30. When Distance Gets in the Way: How One Son's Journey Led to a Simple Way to Keep Families Connected

We talk with Bob Millar about the messy reality of long-distance caregiving during dementia, and why communication failures create fear, burnout, and constant second-guessing. We also dig into how a familiar one-touch video “clock” can reduce loneliness, simplify care coordination, and help families stay present when distance and transitions get in the way.

• Bob’s caregiving path through dementia, distance, and constant transitions 
• Why communication breakdown drives caregiver anxiety and emergency decisions 
• Who Bob’s mom is beyond her diagnosis, and why music still connects 
• How Paige works as a one-touch video calling device with a closed circle of care 
• Real stories from families using Paige in long-term care and memory care 
• Using simple routines to reduce distress and support staff and residents 
• The difference between being alone and feeling lonely, and why it matters 
• Caregivers as the only consistent “glue” across the healthcare system 
• Practical advice: breathe, ask for help, find the right resources, protect your time

About Our Guest:

Bob Millar is the co-founder of Paige, a simple video communication platform designed to help families stay connected when traditional technology stops working. His perspective and path today is shaped by firsthand experience caring for his mother from a distance, while balancing a demanding job and caregiving responsibilities at home. During that time, communication broke down quickly and staying connected became unexpectedly difficult.  Bob brings 20+ years of experience across telecom, SaaS, and enterprise sales, with a focus on building teams, growing partnerships, and turning ideas into
real-world solutions. Today, his focus is on reducing caregiver anxiety and
making connection simple again.

Paige Frame:  paigeframe.com

Contact:  info@paigeframe.com

Thank you for listening!

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Intro and outro music with thanks:  Upbeat and Sweet No Strings by Musictown 

Lisa brings over 25 years of experience working in healthcare settings with older adults. The perspectives shared on this podcast are her own and do not represent the views of any past or current employer. Patient/resident stories are shared only with explicit permission or as anonymized composites for educational purposes.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Stories Matter

Lisa 0:04

Welcome to Capturing Essence for Care, where we discuss the importance of incorporating personal life stories into healthcare and share ideas to help you on your journey. I'm your host, Lisa Joworski. Welcome to Capturing Essence for Care, everyone. Today's a different type of conversation and not our typical guest. I think you're going to be excited to meet him as I have been excited to meet him. Bob Millar was introduced to me because it turns out we both care about helping the senior population in particular to stay connected, valued, and have a sense of belonging. Bob is the co-founder of Page, which I've learned is a simple video communication platform designed to help families stay connected when traditional technology stops working. We're going to talk about that a little bit later on. His perspective and path today is shaped by firsthand experience, caring for his mother from a distance while balancing his demanding job and caregiving responsibilities at home. And this is what, if you've listened to other episodes, sometimes I refer to this as the sandwich generation, is you know, it it rings true for me too, Bob. In previous conversations with Bob, he mentioned that sharing his story about caring for his mom can be exhausting and emotional. However, also said that opportunities to do so have been deeply healing. And sharing stories, I think, can be like that. But when we think of things like singing along to a song that resonates with us, or reading a good book, or watching that favorite movie for the third time, it's because they make us feel something. To me, it's it's worth it. Storytelling is how we learn, it's how we process information, it's how we connect and grow. So I'm really thankful, Bob, that you're here with me today to share a little bit of your information and some wisdom that you've learned along the way and some of your caregiving experiences, and of course, also to learn about Paige. So welcome and thank you for sharing with us.

Speaker 4 2:13

Oh, thanks, Lisa, for having me. Pretty excited to have a chat.

Bob’s Caregiving Reality Check

Lisa 2:17

So I'd love to learn a little bit more about you, about your caregiving journey, if we can start there, just so we get to know you a little bit more on what really connected us.

Bob Millar 2:27

For sure. I guess I'll say, first of all, I'm uh uh married to kids. Um and my kids are getting older now, but uh one is on the spectrum, so she's at home with us and and always will be, probably. Um, and you know, my career started sort of AT ⁇ T marketing. Um, I I ran a very large team there, and then I was at BlackBerry, and I had a very large team as well at BlackBerry in the good days when it was a good thing to put on your resume. Um and uh, you know, as as my daughter was growing up, and and certainly there was more care really needed at home, I switched over from you know being more of a uh a senior director role into sales. And it was really to allow myself more freedoms and time to be a caregiver and have some flexibility um as far as timing and and less responsibility in the day-to-day job. So that's been something that I've been doing for a long time. Yeah, as far as you know, what really brought us together was talking about the journey that I had with my mom, um, which was one of dementia. And, you know, she was uh my person. We were really, really tight. Um I do have a brother, uh, but uh, you know, he he was not as involved, um, and often wasn't involved really in in the relationship. That uh really was something that was taken care of my mom. She was alone, she was on social assistance, subsidized housing in uh Hamilton, a bit of a hoarder as well. So, you know, she had she was suffering from a lot of things that were just, you know, whether it be um before we got to dementia, it was certainly um depression, anxiety, those were big things for her. And, you know, I I guess the role or the experience that I had with her at towards her end of her life was really tough one. And the biggest thing that was difficult was communication. As, you know, as things started to fail, it went from just being direct conversations to maybe I'd be getting 10 phone calls inside of an hour to turn something on. Um so there was a lot of those early sort of I'll say panic, you know, just kind of not really concern and confusion and those sorts of things. Um and then she was hospitalized after a fall. And so that really changed the game for her. You know, from me it was okay, mom's okay. Maybe we're seeing some cognition, maybe things are slipping a little bit, but um, she's doing all right. To all of a sudden, you know, I needed to take care of everything. Um it was me making sure I was coordinating things from you know her finances to what was going on in her home and needing to make sure that that was sort of a cleared space to, you know, what's the next step? Where do we go next? Because you know, going home is not something that was possible. She came in had a stint with us for about six months, okay. Um, which was very difficult in my home environment. And so we had to find retirement community for her. And I can't say it was the best place, but it was what was affordable at the time. And so, you know, going through that whole process, uh, again, communication would constantly break down. I would once she was in a retirement community, I wasn't able to connect with her. She had, you know, tablets, cell phones, we tried everything. And not only that, but um as a caregiver, there's a really big challenge with knowing what to do. Right? You get you're you're worried about your parent or whoever it is that you're taking care of. And you know that you need to take the steps and find supports, but at the same time, you feel like you're right in the fire. Like there's it's an emergency. So the emergency response is what do I need to take care of today? What am I gonna do with the two hours that I can afford to do something here? And in a lot of cases, because I wasn't able to communicate with her, the anxiety meant I needed to go and see her physically. Maybe she was fine, maybe she wasn't fine. Um, and so you know, I I'm giving you all that background because it's really where um I've taken my my life and and everything since she passed two years ago on a different journey, which is um to try and support and fix this this gap that I found um going through that process. So, yeah, I guess that's a bit of my backstory. She was in and out of hospitals, she was in and out of retirement community. Um I had to work with uh three different groups underneath the government. So there's a lot of confusion as to you know what was the course of action for her, who I needed to work through to get to the next point, the next support. So, you know, that was a huge um challenge for me was not only being able to communicate with her, but to be able to communicate with the support network that's supposed to be around her as a senior from a caregiver's perspective.

Lisa 7:29

And with all the different places that you'd be communicating, like communication itself, you're right, it can be such a challenge, especially if there's transitions from one place to another, for example.

Bob Millar 7:39

Yes, retirement, home, hospital, your place, you know, and any any extra support people that are helping her along that journey, like how do they stay up to date and informed on you know how to meet her needs and it was very frustrating, I gotta say, just trying to work with the different groups and and you know, I found my way. And probably there was more resources available than I knew. And because you're in that, once you're in it, and um, if you're not necessarily prepared uh, you know, for that emergency situation and you haven't really understood where those resources were in the first place, they're not the first thing you're looking for. Yeah. You're looking in the wrong places. So I think that was really difficult and something that I had to navigate. I think the other thing that was difficult was um as her cognition started to fail, as these things started to move through, we we became even more disconnected because of COVID. So, you know, there were those new boundaries of um can't go to a place, can't be in a place.

Speaker 8:41

Right.

Speaker 4 8:42

Um, you know, that just made things even more difficult from that perspective.

Remembering Mom Beyond The Diagnosis

Lisa 8:46

Yeah, I bet. You said that your mom is your was your person. And so because the show or the podcast is called Capturing Essence for Care, I'm just simply curious to know more about your mom. You know, like who who is she to her to you? Like what was she like? What was your relationship like? If I'm allowed to ask, you know, what tell us a little bit about her personality, you know, what made her her?

Bob Millar 9:15

Uh she was she had like the biggest smile in the world. She was um an unbelievably loving person. Um you know, I guess at the end it was she had she still had a dog, so she always had her dog with her. But she was somebody who was full of life all the time and loved an adventure, loved excitement. Um she was also very musically inclined, which I could talk about because that was a real connection that we had as her cognition started to fail. It was the big one was music. But to the point where you know, she would always be, if if there was any sort of a music going on, she's the person who would start to get the beat and and be effervescent about that. Um her wardrobe was you know almost the size of my house. She had clothes four of everything, all the different colors. And you know, if she went to the zoo, for instance, she'd be wearing giraffe earrings, a printed shirt, you know, it would be she would be wearing all animal gear. So it was she was that kind of a person, very bubbly and and uh always filled a room. Yeah, so she was pretty neat uh from that perspective. And you know, I think the I was very lucky in that I had a great relationship with my mom as a caregiver, because for me it was giving back, you know, it was my turn, right? So she took care of me, she was always there for me, she always supported me um through my journey. And so this was a point where uh I was more than happy, very excited to be her person and be able to navigate these things. So the frustration for me was half because I couldn't, you know, I wanted to make sure she was dignified and there was respect and and and good care for her. Yeah, um, so that was a a big thing for me. But it made it easier because of who she was.

Lisa 11:06

Yeah, I bet. I bet. Especially when you have that close relationship, like you said, you want to do whatever you can to support her. And especially I would imagine it's a it's a whole other stressor when there's a distance between you, right? And in addition to COVID, but there's all these barriers on how you can support her when maybe you couldn't be there physically as much as you wanted to be.

Bob Millar 11:29

It's true. When she had her second hospital visit, they um discharged her and uh I it was against me. I didn't want her to go back to the retirement community because I just felt she wasn't gonna get enough support there. But we have filled hospitals, and so you know, they came up with the discharge and they wanted to get the approval that they could get the right support from the retirement community, who of course was very happy for her to come back because you know that's a bed that's filled. Um and uh it was just an absolute disaster. It was tough to to go through that process. So there was a lot of hours that were issued by um by the government and and they wouldn't show up, you know, we wouldn't get the care. Uh so you know that was really tough part um in in going through that

Introducing Page The Video Clock

Speaker 4 12:18

struggle.

Lisa 12:18

I bet. So then if if we jump ahead, because I'm curious about I think it's helpful to understand how Paige came to be, because that wasn't a tool that you had when your mom was here to support her. So I'm can you share a little bit about what Page is and then kind of help us to bridge when that started in comparison to your mom's journey?

Speaker 4 12:48

Yeah. Page is, as you suggested, it's a one-touch video calling device. And it's designed for anybody who has troubles with technology, really. And that is a large group of people. You know, whether it be not only seniors, but anybody with special needs, it might be people that are just technology adverse, which there are lots of. Um, and they're left at you know they're left behind when we're all dealing with cell phones and we're scanning QR codes and doing all those sorts of things. And so Page was designed for doing one thing and one thing only. It's getting connected with a loved one, with somebody who you're in the care of or that you need to be in touch with. There's one behind me, but I know this is most likely audible. Um Page is an actual piece of hardware. It's uh it's a um looks like a small tablet, and it also is showing first and foremost a clock, one of those large format clocks. People will often often call it a dementia clock. And there's a reason for that. It is so that the user can get familiar and comfortable. And you know, one of the things that happened with my mom when she started to have technology challenges was anytime I put something in front of her, a phone, a computer, a tablet, she would just freeze. And this is what happens when you know, when that becomes an unfamiliar and uncomfortable place, technology ends up being scary. And so one of the challenges that I think happens within that population or or with individuals like that is doesn't matter how easy and simple it is, if if you don't, if you walk into it with absolute fear, it's just not gonna work for you. So a clock is a familiar friendly thing. Um, anyways, you can program pictures of individuals onto that clock, and the individual has page just presses the photograph, and it automatically creates a video call, it opens up a video call with an application of one of the people who is on the on the frame. So if you think about it, you know, the other end, um, you just download an application. Um, it's a closed loop system, so you're only inviting people that are are in the circle of care. There's no spam callers, there's none of that that can happen. Um and then if I want to call you know somebody who has a page device, I have two options. I'm either just calling and it's set to auto-answer. So that means that the page frame just automatically opens up and now you're connected to that person, you're in their room with them. It's rung, it's rung a few times just like a phone, but then it opens up and it's a video screen and you're having a video call with them. Or they actually have to press something to answer it. So you know that's a little more privacy, if you will. Okay. So a great use case would be I my father-in-law, uh, he's late-stage Parkinson's, and so he's on a different journey of his own. Um, but he's really doesn't have any audio audible anymore, so he really can't speak. Um, I call him all the time, I'll page, I page him. And it might be from a fire with a bunch of friends that he knows of mine, and we'll, you know, we'll pass around the phone and and uh Len gets to talk to everybody, or it might be that I'm in the canoe with my dog, and you know, I'm giving him a call and and letting him see the letting him see the lake and be a part of it. And then of course, because it's because he's not audible, I can ask him questions and he can respond with a thumbs up or thumbs down. So he can so we can actually still communicate, even though really his voice is kind of gone.

Lisa 16:27

Right. You're using the body language cues, okay, the nonverbals. Yeah.

Speaker 4 16:32

Right, right. So uh I went around pretty quickly there from what it is to all these great use cases, but uh essentially what it is is it's it's built for purpose, only it's it's like a landline, but now it's a video line, and it's closed to your family or your circle of care. There's no passwords, there's no menus, there's no none of that. It's just a clock, you press a face, and automatically you're having a call with an individual or a family.

Speaker 2 17:01

Okay.

Speaker 4 17:01

Now we've extended it also to help out with um the other part of my challenge with communication, which is the care providers. So there's a console, um, you can do group calls. So, for instance, you might want to have a therapist join you on a call, and you have a call with my mom, and now it's their social workers on the call with us, and we're having a discussion, and I'm included in that. Or you may want to have two family members give mom or dad a call. So you can have some group calling activities there, which is really great. But also, there's an enterprise, so there's a console for you know an organization to be able to manage frames that they have, maybe within their retirement community or their long-term care facility. Um, or even, you know, if it's hospital dispatch or in a hospital environment, it works very well on that in that case as well, so that people can actually communicate. It's just a very point-and-shoot simple device.

Lisa 17:54

So it's very private. So, say, in that the example that you gave where if you had a group call, the other people in the group they can only join if you've been invited. Okay. And no other time.

Speaker 4 18:09

Yeah, so it's that way. Now, what I didn't share with you was kind of how it all came together. I ran into one of my old um uh colleagues from BlackBerry. Okay, and he told me a story of one of uh somebody that he'd been working with who'd built something for his mom to solve the same problems that I was talking about with him. And this was just, we were just getting together in one afternoon. So um I met uh Peter Kirkpatrick, who was the inventor, and um he shared with me what he'd started, and we decided the three of us to go on this journey and build this thing. Um, because it's no matter who I talk to, they knew five people who could use it. And so, you know, we've we've gone through the motions of um getting it out there, developing it. Uh, we've got lots of users now, families who are really engaged with Page, and I talk to them all the time. Yeah, I try and talk to at least four, yeah. I try and talk to three or four users at least uh a week, and the stories are fantastic.

Real World Stories From Page Users

Lisa 19:09

Can you share some of them with us?

Speaker 4 19:11

Sure, absolutely. There are two main flavors, I'll say. One is just um it's it's the loneliness, it's it's connecting people. So, great example. There's a woman um I was speaking to her daughter last week. Um, mom is 102 years old, she's in long-term care, she has 11 siblings.

Speaker 19:33

Wow.

Speaker 4 19:34

There are 45 contacts that have been loaded onto the frame, but you can only put six on the frame at a time. So her daughter flips around who who's on each week.

Speaker 19:45

Okay.

Speaker 4 19:46

So that mom mom can catch up with those five people or six people this week and so on and so forth.

Lisa 19:52

So she can just click on whichever picture that she wants to talk to.

Speaker 4 19:56

They press on the one, they press on the one face, and it my phone will ring, and I answer it just like a call, and it's a video call with with whoever's on the frame. Yeah. But her favorite thing, her mom's favorite thing is that she gets to catch up on the babies and the pets. Ah. So there's there's a there's an amazing uh component of inviting people into your home to to share this experience, and it's really working very well from that perspective. You know, I took another woman and she said, Yeah, talk to my mom this morning, and actually, you know, she she was just raring to give me a call and show me her new hairdo. You know, so that so so that's one side that's really wonderful. The other side is around dementia, Alzheimer's, um uh, you know, people who are who are really having some challenges physically, um, or or into those, into cognition issues. And so for them, it's a lifesaver. Uh I, you know, I talked to one family, uh, one daughter again, who uh has a call with her dad every morning, and it's to set up his day. So previous to Paige, he would have outbursts, he would have failed, he would have a lot of difficult parts of his day. And so abusive to other members in the facility, in addition to the staff. So he was just really difficult to work with. Um, it was he was confused and and anxious and angry. So since Pai, she has a call with him in the morning at about 8:30, and it sets his whole day up. And it has changed the entire building. So, you know, everybody's so much happier. Dad's comfortable, he knows where he is, he knows his surroundings, he's seen his daughter in the morning. And if they ever have an incident or a challenge going on during during the day, they just need to get him back to his room, press the face, the call happens, and they bring him down off the ledge essentially. So it's been a wonderful thing and a big help for them. Um, another use case was again, it's also Alzheimer's, uh, where I was speaking to um Again, another daughter of of of of dad. And dad called at eleven o'clock at night and he was in serious distress, you know, uh shortness of breath. She could see that he'd thrown things all over his room in the memory care ward. And so she was able to contact the nurses station and they went down and checked in on dad and everything was okay. The strange thing was, and this is not what we built it for, but we see an application, was that he was also he was also in possession of, you know, he had the button on his on his arm. So he's got the call button. It's got a nurse call system. And there's also one in the room there. But in his case, and in many cases, it's not the only one that we've heard, that's something that's not reliable. They don't know what to do with it. They don't recognize that this button is something that I'm supposed to push and that's supposed to bring some help. But they do know that clock, because it's familiar, and it gives them a bit of uh what day is it, what time is it, when is it in the day, and oh my gosh, there's my daughter, I'm gonna press her face. So it's something that allows him, you know, it allowed him to press an emergency button when everything else didn't work. So that was, you know, that's really rewarding, and we we hear quite a bit of that that's occurring at this point. So yeah, I I I see those are different, the flavors, you know, we've got all kinds of them. Um we have ones that, you know, maybe it's they were like, you know, one day they're like, get that thing out of my room, and the next day they're like, bring that thing back to my room. So, you know, they just it's it's quite funny to hear some of the stories. And for families, there, you know, a big thing for families is that their parents say we don't need anything new. And so one of the wonderful things is we were hoping that a clock would not be invasive, it wouldn't be something that would be rejected. Um, and then you could work from there. And so that has been the case. We just supply them with the clock and give them direction, just put the clock in to begin with. Yeah. And then they've got a clock, and then you can put your face on there and later at some other point in time. So it's just a really nice, easy way to to bring this new, I'll I'll call it the this really nice security blanket into the room and have it be useful over time.

Lisa 24:10

I love the fact that it's so easy to connect, you know, and I guess I think about the distance piece, not just from family member to family member, but I imagine even rural communities could stay better connected with their family members or you know, caregivers or healthcare supports in general through something like this.

Speaker 4 24:33

Yeah, we we really do hope that we can have the device ubiquitous for a lot of underserved uh communities. Yeah. Places where it is harder to get to. And you know, it's um hey, a remote call is not as good as one in-person.

Lisa 24:47

Right, yeah.

Speaker 4 24:48

It's it just isn't. But when you've got all this time in between and and and support is difficult to get to you, it's it's a great tool for for having that, you know, having that work for you.

Privacy Plus New Health Research

Lisa 25:01

Is there a recording ability on it? Like if people wanted to use this for like recording stories, for example, and recording their voice, can they do that or not? Not yet. Not yet.

Speaker 4 25:13

Not yet. Um, we're trying to keep the privacy really limited to begin with. Okay. This is because you know, we don't keep we're not keeping data, uh, we don't want to store it. Um we have gone and we're actually um so next week there will be an announcement with uh Baycrest's program uh called CABI. Oh, yeah, which is the Center for Asian and Brain, yeah, brain health and innovation. We've been selected as one of their uh programs or startups that they're supporting this year. So that's a really good one. Yeah, and what it is is we're gonna be looking at the audio and video, and while we're not keeping or holding on to the recording, we're running it through an algorithm that will show it'll pick up markers as to where the disease is at today. And we're gonna measure progression over time so that you know caregivers and families have another tool in their toolbox or at least a suggestion of you know what, things are declining. We may need to move to a new level of care. We need to have more care or you know, support in a different way, or be more advised of something like fall prevention. So that's something that we're moving into. Um, we're also looking at a couple of diagnostic products that can do biomarkers over the phone and through video, such as you know, what's your heart rate like?

Speaker 3 26:34

Wow.

Speaker 4 26:35

And and and gets your blood pressure. So there's there's tools that we're going to be adding to the device. But for mom and dad who have it, it's we don't really want to change that. We want to keep it that simple. Um and you know, maybe maybe the market will dictate otherwise, but right now that's what we're banking on. And and you know, we've just had so many people of our users who say, no, no, no, don't let it do anything else. Right.

Lisa 27:01

Just keep it simple.

Speaker 4 27:02

It is the phone. Let's just keep it the phone. You know, that's what it does for you.

Lisa 27:06

So yeah, yeah, I like that. And you mentioned to me the last time we were talking about um, I think you gave an example which I thought it's great because it's not the regular type of story you'd share here, but I think it's it's definitely worth mentioning about uh I think grandchildren are come home after school and that they contact their grandparent and communicate that way when they get home rather than using their phones, right? Something like that.

Speaker 4 27:33

That's great. Yeah, it's the it's the backwards play, which is great. And then so uh this is a good friend of mine. I sent him a device, and so he's got it in his kitchen. His kids are 7 and 11. Um, they don't want to give them phones, they do not want to give them a cell phone or any way to do that. So when they come home from school, they page mom and dad, check in with them, and then as well, the grandparents they call all the time and see how the kids feel. I love it. Um, so it's a bit of the the yeah, it's kind of doing it the other way around. But that's a really important thing that we've lost. Absolutely. You know, we haven't even realized the value of a landline anymore.

Speaker 3 28:11

Yeah.

Speaker 4 28:12

So we're all on cell phones, and so people are have lost that capability. And I think it's I think it's really important to have some sort of a uh a device that is really within a small circle of people, your circle of care or your family, and and you're able to communicate with them effectively, you know, easily, much easier than than and not not have to worry about a spam call being picked up.

Lisa 28:34

So yeah, and I think about even like this might be a little out there, but even at say dinner time, you know, wouldn't it be cool if you just had if you just had it sitting at a place at the table where they were part of the conversation?

Speaker 4 28:48

So we have another, yes, we have a uh a user, he's up in I don't know where he is, I think he's in New Market. Anyways, he um he's got it set up uh across the table. He's now by himself, but it's the original family home. His daughter is in the UK, and so at lunchtime she calls dad, he's having breakfast, and she has breakfast he has breakfast with his daughter every day. And it's just like it's a perfect use case. He actually has it set at the uh family table, the breakfast table in the kitchen, and it's set at her place. So, you know,

Kids Grandparents And Daily Rituals

Speaker 4 29:26

when she's not on the phone, he's got he's got his clock and whatever else, but whenever she wants to call, she pages him and they have breakfast together. And it's just like, oh, that's wow, yeah. That's a pretty good use case.

Lisa 29:36

Yeah.

unknown 29:37

Yeah.

Lisa 29:38

Because one of the one of the largest concerns, I think, especially for the senior population or people living alone, is loneliness. Yeah. And and I know that's different than the social isolation, and you can be alone and not be lonely. But I think worlds get smaller, you know, as as families move away and children grow up and life gets busy and whatever else. But that I think this device helps with reducing loneliness and helps people to feel more connected, which probably is your whole purpose. It is, as well as the communication piece, right? Yeah.

Speaker 4 30:15

I I was talking to someone from Ontario Health just this morning, and um, it was amazing. She was just talking about the number of people, and I can't remember what the stat was, but it's a very high percentage of uh older adults that are coming in now, and really what they're coming in is because they're lonely and isolated. Yeah. And that's why they're coming into the emergency department. So it's not like they have a physical, you know, it is physical, but the physical ailment has manifested itself because they're alone. So it's it's a huge thing. You know, as far as in North America, here's a stat for me 20 million people in North America over the age of 60 have not seen or spoken to a person in a week.

Speaker 30:54

Wow, really?

Speaker 4 30:55

And they are alone at home.

Speaker 30:57

Yep.

Speaker 4 30:57

So it's a big number, it's a big representative factor. We're doing a study or work, hopefully, doing a study. We'll have to still get accepted. But we submitted to do a study um with the uh Sheridan Center for Elder Research and the Ontario Center for Innovation. And so that is actually on loneliness and how we can perhaps um you know take a bit of a bite out of that and make some, you know, make some more connections to folks who are alone and and isolated. Yeah.

Lisa 31:27

Wow. Well, I'm excited about this. I'm excited about the opportunities. And I'm gonna guess that you probably wish that you had this when you were caring for your mom, right?

Speaker 4 31:40

Oh, do I ever yes? But I have seen it in action with my father-in-law, which is wonderful.

Speaker 31:45

Yeah.

Speaker 4 31:46

Um, and actually, uh I had a stint in the hospital about a month and a half ago, and so I had one there with me, which was kind of nice because I could keep in touch with everybody.

Speaker 31:54

Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 4 31:55

Which was good. So so I wasn't expecting to be using it myself, but uh yeah, I I I was fortunate enough to be able to do that.

Speaker 32:02

That's smart. Yeah, that's a great use for it too.

Speaker 4 32:06

Hospice is another area that we're looking at too, and I think it's a very important one for that. Because in a lot of cases, people can't get to an individual when they've come to Palliative. So it's yeah, we're it we're we're hoping that we can really create a good program around that uh for Canadians, because I think that that's a really strong one, um, where it's just it just makes sense. I mean, you know, being able to program folks in and have the family invite who who needs to be there and see their see that person um, you know, in their time.

Lisa 32:37

Yeah. Wow. Well, I want to acknowledge you because I think from doing this podcast so far, it's been just over a year now, I find I am truly inspired by people who have been on some kind of caregiving journey or have lived experience to share. And then they decide to take that, you know, and and do something with it that gives back and contributes to improving, you know, the the way that we can support the people around us, um, both who have dementia but also don't have dementia, right? Like whether we're caregiving or caring for somebody with some kind of a condition. And even if that's loneliness, I think I yeah, I just I'm inspired by how people don't give up and they just continue to move forward and be innovative and come up with ideas and partner with other people with similar shared experiences. So yeah, I just appreciate what you're doing so much.

Speaker 4 33:43

Thank you. And of course, your podcast is a result, direct result of that passion, I guess, and that how you feel about things. So it's pretty amazing. It's thank you for sharing the stories.

Speaker 33:54

Well, thank you.

Speaker 4 33:55

Because they're really important and and there's so much value in it. And this is it, you you definitely feel very alone as a caregiver uh through a lot of that journey, even in your own home. Um, it's it's hard, it's your own experience, and uh it's very personal. But you know, talking to other caregivers who have been through the same thing, oh my gosh, you make friends. It's that it's like, oh yeah, I yep, I remember that. Oh yes, I remember that part too. And and uh so there's some real validation there, and it it does go a long way. So I appreciate that you reached out and and that we're sharing the story today. Hey, listen, I wanted to bring I want to bring up something for you quickly. So you had mentioned music out of the gates, um, right when in the introduction, and I that was just really uh well again on my mom's side, it was just such a powerful vehicle towards the end of her cognition and challenges, and you know, and we she wouldn't remember faces and she wouldn't remember necessarily people, and even my daughter might be confusing to her. All I had to do was start to sing a few bars of a song, and and she would get you know the smile would come back and you'd automatically connect. So it was just it was pretty amazing to see how powerful um music is in that journey for people. So I just thought I'd share that because you you said it, you said it right at the beginning.

Lisa 35:23

So I'm glad you shared that. Yeah, and that was completely coincidence, but I it's one of those pieces, at least from my work and with this population, that it can bring someone alive where you get that window where you're like, there they are, you know, like where you remember the words, and sometimes somebody sitting at a piano, if they had been a skilled piano player, it's amazing that all of a sudden having that familiar instrument in front of them that they can get out a few bars, you know, like it's pretty fantastic. I actually worked in a long-term care home. This is like 30 years ago. Uh, worked in a long-term care home, and there was one resident that um, you know, I I had been told when I was filling in for a maternity leave, like, go and get so-and-so. And if you bring her to the piano, she'll play for the group. And I'm like, really? Like, she didn't talk at all. She said she would laugh, like she'd just go and all had this beautiful smile. But I would bring her to the piano and say, play, and name a song, and she would just play that, like as if she was in a concert, never sang, never said anything, didn't communicate, like, didn't use words at all, just had this laugh. But she played perfectly. And I don't know, that was one of my first experiences that would just made my jaw drop, you know?

Speaker 4 36:49

Like it's amazing.

Lisa 36:50

There are so many remaining skills and strengths that we can't just overlook. That's why it's so important. Like, what else? What do we know about the

Caregivers Are The Only Constant

Lisa 37:00

people that we're working with or that we care about, right?

Speaker 4 37:02

One of the things that's yes, and one of the things that you made me think of just now that's so important for everybody to get understand, and it's a simple concept is that throughout that care journey for uh my mom, you know, as far as us being in Canada and having healthcare, um, there's only really one constant is the caregiver. So she may be in a retirement home and she's in her home and she's here and she's there, and she's gotta go to the hospital and it's come back. The only person that's really can connect all the dots and has the full history of what's going on and what's best for her, and how she can be best be cared for and supported is going to be that caregiver.

Speaker 37:45

Yep.

Speaker 4 37:46

And that's the person we don't pay. That's the person we're not we're not really respecting or taking care of, and they got a job and they got other things going on, but they're the glue. And so it's so critical to, you know, for us, uh, I think as a country to really say, listen, we gotta we gotta do something for this group, because this is the group that's actually gonna make it all. They're the ones that are really keeping things together. And it's it's kind of an unknown, it's like not really understood. But that's sorry, I just thought it it's really important that that's no, it's a really good point. Yeah, and it it is it is for so many. That's you know, the the person at home or the the main caregiver is such an advocate for that for that individual who really needs to be heard, and and it and it's hard to get, yeah, it's hard to become uh to gain advocacy from from from the ministry and from from other providers who who could really use it.

Lisa 38:40

So absolutely. Yeah, they're they're a very crucial part of that care team, right? And I think there's you're right, they're they're not paid, first of all. Um, and then also just having the opportunity to for us to draw on that information to say, you know, who is this person and how can we best support them to share that information. But I think often too that I'm I think that sometimes staff members sometimes are intimidated or don't want to overburden, you know, a family member with by asking questions. So I guess that's the other piece of why these conversations, in my opinion, are so important. Like, how can we make sure that we capture that and so that we all know about this person? And we need, you know, we need family members to share that information, yeah, as well as be the support person, sometimes there in person. But like I just hate thinking about somebody not having anybody to to advocate and to share about who they are if they can't speak up for themselves, you know.

Speaker 4 39:45

So it's hard, yeah.

Lisa 39:47

It brings it back to tools like yours.

Speaker 4 39:49

Thank you. Yeah, I and it really is it's critical to just communication

Advice And Resources For Caregivers

Speaker 4 39:54

so key.

Lisa 39:55

Yeah. My last question for you is if you knew about the programs and services that you know now five years ago, like what can you share with yourself or people in their caregiving journey to support their loved ones? Have you learned of resources and programs?

Speaker 4 40:13

Yeah, well, first probably breathe. I mean, that's that's no, uh, you know, uh there are a lot of organizations and there's a lot of support uh available. Problem is it's very scattered, so it's not it's not centralized, it's hard to find, uh, but it's there. Uh, you know, the big one for me was the Alzheimer's Society and not realizing that that actually was a resource that I should be going to because dementia is really, or Alzheimer's is a form of dementia, and so they support anything in the dementia uh quadrant. And and I didn't even think that that was somewhat where I needed to go because that's not what my mom had. Um, but I sure do now. I sure know now that that's where I need to go. So there are all kinds of different groups that are out there from a support perspective, just need to go look for them, you know, and in and I guess part of it obviously is because I'm in the because I'm in the industry now, so I see it. But it's also become a much bigger message. So, you know, reach out to everywhere you touch and don't be afraid to say that you're a caregiver because there's going to be resources that are available, and people will let you know where they're at. So, you know, if you get a chance to talk to somebody who's in a similar situation or has a parent, just touch base with them. Um, you know, totally connect the dots. In the workplace, it's gonna be something that's going to start to be a major policy matter. It's not gonna be a suggestive benefit, it's gonna be a a mandatory one, I think. I hope. I think that's where we're trying to head to um to support caregivers and give them relief and respite. The other thing that um I I think I've done a pretty good job of, but it was really critical was to have uh extracurricular stuff that's for you.

Speaker 42:00

Yeah.

Speaker 4 42:01

So important. Um because if you're not yeah, if you're not recharging yourself, you you can't you can't be there. It's like the oxygen mask, right? You gotta put yours on first. Yeah. And so um, yeah, I picked up some new hobbies over that five years, and and uh I think they've kept me really, really sane, actually. So so it's important to make sure you're doing something for you and that you've got some of those tasks or those those things and and just fit them in, gotta fit them in somehow.

Lisa 42:29

Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you said that. That's so important. And I think we think all there's no time, I can't do it, but you need to make time, even if it's a few minutes here and there, right? In order to stay well. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 42:41

Absolutely have to, yeah. You know, so and it's for for the interactions with with uh with my mom and and you know, talking to other caregivers, you know, there's the value of communication, um, of sharing music and events or stories or adventures, um, be it in person or remote, is really how they're going to thrive and be happy. And it's just so important. So um I'd add that in too, just to make sure that you can find some fun somewhere along the way.

Lisa 43:16

Absolutely. Thank you, Bob, and thank you so much

How To Try Page And Farewell

Lisa 43:20

for all the work that you're doing with Page. I'm excited to see where it goes next. If people want to reach out to you or find out more, I will add you know your links and everything into our show notes. But is there anything, how can people reach you if you have a certain way that you prefer?

Speaker 4 43:37

Best way is just to hit the website, pageframe.com. There's a contact me request if you want to get me directly. Um, but there's also an opportunity for a free trial on the site. So that's just there and available for you.

Lisa 43:49

That's awesome. Thank you so much for this. It was fun.

Speaker 4 43:52

Thank you so much, Lisa. We'll take care.

Lisa 43:56

Thanks for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, take Take a minute to look at the show notes for resources and links, and be sure to leave me a rating and review. And also you can follow the show so that you get notified of when the next one comes out. And lastly, if you can think of somebody in your life who you think would enjoy this podcast, I hope you share it with them as well so that they can listen in on the conversations and ponder how to capture their own essence. Take care, and I look forward to the next time.