Sherpa Leadership Podcast

Episode 15 - When Your Leadership Audio Matches Your Video

• Sherpa Consulting Group • Season 1 • Episode 15

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0:00 | 47:06

Your values don’t become real when you say them out loud. They become real when the people closest to you can predict how you’ll act under pressure, in conflict, and when nobody is clapping. We’re closing our first iServe leadership model series with what might be the most confronting habit of all: embody the values, because leadership trust is built when your audio matches your video.

We unpack why skills, drive, and charisma can “win the day” for a while, but long-term organizational leadership is sustained by integrity, character, and consistency. Values are better caught than taught, so we talk about what it looks like to model mission, vision, and values in the moments that actually shape workplace culture: hiring and firing decisions, hard conversations, boundaries, and how we respond when we’re stressed, tired, or triggered.

We also name two ditches leaders fall into. One is hypocrisy, where we ask others to live standards we don’t practice and slowly leak credibility. The other is hiding, where perfectionism pushes us to cover up small failures until they turn into something catastrophic. Authentic leadership is the path out: owning misalignment, repairing quickly, and inviting challenge so blind spots don’t quietly run the show. To make it practical, we leave you with three questions, including the gut-check: if someone followed you for 30 days, what values would they say you live by?

If you want to strengthen trust, build a healthier culture, and lead by example at work and at home, hit subscribe, share this with a fellow leader, and leave a review so more people can find the Sherpa Leadership Podcast.

Cold Open On Congruence

SPEAKER_01

Does the audio match the video? Do you practice what you preach? Do you live the values?

SPEAKER_00

We believe that values specifically are better caught than taught.

SPEAKER_01

You're listening to the Sherpa Leadership Podcast, your guide to climbing higher in life and leadership. I'm Reed Moore, and alongside Chase Williams, we're here to help you break through obstacles, scale your potential, and lead with greater clarity and purpose. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Sherpa Leadership Podcast. We're here to help you climb higher in life and leadership. And as always, my name is Reed Moore, here with my co-founder, co-partner, Chase Williams. What's up, everybody? Hey guys, we're here to help you break through obstacles and just to really build your life. And we are landing the plane today on our first series, going through the iServe leadership model, really talking about what does it look like to be an organizational leader? What are the different elements that we need to continue to grow in, that we need to double down on. And we've had some amazing guests. We actually have another amazing guest right after this episode uh next month, uh Paul Hansen. But to get the party started, we are we are landing the plane with uh what's maybe arguably the most important out of all those. And maybe we've said that over and over again, but this is where the rubber meets the road.

SPEAKER_00

It is, and I think that's why it's it's uh accurate to say it might be the most important. Uh, and that is embody the values, right? It's the final one in I serve, but again, not uh last, not because it's least. What I love about um even the way we describe these habits is that they can be built and developed, right? So we hope that as you're listening to these podcasts and you're listening to our guests that we're interviewing, you're realizing just like we are, that no one kind of fell on the top of the mountain of leadership and no one came out of the womb with all these habits that we talk about that are super important, fully developed, right? Fully baked. Um, you know, this is a journey and a process. And so um I do love this one because ultimately um it is where the rubber meets the road, as you said, and it kind of um defines all the rest of the habits, if you will. So, what do I mean when I say read that embodying the values might help or or in part define the rest of the habits of the iServe model?

Trust Is Built By Alignment

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um, you know, a lot of times people get into leadership positions because of their skill, sometimes because of their drive, uh, because of their vision, a bunch of the other things that we have talked about. But if we want uh a leadership journey to last and to really do a great job uh when when we look at just the basic tenets of leading, which is you are asking me to help you go somewhere in your life. Yep. Right? And so that the nature of that relationship is that I have to trust that you are actually going in this direction and you're gonna be doing this in a healthy way. And uh for a short period of time, our skills, our drive, our charisma, whatever those things are that make up our our leadership attraction, um, they can really uh they can they can win the day, right? But when you look at long-term organizational leadership in a business or especially at home, what actually shows up in a powerful way uh for the good or the bad, for the people that are following you, is do you uh does the audio match the video? Do you practice what you preach? Do you live the values?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's so true. And that's why this habit, if you will, is uh one of maybe the most confronting of the iServe model, because it's exactly that. It's like, hey, are you are uh is your video matching your audio? Right? I think it was Art Williams and he's got this great uh southern accent that I can't duplicate. He's like, you know, there's these people who who they you know they talk so smart and they look so pretty, and those things, you know, can create a certain level of influence in the short term. Sure. But when someone peeks behind the curtain, right? I'm looking at the curtains here and I'm thinking about like peeking behind the curtain of you you look so pretty and you talk so smart, are you the type of person that um models, embodies what you're saying or or or what you're talking about, or what you're teaching, right? Right? Something uh to that effect. So um this can be a really confronting one, and it's why it can also be one of the most helpful ones for for self-reflection.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Like if have you ever, maybe um, as a parent sometimes, have you ever said something to one of your kids that you knew was actually right on target, it was it was well said, you believe it with your whole heart, and you want that for them because you think you know that that it will help guide them in life.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then in the back of your mind, you thought, yeah, like that'd be good advice for me. That sounds like good advice for me, yeah, right? While I'm while I'm you know with with um conviction, sharing it with someone who I really, really love and care about. Have you ever done that? Maybe it's just me, right? Yes. Like, ooh, yeah. And I I'm confronted with this idea of like, if I really want that for them and I'm saying it because I really believe it, way beyond just saying that, I want to embody that. Yes. Because my my kid in this example, or anyone that I lead, is going to to some degree hear what I'm saying, and to some degree maybe believe what I'm saying.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But if I'm embodying that and they see me demonstrating that, they peek behind the curtain and it's like, oh, dad does that thing he said I should do, or dad behaves in that way that he said maybe I should think about behaving. Uh, the power that comes with that and the the validity that comes with that is just astronomically higher than just something I said.

SPEAKER_01

It's such a firm foundation for leading. And um this this whole concept is just wrought with with peril, right? Yeah. And and there's there's probably two ditches that we can think about along this road. One is that I'm leading and I'm telling other people these are the values, these are the values, these are the values. And if they're with me long enough, they don't see the audio and the video magic. Right. That's problematic. It's problematic, right? And and you'll start losing influence and um and and it'll show up in other ways that other people then lead following you. There's the other one, and that is that you think that this is such a high value, which it is, that you think to embody the values means to be perfect. You can't fail, don't let them see you fail, don't let them see you sweat, all of those things. So what happens then is you go into hiding, right? I can't let anybody see that deep down the audio and the video don't match up in me. And so now I go the direction that a lot of leaders go, and that is I go into this hiding. So if I'm over here and the audio and the video don't match, I'm going to have lots of low-level friction for a long duration of time. If I go this route of hiding, uh, I'm going to have very little friction and then a catastrophic failure. Yes. And we want to talk about some things that keep us out of both ditches today, because the reality is we have to figure out what does it look like to embody the values while we're still growing and while we're still becoming. Because people don't need to see you be perfect. Um if there's a level of humility and transparency as a leader, you're going to get a lot of grace from people as you work this stuff out in your own leadership.

Values Are Caught Not Taught

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, particularly in how you respond to those moments of we'll call it failure. Yes. Right. And so we'll talk through a little bit about uh about that as we go. Um one of the things that that we wanted to make sure we share is that we believe that values specifically um are better caught than taught. Yes. And it's really like a kind of a good way of saying what we've already said, which is um, I hear what you're saying, but I'm watching you live your life. And are you modeling what you're saying is good for me, right? A value. Yes. And so like um it's better caught than taught. And we know that to uh to be true, right? Going back to the parenting example, we say things like uh do as I do, do as I say, not as I do. Yes. Well, does that really work? Because we know that the doesn't fall far from the tree, meaning they're gonna, they're gonna do what you do more so than anything that you would say to them. And so when you're thinking about leading in an organization or leading people, right, we talk about things like mission, vision, and of course, values. Like if people uh don't see, if they don't see those in the leader, they don't see them demonstrated regularly and consistently over time, not with perfection, but consistently over time. Um, if they don't see the the leader or the leaders living these things out, then we have this problem of the audio not matching the video.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And and you can see this when when people show up in a really good way, especially when when they maybe mature a little bit, you'll hear and and I hear you say this all the time. My dad taught me this. And then there's this this uh this proverb or this thought or this something when this this person who mentored you brought wisdom along. But those and and then it usually comes with a story around how he modeled that for you. Yeah, right. And as people um in an organization, in a family, uh, you know, it's it's better caught than taught. And the reality is is we as people don't really um grasp onto uh internal concepts unless they're witnessed. Right. Uh you go to a class and you learn all about integrity. Uh, you know, uh every year in our industry we have continual education, and there's a whole thing about how to how to you know like a decision-making matrix. Right. And uh and and people that that carry uh you know that license, uh I have not found that that they are really good at at this because you know, every couple years they went through continuing education. Right. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Continuing education does not integrity make.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So so we look at that and we say, okay, so I want to build uh a great family, I want to build a big business, and and more than just a big business, I want to build a culture that I'm proud of that empowers and encourages other people. Okay, they're not gonna get that from a sign on the wall. Right, right? Uh that might be an okay thing to do. It might be encouraging in a moment, especially when you're walking somebody through and showing them at a cursory glance your culture. But the reality is that when we see the best leaders, we have seen them embody the things that they taught so that people can actually see not just the word, but they can say, see it demonstrated out in their decision-making matrix. Like, how does this person hire? How does this person fire? How does this person deal with hard conversations? How do they deal with conflict? How do they deal with all kinds of different scenarios? Um you need to witness it, right? And it is interesting because this shows up one of the things I've done for years is uh unless it's a uh kind of a proprietary conversation or a very delicate conversation, I've I've uh usually worked out of my office in a more open space whether people can hear the way I'm having a conversation with our kids. Some really hard conversations or things that we have to navigate, we will do them in front of our kids. Now there's some that that's not appropriate for. But how is it that I want my kids to uh know how to apply a value to a real world situation or the people that uh I'm leading if they've never seen it modeled. They've never seen the discomfort and they've never seen the consistency or lack of consistency to be able to dialogue and talk about, right? Um pretty hard to teach those things.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it is, and and actually that example that you just used there, I have the good fortune of witnessing this in you, right? Like you being on the phone, out in the middle of lots of people inside of our organization, occasionally having a direct or a fierce or really important conversation that that it would be easy for me to think, oh, I wonder why Reed's like having that out here where everyone can hear, versus like in a closed-door conference room or otherwise. Um, and if if you were to suggest maybe that I would consider that in my own leadership journey, well, I get to watch you do that and understand the value of it. And so now it's been demonstrated. I've witnessed like, oh, I can see where like I'm learning just listening to Reed. And so are all these other people. So uh if I had the opportunity in an appropriate way to do something similar, um, I might be able to uh to offer some of that value to others I'm around as well. But it's not something that you said and and don't do because I get to watch you do that, right? Yeah. What came to mind in this idea of witnessing something and how that helps anchor our understanding of it, if you'd never heard of an apple and you'd never tasted an apple, I could sit here for an hour and describe to you like the texture, the taste, and you're just never gonna get it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But if you if you if I showed you one, pulled out of my my bag or whatever, and and you had a bite of it, you you automatically everything that I just shared starts to come into clear focus in one instant.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And the hour before that, you're like, what is this guy even talking about? Right. And replace Apple with whatever. Yeah. In this case, we're talking about leadership. And that's so, so, so true. So it it it's our responsibility as leaders to ask the question regularly over and over and over Am I embodying these values that I'm uh teaching and talking about and inviting others to um to follow?

The Two Ditches Hypocrisy And Hiding

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's funny, it made me think that I watched this comedian one time. He's like, How would you describe a chicken to somebody who's never seen or experienced a chicken? He's like, Well, it's like a meat football. It's like, well, what does it do? Well, it goes around and and eats and then it and then it poops more food. Yeah, you can't, it's just like, what is happening right now? Right? Exactly. I love it. Okay, so when we look at this and we say, okay, so embodying the values really is is uh maybe uh shorthand for embodying the mission, the vision, the values, beliefs, and perspectives of your organization. And that means that people need to see it, it needs to be demonstrated, and then it needs to be lived consistently. Um one of the things that I I think is really important about um embodying the values is that this over time just can't be done with willpower. You you are we are all prone to failing when willpower is the foundation of any area of our life. But specifically things that come to integrity and moral character, yeah, right? Those are not things where willpower can just do it. So it means that I actually have to work on myself and growing and changing myself into the kind of person that I intend on becoming, yeah, or else this is going to be a massive failure point in my leadership.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think the underpinning question that that followers or people that you lead, right, will ask is you know, you can you can talk about the values as much as you'd like, and you should, by the way. But ultimately, the the question they're asking internally, maybe not out loud, is all those things that you're telling me about, Reed, that you have written up on the board and you have in these nice materials for the company. Do I see those things in you?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Over a reasonable period of time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Uh, that's when they start to uh uh gain power and and take life, breathe life into the values. Is like I like I hear you, I agree with those, those sound amazing, and then I'm watching, right? I'm watching and I'm experiencing or not experiencing uh is is that how I see you living? Right, right. A mentor of mine told me one time, and I'll never forget, he said an organization tends to take on or adopt the characteristics of the leader. Sure. Or the leaders, right? Characteristics, not adopt what the leader says, right, not adopt what was written on the wall, adopt the characteristics of how that leader is actually showing up in the world, yeah, in that organization and behaving. And I believe that to be true. I've watched that happen over and over and over again, as you would think it probably would.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's why um you see some of these uh generational challenges happen inside of families. Yeah, whether it's alcoholism or whatever it may be, right? Some of these just awful things, they they tend to have a high likelihood of being passed on to the next generation because the family, just like an organization, tends to, it's not 100%, take on the characteristics in some shape, form, or fashion of the leaders of the family.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and even when they don't tend to take on the characteristics, they don't tend to move to a healthy space. They tend to swing very far the other way. Right. So uh one of the ways maybe of thinking about this is that everybody who is um you're responsible for in your life, uh you are constantly giving them boundaries and permissions. Right? Not by what you say, but by what you do. Right. So so if I if I look at this and it's really, really healthy, I'm demonstrating healthy time boundaries. I'm demonstrating healthy boundaries when it comes to the way you allow other people to treat you. And I'm demonstrating permission in the areas of you can shoot for your big goals, you have permission to think bigger, you have permission to fire that client because they're abusive, right? Uh and so how did you get there? Well, you watch me, you know, maybe have a conversation and say, you know what, I don't know that we're a good fit. That's okay. Right? And so boundaries and permission are always coming from my leadership. Now, boundaries and permission can be really, really problematic too, because they just exist.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So uh when when uh if you look at somebody who's maybe trying to uh sell their business right now or move it on to the next generation, one of the constant challenges that people have right now that are maybe in their 60s is their leadership journey may have, not always, but may have been marked with extreme workaholism. Right? And so they told everybody in their world through their actions um, if you want to be me, you have to sacrifice everything else and have no boundaries when it comes to work. Right? Yep. So the next generation that that comes comes maybe with some better boundaries in place and they look at that and and they want success, sure, but they don't want that boundary lead bound boundarylessness, yeah, um, they're not going to follow past a certain point and they're not gonna step into what might be an incredible opportunity for them because they don't see a boundary there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because the audio is not matching the the video. And in essence, if I'm trying to sell you my business and I'm like, Reed, this is such a great opportunity. You're gonna make great money, you're gonna have all this free time, you're gonna love it. And then you're like, dude, I've been watching you for the last five years.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It doesn't look like you have any free time. It doesn't seem like you love it. And there's a whole a lot of other dysfunction in your life that I can kind of see because of this business that you own. Yes. That that's what I hear you say. That's exactly right. Yeah. Like, okay, so and you want me to have that? Like, I think I'm good, right? And um, and and again, it it's it's we're we're we're joking, laughing about it because it's such a common thing. And there's nothing funny about it. But the idea is, okay, if that's an example of someone not embodying the values, you can see where it creates a challenge in them selling their business or finding a successor for their role.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because there's a gap there. Yes, right?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

So let me ask you this, Reed. Like, what are some what are some examples or thoughts that you have around sometimes when a leader may unintentionally betray um the their values, right?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh you will. Unintentionally, but yes, you will. You you will.

Why Leaders Drift Out Of Integrity

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Because it it it's just it's so pervasive, right? There are some things when we when we think about like a uh a failure when it comes to values, but it can be as simple as me reacting versus responding in a hard situation because you know I'm sleep deprived, I'm stressed out, money's tight, my wife and I just got in a fight, and now somebody asks me something I think is a stupid question. And I have a core value of building people, and now I react at this person in a way that doesn't build them. Yeah. Right? That's that's a failure, right? Now so there's a broad scope, so it doesn't mean everybody's going to have a massive failure, right? Right. But when when we look at this, this is there, there's a couple of things. Number one is you are going to fail. Right? Integrity is not about never failing. Integrity, uh, it's it's it's this idea of integrated, right? It's going back to the audio matches the video, two circles when you line them up, they line up and they they you know they come together. And so if I'm looking at this and say, okay, so my me uh living into these values means me being in integrity. There's going to be moments where you fall out of integrity. And because the audio doesn't match the video, what you say you value, you show up in a different way. So then the question is, well, what do you do there? Now you have to be careful because you have this ditch that's calling you, which is don't let them know that you can fail. Don't let them know that you fell short of the standard. There's some there's some big problems with that. The first one is this is a road for you having increased um failures when it comes to integrity and value. Because if you don't Get help or you don't make things right in that moment, you've just opened kind of Pandora's box. Sure. Right. The other thing is that if people look at you and you're so good at hiding all the little things that you fail at, um, they may not want to follow you because they can never measure up to this unrealistic, untrue standard. Right?

SPEAKER_00

So that's it. All you're ever all you're ever sharing is the highlight reel. And the times that you won and nailed it.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. I want my kids to think of me as a superhero. I want them to think like I like, you know, when they're doing my eulogy, I want them to say amazing stories about me. But I want them to be true, and I want them to be stories of what made dad so great was when he messed up, he made it right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Not dad never messed up, and so as a result, I'm scared to try and fail.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's not helpful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there's this word that pops up more and more lately in leadership, which I think is a good thing, and it's authenticity. Right? And and a part of authenticity is I can share appropriately uh authentically when I messed up. Authentically when I when I temporarily was out of alignment with what I said my values are. Yeah. When I screwed up or I failed, or I I reacted a poor way, or I've been telling the people on my team that this time management tool that they should bring to the Monday morning meeting every week is really important and valuable, and I haven't brought mine in three weeks. Yes. Right? Something like that. It's like, okay, whoops, I'm I'm I'm out of alignment with what I actually hold as a value. Yes. So now I can authentically um bring that into the light and then come back to alignment. Yes. And I think what I hear you saying is, and this idea of authenticity is that's actually endearing to people who want to follow you because they screw up too. And when they know that you occasionally screw up, but you're willing to share it, talk about it, come back into alignment after it. Yeah, now it's this thing that's in the light, it that is just a normal part of a journey, a human existence is messing up once in a while. And that's very endearing to people who would like to follow you, but would not like to follow something that they can never connect with or measure up to. It's much harder.

SPEAKER_01

There are some reasons that we consistently can find ourselves out of integrity that that may just be worth talking about. One is if we're perpetually under a lot of stress, that will show up, uh, especially when when emotions kind of start to take take control. And one of the ways I've learned to think about this is uh there's there's a huge industry and there's a lot of actually really good stuff around like here's how to discharge stress, right? Like take ashwagandha, do breathing exercise, go to the gym, right? Really, really good stuff. But fundamentally, stress serves another purpose uh for us and leaders, and that is it's an early warning sign that you need to grow. Right? If if I'm constantly being like stressed when certain situations come up, I'm attacking new problems with old toolboxes or old skill sets. Yeah. And so so now as I go, this stress, which will cause me to maybe be out of what we might think of as integrity needed for the moment, um, I'm only equipped for being in integrity back here. Yeah. Right. So so we have we have stress that if it if it if we continue in stress, then we really do have an issue because it means we're we're not growing. Yeah. Right? We're not making hard decisions, so on and so forth. The other one that actually causes us maybe be out of integrity is growth itself. So if you look at somebody who sets a new intention for the new year, like I'm gonna lose 20 pounds and I'm going to run a marathon and I'm going to do this stuff, and here's my regiment, and they share it with everybody because they want to be accountable. And then they have like eat a pizza, like a whole pizza. Yeah. Okay. Like, I can't follow you, you're out of integrity. Well, actually, yeah, you are out of integrity, but you're out of integrity because the old you was totally square with this decision. The new you, you're trying to find your new footing around this. Yeah. And if I'm open and honest, I'm actually working on building into a new level of integrity around these things. And I'm going to fail more when I'm growing, right? It's just gonna happen. It's part of the growth process. It's part of the growth, yeah. Failure is a part of the growth process. That actually means to some degree failures in integrity.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Not moral failures. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about what I said I was going to do and what I actually did are now out of alignment.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Hopefully temporarily.

SPEAKER_00

Temporarily. And that's the difference between uh being open and authentic about a temporary failure but coming back into alignment versus I keep saying and sharing and and preaching this thing that I almost never do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00

That's a hypocrisy, would be the word that we would use there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's like, I've heard Chase say this a hundred times and I've never seen him do it once. Yes. That's actually not a value that I have.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Whatever that may be. Right. So I either need to change that or I need to quit saying that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's right. That's right. You can be a horrible human being and be in integrity.

SPEAKER_00

Like be in alignment with horribleness, right?

SPEAKER_01

I know some people suggesting that, by the way. No, no, it's I agree with you. But I I know some pre some people, and what you see is what you get. Yep. I just don't like what I see or what I get. Sure. But it's not an integrity issue.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right? Uh the other one is actually blind spots, right? Um, when we talk about blind spots, a lot of times we talk about in a way that it's like something we see and we know of we're just not addressing. That's not a blind spot. A blind spot is I'm completely unaware of this thing. And so we can show up in a way uh uh that we we say we want this, we say these are our values, and there's something that we're completely unaware of, maybe with our body language, our facial expressions, our tone of voice, that when we communicate unknown, like completely unknown to us, we are out of integrity as far as the recipient's concerned. And so blind spots are a really good reason not to be a lonely leader. Because uh we had a mutual friend one time that that said, very successful business person, and we were in a group setting, and he just said, you know, in this season of my life, not many people challenge me. And I thought, like, yeah. That that's a scary thing. That's a scary thing that anybody who has achieved any level of success in business gets to a place where there's fewer and fewer people that are willing to challenge you unless you're extremely intentional about that. And and that's that's a problem because when blind spots show up, you are highly likely to continue to operate from the blind spot.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, for sure. And so I think the encouragement here, right, Reed, is and and correct me if I'm off base, but um when you're on this this journey of leadership and you uh you accept that embodying the values, which is what we're talking about, is critical. It's where the rubber meets the road. Inevitably you are going to slip up, make a mistake, veer off from that value, whether it's in a very small way or or or something bigger. And so I think the encouragement is um that's actually normal.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

How you respond to that temporary failure and how you come back to some would call it center, or in this case, coming back to what you hold as a value. And and how people see you respond to that failure is critically important, much more so than trying to always toe the line perfectly because good luck with that. Yeah. So it's not like if I'm gonna mess up, it's how am I going to uh deal with and handle and respond to a mess up so that I don't lose uh credibility, I don't lose influence. Uh I can be authentic as a leader because if I do that well, it actually increases my influence. I become more relatable to those people that I lead. But it's scary, right? It's scary to wonder what people are gonna think when they realize that not everything you touch turns the gold all the time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Oh, there's it, there is an immense uh pressure that you feel as a leader or that you can feel as a leader of I'm not smart enough, uh, people trust me. And if they really knew that I don't know the next five steps on the chessboard, they then they would all leave. Um guess what? Like you don't know the next five steps on the chessboard, right? You you you have maybe have some idea of that, but there's some times where you're you just you literally don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Right? So so I don't know is an acceptable response to those that follow you in the right scenario of when it's true.

Vulnerability Without Losing Influence

SPEAKER_01

It is, yeah. It's absolutely acceptable.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um so so you know, uh Brene Brown, of course, is world famous for her work in the area of vulnerability. Yeah, and vulnerability is such an interesting thing. Um, we didn't grow up with that as a part of the mixture of uh like at least how how I grew up, vulnerability was not part of the family dynamic and maybe not generationally a part of the dynamic. And it's so interesting because over the last maybe uh 10 years working on that in myself, you start to realize there is an extreme difference between when you experience vulnerability from somebody else and what it takes to be vulnerable yourself. Yeah, right? When you experience it in somebody else, you're awestruck. Like you admire it. You admire it. That person's so look at like they're they're brave, they're strong, like courageous, courageous.

SPEAKER_00

And you feel it. You you're like, wow, they just shared that. And I feel closer to them than I did before. They shared that thing that was very vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, totally. Then it's your turn, and it's frozen. Yeah, it's like, and and all of a sudden it's like these are all the things that everybody will think of me.

SPEAKER_00

They'll judge me. Yep. Yep, I'll lose influence, I'll lose position.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And and so then then now we go into this ditch of hiding, and you're setting the seeds of really bad, like, cataclysm at future failure in your leadership.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yep. Okay, Reed. So talk to us about um when we're talking about embodying the values. Why is it so important that these values show up in both our professional life, our personal life? Like, talk to us about this transcendent like idea of how values show up when we're embodying them in our in our world, in our life.

SPEAKER_01

They're too hard to fake for any prolonged period of time. Yep. Agreed. They're just they're just too hard to fake. Yeah. Right? Uh, if you walk with a limp, you can fake knock walking with a lip for a few steps, right? And so when I look at this, I just think the tremendous amount of effort that goes into trying to show up differently in work and at home and in church and in all these different places, um, it will catch up to you or it will wear you out and and ruin other areas of your leadership. And if you zoom out for a second, it's like, hey, if you actually do the really hard work of working on this at the core of who you are, it all gets better.

SPEAKER_00

It touches every area.

SPEAKER_01

It touches everything. Yeah, gosh, so good. And you know, there there are a few areas of values that over the course of time they just they start to not cost you anything. Right? Like um, you might you might be in a in a time period in your life where having hard conversations or being honest, they just don't cost you anything. Like you don't you you don't even think about the consequence, like the the opportunity of lying in that moment, right? Right. Because for the last 15 years, you have consistently followed this one protocol, you literally say the same thing in this type of situation, right? It it doesn't cost you anything. The freedom and the lack of weight when more and more things in your life go into autopilot because it's already predetermined how you show up in that situation, it's unbelievably freeing.

SPEAKER_00

It's incredible. Gosh, it's so true. And here's the reality like you're not living a double life. You you're you're one person, and just like you said, like it's too hard to fake it in one area for for a long period of time. Those people that are trying to live a double life, spoiler alert, they all eventually get exposed. Yeah. And these news, the these news stories are all over the place and they're they're sad, yeah, right? They're tragic. Uh the fall of a leader or the fall of a husband or whatever it may be, right? Like, you you that's only gonna that's gonna catch up with you.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And it and the price is not worth the admission.

unknown

No.

SPEAKER_00

And so if you think of what you said, which is which is so much better, like if you if you can model these things at the core of who you are, your character, it's gonna spill over in a positive way into business and spill over in a positive way into church and positive way in your family and community. Not perfection, no, because we're still gonna screw up, but it's this idea of like, I'm becoming this person that models these values as a human being named Chase, yeah, versus this is how I act at work, this is how I act at home, this is how I act in my community. Yeah, this is just who I am becoming, yeah, right. And that is um, yes, so freeing, and I think ultimately builds an incredible level of influence and leadership. That's really what we're talking about. Yes, right? We both know a gentleman named Bill Thrall. He's a good example. We know a few of these guys, but um, just like you just are around the guy in several different settings. We've been around him when he was speaking to a group at our church, we've been around him in a small group setting on a ranch in Montana. We've been around him in a two-hour car ride after a long plane flight for him.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Same dude. Same guy, same guy, right? Because you know, he spent a lifetime not in perfection, but a lifetime becoming this person that has this character and models with a high level of consistency, these values that he holds.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

And it and it's just like you can you can just see it. It's so obvious.

SPEAKER_01

You want to be around him because you're like, even if it's not the same values, just like the way that this person embodies what they value, um, I want to be like that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And that that's what we would think of as a Sherpa leader, someone you want to follow.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You you want to go to the top, you want to go to the top of the mountain with them. Absolutely. Because of someone like Bill, right? Like someone who just completely embodies that, and you can watch him as long as you'd like in multiple different types of settings, and he is that guy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right?

One Life Across Work And Home

Three Reflection Questions To Apply

SPEAKER_01

We had a couple of interesting experiences. Uh I would I would say I don't recommend this, but I kind of recommend this. Uh, you know, um, we have had a couple different instances where we have had another family or other people come and stay with us at our house for a prolonged period of time, right? And uh we got to do that with a friend of mine. So Rebecca and I went and traveled to Vermont to uh I was teaching a class, we're good friends, and uh, and so she came with us. And so we taught the class, we went and we did the Vermont things, you know, ate uh maple syrup, yeah, out of the tree, of course. Yeah, totally. All the things, right? And then this giant snowstorm blew in. And so what was supposed to be like a three-day trip ended up being like a 10-day trip. And we were living with them in their house. And um, you know, because because of uh like a lot of geographic distance and not actually spending a lot of time with these these individuals and their family, you know, we we thought we knew kind of who they were. And for two or three days, like the way that they showed up was kind of how we thought that they were. And then for the next seven days, it was exactly how we thought, like, their rhythms and their habits and the the way that they live their life, like it was just a long enough period of time where real hard to continue to fake them. Like they were congruent with with what you thought. Their kids are acting out, and like their kids were really good for a couple days. Now their kids are acting out, and oh look, you show up as parents the way that you show up here, here, here. And it was just amazing how it solidified their relationship. And so we've had that experience. And anytime you have the ability to bring somebody super close into your world for a prolonged period of time, that will make you really nervous, or that will make you wonder, like, I wonder what they're gonna see in me that I don't see. Um, either way, it it can it can be helpful.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, absolutely. Okay, so as we kind of land the plane here, we're with this this idea, this habit of not idea, habit of embodying the values and the critical nature that it plays in the iServe model. We've got some questions for the listeners or watchers or whatever, uh, however you may be consuming this podcast. There's three really good ones, and and there could probably be 10, but we're gonna we're gonna share three here. And these are just for the the listeners to kind of reflect on um the progress, not perfection, that they are making in their leadership journey around embodying the values, right? So I'll I'll share the first one and we'll kind of we'll kind of bounce through these. The first one is you kind of said this. If someone followed me for 30 days, what values would they say I live by?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Not not what would they repeat I say I live by. Maybe it's someone who doesn't know me well, but if they follow me around in every area of life, that's scary, huh? Yeah. Wonder I wonder if I'm in the shower, right? Like, how do I what are what are the values that I actually truly embody in my life over 30 days? Yeah. Just like this, like we were talking about with Bill, right? Now there might be some where I'm in really great alignment, there might be some that um I need some uh correction or corrective behavior in, right? Or activity. So that that's the question that I think our listeners can kind of stew on. If someone followed me around for 30 days, what values would they say I live by?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Uh the second one is where am I asking others to live values that I'm not modeling? This one's tough.

SPEAKER_00

Especially as a parent, right? We talked about that.

SPEAKER_01

Especially as a parent.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you should you should show up this way. Oh, am I showing up that way?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um, and there's an interesting dynamic with this one that creates a tension with vulnerability, and that is, uh, maybe even especially as a parent, I need to continue to move kids towards healthy things and towards healthy, you know, healthy decisions, even if I'm not modeling them right now. Yeah. Right? So, so how do I do that? Do do I do I kind of puff up and pretend like that I am? Or do I have a more open, vulnerable, uh, age-appropriate conversation around here's what I'm working on and here's the vision of the reason that this matters, and I'm gonna hold you accountable because uh I do this uh with with my kids, uh especially my my oldest son with weight. He he's a he's a big kid, he's like 6'2, 6'3, carries his weight well. Um, but he also, uh, when he starts not paying attention to his diet, he starts getting a little bit heavy and he's not as happy because he's just he he loves hiking and doing all these other things. And I have to go back and say, hey buddy, when I was a little older than you, I took my eyes off this and I did it to the extent that it took me 10 or 15 years to correct that decision. Yeah. You're you're down this road for like three weeks now. Yeah, this will take you no time to correct it and continue to put good habits in it. And I have a permission relationship with him to have this conversation, yep, right? But I have to come from a place of I know the opposite side of this, and it's not good. Yeah, it's not pretty.

SPEAKER_00

Well, there's this idea of aspirational values, what we're moving toward, and operational values like like the ones that we're congruent with currently and have been for a long time. Yeah. And I think you just said something there that is so hard and so powerful, which is trying to share what you believe to be an aspirational value. It's aspirational for you, but you're sharing it with someone because you believe it's also important for them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Let's imagine for a second that you're currently you currently haven't solved that in life.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? You said something that really kind of made me think of like, could I go to someone that I lead or my wife or one of my children and say, hey, I see this thing in you that I'm struggling with.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And these are the current consequences that I'm challenged with because of it. Here's what I would want for you, and here's what I'm moving toward. I'm not there yet. Right? Maybe we can go together. Or I at least want you to understand like me living out of integrity around this thing I'm telling you. Maybe it's my health or the way that I'm treating a relationship or whatever it may be, yeah, is actually causing me like painful consequences that I'm working through. Yeah. Right? Like, ooh, that that sounds like vulnerability and authenticity and really hard.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yeah. It's here's what this thing has cost me. And I and and that open, vulnerable conversation. But I think the the best way to tie that together is what you said, and that is um, would you be willing to go with me and go find a who? Like ultimately, this is a who conversation. Like if it's a health, like who's gonna be our nutrition coach? Who are we gonna go to the gym with that's not you or I, because we both suck at this thing, right? Like who's the trainer? Yep. Um, but it's to take that person and say, I struggle with this, and um, and I'm going to take this next step, which is going to be, I'm actually gonna go on this path with you. Because for me to say, hey, I'm struggling with this, like, here's all the consequences, go do differently, then I they can't see it modeled. Yep. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's why if you look like in certain in certain places, like particularly around addiction, the the people that are helping these people move out of addiction are people that are still on the pathway of of having and still moving away from addiction themselves, more often than not.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00

There's a relatability there, there's a vulnerability there, it's authentic. It's like, hey, I'm like you, we can go there together to a better place because there's some legit consequences that we both are or have experienced, yeah. Not not heading that direction, right?

SPEAKER_01

And that that in itself demonstrates a value. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Okay, the third question is what's one Area where alignment would change everything. Or maybe ask differently, what's one area where more alignment would change everything in your leadership journey?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. If there's an area that you continue to say it's an intention, it's an intention, it's an intention, and then the actions don't line up, um, that is over time an issue that's becoming more solidified as out of integrity. Right? So what does it look like to bring that back into alignment? My my cheat code for this would be um it's a hoop. Right? You can try to figure out the system, you try to solve it, and all those things, but the reality is there's somebody out there that has solved this issue, or you can pay to help walk you through this issue. And and alignment over the course of time is is absolutely powerful. Out of alignment over the course of time, it does teach you that being out of alignment's okay, and that that has a way of seeping into other areas.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, love it. I want to remind everybody that embodying the values is the last part of the iServe model. And the iServe model isn't a checklist, it's a it's a way of being. Yeah. They are habits that we can develop, that we can improve upon, that we can use to anchor us in our um not perfectly straight journey of developing our leadership and and serving others.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. We just wanted to this is almost like a flywheel, right? If you continue to grow in all of these different areas, your leadership, your influence uh will continue to grow and grow and grow and get bigger and better. And so we wanted to just uh start out the you know the first several episodes of this podcast by uh deep diving into this. And now that we have this foundation set, we're gonna go into all kinds of other leadership uh topics. Yeah, and I think some of them are gonna be so fun. I think some of them are gonna be really, really tense and like awkward, like just like which I personally I hope happens, right? Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about the real stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Well, if we do if we do a series on the bloopers and blunders of our leadership journey, we'll have like two decades worth of episodes at least.

One Visible Change And Closing

SPEAKER_01

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So kind of as we as we land the plane with this whole this whole series, um, just to kind of take this thing all the way across the closing uh with embodying the values is don't try to fix everything now. Yeah. Right? Just if if this was a heavy episode for you, just breathe. Pick one value or one area to bring into alignment, one behavior that you have that you can act on, and then just make one visible change this week. Right? Just really, really small actions and start working your way towards this.

SPEAKER_00

Love it. All right, folks. Well, thank you again for listening to the Sherpa Leadership Podcast. We hope you found this content valuable. And if you did, remember to subscribe, send it to a fellow leader, uh, and come back for more. You can always find a lot of resources at Sherpa Consultinggroup.com. And remember that leadership is a journey. Every single step you take matters. So keep climbing. We'll see you next time.