Fran's Table Episode 3 "Dinner Parties"

Sometimes a dinner party is in order just so I'll be inspired (required) to clean and organize my kitchen. But mostly it's about the people you bring to the table. Well, and the food. And -- maybe just a little dash of drama. But all in all, dinner parties are a lovely thing, and I've invited my lovely friend George to chat about all things "dinner party" Grab a seat and join the conversation...

Transcript

0:01

You know, there is not a thing wrong with eating your dinner over the sink or in front of the television, and I'm a big believer in grabbing comfort wherever you can find it. But in my experience of the world, it seems to me that the very best moments around food, around companionship occur at the table. So this is Fran's table, and I want you to come find a seat. There's plenty of room. Sit down next to me. And the thing about it is we may talk about food on account. It's one of my favorite subjects, but we may talk about other things as well, just like around a regular, you know, table where we have conversations and we connect and we learn about one another. So this is Fran's table. Grab a chair, let's go. I've often said that I need to give a dinner party at least once a year if for no other reason than to organize my kitchen and clean to some degree. Anyway, the house, and since in that last episode I was talking about cooking through a lack of inspiration, I think I'm also gonna offer that sometimes making a commitment to cook. For others breaks that kind of creative block. So there is that as a possibility. But of course I also love a dinner party because it's an opportunity to connect with good friends, with family, and a larger dinner party can present an opportunity to introduce like one friend group to another friend group. That's always fun. So now let me be clear. I used to be super uptight. As a hostess, and by uptight I don't mean like fussy or precise, it's just that I used to assign a whole lot of importance to, you know, like this near perfect meal. I mean, it would, it really does still piss me off if I have like one dish that's ready way before another one. I have always marveled at hosts and hostesses who put like four or five piping hot dishes on the table for their guests. While there's a beautiful homemade pie that cools in the kitchen during dinner. I mean, God, that's ideal. And I suppose I could do it if I was cooking for someone else and isolating myself in the kitchen. But I mean that's, you know, not the same thing as being a hostess. So when I cook for a dinner party, I want to be able to visit with folks when they arrive and you know, slide in and outta the conversation while dinner finishes. And I don't wanna sit down and actually, oh, I don't know, eat without having to like towel off before I stick to the dining room chairs.'cause PS, and while we're here, I do sweat. I don't become dewy. I'm not glowing or glistening, I just sweat. So I, you know, I need to have an easeful. Dinner menu when I host a dinner party. So those days of uptight dinner parties are definitely long gone. I have calmed down. I've started coming up with menus that lend themselves to advanced preparation menus that are, you know, familiar crowd pleasers, but maybe I've tweaked them with a special twist. I think it's possible that right after the pandemic folks in my world anyway, were newly appreciative of eating with family and friends. Having given that up, you know, for such a long stretch of time, we were so eager to get back to the table and I'm wondering, are we still doing that? Are we still celebrating our time around the table and the opportunity to connect? And in some cases, reconnect. Hmm. Here's another thing. Would I define a dinner party differently these days? I mean, is there a difference between a family dinner and a dinner party for family? I think there is, but I haven't decided specifically what those differences are. The one thing I think that stands out is that the end result is the same. I wanna have people I love around a table. Now someone who's been hosting dinner parties and attending dinner parties and co-hosting parties with his husband and eating with enormous grace and forgiveness. My food through the years is my best friend from college, George, and I like to say that George is one of my oldest friends, but the joke of course is that I'm in fact older than he is by a whopping five months, and he will always. Be aware of that as well. He should, but I'm still gonna say that he's one of my oldest friends and he will patiently roll his eyes in private and pretend to put up with it because he's just that kind. So what I did when I was talking about dinner parties is I decided, okay, I gotta talk to George. So I zoomed George, and that's what we did. We talked about dinner parties, listen in.

Audio Only - All Participants: 5:05

I am being very forthcoming about the fact that my early dinner parties were super uptight. Right. I know that, uh, it comes as a shock to you, right? Oh, yes. Because you're so, um, relaxed and complex. Are you serious? Oh, no. Yes. You give the appearance of it. I am Mr. Uptight when it comes to entertaining, but you know, yes. But you don't actually come across that way, so let's dive right in because that's one of the things that I think we are different and alike in some of these ways, right? I think, yeah. We both are very, we want precise and, and well thought out, well executed dinner parties. Right? Right. A plan. A plan. A big P plan. Yes. I like a plan. Plans are good, but, but by the same token, here's the thing I have discovered in my. Dotage that um, yeah, plans are fine, but now I think they're little P plans. And I'm trying to loosen up a little bit and I think I'm succeeding. What kind of now, but those are two different questions. So the first question is, what kind of dinner party do you like to give these days? And then what kind of dinner party do you like to go to? Ah, um, I, uh, well, let's see, give, um, I'm in this sort of manageable stage, you know, I like it to be, we can see six around our dining room table very comfortably, and eight is fine. So to me, any more than eight, and I'm, you know, I, I do not like eating on laps. That's just not me, you know? So as far as a dinner party, if you, if you're having like a big buffet or an open house or something, sure, absolutely. But. Dinner party, you know? And I also feel like if it's six people, I can manage that whatever I'm cooking, you know, the quantities are such that it's, it's okay, I can, I can do that. So that's, that's sort of in my, as far as size. And then I, you know, I'm more and more, I like to have something that I can make, if not largely ahead of time, a, a bit of ahead of time and ideally a lot of ahead of time, you know, and then just. Do the end bits as people, you know, when they're here. So, um, yeah, I mean, I used, what were you gonna say? No, I, I being stuck in the kitchen while everyone's having a good time. Over drinks in the next room is, that's not fun. No, it isn't. And, and I, I have to say, um, I, I did laugh at my mom and, and her generation, uh, fairly often because I think, you know, casserole, there's such, you know, the. You know, the stepchild of the culinary world, you know, casseroles and they even say it a certain way and they probably have like a can of soup in there somewhere. But I am like a big believer now in casseroles. Yes. Like it would be nice if I could have every meal be like a roast chicken in all the trimmings, but that's still a lot of work that's like. Worse than a taco bar because you got like all these individual things that have to come out like you were saying at the same time and hot, and then where's the time with your guests gone. Yeah. So yeah, I've, I've, I've adopted the whole, like, I, I was wrong about casserole. That's, that's what I have to say. Oh, no, I, I'm right there with you. And I, I have become, I would say, less ambitious as I get older. I don't, I'm not gonna attempt to serve, you know, little, uh, squams or. You know, stuffed quails or whatever, you know, or individual mousses or, the one of my favorite things, and I wanna tell a story on you, was when you made individual grapes that were, that were coated in both blue cheese and nuts and oh my God, each grape was a freaking work of art. That was insanity. Thank you. Guess who? Martha Stewart? Yeah. I know, I know I have those Martha Stewart Folly too. But see, I mean, not that she's, she's folly, but I mean, you know, seriously. Right. I will say though, something like that because you can make, I don't mind fiddly and if you can make it ahead, I can. Roll grapes and chop nuts and goat cheese all day. You know, like that's, you know, because they're done ahead of time. It's like, here, look what I made. You know? Yeah, no, that's true. And the other thing too is that I've gotten to be more, um, circumspect about portions and quantity, you know? Yeah. Like, so I don't feel like I have to do for six people. I don't have to do like three pounds of grapes, you know? Everyone's gonna have like three or four or five, you know what I mean? Right. Or are you of the three or four pounds? No, no. I mean, I of course better to have too much than too little. I always That's true, you know? Um, and of course nowadays I think the big thing with dinner parties is somebody, somebody will have a dietary restriction, you know's. True. It's just a question of what it is, not if it is, but what it is. And so, you know, you're, you're the, the pre, you know, the pre dinner party emails or texts. Are funny because it didn't happen 20 years ago, but you know, you sort of Alright. Dietary restrictions, whatever. Oh, well, you know, and it's great. I mean, I. I'm not, people have these issues and it's good and you want to make them happy, but, uh, yeah, absolutely. And, and the thing is, we're talking about manageable numbers too.'cause you were saying that your sweet spot is like six to eight people and I'm, I'm kind of right next to you on that. Um. Sixes is lovely, but um, yeah, but it's more manageable with the, and now I think where it gets kind of comical is because I also, I, for anyone I love and know I'm gonna, especially since I have people in my own family who are very specific about what they do and don't like. But it is kind of gets kind of comical at that point if I'm trying to, you know, monitor and, and, you know, register everyone's preferences too. It, it, it, I suppose the nice thing is, is it forces a kind of careful curation of menu because some people will eat, you know, uh. Spicier things and other people really prefer sort of Western edge and, you know, I don't know, it's, it's kind of an interesting comedy though, sometimes, right? But there are of course ways to, you know, to finesse that with, you know, say spice or heat's. Like, okay, well you can have your extra hot sauce or whatever as a condiment. Those who want it go nuts to those who don't, don't have to, you know? Ooh, I like that. Hey, do you put stuff like that on the table? Do you have like real specific ideas about how the table should look like, should it have salt on it? Like some people take huge exception to their guests adding salt. Oh, well, I will tell you a person who shall remain nameless. We were at a dinner party this winter and you know, she's getting things ready, putting it out, and let's see, we got everything. Let's see. Uh, yeah. Well, and, and I don't know if someone said salt and she said, well, I don't use salt. So it's like. Uh, okay. You don't use salt? I love salt. I'm a freaking salt maniac. But no, there's no salt on the table because she doesn't use salt. I'm like, no salt. Okay. Okay. And that's the kind of thing. No, I always have salt and a pepper grinder on the table. Yeah. And then if there's, you know, whatever else might be, generally, I guess I don't tend to have too many other condiment things on the table.'cause I like to have it all done before it's out, you know? Yeah. Um. And mostly I'm, although I will say that those little tiny jar, uh, bottles of hot sauce, they look adorable. Yes. They're like, they're like a, a freaking accessory to the table, you know? Yes. And I, I, I'm all for that. If I, you know, I, I don't, I don't inject, um, I mean, I like a nice table. That's the other thing about dinner party. I like a nice table. I want flowers, a centerpiece, I want nice napkins. I want, you know, it doesn't have to be fancy, but I want it to be. Nice and thought up. I want someone to think, does, does it have to have a, a tablecloth as well? Yeah, no. Could be place mats. Um, place mat. Okay. Place mats. But I, I generally use a tablecloth at dinner party just'cause it's easier if you have six people, it's, you know, just go ahead and do the one thing and, you know. But, uh, but I do and I like, I like setting the table. I like setting the table more than I like cooking meals. So, know. So when you were growing up,'cause like when, when Lisa and Margaret and I were growing up and we. Spend time, um, at pound gun's place in Pinehurst, like gunky who did not cook. Like she was a terrible, terrible, terrible cook. She was all about the table though. I mean, and as we grew older. Lisa's artistic sense just blossomed. I mean, the table was freaking overwhelmed with like moss scapes and, you know, pine cones and, you know, huge branches. And it was, it was very elaborate. And then of course, if it was Easter, there would be the inevitable like stuffed rabbit, you know, like the little. Stuffed bunnies with the big pink ears, they'd be in the center of the table uhhuh. So it wasn't always tasteful, but it was always like over the top. And I, I, I still love that. Absolutely. And you know, you, it's done with, with thought, with love, you know, that's the thing. Like, somebody took some time to think about this table and to put it together for, you know, so Yeah. I, I love that. I, I love an extravagant centerpiece, even though I don't do them much anymore. Well, I went, I, I was visiting the people who owned. The house that belonged to our great-grandfather, gunky stepfather. Um, they were known for their dinner parties and I wi, I only met them like at the very end of, of her life and I wish I'd known her when she had a dinner party. But the first time we sort of invited ourselves into the house, which was a hilarious. Um, story unto itself, I think, um, they actually invited us in and they had had a dinner party the night before, and the gentleman of the house came down literally in his like silk, you know, jacket, bed jacket and little velvet slippers because it had been a late night. And then the lady of the house who was in a beautiful little frock and a careless, you know, bun on top of her head. Showed us the big giant dinner table with its beautiful landscape down the center. That involved moss. Thank you very much. And sunflowers and little individual, you know, arrangements and oh my God, it was a work of art and I thought, geez, I met you two late in life. But do people even do people, even now, this was like 10 years ago, but do people even entertain like that anymore? Well, I was just thinking of, you know, how do you impress the Duchess of Devon Shear, and I was reading her autobiography one time. She talked about one of the most, well, and what she used to do for centerpieces, she would put varied. Sometimes there'd be a hen and live chicks in, no, there would not. Yes, on the dining table one time it was piglets, actual little piglets from the farm that were just, you know, cozy up there, having a little nap in the middle of the, you know, in a lovely, I'm sure you know, Ming Dynasty bowl or something. But, um, and then sometimes she would take, uh, some of the old masters out, so she'd have a little, uh, Leonardo. Drawing in front of your table on a little easel. And she said nobody ever spilled any gravy on them. So it was fine, you know? Oh my God. But Chelsea said the centerpiece that most impressed her that she thought was the loveliest was in New York. She was at a dinner party and someone had, um, Lilia the Valley growing in little, you know, uh, the most pots down the center of the table. And of course. Lilia the valley bloom 21 days after they are sort of activated, so you have to time it right. But you can have this exquisite, you know, how do you impress the duchess? Devon shared beautiful Lilia the valley in in limo down the center of the table. Yes. 21 days. Yes, there is that right? Oh my God. Yeah. I think, I think there's something to be said for that because it also makes up for all kinds of ills. On the plate. Right. Because you could serve, you know, freaking spam and, and get away with a lot if it was part of a theme. Right? Right. If you're ogling the, the, the flatware and the glassware and everything else, the whole time, you know, you're singing and you're, you went to a dinner party once. It was work related. One of our trustees, and she had the most exquisite Venetian goblets three, like for each, like for three courts. So you'd have your water goblet, you know those incredibly fine water goblet and two wine glasses. So there are these three things. I'm thinking, please God, don't drop this. Do not break a glass. Please do not break a glass.'cause you know there are yeah, hundreds, if not thousands of dollars a thing, whatever. So I, I could not tell you what I had to eat because. I was too busy thinking about the glassware, you know? So we it out. Am I gonna drop it? Right? Oh my God, that sounds like sort of a, um, who was it? Leslie Nielsen. Naked Gun. You know, I could see him, his hands shaking. I know. And I thought of the poor staff who were serving like, oh my God, if you, you know, Nick a plate or a goblet or whatever you're like. Oh shit. Yeah, that is So, yeah, I can't do that. And there are sometimes when I have people over and I'm using what I think of as the good China, which is the pottery that we had made after we got married, instead of doing like the traditional China, and I'll have people actually like. Uh, in a, in a kind and pulse, you know, sort of like say, oh, are you sure you want to use that? What? Oh gosh, what if one of'em breaks? And I'm like, well, the woman who made it, Neil Cole, God bless her soul, said that she was determined that, you know, pottery was to be used. And somebody came into her shop once and saw one of her dad's bean pots. And it was being, it was either, it either was actually cooking, like, you know, or it was. I don't know, being used as a planter or something. She wouldn't have defiled it that way. But the point was, this was a gallery owner and he's like, you can't use ar, Kohl's pots. Those things, you know, they're, they're so valuable now. And she's like, Ugh. My daddy would spin in the grave if he thought that I was putting a bean pot on a shelf. You know, revering it like that. Yeah. So I feel the same way about like tables table wear, though. And it's a fine line. You want your guests to feel comfortable, you know? And I think the Venetian goblets, as exquisite as they were, was just beyond my comfort zone. But I, I agree. I like to use my grandmother was the same way. Like, well, don't you know, the Sterling wasn't for special occasions. It was for dinner every day. Yeah. And the dishes, the glass door, it's like, well, you know, just to use the things she had, which might've been nice or might've been plain, but you know. What kind of, what kind of a dinner party and, and it could be like for a birthday or something, would gram throw your grandmother? It'll be very, uh, you know, traditional. She also had the most remarkable, I will say, as an aside timing, sense of timing. Every meal that she put on the table, you know, if dinner was gonna be at six o'clock, everything was just, boop was ready. To go on the table. Everyone seated, like just done. There was no, and you know, without breaking a sweat, it just happened. It was just all ready. I'm so deeply jealous of that. Deeply, deeply, deeply jealous. Yeah, I know. And, and I, I have to be really, you know, thinking it, but it was just, and she had no anxiety or betrayed, no anxiety around any of it was just all, it just happened. That's the way it went, you know? But anyway, she would probably do like a. Roast beef, you know, and mashed potatoes, very traditional old school kind of things. Um, and or casserole, you know, I loved, oh my God, her Hammond egg casserole, like, which is basically just chopped ham. Like, so if you had, you know, whenever there was a say the Easter ham or something, well you had leftovers, so the ham was chopped and then hard boiled eggs were chopped, mixed in a white sauce. Oh my God. That's good. I got, which she put, it's very buttered breadcrumbs on top of the Yes. Of the casserole. Yes. And then throw it in the oven until it was all bubbling. Yep, yep. Oh, I'm so hungry. And in the south we'd say that was city ham. You put city ham and chopped eggs, and then you the white. So the white sauce. And then, but I bet you, I bet you she used like something really good, like probably Ritz crackers, you know, maybe a little bit of extra butter even. Yes. She was not, uh, she was not one who was afraid of butter. That's my woman. That's it. Oh, that's so, so fun. Putting together, like when, uh, when I was younger and when in the winter or fall when all the men would go out hunting, you know, she'd put on a lunch, you know, for everybody. But it was a lunch with the good dishes and coffee was served afterwards and everything. It was just, it was a lovely meal, but. And the men all came in in their hunting gear and of course they were careful to wipe their boots or whatever, but you know, it wasn't, it wasn't sort of, it was just, oh, well I'm, I'm gonna have a nice meal. It's doesn't matter that they'd all just come in from the woods, you know? Oh my God, I love that. Do you have any pictures from that, from those events? Yeah, there, there must be, I know there are pictures say from Thanksgiving or other things like that. You know, the, the other things were sort of, you know, it seemed run in the mill, so you didn't think about taking a picture, I guess, you know. Um, yeah. But there are some from Thanksgiving or some birthday dinners and that kind of thing. Oh, that's fun. Well, um, what, so what is the most hilarious, uh, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put you on the spot for a second and then you can like totally, you know, berate me and abuse me for doing this. But do you remember one of the first dinner parties, um, I gave where of course you were in college. Uh, if you, if you prompt me, I have a terrible memory. I No, that's okay. If you ask my mother, she could tell me something about it. Here's Well, that's right. Thank god. Somebody's gotta remember this stuff. No, uh, here's why I remember it, is that it was like the best of all possible worlds and the, and the best of times and the worst of times. You know, it was, I remember it was one of my first really good roast chicken dinners. It was when we were on, um, federal Street Federal. It was, it was senior year, I think. And, um, and we were, uh, it was, it was hilarious because it started out really genteel and then it devolved there may or may not wait. Was this, was this the food fight? Yes. Yes, I do remember that. Okay. And at one point in time, this beautiful roast chicken dinner with all the trimmings. Devolved of course into the food fight in the front yard. Thank you God. So that I didn't have to clean it up too much in the kitchen, but one of the things I remember we hurled at one another were kippers and what on earth was I doing with kippers at a roast chicken dinner? It was kiper and whip did do not know. That was, it was about the most revolting two things you could put in the same sentence, you know, together. Well, kippers can stand alone as pretty revolting. Yeah. I don't know too many people who would contradict me because even people who love kippers would, would at least acknowledge that they're ugly as shit. I mean, you wouldn't wanna necessarily see, that's why they're served in silver, you know, chafing dishes because they're so ugly. They've gotta be dressed up somehow. Yeah, but I remember, I remember that that dinner party slash food fight, so well, I don't, I don't know. I think the dinner party was enhanced by it personally. Yeah. I, and I cannot remember another dinner party where there's been a food fight. That's true. Thank God. What, what's the, what is, are you, can you come up with like the penultimate either best or worst dinner party that like springs to mind? And it doesn't have to be one where I was there, I just. I brought that one up because that was both the best and the worst in my, in my lived experience, particularly as a hostess. Uh, well, you know, it's funny. One, one occasion that comes to mind because it was so stressful was a New Year's Eve dinner that we were doing for a fair number of people. I mean, like, it was probably, you know, eight or 10, and I was doing, I remember at that time little individual, like Quas game hen kind of things, you know? Which, thank God I've got outta that face. But so various friends were in town, blah, blah. And there was another group of friends who were friends with this group who we knew, but you know, whatever. And somehow they learned that, oh, this friend was gonna be in town and coming to our dinner. And so like, oh, hey, can we join you all for, you know, for, for dinner? This is the day of mind you, um, you know, four people can four more people come to dinner. You know, when, and I, you know, and. I, I'm like, oh my God. Not only, of course, the stores, whatever were closed, I couldn't like just go shop extra food. I didn't have the place to where I gonna put them, whatever. And I was like, yeah, I, I, I remember saying like, I, no, I can't, like I have to say no. Anyway, that was very stressful. They did not end up coming, but they made me feel bad'cause I had to say no. Four more people just, I. I can't do it, you know? Anyway, um, I guess I do remember at one time, um, I made for, uh, for my grandmother, um, and she had a, a friend, good friend who lived there in Litchfield, nearby and. Her friend one time was visiting people, paid calls, of course, as they did. And she mentioned that she'd, uh, I dunno how it came onto it, but baked Alaska, she'd never had baked Alaska, you know, and what an interesting, and so I thought, so I said, all right, let's, let's, we're gonna have a lunch. And, um, and somehow too, and people find this disgusting aspect was something that you don't see anymore. You know, remember aspect. And so, so I made a luncheon that included. A tomato aspect with the clear gelatin top and the vegetables all carved and so forth in the for presentations. Of course, that's So you of course. And a baked Alaska for dessert. Um, which came out pretty well, you know, so, and that wasn't, I forget there, obviously I had to other things from aspect, you know, well I bet it was like a chicken salad, a very gentile, you know, delicate chicken salad. You know, I was thinking, was it chicken? But it might have been. But uh, anyway, so that was fun because it was just sort of a well baked Alaska, why not? Let's try that. I'd never had it either, so, you know. How did it turn out though? It was good. It was really, it was very good. And, uh, was it bake even mask the, like ice cream and then you put meringue on it and, and bake it till it's just brown. Yes. And these days a lot of people just use a blowtorch, you know, um, to, to brown the meringues as opposed to having to put it in the oven and so forth. But I, I had to put it in the oven. Um, yeah, so, and uh, yeah, I mean, I am trying to think if there's anything else that's like. I made for my mother's 80th birthday. I did a, I made lobster Newberg for her, which was, oh god, you know. With the little pastry shells and the whole, the whole nine. Um, that's probably like the last most ambitious thing I've done for God. That's beautiful though. Oh my God. I love lobster new, well, I love lobster and I love anything that it has cream on it and it has sherry in it, so it's all of my hallmarks. Yes, yes. I know. I'm trying to think of, of things that I've made that were triumphant, but it's mostly. It's mostly like, yay, it, you know, I got through it and, and I, and it was okay. I tell you what, one of my favorite things, and now I've, I've adopted this for mom. Is this something that we called Big V Chicken? I have no idea. Then there's someone else called it Chicken Supreme, whatever. Everyone has one of these recipes where you, um. But you can't tell people what you're giving them.'cause they'll get all horrified with the amount of butter and cream and all that kind of stuff. And they'll just, like, their arteries will clog as they listen to the menu as it unfolds. And it's that you marinate these chicken breasts in a marinade of sour cream and a. Like a ton of poultry seasoning and salt and vinegar and everything, but it's, and then the next day, and you really have to like do it overnight. You have to do it overnight. And then the next day you pull it out of the glop and it's still got a really heavy coating of, um. Of marinade on it because it's sour cream and some of the moisture is evaporated out of the marinade. And then you put it, um, in breadcrumbs. And then once it's, you know, you sort of delicately place it in the pan. And then the last thing you do is you pour like two sticks of butter, melted butter. Oh, over the top. Thank God. And it is so good though, George. It's Oh, I bet. It's just so, so good, but you know that that is always a crowd pleaser. But you can't ever divulge what's in the recipe. Right? Right. And I've already already served Big V Chicken to people. I, I, a lot of people I love, so now they already know the Secret and their arteries have already recovered or not. But yeah, I, I, but I, I think one of the things that makes all of this kind of kerfluffle worthwhile though, is that it, there are, there are. I think there's a big argument to be made for dinner parties as a really, really, really good opportunity to connect or reconnect with people because it forces in some ways, which is why a lot of people don't like it, a certain connection or conversation. Oh. Now, I will say that now you've done dinner parties both for fun and for for work. I, I hear differing arguments on dinner parties for work because some people say it loosens people up. You know, you get to be yourself a little more around the table unless you're jockeying, you know, thousand dollar Venetian glass. But some people say too that it's not great for work because then it becomes all about the food and not about, you know. The, the, maybe the, you know, the thing you're trying to support or the thing you're trying to accomplish, where do you land on that? Or does it just depend? Well, I think probably almost every work related dinner party that I've been to has been catered. So there was no worry about, you know, food or staff or anything, or, um, and I think it, I, I always thought it was in a great way, like you say, to make connections and people, especially if you can have someone do it in their home, even if they're, they haven't lifted a finger in the kitchen, but you know, you're in their home and it, it just, it's a, it is, it's a relaxed. Sort of thing. It builds, it does build a sort of a friendship, a connection, and, and you get to, uh, you know, just, um, see people in their elements. So I, I think it's a, I always thought of dinners were, and I, I still believe in, uh, you know, seating dinners because it's such an art to putting the right people together. Oh, you know, because, oh, see, that's smart. You want people to have a good time and, um, it just, I, I'm, I'm a big believer in seating even I will admit for, you know, like we always seat our, you know, Thanksgiving dinner and our Christmas dinner because you know that some people. You know, whatever, see each other all the time. And so they don't necessarily need to, but someone else doesn't. Or some pe some people, you know that that person's gonna talk their ear off and you need to give'em a break because you gave them to them last year. So, you know, and I know you're looking right at me, George. Damn it. Not at all. Oh, no. Absolutely true. But, but it's also good too because it sometimes when you can, when you manage that dynamic, you bring people out too, because the talker can sometimes do the, the yeoman's work of bringing people into the table if they're not like they're most comfortable. I think a lot of Now, it's interesting, I think, ha, about half of my friends. Are lovers of dinner parties and half of'em either don't have any experience with dinner parties these days, or they're just not fond of'em.'cause they, it's a lot of, there's a little bit of theater attached to it, you know. And, and obligation to, to talk and, and, you know, all that kind of stuff. I, and I, I don't run into that too often, but I, I feel like, I feel like that, that, that pretty well covers the whole of my community of friends and family. Most of'em are fine with it, but some of'em are like, I love you to pieces. No. Interesting.'cause I, I mean, I, I do enjoy it. I think, uh, you know, getting together with friends, you know, very casually, but still having a dinner party or, you know, using it as an excuse to put two sets of friends together who may know each other and they get along well, but they don't necessarily see each other all the time. And. So, and I, I love going to a dinner party'cause if someone else is cooking me dinner, you know all for it. But I know, oh my God. Talk about theater too. That is so much fun. When you get to see, and I really like when people put me or I offer very often, I. So put me to work, and it doesn't have to be glamorous stuff, like I don't have to be sous chef or chopping anything or whatever. Like if you need, you know, two more forks washed out of the dishwasher or something, which would be my jam. I, you know, then yeah, put me on the scut work. Now, do you, when you're hosting a dinner party, do you want people to just kind of like, stay in their lane and be a guest? Or how often do you invite'em into the, to the kitchen? Well, I mean, people will go into the kitchen whether they're invited or not. You know, it's just the way people are and there is, and since that's where our bars. Yeah, no, and that's where our bar is set up. So I also though, again, I, I really do try to have most everything ready to go ahead of time. I'm uhhuh and, you know, I'm, I'm very, uh, neurotic. I like my plan. So I would say it's rare that there's really any little task or anything left to do, you know, once people get there. So now you, but I, no, I, what were you gonna say? Oh, oh, no. I mean, I things like, um, you know, helping out at the bar or something. If, if everybody arrives all at once and, you know, I'm stirring something or somebody, you know, I'm, it's rare these days too, I guess, when either we're going to a dinner party or we're having dinner party where. They're not just good friends. You know what I mean? Yeah. So you're not really, there are, yeah, there are occasions where somebody's new or someone's never been to the house or something and you know, so you do. I, I always want to be a little more. Attentive and ready in that situation, or, or if you're going to some, a new neighbor's house or something, you don't really know them that well. That's where my, I just click right back into work gear and realize, okay. It's like a tennis match. You've gotta keep that conversation going, you know, falling, sir. Okay, now it's back to you. Okay. It's back to me, you know? Oh my God. I love you, George. That is so exactly right, but that's true. I, that's what I think is particularly fun too, that the true there is an art form that is the art to it. And, and coming up with a menu that accommodates that too, because the, the, it has to go hand in hand. I mean, that's the other thing, like the thing about the roast chicken, and I'll stop. You know, harping on the roast chicken, God damn, I've made so many roast chickens in my life. But the beautiful part about it is that it really is something that we don't necessarily make for ourselves every day. Right? And you can make it in advance and it needs to rest for 20 minutes or something. Anyway. But the, but the difference is that, you know, it requires particularly, you know, you're, you're butchering, you're not butchering but carving it into maybe eight pieces typically. And it requires fork and knife and sort of cutting it off the bone. And, and you know, that's, it's funny because there, there's a moment in, um. An Andy Griffith program where the character Briscoe Darling played by Denver Pile, and he comes down from the mountains with his boys periodically and you know, engages with some shenanigans and invariably be feeds them at this barge table where the boys speak near a word. And at one point, you know, a B is kind of flustered because nobody's said anything as they dig into her meal and. Uh, Denver pile looks up in amazement and says, well, Eaton speaks louder than words. And I think that's the lovely thing about roast chicken is that yes, it, it requires a little bit of focus and it might sort of detract from, you know, a repartee, um, in the conversation because you have to like work and you're thinking about it and everything. But then it's also, you know, just really good food. I can't think of a particular thing. Other than the Big V chicken, which is so deeply bad for you, I can't think of another meal that I think really is perfect. Oh, no, I can, and you make the best one is lasagna. Yeah. Again, do ahead, you know. Oh God, you're lasagna So good. Tell me about your, your favorite lasagna to make and then, and I'll leave you alone. Well, the smoked salmon lasagna, you know, which is a bechamel white sauce. So not a tomato-based thing, but um, yeah, gosh, I got that out of gourmet in I wanna say 1990 or something like that. And I have made that smoked salmon lasagna. Every soul that's ever walked into our house, I mean, over the years. 35 years or whatever. But it's great'cause it's, it's rich, but it's, uh, pretty universal. I mean, if most people. You know, someone might have an allergy, but not probably a smoked salmon is, you know, salty and delicious and most everybody likes it. And anyway, so it's, that's, that's one of the, the great standbys and it's made ahead so you're just, you know, maybe it's cooling a little bit from the oven when people arrive, so it's smells good. And then you're ready to go. You know, simple salad. I love the bread. I'm done. Oh my God, I'm so, now I'm hungry. Okay. So every podcast, all two of them so far, I'm gonna end with this question. What do I want for dinner? And now that you've mentioned lasagna, damn it. Actually I mentioned it, so it's my fault now. I want freaking lasagna. What, what, what do I want for dinner, George? What do I want for dinner? Uh uh. You mean I have to tell you what you want for dinner? Is that right? Well, yeah, and if you wanna be really selfish, you can talk about what you're gonna have for dinner and maybe it will inspire me and maybe it won't, but it's all about me, damnit. So I feel like you always, you'd always want pasta of some kind, but you know, that's what I. But what are you gonna have healthy? Because you're a healthy eater and if you say grain bowl, then the conversation is ended. Well, we're having cod because living in a fishing port, we, uh. Have fish very often. So Pat went to the fish market and got a nice piece of cod and uh, I believe some Brussels sprouts and some pat's smashed potatoes, which are, you boil the potatoes and then you put them on a baking sheet, smash them olive oil, salt, and then bake them. Oh. And they're delicious. Oh my God. That sounds good. Okay. That'll do. That'll do. I, I wish I had fish eaters in the house, but I can find something like, I can make That's a nice thing too about cod or some of those, um, fishes as opposed to, well, even with, um, shellfish is that you can make singular portions and I can, you know, make chicken for the non fish eaters. I raised my children all wrong. That they don't like fish, but Okay. Well they may, they may come around to it, you know, tastes change. It is. It is early in the game. Oh my God. Well thank you for saving me. Thank you for saving me with what I want for dinner. I think I'll, uh, yeah, it's gonna be something, but the smash potatoes. Holy shit. That sounds really, they are delicious and so easy. I mean, it's a little bit of extra work because you're, you know, boiling'em to cook them and then you're baking them to roasting them to, you know, crisp them up and all, but, oh boy. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now I'm hungry. Okay. That's it. Thank you. Thank you.

43:17

Okay, so George has done it to me again. Now I'm really hungry for smashed potatoes, but I already have plans to make pasta. Damn it. Well, I'm really glad that you guys joined me for that conversation because now I'm inspired to give a dinner party and I might have to try something new in my repertoire, but I'm gonna keep it simple. I'm not going fussy. I'm gonna not be an uptight hostess. I'm gonna remember that the biggest thing about giving a dinner party or a family dinner is just people around the table. I'm a broken record, you guys connection around the table and I'm so glad you connected with me here today. I really appreciate listening and I hope you'll tune into another episode'cause I'm at Fran's table and there's plenty of room here. Grab a seat.