Electroboy: A Journey Through Mania, Mental Health Struggles, and the Power of Storytelling with Andy Behrman

Pam Gaslow interviews Andy Behrman, the author of Electroboy, a memoir detailing his experiences with bipolar disorder, the challenges of seeking help, and the journey of self-discovery through writing. The discussion covers their friendship, the process of writing the book, and the importance of honesty in telling one's story. Andy shares his experiences with ECT, legal troubles related to art counterfeiting, and reflections on parenting while managing mental health.

Transcript

Unknown Speaker  1:04  
Welcome to wham bam. Thank you. Pam, I'm Pam. Gaslow, today's guest is the author of Electroboy, which is a wild memoir about mania. Andy Berman, Hi, Andy, hi. Pam, how are you today?

Unknown Speaker  1:23  
Not that good,

Unknown Speaker  1:25  
really. It's been very stressful setting up for this interview. And I'm not trained as an engineer, and between the lighting and the sound, I mean, if we make it through this, it'll be a miracle. My skin is not generally this white. Is there any way you can

Unknown Speaker  1:45  
we're gonna edit this, give me a little bit of tan. We're gonna totally change everything, not even to recognize you. Okay, good, good. Plastic Surgery. We're gonna get you surgery right after this interview, like straight to the hospital. I should have found, really, I know.

Unknown Speaker  2:02  
So I want to start with how we met, because it's really funny. So Andy and I met on a mutual friend's Facebook page about, like, 11 years ago. Oh my god,

Unknown Speaker  2:15  
so Andy and I both commented on her what. I don't know what her post was about it's irrelevant. So we both commented, and like his comment was really funny, and I guess mine was. And then we started chatting in her comment section on her Facebook post, and we started following each other, and then we would write funny things on each other's page. And then eventually, and she didn't like that very much. So she didn't like this at all. And Andy and I became really good friends, and she unvelled Both of us, right? And we've never spoken to her again. It's the best story. I can't wait. It was the best thing that happened in my life that I don't have her in my life. It was the best for everyone. The outcome is that cruel to say, but no, it doesn't bother me. I'm a big blocker. So anyhow, I am not a big blocker like you have to do a lot for me to block you. We'll put up with a lot. But then there's a line when everyone crosses, and then it's done, it's over. My ex wife went on total permanent block the day that she cheated. But she's not still on block. So what do you mean permanent block? She's the mother of your children, and you, you're in contact with her,

Unknown Speaker  3:26  
not really. Okay, so let's talk about your book, Electro Boy. You don't serve anything like drinks on this show. I have like, a third of a bottle of sparkling water that I'm gonna imbibe.

Unknown Speaker  3:39  
I don't have anything for you, because, oh, Andy's in California, so I don't, you know, I can't help you. You know, you should. I'm waiting for the next wildfire. I'm waiting for the next mud slide and the next earthquake. And wouldn't it be great if one of them happened while we were talking? Yeah, would be great if, like, all three of them happen at once, at least one of them, you know, always waiting for, like, you're like, Oh, I'm waiting for the rain.

Unknown Speaker  4:06  
Like, what is wrong with you? So Pam and I met each other,

Unknown Speaker  4:11  
and we considered marriage for

Unknown Speaker  4:15  
we didn't consider marriage. I don't think we did, but, you know, we still could,

Unknown Speaker  4:21  
yeah, I mean, I'm not married. I'm not getting married. Okay, okay, let's, I want you to read the first page of Electro Boy, because that is so captivating, and I think it really that's the shameless promotion for the book. It really been doing since it was published in 2002 by random host. You're the king of shameless self promotion, and the first page is just encapsulates the whole idea of mania. So read that. Okay, January 6, 1991

Unknown Speaker  4:56  
I'll look up every so often. Number one, I.

Unknown Speaker  5:00  
Bleach, bathtub, toilet and sink. Wait, wait, wait, back up. This is a list of things to do for that day, correct? Or for a couple of days, yeah? Two, make Holocaust documentary. Three, start tofu tuna diet. Four, work out five days a week. Five, buy new scale. Six, confirm $35,000 wire payment from art collection. House Seven, open Munich bank account. Number eight, an escrow account for rent. Number nine, mail $20,000 to American Express. Number 10, bring $2,700

Unknown Speaker  5:39  
to Dr Klingman. Number 11, submit claims to Blue Cross, Blue Shield. Number 12, go to met path lab for mythia, little lithium level. Number 13, pick up lithium and Prozac. Number 14, buy more keels, extra strength styling gel, which is actually in my hair right now as we speak. Get Lara's psychiatrist. Phone number, get Pamela's astrologist. Phone number, number 17, tanning salon. Number 18, visit Auschwitz. Number 19, South Beach or Bahamas. Number 20, book trip with dad to Galapagos. 21 make reservation at chanterelle. Number 22

Unknown Speaker  6:27  
write novel and screenplay. Which I did? One of I didn't write the screenplay yet. Um, number 23 How many more are there? 25 okay. Two more patience. Um, 23 read Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Number 24 pick up liquid plumber. Number 25 I a dog. Wow, which I didn't do. So how many of those things did you do? I probably did about more than half. By the way, that could be the whole book like, that's a great book. I don't need to have to write the rest. Yeah, it's just a waste of time.

Unknown Speaker  7:05  
Okay, when did you first realize that something was wrong with you? I was probably about four or five years old.

Unknown Speaker  7:15  
Anything was different about me. I was a little bit different than other four and five years old, and that adults were reinforcing that difference,

Unknown Speaker  7:27  
which, in retrospect, probably wasn't smart on their part. You know, teachers at school treated me differently. You know, they dealt me with dealt with me as if I was an adult and I wasn't installed. But when did you first start having symptoms of mania early, you know, I had symptoms of OCD. I was cleaning non stop. I was bleaching sinks, cleaning toilets at a very early age, you know, when you're not supposed to be the housekeeper, right, right? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  7:59  
and everything had to be organized, lined up. I was vacuuming once a day.

Unknown Speaker  8:06  
And then,

Unknown Speaker  8:08  
you know, if you have really bad OCD, and you vacuum when you're done vacuuming, you don't put the vacuum away. You open up the vacuum bag, and you see what you can find inside all of the junk, and sometimes you're really lucky find your mom's earring that she's been missing for like, a year. You know, you're totally crazy. Crazy. Yeah. I mean, at what point did this get out of control? Talk me through, like, to the point in your life where you actually started to seek help, like, how long before you got to that point? Well, I guess it's it may be more important to tell you that I made it through high school rather successfully. I grew up like I had this normal upbringing in New Jersey, but you know, it was critical that I be the yearbook editor, the class president and the student government president, the trifecta. It was critical that I overachieve. You know, there were 300

Unknown Speaker  9:10  
kids in the class, and they all had this chorus for Christmas, and I was like, I'm not going to be in the course. There's no way. And they're like, Well, you can't graduate. I was like, No, I'm going to come up with something different. Because they asked me, Why do you want to be in the chorus? And I said, because if there's anything I hate more, it's singing Christmas carols. I'd rather kill myself. This should have taken me seriously when I said that, because then hear them and if people with bipolar disorder do take their lives. So instead, I proposed that I take the bus into Manhattan, which was all of 15 minutes, and that I studied Chinese, and they approved that, so it was a lot of fun. I don't even understand what that means. I went to a Chinese class, Chinese language class, yeah, but you have to understand when you're something to me in Chinese right now.

Unknown Speaker  10:00  
Ni hao ma, what does that mean? How are you, yeah, okay.

Unknown Speaker  10:05  
Oh, sure. Shui Shi, okay, it doesn't like go there anyhow. But the point is, what happens to the bipolar person? Yeah, you go to the Chinese class, which is in Times Square, and then you discover Times Square, and then you discover the whole entire world of porn. And the point is that a lot of bipolar people are hypersexual. So I wanted to learn everything, I wanted to see everything. I wanted to go to live sex shows in Times Square. You know, when you're bipolar, you have this tremendous thirst for seeing everything, traveling everywhere, learning everything, and your brain is like, I never said this, but it's like, on fire. You're constantly going, going, going, I want to read a quote from your book where you said it's an one of the secrets of manic depression is the pleasure it brings. It's an emotional state similar to Oz, full of excitement, color, noise and speed, an overload of sensory stimulation, where he's the same state of Kansas is plain and simple, black and white, boring and flat.

Unknown Speaker  11:17  
And that was my fear, is that my life would be boring, and I got tremendous pleasure from exploring everything that was out there. And it wasn't like I limited myself to any particular things. One day I could wake up and say, Well, I write about this in the book. I was I was watching the Berlin Wall come down on on TV. And I was like, but I'm gonna go there, but not like, I'm gonna go there in a couple years, like,

Unknown Speaker  11:47  
I'm gonna get out on the corner of 84th and Broadway, take a cab and fly to Berlin. Yeah, I did, and you did it alone. Oh, I took a friend. I always just traveled with a friend. I'd call How old were you when, when that occurred? Oh, that was like 27

Unknown Speaker  12:04  
okay, then what happened when you got to Berlin? Well, it was exciting. I saw the wall. I chipped the piece off, you know, I took it home, traveled into East Berlin,

Unknown Speaker  12:16  
went

Unknown Speaker  12:18  
to a restaurant in East Berlin had a huge menu. So excited about this huge menu, but when you asked for anything, the only thing they had on menu, I mean, it was like the day after the Wall had fallen down. These people hadn't yet discovered food, you know.

Unknown Speaker  12:36  
So all they had on the all they had in the restaurant was rump roast, which is just basically some horrible boiled meat. That's my joke from Berlin. But yeah, I could. I always had to see things up close, you know. And even as a little kid, I would read National Geographic Magazine and say, Well, one day I'm gonna go there, you know. And I would just what would happen? Like, would you crash? Like, where is the down? You know, does the mania just keep going? Or then, in my case, which is much different, some people have a combination of mania and depression. I would have a little depression, very little. But my depression exhibited itself as rage, just a really angry person when I was depressed because I was so upset that I wasn't high. I really mean high because, you know, you always want to do the next dangerous thing, even if it's standing on the subway track and thinking, what do you think I'll look like if I jump in front of that Subway and after it hits me? Probably not too good, but you know that never happened. I mean, when I was psychotic, I did try to take my life, and while I was fully dressed, I got into a bathtub full of water and tried to drown myself. The only thing I didn't realize until later was that I had never filled the bathtub up with water.

Unknown Speaker  14:04  
That was the psychotic part, yeah, but I thought I was myself when you like something like that. For example, were you on drugs when you did that? Well, you know, not specifically at that time, and you know, but drugs are part of the story, like that also, absolutely drugs. Drugs are part of the story, but a lot of that was in college, and those were the preliminary signs that there was bipolar disorder. Because I was using cocaine heavily, it speeded up the mania. It fed the mania.

Unknown Speaker  14:41  
But in those years, like in the mid 80s, when I was in college, people were not talking openly about mental health at all. I mean, there was a mental health counselor, and seriously, she knew very little about bipolar disorder, but she had very few patients, because no one was openly.

Unknown Speaker  15:00  
Admitting that anything was wrong. So you know, it's not like I was the first person, but curiously, I was the first male who wrote a memoir about suffering with bipolar disorder. I mean, everyone else, and they were pretty well known. Everyone else, they were all women like Kate Redfield Jamison, who's written the most important books on mania. I mean, she really inspired me. I went to hear her speak, and I've read everything she's written, but I'm like, That's not me. That's not my mania. She's driving, she's had a couple glasses of wine, and she's driving in circles around the parking lot at UCLA, right? Big fucking deal, you know, I'm, you know, I'm flying to Japan, and I'm selling counterfeit paintings, you know. Kay, you're really lucky. Keep driving around in that parking lot glasses of wine, but you're not risking your life. So at what point did you really start to get help? And how many I imagine this wasn't an overnight, you know, diagnosis and success story, because, like most mental illness, I mean, yes, this was in the 80s. Now, that's a long time ago, but you know, so many people go through so much stuff to figure out what's wrong with them, and it's just so I started right away. At 22 in New York. Saw my first psychiatrist. Just to give you the stats, I saw 14 mental health people, none of none of whom diagnosed me

Unknown Speaker  16:30  
with bipolar disorder. When I finally found

Unknown Speaker  16:35  
one female psychiatrist who diagnosed me after two sessions, I was

Unknown Speaker  16:43  
you know, treated with 45 different medication. That doesn't happen anymore, because they're able to diagnose faster. There's there's actually testing to see what meds will work better for you. But I remember the first psychiatrist I went to. He was like, Freud,

Unknown Speaker  17:03  
you know, he had this line. He

Unknown Speaker  17:08  
he had this line because I told him I was using cocaine and staying up, you know, 48 hours in a row. And he said, you know, you will get high. And when he wouldn't give me enough medication to stay high, I would just buy it on the street. That was only that was that was Prozac for depression. Just when Prozac came out and I realized, wow, if 20 milligrams makes me feel great, how's 80 going to make me feel well, it's like a mentality, yeah,

Unknown Speaker  17:45  
it got me high, right? Never thought of taking that much Prozac, yeah? But, I mean, I did everything in excess, whether it was

Unknown Speaker  17:58  
drugs, alcohol, sex, shopping. You know, I could go out and just like, binge shop and spend $20,000

Unknown Speaker  18:11  
um,

Unknown Speaker  18:13  
it wasn't good, no, but it's like, you talk about the high of it, but at the same time, you know, this isn't normal and like, I kind of need help for it. Oh yeah, I did know that I needed help. Yeah, when I found this one doctor, the female doctor, she said, you know, we're gonna get you well because you're living on the edge. It's dangerous. But at the same time, she couldn't find the right cocktail of medication, a term that I hate, but cocktail, Yeah, but how so? So there was a lot of crazy stuff going on. You know, I was working in the public relations business at first, working for Giorgio Armani, and I lied on my application to get the job because it was the job to get I said I spoke Italian fluently because my boss worked in Milan, so she spoke perfect English, but it's a job. I was like, how do you think speaking a language like they didn't test me out, okay? And you didn't need to know. My job actually, was when Mr. Armani came to town, which was often I would hire prostitutes for him. I would hire like 10 young boys at a time. It's a cool job.

Unknown Speaker  19:29  
Well, it was lucrative.

Unknown Speaker  19:32  
It was lucrative. And, you know, I became he would ask you to do that. They would ask me to do that. He didn't ask me, but they showed up at the Carlisle hotel. They each got their $1,000 you know, and I got my 20% cut. Of course, you did, which was good. But then I said to myself, you know, I'm 22 years old. I'm in really good shape. I'm just as good as them. I'm gonna do this job, but I'm gonna start, you know, by being as.

Unknown Speaker  20:00  
Ripper at a club, because that's lucrative, too. And I had a friend who did it with me. We kind of kept each other company and kept each other safe,

Unknown Speaker  20:09  
saying, and I was, was never scared of the consequences, which were so bad. I mean, I mean, I can't even tell you the kind of people who would like pick you up. They can, oh, I mean, they were, they were one was a psychiatrist, of course, and I loved his life. His family was away in Martha's Vineyard, and all he wanted me to do was to be naked and to wear a gas mask. Okay, that's good. I mean, you don't have to. That's not a lot of work. I mean, once you get the gas mask, you know, no, he had supply it. He had the gas mask. Okay, yeah, so,

Unknown Speaker  20:50  
you know, and I would tell my psychiatrist these things like, this is what I'm doing. But it led to, it

Unknown Speaker  20:58  
led to

Unknown Speaker  21:00  
all kinds of crazy things. It led to crazy things. It was crazy. It was crazy.

Unknown Speaker  21:07  
I went to work for, uh, an artist. His name was Mark castabi. He was very famous in the 80s, and he kind of took to me, and he was like, wow, you're the PR guy. You can sell anything. Yeah, I'm good at selling, and I can promote you, and I can sell. And we ended up bringing in $3 million my first year. And then, well, the thing about Marcus Dobby is he didn't paint any of his own paintings. He hired paintings painters to paint them. Okay? Somebody that does that, who I won't name. And then he Why do I, why do I actually try in life,

Unknown Speaker  21:45  
you know, like, why do you what? Why do I actually try in life? It's not, is it worth it? No, no, no, there are lots of shortcuts. So then he authorized me to sign his paintings, and me

Unknown Speaker  21:58  
thinking, always a step ahead and thinking,

Unknown Speaker  22:03  
I'm gonna find a painter here who's making minimum wage and pay her $1,000 a painting and sell that painting for $20,000

Unknown Speaker  22:12  
because I'm authorized

Unknown Speaker  22:16  
to sign these paintings, right? So I traveled all over the world. I traveled to Hong Kong, Japan. That was my big place, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, all over and I would sell these paintings to dealers who were regular customers. But I would sell a lot of paintings, a lot of paintings. But unfortunately, kostabi was once in Japan, and he went to a gallery that I had sold to and he saw like, 40 paintings I had sold. And I got a telephone call from him, and he said, Andy, there's a problem. I'm at such and such Gallery, and they're 14 paintings and I've never seen them. I'm like, Oh God, I don't know anything about that. So I put a suit on because I figured, just get as normal as you can. And I went down to our office on 37th Street, and there was yellow police tape around

Unknown Speaker  23:10  
I'm like, wow, someone's in trouble. Like, I wonder who's in trouble, what's going on? And I called my lawyer, and I told him what was going on, and he's like, I think you need to come to my office right away. Yeah, he didn't end up being my my criminal defense attorney, because I had to tell my parents about this. I'm like, Hey mom, hey dad. We met for dinner. I was like, um, do you guys know a criminal criminal defense attorney? Because

Unknown Speaker  23:40  
I may be in a little bit of trouble. Well, I wasn't.

Unknown Speaker  23:44  
Am I allowed to say shit ton of trouble? Say whatever you want. It wasn't a shit ton of trouble. You get arrested that day? Did you go into the building? No, I didn't go into the building. Okay, I just, I totally stayed away, and it took them, took the federal government, two years, to indict me. Wow. So I lived in this apartment, and every single day, when I walked out of the apartment, they'd say, Would you like to come speak with us? And my lawyer had given me 1000 business cards, he said, because they will drive you crazy, just hand them a business card and say, call my attorney. But I lived in fear, you know, and I was cut off financially. I mean, yes, I had made a lot of money

Unknown Speaker  24:28  
in this business, counterfeiting business, but it wasn't in this country. There was some money in my freezer, which I referred to as my cold cash, crazy. But so I was, I was finally, I wasn't arrested. We agreed upon my turning myself in. So I went through the whole thing and still crazy as hell I was and not understanding how much trouble I was probably in. So then we started prepping for trial in federal court. Easter.

Unknown Speaker  25:00  
District in New York, and they indicted me on five counts of wire fraud, and I was still crazy because then the trial happened, and they started bringing in, they started bringing in witnesses against me, and my bank manager came in. I'm like, Hey, how about you Christmas present? You coming in to testify against me? Mary. Her name was Mary long from Jason, Manhattan Bank. She's probably dead by now. What did your parents think when they found this out? My parents weren't sure exactly what was going on, because I never told them I was doing this. I just always had a lot of money, so they always had lots of nice gifts for me after every trip. Yeah, but did you so they found out what you did, and then what was there?

Unknown Speaker  25:43  
It was the reaction that, I think any great parent will defend you, okay, and you're not well, right? And we've got to get you well. And then how much time did you serve? Well, luckily, I was only convicted on one count, so on the other count, I could have served up to five years. So when I came back to sentencing, they had to consider how bad the crime was, you know, while I was waiting to be indicted, by the way, you know, had to make money, so I went to Chinatown and I bought this green alligator suit, and I did birthday parties for kids on the weekend. Shut the fuck up. You never told me this. Yeah, it's in the book. Oh my God, never this. This is amazing. I wish I knew. Then I do. I would do those for like, I would do two $450

Unknown Speaker  26:35  
each. And then I worked on a bar on Amsterdam Avenue where my job was to get people in to drink. So I would give them a green free drink ticket, and I would get, like, an extra 100 people into the bar. And based on every ticket that was given out, I would get $2

Unknown Speaker  26:57  
for the little cloning. So I would make $200 I mean, I I was always a hustler, yes and a hustler, yeah, and yes, yes, you've done everything. Yes. But it's so funny, because it's like my mom and dad, they they read the book four weeks before it was published, and I had lied to them and told them and was writing a technical book on bipolar disorder. So they read the book, and quickly, obviously, because at 2am my mother called, and she was like, That is pornography. That is trash, that we are so humiliated, we need to see your therapist immediately. Okay, so the next morning, yeah, we saw my therapist. I said it's an emergency, they want to kill me. So

Unknown Speaker  27:43  
therapist said to my father, father, what did you think of Electro Boy, which, by the way, has become my nickname amongst way too many people. My father said, you know, I thought it was really well written. I thought it was honest, and he's really suffered with bipolar disorder. And then she turned to my mother and said, What did you think of Electro Boy? And she said, I hated it. I hated everything about it. But what I hated most about it was that he writes about dancing at seedy times, square theaters, naked and I couldn't even get him to dance at Bar Mitzvahs. That is amazing. Your mom needs to write the sequel to this book. Obviously, at what point did you come to the realization all these medications aren't working, and who decided that you were going to get the ECT therapy? Well, I talked to my psychiatrist, and I said, How much longer do I have to live like this? I mean, you know, I just can't do it much longer. And I said, because I had read about it, what do you think about ECT treatment? She said, I think you're going to be very sensitive to it. But she referred me to the expert, and I went to see him, and he said, I think you're the perfect candidate for this. I felt like he said it without really even thinking. So I went for my first treatment. It was always outpatient. You'd go

Unknown Speaker  29:03  
really early in the morning, you'd have your treatment to be laying on a gurney. You'd be pulled into the or you'd be strapped down

Unknown Speaker  29:13  
by your arms and your ankles. They'd put a rubber bite plate in your mouth so when the shock hit you. You wouldn't bite your tongue off.

Unknown Speaker  29:24  
Um, and then the first time, I was scared to death, but, you know, they gave me anesthesia first, so I was totally out. And of course, I became addicted to the anesthesia, because I loved it. And then, like, they put me into recovery, and

Unknown Speaker  29:44  
half hour later, they brought me into my room, and

Unknown Speaker  29:50  
I was feeling great. I was like, Oh, my god, is this how normal people feel? I'm like, and the hospital was in New York. I looked at my parents.

Unknown Speaker  30:00  
I said, Why are we in Connecticut? And then the nurse came in the room, and I was like, Excuse me, but I really want to be with my family. And my parents said to me, that's your sister. So the worst side effect, memory, yes, I've read about it and I've heard that, yeah, it's just terrible. Like when my parents,

Unknown Speaker  30:19  
does it come back, though, is that just like, the immediate effect? Does it come back? Okay? Okay? So that, yeah, the memory loss is bad. And when I got home, I wanted to call my parents and tell them I was okay, but I looked at the phone pad and, like, I didn't know what any of the numbers meant. Like,

Unknown Speaker  30:37  
okay, there's the one, the two, the three, the four, the five, the six. But like, how do I put them together? To call my parents? Like, I don't understand how this really works. My memory was bad. I didn't remember people, but it would come back and I would go, like, every two weeks for another session. I had 19 treatments. The only reason I didn't have 20 is because I called it off. He wanted me to stay on ECT forever, and I was done, and I knew I was healthy and on ECT and medication I was healthy. Oh, and by the way, I didn't tell you for the one count that I was found guilty of, I was given five months in federal prison and five months under house arrest, where I had to wear an ankle bracelet, right, right? And I had four hours out a day. It was a good conversation piece. Is a good thing, you know, you didn't mind prison, right? No, I made the best of it, because I was still not totally Well, right? I was everybody's best friend, like my mother when she knew I was or prison was before, ect, right? Prison was before, ect, correct? But my mom was like, we need to go shopping, because you're going to prison shopping for what? Well, she goes well, I mean, you have to look nice. I love your mom. So she took me to Bloomingdale's, and we got all kinds of nice things that she wanted me to have, like, khakis and button downs, which, just so, you know, is not what everyone else is wearing. Okay? You didn't have to wear a uniform, no, because it was like federal, okay, but, you know, I mean, it was my opportunity to learn to speak Spanish. Maybe I should go to prison, because I really need to learn Spanish. You should go to prison. But should you be? What should you be? What should you be arrested for, though, something like totally insane. Wait, I want to go back to something. But what did you do every day? What did you do all day in prison, besides learn Spanish, work out.

Unknown Speaker  32:33  
Okay, yeah. And because the other guys were, there are layers of levels of you know, they were all in for drug dealing. I was in for wire fraud. I mean, my roommate was in for white collar crime. He used to borrow the keys from doorman in Manhattan and apartments to clients, but he didn't know the owners, and he would take a down payment from them. It was just a scam he was running. I understand, yeah, he was my one mob friend. So when did you write Electro Boy? How long after the treatments, did you do start writing? And how long did it take? You know, some parts of Electro Boy I wrote in college. Oddly, I was less than, like, 18 years old, but mostly I sat down, it was really hard for me to focus. And I said, I'm going to tell a true story about mental illness. I'm not going to cover up anything. I'm not going to clean up what's dirty, or considered dirty. You know, if I had a three way in San Francisco, I'm writing about it if this book is really going to be a true story, and another intention was for it to help people, let them read a real story. I mean, whereas it's an AA qualification, you know, right? I mean, it can't tell you code, it doesn't help other people like I think the best stories are when people are honest, and that's the only way to help people not sugar coating and pretending things are you know, no, I mean, yeah, there's some name changes. I mean, not Armani, because he's in the public domain. But when the New York Times interviewed them about what I did for Armani, they said he's got a very fuzzy memory. Well, what they should have said, if they were smart, was he was never employed here.

Unknown Speaker  34:29  
So instead, I told the truth. I told the truth about a lot of people who weren't very helpful along the way. What I like about you is you really don't give a fuck what people think. And I respect that. It's not that I don't give a fuck, but I feel like being truthful is it was totally redundant. What I was just gonna say Be truthful is honest. But honesty counts when someone wants to understand what you've been through. I've spoken to so many college audiences, and I've spoke.

Unknown Speaker  35:00  
And to pharmaceutical sales people. I've spoken to book clubs, and the best book clubs I found are like I've done so many in Texas with evangelical Christians and Republicans who were so much more accepting of what I did than Beverly Hills, housewives, you know, who just kind of needled me and said, for example, what's it like to have sex with a man? And I said to that question, what's it like to fuck your husband?

Unknown Speaker  35:36  
I mean, I don't know. I mean, hey, I'm here to tell my story. I'm here to be honest, if you want to, want to ask questions, you know,

Unknown Speaker  35:46  
questions, yeah, intelligent ones. Thank you. Don't be an ass.

Unknown Speaker  35:52  
So cut to today. I know this was a long, you know, many, many years ago, and you haven't had any more treatment, but you, you do take what? Like, one medication I take. I take three medications. And I never tell people what I take, only because then they think, well, you're so balanced.

Unknown Speaker  36:12  
Maybe I should take those. Is that what they Yeah, yeah. I'll ask my doctor if I should take those, right? I mean, I don't take anything heavy duty. I take, you know, a mood stabilizer, which everybody who has bipolar disorder should take. And, yeah, I have a lot of anxiety, so I take an anti anxiety. And

Unknown Speaker  36:33  
just to be cautious, so I don't slip there, I take an antidepressant. It's not like taking 45 medications. No, it's you sound like you're not really on much more than the average American is no, no, exactly. I The most I ever took was 15 at once. I've tried 45 medication, right? 15 at once? Jesus, yeah.

Unknown Speaker  36:56  
Well, I mean because, because there were so many side effects to so many meds so you'd have to take the side effect pill. I mean, you know, it's like,

Unknown Speaker  37:07  
trust me, I know meds really, really well. And the one thing I have to tell you is I never, I never miss taking them, because I know what happens. You've got to be really to cope and manage with this brutal fucking illness, you've got to be just regimented, and you have to follow what your doctor says. And unlike a lot of patients, I see my doctor regularly, but a lot of doctors just prescribed. I mean, my doctor wants to see me in person to see how I'm moving, to see if my hands are shaking, right? And so many people you hear about, they think, Well, I'm fine. I don't need these medicines. I don't need this medicine anymore. And they just stop taking it, like, all right, exactly. They just decide on their own. I mean, I've done it before, like, I'm doing just fine. I'm gonna drop this out five days, I can feel it. Maybe I've done that in 20 years. I've done that five, six times. That's about it, yeah, but not like I'm producing your show, which I've seen lots of episodes of. But how are we on time? I think, like we're at the time. We're at time. Yeah, we need to, you know. Oh, wrap it up. Yeah. Do you have anything else, like anything amazing you wanna asking me you're asking me what life is like today? Yeah, see, no one ever thought I would get married.

Unknown Speaker  38:36  
Okay, they probably didn't think you'd be alive. No, they all thought I'd be in a psychiatric ward, and no one ever thought I'd have kids, nor did anyone ever think I'd be a single parent. I mean, I was left with an eight month old and a two year old who are now 18 and 20, and they're extremely great kids, and they grew up understanding mental illness. Did you ever think is that bipolar disorder? Is that anything that's inherited? I don't think it is yes. It is yes. Did you ever think before you had kids, like the possibility of passing that on? Yeah, but yeah, it's something to consider. But I also know, like, wow,

Unknown Speaker  39:18  
35 years after I was diagnosed, how much easier it is to treat and how much more acceptable it is to say, you know, I have bipolar disorder. I never knew the term bipolar disorder. We always called it manic depression, right? I mean, when I was first diagnosed, this doctor told me that I had manic depression, and I said to him, am I going? I didn't know what it was. I said, Am I going to live until my next birthday? I thought I was going to die. I didn't know. Well, the book is is amazing. It's so well written. You've done so much publicity for it over the years, and it's still a message that's so important, you know, and just as relevant today that our people need to understand about.

Unknown Speaker  40:00  
Out, and thank you for sharing that with our Thank you for having me and for listening so closely. And it's a no pun intended. It's a shocking book and and it's funny, but it's funny, but that's how I relate the illness to people. If, first of all, it's a very easy to read book. It's an old book, but it's been published in seven languages. My joke is, it's been published in seven languages except English, and that's it. And it's always fun. It's always fun to talk about. Well, everyone the book's called Electro Boy by Andy Berman. Check it out. And thank you so much for for being here, and you can promise that I will promote your interview

Unknown Speaker  40:45  
like no one else, like nobody else can, like nobody else can. Okay, can't wait. Thanks, Andy, you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai