Not Alone: Healing Trauma Through Faith, Therapy & Compassionate Support | Anne Marie Richardson

Not Alone: Healing Trauma Through Faith, Therapy & Compassionate Support | Anne Marie Richardson
https://www.annemarierichardson.com/about
Host Tanya Roundy interviews author and spiritual director Anne Marie Richardson about her Christ-centered trauma recovery work and “Not Alone” groups for women. Richardson shares her spiritual background, a midlife crisis that surfaced unresolved wounds, and how therapy, spiritual practices, grief, and forgiveness helped her heal childhood sexual abuse and family anger dynamics. She explains that trauma is caused by people, not God, and describes learning healthy anger, self-compassion, and self-care. Richardson discusses sharing survivor stories, creating a “Not Alone” workbook, and leading small groups covering shame, trust, grief, fear, control, addictions, and relationships. She offers guidance for survivors on safely telling their story, seeking therapy and support groups, and understanding body-based trauma responses. She also outlines how to accompany survivors through compassionate listening, avoiding platitudes, knowing when to refer, and offers trainings and books via annmarierichardson.com and Amazon.

00:00 Welcome and Introductions
00:58 Faith Journey and Midlife Crisis
03:26 Childhood Trauma Revealed
04:07 Shame and Trust Struggles
05:12 Learning Healthy Anger
08:07 Grief Forgiveness and Letters
11:09 Desert Season Reflections
13:03 Sharing Story and Not Alone
16:19 Group Format and Topics
19:10 Practical Steps for Survivors
23:01 Gods Love and Self Compassion
24:54 Self Care and Healing
26:04 Paris Art and Fatherly Love
27:18 Rejection to Published Author
32:39 Accompanying Survivors Basics
34:39 Compassionate Listening Skills
38:40 When to Refer Out
43:36 Training for Clergy
46:56 Books Links and Final Hope

In a world full of uncertainty, how does one cope with unbearable loss and pain? A Christmas tragedy finds Steve and Maria struggling to find hope. With the love and support of family and friends, will they find peace as they walk through the fire of Uncertainty?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome, welcome everyone. I am so excited to be here today with you. This is Roundy's Rants, Raves and Reviews. I'm Tanya Roundy, your host. And today I am joined by an author and advocate and an amazing person. So will you introduce yourself and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yes. Hi, Tanya, and hi everyone. And thank you for having me today. My name is Ann Richardson. I'm an author and a spiritual director. And I'm a leader of not alone trauma groups for women. And so that's kind of what I do. And I'll share a little bit of my story.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Absolutely. Yes. I'd love to hear, let's share your story with our guests and everyone about our audience. What it what got you into writing and going on this journey? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Well, a little bit of my background story. I was I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school, but then in college I started to wander a bit. And probably wandered in many different Protestant churches. And I think I was searching for something, the relationship with Christ. So I tell people now, I'm both Catholic, both Protestant, neither Catholic or Protestant. I'm a Christ follower. So that's a little bit about my spiritual background. But where I had I went deeper with God was during a pivotal moment in midlife. So I had a midlife crisis. I was working at this church and this women's mentoring ministry. And when on my 50th birthday, someone who was on the board called me up and just attacked my integrity as a leader. So when I hung up at the phone, I just sunk down into this fetal position and cried. And most people sided with me. And another leader said, you need to go fix this. So we met in person and talked it out. And what happened was I did something that triggered her childhood pain. And her attack triggered mine. So but I was still stuck. I didn't know quite why I made it like this. So what happened was I needed to step out of ministry. I knew there was a wound there that needed tending to, and I felt nudged by God to step out and come away with him in the desert. Not a physical desert, but a place of silence and solitude. I was meeting with my spiritual director and learning a lot of different spiritual practices. And then I also spent a lot of time alone with God. And then I also went into therapy. And so in therapy, I discovered how my childhood wounds affected me. I was molested by my best friend's father. There were a lot of us little girls in the neighborhood. It was like a Hansel and Gretel story. Fun, parties, dress up, cake, candy, you name it, but there was an evil witch, or should I say, monster. And I kept that a secret for a very long time. So that shame was embedded inside me. And that was a wound there. And so that woman from the board unintentionally poked it. And that's exactly what happened. So I also had trust issues. I trusted people in authority. I didn't always trust my own intuition. And I had trust issues with God. You know, why does God allow something like this to happen? And I'll share a little bit more about that later, but I learned that God does not cause trauma. People do.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

So I also discovered the shame left me with struggling with confidence at times. I might feel confident, I might not. At times I didn't feel good enough. At times I didn't feel worthy. It just I struggled with that. And I had that kind of that black cloud over me. And I just really didn't want to live like that anymore. I did, I didn't. I really wanted the healing and I wanted to take my life back. So so I and I also I also struggled with anger because my dad, although he was a very good and moral man, he was also a rage a holic. And so he took out a lot on my mother and some on me. So I interpreted growing up that anger is bad.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Anger is bad, I'm bad. If anyone's mad at me, I'm bad. So as a little girl, I'd run away from that. I'd also run away from Mr. Berger, who was the perpetrator, which was healthy. But as an adult, running away from anger or any kind of a negative emotion is not healthy. So I would avoid conflict, and that would hurt my relationships because, as you know, if you're going to be in relationships with people, conflict's inevitable.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

So I had to unlearn that anger was bad. Actually, and that's another thing. I would stuff it. See, if I felt bad, I thought if I felt angry, I was bad. And then stuffing anything, especially anger, it's like this volcano, and then all of a sudden it's gonna come out and go spew. So I had a few of those episodes too.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah, I think we've all had those.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

So I had to learn that anger was a human emotion. It warns us that something's not right. And I can get angry, it's okay, but in a healthy way, not a harmful way. And so I had to learn how to do that and how to express it to another person. And then I also was taught that, excuse me, anger is a secondary emotion, and there are many emotions that lie beneath. And so I would spend time with God and just explore what those emotions were. Like, for example, hurt is very common, and that's gonna lead to forgiveness. Fear is gonna lead to courage. Shame's gonna lead to being grounded as the beloved of God, and so on. And so that's that is where I'm at now. It's taken time, it's taken years, and I tell I say this a lot. Therapy was necessary and insightful, but deeper healing has come from God. And by spending the time with Him, engaging in various spiritual practices, it's just made a world of difference. So the other thing that really helped me too was to go through a period of grief. I had to grieve over what happened to me and everything else around it. Maybe the loss of the healthy childhood, being sexualized before I was ready. I had to grieve all that. And that's that's a process, it comes, it goes. No two people grieve the same. And then I had to go through a time of forgiveness and letting go. And as I journeyed with other survivors, this is a tough one. There's a lot of resistance there. And I often say this does not mean that when you forgive or let go, that they're off the hook, or that their behavior was okay, or that you have to reconcile because you don't. But it does let a lot of that anger, resentment, bitterness off your hook and let God hold it and take care of it. And so I found that I found ways to release my anger in a healthy way, not at another person. And then I wrote, I chose to write letters, and that was very, I didn't mail them, but that the writing was very therapeutic for me. This is where a lot of writing and a lot of the spiritual practices involved journaling. So it was very therapeutic. And I didn't, there's a reason for that, but I didn't know that at the time. I could just feel it. And so I wrote letters to my dad, I wrote letters to Mr. Berger. And by the time I had done my healing, Mr. Berger had passed, but I was able to release him even without an apology. And it took time. And then my dad, the same thing. I remember towards the end of his life, I finally found enough courage to use my voice. So when he started yelling at me, I yelled back and I said, I'm not taking this anymore. And I was so intense, and he he never yelled at me after that. And then I was leaving his room. This was towards the end of his life, and he was in a home, and I turned around, I said, I love you, Dad. And he said, I love you too, honey. And that was probably one of the first times I ever recall him saying that. So I'm at peace with my father, even though I didn't get an apology, and I say this a lot. I now I can be grateful for what my father gave me, and I let go what he could not. Because my father had a lot of unresolved grief and trauma, and then that comes out in rage.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

And that's the truth, right? So much of this generational things. I was just thinking about that desert you're talking about, of going through this time. And I think each of us have to go through a desert. I mean, when we go to the Bible, I mean, how many years did the Israelites have to wander in a desert literally? But what they were going through spiritually was also that desert, right? And Christ himself went to the desert and to his 40 days of fasting and stuff to get prepare himself for what he was going to go through as a ministry and whatnot. I mean, and he was perfect, and but those things that we each have to go through our own deserts, I think, to figure out ourselves and our place with God and Christ within that, and whether it's through therapy or scriptures or all of it, which it should be, right? But I loved what you said also about the true healing coming from God. Because we can go through all this other stuff, but unless we get with God and do that, our hearts can't be healed fully without that peace there. And forgiveness, you're right, forgiveness is so hard, but it's not for the other person. We're not forgiving them for their sake. It's really about us because what when we're holding on to that, what it does to us, it creates that volcano like you were talking about, right? And that just brought all these things to my mind that I'm just like so much stuff all packed in there that was like so powerful that it's making me think about some things that I probably need to go and reflect on and go some go back to my desert for a minute and maybe not 40 years, but take and do some time in the desert again with my Lord to work on some things for sure. And and through that journey, then what did how have you taken that and moved on with that? And what are you doing with this story and with this information you've found then?

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Well, after after some time of healing, after several years, and by the way, I always say healing is lifelong.

unknown 13:13

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

But after a few years, and I I was feeling a little bit more grounded, not fully, but better. And I felt God nudge me to share my story, and that was very scary. I'll bet. But I did, and to my surprise, a lot of other women started sharing, and some men started sharing their stories with me.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

It's interesting you say men, because we always forget about the men, but really, there's quite a few isn't there out there with suffering in there as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Yes. Stats, statistics say one out of three women and one out of six men will experience some kind of sexual trauma in their lifetime. And the majority of perpetrators are by someone you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

That is an incredibly large number, considering how many human beings we have.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yes, and it can be anywhere from non-contact, exposing oneself, exposing someone to porn, taking nude photos without their permission to contact, which is anything from bondling or intercourse to violent rape.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Well, back on track. Sorry. I just was like, that just blew my mind, like that that that number there. So you started to share your story and you started seeing people come out of this and connect with it. What does that do for you and for them when we share that story?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Well, it when therapists disagree on this, whether to share your story or not. So I always say if it triggers any kind of PTSD or trauma, don't share it. But for me, it was healing. Every time I share my healing, my story, it's healing. And other women have said the same thing. So what I found was that I felt another nudge and to take these stories that I've been listening to with their permission, write them up and gather all these spiritual practices, and I put them in a workbook called Not Alone. And I've been leading those groups now for 10 years. So when I speak to others, I'm speaking out of my experience, you know, as a as a survivor and as someone who's come along, other survivors. And so that is part of my ministry is not alone.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

I think that is the biggest thing is so many people don't share and don't speak up because they feel like they're alone and they feel like there's no one who will understand. But the grief one out of three and one out of six, there's definitely someone who's going to understand. And I think you're right. I think it's everyone at their own time, but how empowering it is to share your story because then you own it and it's no longer got control over you in there. And how blessed are you to take their stories and to help bring them a voice as well in that book and those things. Do you work with mostly women in your not alone things, or is it men and women, or what is the makeup of your not alone groups that you're working in?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

The not alone groups are just for women right now. I know there needs to be something for men. I've heard that, but I don't think I'm the right person. Um, so with women, it's they're very small, limited to six. It's usually over a four to five month period for about a total of 13 sessions. And the topics include being grounded as the beloved, overcoming shame, trusting God, healthy anger, grief, and forgiveness. And then we go over fear, control, worry, idolatry, addictions. And then finally, we talk about having healthier relationships. Because as we heal and get healthier with ourselves, with God, hopefully our relationships will get healthier too.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

And that would usually be the result, right? Because when we're healthier, we can have healthier relationships, not with just God, but also other people. Well, even if men can't have a group, I'm sure there's groups out there. I will, I really hope so. And I will try to see if I can find something about that to us here as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

But I know, Tanya, I know a few men who might know more about that too. Like my colleague, my colleague Joe Lonergan is my age, he's also a survivor of a molestation. And he and I have done workshops together for ministers, clergy, family. And then we'll do that. And then we also do, we've done some teaching together on how to do spiritual direction with survivors of trauma. So he's he's wonderful, he's done a lot of healing work and a great resource. So I can offer his information to anyone who's that would be wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

So that's sure. I'm sure there's some men here or somewhere, someone we know that will need that information. Now, while maybe your groups are small, and maybe we need to find a place to help and guide men and women too that can't get in. You do have your workbook, which you you've published and stuff, so that even if they can't get into those groups, they can start the work at least. That's at least good. So, in your workbook and in through in your thing, in your workshops, what are some guidance or tips or things like this that you give to survivors themselves individually to begin with?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So, so for those of you who are listening or survivors, I don't know where you're at in your journey, but if you haven't really shared it yet, I just want to say you're not alone. You're not alone. I just want you to be empowered and take your life back. It is possible. I know it. And I would share, if you haven't shared your story at all, I would share it with God. Actually, I'd write it out. And some people have said, Oh, that's scary. Oh, I don't want anyone to find it. I say, hide it. One woman put a password on a file on her computer, another per person hid it under her mattress, wherever. So it's just between you and God, and then read it out loud because something happens when we release that. It's like these chains are being let go of. Then I would say find a safe person to share your story with. Maybe someone you know that you trust, or maybe it with a therapist or a pastoral counselor that you trust, sharing it with somebody else, another, you're getting that out, you're releasing it. I would definitely find a good therapist. You can ask for an interview and see what their background is and make sure that you're it's a good fit and you feel comfortable with this person. And then I would suggest finding a good, safe support group. I did that as well. I was fortunate that I had some women I already knew, and we formed a little support group. We called ourselves the three amigas. So I just highly recommend that you find, I don't, you could look in your area, what's available. You could ask for referrals from someone you trust, but find a good, safe support group because we were meant to be in community and not to go on this journey alone. Yes. Another thing is just be aware of the body. Trauma gets trapped in there, gets trapped in the brain, it gets trapped in the body. So when you have reactions, you're not going crazy. Good to know. I've had people say they get really shaky, and you know, you're not going crazy. You might want to talk to a therapist about it or find a somatic practitioner. This is more popular now, and they have different practices to do with the body to help release that. I also want to say you were a victim, but you no longer are. You don't have. Stay there. You can take responsibility for yourself, for your behavior, and not blame another, and not blame yourself. So a lot of victims of abuse, especially children, blame themselves. I somehow deserved it. I somehow caused it. I'm not worthy. It's all my fault. And the truth is, it's not your fault. And another truth is abuse has no excuse. And to not blame yourself for the behaviors that came out of it. Like one woman I journeyed with because she was sexually molested as a child became very promiscuous. So she was looking for love in all the wrong places, as that song goes from Long Airlines. And she had to forgive herself for that piece. Yeah. And then spent time with God. He does not condemn you. Certainly does not shame. When I look at all the ways Jesus treated these women in the scripture, the bleeding woman, the Samaritan woman, the woman caught in adultery. There's so many. And he loves you more than you know. And I know you might not feel like that, and you might be angry at God, and that's normal. Like, why, God, did you let this happen to me? Why didn't you stop it? Why? You know, I've come, like I said earlier, I've come to know that I don't know why, and I don't try to answer it. And I don't believe it's some plan God had for my life or for your life or any kind of tragedy. But I go with what I do know. I do know that all things can work together for good, and God can transform and heal. And I do know deep within how much I'm valued and loved by him. And that's what I go with. That's what I tell people God is so infinite. And you know, people want to put God in a box, it doesn't work. And so hold what I know of God and what is unknown, the infinite, and I can hold them together. And I just also want to say, practice self-compassion. Okay, practice. I'm on a hard journey, I'm doing a good job, I'm stepping out, I'm forgiving myself, I'm forgiving others, I'm gonna heal. Just have that compassion. I'm loved, I'm valued, I like me. And then have good self-care. This is especially true for a lot of women. They get so busy, or others' people's needs are more important, and they don't take the time out to take care of themselves, take care of yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually. And then, you know, I just want to encourage you that healing takes time, often a lifetime, but you can become more grounded and freer to live, to be who God created you to be, to see you as God sees you and to live out your purpose. So if it's all right, I'd like to share a little positive story here.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Absolutely. I would love to hear one because I'd love to see how your work works together. Because I think all of us, whether it's sexual trauma or anything, we've all had some kind of trauma in our life. And I think these are all really good for anyone. I'm like, I'm sitting here going, I need some of this, a lot of this actually. So I would love to hear a great positive story of how this has worked, so that I can help see how I can work it in my life for sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Well, I'm gonna give you a little background.

unknown 26:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

So when I was in my 20s, I went to Europe and went to Paris and to the Louvre, and I fell in love with the artist, Georges de Latour. Have you heard of him?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

I have heard of Georges Latour, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

You have heard of him.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

I have heard of him.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yes, most people have not. Yeah, so that's amazing. So I fell in love with him because he had a way of capturing the candlelight and the reflection on their faces and their eyes. It's beautiful. And my favorite painting was called Joseph the Carpenter, and it's of Joseph, and he's in a child, Jesus, he looks like about seven, seven, eight. And Jesus is holding a candle, and Joseph is looking at him, and the gaze in their eyes is just very loving. That father-son, healthy father-son. And I fell in love, I bought a print, I hung at my home for years, but you know, time goes on, and with many moves, it became worn and tattered, had to throw it away. It's in the 20s, in the 30s, I'd say mid-late 30s. I really wanted to be a travel writer. I always kind of dreamed of writing. I think there was something in me, but because of that shame, it held me back. So I got a I wanted to be a little travel writer, and my uncle Art was very good at it, and he worked for a local newspaper, and they sent him on all kinds of trips, and he'd write it up. So he gave me some tips and et cetera. So I get gathered all this and I took my family. We went up to Yosemite and I wrote a beautiful article on what to see and what to do. Took it home, typed it up, sent it out, and all I got was rejection. So I quit. That was that shame saying, You're not enough. You can't do this. So I quit. Now we're gonna fast forward to early February of 2019. A dear nun I know gave me a suggestion. She says, I think you ought to write an article for human development. It's a magazine. And she goes on trauma and accompanying people. And right away, it's like, I don't know if I can do that. I'm not sure, maybe, but there was something in me that said, try again. Because I had done some healing now, right? So this is I'd done some healing, a little more grounded. Yep. So okay, so I wrote it up, I submitted it. In June of 2019, my husband and I went to Paris. Now, this is many years later. Right. And there, right away, went the Louvre. Where's Georges de la Tour? And I found the painting, and there it was. And I think I really embraced it this time because I had felt the father's love, not the father. So I go home, and then in September 2019, my very first article was published in human development on accompanying survivors and trauma. And they sent me a copy and I opened it up, and guess what was on the cover of the magazine?

SPEAKER_01 29:52

That same picture. Oh my god. Oh wow. God is in the details.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Just saying, people. My jaw dropped. I couldn't, I was just floored. And so it says here, together Joseph and Jesus discovered the light of the heavenly father's gifts and calls. So I felt gifted and called to write. I published my first book that year. I've published since then and other articles. And I just want to tell other survivors or anybody, don't give up on your dreams. Don't give up. Try not to just see the rejection or the failure and try to look at it maybe as a growth or an opportunity or there's an obstacle and work through it because you are gifted and called and you have a purpose.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

We certainly do have a purpose. I really love what you've been saying here about the the the that picture itself and the name of it too, because Joseph the Carpenter and who he wasn't just sculpting wood. He wasn't just building a wood and objects. He was building a child. He was building who God knew Jesus needed to be to fulfill his mission and his purpose, right? And I think it was going back to what you were talking about with what we're going through and how God can transform those experiences, because each of us has agency and each of us has things and we can't stop what other people do and those choices, but God can take what happens and sculpt us and be the ultimate carpenter in our lives to build us into who we're supposed to be so that we can do our purpose and create that purpose and those things, which I think is so incredible that that all just came together with me. And I'm never gonna look at that picture, I'm gonna have to go look it up and do some contemplating on that picture now. Like I haven't looked at that picture in a while, but that just like got me doing some rethinking on that as well, and the beauty of that message within that picture, but also with what happened to you in that story with that picture. And I just oh I'm giddy. I'm so excited right now. But through that, I love that your article is accompanying the survivors because you've given all these tips and things for these survivors and what they're going through because they're healing and they're going through and you were healing, but they're not alone in going through this, and uh it doesn't have to be just a survivor that can help them on this journey. You I if I remember right, you wrote a book too for us as accompanyers on how we can go through this. Tell me, what can we do to accompany these survivors and help them on their way?

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, so just a brief background. I just as I was journeying with survivors and not alone, they started telling me all these hurtful things that people have said to them that just embed the shame. And although it's not, and even people in the church, family members, clergy, you know, it just and it's not intentional, it's just people don't know what to do and say, and this is a very uncomfortable topic. It's very uncomfortable, but I did see a need, and that's why my second Not Alone book not only has more stories and practices, but it has a second part on how to accompany, because I saw that need. So for you, whether you're a family member, friend, ministry leader, clergy, whatever your role is, I just want to encourage you that if they've shared a little bit of their story with you, that you're a safe person for them. Because safety is really key. So if they share a little bit, they might and look and see how you respond. So I just I encourage you just to be aware of your body language and how you respond, because I had a woman who came to me who was very upset. She sat with a survivor, she didn't know it, and the survivor blurted it out. You know, my brother molested me and she did this. Oh no. And the person, the survivor, got up and left, and that was the end of their relationship. And she felt so bad. And I said, please don't beat yourself up. The same thing, don't beat yourself up. It's very difficult. You can apologize, but that's why we do. I wrote the book and did do the trainings on what to do and say, so then you can ask if you're comfortable, they share a little bit. Say, would you like to share more or share whatever comfortable? The person knows what's comfortable for them and what's not. But just your demeanor of being willing to listen, if you are, it just can open the door. I would offer compassionate listening. Just listen. We live in a world where listening is becoming a lost art. But just listen, you know, with good eye contact, not your head. Just let your posture show that you're there. You don't need a degree to offer compassionate listening. Try not to fix, advise, interrupt, or offer Christian platitudes or other platitudes from your tradition. It it's I know some things are true, like God can heal you, but if you that could come across as I don't want to hear what you have to say, and I'm just giving you advice right now. Um, and put aside any judgments because they could be confessing something to you, like the promiscuity or an addiction or something else. Try to put them aside and just and be present, be accepting because they've been really wounded. And assure them it's not their fault. The abuse was not their fault. Because I've heard that. I shouldn't have gone out with him, I shouldn't have gone into the apartment with him, I shouldn't have gone to the bar, I shouldn't have been wearing that dress, I shouldn't have yeah, I should have told somebody, I should have done, yeah, shoulda, shoulda, shoulda, shoulda, mm-mm. Yeah. So don't, you know, encourage them, it's not their fault. And that they and then, you know, encourage them too that they're on a difficult journey and they're doing a good job. Yeah. Try not to put another label on them in your head and try not to compare. A lot of people do that. Well, yours wasn't so bad. I had people do that to me, you know. Well, yours wasn't so bad, and that was a long time ago. You're over it now, it's no big deal. So I did what my psychologist said, I minimized it. And my psychologist was actually the first person who showed compassionate listening and a compassion statement to me when she said, I'm so sorry that happened to you. And that's another thing, you know. Offer, I forgot to mention, offer a compassion statement. You know, I'm sorry that happened to you. That must have been painful. I can't imagine what you went through. I'm here for you. Something. Yeah. Then after they're done sharing, whatever they're comfortable with, just thank them. Thank you for sharing your story with me or your precious story, or thank you for trusting me with your story. Then at some point, depending on your relationship with them, you can ask, what has helped you in the past? So this gives them the opportunity to say, you know, I've done therapy, or I did a 12-step, or I did a church, you know, gathering, whatever they did. Because I think referring is important, but referring too soon. Well, have you seen a therapist? You need a therapist, can sound a little dismissive at first. Yeah. So that's what you can ask. And then it is good to know when to refer. So, like, for example, if you're a ministry leader or pastoral counselor or whatever, you you're gonna want to know when to refer. I would have a list available of various therapists, maybe a psychiatrist, maybe some groups. I have different, like the crisis hotline, different groups in my area. I live in San Diego that deal with specific things, different hotlines. That's what I would do. But I would so you know, you need to refer, actually, you need to refer in the case of mandatory reporting. If they admit to you that they're going to cause harm to themselves or somebody else, you have to stop and go call the authorities on that. If they admit that they are, if I do not sit with minors, but if a minor goes to a pastoral counselor and says I'm being molested, that person needs to stop and go call the authorities. That's a mandatory reporting. And it's not up to you to decide if it's valid or not. That's up to the authorities. Yeah. Other deep depression, not a mild depression like you and I might have, but a deep depression, deep anxiety, flashbacks. You're having flashback memories, repressed trauma. I hear that a lot. I think I've been sexually molested, but I'm not sure. And that needs to come out in therapy. I think too, when that little voice in your head says, This is over my head. And what sometimes what I say is, I'll say, you know, I'm not qualified to handle this delicate situation you bring up. May I offer a suggestion? May I make a recommendation. Now, for me, I'm a spiritual director, so I will say, you can see them and me at the same time. I just want God's best for you. This way they don't feel abandoned by me, but I they do need to see a professional.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yeah. And yeah. I I think that's I think that's a good start.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

That's uh that is a very good start. And I think one of the things you said it was important there is like uh if you're ready, because anyone who's like knowing someone and someone's talking to you about this, you may not personally be ready to handle it yourself too, because of whatever you've gone through in your life too. So making sure that you're putting your own safety there as well, but being there to listen to them and saying, I'm not putting you off. I just don't think I'm ready to hear what these things and then finding a way to help them find who can and stuff like that is is important as well. So you're not dismissing them. Yeah, I think a lot of us are it that's hard things to listen to. It is an uncomfortable topic. It is hard to imagine these things happening. And I also like all of us have been through something, no matter how big or small, and we can't minimize the journey that every one of us are on because what might seem small to us could be huge for someone else. And understanding that we're all coming on our own journeys to that place is so important. But knowing when to say, I I'm not the professional. And that's hard because I'm that type of person. I'm like, people come to me and just I'll meet someone for the first or second time, and they're like telling me their whole life story, and I'm like, I guess I feel safe, but at the same time, I'm like, what do I do with this information? And I and sometimes I will have that empathy problem where I'll take it on myself, and that can be also just as damaging. So we have to be very careful that we're not taking on a trauma into our own lives that way, too, as an accompanier and a journeyer with them. Um, so I think that this workbook is very good about helping us know how to handle it, but not take too much on ourselves. And that's a great thing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

And I'm so glad you brought that up, Tanya, because that is something we talk a lot about in the workshop, is not carrying trauma and what to do for you as the listener, family member or the pastoral care or whoever you are, how to take care of yourself and not carry it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

And that's one of the biggest things, sorry, for pastoral, because they are in a place where they're supposed to listen to these things, but most of them aren't trained in how to do this. I know, and my faith tradition that we're lay and they're just called and asked to be leaders for a short amount of time, and they're not given any training on how to be a counselor, training on how to listen to these things. And so that can be very hard because they're supposed to listen to these very hard things and help guide people without that training. You mentioned that you have trainings that separate pastoral. If you have something specific for them that's separate from the journeyers, or a training that's specific that you give to pastoral or clergy that helps them, that yes, we can have for that. Tell me about that in particular.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Yes. So I offer those trainings, or I could also see if Joe would want to come along sometime. We do it together. Sometimes I do them on my own because he has a full-time position. But yes, so what I do is I talk to the leader and see what they need. So depending on what their needs are and how long they want me to present, then I devise the training for them. But basically, I go over into a little more depth about the compassionate listening. I go into more depth about what to say and do, and then what not to say and do. And I give them some true cases and examples. I also share my story and might share a few other true cases, not to trigger someone, but to prepare someone. So if you can listen to me in a few other true cases, then you can listen to that person in front of you. And then we talk about, talk a little bit about some cultural differences. Could talk about clergy abuse too. That has happened. And I will talk about I'm I can share a variety of open-ended questions. So that might be more appropriate for the lay counselors, you know, what kinds of questions to open to ask them about various things depending on what they brought up or depending on their relationship. Questions on how to explore maybe shame, anger, grief, forgiveness, if they have that kind of a relationship. And then I spend time, I can teach a few basic, simple spiritual practices if the person's interested to start their journey with God. And then I go into, and I can spend, depending if they need it, I can spend more time with how to navigate grief, anger, and forgiveness and shame. And then I have a section of what to do for you as the lay person, which we talked about, the self-care, not owning it. There's some other things that they can do for them. And then finally, I end with knowing when to refer. And I've got a list and share some examples on that too.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

That could be very beneficial for a lot of clergy, no matter what I think what your experience level is, because you're seeing hundreds of people and everyone with their own traumatic story of some kind at various levels. I can imagine that's got to be a burden on many clergy on how they deal with this kind of situation. I mean, you're a spiritual minister, so I mean you're already in your workshopping, and so you're already also listening to lots of stories and stuff too. And so you experience this, and I imagine you've got lots of help that can help for them dealing with that situation. Where can we find your work? Where can we buy your book and get and follow you on this journey of your authorship and help and ministry to help ourselves and those around us?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yes, and please anybody reach out if you have any questions or concerns or want some information. Best place to go is my website. It's www.an e Marie, M-A-R-I-E Richardson, R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S-O-N dot com. San Marie Richardson.com. And there's there you can find out what I do and links to the books, and you can see what I'm offering when the next Not Alone group is, when the next training for directors is, or if there's, or if somebody wants me to do a workshop, I can do that. And so you can see what I offer there. The books are also available on Amazon. Here is the workbook. It's called Not Alone, a Christ-centered recovery process for women who've experienced physical, emotional, or sexual trauma. This is the second book, Not Alone, Transforming Trauma and Accompanying Survivors. And I love the I love this book cover. I was just gonna say it's both ways. It's transformed.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

I love it. Oh my gosh, that's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

That cover wasn't this one, it's more specific for directors or maybe pastoral counselors. It's called Spiritual Direction with Survivors of Sexual Trauma. And that's my latest one. It's just a very thin little practical book.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

I think that's a perfect size for someone who needs to just have some practical right now, how do I help? kind of things to do. That's incredible. It's been such a pleasure to have you here with me. Is there any last message that you have to share with our audience that you want us to go away with from our conversation today?

SPEAKER_00 49:09

I think for survivors, there's hope for you. There's hope for healing. You are not alone. And for those of you who accompany, there's hope for you as well. And you are not alone.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

I think that's the biggest message is none of us are alone because we have a savior and God and our father who are there for us no matter what, ultimately, right? Thank you so much, Anne. I have been touched. I hope you guys have been touched. And if you know someone or if you yourself need anything that you've heard about today, contact someone, reach out, find a helpline, find a group, reach out to Anne if you need to as well, or someone, and know that you are not alone and you are loved. And I hope you have a great day, and we'll see you next time on Rambi's Rants Parades and Reviews. Thank you so much again, Anne. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

And thank you for having me. Of course.