How to Embrace Defiant Joy and Play By New Rules with Tania Carriere

Alright, friend! Grab your favorite mug and snuggle in, because this week’s episode of Thrive After 45™ is going to spark something incredible in you. 

I had the absolute honour of chatting with Tania Carriere, an "epiphany designer" who has dedicated over 30 years to helping others live their fullest lives. Seriously, she’s amazing.

Tania and I talked about everything from her childhood adventures creating plays for sheep on her family farm to how she completely defied a mentor who told her being a "professional best friend" wasn't a real career. 

Spoiler alert: She proved him wonderfully wrong!

We dive deep into how travel and theater became the unexpected catalysts for her unique approach to transformative retreats. It's all about stepping out of your current context to truly see yourself and the world in a new light.

And lemme tell ya, what she calls "Defiant Joy" is a concept we all need to embrace, especially as we navigate midlife and beyond. It’s about insisting on joy, vision, and abundance, even when the world tries to tell you otherwise.

Tania truly believes joy isn't something you earn after all the hard work; it's an action, a mindset, a choice, and even a political statement. We are all deserving of joy from the moment we are born.

She also shares exciting details about her upcoming retreats, including "Sanctuary of Self" in Quebec City this October, focused on finding solace within yourself, and "Reimagine Self" in Baja, Mexico this November, where you can shed old archetypes and explore who you dare to be now. And if travel isn't in the cards right now, she offers online experiences too.

This conversation is such a beautiful reminder that life is meant to be exciting, and it’s up to us to reach for that excitement. It's never too late to ask yourself, "Who do you dare to be now?".

You can connect with Tania and explore her incredible work through the links here:
Website: www.advivumjourneys.ca

Linked IN https://www.linkedin.com/in/taniacarriere/?originalSubdomain=ca

With love from The Heart Whisperer....

Denise

Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.

And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!

Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.

Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to Thrive After 45, the podcast where we redefine what's possible in midlife. I'm Denise, drink Walter, your midlife renewal coach here to help you embrace your power, purpose, and potential. This is your space to let go of guilt, navigate transitions, rediscover joy and thrive for you by you because of you. It is an absolute honor and a privilege to introduce and welcome Tanya Carrier to the show today. Tanya is an epiphany designer, the founder and artistic director of Aviva's Journeys, and a woman who has dedicated over 30 years to helping others step in. To their fullest expression of life. She weaves together her background in psychology, executive coaching, leadership development, and theater to create transformative retreat experiences that invite you to see yourself. The world in a completely new way. Her work is a very unique blend of theater, consulting, disruption, and heartfelt friendship, all infused with Grace, adventure and Joie de Viv. Whether leading a virtual retreat or guiding travelers to breathtaking destinations, Tanya helps. People embrace discovery, celebration, and bold possibility. She traveled to over 77 countries, served thousands through her writing and retreats, and is on the board of Queen of Retreats, and is an adjunct faculty member at the Modern Elder Academy. Her TEDx talk, who do you dare to be now, has inspired audiences worldwide to live courageously and intentionally. Tanya. I am so thrilled to have you here. Welcome to our show today. Thank you, and it's so beautiful. Everyone should experience someone reading those kinds of words about them. Thank you so much. That's a really rare treat and it's, I think it's pretty rare that we allow ourselves to take center stage like that. So I'm, I'm gonna accept the gift. Thank you so much. It is my pleasure. And when I was looking over everything and we've chatted, which I do with any of my guests that come on my show, we always connect and see if our energy is aligned and if our messaging is totally on point, which it is. And it is absolutely incredible to hear. Like I watched your TED Talk, how empowering people. Go and watch the TED Talk. We'll make sure it's in the show notes. It's incredible your gift of sharing your experiences in a way that lights a spark. Was incredible to me. So how in the world did this become your way of being? Can you remember the beginnings of it? Is there something that makes you go, oh yeah, Denise, I can tell you. I think I can tell you. It's so funny. Oh, there you go. Yeah, and no one's asked me that before, but the answer was like, whew, I got it. I do remember being a, a kid and being full of this sense of adventure and curiosity and story and everything was always an, uh, a scavenger hunt. You know, something led to something else, but I grew up in the country. So there's no one around me. Two beautiful, wonderful, introverted parents. So I was always just a little bit too much for them. And um, I had to find ways to really amuse myself and weave all of these things together. So I. I have this distinct image of, you know, creating theater productions for our sheep.'cause I lived on a farm, you know, and just going off and having conversations with the trees and, but it's when you're interacting, you know, and really just. Feeling what is coming and going and taking inspiration from all around you. That is somehow what got baked into me and I have remained that kind of adventurer, uh, since then. I love that. Was it a surprise to your parents to see how you have grown over the years, or did they see. Yeah, I think, I don't think it was a surprise. Okay. I think it was more like, oh, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of that going on all the time, you know? Yeah. I think what's a surprise is they didn't think I could ever make a career outta Mm. You know, I had started my world in, um, public policy, worked at the House of Commons, and then, um, as a consultant and I had a mentor, and I remember this conversation. I know you're gonna love this given what you and I both do. Yeah. Conversation with him about, you know, what my career should be and what I should do next. And you know, there was a very sort of steady forward kind of attitude and um, I remember saying, but you know, there's something that I'm super gifted at. I am super gifted at being that friend that will sit on the other side of the coffee table. And through stories and discoveries, I'll be able to like just catch the little fireflies that go by and by the end of coffee, you're gonna leave just. Loving whatever you are or you want or is ahead of you. And so I could be this professional best friend, and I remember my mentor looking at me and saying. That is not a life path. You cannot do that as a career. And that was the end of it. At that time. It was the end of it. I was like, I, I can't, but I'm so good at that. And here we are, you know, here we're in this world now where, you know, the whole. Globe has been introduced to the concept of a coach and the power of someone walking by you and asking questions and helping you reformulate and reframe through story, right? I mean, we now know it's probably the best profession there is. So I love you dear mentor, but um, yeah, you were wrong. Isn't, isn't that incredible? Because. I know my audience is putting their hand up going, oh my gosh, I had the same conversation, and so I shut and clammed up. I shut down. I put that not even on the back burner anymore. I'm like, well, because I admire their fortitude, their ability to see all the things they see. How did you then go from that and still keep that fire inside? Is that because of who you are or do you think there were other pieces that came together for you in that? Making this your reality. Yeah, I think that's where two passions that I have sustained and fueled me, and then eventually collided and, you know, created what I have now as as a business. But, you know, my passion for traveling really came first simply because I knew that there was more to discover in this world than what I was being shown. And as you know, I. I was discovering, and I've told this story before, but you know, the, the fact that toilets flush differently in all these different countries, spaghetti is different in all these different countries. You know, the way that people gather is different and so meaningful, and each place I traveled showed me that the thing that I was being taught as the way was just. One way, right. That. Gave me permission to say thank you for the way that you're sharing with me. I will put it in the, you know, little, little hamper with the rest, you know? Yeah. I'll not believe that there is only one way and I will trust, you know, my, also my inner sense of, well that is a way, but it doesn't seem to serve me in me being my higher self. Mm-hmm. You know, what my mentor was telling me was a truth, right? It wasn't serving me in me being my higher self. I knew I had something else to give and so I had to trust that little instinct. Yeah. And then theater was this other world, which for the longest time, I treated as something separate from my, you know, professional, personal self. Right? Then there was this theater self over there, and. Theater showed me through story that we can be many people. You know, when I'm on stage, I have the opportunity to think like someone else, to act like someone else, not to be Tanya and bound by her scripts and her rules. To see through other eyes. And I realized, wow, if that's true on the stage, that could be true anywhere. Yeah, that could be true. Anytime I walk down the street, I can be somebody else. And so that knowing that I can choose these other paths for myself and then knowing that there are so many paths out there kind of collided together. And I said, okay, hang on a minute, I think, I think there's something here for me. Right, right. And, and then when you realized and were doing this new perspective taking, how did it unfold to start into the whole idea of retreats and all and supporting women to experience their opportunity by providing that? I'm not gonna say platform. What am I? That experience? Yeah. How did, yeah, I just started on my own journey. Mm-hmm. And I've been on quite a few, you know, seeking more and more experiences. You know, when I traveled I didn't wanna do the super superficial thing anymore. Yeah. I wanted to actually go be in community with people. You know, meet women, have conversation with them or be in the experience of really being in the wild or whatever it was. And these experiences were just opening up these epiphanies for me all the time. And it was there that I was realizing, oh, I can, when I see the world differently, I can see myself differently. And then I thought, that's what I want to do. I wanna create that opportunity for people. Mm-hmm. Not just go on a trip. Trips are lovely. Yeah. I do it all the time. Yes. That's wonderful. Mm-hmm. To go on a real experience, this real journey, and I said, okay. With my theater background, with my travel background, with my psychology background, I can create an experience that, like in theater, I invite people, suspend your disbelief. Right. There's no such thing as I am always. I have never, it's like, here you are in a new space as a new person, so anything is possible. So let's suspend our disbelief. Let's go, you know, back to early 19 hundreds, England, come with me. Who would you be there? You don't know. Yeah. How, how would you know? Let's live in an English manner that just shifts right away. How you treat yourself. Yeah, how you fit the expectations you have, or let's do the same thing at the edge of the world in, you know, Baja, where you're looking at only the nature, the elements, the sun, the sand, the ocean. No tv, no technology, no phone, no person. Ah, who are you here? And creating like this whole stage environment just allows us to unplug from this backstory that we carry. Yeah, and the backstory's heavy and it limits us. There's nothing wrong with it, but it limits us when we're trying to vision forward. Right, right. Yeah, for sure. It, it puts up blinders and it's really that tough, um, haul to get through and figure out. Which you take away those barriers through your retreats. You provide opportunity and what a great gift for you by you because of you. When you connect with Tanya and say, woo, this could be interesting. Why not? What do I have to lose? Yeah. Right. Really. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. And what possibility is out there? Yeah. I can't even fathom. Yeah. You know, like you can't know a place from the place you're in. You can't know another place from the place you're in. Right? You'll always use this as your current context. Right. Right, and, and so it's sometimes important to leave the current context. You can come back to it. Of course, you're not throwing the baby out with the bath water here, folks. Yeah, no, no. But if you are, you know, if your mind is churning about picking somebody up Yeah. Dinner and making sure you call so and so. And what about mom? You can't possibly imagine, you know, a different life when you're imbued in this one. Of course, of course. It's, it's like you say, it literally is impossible. No matter what you do, there's still tethered. You are still tethered. And what I believe you're saying is you don't leave yourself, you expand yourself by going through these opportunities that you provide. Absolutely. The home base is always home base. I mean, you can go back and decide, hey, I'm, I'm gonna remodel home base a little bit. Yeah. I'm gonna it up. Great. But you go back to it. Yeah. But I like to think, you know, people go back with a renewed sense of who they are, you know? Mm-hmm. Life is a time where we're reworking not just. What we're doing. It's not just, oh, the kids are out of the nest, perhaps, or, oh, I picked the job promotion. Now what? Or, you know, it's not just those tactical changes, but it's also the realization that, oh, the, the rules of the game that I thought were important. They're actually not as important anymore or relevant anymore. Right. Or even the values that I want to live my life by, maybe they've shifted in priority. Right. And where do you go to realize that you know exactly. It's not in just day to day, not for me anyways. Maybe others, if others are doing it day to day. Yeah, I wanna know that. Yeah. So there's, there's your invitation, right? If you're doing that, let's talk. Yeah. So you have built communities around the world that explore change through joy. What draws people to that and what do they leave with? Hmm. Well, first of all, community, you know? Yeah, I hear, and I know you hear over and over again, the thing that people are aching for is that real sense of being connected with one another. Connected in exploration, in joy, in pursuit. And I know we're connected with families and our systems around us, but there's, we have an ache for something. It's a little bit bigger and deeper than that. Mm-hmm. Especially this world is in chaos right now. It is painful to be in the world. It is painful to have our little antenna, you know, pinging with what's going on, and we need to have that soft. Space to fall that we co-create for one another. So first of all, it's, it's something that is so important and meaningful to me because I need so much of it that people come and just say, well, what I know is I've met other people who are adventuring, who are requesting, who want more for themselves and for this world, and who are trying to find a peaceful gateway into it. Mm-hmm. I mean, just that lifts you up. Of course, just that. So that is sort of a baseline for joy. But then joy is not only this soft, peaceful thing. You know, I've really come into this new practice and I'm doing this wonderful research around something called Defiant Joy. Which is a stance that we take the stance, and I notice it, I have to say particularly as we enter into the sage part of our lives, you know, that we're past midway now, we putting some things together and what's a part of being able to say, oh no, oh no, you do not get. To take away my joy. You do not get to tell me I'm lived living in scarcity. You do not get to insist upon fear. You do not get to tell me that we are going to cannibalize one another instead of lift each other up. I will be defiant in my joy. I will. On beauty, I will insist on having vision and passion, the idea of co-creation and abundance. Mm-hmm. I'll be defiant in my choice to live a life of joy and in doing so, I will put to bed those who are trying to create a world that thrives on something else. And I think that there's real power in claiming this place of defiant joy. And I think it belongs in this part of our lives. Yeah, totally, totally hear, see, understand where you are coming from when you speak Defiant joy now. Mm-hmm. Totally get it. Yeah. And I love how your, um, putting that stake in the ground that it is for those of us who have. Been through the different components and surface levels of joy, and now really understand. Mm-hmm. No, this is my time and. You say, but I, that's water off a duck's back now. I'm done with that and I know who I am and I'm learning more and more every day. So let's do this. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really, I think an untapped and unclaimed pace. Place of power. Yeah. For most of us. We've been taught and told that Joy is this, you know, fanciful, ephemeral, you know? Yeah. And that's not the case. You know, joy is also a superpower. Mm-hmm. It can change our lives and the world. We can insist upon it. Absolutely. And use it to push back what is absolutely affronting out there. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any specific concepts that you are able to share with us around, you know, these previous and current, and let's try to get rid of them? Mm-hmm. Aspects that exist that, that pigeonhole. That pigeonhole people as they're trying to explore. Yeah. Enjoy. I think we're taught that we have to, um, earn joy. You know, joy is the dessert of life. You know, after you work hard, after you hustle. Life is hard. Even like we work hard. Yeah. And then if you've done it all correctly and there's another big, you know, thing that we have to unpick correctly. Yeah, yeah. One, you might be eligible for joy. Really? Yeah. Really? I don't think so. So that would be one of the things that we bust wide open. No, no. I will claim it now. Mm-hmm. Joy is an action. Joy is a mindset. Yeah. Joy is a choice. Joy is a gift that I offer someone. Mm-hmm. Right? Joy is a political statement. It is not something that comes as a byproduct of me being a good girl. Right? Yes. Yes, yes. And we get to take ownership and responsibility for our own joy. Yes. Right? Yes. And I would say not only do we get to, in fact, you know, isn't it our responsibility, you and I as wise women, as the, the women who are shaping mm-hmm. What is happening in the world right now. Yeah. We don't get to. I actually need to, yeah, I We model that and say, hold on a minute. Yeah. Yeah. You've completely forgotten that this is actually, I don't know. I'm sure your clients say this thing. Most of my clients say after we go through the, why are you pursuing this? Why do you want change? Why do you want more? What is it all about? Joy? That's what we all want. Yeah. Why we play with our grandchildren, joy. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Pursue purpose. Joy. Yeah. Yeah. It's the end game. So let's actually claim it. And everyone, everyone is deserving of joy. It's not for the select few. Absolutely. That, you know, like you've said very well, you gotta earn this to get that. It's like, no, and you are not gonna tell me what my joy looks like either. Thank you very much. Exactly. Yeah, we, and it's not deserving of joy. Yeah. It's not worthy of joy. You were born worthy. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Anybody who holds a little baby. Anybody. We all have had that treasured experience. You look at that little child and you're not saying, you know, I really hope you live up to the expectations.'cause one day you'll experience joy. We actually look at it and say, you are the embodiment of joy. When do we forget that we are the embodiment of joy? Yeah. We are still those babies, you know? Exactly. We have that same spirit. And so I think activating that is what's really important. You know, when we talk about what's next or life visions or coming up the second half of the U curve of happiness or any of those things, it's about activating that sense of being, um, revitalized. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. What's coming up next in your world for our audience to peruse, jump on a plane and come with what's next. Could you share that? Do you get to share that? Sure, I can. So let's see. Next. So right in summer right now, which is nice. Everybody's, you know, mm-hmm. Relaxing a little bit October, mid-October in Quebec City. Uh, so in the middle of all of the beautiful Canadian colors and the maples. I have a retreat called the Sanctuary of Self, and all of my retreats are designed around questions and quests that I've been on personally, and I, I remember coming not so long ago to this realization that when I go through, uh, some kind of itchiness in life, I often seek solace elsewhere. You know, and go somewhere. I travel, I escape. I find a friend, I, it's out. And there's nothing wrong with that. Yep. Absolutely not wrong with that. But I realized, wow, you know, that idea of finding this sense of sanctuary is barely in me. It's not the first place I go. You know, I don't do the trust fall first into me, right? Mm-hmm. Because it's in my head where I have all of these expectations and all of these judgements and all of these shoulds and all of this questioning whether I did it right or not, or could do more or ne nah. So it's actually quite hostile in here, if I'm honest, often, right? Right. Often. Yeah. And so sanctuary of self in Quebec City is really about creating that sense of, ugh, what if I turned into me? What if I trusted me as that first place that I could just be held against my own heart and just go, okay, deep breath. Where are we now? So sanctuary of self, um, in a beautiful, absolutely incredible historic building. I'll only say that, but it is historic. And then in November, uh, traveling down to Baja, Mexico. Um, to a place that's called the Nest, which is right at the point of East Cape. There is nothing around it. It's so wonderful. There is the morning sunrise that comes out over the ocean. These whitewashed little buildings, huts that are there, beautifully appointed, and there we reimagine ourselves. So it's like if you could go somewhere and shut it all down, right? The technology, the voices, the responsibilities, the obligations, and just show up somewhere where every day in ritual and in ceremony, we give gratitude, we explore self and we reimagine. Mm-hmm. There are no rules. You could. Emerge as anyone you wish. And of course, I don't mean you know, necessarily changing the architecture of your life, of course, but what if you changed one of the archetypes that you choose to be living from in your life? So instead of warrior, what if you decided to reemerge as maiden, which is my current journey. Okay. Where I ignited this idea of playfulness and joy and fun and mirth, you know, so I've chosen to take that archetype as the one that is, you know, guiding who I am right now. Right? And I go in and reimagine myself. Really very regularly, I think, you know, back to theater, why wouldn't I play all of these aspects of who I am? Yep, for sure. Why wouldn't just stick with one? So that's. Part of what we do in the reimagine self, and that's, did I say in November? November? Yes. Yeah. And for people who can't travel, maybe travel is not a part of what they can do. Hey, you know, um. I also do a lot of online things where I just invite people to come and play. Right. Just come and play and explore or come work with me. I'll be your coach or plan for next year when we go to France and we decide what's beef? You know, there's lots of ways. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like this is never going away, which is a beautiful gift not only to yourself, but to the audience at large, the worldwide audience at large. So I am honored to share this space and time with you today. Is there anything in particular you would love to leave our audience with before we wrap up today's conversation? I really love. Asking the question of myself and others, who do you dare to be? Mm-hmm. And it's really that dare. Who do you dare to be now? Like can we put ourselves right at the edge of what we know? Life is meant to be Exciting. Yeah, it really is. And it's for us to reach, for it to be exciting. Exciting doesn't drop on us. Right. Yeah. That's chaos. Exactly. Exciting doesn. Yeah. And we don't have to earn it like we have to just reach into it. So who would you dare to be now? Mm-hmm. And you know, we all know the follow up phrase. If not now, when? Right When Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, at the end of the day, we don't know how much time we. As me, you, whoever have no, no. So there's no, there's no time to waste because we just don't know. So why not? There's nothing to lose and everything to gain because you get to track back to who you really are in your spirit and your soul, and guide yourself there with. Incredible people like yourself, Tanya, who do this so eloquently and alongside you, don't create and then say, here you go. You are right in there doing. All the incredible shifts and changes and Oh my goodness, epiphanies. Ta ta, right? Ta Yes. Yeah, indeed. Yeah. So, mm-hmm. And I think it's, um, I love that feeling and I often meet. You know, people I've worked with as I'm traveling or moving around, and it's just such a beautiful thing in that one instinct to go, Hey, hello again. And what epiphany have you got? You know, here's what's striking me, right? I mean, that's how we should greet each other, I think all the time, a hundred percent, because we're missing out when we don't. When we don't step into it. So absolutely. If today's conversation has sparked something in you, I really do invite you to keep that spark alive. Please make sure you share this episode with somebody who needs that inspiration. Follow, review, thrive after FO after 45 so more women can join us in these powerful conversations. And. Invite you to take the next step in your own journey by joining me inside becoming her mentor membership. And it's where we go deeper together to uncover your purpose, embrace your power, and step boldly into the life you are meant to be living. Do this for you. By you because of you. Tanya, thank you again for being here with us today and keep those. Gifts and energy flowing. And uh, we will have all the show in the show notes, all the ways people can connect with you to see what's coming up. And thank you for sharing what's coming up in October and November. I don't think you sleep girlfriend. Yeah, sleep is for later. There you go. There you go. Thank you. And make sure that you have a great day. Take care everyone. Bye-bye.