🎙 Grown Ass Dads Podcast | Episode 5: Should Dads Have a Social Life?

In this episode, the dads dive headfirst into a lively, honest conversation about one of the most quietly controversial topics in modern fatherhood: Do dads deserve a social life? What starts as a playful jab quickly turns into a deep reflection on guilt, communication, personal growth, and what it means to make space for friendships while balancing family responsibilities.

From beer-league hockey to post-meeting beers, planned golf trips to passive-aggressive partner reactions, the guys unpack how different their lives and perspectives have become. They get real about insecurities, communication breakdowns, and how they’ve evolved as men, friends, and partners.

Episode Highlights:

• Defining what a "dad social life" really means
• Why guilt and apathy hold so many fathers back
• The power of clear, honest communication in relationships
• The difference between dad and mom guilt
• How to honor your calendar without letting go of what matters
• Vulnerability, insecurity, and personal growth in mid-life

👊 Funny. Thoughtful. Unfiltered. It's a conversation every grown ass dad (and their partner) needs to hear.

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💭 Drop a comment:

• Do you have a social life?
• What do you define as a "social life" as a dad?

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Transcript

0:13

Welcome to the Grown Ass Dads podcast. Boop boop boop boop boop boop boop. Welcome to the Grown ass dads podcast. I'm Adam Bundoran. I'm here. I'm here to fuck with Jason. I don't even know why I come anymore. I'm getting too frustrated with these guys. I'm Jason Byrne, happy to be here. Let's get this show on the road. Basil Hayden again tonight, I love it. I love it. Two in a row for Basil Hayden. I like that. Feel free to add your suggestions. We we love bourbon and we like try new stuff. So throw in your options. That can get dangerous. Let's go. I'm down with that. All right. Okay. So this is a Jay Hill zing special. I'm so excited. I know you are so excited. So the topic for tonight is should dads have a social life? Do dads have a social life? Is it okay for dads to have a social life or just social life and being a dad in general? Fair. Let's go. Okay, so like, he's like, smiling like a little schoolgirl. So he was bopping in here. I'm pretty. Pretty wound up. So we started talking a little bit before the show started, and I was like, stop. We're going to ruin. We're going to. We're going to get rid of all the ammo. Let's let's wait till we get, on camera. So let's just I'm going I'm going to start with the easiest question. Should dads have a social life? Absolutely. 100%. And if they don't have a social life, it is purely on them. I mean, is it. Is that a stupid question? It's not a stupid question, because I would I would venture to guess that, 90% of the dads that I know don't have a social life, don't have a social life or or fight against having a social life or both. Don't have a social life because it's easier to be complacent and it's easier to just go. I just don't have time. I got these kids, and my wife and my wife will be mad at me if I go out, and she doesn't get to go out. And you know what? If I miss something with the kids and, dad, guilt and apathy are the main contributors to why my friends, whom I love and want to see more, I don't see ever. Got it. Jay, what do you say? Well, I kind of want to get a little bit more definition around exactly what? What are we defining as a social life? Oh, that's okay, that's fair. Because mine's probably different than yours. Sure. So for me, social life, is different than we talked on an episode about, personal time. That is. That was me. I'm. I'm well aware we talked about personal time. I can't stop hearing about it now. And, and so that that personal time is more of, your, we'll call it quiet time or your time, just you that is, decompression or is whatever you're going to call it in in you know, watch a show, sit in a dark, long poops or whatever. For me, it's long pips a social life for me is actually going out and doing something with other adults that you enjoy spending time with. In some way, shape or fashion. And so that is different for everybody. They're and examples of that. My social life would be going out and playing a round of golf with three other friends of mine, going to a bar to watch a game on a Thursday night. Going to, a golf trip for the weekend. Potentially going to a concert are going to a game at a stadium. Anything in that variety where you're going to go out without your significant other, without your kids and you are going to plan something that you're going to go out and have fun doing with other people that you enjoy having fun with, is what I would consider to be a social life that is separate from your social life that you have with your significant other. So I believe that everyone has some semblance of a social life with it, with with their partner, with their partner, going on dates, going on double dates, going out to friends houses, whatever that ends up being so this is more specific to a social life that your significant other is not in attendance, and your children are not in attendance. Okay. That that that's that's very important distinction, I think, for the conversation in general because I, I was not looking at it that way. I was just looking at it as getting out of the house, period. It could have been with spouse, could have been with whole family. But you're you're referring more to social life by yourself, doing what you want, not might not by yourself, but from a family perspective. It's you out with your circle and not necessarily including other members of your household. Correct. So you are case in point. We've been friends for our whole life. And you, if you and your wife and your kids go to an event with another family and have a social experience, at no point do I believe that you, question it or feel guilty, or you personally might go. I'd rather be at home. But you ultimately, you ultimately, don't there's there's not there's no stress or anxiety around that at all. I well, what would be the source of stress? Okay, so but you're, you're talking about a scenario where I'm out with my family, you're out with your family, okay? You're out with your wife, and you, you you are just having a good time. And that is a social life that you have in conjunction with your family. Fair as a dad and having a, at your own individual social life. And we're not talking about going on dates or cheating or doing anything nefarious, but the ability to go out and, by yourself. And no, I cannot spell. I say, let's I wasn't get the whiteboard, I wasn't going there. And EPA, there's no there's no p any pay. Oh. Brutal sweating. But the so what I, what I will contend is that the majority of the people that say, yes, I do have a social life and yes, I do go out without my wife or without my kids. The majority of them will say during that time out, they will have, at minimum, a twinge of guilt or fear that they are doing something wrong or that they are not being a good dad because he left the people that depend on him at home for four hours. Interesting. Well, let me ask. So if you go out on a Thursday night to watch a game, do you feel guilty? This is a tough question for me to answer. Okay. For a couple of reasons. One, I don't do that, but it's not out of fear. It's not out of guilt. It's not out of. It's because you don't wanna do it. Yeah. Jerry hit the nail on the head. I'm a I'm a home guy. I like sitting on my couch. I mean, I used to be one who would go out relatively frequently, but I've, in my old age, if you will have have established a little bit of a social anxiety that has made me more interested in being at home, but I, I don't think I'm, I'm trying to think back, but I, I don't know of a time when I was out with you at the bar and playing Golden Tee, and we've done it within the last two years. In fact, after work, it wasn't late at night, but it was after work and we played. Goldie had a wing ding and and the good night, the whole nine yards and things. I don't remember ever feeling guilty. I should be at home. There's things I should be doing at the house or I. I wonder what my wife is doing or I hope my kids are okay. I don't, I don't I don't think that I have a feeling of guilt if I'm out. I just I don't go out all that often, okay. About you. So, man, lot to unpack. So, I'm lucky enough to. Where I don't have to, I don't have to, you know, feel guilty for going out like I play softball on Sundays. Like maybe one of my kids or both. My kids will be there to watch, but most of the time, they're not. I play golf on Mondays. I'm on to golf league. On Mondays, my kids are not there, my wife's not there. And I'm there with family and and buddies and all that stuff. And I don't necessarily feel guilty there. However, I've learned over the years to be a better communicator about my, social life and activities. Yeah, yeah. So, this, this. So I, I remember learning how to communicate, and I think that communication is, is probably the, you know, the, the gold or the, the guardrails to any healthy relationship. But I can remember I used to play hockey on Wednesdays, and no matter what time my game was, I would always say, hey, we're going to go upstairs after the game and have a beer. Well, she heard me say, I'm going to go upstairs after the game and have, beer. And what I meant to say was, we're going to close the bar down every week after hockey. So learning how each other communicate was important. And I had fear in saying, we're going to go upstairs and we're going to close the bar down every Wednesday or whatever it was, and not because I was going to get beat when I got home or ashamed when I got home. It was actually the opposite. It was like, go like, go with your buddies, go do your thing. Yeah, it was just communication is important and just me being able to communicate differently took all of the sting out of it for me. You are the anomaly. Your wife is awesome, she's awesome. And you guys have a really healthy, great relationship. Yeah. Jason's wife is awesome. They have a very healthy, great relationship. I have the feeling I don't have the feeling. I know for certain that if Jason played hockey on Wednesday nights and that was his night out of the house, and he said, hey, after the game, what we do is we go upstairs and we have a few beers and, you know, not close the bar down and get belligerent. But you know, our, our game might be at 8:00 to 9:00 o'clock. The bar closes at midnight. Yeah, the bar closes at 11. We get a pizza and three buckets of beer, and we sit there and bullshit and talk about, you know, those fucking punk kids that we played against, like, whatever. It's the same thing we do every single week, you know? And it's much like softball on Sundays. If my game's at 1230 or if my games at 630, we're probably going to sit there and watch a few games and drink a couple buckets after the game. Yeah, that's what we do. You know, we're part of the athletic Association at our parish. We go she knows after the athletic Association, we're going to go to the stone and and and have two pizzas and a thing of toasted ribs and a 17 buckets. Yep. But but it's still important for me to say meeting was good. We're going to head up to Blarney. Yep. Great. Have fun. Be careful. Cool. I'm in the same exact boat, so I substitute in the exact same softball league. So yeah, occasionally doing that we hang out after the games Athletic Association, same thing. I am communicating the whole time though, like I'm thinking back on an Athletic Association meeting where I am literally meetings almost done. Might go out afterwards. Not sure yet. Meeting's over with head into Blarney sitting at Blarney, getting ready to have another beer. Right? Leaving Blarney on my way home. So I mean, it's it is. It's nonstop communication. Maybe it's almost overkill. Well, maybe. But at the same time, I don't mind. I don't mind set like I'm not a pussy because I want to send a note. Yeah. You know, I'm perfectly comfortable saying, like, hey, this is the thing. This is what we're doing. Cool. Right on. And that gets met with great. Have fun. Be careful. I will say on the opposite side. And I don't know if this is kind of, a shoehorn into the next phase. Is I try to force her to go out. Yep. So, dad, dad, social life. And mom social life is totally different, in my opinion. Look, great. She won't do it, mom guilt. And she won't do it because, well, like, I can joke about it, but she's like, is he going to burn the house down? Are the kids going to get set? And I know, and I say kind of in jest, but like also so there's probably some truth to that. It's like all she keeps are she keeps our ship afloat. And when I'm home, like, I'll be like, you guys want to watch the ball game? Or like they're doing their on, their devices are doing their thing, and I'm doing my thing and it's like, shit, it's 8:00. You guys, we need to eat something. Yeah, I think that's anybody hungry. Like it is a legit thing. I could go days and just forget to eat. And I have two children that can't do. Probably should eat. Right. Sure. The this the the whole situation is, the communication is key. Now, you guys happily married guys? Me a divorced guy, in in my marriage before that. And it's not the reason that we got divorced, but it was a situation where she didn't understand that scenario if I. Because it's very normal. I played hockey on Monday nights, and that was, you have an 8:00 game. We get done at nine, have a pizza and some beers. We leave the leave the rink at 11 and we go home. More often than not. It was Matt either when I got home or the next morning, like, you know, hope you had fun. I was just, at home with the kids, taking care of everything. And I would go, all right, yeah, I did. You take care of everything. Anybody get hurt? Anything a robot? No, it was fine. Okay, cool. No problem. And it was a passive aggressive way that she was like, I don't understand, like, you know, Monday nights or hockey nights. And so nothing else happens on Mondays other than than hockey. I said that it's not even remotely close. You can do whatever the fuck you want, and you want to take the boys wherever they want to go, or you want to do whatever you want to do, that's fine. No problem. If you want to have a night, if Tuesday nights are and I'm not trying to be stereotypical, but our book club or our massages and and cocktails or you want to play in a hockey league, go do it. Go have that. That could be your night of the week to go out, and I will take care of the I will take care of the thing. I never, ever, ever had an issue. Not one time being married 20 years. Did she say, hey, I'm going to go out for a girls night. And I went, okay, go do that. Do it. Go ahead. Blast! I got the boys do ghost, the other song if you want. Call me if you need me to pick you up. You know, whatever it was more often than not when I would say, hey, I got hockey or I'm going to go out and do this or whatever, that she would go, well, I guess I'm going to stay home again. Yeah, I guess you are like, I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm cool with you going out and I'll, I'll hold down the fort. But on Monday nights I play hockey like we know this is on the calendar. It's been going on for ten years. I'm not sure what's surprising about it anymore. Right. And so now a lot of guys that are our age are not playing hockey every Monday night. They're not playing softball every Sunday night. And so that's they're just not doing that. And they don't have a consistent thing that they do because those things are going on, you know, revolving around the kids and work is different and everything, and there's all these different things. So I know that I'm a bit of an anomaly that I have 1 or 2 nights a week, every week, that I have something that is pre-planned and schedule. Right. I totally get it. But in this world and why this was so interesting to me, because this week it just came up. I sent a text out to 12 guys that I haven't that I saw on New Year's Eve. And while were there New Year's Eve and all the family and everybody's there, the guys are like, guys, we haven't I haven't seen you in forever. We need to get we need to get together and go out. Hillsong playing us a night out because you're the planner. All right. Cool. What do you guys what's the parameters? And they're like, well, we got all this shit going on, so need at least a month's heads up. Needs to be a Thursday or Friday. Can't be a Saturday. And we want it to be somewhere close. All right. Cool. Do. I'm in. So I put together some schedules with a couple of guys while they were sitting there and looked at some stuff. And so finally last week I sent out a, tax of those 12 guys. I said, hey, we're looking at Friday night last week of May, we're going to do something here in the county. And here's three different options. So things that we can do, let me know what you think. We're going to get together at six. Everybody can go home, get the kids situated or get dinner ready or whatever. And then we're going to go out of those 12 guys. I got five immediate. Can't do it. Yeah. Out. Okay, fine. Whatever. Then I got, four guys immediate in. Can't wait. And then, couple of dudes are like, dude, I gotta I gotta see what's going on closer to. And what are you talking about? Well, if something comes up with the kids or a game or any of this stuff happens, then I have to be out. But if I don't have a game or I don't have a practice, or I don't have something in my wife's doing, or if I don't have this, then I don't. I'm in. Okay, so this is what leads into this question. And should dad or do dads deserve to have a social life? So I'll ask the two of you this. You are not on that tax because. Because I don't like you very much. I was going to say I didn't get a fucking tax. Jason, let's. I stopped inviting Jason places just because we're going to be sitting at your house, right? He knows better. So. So now I invite you guys to that. It's it's 40 days out and you put this on the family calendar. Yeah. And a week before that happens, a baseball game gets scheduled for your kid. You're not the coach. You're not the coach. You're just a dad sitting in the stands. Do you cancel on going out with your friends to go to that baseball game? Because that got schedule. Can you make it soccer? Sure. Okay, so. Yeah. So I mean, our, our calendar is, is I mean, obviously it has to be flexible when you have two kids and all that stuff, but for the most part it is what it is. And there has been I mean, there's there's been many times where the a soccer game pops up or something pops up and it's like, oh, but you're doing this, or I'm doing this, and that's just what it is. So if I, if I give the rule of, yeah, it's got to be a month out, and if I don't have anything on the calendar, I'll put it on the calendar. Yeah. Then that's where I'm going and that's where I'll be. Okay. And I would, but but here's the thing. I always I wasn't always like that. Okay? My brother was really great at, you know, helping me learn, how to prioritize, I guess, like how important it was for me to to give myself stuff, and not just me, but, like, my family, too. So, like, I was famous for. Because my brother's awesome. And he'll he'll call and say, like, hey, we're going to go do this thing. We're going to go to this place. And not like we're going to go to, you know, the, the mall. He's like, hey, we're going to go to Belize in February on the 13th through the 17th. And I'm like, yeah, I'll see what I got going on. He's like, hey, fucking idiot. Yeah, put Belize on your calendar in like he beat that into my head. And so it's something that I'm still probably learning, but I've gotten so much better at it than than I used to be. And so if someone invites me somewhere like, that's where I'm going to be. As long as there's enough notice and you know it, to be honest, it's something I want to fucking do. Sure. Because there's plenty of times to do some things right, like you don't want to do it. Don't do it. I'm not going to do it. That's totally fine. You know, like I have, I have, like, five really, really tight homies from high school. And one of them is my oldest friend from grade school, and I love them dearly. I if they if they put something together, I will do everything that I can and we're free to go. But if it's like, hey, it's I mean, what is it? It's Thursday night. If someone if one of them says like, hey, on Saturday we're going to go do this thing, I can't. Yeah, my Saturday spoken for, I know, I know where I'm going to be fair enough. But in this scenario, you plan something a month and a half out soccer game gets added to the calendar. I'm at my thing. You're at your thing. Do you feel guilty for being at your thing? Probably not. I used to, And I think that comes from me just growing as an individual and probably carrying a lot of insecurities around with me to where I would. I was very good at creating like, problems where they didn't exist. And so my insecurity would manifest itself in being defensive. Okay. To where like if somewhat like if, if my wife was like, hey, are you going to go out on Friday with the guys? I'm well, yeah. I mean, I fucking said I was like, what's the problem? And she said, well, I didn't just ask. It's just curious. So on the calendar, just making sure like that's but that's who I was for a very long time was I was a super insecure person and I needed to I needed everybody to like me. I needed everybody to love me. And I don't just fucking care anymore. But it's taken a long time to get there, like, you know, and I really, I kind of fell into an awesome group, in our community, like, with, you know, the guys at, at that at school and, and like, and my buddies that, that I came up with, like, you found me here. Welcome. I found Jason. Yeah. Thanks, Jason. It but it took a long time to get there. And I know this isn't this show, but it's one that we just kind of chatted about a little bit is how do we how do we have our kids not skin their knees on on this insecurity for 30 plus years, two of their friends like, hey, now I can do the shit I want to do because I'm secure in myself. So, it's very difficult for me to schedule stuff because we are busy people. But once it's scheduled, it's scheduled. And I don't necessarily feel guilty now. I feel guilty, like Transactionally like what I mean by that is so, like, if I go on a golf trip, we, I play in a golf tournament. It's a three day tournament. We do it every August. It's awesome. There's 98 guys there. It's so much fun. And if something happens at home, I feel bad. Like, if it's like, like one year she sent me like a text of, like, a bloody shirt, and she's like, he busted his face. You know, there's blood everywhere. I wish I could do something about it. I can't, but I'm not like, oh my God, I'm a shit dad. I'm a shit husband. How dare I go on this trip while she's doing like, no, she's like, that's good for you. Get the fuck out. Go do go play golf with your buds. And so I think in that what you just said is where I'm at in this is I don't feel guilty. If my kid has a game or a game that got scheduled that night, but I want to see him play. I enjoy watching my kids play. Course. Yes. So it's not guilt. It's not like, man, I'm a shit dad or whatever. It's like, man, I would really like to do both, but I have to make this decision and I'm still going to have fun. And in this day and age that we live in right now, I'll probably pull this game up on a stream, on a live stream. And while I'm doing whatever I'm doing, I'll be watching his game. But I don't. But I don't feel guilty, if you will, I, I can't tell you how many friends that I have that if that scenario happens, they are perfectly fine bailing the week of or the day before, like, hey, what you want me to do? My kids got a game or my kids got a practice or whatever. I go practice what I, what I want, what I want, yeah, what I want, what I want on my practice is come hang out with us. Right. And your kid's going to have 7 million more games and 7 million more practice. But here's here's a big thing. And I think that this is this plays into it. Now as far as like sissy or what other cities would call parochial like you may not get your schedule for the whole season, but I pretty well know when our shit is. Yeah, yeah, like I know like Harry plays golf. I know when all the golf matches are, when gas plays volleyball, I know when all of that. Like I know when the stuff is. So if you say like, hey, next May, I don't even know what the weekends are. May 31st, is there any you know, there's 31 days in May, but like, whatever it is, is there something that day I can look and be like, yep, no, I'm pretty cool. Nothing's going to surprise me. And if something does surprise me, then it's then it's I'll be fine with it. Like I'm good with it. What am I? But people have such piss poor relationships with their own schedules that, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's easy to bail when you're like, I didn't know my kid had. Yes, you fucking did, right? Yeah. This. So it's either the guilt eat you up or you really didn't want to go. And this is your excuse. Certainly didn't prioritize it enough to be there. And so that's fine. But don't bullshit me and tell me that you can't go. But there's a lot of these guys that are bullshitting themselves and like, oh, dude, I would love to if I have to hear one more person tell me what I would love to do that it's just no chance. Here's the deal. You're a grown ass fucking dad and you control your life. You make money, you have your own calendar, you have a car. So if you would love to do something and it sounds amazing, right? The thing stopping you is you. The thing stopping you is something internal. That you are afraid of. Something you're afraid of, the guilt. You're afraid of eating a bucket of shit when you go home, or you just don't want to go and you're just bullshitting me and if you are just bullshitting me, then stop doing that. Yeah, because if you don't want to go, just say you don't want to go. It's no big deal. Maybe we did get the text. We just didn't want to go. Oh, no, no, you didn't. You know you're not in that group. So I those of you who are listening or watching right now, I think we're we're what, four episodes, five episodes in now. So by now it's, it's abundantly clear that I'm a very unique specimen of a human being. Whoa. So you are. I just want to I want to preface it with that. So, I'm kind of in an interesting scenario here because I, I also would choose to do the event that was previously scheduled over the event for my kid. The reason why I'm able to do that, though, is because I have an expansive support system that even if one of my other kids has something going on and my wife is tending to that, I've got my dad, I've got my mom, my brother and his wife would chip in and help him out if need be. One of the things that I've learned from, especially being on the hockey side, is turns out there's a lot of parents out there that have no help at all. So there are those occasional times when they're like, I don't have a choice. My kid has a game. I got to cancel all else. Otherwise my kid's not going to get to the game. Right? If I didn't have that support system, that would be the case for me, because my kid's not going to ride to the game with anybody else. Like I couldn't call another dad and say, hey, can you give Carter right? In most case, like he'd ride with with you because that's how close he is with Harry and all that stuff. But like, if, if a hockey game popped up, I there's nobody on that hockey team that I could reach out to and get a ride for. Carter and Carter be willing to go. Right. So the only way he's getting to that game is if I cancel my plans and we go do the hockey game, right. Okay. With that said, though, I despise having things on my calendar like I hate waking up in the morning and looking at my calendar and seeing things that I have to do. So I could you could ask me right now about plans the last weekend in May, and it could be it could be that 98 person golf tournament. And I'm like, oh hell yeah, let's let's go play golf all weekend. Let's play 72 holes. Yeah, let's drink our tails off and just have an absolute blast. I will be excited about it until Friday morning, until Friday morning when I wake up and I pull my calendar up and it's the day that I got to leave and I'm like, shit, I got to go do that golf tournament and I'd rather sit on my couch and do nothing. So it's it's not a matter of, I never wanted to and I agreed to and I hadn't an intention to bail. It's it gets to the point where it's where I feel forced because I committed to it. But I've changed my mind. And at the moment I don't want to. And unfortunately, that's a lot of the time. I don't have I have no good excuse for. That's just kind of how I tend to roll, right? I get to the day of some of them, but that also significantly hampers my ability to have a social life, because I decide that I want to do something. At 4 p.m. that evening, I decide I want to play poker tonight, or I want to have some people over to the golf swim and play some golf. Well guess what?

At 4: 31:45

00 on a Friday evening, if anybody is going to be doing anything, they've probably got plans already. Yeah, that's on me. Well, let me ask you this. So in that scenario, let's pretend like I invite you to this 98 person golf tournament. How many people do I know? I'm going to pretend that I know a lot of them. You don't. For the sake of this. For the sake of this scenario, for the sake of this discussion, you know, 20 of them. All right. 20 of my best friends. Right. And you wake up Friday and you don't want to go. Yep. And this might not be the best one because you're probably committed to it for some in money, and I've probably paid already. But let's just say, okay, let's say it's one of two days, we're going to go watch the Final Four or something on a on a Friday night and you're like, yep, I'm in. We're going to go and you wake up Friday morning and there's no monetary or partnership commitment or anything like that. Do you still go? I don't understand what my positioning is. Did I wake up in the morning and decide that I didn't want to? Yeah. I mean, you said like the majority of the time you wake up and you don't want to do it. Yeah. Do you still go? In most cases I still go unless which I think is probably healthy. Yeah. To push you out of wanting to go. And nine times out of ten, once I'm there, I'm having a great time and things things are awesome, right? But why do you go? Why do you go? Because I don't want do it. I'm going because the other people will make fun of me or give me shit if I don't go correct that. That is. But that's not the reason to go have fun. But that's that's what's getting you there. If you if you knew that I wasn't going to bust your balls for not showing up, you would be. I am not going to disagree with you. Okay? And this is actually a therapy session for you. But this is this is the third episode that you've mentioned, me being in therapy or you therapy me. So you know, this this podcast is just the invoice is in the mail. Fair enough. Send it. Send it on over. But put it on my tab. So it's the, the, the dads that are doing this and whether they're scheduling things, they're scheduling a weekly golf league or they're scheduling a hockey league or they're scheduling, a weekly dart game or date or just a situation where they go, hey, I'm going to on Thursdays, I'm going to Blarney Stone. Yeah. And we're going to hang out. And there's, you know, eight guys that that say, hey, we're going to hang out after work on Thursdays at the Blarney Stone for two hours and have an appetizer and a beer or whatever that ends up being. And if you come, you come, and if you don't, you can't, you don't. And, certain weeks it's two guys, certain weeks it's eight guys. Whatever. Yeah. Dads don't do that. And when I say dads don't do that, I they're, it's very few and far between that they are doing that and prioritizing. And what I'm saying is prioritizing their fun over whatever else may possibly come up on the family calendar. And it's for any number of different reasons. But that's where I'm saying the majority of dads don't have a social life. And is that okay? And is that is that fair or is it or do dads want that? And if you don't, if you're a dad that doesn't care to do things and is totally fine and very fulfilled by just doing all this stuff that gets put on the calendar for the kids and for your wife and for all that stuff. Cool. No big deal. This got brought up a couple of weeks ago because I, I have a my pet peeve is that guy is that friend that we've had for ten years. Five years, 25 years, whatever that will sit in front of and be like, dude, it's been too long. All I do is sit at home, just do the kid stuff. I'm burnt out. I need a night out. I got to be able to do this. Hey, you know, I'm not really a planner. I just, I really, really want to do something cool to put a night together. Because this is kind of your jam. Absolutely. Dude. Let's do it. What's what? What are our parameters? What are we going to do? We put that together. And then I send the text out and I'm like, sorry, bro, I'm out. And so, what ends up happening there is that then opens them up or gives me carte blanche for, merciless ridicule and, I can be like, hey, listen, you're a huge bitch. Because if you want to do that, I'll help you. If you don't want to do that, that's still okay with me. But I, with certainty, don't want to listen to you bitch to me about your life. And it's so boring. And you do all this and you won't help yourself. And this, this is a more a deep situation. But my biggest pet peeve in life are grown ass adults that refuse to help themselves. They want people to do things for them. They want all the options. You're you're born in the wrong fucking time. They want all of the options. They want to make the choice. They want everything that they can have, but on their terms and when it's convenient for them, and it's just not how the fucking world works. Oh, yeah. So but this is that's how that's how it ends up. But the dad's social life is, to me, invaluable. Well, so let me ask you this question. When do your kids know? Do your kids know that you have a social life? Like what is your relationship with that explanation? What is it? What how do you know? How do your kids, interpret your social life? I tell them the truth. Hey, dad's going to go out with his friends and have a good time. I'm going to go play hockey. I'm going to go play softball or whatever. It's they a lot of times will come with me to go to my different sports. And whatever's happening, they're not coming to the bar with me. At times I'll take them to a Blues game or a Cardinals game or whatever that ends up being. But in reality, if I say, hey, Joe, Dan, dad gets to go to the blues game with Uncle Jason and and and, Mr. Adam and so-and-so, and most of the time they're responses. I want to go, that sounds awesome, right? Which is what I want them. That's what I want. Their response to me, I want them to want to be around, and I want them to go and enjoy the same things that I enjoy. But also I want them to see that because of creating those healthy, long standing relationships and friendships, it will benefit them throughout life and and where that and where that is and having a network of people that they have invested in and care enough about to invite them to go places or go spend an evening with they do and do what they're doing, right. That's what I want to have happen, growing up. And this is part of what we're talking about. My dad did not have friends, period. And when I say that, we hung out with my uncles and we hung out with some of his cousins that are part of the family that he played softball with, other than that, my dad did not go anywhere with any other adults, and it was so odd to me, that and I remember I was in my late teens and, I was looking through their wedding album and they've got the big group picture of the bridesmaids and the groomsmen, and I'm looking at this and I see my uncle, and then I see my, my other uncle in there, and then there's six other dudes that I've never seen before in my life. Right. Who are they? Make who are they? Like? Oh, well, this is so-and-so and this is so-and-so. And so my dad, how come I've never seen these people? Like, I don't have any idea who the hell they are? He goes, well, you know, life. Jay. It just, you know, jobs. And so kids away, your kids, you fall out and and I and I and I looked at him and as a, as a teenager, I was like, dad, these guys are supposed to be the most important people in your life when you got married, like they stood up there with you. And those are your dudes, and you haven't talked to them in 20 years. And he's like, yeah, you know, it just, just kind of happens. I, I would be so sad if the guys that were in my wedding that were the most important people in my life, it was five, ten, 15 years later, and I hadn't talked to them in ten years. Because what am I doing? Like, how important were they? Clearly not very fucking important if they if they've never met your kid, you know, like, I get so fired up about it because I. And so, you know, my dad's an enigma in a lot of ways. But that's not as I've talked to other friends of mine, I've told that story. They're like, yeah, it's so strict. It's so weird. Like, my dad hasn't talked to anybody that was in his wedding since 1978 or since 84, I like. And, from what I'm gathering, this was kind of a boomer thing that they got into the rut they got into. We had kids, we went to work, we did the kids stuff. We came home right? Came home, and we did it all over again. And that's just what it was. Yeah. And so I don't know if I'm, I'm the outlier or if I'm an asshole because I think that it's why I think it's vital. And you're definitely an asshole. This is true. I I'll rephrase, that I, you know, the guys that were in my wedding that that are hanging on. Well, not anymore, but who were hanging on the wall to my house. Those guys knew my kids, right? They they called them uncle because they were important to me, which meant they're important to them. And they cared about my kids, and they would come to games and they would do different stuff. So I think that though that extended relationship, and very specifically with my boys in the male interaction of having, a fraternity of guys, not specifically that you rushed into, but guys you created, you developed relationships, and you decided they're important in your life. Is is vital. Yeah. I feel like, there's just a whole lot of. Friendships or. I feel like there's a lot of cyclical nature to friendships now. Like, what do you mean? So I, I absolutely had people that were extremely important to me in my wedding. I would still call myself friends with all of them. All of our lives have gone a different direction since then. I, I as well, I'll look at a wedding photo of my parents, and I have no idea who any of these people are other than the family, like aunts and uncles. I know who they are, but anybody that was in their weddings as a friend or an acquaintance or what, I've no idea who they are. Never, never seen them in my life. What I mean by cyclical is I had a core group of people from high school that I was really close with, but even during high school, it was largely my grade school contingent that still continued to be my friends. And in high school, I got into college and I developed a almost a completely new circle of friends. There was people that were at the school, but then obviously you and I were still friends. J and we had overlap in our friend groups. And then I got out of college and made some of those college folks carry through. And I still had some of those folks from my grade school, and then some of the high school people started coming back around again. But then once the kids came around, they were a lot of that friend group was still there. But then once school for the kids started, then all of a sudden the friend group shifted to the folks that were associated with the kids school. Yeah. And then once the kids started playing sports, all of a sudden a new friend group bubbled up over here, where we're now friends with the hockey parents or the the soccer parents or the baseball parents. And now, as my kids shift out of grade school and into high school, I have a feeling there's going to be another shift of sorts. And then once my kids are out of school, I have no idea what to expect at that point. Just you. Yeah, because all of a sudden now. But those cycles have happened for everybody at that point. Yeah. And I'm and I'm I'll admit I'm not the person like you, Jay, who's every time you're in the car, you're picking up the phone, you're calling somebody, you know, like you're staying in touch with folks. I'm not doing that. I hate being on the phone. I don't want that phone call. I don't want to make that phone call. It's not because I like you less or I don't. Whatever. I'm aware, I just. I'm not. I'm not that person. But therefore, you are staying in touch with so many more people and keeping those bonds closer because you are, in fact, staying in touch. I've got nothing forcing me or keeping that connection together, and that's shame on me because I'm not doing anything to, to to contribute to it either. But I still feel like I have very strong friendships. I'm just not as close as I was when we were getting married. Yeah, but in that world, if you. So our friend group is intertwined. Yep. And so, I don't expect you to call me ever, because I know who you are and what you are about very often. But what I do, what I do think. Do you enjoy hanging out with those people still? Sure. Okay, so as long as it's not on the calendar and I'm forced to. So again, we'll, we'll we'll dive into that later. But what I, what I'm looking at here is I, I totally understand the busy nature of where we're at. And, the show, in talking about the trials and tribulations of being a grown ass, that there's, I mean, something to do all of the time. I mean, you could find something to do with your kids, or they're. It's nuts having those relationships and those people that are there for you to help when either things are good or things are bad, is is very comforting to me. It's also fulfilling for me that, you know, I'm I'm there if something bad happens. I know there's ten different guys that would call me in a heartbeat and be like, Jay, I need you, all right? I'm in. I'm. I'll be there. Yeah. So not hanging out every month or every week, but creating, a night out or, a few hour time period once or twice a year to go out and do something and keep that relationship, at least on a little bit of the forefront and catch up. And how are the kids and you know, what's going on, how big's Joe now? Oh my God, he's five seven. All right. Jeez. Us it is something that I think is healthy and cathartic, and it's something that you have, a bond in that world, and I'm. I feel I'm really, really fortunate because I have nurtured and created really, really good friendships. Great people that I consider more like family than just surface level friends. And I have many of them. And I'm proud of that. And I'm proud of them, and I'm proud of them. They're my friends. I'm proud to be part of that group. I appreciate it, but I, I think that there are a lot of people that are, in your camp that don't are exhausted or are beat down, are, just complacent, that aren't going to pick up the phone and nurture that friendship. Yep. Which is not bad. It's not a I'm not it's not a knock. I'm not taking a swing at you here, but who also would really enjoy that quarterly or biannually, 3 or 4 hour beer and a game or whatever that ends up being and there's not a whole lot of people that still do that. And when someone doesn't either invite them or takes takes the the lead on that, it just doesn't happen. And then as that goes by month, year and year, it's then, hey, we're we're out. I don't not like that person. I don't not want to hang out with that person. We just haven't hung out in years. And they. It's just okay. I'm doing my thing. Yeah. And I, I often find that when I do go spend time with the guys, I feel better, I feel I, you know, I got I got to burn off some steam. Maybe I bitched about something. Maybe we just had a great time. We made a memory. Something stupid happened. Whatever. And it regenerate, re-energize me in the world of. I don't feel like I'm in a rut. And the rut. What I see in dads in this social life becomes the norm. And then it's. You know what? It's not that I don't deserve it. It's not. They don't want it. It's just the rut. It's just where they're at. And so it's it's bums me out. But it also is I'm willing to bet that there are guys that are listening, watching. They're like, yeah, I, I really like to hang out with Steve. I haven't seen Steve in three years. Was my best friend. We had just epic memories. But Steve lives 20 minutes away and he's got four kids and I've got three kids, and it's just in the way. And, it's just what it is. Yeah. If he plans it, I'll go. Yeah. You know, Steve sounds great. Steve. Steve. But, you know, that's just, it's what you want out of life, and it's. If you don't want a social life, cool. If you are dad that wants a social life, cool. Make it happen. Yeah. And I think that dads deserve a social life. And I deserve and moms deserve a social life. 100%. So I, I well, let me, let me let me end with this question because I think that this is I feel like the the last question of each episode so far has been somewhat of, a guidance type question. So what advice would you give to a new dad or a young man who, about keeping those friendships, alive or or, I don't I don't know if I'm asking it. Right. Well, I think I understand you. You want them to be all in at home? You want them to be, you know, a good father, a good husband. What? But you also like, what advice would you give to someone, either about the importance of that or directly about how do you foster and maintain those relationships? So I, I would say that you need to have a, an open dialog with your spouse, your significant other, and talk about what you expect or what you want, what's happening. And because things are very different, you get married, things are slightly different. You have that first kid. Things are drastically different. You have that second kid. Things are again different. And you time get sucked up. Everybody's trying to figure out what their role and how they're doing, what they're doing, and having that communication with your significant other and be like, hey, listen, I you know, I got these three dudes that are my dudes and I, they're, they're my favorite people to hang out with. And I and I, and I want to continue that even though I'm, I'm life is going to take the place of a lot of different things. So briefly, I played softball five nights a week and played hockey one night a week, and I played basketball one night a week, and and I didn't do anything on Saturdays. So as that math goes, there were one night where I had two sports that I played on on that night, and I did that from when I was 20 to 23 until I was like 30. That can't continue as you have kids and all that stuff. So you start whittling it down and now it's four nights, now it's three nights, now it's two nights. And so I talked with my ex-wife and I was like, two nights is my minimum. I'm going to play two nights a week. That's what's going to happen because it keeps me sane. I love it. This is what this is. We've we've identified I'm a weirdo and I'm a little bit unique. Let's say that you don't do any of that sort of stuff. If you do value those friendships and you do want to keep that in play, you have to be just a little bit of a planner and you have to say, hey, I, you know, I'm I'm going to try and do something once a month or once a week or once a quarter with my dudes. And in that communication and you talk to your significant other and like, hey, this is going to be my night out with these guys, and this is what we're going to do. And within reason, like there, I don't expect your wife to be cool with it. If you're like, hey, we going out? The last Saturday of every month, and we're going to, go to the strip club, we're going to run a bunch of lines of coke. We're, we're we're we're looking at hookers, maybe. And then I'll be home sometime Monday morning. Yeah. Okay. That's probably not a great choice, but when you hey, we're going to go out for a few beers and we're gonna go watch a game. I'm going to be we're going to, you know, I'm going to be out five, six hours. Whatever. I'll be home. Took a dark turn, you know, but everything's within reason, right? Yeah. Everybody and and so, they if you can keep in touch with that situation and have some social time for yourself, that is whether that's a weekly golf league or whatever that ends up being, you can maintain those relationships and you communicate correctly with your significant other. And if your relationship is strong, which hopefully it's great that significant other goes, hey, Jake, that sounds awesome. That's that's great. We know that. That's your thing. Go do your thing and let's let's go do it. The, to your point, when we started, if you don't communicate effectively and you're like, hey, I'm going out. And then she's like, okay, when are you coming back? I don't know, later. And then you go out there, you don't text or you don't let her know what's happening. That's going to create anxiety and animosity and different shit that's going to bubble up and make that not nearly as productive and not nearly as fun. Right? So, that's what I would that's what I would suggest communicate correctly. And whether you calendar is it and you whatever schedule some time, schedule some social events and it will make you a better dad and a better husband because you're not, resentful. You're not just sitting there in your rut and grinding it out. I promise you, you're going to be happier. Yeah, I guarantee it. When was the last time that you went hung out with your dudes and had a really good time and came home like, that sucked. That's. That was the worst. It doesn't happen. Yeah, and you're not. And you're probably not mad the next day. You're probably in a great mood. You're probably do something really fun with your kids. Yeah, because you had a great time, right? Right. So I don't, you know, that's what I would. That's what I think. What about you, Jason? What what advice would you give, a new dad or a young dad or a young man who is is trying to balance social life, family life, all of those things. I'm struggling with this one. I guess largely because one of the things we've established here for me is I. I don't feel that there's a need or a requirement to have a social life. I think it's it's healthy and it's a, it's a good thing to have. But I am and maybe it's because I'm in the rut. Maybe, maybe, maybe that's what it is. And I don't even I'm not even calling myself in a rut. But maybe I'm in a rut. I don't know. But, I was I was thinking about it while you guys were talking, and I was I was going down the path of maybe it's something that has to be more routine. So therefore you just get used to it and you know that it's coming up. And but then I defaulted to the Monday Golf League. I'm the same Monday golf League as you. Right. I loved it for the first year. And now I'm getting to Sunday evening and going, I don't really want to play golf tomorrow. I don't think I'm going to want to play tomorrow and I don't. And you one two weeks ago I did. I haven't even been back yet. Like I didn't go this week because I couldn't. I could be awful. It was a very low attendance week, I'm not going to lie. Awful. When, when when the, I wasn't there when the rosters full doesn't happen when there's only like 7 or 8 groups of play. I have a chance. Right? Right. Guy that came in second had one leg. Yeah. I think, my my suggestion if there, if there is one is just is to be open to it, not to lose complete and total connection with your friend circle. Yes. You're going to get sucked into things with your kids. You're going to get sucked into things with your wife, and it gets sucked in. Is is a is a really bad way for me to put it. You're you're going to you're going to develop obligations to your wife and your kids and things like that. Don't don't allow them to completely take your life away from what you want to be doing. But at the same time, if that's what you want to be doing, that's also okay. Yeah. Right. If if spending every weekend at home or, or doing things with your family is what's making you feel whole on the inside, do it. So be it, right? I don't think I would recommend completely isolating ourselves. I mean, I, I, I do that a lot. And, sometimes I feel bad about it, sometimes I don't. I do agree with you whole heartedly that those times that I do get together with a friend group and we just go out and and have a, have a, we don't even get crazy anymore. I mean, we're just we're literally going to the blarney and watching a game or whatever. So I got out of a hotel last week. That's fair enough. I, I don't know, I'm I'm struggling with it. Okay. That's right. The social life concept is, is is is, evading me a little bit. Bones, what's your advice? My advice is. You don't have. First of all, it's more of a, quality over quantity. Because I think in the past, I was more of a quantity person of, like, everybody I want to be. I want to go out with everybody and hang out with everybody. Be friends with everybody. And that's for the birds. I think I think the things that I've learned is when adversity strikes, which inevitably in life it does. I learned this when when my mom got sick. The, the people that reach out to you that you would not expect to reach. So, like a perfect example, one of my best buds, guy named Bobby was at my wedding, when when I went through some shit, he reached out to me and was like, hey, you want to go for a walk? Now? Bobby is also the guy who. And I've been friends with them for 20 plus years who, will, like, give you a nut shot. And then when you go down, like, give you a dead leg and pour a bush beer on your head and he's 40. Well, not anymore. Oh, okay. But but he's my age. But when when that dude reached out to me and gave me love in a time when I desperately needed it because I wasn't going to give it to myself, and I felt like the world was falling apart forever and ever and ever, I was like, that was probably uncomfortable for that cat to do. Like, that was probably a difficult phone call for him to make. And he made it. That's my guy. Like, and I have a few of those I have, you know, I have a few of those guys, but those those are the people who, no matter what, like I want to maintain connection with. Yeah. I don't need connection with the the guy that I met two years ago or five years ago or seven years ago, who I hit it off with, and I know all the things about, and we watch all the stuff together and we, we text about the bullshit like, that's all vain bullshit. The real connections that you have on a life level. Those are the relationships that I lean into big time. And that's my advice. Fine. Those cats find the people who, when you make really when you do really great things, they make fun of you. And when you fuck up and you're in a bad spot, they pick you up. Yeah, those are the dudes. Okay, that's that's one thing I want to throw out. Then to kind of change my answer a little bit. Okay. Yeah. What he said and what he said. Oh, you just hold on. I changed my answer. My mind is going to be Bobby, Bobby, I Bobby, I don't I don't care how much you don't want to go out or you don't want to do this or you don't want to do that. Be Bobby. Bobby that he's going to love this. I don't think he even knows I'm on a fucking podcast. He's going to love this. Bobby. Bobby needs to get out there, subscribe and like and and do all that good stuff. So, Bobby, how why? We we live in an age right now where whether or not you're on the phone with friends all the time, or you're keeping up on social media, or you're hearing through the through the weeds or through through the what were they say, grapevine? The grapevine is what I'm talking for. They're looking for, weeds through the weeds. Fine. Just let me go. You you know what's going on with people? Yeah. I don't talk on the phone unless I need to. Or I feel like it's a necessity or it's an in person thing for me. You were dealing with some shit. I went to your house, and I was there, and I'm not. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here. But you went radio silent on me on the phone a handful of weeks ago. Or whatever it is. Reach out to make sure you're okay. Yeah. Those, those those things to me are ten times more important than, hey, let's make sure we're having a beer every week or every two weeks or every three weeks, no doubt. Be social, I think. I think it it is important to be social, but more than anything, make sure you stay Bobby and you make sure you're still in touch. If you're in somebody's wedding, stay in touch with that person. Be Bobby and and don't let that fade just because everybody's going through different cycles in their life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One last thing and I'll ask you this question. If you if you talk to someone twice a year. Yeah. Are they, are they still eligible to be one of your best friends in life. Yeah. So I got a perfect I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna name drop one more. Okay. So, my brother's one of my brother's best friends. This dude named Todd. They were super tight. My brother passed away. Todd and I got really close. I bet I talked to Todd. I bet I see him every four years, okay? And I bet I talk to him on the phone every two years. Okay? And I bet I text him 3 to 10 times a year, depending on if the cardinals are good or not good or whatever. That dude, I can pick up with him like that. Sure. Like like we didn't even skip a beat. We didn't miss anything. Those are the kind of like, be Bobby Todd, be those dudes, be the be the people who you don't need to try with because it's funny. Because when I was in my when I was in my bullshit and I was, you know, a mess, I didn't communicate with the people that knew me. I didn't communicate with Todd. I didn't communicate with Bobby because they knew I was full of shit. They knew I was on my bullshit, and they probably would have called me out on it. And certainly that's not what I needed. So I, I surrounded myself by people that I could create a version of myself that was opportunistic to the vision that I needed at the moment. But once I fell, those were the cats that were there to pick me up. Yeah, there there's the dude. And the reason I ask that question is, there is one of my very, very best friends on the planet who would do anything for me.

It is 10: 1:05:32

00 at night right now on a Thursday. He gets up at 330 in the morning every day. I could call him right now and say, hey, man, I'm in trouble. And there would be no question. There would be no. He would be like, I'm on my way. Text me an address. Yeah, whatever that is. I see him twice a year and there are two planned events and we determined we have tons of stuff going on. He's got three kids. He's got a really high profile job. His wife works at ton. They have a lot, a lot, a lot going on. We schedule two events a year. One is a weekend float trip and the other one is basically Thanksgiving. And we hang out on those two days a year and that's it. Yeah. The rest of the time we'll we'll trade a few tacks we make. We may talk maybe once a month. The moment that we are standing next to one another. It is if we saw each other yesterday. Yeah. Yep. And he is the dude and he is a guy that, was in my wedding and it it's not we are not, not hanging out because we don't like each other. Because we don't want to plan stuff. We don't. It's just it just doesn't work out. Yeah. And so it's really funny because we leave the float trip and we come back to Saint Louis and I'm like, all right, dude, I'll see you. No, see you in November. And it's like, yeah, we should try and get together before that. But we're not, so we don't know. We won't. We'll see in November. No chance. But you know, and what I bet is that when his kids are more grown up and they're in high school and out of high school, and my kids are more grown up, I'd be willing to bet we have, like, a weekly standing appointment at some point. We'll be 50 years old, 55 years old, and we'll have, Thursday happy hour at one of our favorite bars or whatever is going to say like coffee or breakfast or. No, no, don't be ridiculous. And we'll and and it would be. And I guarantee you that neither one of us misses a week because we we enjoy hanging out and bullshitting about whatever. But at this point in time, this is what this needs to be. I'm not mad at him. He's not mad at me. Nothing happened. Our relationship is probably stronger and more meaningful now than it was when we were kids growing up. Right? It's just the circumstances around it. It is what it is. And each of us understand each other at a very, very high level. And when I did go through the divorce a couple of years ago, that dude was there. And I mean there in a major way. And it's like, hey, whatever you need. I mean, he came in, he actually slept at my house because he's like, hey, man, I don't know what to say, but you're an absolute trainwreck. And so I'm just going to hang out. Yeah, that's the dude. That's the. And you need those. You need those dudes. Anyway. But that this, I mean, this derailed slightly from social life and should dads have a social life but in that. So I'm surprised we kept it on the rails this long. It, you know, the social life is friends in having a social life with people you care about or that are important to you. Yeah, is what it is. Because let's be real, having a social life with people that you don't care about, you it's never is a disaster. Yeah. Because you have so much, as there's the dad, right? You have so much shit going on. You're not planning something or going out with some ass clowns that you don't care about at all if you see ever again. Right? So, that's why my my social life and why I'm saying unequivocally, dads, having a social life is imperative to the level that they want if they're honest with themselves. Yeah. And so doing that and creating those bonds and those long time bonds and people that are going to be there for you and shit hits the fan is imperative. And if you get in that rut and you go two, three, four years without seeing somebody, that's a pretty fucking special person. If you reach out to them out of the blue four years later like, hey, man, I need you, you're like, who the fuck is this? Why, why, why are you why are you you don't have any other friends other than like so it's it's imperative for me because of continuing to create that fraternity, that very tight fraternity of people that you can count on and your own mental health of just having some fun and and doing something for you when you, as a dad, spend most of your life doing for others, right? Well, I, I thought, this is a great episode. I thought, this is a good topic. I'm glad that you you brought it up. If you got something from this episode, please leave us a comment. If you're if you're watching on YouTube, subscribe to the channel. If you're not listening and you're listening on, on, Apple Podcast or Spotify, please, like, like our podcast. And just tell us what you think. Tell us what you think. If you have any, other topics that you want to hear or if you have something to say about this, drop us a line and let us know. Jay, I you know, I, I agree completely. I think one of the things I want to point out, too, is, do us a favor. Do yourself a favor to everybody, favor and subscribe to the show, because that helps us grow and helps us know that we're we're doing something right. But at the same time, we've I've heard from a lot of people that are like, oh, I didn't even know your next episode was out. We're working on ways to better communicate that. But the easiest way to know that a new episode is available is to make sure you're subscribing. You're going to get a notification from whatever your podcast platform is. So hop out there, subscribe, like spread the word as much as you possibly can. For us, we'd appreciate it. We got some merch coming here soon, so be on the lookout for that. Other than that, just looking forward to what lies ahead because we're having some fun, that's for sure. Send us a bourbon recommendation. Yeah. Appreciate you boys. Grown ass dads at gmail.com. Love you, buddy. Grown ass dads out.