27. Inside The Science And Soul Of Superagers with Dr. Angela Roberts

What does it actually look like to age with a sharp, resilient, and deeply connected mind? Dr. Angela Roberts — a dementia researcher leading Canada's first Super Ager cohort joins us to explore what science is learning from people in their 80s and 90s who maintain exceptional cognitive abilities. Rather than focusing on what goes wrong, her team studies what goes right.

About Dr. Angela Roberts Dr. Roberts leads Canada's Super Aging Research Program, part of a North American initiative anchored at the University of Chicago. She is also developing CareFit, a wellness program for dementia caregivers inspired by Super Ager research.

What Is a Super Ager? Someone 80+ whose memory rivals that of people in their 50s and 60s — without being physically exceptional. Their brains simply don't show the expected shrinkage and cortical thinning for their age.

"They're not studying ahead of time. Their brains actually are different."

What Shapes a Super Ager?

• Physical activity — ~40 minutes daily of moderate to vigorous exercise, often hobby-driven
• Sleep quality — consistent, uninterrupted sleep is one of the strongest distinguishing traits
• Depth of social connection — it's not the size of the circle, it's the depth of the relationships
• Intergenerational friendships — exposure to new perspectives keeps Super Agers engaged
• Resilience — defined not by an easy life, but by how they move through hardship

Practical Takeaways Move your body, prioritize sleep, invest in deep relationships, pursue meaningful hobbies, seek intergenerational connection, and cultivate a resilient, positive mindset.

Links & Resources

• Super Aging Research Program — Western University
• CareFit — NeuroConnect, Western Institute for Neuroscience
• Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Podcast Index

Connect with Dr. Angela Roberts on Linked In

Thank you for listening!

Do you have a question or a topic related to "capturing essence for care" that you would like discussed on the podcast?  Text the show using the link above or send Lisa an email:  awestruckaspirations@gmail.com

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Intro and outro music with thanks:  Upbeat and Sweet No Strings by Musictown 

Lisa brings over 25 years of experience working in healthcare settings with older adults. The perspectives shared on this podcast are her own and do not represent the views of any past or current employer. Patient/resident stories are shared only with explicit permission or as anonymized composites for educational purposes.

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Superagers

Lisa 0:04

Welcome to Capturing Essence for Care, where we discuss the importance of incorporating personal life stories into healthcare and share ideas to help you on your journey. I'm your host, Lisa Joworski. Hi everyone. Today I'm looking so forward to chatting with Dr. Angela Roberts, whose work with Super Agers is just so inspiring. A Supe Ager is somebody who's at least 80 years old, and she's brought to mind for me that a lot of research isn't done with people over the age of 80. So the work she's doing is really important. Dr. Angela Roberts has been leading the research team for Canada's first super agers cohort, studying individuals in their 80s, 90s, and beyond who maintain exceptional cognitive abilities. This is changing the way we traditionally see dementia research being studied. This is the part that I love. Rather than focusing on the problem, she's studying what is going right. This is something we need to talk more about, in my opinion. And it's the perfect way to help us learn more about how to capture our essence and the essence of those that we care about. So welcome, Dr. Roberts. And I'm just pleased that you're here and made time to do this with me.

Dr. Angela Roberts 1:22

Thank you, Lisa, for the invitation. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Oh, good. Thank you.

Lisa 1:28

Well, I'm so curious to know more about you, more about what's inspired you in this work. So maybe we can just start there on, I love that you're studying what's going right, and I want to know more about you and what's inspired this work that you're doing.

Rethinking Controls In Dementia Research

Dr. Angela Roberts 1:45

Thanks for that question. For um, I mean, you and I've known each other for a little bit, and we exist in the same circles of care. Uh for me by background, I'm a researcher in dementia and neurodegeneration. So I particularly have an interest in Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's dementia. And we've built uh programs to support families and people living with dementia. But along the way, uh I began to have questions around sometimes what we call the control group or the comparison group. When we're trying to understand what dementia is, we often compare behaviors or um uh you know observations that we have to a group that we assume doesn't have dementia. And that's how we say, oh gosh, this must be what you know, what defines dementia. And over time, whether it was Parkinson's disease or some of the work we were doing in dementia, I had this uh experience where we would go back and revisit some of the folks who had been in our studies years later, and all of a sudden realize that some of the people we were calling controls actually had gone on to develop dementia themselves or Parkinson's disease themselves. And so that really got me questioning and had me thinking about well, what do we call a control? And do we have the right measuring stick and trying to understand what dementia is and how we counter the development of dementia or slow the progression of dementia or understand the features and how to help people and families living with dementia? Are we actually comparing them to people who are in the earliest stages or sometimes what we call the prodromal, the preclinical stages of the disease? And so superagers is really a countering to that research. Uh, and and you know, when the Superaging Research Initiative was first kind of pioneered in the in uh with colleagues of ours in in the US before we brought a Canadian site here, it was this awareness that and a surprise that there were people that we were finding who were 80, 90, and 100 who still had cognitive and memory abilities more like 50 and 60 year olds. And so that got us thinking, oh, maybe these folks actually are better controlled, right? Because they're people who are living into a time period where we were would expect to see age-related changes and memory and language and thinking skills, but we weren't seeing that. And so the Superaging Research Program was really about trying to say what can we understand about neurodegeneration by understanding the opposite end of that spectrum. Again, you you kind of started us off with this instead of just focusing on what's going wrong, if we focus on individuals for whom things are going exceptionally right, then it gives us a chance to understand the biology and the behaviors that might be more informative for us to develop programs and understanding of the biology of and all those things that might be associated with neurodegeneration. So that that was that was the academic inspiration for why we did this. The personal inspiration is I am a child of incredible grandmothers who had incredibly long lives, who who did age very well. Um, and so on one hand, my genes are there. If I'm gonna live to be a hundred, I should probably understand how to do that well. Uh, but on the other, on the other hand, these women were so inspiring uh for me growing up and played such an important role in my growing up that I think I've always been fascinated by trying to reset the narrative and counter the narrative that getting older is a disease, it's a pathology, because in my life I've been surrounded by people who defied that narrative. And so, in addition to the biology and the science, is this incredible socially motivated drive to reset the narrative, to help people who become invisible to be seen, uh, and to make sure that we as a society really continue to benefit from the wisdom and voices of older people in our community. Um, so there's a social and a personal and a biological reason for all of this.

Lisa 6:00

Those are all wonderful reasons, and it makes sense that it's led to this work that you're doing. I it also sounds like you're speaking to stigma when it comes to ageism. Um, I wonder if you could speak a little bit more to that. Is is your work helping to break down these barriers and helping to change the way that we're seeing people as they age and how we're interacting with people who are older, older adults or senior citizens?

The Superager Discovery And Biology

Dr. Angela Roberts 6:34

Uh gosh, I sure hope so. I, you know, I think we often think about this at a micro level, just day-to-day interactions and and the experiences anecdotally that we hear from people. And I also think about this on um a macro level, right? And uh, you know, is society changing around this? And I do think it's a component of this research that is so incredibly important. I mean, understanding clearly the biology is important, right? And a lot of what we're doing is trying to understand that. But the social byproducts of this, the the anti-stigma byproducts of this can't be uh uh you know uh underestimated, right? Um, and I'll I'll give a couple of examples. This week, this CBC just last Saturday uh highlighted the story of one of our research participants who turns 101 tomorrow. So a big shout out to uh to him. But the idea that you know a lead story on the CBC on their online media would be this tremendous individual who's 101 who can talk about his life, his experience of living, and share perhaps wisdom around how to do that with other people his age. But also importantly, for younger people to still see oh my gosh, there's this incredibly vibrant, relevant, forward-thinking person who's talking about a narrative and things that are as important to me uh as my peers are. And so I think that starts to close the gap. The response to that news article uh was, and my team is still taking in over a hundred emails from people, their family members, members of our community uh all across Canada who reached out to say, I saw this story, and you know, I think my mom might be one of these people, or I'm 97, I think I might be a super ager, or a community organization, you know, somewhere out on the West Coast who says, gosh, you know, we've got these groups of people uh, you know, that we think may fall into this group. Um, thanks for sharing a story and elevating that narrative, right? And so when when you have a 97, 100-year-old, and we had several of these this week, reach out to you and say, I see myself in this person, I think I might be a super age, or at least I'm doing really well. Can I get involved? And and when you see that space and you realize this was a voice that otherwise had no place to be seen, perhaps in research, and they're so eager to get involved, you just kind of go, Yeah, we we might be doing something right here. We we might be providing a platform and a voice and highlighting awareness where it matters. Uh, you know, our super aging community here in Canada, and this is also true for our uh other North American sites in the US, uh including our anchoring site at the University of Chicago. Um, we provide a space for people to also make friendships and grow their friendships. Um, we have online meetings with superagers across North America, so they all meet each other. And then locally we hold smaller groups with our Canadian cohort and the friendships that have blossomed from that, people who did not know each other at all, who now have clubs, uh helping one another navigate the transitions in life. Um, and so they become each other's primary supports. Uh, we have super agers who are helping one another decide to sell their home and move into uh more of a community where there's more supports around them.

Lisa 10:20

Oh wow.

Dr. Angela Roberts 10:21

Uh and all of this very organically evolving as people have found each other. So I hope we're providing that community. I hope we are shifting the narrative. Um I hope when people like yourselves or you know, other community groups that would not normally have a lot of stake in aging in Canada or reaching out to us and saying, help us understand more and help us think about how we support others in our community, then I think we're starting to scale that narrative to the right space. So uh the biology is really important to me, but there's a piece of me that that knows that if we can reduce the stigma component, that that may actually be as relevant, if not more important, than understanding the biology.

Lisa 11:08

Yeah, yeah. And having people be able to see something or hear of a story like that where they resonate and think, like, that's me, or I know someone who fits into that category. Like, how empowering is that? And helping people to go, you know, like I identify with being a super ager, like that, I think that's pretty cool. I wonder if you could, just because people might not be so clear, I gave a little brief description and you've helped describe it a little, but tell us more about what a super ager is, like what makes them that way? Who are you looking for in your study?

Dr. Angela Roberts 11:46

Yeah. So there's, you know, there are study programs around the world, right, that are quite interested in this phenomenon of, you know, what we think about as high cognitive resilience in advanced age. That's the science way of saying, you know, people who are still performing really well on cognitive tests as they get older.

Lisa 12:04

Right.

Brain Differences And Memory Tests

Dr. Angela Roberts 12:04

Uh, and and I talked a little bit about this. It's beating the curve, right? It's beating the expectation that as we get older, you know, finding words might be a little bit more difficult. Recalling, uh, focusing on more than one task at a time becomes a bit more difficult. So uh there are different ways that groups around the world define this. Our group, uh, and what has always been the definition for really the last decade of this research has uh really two key criteria. One is age, you have to be at least 80. Um, and the second is cognitive performance on memory task, and particularly memory task for that reflects our ability to take in new information and hold on to that. Uh, and so we think about that as perhaps being, you know, episodic memory. Uh, and so there's two reasons why those criteria are important. Uh, the first is that, as I said, that 80 is kind of this threshold mark where we feel like if people are doing still doing really great at that age, then they're beating a biology or some expected kind of trajectory of what we not necessarily uh uh a precipitous drop-off and decline at that age, but where we start to really see an acceleration of age-related changes. Um, and the second reason we focus on memory and this particular type of memory, and the way we measure it is through a word learning task. So we give people a list of words that they've not been exposed to, and we ask them to uh hold on to those words and remember them at a one-minute delay, a five-minute delay, and a 20-minute delay. And the farthest out delay recall, uh, our superagers are, you know, some of them can remember as many as 10, 12, 14 words when we get out to that point in time out of a list of 16 words that they've had to remember. And that's pretty atypical for someone at the age of 80. But the reason why we focus on that task is because it it that uh task measures the uh relative intactness of a part of the brain that we call the hippocampal structures. And we have, you know, hippocampi or hippocampal structure on the right and left sides of our brain. And we think about that structure as being really, really important for memory. And it's also the structure that we see start to degrade first in the context of dementias like Alzheimer's dementia. So we see really pronounced atrophy or shrinking back of those regions, and that's what is associated with some of the memory impairments and why memory is often a first indicator of some dementias or many dementias. So when we see people over the age of 80 who behaviorally give us an indication of a more intact hippocampal region, right, by behaviour, then we know they really are beating that age uh expected trajectory. So superagers, 80 and older, memory performance, more like people in their 50s and 60s, so many decades younger, um, while they are at least age normal or better on all other measures of cognition, like you know, managing multiple tasks, speeded reaction times, you know, recalling words. Uh so they don't have to be for us physically exceptional, although many of them are doing.

Lisa 15:22

Okay, that was going to be my next question. Yeah.

Speaker 1 15:24

Yeah, not necessarily. Although many of them are doing physically exceptional things. Okay. Uh, and we can talk about that. But our many, you know, we our superagers have arthritis, uh, they have macular degeneration, uh they have some of the other ailments that affect the body as we age, but their brain is not showing those same effects. Uh, and indeed, that's evidence not just in how they perform on testing, but what we actually see in their brain. And we can talk a little bit more about that if if you like, like how their brains are actually different, because it's it's not just a party trick on a test. Their brains actually are different.

Lisa 15:59

They're not studying ahead of time.

Dr. Angela Roberts 16:01

They're not studying ahead of time. It's it's not, they're not just, you know, this isn't this isn't someone who just is really good at memorizing things. Um, their brains actually are different, they they do not atrophy at the same rate uh is what we expect for age. In fact, if we look at the shrinking back patterns or something else we call cortical thinning, when the cortex or the outer surface of the brain starts to get thinner as we get older. When we compare our superagers on their brain scans to people who are more in their 50s and 60s, we actually see no difference, meaning that the atrophy patterns in a 90-year-old look very similar to a 50-year-old. And when you compare a typical 80-year-old, there's lots of difference, lots of shrinking back areas and cortical thinning and that explain why we see some of the slowing in the aging process. So, but we don't see that. Um, and in fact, you know, sometimes when we do brain scans, you'll see pictures and studies, and um, the way we present this shrinking back is you'll see bright red and bright yellow on a on a picture of someone's brain that says, oh, these are all the areas that are shrinking and are different from a typical 50-year-old. For us, we just don't see that at all in the superagers. That difference isn't there. Um, and they actually have an enhancement of a part of their brain where it's actually thicker than what we see in a typical 50-year-old. And that region of the brain, we think might be really important, Lisa, because it's a region of the brain uh called it's in the anterior cingulate cortex, some big, big word that just simply means, you know, a specific structure of the brain.

Speaker 2 17:40

Yeah.

Genes, Risk, And Resilience

Speaker 1 17:41

But this specific region of the brain, it's not just that's thicker there. One of the reasons we think it's thicker is when we look at the brains of our superagers after death, because we do have a brain donation program. Some of that pathology data tells us, or neuropathology data tells us that that region of the brain in superagers actually has a higher density of a very special neuron that we call von economo neurons. Now, why are they special and why do we care? Um they're special, potentially special, and we maybe should care. Um, because that's a neuron that in animals has been linked to social behaviors or pod behaviors, how groups and communities come together to support each other. Uh, it's really interesting because one of the defining traits of super agers is their deep social connections to

Dr. Angela Roberts 18:38

the world around them. So whether or not the biology drives the behavior or this part of the brain is enhanced because their behavior drives the biology, I think that causation relationship we certainly cannot tell from the research that we've done. But it is interesting to think not only do we not see decline, but we do see enhancement in specific regions of the brain that might account for some of what we see in superagers.

Lisa 19:05

Wow. So I want to talk about the socialization, the friendships, and um other defining traits. But I first wanted to ask about if it's genetic. Like, do you notice that superagers are superagers partly because of their genes?

Dr. Angela Roberts 19:22

Mm-hmm. Uh it's a I think this question of genetics is one that, you know, even in the dementia side, we continue to grapple with somewhat. Yeah. Um, and I think the way I tend to phrase this is, you know, genetic genetics may set the stage, but they don't necessarily write the script. And when we have looked at, and this I will say is one of those findings that varies depending on the group, and has, you know, we see different groups around the world have published different results in this space, and whether or not that is a product of where people live, and some of the what we think about as epigenetic factors or environmental and and other uh factors that can act on how the genes express themselves. That may be one reason we see different data across regions. Um, it could also be that whether or not your age criteria 75 versus 80 versus 90, that you know affects how we see these data. But as a general rule, in our cohorts, we have not necessarily seen significant differences in the genetic risk, for example, of Alzheimer's disease. So superagers are as likely and carry a similar distribution of the genes that are suspected to contribute to Alzheimer's disease, uh, both key risk genes as well as what we think about as polyfactorial or polygenetic risk. Um, they they look quite similar to people who are not superagers. Now, you know, part of this, and one thing to remember is what we call controls in this study are people 80 and older who are performing at least as good as their age on all cognitive measures. So our control group is pretty good here. Um they are not necessarily people with dementia, and because they're 80 and they haven't developed dementia yet, there, you know, there's a lower likelihood that that you know could happen. Um, but it is uh we don't necessarily see genetics writing the whole story. Uh it's hard to say genetics never plays a role, um, but at least in our cohorts, it is not the primary driver of that narrative, at least for the data that we have to date.

Daily Routines And Wearable Insights

Lisa 21:35

Okay. Okay. What are you finding the super agers in your study? I don't know. Give us give us the takeaways on what do their day to day activities look like? Like what are the things that are keeping them healthy? What are their daily routines?

Activity, Sleep, And Social Depth

Dr. Angela Roberts 21:52

Yeah, I mean, I'll start that by saying I think the best thing for our health is a super ager a day. Like I'm curious, I'm pretty convinced if you Can engage with the superager every day. You can keep your own doctor away. Um, and and I think they improve my health on a daily basis. My my cognitive health, my emotional health, uh, and by all you know, appearances, I I am lazy compared to them. So I'm pretty sure that it, you know, find your superager today and hang out with them, and they'll do a lot for your quality of life and your health too. But um, you know, the typical path path and pattern that we see for super agers as, you know, and our data bears this out both in self-report and also a unique study that we're running here on the Canadian side, which is using wearable devices to follow people around in their daily lives. We can talk about that as well. Yeah. Um, but one of the kind of consistent traits that we see, whether it's our cohort or cohorts around the world, is that uh this idea that better mental health, resilience, um, as well as uh deep and meaningful social relationships, is a hallmark of aging well, particularly in this 80 and over uh age group. And so, you know, without any doubt, physical health is important. And I can talk to you about, you know, the physical health traits in some of our superagers. But, you know, one of the hypotheses that what if you look at the data collectively, that you can think about exploring is perhaps physical health is more important in our 40s, 50s, and 60s. But as we approach at the seventh and eighth decade, it continues to be important. But what may also become even more important is social engagement and social connection. And when we think about this, it it is not large circles of friends, and I think that's important. People will often say, Well, I'm an introvert, so there's no way I'll be a superager. And I like to say to them, I'm also an introvert, like a true introvert. And uh so if there's no chance for you, there's no chance for me, and I don't believe that for a moment, right? So um what the literature overwhelmingly tells us is it's not the size of the circle, it's the depth of the relationships within that circle. Um, and while the patterns might differ, and there's some research to suggest this might be different for women and for men, um, in general, it's not the size of the circle, it's the depth of the relationship. And I will say that this is where if you ever had the opportunity to join us for a superaging event or you encounter, you have someone in your life who you think is a superager, there's no doubt that when you meet them, there's a specialness, there's an instant connection. These are people who seem to be, if there's a genetics, Lisa, I'm not sure if the Alzheimer's risk genetics fully, but there is an ability to connect deeply with others in a way that is comforting and in a way that is just uh it's a it's a it's a noticeable when you walk into a room, it's noticeable. And I and I think that's why they make friendships with each other. Um, so I think that's one trait that we see. And again, when we put this into the space of mental health, or we put this into the space of resilience, you know, it is unlikely that all these factors are completely dissociated from one another. You know, they probably do feed in and support one another. Um, people will often ask me, they must all be certainly privileged and have had good health care and good lives. And and I, you know, I get that a lot. And when we have stories go live on the CBC and other places, there's always at least one person who says that. Um, and I can appreciate that. Certainly, uh, I will never minimize the fact that having access to resources supports better health. And and we certainly have communities even here in Canada where those resources are not available. One of the fastest growing unhoused communities across Canada are people over the age of 65, in particular women over the age of 65. So we have a real crisis in this space. Right. However, our superagers, I would not necessarily say they've all had fully privileged lives. Um, we have to remember these are generations of people who grew up in World War II. They have known uh poverty, they have known lack of resources, they have known war. Our very immigration patterns in Canada mean that people have often come from war-torn countries and found themselves here aging, but their earlier life exposures uh were full of deprivation and challenges. Our superagers have faced emotional trauma, psychological trauma. So, and and many of them have not always had the resources that they have today, certainly in retirement. And some of them, even today in retirement, don't have those resources. So I would not, yeah, I think it's hard to say they've all lived lives of privilege, but certainly I think what defines us on the Canadian side is at least in older age, they've they've had access to care. And we can talk about whether that care is the right care or not, because I'm not sure it always is. Um, but uh it is not always that they've had a privileged life, they are quite active. And as someone who needs to try to get them to come to appointments for study visits, it's like herding cats. You cannot, you think your schedule's busy, like you have to schedule an appointment in with them six months ahead of time. They are busy, they are engaged, they are active, and that can mean just active with their neighbors, helping their neighbors, right? But they're all going all the time. Um, from a physical activity standpoint, you know, we certainly know from our own data that super agers tend to, even compared to their healthy 80-year-old controls, spend more minutes on a daily basis in moderate to vigorous physical activity. So that's that activity that gets our heart pumping. Um, in fact, uh they spend about 38 minutes to 40 minutes a day in that type of activity, typically, uh kind of the you know, middle of the cohort spends that amount of time. Um, and that's about 20% more, 20, 28% more in that range from what we would see from a typical 80-year-old who's aging in a healthy way, like our control group. So we we do see there's a lot of variability in how active people are, but in general, that trend is higher in super agers.

Lisa 28:44

Is that um like structured physical activity where they're going to the gym or doing classes, or is this regular lifestyle activities where they're washing the dishes, maybe going for a walk with friends? Like, is it how intensive is it, I guess?

Dr. Angela Roberts 29:01

Yeah, it's a great question. So when we say moderate to vigorous physical activity, it's not washing your dishes unless you're really out of shape, right? So it's it's you know, uh, we would think about that as being more light physical activity. So these these would be uh walking, cycling, and we we have super agers who are track athletes, we have super in competitive track athletes uh who but who did not start training until they were in the early 70s. Wow. Uh we we have super agers who hike, and I mean extensive backpack country hiking. Uh we have super agers who are still avid skiers uh and and not the bunny heels. Uh we have superagers who cycle hundreds of kilometers a week. Um, and we have super agers who maybe have more physical mobility challenges, who do what they can in their space. So I you know some of this is organized activity, but a whole lot of it is just hobby and interest and walking and moving and swimming. Um, we've had super agers who are competitive divers, high high platform divers, even at the age of 90.

Lisa 30:10

Wow.

Intergenerational Bonds And Community

Dr. Angela Roberts 30:10

So it is it is a wide variety of activity, but they are all um active and in activities that mean something to them.

Lisa 30:23

Yeah.

Dr. Angela Roberts 30:23

Right. Whether that's you know, gardening, walking, moving, their their sedentary life is not nearly as high as probably most of the rest of us who sit spending time doing podcasts, right? So they they are uh you know, it it uh they they are really uh remarkable in that way. But I would not say it's all classes, and in fact, they you know, some of our superagers they've actually asked us to help develop some specialized classes because they feel like in the younger group they don't quite fit, but some of the classes designed for older adults are also not quite right for them either. Um, and so they, you know, they want the opportunity for classes that are really designed for 80 plus year olds, uh where activity can be approachable, right, in adapted ways.

Lisa 31:10

Yeah, I like that. And I I think there's a space for like what you're saying, I think is not everyone feels like they need to be grouped by age. And I think there's something maybe magical on having friendships of all ages, you know, where 80, 85-year-olds can be friends with six-year-olds and 40-year-olds, right? And 20-year-olds and whatever, but there's different relationships, and I think things that we all bring to the table when there's the intergenerational component as well. Do you find that that's part of the research at all? Like, do people have connections of all ages?

Dr. Angela Roberts 31:47

Or yeah, it's really a great point, Lisa, in terms of how, you know, what defines our passion in life, right? And what defines our connecting with others. And in many ways, the who we hang out with can kind of help guide some of those passions, right? And um, I think certainly, you know, uh, I'm thinking about one of our super agers who lives in Toronto who's taking swimming lessons for the first time, uh, so that she's able to compete in a triathlon, which she was inspired to do by her best friend who's late 30s, right? And she's mid-80s, and she will do it. Like there's there's no doubt she's going to do this. And so we have super agres who certainly have those intergenerational friendships. And I will say the folks in my lab who are all uh embarrassingly much younger than I am. So, you know, graduate students of their, you know, mid-20s, early 20s, they love hanging out with these folks. They're inspired, right? So I think that there's something to the intergenerational space, both in opening up avenues for new activities that might bring passion. Um, but there's also something to be said for the deep connection of someone who's living your experience. And I think that's where you know we talked earlier about the friendships that emerge from this program of research. Um, you know, many of our superagers have lost their peer groups, right? Either those people cannot be as active as they can for a variety of reasons, uh, and or you know, those people have been been lost, right? They're they're, you know, and or community social communities have separated because uh people have chosen to move closer to their children, right? They're original, you know, the community they lived in for many years is now not the community they can call home. Um, and so you know, refinding friendships with people who share a similar life experience, I think has been part of the um part of the strengths of rebolstering. I think uh, you know, as you described it, friendships at all ages and all stages. Um, some of this research has been about rebolstering those friendships that are pure friendships that may have been lost prior to being involved in the research.

Lisa 34:10

Yeah, you bring up a good point. And you and I talked briefly before pressing record about how there are so many relationships in life that there's bound, I think most of us, I forget what there's you know, the four different categories of caregiving. And I would imagine that when you get to the age of 80 plus, that you've likely been in some kind of caregiving role. Does that play a factor in super aging at all? Like how is is that something that you study, or are there other elements that we can kind of touch on based on your research?

Caregiving, Stigma, And CareFit

Dr. Angela Roberts 34:48

Yeah, we, you know, I in this research program, we try, I'm not sure we're always successful, but we do try to capture a range of of people's stories, right? And and what brings them to this space. Um and it's always fascinating to me that no two superagers have the same story, you know, how there are central tenants. Typically, there's a resilient space. Typically, they have faced challenges that they've overcome. Uh, typically they refuse to give up and they have a positive mindset. They see the world through a positive lens. Um, they have been game changers. They have, we have, you know, women in our group who led Canada's women's rights movement. We have, there are trailblazers among these folks, which I think speaks to their passion. Yeah. Right. It speaks to their passions. Um, but I think in this space of the other journeys that many of them have commonly shared, uh, and be that both our women care partners as well, our women's superagers as well as our male superagers, is they've experienced this journey of caregiving. Um and, you know, I'll, you know, sometimes this um program of research gets labeled as painting an unrealistic expectation around how people age, right? That what we're trying to do is say, oh, everybody has to be a superager. No, the program of research is actually about helping people maximize their aging and cognitive aging trajectory, no matter where they find themselves in that space. And so many of our superagers have come to this program of research not because they're trying to say, hey, age like me. Right. Um, although they do have t-shirts that say aging is my superpower. So if you see any of them around town, that's one of ours. But they're here because they've had a family member, a partner, a sibling, a parent, a friend who's experienced dementia or Parkinson's disease or another neurodegenerative process, and they want to reset that narrative. So when we bring our superagers into the program of research, at least here at our Canadian within the Canadian program, uh, we don't just do research on them, so to speak. We do research with them. Uh, and that means often leaning on them uh for ideas. What where have we gone wrong? What have we missed? What factors are we not looking at? You know, help us define the next research questions. And so this space of caregiving actually has been an important one for us. They the our super agers challenged us to understand better why their brain health, their uh resilience in the face of caregiving was different than their, you know, their peers, their friends, their family members that they'd observed have been through a similar journey as themselves, but maybe not fared as well. Um, and so with their inspiration, you know, we're actually working on designing a new dementia caregiver exercise and wellness program called CareFit that's being sponsored by the NeuroConnect program uh through the Western Institute for Neuroscience as a way of bringing together community partners, caregivers living with dementia, both those who have not fared as well in their caregiving journey and those who have done very well, like some of our superagers, to really help us think about shifting the narrative on brain health for dementia carers, ensuring that they have as much of an opportunity as people who aren't in the caregiving space to age well from a cognition and heart health standpoint. Um so we're working with care partners, working with our community partners to really define what are the key components of a wellness, social engagement, physical activity and exercise program inspired by the domains that we've learned about in superaging are important. Uh, but to design a program that works for care partners, that can be sustainable, that can support them both during the caregiving journey, but also after the caregiving journey to ensure that we are reversing some of the risk of stroke and dementia and cardiac disease that we know can plague dementia caregivers.

Lisa 39:29

Wow.

Dr. Angela Roberts 39:30

So, you know, I the super agers are for me, part of the superaging research is about bringing the wisdom of generations to today, amplifying those voices, listening to those voices. Uh, and our care, our, you know, this care fit program as it emerged really was upon that inspiration, right? Because they they've lived through this path, they saw where there was a need, and they challenged us as a group of researchers and scientists to meet that need. And um, and so we're trying. Yeah. Uh we'll see how that goes, but but we are trying, and it's a new study that that we're working on and and have launched. Um, so I think it's much more than just understanding how they got to this space, right? It is about their responsibility to a larger society and their ability to help inform other areas of science. I also think it's much more than just understanding not just how they got here, but how we keep people here.

Lisa 40:36

Yeah.

Aging Well As A Social Imperative

Dr. Angela Roberts 40:37

Uh the eight, ninth, hundredth demographic, right, in this country is the fastest growing age demographic in Canada. You know, the number of people 80 and over is growing at an exponential rate. The number of centenarians in this country is significantly higher by almost half than it was, you know, 10, 20 years ago. Yes. We are living longer. We are living longer as Canadians. Um, this program of research is about helping us to do that well. Um, and the one thing I know, uh, which isn't much, but the one thing I will say I know about super agers. The one thing I know about super agers is, you know, whether it's the care fit idea uh for our dementia carers or forcing us to see the world differently, I cannot imagine my life now in the same way that I could not imagine my life without my grandmothers and they're now gone. But I could not imagine my life today without that wisdom, right? Without being surrounded by that wisdom. Uh, and I think that's true for everyone who comes into contact with them. So when we when we think about not just getting people to this age, but ensuring that everyone who lives to 80, everyone who lives to 90, everyone who lives to 100 has an equal opportunity to health care that the a health system that knows how to work with them, activity programs that provide meaning, cities that are accessible, living environments that help them to thrive. Only when we have achieved that as a society and a healthcare system will we have realized our true potential. Because in doing so, it allows us to continue to benefit from that wisdom, which is not about sympathy or empathy for older adults. We are actually a better society when those voices are here.

Lisa 42:35

Absolutely.

Dr. Angela Roberts 42:36

We're better scientifically, we're better socially, right? Um, so I think we have a moral responsibility as a society uh to ensure that we are all advocating, uh, not just for the youngest voices in our society, but for the oldest voices, because I actually think the distance between those two spaces is pretty short.

Lisa 42:58

Yes.

Dr. Angela Roberts 42:59

You know, I think the wisdom of the ages is much closer to the aspirations of the young.

Lisa 43:04

Yeah.

Dr. Angela Roberts 43:05

And our ability to ensure that our society is bolstered and enriched by having both those voices present at the table. Uh, we we are just a much better society if that's the case.

Lisa 43:16

Yeah, absolutely. And going back to you saying about you doing research not for individuals of a certain age, but with, I think is crucial because we can't like I I think all of our community conversations and collaborations should always have people with lived experience and people who are of all of the ages to to be a voice and to have a to have a platform to be heard and seen, right? Like we can't, and I think we think we do a good job with trying to speak on behalf of the people that aren't there, but people they need to be there, you know, because we're never gonna see it the way that they see it. Because we don't have that mindset because we haven't lived to that age. And we can't, I don't think we can even imagine as much as we try sometimes to see things that the way that they do or step into anybody else's shoes. Yeah.

Dr. Angela Roberts 44:16

That's so true. I think that's so true, Lisa. And and I think really, really well stated, right? Really, really, yeah. I appreciate that perspective.

Lisa 44:24

Yeah. There I I have I can't let it go that I have this little like I had this aha moment years ago where I thought of the word awestruck, but awestruck was literally the AWE was drawing on age, wisdom, and experience. Because like I couldn't geek, I can't let that go where I'm awestruck by and I want people to have that's why this this podcast exists, is because I want to give a platform and give voice to people who might not otherwise have a chance. So that that includes, you know, sure, people like you, but people who are doing the regular daily things that they are super agers. They're they might not be in your study, but you know, they might be people that are in their 30s and 40s, but all the way to whatever age, showing like what can we do well? Like, what do we want to really capture so that like people know what's going right? Like, so people know how if I wanted somebody to know about me, then I would want them to pick up on, you know, personality, sense of humor, like the things that I think are funny or just the regular daily activities, you know, like nothing fancy. There's not there's no magical spark that is happening that makes that person extra special. Like we all have something, it's not just celebrities or famous people that we should be admiring. It's it's everyone, right?

Practical Takeaways For Super Aging

Dr. Angela Roberts 45:50

Yeah, I agree with you. It and by the way, I'm gonna steal age wisdom and experience for All Stark. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'll give you credit, but I'm gonna totally steal it. Um, that may be the next t-shirt with like Lisa underneath it. Um so yeah, I think, I think you're so right. And what really what I was reflecting on as you were sharing your own wisdom and that and and that experience was, you know, being a super ager has a scientific criteria that goes with it. But that doesn't mean we all can't be super aging, right? Right. That we all, no matter where we find ourselves at a stage in life, can't be embracing, you know. Um, Sally Sheavers talks about this a little bit, the kind of Canadian writer and geriatrician, that that, you know, a little bit in the space of we shouldn't be demonizing getting older. Yeah. Right. And and we do it, you know, we turn on the television and we see aging portrayed in one of two ways. This this model of disability, right? Where people are are you know not able to do for themselves, or the kitschy grandma with the funky glasses and the leopard print top is doing you know, uh behavior that she probably doesn't do in real life, right? And and we go, oh, isn't that cute? No, it's not cute, right? It's it's they're stigmatizing aging on either side of that, and and you know, that that kind of representation. But at the end of the day, we can all be super in our aging, right? We can be maximizing who we are at whatever stage we find ourselves, we can be celebrating, not viewing aging as a disease as as many pharmaceutical companies would have us do now, or as many commercial and and advertisers would have us believe. Uh, but we can all celebrate where we are at each stage. We can maximize that stage. And in many ways, what you've just highlighted for me is thinking, gosh, is that really one of the secrets of superaging? Because it's funny, our our 80-year-old superagers will say, There's nothing special about me. Go talk to so-and-so across the room. They're 102. That's really super. And then the 102-year-old will go, Well, there's nothing super about me. Go talk to so-and-so over there. They're 106. That's really super. And and so I'm always struck that this is relative or what if super to them.

Lisa 48:19

And and who's the oldest one?

Dr. Angela Roberts 48:21

Who's the oldest one in the room? Um, and then the you know, the 80-year-olds will often say to me, This is just what it means to be 80 in Canada, folks. Like this is what it this is what we look like today. So you've made me kind of reflect on, so thanks for that reflection. Uh, is one of the secrets to super aging just maximizing where you are at every space and time in life, right? Diving into that, connecting to that, relishing that, yeah, being resilient in the face of that, yeah, and refusing to kind of label, characterize, or put a boundary around that. And I mean, Lisa, you'll be a superager someday, right? That that that's the that's that's the fingers crossed. That's the that's the special sauce, right? Um, but it may be true, right? That may actually be somewhat, somewhat true, because they certainly are resilience, and one of the ways we build resilience is not through fighting adversity, but how we cope with the moments of adversity and and to a certain degree, taking each day by day, aging in a super way, no matter where we find ourselves, or we're aging at 18 or aging at 81. Uh, maybe that's part of the the trick that makes us awestruck.

Lisa 49:39

Oh I love it. I love it.

Dr. Angela Roberts 49:43

It's yeah, it's the next t-shirt. I did do mean that.

Lisa 49:46

I awesome. I'm very awesome. And that's another word I we were just talking about the other day, and uh I was listening to a presentation and she was talking about awesome, how we use that word too loosely, but it is it's like wholesome or fulsome, awesome, you know, really paying attention to being full of awe, right? So, yes, and I I feel that I I really do feel that way. I want to quickly see if I can summarize some takeaways on what is what it is to be a superager. And I love the fact that you said you don't have to be in the study to be a superager. So I think that's important for people to to realize like we don't have to do exactly everything that the people in your study are doing, that super aging, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like um they're resilient, they're compassionate, they're caring, they're kind, they have a positive mindset, they're passionate, and they it's you also mentioned being able to well, I think you mentioned about us being able to reset the narrative, but I'm also guessing that super agers can reset the narrative on some of those low parts in life and how that might affect them, and being able to shift that to do something with that that benefits them in some way.

Dr. Angela Roberts 51:11

Yeah, don't leave out physical activity because it's still important. Right, sorry, moderate to high physical activity, not just washing the dishes, it's not just washing your dishes, right? So this is this is getting out and moving. Yes, this is getting out and doing something. Um, and then good sleep quality. So the other thing that really distinguishes superagers, particularly women super agers, is consistent, high quality sleep with low interruptions, right? And so, you know, working with your doctor, working with the sleep hygiene, uh, working with routines uh to make sure that you're getting good sleep. So sleep matters, uh, activity matters, but man, that passion, zest, connections with others, connections to the world around us is a really important factor.

Closing Reflections And Next Steps

Lisa 51:59

Wow. Well, thank you. And I'm glad you mentioned those things because I think they're ones that we can skip over intentionally, or not intentionally, that we need to we need to remember or agreed. I agree. Well, thank you for this. Is there anything else that you feel like would be important to share before we end the conversation?

Dr. Angela Roberts 52:18

Um, I I would just challenge all of us to look around us and see the amazing older adults living in our space. And again, whether it's someone living with a neurodegenerative condition who is finding themselves in one space in life or it's a super ager, but you know, reminding ourselves about the fulsome of that wisdom and community that it brings, um, and not letting those voices disappear. Uh, providing opportunities to activate those voices, listen, listen to the stories, elevate, uh, engage people in authentic relationships. And I think you might be surprised uh whether it's a measurable superager or just someone who's aging in a super way wherever they find themselves uh at the enrichment that you'll find in your life.

Lisa 53:14

So important. And I think the people who listen to this podcast are people who believe in deep, meaningful conversations and really seeing and hearing people for just exactly who they are and and what they want to share. So thank you for reminding me about that piece.

Dr. Angela Roberts 53:31

All right, and thanks, Lisa, for the conversation and for just all you do to raise that positive mindset in our communities and to bring a community together of compassionate people. You know, those of us in the rest of the world really appreciate what you do. So thanks. Aw, thank you for that. All right, thanks for your time, Lisa. Thank you.

Lisa 53:52

Well, thanks for joining today. I really hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. There was so much more we could have talked about regarding her research. We didn't even get around to discussing how wearable devices are used to follow superagers in their daily lives to track their regular routines. But I think it was clear that superagers are very active. I've heard Dr. Roberts speak in person before, and I remember her saying that some people think that people 80 and over might resist wearing, you know, technology or devices like that and have difficulty putting them on or wearing them effectively, but that's not the case at all. So, to capture our essence for as long as humanly possible, let's strive to be super agers by pursuing hobbies that are meaningful to us, staying physically active, not just doing the dishes, but doing something that causes us to get our heart rate up, and also getting enough sleep and maintaining our high quality social connections. We don't have to have a million connections, just ones that fuel us and that we consider to be meaningful. And that's really it. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I look forward to the next time. Take care.