value to help them reflect back what it is that makes that so valuable and how they can reframe themselves in new environments to be more authentic. At the end of the day. Yeah, it, it Is there something you said earlier that I don't know about how you are with coaching and with conversations like this, but for me, I'll have a phrase pop up or a visualization or color, something that really resonates with me. And it may just be the way my brain works, but something you said earlier really made me think about how we remember how someone. Makes us feel. Mm-hmm. We don't remember what they say. Right. And something you said earlier really resonated with that quote for me. And so I think a great place to start to really just kind of get rid of the, oh, well I have this connection because our kids do this together. I have this connection because you know, we did this, whatever. And to really get down to the heart of the matter of. I have X amount of time and energy. Who in my life reenergizes me rather than depletes me Because maybe I'm at, I'm at a phase in my life where I've literally nothing left to give and you and I were talking before we came on air, like I'm kind of in a place in my life where it's. I have very limited resources, and so if someone's in my orbit, it, it really needs to be something that energizes me. And I think when you take stock of not only your friendships, but what you're using your energy on in general, which is, it could be anything from as big as, do I want this big house? Yeah. Does this big house bring me joy and energize me? Or are there, is there a laundry list of things that. Drive me crazy about the fact that I have this big house. It can be from friendships to the size of your home where you live, your job. All of these are opportunities to kind of check your batteries and find out like, do I need to just change the batteries, go about this differently, or do I need to actually update. New. An update of my iOS. Right. New software. Right? Because the old system is depleting me and I need a new system. And everything you're talking about and sharing, I'm smiling from inside out because I'm, you are talking about. Looking at everything through the lens of for you, by you, because of you. And when we do this work, and I'm not even call, I don't like to call it work because I like to call it awareness and growth. Um, because when, as soon as the W words put with it, people are like, oh, but I can't do that'cause I don't have a the time, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. If we reframe and start to do it from our center. I can tell you, you know, all your clients, all the people that you touch with your work, know that when you start doing this work for you, by you because of you, your what I call sphere of influence will change around you without you having to lift a finger and make it happen because your energy speaks and it changes everything. Hmm. It does. And you know, one thing I, I notice that I don't talk about often, but I've done a short talk on my podcast. I tend to do guest episodes and then I do short talks where we talk about mindset things and also from a neuroscience perspective. The science behind that. Right. And the importance of changing our habits and changing our beliefs because those are actually wirings in us. Mm-hmm. You know, this isn't Woohoo stuff. Yeah. This is really real. It's our neuroscience, it's tracks in our brain that lead us to follow different behaviors and habits. That if we don't disrupt them, and you use that term earlier, you have to disrupt. And that's where I think when you use the term work. It is work and it's work in the sense of like a workout, but for your life, not just for your muscles, right? Workouts, when you start them, they are painful. I can remember I had a period of time where I wasn't exercising much and I had a C-section with my, my last child. So, you know, things were cut, muscles hurt, my body didn't bend the same way. It didn't feel good. Um, and then when I. Exercised really intentionally again. Yeah. Yeah. And I got my body to a place of strength. I mean, there were times where that really hurt, especially, you know, around the side of my incision. Ouch. It was really uncomfortable. But once I got past that breaking to build. Point of working out. Mm-hmm. Then I got to a place of strength and I, I will never forget. It's such a silly example, but it is the moment and it's funny'cause these are the little moments in our lives that we are assured that we're on the right path. It's the little things. It's not the big stuff, it's the little things. I was cleaning my bathtub and we have this really big, kind of unusually large, strange, uh, rectangular bathtub. And to clean it, you have to kind of like. Act like you're Spider Woman a bit. Yeah. And it was always a bit uncomfortable and strange, and I'm Spider Woman womanning over it. And I felt great, and I had great balance, and I felt strong and I could bend and move in ways that I couldn't before. And I thought, huh. This is what it's all for. It's not to look better. Yeah. It's not to lose weight. It's not for clothes to fit differently. It's so that when I am living my life, my function is so much better and more comfortable, and I have this feeling of like, wow, I can do things I couldn't do before. And it's the same with our mindset. It's, it's painful at first. Mm-hmm. To make those disruptions. But once you get through that messy middle of everything being hard and new, and you're practicing and it's awkward, and maybe you feel like I haven't done something new since I was in college or since I was in grade school. Once you get through that point and you're really living your beliefs and living authentically and in alignment with who you want to be, the feeling of. Strength and accomplishment and just, wow, if I can do that, if I can stop living that way and start living my life this way, what can I do? It's so exciting and it's worth all of the work because it it is work. It's worth the investment in you. Right, right. I love that. The investment in you. Because you are worthy of that investment. You mentioned earlier all the things we do for our children and our families and you know, there's never a second thought. If your child needs support for whatever purpose, you're on it, you will drive them. You will do without a second thought. And my goal is to help women worldwide have that same response that they would have for their children. Right. For themselves. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. Because you can't be there for your children if you're abandoning yourself. And in that moment you may feel, and I've, I've had a client who's very self abandoning and it took years, years of work. Mm-hmm. Because there was such a deeply entrenched belief that pouring. A hundred percent out of their cup and giving the cup away to their children was love. Yeah. Yeah. And it took so much time for this individual to. Have him to understand that he was modeling self abandonment. Yeah. And that is so important to try to flip that perspective. And for many of us that comes from, we were trained in early life to be very self abandoning, to show our worthiness and to earn our right to exist in our family system, for example. Right. Or in our work system, depending upon what someone's uh, circumstances were, but that's not a relationship, right. You're a tool, if that's your role in a, in a relationship. I'm using air quotes for listeners. Sure, sure. You're just a tool that's not an actual relationship. And so when you model that for your children, that the closest people to you are tools for you, and they are expected to give up everything that can go one of two ways. Mm-hmm. They can become like you. Yeah, and they can be people pleasers and overs shares over extenders and give up everything they have, which we don't want for our kids or. They can learn to expect that this is how people treat me. They give me everything and they expect nothing in return. And I have no responsibilities in our relationship and neither one of those are what we want for our children. Absolutely. And what you're saying, I think this is a golden nugget. How are you modeling because. You are being watched whether you believe it or not. And so what is it that you want to model? Do you want to model, give to exhaustion, or do you want to model, give back to myself so that I am as equal as everyone else in my sphere of influence? Yeah. Tell me, tell me, we've gotta dive into your book. I'm sitting here, we're looking at the beautiful colors. I'm this, I know it ties into the, some of the conversations we've been having. Tell us about your, yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm holding it up for listeners. If you aren't seeing the, the visual of the audio visual aspect. So I am so proud of this book. It's really a passion project for our family, and what it does is it goes through the day of a little boy who has something that's called pathological demand avoidance. So you know, when we look at things like PDA or pathological demand avoidance, so that's a behavioral profile. It's not a diagnosis. Mm-hmm. It is not unusually seen in children who have autism. So children who have. A formal diagnosis, but it doesn't have to be seen in children with autism and we see it. People who are on social media. You're probably seeing a lot about PDA because it's coming a lot on your for you page, talking about even adults that have this, this pushback that's outsized when they feel a demand or an expectation on them, and. This can manifest as something that's relatively small. So for example, looking at children like refusing to eat dinner, right? Or to sit at the table. I can tell you my son only now will actually sit and not all the time at the table. Mm-hmm. But for years he needed to stand on his chair because that expectation to sit was. Was really stressful. Yeah. And we as parents or caregivers, you can force that child to sit, but that's not really connecting and that's not really understanding the why behind why is this so important and we don't understand it. Right. It doesn't necessarily make sense to me if I don't have this behavioral profile. Right. But if we take a step back and connect with this child and try to understand how they feel in this moment. If that allows them to get through dinner, because otherwise having to sit at a certain time with a certain type of food, with certain people that maybe they'd rather not sit with, maybe they're mad at sister or whatever it is, you know? Right. There's so many demands on them in this mor in this moment, and they're choosing something they have control over. Hmm. And so what this book is about is trying to normalize or destigmatize the perspective of a child who has this behavioral profile, right? This little boy, as the title says, it's called The Boy in His Brightly Colored Blocks. Now, this little boy loves his brightly colored blocks and he dislikes anything that takes him away from them, right? And so. As we know in an average day, especially once we get to preschool age, if we have other people in the home, if we have other siblings, we have dogs. Like we have to just for ourselves, we have to eat, we have to bathe, we have to put clothes on at least before we leave the house. You know, at least a certain number of clothing that can be, like, that can be stretched a little bit, but you know, we've gotta wear certain things, right? Yeah. Um, gotta wear shoes. Um, we've got to eat and then. Oh, maybe we have to get sister from school. Maybe we have to take the dogs out. And what can happen is a lot of children who have PDA, they also may have autism. They also may have a lot of special interests. And so there can be one thing that they really hyperfocused on and that can either be a really frustrating thing for a family. You know, you can say, oh, you're this age. I really wish when I was that age, I really liked. Right. Playing outside. I like playing with sticks and running around or playing this fantasy game and all you want to do is play with your blocks or you can try to understand what this connection means for the child and you can try to use it to help them navigate the other challenges in their day. They have control over this toy. Yeah. They have control over what they do with this toy. Mm-hmm. And then when we have inevitable moments throughout the day where they don't have control, how can we use. And model how important it is for them to have this thing that they do have control over. Mm-hmm. How can we use that to model how we empower them throughout their day to have less dysregulation? Because when they feel a demand, they go into often a state of fight or flight. Right? Right. It doesn't always look like they just refuse to eat right. Or they refuse to sit in their chair. It can manifest as a tantrum. Breaking a toy or even physical violence, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. And we see this in kids, so we can call that bad behavior and go down that rabbit hole that I think at this point in time, thankfully, most of us, you know, in education and parenting, we figured out that doesn't really work. Yeah. Instead of doing that, we can try to connect with them rather than correct and figure out what's behind the behavior. Yes. And find out ways, how can I empower my child? And so one of the things in the book is. There's an itchy clothes moment, right? Yes. Mm-hmm. A lot of kids have this sensitivity. Well, mom's figured that out, right? Yeah. So she puts something on, oops, I messed up. It's itchy. Yeah. And instead of saying, no, you're wearing that'cause that's what we've got. She says this or this. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Or we need to take a bath. And you have to leave your toys, but actually you don't have to leave your toys. Do you wanna bring your toys with you? Do you wanna bring your blocks with you? Mm-hmm. And then the boy thinks about it and he's like, oh, no. Bubbles sinking the drain. Oh no, mom, I, I do not wanna take my toys with me'cause it, I might lose them. But as simple as that sounds, mom has made it his decision and empowered him to make a reasonable decision.'cause kids can make really reasonable decisions. Given the opportunity and if we help them stay as much as we can, not gonna happen all the time. Mm-hmm of course. But try to help them stay in a place of regulation.'cause if we push the issue and try to counter control with further control, we are just gonna get into that fight or flight stage where we're not learning, we're not connecting, they're not gonna do the thing we want them to do. And we're not gonna feel good about what transpired between us. I was gonna say it's a no win situation. Totally no win. Yeah. Nobody, yeah. I, I absolutely love what you are saying in two things that came up for me. Correction. Versus connection. Let's flip it and make sure we've got that connection piece. And one of the things that I remember so vividly was my role as that behavior resource teacher and principal, um, was the why behind I. Behavior because there is a reason for everything that people do. It's just trying to uncover where that's actually coming from, that source so that you can, like your book sounds amazing and I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of it. We've got three grand, four grandchildren now, so I might be ordering quite a few. Oh, thank you. I would love to hear what they think about it. One thing I will say that my experience reading it with children, with the advanced copies I have, you know, I take one in in my bag with me and I'll pull it out and just kind of, sure. Oh mom, dad, do you mind if I read this with your kids and kind of see what they think and. The experience that I have with children is they just love the boy. They think he's so funny and they see themselves in the boy. And these are children who may not have autism. Yeah, they may not have PDA, but this allows them to see this boy who is having these really big emotions and it's illustrated in such a beautiful, colorful way. Mom is calm, mom is creating a space of acceptance. Yeah. And so these children are seeing, oh, okay, that's not a bad kid. No. Yeah. That's a kid who's having a feeling. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And he is moving through it. And, and so it's, it's really fun not only to read for kids who see themselves. Like a replica in the boy. Right.'cause they think it's hilarious and they love it. Sure. But children who can have empathy. Yeah. For their friends who are having this behavior, instead of coming home and saying, you know, oh, Timmy was being bad today at school. They may come home and say, Timmy was having a big emotion today and Exactly. We were able to help them. I love that. And you know, the thing that I'm seeing a connection to is we as adults have big emotions too. Thank you very much. Yes, yes. And, and so we can absolutely take a look at that and go, okay, so do I need where, what's going on? Where did that come from? Because sometimes those big emotions, you don't even recognize what's going on if you haven't done. That infamous work we've been talking about. So thank you so much for this conversation. So good. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And I think that's one of the things that I hope that the mother will also give a big hug, a, a virtual hug to yes. Families that are reading it to say, Hey, you're doing a great job. You know, mom makes mistakes in here too. She does things that make him angry that she quote unquote should, if we're gonna use that. Horrible word. Aw. Should have known better, right? She makes mistakes too. But she respond. She responds calmly. And I think it's so important that when we are around people who are dysregulated, that we learn as we have, you know, to circle back to the top of our conversation, to stay really centered and who we are, stay in control of our own nervous system. And if we're feeling that we wanna counter control. I look that at that as a really challenging C. That's not the CI wanna be in the counter control. Yeah. I want to say instead of, Ooh, I feel that control. I feel those emotions. I feel even my blood pressure going up, my heart rate going up, I'm maybe my respiratory rate's going up. I feel my body is trying to meet you and kind. Mm-hmm. In this moment, I wanna stay centered in who I am and recognize those emotions are yours. So that's the moment where I lean out. Yes. And say, I see you. I see how you feel. And I leave myself out of it because if I lean in and bring myself into it and we just start mirroring each other, it's that it's that vicious cycle and it's not going to get us to connection. Absolutely. And do you. My experience because I used to do a lot of training in crisis prevention intervention as a trainer. And so what you're talking about is bringing me right back to no matter what's happening, we can help mirror others to come down to a calm level and then look at what we need to look at after. But right now, let's just keep everybody safe and. That you have a lot of opportunity to help change the direction in the course to help another self-regulate when I love what you're saying, you lean back instead of in. So thank you for that. Oh, it's my pleasure. And, and even with something starting with simple things, like even changing the tone of your voice, the volume of your voice, or. The rate of your speech. You know, there are little ways that you can try to maintain who you are and how you feel in those moments, and so we can find little things that work for us to try to stay centered. Love it. Love it. Thank you so much. I knew there was this. Gonna be an amazing conversation and it has been that and more we have in our show notes how people can get connected to you, how to get the book, all of the good things. Are there any words of wisdom which you haven't already shared?'cause I know you've got so much. Anything you want to share with our audience before we say goodbye? I know we've, we've used a lot of tools and, and some nice quotes today. For me, especially in midlife, we've done a lot of growing in our lives, right. And we've developed in a certain way, but as we said earlier, you know, sometimes we have to take a step back and say, is this. Is this who I really am and can I continue to grow where I am with the current environment I have? Or am I going to get stunted, almost like a plant in a box? And so one thing I always try to encourage listeners and clients to do is if you can't grow where you are, go where you can grow. So I hope everyone who's listening now, especially as we are in spring, and we are literally. Seeing the world blossom around us. Take a look at yourself and your life. Are you blossoming? And if you're not and you can't grow where you are, where can you grow? Where can you go? So that is possible. Thank you so much. Where can you go to grow for you? By you because of you, it is time to thrive after 45. So thank you again, Dr. Schafer, for spending this time with us today. I wish you all the best. And to our listeners, make sure you press that follow and like button. Please give reviews if resonates with you, and we will see you on the next show. Goodbye everyone.