From Comfort Zone to Calling: Faith, Mindset & Courageous Leadership – with John Knowlton

In this episode of Life & Leadership Connected, host David Dahlén D’Cruz sits down with John Knowlton—a bi-vocational entrepreneur, minister, and soon-to-be author of Thinking for Success. Together, they explore what it really takes to move from comfort zone to calling in both life and leadership.

John shares his deeply personal journey across ministry, business, and family life—highlighting powerful lessons on faith-led transitions, mindset renewal, and redefining success through the lens of purpose. With wisdom gained from years as a jail chaplain, business owner, pastor, and C12 chair, John offers grounded insight into how our thinking shapes our outcomes, and why courageous steps often lead to the most meaningful transformation.

Whether you’re navigating a life shift, battling fear, or simply seeking clarity, this conversation is packed with storytelling, spiritual truth, and practical wisdom to help you move forward with courage and conviction.

In this inspiring conversation, John Knowlton joins host David Dahlén D’Cruz to talk about faith-led transitions, leadership, and the mindset shifts that help us step out of our comfort zones and into our calling.

John shares transformational life experiences—from ministry and business to adoption, trauma, and spiritual leadership—and reveals how our thinking patterns, daily habits, and faith commitments can lead to deeper purpose and lasting success.

Topics include:

• Overcoming fear and redefining success
• Moving from trauma to transformation
• The power of storytelling in leadership
• Lessons from business, ministry, and C12 leadership
• How to renew your mind and take courageous steps
• Balancing roles and staying grounded in your purpose

📘 Learn more about John’s upcoming book: Thinking for Success
🌐 Visit: abundantthoughtrevolution.com

👇 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more faith-driven leadership conversations.
🎧 Available on all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

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talked about this motto of thinking better every day. And I'm just so committed to people getting their thinking renewed and changed. And know, the apostle Paul says, don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed. by the renewing of your mind. And Jesus, in his sort of opening statement, says, the kingdom is at hand. Change how you think. Repent. Metanoia is the Greek word there. Change your thinking and believe in this good news. So to close the circle on this question, my faith and my work are all connected. My desire to help people think better came out of those experiences of meeting people with bad thinking and good thinking and connected to Jesus' real purpose message of, change how you think. This is a big question for people and sometimes it takes us a lifetime to discover our purpose. But I'll tell you, there's, we have some clues. We all have some clues to our purpose. And first of all, things that really bother us might be a clue to our purpose. And then things that, that attract us can be clues to our purpose. And so I realized a couple of, I don't know when decades ago that when people had the same sort of behaviors over and over, they're trapped in this self-defeating behavior loops that drives me crazy. And, you know, of course I would talk to people and intervene in their lives and people would come to me for help and things like this. I was initially trying to deal with behaviors, their behavior, their behavior, their behavior. Ultimately, I've realized though, that all of our outcomes are rooted in our behaviors, which are sourced in our thinking. And so it's that, that experience of being frustrated, David, at people being caught in these loops of self-defeating limited lives. yeah. Jesus came that we would have abundant life and it just drives me batty when people are caught in shrunken lives. So that was the clue to my purpose around helping people think better. There could be lots of other reasons that people are stuck, David, but they truly are all rooted in our thinking. And so that's why we need to work on and be cognizant of what am I thinking about? And what are the predominant thoughts in my mind? Because my life tends to move in the direction of my dominant thoughts. So if I don't like the direction or the current status of my life, my contention is we need to change what we're thinking about. Apostle Paul wrote that if there's anything good or true or praiseworthy or honorable or just think on these things, not on the limitations, not on the problems in my life, but what are the positive things that I can replace? my current bad thinking with. And so I encourage people to have to change their default setting. So if my default is limit, I'm poor, nobody likes me, I'm not going to get out of this situation, whatever the limiting thoughts are. Human beings are, as far as we know, the only creatures who have the ability to think about what we're thinking about. And so I just really encourage people to try to be cognizant. What am I thinking about? and then have a default you can go to. And so what is a positive thought or two or three that you can, when you recognize the bad thought, the limiting thought, what can you replace it with? Like automatically. Some people I know have actually carried something around in their pocket, a little card, the laminate it with plastic or something like this, so they can just pull it out and say, I'm a good person. People like me. God is for me. Who could be against me? So I'm not gonna be prescriptive about what the positive thought is, but I suggest that everybody has intentionality to change your default thinking. Hello and warm welcome to the Life and Leadership Connected podcast. I am David Dahlén D'Cruz and I'm so excited you're here today. In this podcast we dive into what really matters. Finding a life's purpose. Discovering a why. and learning how to connect life and leadership in a healthy and sustainable way. What fuels your energy and passion? How do we grow and stay as leaders who make a real difference? inspiration to live with greater purpose and lead with heart. Want to learn more? Visit lifeleadershipconnected.com. I'm your guide and coach, David Dahlén D'Cruz. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to a new episode the podcast, Life and Leadership Connected Podcast, and today I have a guest here whose name is John Knowlton. John Knowlton, welcome to the podcast John. Thank you so much, David. Pleasure to be here. As I usually do, will give a short presentation of who John someone lives at the intersection, so to speak, of faith and leadership, also of transformation. a bivocational entrepreneur and a minister from Kalamazoo, Michigan the United States of America. He has spent over three decades helping people grow, whether through business, ministry, or coaching or crisis care. And he has served as a pastor, a financial advisor, business owner, and even a jail chaplain. And in those roles, meeting people at every stage of life and leadership. John is passionate about one thing, helping people think better every day. And because of that, Success isn't a title or a bank account. It's moving closer to the purpose for which God created you. And he is currently preparing to release his new book with the title "Thinking for Success, 52 Stories That Upgrade Your Thinking to and Relationships." And it's a powerful tool to help people reframe their thinking, grow in clarity. also step into their calling with courage. He's also leading CEOs through a network he called C12. And functions as a pastor Stone Church. And as I said before, he lives in Kalamazoo in Michigan with his wife of over 25 years. have four children together. So is it something I missed, John? Well, it sounded like a lot. So it sounds like I'm busy, but I work hard to not be busy. In other words, trying to strip out the things that really aren't part of my purpose. And so you didn't miss anything. For people in the United States, we pronounce the name of my hometown a little bit differently. Kalamazoo is how we say it. That's okay. Yeah. pointing out that. That's important. Tell us a little bit about yourself? You seem to have had such a rich journey, like business, ministry, leadership. Can you take us back and share what your path has looked like maybe some of the big transitions that shaped you are today. Sure, I know you like these stories of transformation and transition. So I'll just tell a couple of them. I was married before my present marriage. I'm married to Julie now, but before I was married to someone else and I was serving as a pastor full time. And she was really convinced that ministry was bad for our marriage, that it was, you know, that it's easy to put the church first and things like this. Yeah. a common complaint or issue for pastor spouses. And so I stepped back from full-time ministry and I was looking for work. And David, I was applying for all kinds of jobs that should have been available to me, but no doors would open. And finally, my mom sent me a videotape. This is 30 years ago, and it was a videotape, a recruiting videotape from a wealth management company. And that was recruiting people to come check out their career. And so I said, what the heck, I'll apply. And they rejected me. But the process of the application and thinking about, hey, would I like to help people with money? Got me fired up. And so I looked around at the other firms that had presence locally. And I went to a career fair where there's all these recruiters from different companies with one resume. And I gave it to the person at the company that I wanted to work for. And they did hire me. And, and so I told God, I'm I've looked around and people who seem to be making big impact, they stick with things. And so I decided and made a commitment. I'm going to stick with this for no less than five years, even if I hate it. But I want to, I want to be a person who sticks with things. Any case, that first wife left me a few months later anyways. So my job wasn't the whole issue. But that commitment to that job launched me on a career that I sort of stumbled into and turned out to be good at. and which really served to, I helped a lot of people and in return received a lot of financial increase. And so it was a major transition point. I credit the commitment though. Commitment is attractive. People, resources are attracted to commitment. Yeah, wow. Thank you. Do you work like a minister today? I do, yeah, on a volunteer basis. Yeah, so I'm an associate pastor at a church. So can you tell us a little bit about faith led journey into ministry? said you have worked as jail chaplain. And I think said you worked as a rural pastor. now you serve in a urban church. How does that journey look like? I mean, maybe you can share a bit. How did you came into faith? Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I was raised in a church, but I would say that I really made a commitment to God when I was in college as a young man, 17, 18 years old, found a community at my college, a community of Christians who really welcomed me. And we just had a really intense fellowship and a great leader who taught us. gently and appropriately, but really just brought us into a relationship with Jesus. And that experience prompted me to go to seminary after I graduated college. So I work on a professional degree for ministry. But I was always attracted to business as well. And so that's why I've had this bivocational career. Ministry, I was a full-time pastor for a few years, but I've really supported myself and my family through business. But I will tell in college, we did some jail ministry. So we would go into a prison system and lead a worship service or Bible study or something like this. And then when I was in seminary in Chicago, I served as a chaplain at the jail. And so I had this big key about six or eight inches long. And I would walk around the jail and open up the door to a pod and a pod had eight or 10 cells in it. And the, the, the inmates could walk up to a second door, which was bars. And so we could talk through the bars. And if they wanted to, they could request a one-on-one conversation with me outside of their, their cell and While I was in that, that job meeting with all these people, there were, there were two guys whose stories particularly stick with my memory. And the first one was driving big semi tractor trailer trucks on the highway, 50,000 pounds, 25,000 kilograms. And, he was using crack cocaine while driving to, to stay awake so he could drive longer. And, you know, he was arrested for using drugs and for using them on the job, but he could never understand why that was wrong. He was like, I'm just doing this to do my job and I don't understand why this is a problem. Why am I in jail? So he had very selfish thinking. Like he wasn't thinking about other motorists or people who his, his attention might be distracted or what have you. The second person in that jail was what's called a "trustee". And so in a jail or prison, there are a few inmates who are particularly trustworthy and the staff of the jail allow them to come out of their cells and do maintenance or custodial work, clean the trash cans and things like this. And this guy was really had a great personality and seemed energetic. And so I stopped and talked to him and, hey, how come you're in here? And he said, well, I've always wanted to be different. I want to be special. And when I'm on the outside, everybody has a job. So I want to be special. So I don't have a job, but in here, in the jail, nobody has a job and I want to be special. So I, you know, I worked real hard to get the job. So both of these guys had really rotten thinking, right? The first guy, very selfish about he doesn't wasn't thinking about how he might kill other people on the on the road. And the second guy, really selfish thinking where he he has skills and talents, but he didn't want to use them to benefit other people because he wanted to be special. And then I have a third person that I interacted with from Chicago who grew up in a really tough household. Absent father. substance abuse, drug addiction amongst his family members, and his siblings all kind of went down that really bad path as well. But for some reason, this guy had shown some kind of aptitude in school, and he had a teacher that told him he could go to college. And he held on to that and believed it and studied. got good grades, got into college, got into medical school, and became an anesthesiologist. So, his family members were all controlled by drugs. They're addicted to drugs. He, for his job, used drugs. He controlled drugs to benefit other people so that they could have surgeries and other operations. So what's the difference between these three guys from Chicago? Two of them are locked up and one of them is an anesthesiologist. It's all in their thinking. And so David, that's where I've talked about this motto of thinking better every day. And I'm just so committed to people getting their thinking renewed and changed. And know, the apostle Paul says, don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed. by the renewing of your mind. And Jesus, in his sort of opening statement, says, the kingdom is at hand. Change how you think. Repent. Metanoia is the Greek word there. Change your thinking and believe in this good news. So to close the circle on this question, my faith and my work are all connected. My desire to help people think better came out of those experiences of meeting people with bad thinking and good thinking and connected to Jesus' real purpose message of, change how you think. Yeah, You said that every person was created for an incredible purpose. And what was it that helped you discover your own purpose over the years? Was it this or was it something more? Well, This is a big question for people and sometimes it takes us a lifetime to discover our purpose. But I'll tell you, there's, we have some clues. We all have some clues to our purpose. And first of all, things that really bother us might be a clue to our purpose. And then things that, that attract us can be clues to our purpose. And so I realized a couple of, I don't know when decades ago that when people had the same sort of behaviors over and over, they're trapped in this self-defeating behavior loops that drives me crazy. And, you know, of course I would talk to people and intervene in their lives and people would come to me for help and things like this. I was initially trying to deal with behaviors, their behavior, their behavior, their behavior. Ultimately, I've realized though, that all of our outcomes are rooted in our behaviors, which are sourced in our thinking. And so it's that, that experience of being frustrated, David, at people being caught in these loops of self-defeating limited lives. yeah. Jesus came that we would have abundant life and it just drives me batty when people are caught in shrunken lives. So that was the clue to my purpose around helping people think better. Yeah, okay, thank What gives you a life, John? What gives you a life in the work you do today? And how do you stay grounded and energized both pastor and entrepreneur? Yeah, well, I'll tell you the there's a number of things in in my life that give me life and by life, I think of energy and really pull you towards them and what not. And I have to start every day with quiet time. And if you like, we can talk about what do I do? I try to have at least an hour of time when I'm not looking at a phone. I'm not being distracted by social media. and I'm trying to fill my mind with positive things. And I tend to go to scripture and one thing about scripture is it's been around a long time. And we know that for millennia, people have found wisdom and value in these ancient texts. so, whereas, much of the news of the day is ephemeral and it's fast and it's here and it's gone. I want to start my day being rooted in something that has endured for millennia. And so, so that's, that's one thing that gives me life. Second is, is being outdoors. And so we could talk about this more if you like, but in during the COVID pandemic, my family and I, bought a recreational vehicle, a caravan and started to travel around the United States. And I spent my first couple of nights on a big mountain, Mount Rainier in Washington, Washington state. And I said, my gosh, where has this been all my life? Well, it'd been right there and I just hadn't come. And so four years ago, my older kids and wife and I started mountaineering. And so in fact, tomorrow I'm leaving for Oregon and have plans to summit two. snow-glaciated volcanoes and so have integrated that in my 50s from Flatland, Michigan, become, you know, into climbing mountains. So that gives me life a lot as well. Wow, sounds interesting. Amazing. month's for this podcast is about life shifts. And why do think so many people stay stuck in their comfort zones, even though they sense they are called to something bigger, maybe more? People get stuck in comfort zones and they get stuck in discomfort zones. They know their life's not going well, but they can't seem to break out. One of my kids was in high school and he was taking a, like a career training class, a vocational class on construction, how to build houses. And one of the other kids in his class said, Hey, you know what our teacher, high school teacher is rich. And my son was like, I, what do you mean? I don't think he's rich. He's got three quarters of a tank of gasoline in his car. This kid had never seen a full tank of gas. And if you have a full tank of gas, you must be rich. So this kid, for some reason, his family was so poor they couldn't fill up their gas tank. It's not that the school teacher was rich. You don't get rich being a school teacher in the United States, but he had a job. So there was something in this kid's family environment where nobody had a job that would allow them to put $50 worth of gas into a gas tank. So why is that? Well, partly it's our environment. So this kid was growing up. not being aware or not being exposed to the reality that you can fill your gas tank and not have to worry about it. You know, have enough money, have a job that allows you to fill up a gas tank. So that's one is that we just don't seem to get exposure to a different world. And so some people just are limited in their experiences, David. So that's one big one is they're just limited. Secondly, people have trauma. They get hurt. They get physically hurt. They get emotionally damaged. They get the tapes going in their brains that they're not good enough, that they don't deserve it, things like this. so both of those really are rooted in thinking, right? They're limited because they don't have much exposure to other ideas. Then they get these trauma is a real thing where it really can... our ability to break out or to move beyond whatever limitations we experience. And so There could be lots of other reasons that people are stuck, David, but they truly are all rooted in our thinking. And so that's why we need to work on and be cognizant of what am I thinking about? And what are the predominant thoughts in my mind? Because my life tends to move in the direction of my dominant thoughts. So if I don't like the direction or the current status of my life, my contention is we need to change what we're thinking about. Apostle Paul wrote that if there's anything good or true or praiseworthy or honorable or just think on these things, not on the limitations, not on the problems in my life, but what are the positive things that I can replace? my current bad thinking with. And so I encourage people to have to change their default setting. So if my default is limit, I'm poor, nobody likes me, I'm not going to get out of this situation, whatever the limiting thoughts are. Human beings are, as far as we know, the only creatures who have the ability to think about what we're thinking about. And so I just really encourage people to try to be cognizant. What am I thinking about? and then have a default you can go to. And so what is a positive thought or two or three that you can, when you recognize the bad thought, the limiting thought, what can you replace it with? Like automatically. Some people I know have actually carried something around in their pocket, a little card, the laminate it with plastic or something like this, so they can just pull it out and say, I'm a good person. People like me. God is for me. Who could be against me? So I'm not gonna be prescriptive about what the positive thought is, but I suggest that everybody has intentionality to change your default thinking. Thank you. have worked with people in crisis a chaplain as a pastor, advisor. What would you say is a common way limited or fear-based thinking holds people back from their calling? Yeah, well in addition to the work I've done with people in prison and in churches, my wife and I adopted two children who had been in foster care. And as you know, if you are eligible to be adopted, that means something's gone really wrong in your life. Your parents died or couldn't take care of you. There's probably... neglect or abuse or there's just a whole host of bad things that happen to children. And so we've raised a couple of kids with a pretty severe trauma background and trauma history. Your question was what are the common common ways that limited or fear-based thinking holds people back from their calling. Sure. Yeah. So one of the impacts of trauma is that that the trauma produces this response that I need to get from every interaction. I need to figure out how to get safety, protection, resources, provision, because I'm not gonna trust that other people are gonna help me, because the experience is that they're gonna hurt me. And so this is an understandable response. the interacting with the world from that place of scarcity and I better get what I need or I won't be able to survive is actually a very, very limiting approach. Jesus said that the value creation cycle starts with giving. So most people don't say it in quite those words. I know that's unique to me, but is a give and it shall be given to you. Press down, shaking together, overflowing, running over, show them and put into your lap. Trauma causes people to seek to get rather than to give and that approach to interacting with other people leads to scarcity, it leads to lack, it leads to a shrunken life. You know, when we are not connected to, you know, a greater source than ourselves, we tend to see people as objects. And we put them into two categories. So David, if I don't feel like I have sufficient resources, then I'm gonna see you either as an obstacle in my way or a tool to get what I need. And then everything is all transactional and I'm just trying to get stuff from you because I feel I have this need to get or else I won't make it. And so this is a big shift that has to break free from that. We have to get people connected to a true source. I think God is the one who is our protector and our provider and who gives us power, right? And if we can connect people, their spirit, soul and mind. to God, the heavenly source, then they can begin to break free from that thinking. You know what, happens, that kind of thinking can happen to anybody. I was standing in line at a coffee shop not long ago and I realized I always order black drip coffee because it's fast. I like to get my coffee fast. But I was behind. some people, I was in a line and I was behind people who were ordering these very fancy, elaborate drinks that they weren't quite sure what it was called and they were, they were indecisive and, now to as a mitigating factor, I was under caffeinated, but what I, I observed my own thinking and I was thinking these people in front of me need to get their, get their order in and get out of my way. They were obstacles to me getting the coffee that I needed. And then I realized I was perceiving the staff at the coffee shop, the baristas, they were his tools. I wanted them to do my will, do my bidding, get me my coffee. I was slipping into that kind of limited, I need to get my mentality. And I had to repent right then as soon as I recognized, I'm like, wow, that's the wrong way to perceive people. That is not an attitude or a means of thinking that's going to get me. I can't serve people that way and I can't be blessed that way. Wow. And so I decided at that moment I'm changing my default thinking. And so when I realize I'm getting anxious or I'm feeling the pressure or anything like that, hurried or rushed or busy, stopping and changing my thinking to the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want and just go through the 23rd Psalm and that's how I'm changing my default thinking. I'm connected to the source. I have everything I need. I don't need to see these people as objects but they are people who have all the rights I have and all the needs and deserve all the honor. So that's I'm not sure if I've answered your question on the nose or not, but that's how I felt about it. but I'm thinking yes, many people, I mean, it explains how many people react in the world, by learning and upbringing, you learn new ways. And that can be, you can do it because... You a higher purpose, you can be religious or faith in God and so There can be various reasons for that. describe something that's very common, Yeah. a Christian business leader, how do you see faith reshaping the way we think about risk calling and and what really matters in a transition. So you mentioned at the top that I serve as a coach to Christian CEOs and business owners. Yeah. So the, organization that I work with is called C12 and we, we function as a peer advisory group. So 12 business leaders gather together once a month for a day long business retreat. And my job is to facilitate that meeting. And then also to coach them individually periodically throughout the month. We operate on a principle called business as ministry. In other words, helping people to see their business, not just as a financial engine to give money to other ministries, but as a business leader, you've got employees, vendors, customers, suppliers. competitors and the community in which your business operates. And so how can you see all of those people as deserving of your best and worthy of your commitment and really as your primary field of ministry? How would Jesus run this business if he was in your place? And so we really are seeking to be very intentional about integrating the life of faith into the life that we have as a business leader. And so I'm happy to answer more questions about that if you want to probe a little more. Yeah, sure. said the name is C12. What does that stand for? It's Christian 12. It's a group of 12 Christian business leaders. Yeah. The purpose of the group is to help each other work from Christian principles in your businesses, Yeah. So we go through all the great thinking about business that you'd expect in any business group. we're trying to help each other build great businesses for a greater purpose. So we think about sales and marketing, recruiting, HR, employee benefits, balance sheet, sales processes, Operational excellence, all of those things, financial management. But then we have this sort of through line of thinking about how do we run the business? Yeah, good, thank you. Tell me about your leadership, of yourself and others and what life shifts or hard-earned lessons helped shape you as leader today. Yeah, so I almost think this is a trick question because what I've come to learn over the last 30 years is that our leadership style needs to adapt to the person we're leading or to the circumstance in which we're leading. And so if someone says they have a leadership style that is their, that's their style, I'm concerned that 75 % of the time they might be using the wrong leadership style. So sometimes we need to be directive and sometimes we need to empower and sometimes we need to coach and sometimes we need to simply ask questions. If you've got a real high capacity person, you can just ask them a few questions to make sure that they're thinking right about the project and let them run. And so, so I would say my leadership has evolved more and more to be situational and adaptive. The primary tool that I'm using, especially in my current role is asking questions and so I've learned over time to get better at at asking open-ended questions and I'll tell you when I was a young man I was afraid of not knowing things and then worse being exposed as not knowing something it was important for me to be knowledgeable and to be right and Life has taught me beat me down or whatever that I I'm not gonna know everything And I'm not going to be right. And how about we lean into that and just say, you know what, I'm going to ask questions because I don't know things. And then together, as we, as I can ask better and better questions together, we're going to discover the right answer or one of the right answers. I had a professor to tell me "A good answer might last you a week or a month, but a good question can last you a lifetime". And so I've, I've tried. to adapt to that. But I'll tell you, as a leader, if you are the person with all the answers, you're going to get really tired really fast. If all the answers have to come from you, you disempower the people that work for you. And you become the bottleneck. Because the pace of the organization is constrained by your capacity and your throughput. And if 20 people are waiting for, for John to make a decision, wow, that's the 20 people not, not get, make, make the thing shake and move. so, it, it's a common thing. Leaders start out becoming leaders because they have some capacities and they have some strengths and, and, talents, but they, if they want to grow an organization very much, they certainly need to learn to empower the people. in their organization and give them the direction but then freedom to pursue the goals that you've set together. Yeah, thank you. We are going to take a short break here for maybe 20-30 seconds and we'll come back very soon. Hi, thanks for listening. I'm so glad you're here. If this conversation is resonating with you and you started to reflect on your own leadership, your purpose. or how to move forward with more confidence and Then I would love to invite you to take the next step. You can download my free guide, Unlock the Overlocked Path to Fulfillment. No pressure, just a chance to talk about your story and explore what's possible. Hello and welcome back to the Life and Leadership Connected Podcast and today I Knowlton. I will continue John with the next question to you written a book, you writing a book I would say, the title of that book is "Thinking for Success". and it offers 52 short stories to help people reframe their thinking. what kind of shifts are possible when people learn to think differently, would you say? Yeah, well, thank you so much for mentioning the book. Thank goodness it is done. I'm done writing. It's at the publisher. So it'll come out at the end of 2025. And in fact, I'm happy to offer your listeners and viewers a free chapter that they could use and use it in their next staff meeting. And I've got a 90 second video that explains how to use the chapter effectively. But we've been talking about this the whole time really how The wrong thinking, constrained thinking, limits our effectiveness. It prevents us from moving into our place of purpose and might endanger other people even with the, in the case of the truck driver who's using uh drugs to stay awake. And so we're, the book is, is aimed at helping people think better so that they achieve better outcomes and get closer to their place of purpose. Frankly, it came out of the frustration that I had leading people when I realized they were making same errors over and over. so, like I said, initially, I would work on behaviors, but then ultimately realized that the thinking was where the problem really resided. And so I realized that telling a story is more effective than giving people a principle. In other words, when I start to tell a story or any of us start to tell a story, it opens up what I call a story arc and we want to know where does that go. So if I say a Baptist minister and a rabbi walk into a brothel, oh my gosh, what happens? We have to know what happens. Why are they there? Right? So it engages our brains in a deeper level than simply a static principle. And so I would tell a story and then have a moral of the story, a conclusion, and then give it a title. And so once we've talked through the story and worked on the conclusion, now anytime that that story might be helpful, we can just refer to the title. And it became a shorthand for us at work. And it was really effective at helping people break through to better types of thinking. And then I said, you know what, I'm going to forget these because you know, my brain is not perfect. So I started to write them down. And after some years, I had 40 of them. And said, wow, if I had 52, we could use one a week in a staff meeting and why not. So I kept writing them, got to 70 stories, and then asked editors to help me get it down to the best 52. And so that's the book. So is it like stories with a biblical twist or is it like what's the context of the story? Is it like the same things that you have experienced? Yeah, some of the stories are from my experience. are from history. Some are from literature. One of the stories is based on Captain Cook, who was sailing a boat around, discovering the new world and things like that. So yeah, the variety of sources for the stories. And I'm thinking also from Biblical perspective, that's what Jesus did. gave his stories. We are Christians, we are living, know, we've, oh, I remember the story when Jesus, shared, you know, the fish and bread with the people. If you had some exposure to Bible and you know the story behind it, yes, there's shorthand living by principle. So of course that's what Jesus did. yeah, it's really good. Yeah. So I certainly didn't invent the approach. That's for sure. would you say one or two practical mindset shifts that help someone move from fear to faith, from comfort to calling? Wow. So I've already talked about having intentional default setting, changing the default thinking, right? So that's one of the key techniques that I suggest is to change our defaults. Another I've already mentioned as well, which is to intentionally marinate or start our day with quality, ancient wisdom. You know, many people, I'll ask them, talk about your morning routine. So you wake up either naturally or with an alarm, and then what? Well, most people go to the bathroom, but a large percentage of people, David, are actually on a smartphone, even in the bathroom. They're starting the day with whatever news or information or social media or... rage bait or whatever is being pumped into their brains. And so I think that the the way we start our day determines how the day's gonna go. And I so encourage people to spend the first most important part of the day, not with that noise, but with something of high quality that represents where you want your life to go. And for me, that scripture and prayer, being open to what God might say to me about the day or myself or... how I might be able to serve other people. Thinking through the day and praying about, I'm going to be talking with David. God help me to add value to David and his listeners today, et cetera. And now you asked about from fear to faith. And I know what I just described might not come naturally to people. And so I can't recommend highly enough to surround yourself with people. who are a little farther ahead than you. And so I personally have five or six young men that I mentor. We spend time together. I was texting one this morning before we got on this call. Just had his second child and he's kind of wrestling with his career choices and things like this. Find other people who are maybe a little farther along. They're discovering their purpose. Try to listen to them, spend time with them, not just to get from them, see how you could add value to their lives too. And so make this reciprocal cycle and put that into motion for you. Thank you. You have spoken about redefining success as moving toward your God given purpose. What would you say, and what does that journey look like for someone who is just starting out? Yeah, well, I shared a little earlier about our passions. know, the things that really bother us are clues to our purpose and things that we're attracted to can be clues to our purpose. Success has been defined lots of different ways and one that I found disturbing was the successful termination of a process. I guess we use success in the title there, but in any case it involved the end of a process. For example, I'm married to Julie and we want to have a successful marriage. Well, we won't wake up one day and say, you know what? We're done. We did it. We're successful. We don't need to try anymore. That wouldn't work out well. And so I think about success as an asymptote. That's an idea from mathematics or geometry class where a curve continually approaches but never touches a line. And so the process won't end. In other words, we should always be seeking to do more of what we we senses our calling and our purpose and removing things that aren't. It turns out that maintenance around my house isn't my purpose. It sort of irritates me. I get grumpy and it doesn't have anything to do with helping other people think better. And so I hire all that out. I have someone who cuts my grass and someone who fixes things around my house and all that. And you might think I'm lazy. I think it's purposeful. So my purpose is helping people think better every day and fixing the shower doesn't do that. So just a quick example, but it's as a young person, it's a, the, process of trying things on and then pulling away or getting rid of, or letting go of all the things in your calendar that don't give you life or, or align with those things that either irritate you or you're attracted to. I'm thinking of a picture, I'm not sure who said that, if it was Aristotle who said that. How does a sculptor know what to What is his principle for doing that? Anyhow, the sculptor said that I cut away everything that's not a horse. Right. And what's the moral of that is already in this block the sculpture use. And I think it's the same thing with us because you have the belief that what we are supposed to be is already inside of us, how do we become that person? Cut off everything that shouldn't be blocks you there. And I would say that's about working your principles. Because often things that things in your life that blocks us from, we have 24 hours a day. What do we do with those 24 hours? There's always things that comes your way. But if we block away those things that don't bring us in this direction, work on your principles. think that might be something similar that you talked about, that you focus on things that will bring you in the direction and get rid of everything else that don't bring you there. Yeah, that's a beautiful way to say it. Remove everything that's not the horse or the David or whatever it is. for sure. Great, great image. Okay, let me see here. gives you a purpose and meaning in this season of your life, John? What's your deeper why behind everything you have built and shared? Yeah. So I'm in a season where my wife and I are getting ready to be done with the intense part of our parenting journey. So we've been parenting for 28 years and our youngest child will finish his high school next year. so, so together we're, we're being intentional about the next season of life where we're choosing to work together. And so So we're building a company called Abundant Thought Revolution". And that's where you can get the book chapter, by the way. But the Abundant Thought Revolution is our work together on helping men and women to think better every day. And so my wife has all this accumulated experience of raising children and kids with trauma backgrounds. And she's been mentoring moms and women who... face the challenges that are particular to them. And so we're driven by this idea to help people think better because one of our great frustrations is seeing people live lives that are constrained. We know people who struggle to pay rent on their apartment every month. It's like always a struggle. like, gosh, for 20 years, you've been struggling to pay your rent. Come on, can we break free of this? and get a higher quality problem. And so we're really aimed at people who are stuck there or at whatever level. You can be a CEO who, I know a CEO with a thousand employees who still struggles with feelings of self doubt and why would anybody wanna talk to me, these kinds of things. So it doesn't matter your station in life. We always have an opportunity to upgrade our thinking and... ultimately achieve more of what God designed us to do. And so we're building an abundant thought revolution together to help people. And it's really a beautiful thing where we've been, of course, married, but Julie was focused on the kids and their needs. And I was a little more focused on the world and gaining resources for our family. And now we get to do this together. Wow, it's beautiful. would you say is one small courageous step someone can take this week, right now, if they sense God is calling them into something new, but they're afraid to let go of the familiar? What's the first step? Well, if you feel that God is calling you to do something, do it. I would say just do the thing. In other words, God is, if it's God's vision, he will have the provision. other words, know, God is not going to ask you to do something that he's not going to resource. So that's where it's important to be, have a good pattern of conversation. with God to have spiritual habits and spiritual exercises that you regularly engage in so that you can be clear and understand what God might be saying to you. So one of the purposes of reading scripture is that it formats our mind to understand God's general will. So for example, he says, don't murder. So if I get a sense that I should murder someone, Well, that's probably not from God because his general will is, you know, do not murder. But whether I work for this big company or I start a business, that's not in the Bible. And so those kind of particular decisions, so God's specific will, we need to learn how to discern and hear from him on our own. so, so the way you frame the question, if somebody's feeling a calling, If you're clear and that's confirmed in your process with God, boy, just do it. So I'll tell a quick story. When we first got married, my wife and I both had corporate jobs with nice income and benefits. But we decided that I was going to step out of that and go back into building a wealth management practice on my own. No problem. Julie was keeping her nice corporate job with good benefits. Just before I was to leave my job, I'd already given notice. She said, John, think God wants me to leave my nice corporate job and work part-time at our church for almost no money. And I said, wow, I don't know how that would work. And so I prayed about it on a Monday morning and I felt a confirmation from God. And I said, God, I love you, but I want to be sure. So tomorrow on Tuesday, I got the same answer. And I came and told Julie, I don't know how this was going to work, but I think you go ahead and put in your notice. David, 20 minutes later, after I said yes to what she perceived was her calling, 20 minutes later, I got to work and I had a voicemail from an older woman who wanted me to join her practice, be her succession plan, buy out her business and It took care of all of our financial needs. It ultimately was the starting launching point for building a billion dollar wealth management firm. And I was able to retire at age 51. And this is amazing because I said yes to what we sense the calling of God. 20 minutes later, I got this answer that ultimately led to incredible things. So if you're feeling a call from God, if it's his vision, it's going to be his provision. Thank you. Thank you. And you have worked with the leaders across church and business. And what kind of transformation have you seen when someone chooses calling over comfort? Do you have some story there? Well, I just gave you that example in my own life. Let me share another. Greg runs a cleaning company. They clean businesses and schools and offices and things like this. And he always wanted to take good care of his people. but he wasn't sure how. And so in the work that we've done together as a peer group, it came to his attention that you could set up a fund, put money aside that would be available to help your employees if they ran into some kind of trouble, financial trouble. so that's not a high paid job. Cleaning is not a high paid job. And so many of the... Many of the employees are attached to the workforce with a weak bond. In other words, if they get a flat tire or need their car repaired, that can keep them from working and from really from getting through life. What might to some of us be an inconvenience can be a huge issue for them. And so he was inspired to set up this employee assistance fund that, that allows the these low paid workers to access money for emergencies, medical issues, car repairs and things like this. And he's seen attrition or his turnover rate of people leaving his company has gone down from 150 % a year to 75 % a year and has a goal of getting to 50 % a year in an industry where 200 % is normal. And so Incredible transformation in the business and obviously as long as you've got people there you can pour into them you can coach them up you can help them to achieve greater levels of success and income and be promoted and all of that and so there's just all good things have come because of that shift that he made and the recognition he had of a new way that he could care for his employees Great, thank you. I wonder how do you personally balance your leadership roles with family life, spiritual life, if someone navigates both ministry and entrepreneurship as you do? Yeah. Well, I'll tell you balance. We think of balance as this point. In other words, I've just got to find the exact right amount of work and volunteering and time with my family and all of this. But the reality is that balance is not a point. It's a process. Sometimes my family's going to need more. Sometimes work's going to need more. Sometimes I'll be called into some volunteer role. Sometime, whatever. It's just constantly changing. If you think about a tightrope walk, someone who's walking on a tightrope, they have that long pole that they use to balance. And whenever there's a gust of wind or they step a little funny, they use the pole and they move it back and forth. Balance is a process. And so I think we actually, we get in trouble when we think there's a particular point and we're trying to just stay at that point all the time. I think we're more successful at balance when we're, when we just accept the reality that it's going to change from time to time and even from day to day. And sometimes your day will change. You get a phone call and your father or mother needs help or a kid is needs to be dealt with at school or whatever the case might be. We just have to be ready to respond and not let those things get us off track. Sometimes when life happens, we get really upset, people will become really frustrated and things like this. hey, your role as a leader is to respond to what needs to be done. And that means balance is a process and not a point. Thank you, thank you. I'm very thankful that you've been on the podcast, John. are almost finished here questions. I hope you enjoyed this podcast too. I've had a great time and I sure hope it's been a blessing for your listeners and viewers. Thank you, thank you. Dear viewers and listeners, if you'd like to learn more about John Knowlton or get in touch with him, you can find him on Facebook and LinkedIn at the links provided in the description below this video. For more details about his upcoming book, "Thinking for Success", visit AbundantThoughtRevolution.com. AbundantThoughtRevolution.com. There you can also sign up to receive a free download of the first chapter, of the insights John shares in the book. Do you have any final encouragement for someone in the middle a life shift or maybe somebody who's trying to trade comfort for calling? Well, I would just say to keep moving forward. The worst thing you can do if you're in a tough spot is to stay in the tough spot. We've heard this idea that when God closes a door, he opens another one. But one of my bishops says, but it's hell in the hallway. If you're going through hell, keep going. So don't get stuck. Just take the next best step. You can't steer a boat that's not moving. So make some forward motion. And if it's in the wrong direction, then adjust, but keep moving forward. Thank you, thank you John, So listeners and viewers, thank you for that you've been with us today on YouTube or Spotify other listening or watching places. My name is David Dahlén D'Cruz and this is the Life Leadership Connected Podcast. So thank you for being here today and welcome back next time when we release the next episode. Bye bye.