What NOT to Say At A Funeral - with Barbara Bowman

Barbara Bowman - author, speaker, and real-life grief whisperer - is turning some of the most awkward, heart-wrenching moments around death into opportunities for connection, compassion, and deep humanity.

She has lived through unimaginable loss, and instead of hardening...she softened. 

She stayed open. 
She paid attention. 

And she turned all of it into wisdom you can actually use - especially in those moments when you're fumbling for the right words, trying to show up for someone, or wondering if it’s better to just stay away.

This conversation is equal parts hilarious (yes, we talk about the woman who wore a trampy dress to a funeral) and deeply healing.

We get into the real stuff - like what not to say when someone’s grieving, how to avoid those well-meaning-but-damaging platitudes, and why “I know how you feel” is probably the worst thing you can say.

Barbara shares so many lightbulb moments around how we show up for each other during life’s hardest times. 

This episode should honestly be required listening for all humans. 

Her heart, humor, and honesty are such a gift.

You’ll hear us riff on:

• Why comparison is the quickest way to make someone feel unseen in their grief
• The silent damage of “doing nothing”
• How to repair relationships when you feel like you messed it up
• Why your awkwardness isn’t the problem - disappearing is
• And how you can be the person who shows up with compassion, presence, and love… even when you don’t have the perfect words

Barbara’s guide What Not to Do at Funerals is a must-have. It’s short, punchy, and packed with grace (and a few spicy anecdotes). If you’ve ever wondered what to say, how to help, or how to not be remembered for the wrong reasons - get this book, like....yesterday.

Listen in, take notes, and share this one with someone you care about. We all need this kind of wisdom in our back pocket.

🎧 Barbara's book What Not to Do at Funerals is available on Amazon.
✨ To learn more or connect with Barbara, visit www.bowheart.com
 

Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.

And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!

Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.

Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to Thrive After 45, the podcast where we redefine what's possible in midlife. I'm Denise. Drink your midlife renewal coach here to help you embrace your power, purpose, and potential. This is your space to let go of guilt, navigate transitions, rediscover joy and thrive for you by you. Because of you, we are. Honored. Honored and it is a true privilege to introduce and welcome Barbara Bowman to thrive after 5 45 today. Barbara is a deeply compassionate author and speaker whose work on modern grief. Has been shaped by a lifetime of profound personal loss and a calling to help others feel seen, understood, and less alone in the midst of it with grace and honesty, she offers guidance through the quiet discomfort so many of us feel around death and grief, helping people find the right words, meaningful ways to show up. And space to simply be present when someone is hurting. Her insight is tender, timely, and filled with hard earned wisdom. And we're truly, truly grateful to have you, Barbara, here with us on Thrive after 45. So great to have you here today. Oh, well, no, my pleasure is mine. Thank you so much. That was that. That was a beautiful. How grateful I'm for those words. That was very nice of you to say. You're more than all and I won't deny any of it, but nope. And, and nor should you, my dear, nor should you. I love your energy. I have to say that right from the, uh, from the get go. As soon as I hear about grief and death and passing, a lot of us go into the sadness of all of that, and we're. Going to explore very challenging conversations that can happen around grief and death and dying, but we're not gonna do it in such a way that it pulls all of us down because you have got so much. Incredible, um, guidance and wisdom behind you on how to help people find words. When words seem to be lost during times of grief and sorrow. What happens or what happens as people. Try to digest and figure out what's the right thing to say. Have you noticed anything that's kind of common that happens with people? Oh, sure. Yeah. There's, there's a couple of very common situations that happen. If one is not familiar with grief, they haven't really lost any, anyone in their life yet. They'll often completely pull away, we'll, I'll just deal with them when, when they feel better, the awkwardness around what not to do. They become so self-focused. Ah, that they just separate, not realizing that that's probably the worst thing you can do. Mm-hmm. And then the second thing that is often really very common and often causes mistakes or in relationships that have to be mended, is the comparison. You know, I lost. My grandmother, so I know how you must feel that you lost your son or your spouse. No, you don't. Yeah, no, you don't. The comparison, grief makes people feel like you don't understand my grief for what I'm going through. Because even though I do believe that there, there's a hard line between people who have grieved and people who haven't grieved. Okay. With personal loss, I mean like not, you know, grieving a job or. Different, right. Kind of personal loss that is an experience that you now have in your life that you'll never have had before you, so you can't really explain it to someone. Right. But the secondary miscon misconception happens when the relationship of what's lost is so different to each person. Yes. So when, my example, if you had a grandmother that died and you're younger and she was always very elderly and older, and then she was ill and you expected it. That goes along the traditional lines of life and death and you're, you're, you've always waited for the step and you're sad because you miss, you're, you know, you're Meemaw, um, right. But that, that depth is nowhere in comparison to a daily relationship you have with someone who may have died spontaneously through, especially a younger person, through a drug overdose or a suicide car accident. These are so much more traumatic. And more deeply felt right. Um, especially to someone who's in that immediate family. And there's a, that the idea that it can be different and that's when people feel really like, you just don't get me. And now that friendship may be severed and I just don't want that to happen to anyone. Right, right. But so there's a lot of ways to get around that. Yeah, and I think that's one of the things in the book that we talk, that I talk about is to make, don't make that mistake. Don't compare. Just be there for them in their grief. And don't, even though you wanna feel like I, I understand you really don't. Mm-hmm. You can understand in another way, but not in a comparison. Really, really like what you're saying in terms of that comparison piece. How do we take it from it being about us? To move the needle to make it about being about them? Or how do we, yeah. How do we do that? Or is that important? I think it's incredibly important.'cause it's not about you at all. Mm-hmm. Well, the only way it really tends to be about, um, the support person is what kind of person do you wanna be? What kind of friend do you wanna be? What kind of, what kind of boss do you wanna be? What kind of neighbor do you wanna be? That is the only place it really has to do with you is the do unto others reflection. Love, love that. Besides that, it really has to do with honoring and respecting, gonna honor the per the person's life that passed. And that has nothing to do with, with, with your life or your discomfort or your confusion and being, um, I'm respectful of what the wishes and the family member, um, friend or colleague expects to do. By that maybe you have a colleague at work who's, someone has passed, but they're not, they're of a different religious sect and you don't understand what to do. Fair. You still have to, maybe they have, maybe they're lucky because they have a um, background, which tells them they're going to grieve for a certain amount of time, or they get certain amount of days, or they have to do certain protocols, which in America and many Western cultures, we've lost that, which is why we're so confused and need help. How do you respect those, the wishes of the mourner and be honorable of the griever? Both of those things need to take you out of your comfort zone. Mm-hmm. And you should be really proud to do that. Hmm. You should be like, I'm gonna, this is gonna be good. I'm gonna be the best person I can be. That I love, love that. The two ways that I think about it. Yeah. Really, really love that. Um, I. It, it, it's not something that people normally practice either, is it? Well, not here. They don't, there are no, there are some countries that are pretty lucky where they have, you know, their ethnic background and geographic background cause them to have similar, uh, rituals and ceremonies that the entire neighborhood, city, country. They all do. They res and they respect, so that expectation has been set out for them. Right? In today's world, that's those countries and those areas are pretty far and few in between. Now we have multicultural, we have after CO where people just stopped having anything, right? What do we do? We have, you know, millennials who yeah, do this. And will not go, go, oh, I need to get a card. You know, which they're, they often can be kind of emotionally detached. Right. So we've, we have so many different varieties of what people could do. Right. We don't really know what to do. Yes. And having those toolbox of saying, here's some options, make perfect, make you a better person and have better relationships.'cause it's gonna happen. Right. You can't get around these things. Right, exactly. Because if you do nothing. That's doing something. If you do something that's doing something correct, it is if you do nothing. Yeah. Almost everyone I've ever spoken to Yeah. Said they know who didn't show up. Mm-hmm. You think they won't miss me? I do. Yeah. Um, and that is probably, I think, one of the most selfish things you can do. I mean, if you're not gonna show up for something. Or if they do have a, um, a celebration of life, a memorial service, any kind of person ceremony, and you knew that person, you better have a pretty bad stomach flu with a doctor's note. Yeah. Because yeah, right. I know folks that have said, well, I just can't be around dead people, so I can't go at any of those things. I'm like, well, it really is about you. Yeah. And how and how do you know they're gonna have an open casket? How come you can't go over here? You don't have to do that. Right. So it, they use it as an excuse, just not to be supportive, I think. And I've seen so many people, I have to say in my, what keeps the bills on? I mean, how, I mean what pays the bills, keeps lights on. Yeah. Is. You know, I have a, I have a, um, a med spa I do every day. I take care of people's skin and I do all the aging things, mostly red dots, barnacles, veins, and that means we are sitting in a room mm-hmm. For probably 35 minutes to an hour. Just me and one other person. And I'll have these clients as we get older, these clients, they become long-term clients. And because my clients, well, many of them will know that I've had an exceptional amount of death in my family. Mm-hmm. Um, when they have a passing, it gives them an opportunity. We call it the chair of truth. They'll come in and say, I'll say, you know how I knew your mom had, had, had passed, you know, a month or a couple months ago? How, how's everything? Oh my goodness. You wouldn't believe. I would say 85% of the time, the first thing they say is, oh, guess what happened? Oh no. You know what happened? You know what someone did, you know what my sister-in-law did? You know, someone showed up. Can you believe this guy? And it's always this complaint, oh, almost always of things that have gone wrong that they didn't expect. People would've acted or responded in a certain way. And it really does stick with people. Mm-hmm. Um, so having so many of these conversations. Dozens and dozens over the years for sure. Uh, we just needed to have a toolbox mm-hmm. For people to pull out different i different opportunities and just ways to make it smoother and easier for them. Right. It's amazing how the memory really picks those things out, and you never wanna be that person. Hmm. That they're thinking about that they're gonna tell later you about, right? Oh yeah. Did Jimmy marry that girl that she wore that Trampy dress to Uhuh Aunt Sue's funeral And she Oh yeah. They got married three years ago. Oh, so he married the Trampy one. She's gonna be remembered. It's a moment. You don't wanna be, you don't wanna be the person that sucks the life or the energy. Ah. And makes the spotlight on you, right. Uh, so, so, so good. Okay, so now my mind is reeling. What do we do? How, how do we get this information? You mentioned about a toolbox. How do we find our toolbox? Well, the toolbox that I've written yes, is a little, a little guide called what not to do at funerals, you know, at. So it's a way to perfect, protect you from eternal embarrassment. And it's on Amazon, it's only about 60 pages, and it's written to be quick and punchy and memorable because if you can get it quickly and you can download it on, on a candle, then you can yeah, can guide it, go through it, send it to a, um, a family member or a loved one and say, here's some ideas. Please don't let your kids screw this up. Right. And come out shining greatly. But it's it's way they can get it quick and they'll remember it and this way they'll share it. Mm, yeah. And this way, and, and that was the most important thing, was to be able to have these quick, punchy tools mm-hmm. Where they can flip through and feel like they have it under control. Mm-hmm. Now I have some options Right now, I'm not gonna be too awkward and now if I see someone else doing something, yes. I can help cover for them. Right? It all becomes about relationships.'cause this is one where you can really build new, build longer lasting relationships because you showed up in a way that was honoring and respectful and you helped other people love that. Yeah. They, that's, that's very, that's the ultimate kind thing to do when someone is of course looking, people are going through things that are really difficult. Mm-hmm. So, so it's pretty easy, but relationships. So how can somebody even repair a relationship after making, let's say, a funeral faux pa or falling short of a griever's expectations? There's a couple of ways you can do this, and it's so. Really, it's very easy to do. Yay. We like ease of all. Just own it. Just own it. Just own it. You know? We all, we all screw up. Just own it. Let, and if they get upset, that's okay too. Yeah. Let's say, and here's a, I mean, there's a couple quick examples being like, yeah, funeral happens all the time. People get nervous. Um, I had someone say they were in the, they were in the pew and they're. Their aunt, the sister of their uncle that had died was giving a very heartfelt eulogy and they started talking a memory of their uncle doing something funny and they started laughing and they got the evil eye and they're mortified. You just have to walk, walk right up to her afterwards and say, mm-hmm. Always remember it's the relationship. Yes. And I can't remember her name and, and, uh, I'm so sorry for laughing. We were talking about Uncle Joe's. At Easter and every time he put that jelly bean up his nose, and I wonder if he still has a jelly bean up his nose right now and we love him so much and all. And so now you're thinking of it's about him. It's about the life and love that he gave. Right? You weren't joking about someone's hair. You go up and apologize. Tell him how much you love that, that person and that you love them. And hug and that's it. Yeah, it's over. Yeah. They know it wasn't about them. If you didn't show, and I had a friend who I thought would show and she didn't show. She dropped off some food the i the day after my son died and she didn't show up again and she was one of my best friends. And she has never forgotten his birthday. She's never forgotten a big Christmas. She's, every time we see her, she'll remind me of him years later. She's one of the few people that says, that, still thinks about him and thinks about his birthday. I. Thinks about, um, that I'm gonna remember his birthday. No one does that. So she wasn't there in the moment, but she's been there in the long haul. So if you thought, wow, later on I've read Barb's book and I've realized, wow, maybe this is why they never really talked to me so much anymore. You know, I thought I was just giving them space or I didn't know what to do, but I did drop off food. But now Barb doesn't, now she doesn't talk to me anymore, will show up. Mm-hmm. Memories. Mm-hmm. Keep that person alive and it's someone we love and anyone who ever brings up my brother, or there were dog stories we talk about our dogs had passed, someone goes, this is a way to reconnect and regrow a relationship that might feel like it was burnt to ashes. But there's always things that can grow from that. And memories and kindness continually is fantastic. You know, that's, and then the last one is probably. You know, if you have said something that you realize later, I shouldn't have said it. Mm-hmm. You don't always know what to say. Right. Thing I find one issue I have with Grievers mm-hmm. We get, we get, we don't have a lot of forgiveness sometimes for people who just don't know they're doing the best they can. They, they wanna say how you're doing. Mm-hmm. And the, and the griever all of a sudden. Of the level of grief they're going through gets really angry and says, what the hell? Yeah. What do you mean? How am I doing? I'm doing terrible. What do you think? Oh my gosh. What do you do? Right? You ask them, you say, I just, this is a great line. Just let them know. I've been thinking about you. And I know you're going through a hard time and I don't know how to check in with you. Could you tell me what to do? Hmm. If I've been thinking about you and I'm worried about you, I'm concerned about, I know it's difficult. I just don't, what's the best way I can check in? It's all about your heart and your relationship. Your words weren't the words they needed. The words frustrated them. You came at the wrong time, and they slammed the door in your face.'cause they didn't know want. They didn't want you to see their ugly cry. Right. Or give them, yeah, just go. Let me try again. Mm-hmm. Put your big boy pants on, put your boots on and go, I'm gonna pursue this again with an apology because I care about them. Right. Let them know I'm caring. Tell me what to do. Mm-hmm. I may have not said the right words, but it was, but I just am worried about you. That's it. Yeah. I may have showed up with the wrong time, but I'm really worried I'm gonna come back and just mow your lawn when you're not there. Yeah. Yeah. It's real quick. It's a two step. Yeah, and I guarantee you, I can pretty much guarantee you I, I know I say pretty much, but I feel like almost could say guarantee if you double show up for someone, yeah, you'll be the star. You have now pushed everything aside and said, I'm here for you. If you're in the ugly, I'm here for you. If it's not appropriate, I will still press in because you matter more to me and the relationship matters more to me then, you know, screw ups. Yeah. And aren't you the bigger person? Mm-hmm. Aren't you a cool person? Yeah. I couldn't think of anything less selfish. Yeah. Than putting your pride aside and trying again. Yeah. I want all those people in my life. For sure, a hundred percent. The people who can take themselves out of the equation and do what you've been talking about. Where's your kindness? Where's your compassion? Where is your ability to put you aside and be there for them? What is it they need and where can you meet them at that right? Absolutely. And they may not know. Like, Hmm. Yeah. And so expecting people to know, and this is a great little thing about the book, let's say you screwed up. Here's some ideas you can get to fix it. And you'd be like, oh man, maybe that wasn't as big a lifetime screw up as I thought. Nice. That's a good thing. Yeah. And because people don't know. Yeah. I mean, I can tell you from, from the experience and from the, the many groups that I've been a part of, of Grievers is that, um. We've had grief that we mo move through fairly quickly. Yep. Um, though we never really get rid of it, we just, it doesn't bring us down as much anymore. Right. But as long as you love someone, as long as you miss someone, you're gonna grieve a little all the time. Mm-hmm. You just get comfortable with it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just part of it. Right. Uh, just part of life. Um, not knowing it can be really scary. Right. Yeah. It could be, it can be really scary and you might take that out Yeah. On, on the people around you. Mm-hmm. And to just give yourself a break. Right. You know, you've never been this person before and you've never been experienced these things before, and it's, and it's normal to feel awkward for both, both parties. Right, right. Yeah. And it's okay to feel a little, a little lost. It's totally okay. And if you have some tools to say, Hey, I'm, other people are obviously lost too. Yeah. And taking that expectation of off yourself, right. Um, then you all end up much better people. Right. And then the next time around it's easier.'cause I hate to say it, you know, as we get older, these are gonna come more often and then you become a pro pretty quick. Yeah, exactly. You mentioned about the book being on Amazon. I know for sure we've gonna put all that in the show notes, but if you can tell us the exact title again of the toolbox that we need to purchase. We were talking earlier before we started and said, you know how when we were having children and there was the book, what to Expect When You're Expecting, and everybody had that. I. I probably, if I look up on my bookshelf, I probably still have it up here. We need to have the toolbox that you have created exactly the same way it needs to be in every household because it should. This is part of life is departure and death. It is and, and learning how to be there for others is amazing because you set an expectation and so it's what not to do at funerals. There you go, what not to do at funeral. I mean, it's great to have, it's just great to have it around for generations. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. It, there are a lot of punchy anecdotes in it really for a younger generation. Yeah. Um, because honestly, even, even though everybody can kind of use this. The under 35 group really needs it. Yeah. I think they're, they're even more lost. So it's just great to have around, and I'm starting to work with some funeral homes to help put, put it out there. Nice. But it just makes life so much easier when you go, okay, I know what to do. Yeah. You know, I know how to be, not to be, not to be afraid. Right. Yeah. Uh, I mean, we, we, as we get older, we get less, hopefully we get less afraid of life. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But that doesn't always mean that we become better people. Right? Yeah. Very good. And so this is a way maybe to do both, right? Because it doesn't always mean that the per one person who shows up at the memorial service who's crying louder than anybody else because they're a drama queen, and they have to be the center of attention, Uhhuh, maybe you have someone in the, in your immediate family that walks over and goes. Let's go over here. Can I bring you? Yeah. Obviously you seems a little too upset to be here. Yeah. Why don't I take you into the bathroom? She'll be quite quiet like this. Yeah. Yeah. But you need a person like that. And then if you can laugh about it ahead of time. Mm-hmm. Know they're gonna show up. Right. Have a game plan. Yep. Everything goes smoother. Right. And I love what you're saying too, because. Whether you know they're gonna show up or not, there might be somebody else that comes in with the same profile, the same thing that you don't even know who they are, but you need to circumvent to help change the energy in that room so that it is a supportive environment. So you can take the information in this incredible, easy to read toolbox that you've created, and you've got it in your back pocket for. All kinds of scenarios. Right. Oh, that's so true. Absolutely. A lot of these, a lot of these will work in a, in many different situations. Right. You know, I think we are just a, we're just a people that have often forgot about the basics. Yeah. There it is. And we overcomplicate things. Then we end up lying. And you know, maybe a little fib or whatever. We're trying to make ourselves look better and really people like us when we don't look so good. Yeah. People love our houses when they're messy. Yeah. And they love us when our hair isn't right. And if we miss a button, they love us even more. And if you don't zip up your pants, your friends forever. Yeah. But people love it to know that you're normal. Yeah. And so when these are normal things, they're normal mistakes. Yeah. But they're all survivable. Right, exactly. We just can't take ourselves too seriously though. These are very serious situations. Of course, yeah. People will get very upset. It's also a book people should kind of read before a, a service. Yeah. Yep. Good point. Sometimes you have an extended family, uh, you know, cousins and and whatnot, and they may not be in the receiving line if they do a receiving line or they may not be a part of the eternal life, or Yep. Sometimes it's just the front row. It's nice to have someone who's a secondary, um, or tertiary family member. Yes. To be a watcher for things. Maybe someone coming in late. Right. You know, uh, someone who's got children maybe start crying or love the echo in the church if it's or, or, sure. Like not now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone to help manage some of these things that can happen. Right. And just to help things move a little smoother. And I've done that. I've done that at, at, at a couple of, of mm-hmm. Services. Yeah. Someone come in and. You see that it's making someone more upset. Right. They don't know what to say or do. They don't know how to get away from this person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and inevitably the person will try to pull up a chair next to them and wanna sit down. You're like, oh, you're just making it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Read the room. Read the room. I've got it. Yep. I know there's people who just. But, and, and absolutely. I mean, that's what makes the world go round. However, the tips and strategies that you have give you an opportunity to see how you can be that support. How can you help make this, um, less stressful? How can you impact in a way that makes everything go more smoothly in whatever way that can be? How are gonna show up? Exactly. And people don't know how to show up even when they write a card. I find out the two biggest questions that I get Okay. Are, what can I say other than I'm sorry. Like, I just wanna say, I'm sorry. I wanna say I'm sorry. And people on the other side say, I heard that so many times. I don't wanna say I'm sorry. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and do I really have to go? How can I, how can I get out of going to an event? And that's, that's easy. You can't Yep. Yep. So you can't No. Go. Yep. Yep. There's your answer. Summit flu, hospital, car accidents. You gotta, you gotta be completely incomp. Incapacitated. Or you better just, you know, change your name. Yeah. Facebook page. Get a new, get a new zip code. Get a new postal code. Yep. But I, I think in, if I could take all the options that I have in the book of things to say, and there's even more, I'll probably add a few more on, I believe. When if, do you wanna find something other than, I'm sorry. Say anything about the person, if it was a person at work or really Miss Joe at work, he was always a good, it was always a good joke. You know, I always had a great joke for the day. Yeah. Something personal. That's all it matters. Yeah. You know, I'm hurting every time I think about it. That's not, it's not a comparison. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The first thing that comes to mind is really the best thing. Mm-hmm. As long as it's not like, I wonder how they died or, you know, something appropriate. The first thing, people always forget the first thing because it just doesn't seem, it seems too real, right? It seems personal because it makes them sad. I was gonna say it, it probably makes them connected to their sadness, which is what we talked about in the beginning. It's not about you, it's about the other person. But you're reframing that all together to help it make a connection so they can hear the impact that person has had in your life. Right? Yes. If you say, I'm, you know, I'm hurting every time I think of you guys. Mm-hmm. And now you're sharing in their grief and they know you. Yeah. That, that. You care for them. Yeah. That's a supportive, perfect way of saying it. I love it. So anything like that, you've, I can't stop thinking about about you right now. I, I'm so sad and I'll continue to think about you forever. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. The first thing in your mind is always the best. And it's surprises to me how many people don't think that's what they should write. Yeah. So, great. Great. Information. It's about the relationship. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much, Barbara, for this conversation was we don't mess around here. There's so much more. So there's so many goofy things that happen and so it's, you know, it's, it's a fun quick little read. It's, you know, the what not to do at funerals is, it's really, I think it's. It's getting more and more popular and the conversations are fun. Yeah, and, and honestly, I. The fact that you have gone through so much loss in your life and you are able to help others show up for other people who are going through challenging times with grief and death is so, so valuable, and I am so grateful. Our paths have crossed to have this snippet conversation. We will. Come back together again. I know it. I know there's other things coming in the near future that you are busy creating and crafting right now, because I love your ideas of make it simple. Don't make this such a big deal, but do it properly. Yeah. Right. I'm, I have to tell you, I can't, when someone says, you look at, um, you know, here's three things you should say every day to make your life easier, and then you look down at the corner of the little video and it says 45 minutes click. If, why can't you tell me that in five minutes? It's only three words. Just give me the information. Yeah. And let me start in on it. Yeah. I, I am, I hate to say it, and maybe your colleagues will, will realize this. I'm an American, we don't read instructions until we can't find all the schools. I just, I just know how to do it. Just lemme jump in and start, gimme the, you know, the tools that I need with Yeah. Without the drama and I can use them to the best of my ability. And it's quick and simple and then life goes on hopefully better. Exactly. And if you need more, you can find out how to reach you. Right? Like if they need more information or absolutely need to ask you specific questions, you can go to bohart.com. Yeah. Um. The information's also, you know, what not to do at Funerals Loss Amazon, but also@bohart.com where I'll, um, start have some other books and presentation information and things like that. Nice. They can find, if they have any questions, they can always email me or contact me through there, and I'd be thrilled to get back to them. Perfect. Good or bad, I can't wait. Exactly. Exactly. Thank you so much for your time today, Barbara. It's always a pleasure to see your smiling face on the other side of our screen. Okay. Make sure that you follow Thrive after 45 so you don't miss. Any of these nuggets of gold that are shared, and we have such a variety of guests, it has been an honor and a privilege to share space today with Barbara and her wisdom behind being real around death and grief, and supporting people to move in the way that is best for them. It's not about you. How could you show up and support others? In their grief. Take care of yourselves. Make sure you do something for you by you because of you today and every day, and we will see you on the next show. Goodbye everyone.