Thrive After 45™

From Public Speaking Anxiety to Speaking Mentor - with Dr. Doreen Downing

• Denise Drinkwalter • Season 3 • Episode 27

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Some of us are here to teach the very thing we once feared the most. That's the powerful truth at the heart of this week's Thrive After 45™ episode. 

I sat down with Dr. Doreen Downing, a clinical psychologist who spent decades helping people, all while secretly struggling with intense public speaking anxiety.

It wasn't just nerves...it was a crippling fear that she couldn't "knuckle her way through" or overcome by memorizing scripts.

Instead of letting her fear win, Doreen chose to do the deep inner work. What she discovered became her life's signature contribution...the Find Your Voice method. 

It's a powerful mix of psychology, mindfulness, and her own experience, created to help people stop performing and start expressing their truth in boardrooms, on stages, or at home. 

She’s mentored thousands of people over 45 years and was first licensed as a psychotherapist in 1980.

We chat about how to move from pretending to performing and get to your quiet inner truth.

Doreen's work is not about helping people be better speakers, but about helping them be more of who they are.

She shares that what's in your way is actually the way. 

She also opens up about what most people get wrong about fear...that it's too big to approach...and how we can start listening to what our fear is trying to teach us.

Doreen's book, "The 7 Secrets to Finding Your Voice," teaches a process of how to be still, be present, and eventually, be yourself. It’s a journey that takes you from the past, where your fears were born, to a courageous confidence in the present moment.

Find out more about Doreen and her work:

Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.

And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!

Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.

Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!

What if the very thing that you're here to teach. Is the thing you once feared the most. Welcome to Thrive after 45. The podcast where you remember the woman you were never meant to forget. I'm Denise. Drink Walter heart whisperer, midlife mirror, and mentor for the woman awakening to her power. This is your space to shed expectations, collapse timelines, and return to yourself for you by you because of you. It is an absolute honor and a privilege to welcome and reintroduce Dr. Doreen Downing to our show today. Doreen is not just a clinical psychologist with a doctorate from a very prestigious university. She's a woman who's cracked open. One of the most personal challenges. Any of us can face the fear of using our voice. Despite decades of expertise in human behavior, Doreen secretly struggled with intense public speaking anxiety, not nerves, but crippling avoidance. Instead of hiding behind the title, she chose to do the deep inner work. And what emerged is her life's signature contribution. The Find your Voice method, a powerful blend of psychology. Mindfulness and lived experience created to help others break free from silence. Finally, speaking their truth, whether in boardrooms, on stages, or in their own homes. She's mentored thousands over the past 45 years. She was a licensed, she was licensed as a psychotherapist in California in 1980 and today. She's a fearless speaking mentor who helps people stop performing and start expressing. Welcome, welcome, welcome to our show today. Oh, Denise, that was fabulous. I know I gave you a few, uh, lines too about myself, but what you just did to integrate and make it, uh, very, it was just beautiful. I just wanna say thank you for whatever you added to it to make it feel like, yeah, that's my truth. It is absolutely my truth and I feel kind of teary just having it reflected back to me. Wow. It, it did life. Well, it's. It's been an amazing journey and I can't even begin to understand the depths of which you've had to reach to get to what you are doing now. I mentioned in the opening sentence, what if your biggest fear became your life's purpose and you moved? People and mountains through everything you've grown and learned. And that's exactly what you do. Yes. And it's, it's amazing. Yeah. It shows all of us what is truly possible instead of letting the fear take us over. I know, or even try and, um, battle the fear and do it anyway. I know that that's a, it's a, it's a strategy for some, but for, uh, more sensitive types, like myself, I, Ooh, I, I couldn't do it. I couldn't just. Pretend or knuckle my way through, or memorize, memorize, memorize. I have to tell you, when I was in Toastmasters, I would memorize a five minute speech. Right. And I would do it maybe 50 times. Nevertheless, when I got up in front of folks, I'd forget. Yeah. And I know that, uh, that's. That's part of the problem is not being able to stand in the very present moment with whatever, whoever's in front of you and be able to say, ah, take my breath, come back and feel the words coming from within me as opposed to my script. Yeah. Powerful. There's nothing like it. It's, it's like you're, you're tapping in like you've said before, to your truth. Yes. Yeah. And that's a practice. I mean, it's a learning journey and that's what's so exciting, having been a psychologist for 45 years here, that it really is a journey to what, who you are deeply inside. Not all the layers that you've developed, like pleasing or pretending or, you know, all the kind of P words. Yeah, the, the performance. Yes. Not about and, but in, in, it's kind of difficult, I have to say, to be a stand for coming back to a quiet inner truth that you know, and learning how to access that. That's one layer. And then how to express it and then how to deal with. Whatever happens after you express it. And is there, have you found, or even with the people that you've worked with, thank heavens you're doing this work. I'm so grateful that you are doing this work. Um, have you found any of those layers in particular more challenging or is it a whole package or is it dependent on the person? Well, I'd say they're patterns. Okay.'cause you, you know that there are all sorts of assessments, personality styles, Myers Briggs, are you introvert or an extrovert. And so I think that first. I, I don't wanna use a particular assessment. Sure. First, I just wanna help people understand their patterns. Mm. And it does seem to kind of fall into some categories, some of which I just started to talk about. Uh, how do you. Avoid speaking up and expressing your truth. I love what you said about from the boardroom. Well, it's actually from the boardroom to the bedroom. There you go. Is your most Yeah. Your voice is your most, uh, valuable asset. And so first of all, where are the places where you feel like your silenced? I'm gonna put my hand over my mouth. You know where you hold back or where you get scared. Those are the, that's the first step in this in self discovery. Mm-hmm. I'm, what I do is, my work is more about people who wanna be more of who they are, not just that are speakers. Say that again.'cause that was brilliant. That was perfect. That was perfect. Yeah. Well, that's, that's, uh, my work is not about helping people be better speakers and making better speeches and being better performers. Oh, I want people to be truly lined up with who they are, who they're meant to be, their, and I think that it's a, it's a deeper place inside of us that we have to go to access, but you also have to learn how to make that inner journey. And that's why I love the guiding to me, Denise, to me, I love travel. Mm-hmm. I love to go to a new, any place, but a country or a city or even just out in nature and open myself up to explore. And that's the what I bring, I think, to people who wanna go within, because most people don't know how to do inner work. You know, they need a guide. And so I feel like I, that's what my whole life is now. Whole life. My training, like you said, my lived experience, I thought that was a way to to say it has been about how to go within face fear, learn how to embrace it, and then replace it. And those three are part of a training I do. Um, base embrace, replace fear. Mm. Love that. It's, it's a lot easier than what people, you know, because they get afraid to face their fear. Well, I know some ways you can, and it's gonna be maybe even a little fun. Thank you for saying that because I. Beat on this drama lot, and so I'm so glad that you shared. We make this fear into the biggest, darkest blackest cloud that we could ever hold, and it's safer just to avoid it instead of going into it. But what I heard you say is it's, it can be even fun because we explore in ways we wouldn't normally do. Oh, yes. And what, to me, with this, uh, inner journey of facing fear and learning how to, there's a, a quote, what's in your way is the way. What's in your way is the way, and that is, I think one of the guideposts is say, okay, if it's in your way, let's just, I love the idea of, I'm a big sister anyway, so I love the idea of taking somebody's hand and just saying, oh, look at that. And then learning how that, yes, it was perhaps a survival mechanism, uh, that they. You know that they figured out, luckily early in life to protect themselves, but sure. Let's, let's appreciate the fact that the fear did that for you. Yes, right. Thank that fear. Yes, thank you. Good guy. There you go. There you go. So. What do most people get wrong about fear and, and how do we actually start listening to what our fear is actually trying to teach us? Hmm. Great questions, both of them. The first, I'll go for the last one and I'll, I Sure, sure. I'm not sure I'll remember the first question. It's okay. Last that's, I could repeat the listening. Because I think that's the, that is the absolute key to inner work is being able to, I'll just do it right now. Just take a breath, calm the whole nervous system down, and to have a place of a quiet observer. That's through regulating your body so that you are, your heart isn't beating fast, and you're able to feel grounded in your belly and your feet. You know that there's a grounded sense of being in this very, now, maybe even close the eyes. I mean, it's, it's kind of hypnotic, but uh, it is a way of. Preparing yourself to face something that you know has been an impediment that's been difficult for you. So you train yourself to be a quiet observer, nonjudgmental, and not really trying to. Change the fear, but to learn about it. To explore it. So that's the kind of listening that I think is, uh, one that gets, gets the truth, gets closer to the truth. Right? An animal that's been, uh, wounded.'cause that's what we're talking about, our wounded voice, uh, that you've gotta approach very gently. Mm-hmm. Slowly, and that seems to be the same truth about how to approach fear. Yeah. I love that. What I'm hearing you say is that you sit with it. Mm-hmm. And I love how you said, don't be judgmental, just be at one with it and try to pull that lens of curiosity. Ooh, that's a nice way to say it. Lens of curiosity. Yes. Ah, what can I learn here? What, uh, you know, so it, it, it's just a whole different approach. So I think your first question is what do people get wrong about fear? Right. I remembered. Okay. So what I think they get wrong about fear is that they can't do anything about it. And that it's, uh, it's something, it is what you said a few minutes ago. It's this huge big obstacle that, uh, is. It's just too, it, it creates too much terror in their body that they, and there is some truth about trauma, right? And we don't wanna activate or reactivate trauma. So that's why this new kind of deep, uh, listening with, with what you say cur curious lens. Curious lens, yeah. Lens of curiosity. Yeah. Curiosity. So that's, uh, so I think that they get what gets what people get wrong about fear is that it's too big, they can't approach it. And uh, other people can feel the fear and do it anyway, but they can't, so they don't, they don't really, they haven't learned that there is, there is an approach. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. That works. Exactly. And it doesn't have to be Toastmasters. Because that scary for so many of the people that I work with who have tried it and they feel like they go and it's not, it's not a safe place for them. For some it is. I'm not saying it's Sure. Sure. Yeah, and I mean, what you have talked about I think is really the next level. I mean, I'm not totally familiar with Toastmasters. I have a cursory view of what it is, but it's more just about how you present. It's a presentation part, and you are talking. Aligning yourself with whom you really are and taking yourself and sharing that in a way that exudes not only confidence, but comfort from within. You capture so much of the work that I do and such great words, uh, you're, you're just, uh, you're like a, a poet who, uh, is able to reflect the truth. Yes. That is what the way you just expressed it is it's about learning more about what's really true for yourself and finding, I would call it courageous confidence. To speak up. Love that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. And you mentioned the three different levels. I can't remember the second one. The in inside, looking at your inside, and then the third part was about what comes back to you as you share. Yes. Yeah. Your truth. Yeah. And. That in itself, I'm sure is an incredible journey for the people that you work with and how they get to learn, grow, and change by getting the feedback of what people hear or what they think they hear, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So the, uh. A lot of times people are afraid to speak up and, and say what they really feel or what they really want because they're going to create something in the other person that they will then have to deal with. So that's what they're really avoiding. They're avoiding the consequence of expressing their truth. Yeah. And so, um. There are ways to express truth, especially let's say anger. Sure. In a way that's much more relational or compassionate or, you know, being able to really own your own truth rather than just a blasting at somebody. So I think those are some communication techniques that I think can help people when they're actually. More'cause there's the inner work and then of course there's the outer work of how to express it. And then, uh, if it goes wrong, how to say, oh, I actually meant to say this, this and that. Yeah. You know, like, yeah. Yeah. And or except that people have reactions and it's none of your business how they react to you. Right. Exactly. That's, that's theirs to own what they come back with. That's about you. That's not about me. And if there's learning for me to understand that I didn't send my message across the way it was in my body, my mind, my heart, my soul, I'll rework it so you, I know that you really understand what it is I was actually trying to share. Right? Yeah. Beautiful. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What is the secret to being confident to express yourself without that fear standing in the way? Hmm. Ooh, the secret. Well, my book has seven secrets. Well, there we go. We're gonna get your book to get all seven. Is there one in particular that's really, I'm glad you said that. Yes.'cause I, I probably don't wanna go through all seven, but that's, yes. The, the process, the find your voice process that I, uh, develop based on my own expertise as a psychologist and my own lived experience, as you said. Yes. So, uh, the, see, the one that, oh, there's so many because there's aspects of it, but I would say, uh, all of them, just as a way of explaining what it is. Every single one of my seven secrets begins with Be b, e, be. I'll just say the first one is be still, the second one is be present and then on and on and on till the, the seventh secret is be yourself. So we don't start with being yourself. You have, that's the journey. So the stillness is the first learning how to still the. Mind the chatter, learning how to calm your beating heart, how to, uh, so that's the first is being still learning how to be still in the midst of maybe your heart is beating, but you can still have a centered, grounded, uh, sense of stillness inside. And so the second one, and I won't go further, but, and this is to me what. What's so powerful about that? My process is presence. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Be present because so much of the fears in the past, whether it was family, teachers, other kids, teasing, absolutely. Culture. Thou shall not, you know, that kind of thing. Religion, all the reasons, the way that we've learned to hide ourselves and our voice. Is in the past. Mm-hmm. And then what we do is project it into the future, anticipating, uh oh, I better not, or else, uh, or if something happened in the past, it's gonna happen again. So learning how to take that breath, soften the eyes, that's another one of the lessons, but it's just. So the sockets around your eyes, cheeks begin to relax, shoulders drop, it's magic. You could do that in any meeting, right? Yeah. You don't have to go anywhere. You can just be literally, like you just said, be still be present, and Uhhuh. Do all of that inside yourself. Everything changes'cause you change your energy. We have so much power and control Yes. That we don't utilize. But when? When we don't know. We can't do, and that's why Dr. Doreen has so many incredible gifts to share with you and in our show notes, we absolutely will have how to connect with her and contact her and see all of the incredible things that she has out in the world right now to help all of us find our voice, right? Yeah. And be confident to express what matters most. Yeah. Oh, and that, and you said in the show, uh, right at the beginning of the show that it's, whether it's at home, some of the work that I do in teaching people how to listen, it changes their relationships. Yeah, people came back to me and said, I said that that's exactly what he's been wanting from me. All this or that. My wife is, you know, that kind, they, they report back the power of what they learn about being present and about really using the eyes to stay with. And, uh, listen with your eyes. I just feel like I could teach so much right now, but, so anyway. Listen with your eyes is another, is another teaching, I think. As opposed, yeah. Where you, or listen from your heart. Hello. That's a beautiful instruction, isn't it? Listen. Mm-hmm. Listening. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Before we close, is there anything that you would absolutely love to leave our audience with today? Any closing remarks? Any closing comments that are coming up for you that you wanna make sure land on? Two ears for each audience member. Well, I would say the second step about facing and embracing the way that we are with ourselves in terms of, um, being kind and gentle and patient and being our own, I guess you might say something like medicine that we bring to ourselves. The opportunity by the way that we say hello in there. You are okay. Uh, you could come out now. I can make it safe for you. And that's the, the hello in there. Feels like if people are still with us today, right now, and just, but when we end, just go Hello in there to yourself. Love that. I love that. If this episode and our conversation has stirred something in you, if you felt an ache of a voice that's still locked inside or the pull to maybe speak more clearly or more boldly, more you, this is your sign. Come and explore the ME academy, and it's where we don't just talk about growth, we live it. It's where women over 45 rewrite the second half of their lives with more power, presence, and purpose than ever before. You can find all of this information. In the show notes, you can find all of the incredible information and Dr. Doreen Downing's gifts, what a calming presence you have. I want to thank you so much for being here so much. Yes, well, it's truly, truly, truly a wonderful moment to share with somebody else who has deep heart. Thank you. Thank you. Until next time, speak it, feel it fully. And don't forget, your next chapter is not a reinvention. It is a remembering.