Bridging the Generational Gap: Nikhil Raval on Leading with Emotional Intelligence & Purpose

Welcome to Life & Leadership Connected – where purpose meets growth.
In this episode, I sit down with transformation expert and author Nikhil Raval to explore one of the most important leadership challenges of our time: bridging the generational gap in the workplace.

From Gen Z’s desire for feedback and purpose, to senior leaders adjusting post-COVID mindsets, Nikhil brings clarity, research, and heart to the conversation. We discuss emotional intelligence, cultural context, and how leaders can foster connection, curiosity, and long-term impact across age groups.

Whether you're an emerging leader seeking your voice, or a seasoned professional learning to engage younger teams, this episode offers practical wisdom and purpose-driven insights for navigating today's complex leadership landscape.


In this episode of the Life & Leadership Connected podcast, I speak with Nikhil Raval, author of "Target Gen Z" and his lates book "Generational Fusion" and expert in business transformation and leadership development.

Together, we unpack the real tensions and opportunities that come with today’s multi-generational workplaces — where Gen Z brings new expectations, values, and questions, and older generations are learning to adapt in a post-COVID landscape.

Nikhil offers wise, practical advice on how young professionals can grow in confidence, purpose, and emotional intelligence — and how leaders of all ages can create healthier, more connected teams.

Key takeaways include:
- Why Gen Z is reshaping leadership culture — and how to respond well
- How to use curiosity and self-awareness as leadership superpowers
- The mindset shifts required for legacy leaders to mentor the next generation
- How to build emotional intelligence in a cross-generational workplace
 What purpose looks like in a career today — beyond titles and paychecks

If you're an aspiring leader, coach, or young professional navigating generational differences at work, this conversation will give you the tools and perspective to grow — with purpose.

/David Dahlén D'Cruz

Transcript

0:05

The book was my view to get to understand Gen Z better and of course I wrote it out in 2022 I then launched the podcast just simply because I saw that there was a huge demand and there was a huge curiosity on Generation Z. And therefore every company today, it was grappling with something or the other with that generation. How do you bring them on? How do you hold them on? How do you motivate them? How do you? And so I think I in my podcast learned so many things about that generation. And I think from that was the extension to write more about multi-generation, because I think it wasn't just the Gen Z which were causing or becoming the focal point. It's the boss and their bosses. And how does that hold? You know, multi-gen ecosystem come into play. So that's what is my second book. Honestly, I only say this with lot of humility. I don't know if I'm an expert, but I think I've learned a lot about that generation from the book, from the podcast, and then doing a lot of and talks on the topic. Generation differences have always existed and over time they have always also worked out. Not that, you know, it just kind of goes two different ways. So lot of the parallels of what we see in our personal life also kind of happens in the work.

And I think there are two or three scenarios that are happening David: 1:21

number one You're seeing more generations at the workplace, right? So you're seeing a minimum of three possibly four generations right now. So you're seeing Gen Z's, you're seeing Millennials you're seeing Gen X, and you're seeing possibly Baby Boomers also and you're seeing them simply because boomers are working longer, X's have a 15 year runway at least ahead of them. And so the Millennials and the Gen Z's have at least 20 and then maybe 40 to 50 years respectively, right? So there's lots of sort of a mishmash coming together. And each generation has grown up and seen a different context, right? And I think that is fundamentally the root cause of... how we see things, right, so one generation looked at bosses in a different way, organizations in a different way so the value shaping in each generation have been very So lot of times we don't know what sort of our calling, right? We think that, I should be having a certain profession because it's going to give me more money, more prestige, and so on, right? And it's a process of self-discovery. And as I mentioned in my story, I was a fairly strong finance professional. I worked in Silicon Valley in the US and making good money. I probably would have made much more money on that track, but I think there is almost like for all of us who worked long. There's kind of an existential question that comes like probably for 30s or 40s or whenever they say that 'okay what what more do I do? I mean do I continue to do this will I continue to just you know get that next title that you know and some people are very driven by that and they're happy with it and quite frankly, when it did work in leadership, I wasn't doing it more to it wasn't kind of you know hitting me internally, but it did over a period of time. So when I saw more and more people getting changed in their careers, in their lives, I think there's a sense of satisfaction, there's a sense of joy, there's a sense of accomplishment. And I do believe that at some point in my career, don't know, maybe from now, I don't want to devote as much time as I can in the leadership space and maybe some in spirituality and not so much from a religious perspective, just from perspective to do good even more outside of the workplace, right? How do we help, you know, by doing volunteer work for NGOs and so on. And at the end of the day, it's not the size of the paycheck which always gives you happiness, right? It's the quality of the work. Hello and warm welcome to the Life and Leadership Connected podcast. I am David Dahlén D'Cruz and I'm so excited you're here today. In this podcast we dive into what really matters. Finding your life's purpose. Discovering your 'why'. and learning how to connect life and leadership in a healthy and sustainable way. What fuels your energy and passion? How do we grow and stay as leaders who make a real difference? inspiration to live with greater purpose and lead with heart. Want to learn more? Visit lifeleadershipconnected.com. I'm your guide and coach, David Dahlén D'Cruz. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to a new episode of the podcast Life and Leadership Connected Podcast. And today my special guest is Nikhil Raval. Nikhil Raval. Welcome to the podcast, Nikhil. Thank you David, it's a pleasure to be here. I say right? Is it Nikhil Raval? Yep, you said it right on the mark. Perfect. So as I usually do, listen to some viewers, I will give a short presentation of who Nikhil is. And he's business transformation expert and a TEDx speaker. He's a bestselling author and a podcaster and a leading voice in the fields of leadership, strategy and generational understanding. And Nikhil Raval for his ability to bridge the gap between generations, cultures. and leadership styles in today's evolving workplace. And the author of a book called "Targeting Gen which is a practical guide that helps leaders and organizations connect with the rising generation. And in fact, he just released latest book, is called "Generation Fusion", Generational Fusion. And that's... like a call to harmonize the strengths of all generations, from Boomers to Gen Z, and to build more effective workplaces. Originally, he's from India, and he has spent 15 years living in the United States. including 10 years working in the financial services sector with firms like Charles Schwab, Franklin, Templeton and American Express. a decade as managing director of Duke CE India where he led learning strategies for top tier clients across Asia, Europe and North America. In this company he also served on the company board shaping its global growth strategy. Today, Nikhil works a C-suite leadership facilitator where he helps organizations grow stronger by helping their leaders grow wiser. At the heart of Nikhil's work is a deep conviction, that the learning has the power to elevate the societies it serves. And that organizations have the responsibility to serve not only their stakeholders, but also the world around them. And found something that you said, Nikhil, like this. Here's a quote from you."When we help leaders get better at the job, then we improve their lives. the lives of the people they lead and the society their company serves". And today, Nikhil lives in, India with his wife. He lives in Gujarat in India. And I'm thrilled to have you on the podcast, Nikhil. Thank you David for that very lovely introduction. Yes, I'm very happy to be here and let's have our chat today. Good, Can you tell us a bit, Nikhil, of your story? What led you up to the point where you are today in life? Yeah, so I think as you read through my profile there, I grew up here in Asia, in India, and a very wonderful childhood. And I was very fortunate to be part of the second generation where members of my family moved to the US. for, and there's a large part of my family which is still there, and to get some education there I was working there and then in 2002 for family reasons I wanted to relocate back for my father's health reasons and I also wanted to raise children back in Asia. And so that was the perfect time. And then I never had a force to say that, I will do something in the leadership space or in teaching or consulting. But sometimes life takes you. The more you resist, the life kind of takes you there. And so I said I will do just about anything, but I won't do teaching or training or anything like that. But I had a wonderful opportunity to segway into it through a college and through a very nice educator I met in the US and then that's kind of how it began. And over the years I think I spent many years and my last inning was perhaps the most formidable innings of 12-13 years with the company where we built leadership solutions and I really got to understand leadership from the ringside, met lots of leaders in lots of companies in and around Asia and across the globe and just build a perspective of what does it take to you know, to build leaders, what good leaders do, and also a very good perspective of leadership for self. So I think I learned a lot on myself, about myself in the process. And I think I had done enough by the time 2018 had come. I had a chance to kind of take a much bigger role, but I was already traveling very extensively in the region, so I felt it's a good time to kind of go on my own. do a few things which I always wanted to do so in 2018 I went on my own on to the dark side and then I checked off some of my bucket list like the TED talk the book the podcast another TED talk another book and it's been a wonderful journey and working with different clients working with different industries doing different kinds of work and so let's let's talk more you know as we progress through it so that's kind of my story. Yeah, thank you. Your work is mainly about leadership development and helping bridge generational divides. And I wonder what led you into this focus of your work, Nikhil? Yeah, so excellent, you know, so David in 2018, 2020 when a COVID had just begun, personal practice was growing. There was lots of work that was coming. I did a lot of virtual work after the COVID, of course, but 2020, I lost my father because of aging and health. And so I think the first thing I wanted to do was to write something in his honor, something in honor of my parents. And then I said, okay, well, what can I write? There's so much already written on leadership. There's so much, everyone has a point of view. so therefore I spoke to a few friends I wanted to kind of understand like this mammoth task of writing a book. But I finally thought that, if I were to write something eventually, let's just write on something which is. not so much in demand or could be in demand or could be something which is forthcoming. So there was a lot written about Generation Z which was at the time still in their teens and like late teens. But that generation would be entering the workforce and a lot of the books that were written were sort of in the US in the Western context. So which is good. But I think in the Asian context again there's its own story about you know how how that impacts that generation. So I felt like let's right let's write something and so The book was my view to get to understand Gen Z better and of course I wrote it out in 2022 I then launched the podcast just simply because I saw that there was a huge demand and there was a huge curiosity on Generation Z. And therefore every company today, it was grappling with something or the other with that generation. How do you bring them on? How do you hold them on? How do you motivate them? How do you? And so I think I in my podcast learned so many things about that generation. And I think from that was the extension to write more about multi-generation, because I think it wasn't just the Gen Z which were causing or becoming the focal point. It's the boss and their bosses. And how does that hold? You know, multi-gen ecosystem come into play. So that's what is my second book. Honestly, I only say this with lot of humility. I don't know if I'm an expert, but I think I've learned a lot about that generation from the book, from the podcast, and then doing a lot of and talks on the topic. Wow. So the turning point that sparked your passion for this was and your exposure of... think you said in some other podcast that you had your son and your nephew, you got exposed to them a lot and see what they were doing. um So is that correct? Yeah, absolutely. I think the COVID window was the best window, was also a reason for me to think about that. Okay, before I began writing, I said, okay, what can I write about it? I think we had two Gen Z boys at home, which I was getting to see them so very closely at the time because COVID, were home, they were taking classes from home and everything about them, like, you know, how they were looking at technology and how they were adapting to all the disruption that was happening. And so I said, that if this is what they're gonna go through now, like imagine, you know, and we've just seen that, right? We've seen wars happening and we're seeing AI revolution and we're seeing so much more happening in their short lifetime, the climate crisis. The fake news movement and all of that. So I said that their context is, it is fundamentally very, very different. So I think I was just reading more and it was an inspiration to say that, okay, let's do something to understand more about them as a generation. So that was sort of the motivation. Yeah, good. Thank you. I usually ask four questions to everybody in the podcast. And the first one is about life. So I wonder what gives you life, Nikhil? What gives you life and energy in the work you do today? And how do you stay grounded and focused around that? No, I think the one thing David which has taught me over the years, at least being in the leadership space, is the fact that good leaders, it isn't... as much about them and they're getting the glory and they're shining. It is about how do we help the others who they work with, whether it's the team or their clients or the other stakeholders. I think it requires all of us in that space to get a certain level of experience in life or the maturity or that viewpoint to say that, I think I'm doing much more by helping someone rather than for, you know. making the spotlight on me. I like to say that I wasn't always like that in my younger days. I had a thriving career in finance for a good decade and it was almost about more money and more promotions and more this and more that. But I think the slant of how I saw good leaders and good leadership was all about, it isn't about title, it's about what they do, right? So companies which good leaders, it's what they do. It's for the companies, for the society, it's for the team, it's for the customers. Over a period of time I like to think that that is an osmosis effect. And at the stage in which I am, I do the work that I do to help as many of the clients that I undertake. So it's purely with the mission to say that, I want to do it. Doesn't matter if it's a small client, a large client, high paying client versus someone who's new. How do we help them? And we have that luxury, we have the vantage point of having seen so much. So I believe that the focus is about how shall I help groom. the next set of leaders, whether it's students, whether it's existing leaders, whether it's in the family. And the world today, David, it's it's it's it's becoming such a interesting place with, you know, polarization and wars and, you know, everything going on. And I think media becoming powerful and information becoming so much. You almost wonder what will that next generation kind of have to go through. Right. Imagine 20, 30, 40 years for that generation in in this in this environment, The more we can help create good leaders in every space in the society, I think that's the purpose that we should think about, Yeah, thank you, thank you. In your book, Targeting Gen Z, you talk about the disconnect between leaders and younger generations. What would you say, what's causing this gap? Yeah, excellent. So I think for anyone who experiences this, perhaps one may have experiences as a parent if they have children or nephews or nieces or whatever. Generation differences have always existed and over time they have always also worked out. Not that, you know, it just kind of goes two different ways. So lot of the parallels of what we see in our personal life also kind of happens in the work. number one You're seeing more generations at the workplace, right? So you're seeing a minimum of three possibly four generations right now. So you're seeing Gen Z's, you're seeing Millennials you're seeing Gen X, and you're seeing possibly Baby Boomers also and you're seeing them simply because boomers are working longer, X's have a 15 year runway at least ahead of them. And so the Millennials and the Gen Z's have at least 20 and then maybe 40 to 50 years respectively, right? So there's lots of sort of a mishmash coming together. And each generation has grown up and seen a different context, right? And I think that is fundamentally the root cause of... how we see things, right, so one generation looked at bosses in a different way, organizations in a different way so the value shaping in each generation have been very different. So I talked to this in very detail in my workshops but just to quickly answer your question. The boomer generation for instance values hierarchy and has a respect for hierarchy. So it wasn't about always that 'okay, I want you know that big promotion and then I'm gonna go out'. They just wanted to have good work, respect for a good brand and and and they were happy. I think all of that kind of started changing when you think about X Y and Z, right, and the generation X was the first generation which had to kind of do the work-life balance. They were working for global companies. They had to work longer. They had children they parents, were managing two generations and again I'm giving a very high level kind of a description here it will be very contextual it'll be very contextual in Europe versus America versus Asia versus India versus some other country but on a whole you can think about some of these events and the Millennials and Z's were the two generations which fundamentally saw very different things so the millennial generation started 'accepting' technology, and the Gen Z generation 'expect' technology Right, so accept versis expect, and some of the differences that are cropped up are our day-to-day things like you know the value of you know courier so one generation expects long careers loyalty the other generation says I have to take something now I have to see couriers differently. Maybe if I do two years, I need to move on try do different things. So things like the values, things like preferences for communication. I remember my boss is writing memos and emails and now a generation they're just very happy putting voice notes. They don't even want to write WhatsApp messages. So things like communication differences things like ageism that's coming. Right. So if you're working longer maybe you're getting passed up or promotion because there's a younger person in the system or if you're a younger person they're getting not hired because they feel that they don't have the experience. So some of these scenarios are coming into play. The whole hybrid debate that's happening. Right. Some generations want to work from home and I've seen Gen Z asking for that some generation want to work from the office. So all these are bringing a clash and companies are trying to figure out what's the right blend, what's the right mix and every company has to figure out a formula that works for them, that industry, that clients. And so I would say that there's a variety of things but on a whole things like communication, the hybrid workplace, the values, ageism, all of that is kind of what's fueling some of the differences. Yeah, good. Thank you. Thank you. And I wonder are some of the biggest misconceptions that the the older leaders have about Gen Z and the opposite, what are the misconceptions maybe young leaders have of Sure. So I think let me... You know the whole I have a chapter in the book called stereotypes and metastereotypes and you know and so on. And so when we talk about the word stereotype it is just that right. We have taken one image of one person and make it made it make it across the entire generation right. And it's just not fair right. Yet yet everyone's done that for the boomer generation, for the X, for the Y, for the Z right. So first and foremost you have to make sure that you know put aside the hype of the generational stereotype. Like, let's just look at each individual as an individual, right? So if I'm a boss and I hire Gen Z in my team, I have to just work with him or her as an individual, right? And get to know them. Now, there are certain things, as I mentioned, the context has driven the way in which each generation comes together. I think for the older generation, some of the stereotypes will be things like, okay, they cannot adapt to technology. And I have seen People well in their 60s or even older and so on. They're just as curious about technology. They take it on they are happy to learn right and so so there is again an image that gets created. The stereotype on the younger generation like Gen Z is that okay, they don't have loyalty Right. And again, it's a function of, OK, what environment do I create? What conditions do I create for them? And so I think I can go on. Some of the stereotypes like technologies, the fact that the one generation wants a long career, the Gen Z generation is thinking about maybe at least. 8, 10 different roles if not more in their span of career. So if I'm an HR or if I'm a business person or if I'm a manager, I have to think about that, I cannot expect a young person today to be in that one sales role for the next 20 years. He or she is going to try one to two years and then go laterally, go down, go up. So to me, lot of this can be simplified by just becoming a good people manager. How do we create that connection, how do we create that check-in, how do we create transparency in our communication, more feedback going out, more getting feedback and making sure that we reward as necessary. Yeah, these are some of the stereotypes. Would you like me to go more? I can go, but yeah. fine. That young generations want to stay only a short period of time in a company. Is that good or bad? Or is it, was it like, I guess it's, you know, it's depending on your perspective, but how can companies adjust to that? Because in the companies they want to you know, develop and so on. what you take on that? Yeah, no, that's an excellent point. I think what it means David is that in today's time in age, your day and time where the in the war for talent, the talent seems to have won, right? In the sense that you cannot expect, for instance, I'll give you an example. Like there is a large ERP company which basically wasn't able to attract young gen Z's and so one of the things that they did is that they created a kind of focus group and they said okay what do we do, and so then they decided that the senior leadership of the company will create TikTok videos to to get new gen Z's on board. Now imagine like a person in their 50s now they have to do a two-minute TikTok video and like why you should come work for us or what can they do on a weekend like can they shop here or can they go to this place and so on? So I think companies have to take that extra step to attract talent they have to take that extra step to engage talent and I don't think if you're a manager to say that look I'm gonna have this person for the next 10 years 5 years 20 years right you that window has shrunk and the window has shrunk for the simple reason that careers are becoming more and more skill based, so AI is coming. I cannot say that you, you know, I mean, I give COVID example, right? So if you were a pharmaceutical graduate in 2019 or 2020, you cannot say that I have all the skills because I could make the best vaccine, right? Because you still have to think about who's going to get the vaccine. You have to think about how you're going to price it. You have to think about how you're going to ship it. You have to think about what's the communication strategy. So I think more and more the nature of problems are becoming more complex, and which simply means that the manager needs to learn more. And also the Gen Z which is coming, they need to learn more, which simply means that learning becomes a big DNA of how you can keep talent. And therefore, I say that the more you can work towards identifying some of these things as a manager, the greater the chance that you will have to hold on to talent. Like I always say that don't go by the job description. By the way, the job description says that, you have to do these five things. But if you sense that the person is bored or the person wants more challenging work, you have to figure out ways, like, okay, how can I give them cross-functional assignment and newer roles, more classes. More development, right? And therefore the transdisciplinary need to survive in the workspace is becoming more and more crucial. And therefore the more we can do that, think better for the manager and better for the Gen Z. Wow, thank you. Thank you. Great. Thank you for this. I wonder, because you worked across industries and regions, Nikhil, and in your experience, how does culture influence generation dynamics in leadership? Yeah, culture absolutely has an influence, David. I think we all can think about because it shapes, it's sort of like the iceberg, right? What you see on the top is what happens underneath the iceberg. And so, you know, the way I talk and the way I bring myself and the way I speak, right? So and it's also shaping my view and beliefs. And I just give an example. It's a local example. But like if you look at a country like India, which has very complex demographics. And today, if you pick a young Gen Z in like a big city like Delhi or Mumbai or He or she is like any Gen Z anywhere else. They probably know, you know, the same sitcoms and the food and the brands and everything else. And if you go to the much smaller towns, right, in India, I think the hunger, the aspiration is very different, right? They're much more willing to stay back into a company and try. And, of course, it's like a guy who comes out of a top school, right? They're going to only want to do consulting. Part you want to do, so I think culture does have a say. I think in the Asian context David one of the things that comes culturally is that we and I'm just being very general here, which is that be very cautious in in and heaping praise to the to the employee or to the young person because otherwise it can swell their head to say that you know what?'Every time I do something I'm getting a pat on the back' and then by the time the other the performance or the appraisal conversation comes they feel like 'well you know what you always said I'm good I'm good I'm good, right, like why am I why aren't you giving me that race?' So I think they're a little cautious in it's almost like the parenting methodology or the parenting approach comes at the workplace like you want to you want to acknowledge the good work but you also want to be careful in not not overdoing it. And I think that some of these cultural nuances do come into play, right? And there is a respect for hierarchy, there is a respect for age and so on, right? Which doesn't exist in some countries, and it's not good or bad, it's just how... how one sees that. So I say that for a manager today if he works for a large company like I can think of companies like Unilever and Procter & Gamble in India, which is produced among the most CEOs in this country, they have a very clear mandate, like you will not become a global leader unless you go and manage a team in Europe or in in some other part of the world because you could be good in in one culture, but doesn't mean you're good in other cultures, right and therefore I'd say that culture is important both locally and certainly if we aspire to become a global leader. Yeah, wow. Thank you. I think about your new book, a "Generational Fusion", Nikhil. And I wonder, does that mean? And how does this offer a path forward? Yeah, so the generational fusion and David is simply trying to say that look more generations are coming together and it's like a fusion which means it's sort of like a you know, kind of a cocktail of generations at workplace and again, I just I I think I took that theme and extended from my Gen Z book simply because I more and more I saw when I was doing workshop that it isn't just the Gen Z a lot of the stereotype a lot of the attention that we talk about Gen Z is there. But they were also saying that look there is a two way street like what about my boss or the boss's boss and you know I think I struggle with their thinking like this they don't want to adopt technology or they're know they're happy to come to work but I'm happy to stay at work at home. And so I think the more I saw the more I said about there are three fundamental changes that are happening and I mentioned this in the book: the changing workplace, the changing worker, and the changing work, right, So the changing workplace is nothing but the fact that every company has to decide: Should they do hybrid, should they do full-time remote, should they do full-time office, and there's a big debate about that. What is a good formula, what what would be good and so on right? When we talk about the changing worker, we're talking about the fact that more and more are working longer with right and more and more they have to think about you know, you know be my next runway, right? So a guy who otherwise retired at 65 is likely to work for another year, few years, five years, ten years and so the worker himself is changing, right? Because of what's happening in the world and the work, I say the work itself is changing with the advent of AI and all the technology that's coming so the question about, okay, what I knew ten years ago will still be relevant? And will the client still pay me for that kind of a skill? Will AI take away some of that? Right? So I say that the worker workplace and the work are changing in a big, big way. And therefore, we need to take the time to understand the generation. I basically divide the book in two parts, what I call the pods, the points of differences of the generation, and then I call the pops, the points of parity, which means how do you bridge that? And there I talk about stereotypes, meta-stereotypes, the context of the generation, how can Gen Z work happen, and so on. So that's the theme of the new book. wow. Thank you. Thank you. What are some of the key mindset shifts leaders need to make today in order to build bridges between generations and what could maybe some important gains be from that? Yeah, no, excellent question. think the mindset shifts are, as I say, in one level very simple enough. In other words, I think we need to understand self as part of. leadership which is to say that okay before I start saying you hey there's a problem with my team member or someone else right I think what what practices and what do I bring which I need to reflect more. Many times after 20-30 years even then the leaders are not very self-aware in other words if they have a certain style of you know you know, getting things done, they're just not willing to change or they're not willing to help the feedback. So I think I think the first I would say that the more you can become self aware, the more you can become authentic and humble about your own style. That's the first starting point to say that if if I know who I am in the mirror, let me work on changing some of what I can. And I think the second is just to take the time to understand the person across you. Right. It isn't all the knowledge in the books and everything else that's there on Generation. You can use some of that in the background. But at the end of the day, it's an individual. Can you work very closely with them? Can you just see what can you do to help them succeed? And I think it's a two way street, right? So it's not all on the manager. It's also on the subordinate or on the employee to say, hey, listen, I need to come halfway for my boss as well. Maybe I need to respect his experience. I need to respect his way of planning, the way in which he looks at clients, right? So I think the mindset shifts are be agile in learning, which is to say that if you need to let go of some of what you knew from the past, don't hold on to it. And I think the more you can become aware and agile, those are two very good starting points. Yeah, good. Thank you. Thank you, Nikhil. We are going to take a short break here for 30 seconds and we'll come back very soon. Hi, thanks for listening. I'm so glad you're here. If this conversation is resonating with you and you started to reflect on your own leadership, your purpose, or how to move forward with more confidence and then I would love to invite you to take the next step. You can download my free guide, "Unlock the Overlocked Path to Fulfillment." No pressure, just a chance to talk about your story and explore what's possible. Hello and welcome back to the Life and Leadership Connected Podcast, and today I interview Nikhil Raval. Nikhil Raval. Nikhil, here's another question for you and this is the second question I usually ask to everybody in the podcast and it's about leadership. Tell me about your leadership of yourself and others and what has been some defining challenges or lessons that have shaped your voice as a guide to others today? Sure. Look, I think we all experience... things that kind of shape and define us. And one of the things that we always say to our employees or to our children is what I learned from that good boss versus the bad boss and someone who helped. And the best way to think about this answer, David, is an exercise that I normally help my participants do and I kind of think about that for myself, which is what I call "The River of Life", which means that participants have to think about, okay, which were the pivotal moments in their life from childhood till date. And it could be as a child, as a teenager, in the college, at working and so on, right? And who helped shape that for you? So it could be your brother or your uncle or your... professor or whoever. And then how does it look going forward? In other words, like if you're in your 40s, what do you want to do from the 40 till end of time so that people remember you and people say that, you know what, that person helped me change and he was on my river of life. And so I think if I had to think back just very briefly, very fortunate to have a good childhood, good parenting where, you think sports activities was a big big part of who I was and very fortunate to have kind of traveled and experienced another culture at a young age and someone who took care of me is my uncle and again very someone who was very ambitious very sort of achieved so I think I learned early in the age that okay you know what goes into becoming in high achiever a lot of hard work and you know a lot of dedication and so on, and so that's sort of on the profession side and then but what also learned also was that okay the importance of family so you know how you know, I saw my father for my grandmother and so on, and so I think that became very crucial. But in the working space in the working career I think we all over a period of 25 years we can all think of like good bosses and bad bosses and obviously I want to highlight the good versus the bad but I think one or two of my mentors were super like just super in the sense that they were all always about giving, always about let others shine, always about helping you grow. And I really, in those six, seven years, I never cared to think about what's my next paycheck gonna look like and what is the competition paying. I think it was just about learning and also taking some of their values, which means that help your team succeed. You know, practicing some of that when I was leading teams. So when I started leading teams, I thought that that is a good way of I can build my legacy. And we had a company where we had about, I don't know, 12 years and almost that original team was with us for the full 12 years, which means that I wanted to do everything I could to keep them, make them, keep them happy, give them good work, and so on. And yeah, the other is also to make sure that to make sure that don't get caught up so much just in your professional achievements. I think life is much bigger than, you know, a title or a bank balance, right? And life can really test you in so many different ways. And so I think one of things that I learned also is that just when you think that you have everything or you're on that ladder going to the next promotion and the next IPO or the next thing, it can all come down crashing. And so I think that was a lesson I learned, lost my mom in a car accident. And I also said that, it's just time for me to reflect. I think the one advice I would give to everybody, and I've seen this very closely, David, with so many of my clients in programs where they have such a strong ambition. And I don't want to tame down someone's ambition. But your definition of a good leader is not defined by a company's title. The definition of a good leader is also of your children respecting you. your spouse respecting you, your parents respecting you and so on. And so I always say that take a big picture view of the leadership. You could be respected in one place, but if you're not respected as someone else, it's time for you to reflect and say that, OK, what else can I do? Yeah, good. Yeah, thank you. in one of your talks, Nikhil, that you said there are three things that are very important, especially for young leaders today. And that was, you said like this, understanding others, understanding yourself, and build the muscle of curiosity. Can you develop a little bit about that? Sure, so this was my TED talk I had to give for young Gen Z's and it was really them trying to look at careers. They were at the cusp of like, okay, what comes next in that career? And I said that, don't worry too much about if you're not clear, if you're gonna be a doctor versus an engineer versus something else. I think in today's time, you you're unlikely to have one, you may have studied one thing, but very unlikely that you if you've studied engineering that you'll remain an engineer for the next 40 years. So I said that, you know, don't take too much pressure. Of course, it's hard for them because they're in that age and in that space and they don't they have parents and the peer pressure and all that. But I think I said what will make you successful and if you can start thinking about this skill is that the more you can know yourself. And I put that to my own son to say that, you know, he's journaling and If he has a bad day and if he feels that he should have not shouted or he should have done, I think self-awareness is a big, thing for all of us. So the sooner we can start or sooner we can help Gen Z, sooner we can help our children do that, that's the number one thing. So self-awareness. Second, take the time to also understand others. In a time where so much is being talked about on media, about, you know, this is happening and that's happening and that country is like this and that religion is like that, I think we need to just do our homework, do the critical thinking, be in the moment to say that, OK, let me pause before I can jump to some conclusion. So that's that. And the third is curiosity is simply which is saying that so much of what we lose out in life is curiosity and curiosity, not just in the workplace. You definitely need to be curious because more technology, more new things are coming, but even just in life, because it shouldn't be confined to curiosity at workplace, be curious about what else can you do in life. And just that as a message is something important for everybody. Great, thank you. If a leader wants to start creating generational understanding on their team, where should they begin? So as I say, think if you are just starting your career, right, you're what we call the individual contributor, which means that... you're largely taking tasks you're executing. I always want advice that I have for younger people getting into workforce is to be very, very choosy or careful about if given a chance, take a company with good culture versus something who pays you more a higher paycheck. In other words, it is very easy to learn all the bad habits at a young age in your career. Right. So if you see and have a bad boss, then that's the behavior you start putting on yourself, thinking that that is good leadership. And therefore, I always say that, you know, as much as you can do the homework of the brand of the company, the culture of the company, and the more you can do that, because it is very important for you to get some of that for you early in the life. And therefore, that's the first thing and self-awareness. And it's a journey. Many of the leaders who be in a culture or in an ecosystem where they are rewarded for bad culture. Again, that's just it reinforces that. So if you can do the favor and do the homework of joining a company with good culture, with less money, but eventually like you can pick up the good habits, then in the longer run, you seem to have will have benefit. And therefore the advice is do the homework to the extent that you can, to see if you can start a career and have a you know a good mentor, a good boss, build relationship with people who can kind of open up and help you, and be agile, right. Nothing today is static, everything that we know, and you know, listen and learn is is fluid so be very uh You also speak about emotional intelligence and culture humility. do these play into generational leadership? Yeah, I think the EQ, David, is something that as leadership practitioners, we can agree that it's such a core part of who defines who can we become. Right. So in other words, if you are a very smart leader with high IQ, but very bad EQ. You have a chance of losing good people. You have a chance of not building relationships. You have a chance of customers not coming to you, right? So I think there's overwhelming evidence about the fact that how many people get promoted after a certain time in their career simply because of the fact that they were able to manage their emotions. They know what to say, when to say it, be very empathetic to people and so on. And therefore, I do think EQ is extremely important, but again, it is easier. said than done. For most of us in this space we know what it means, we know the importance of it but becoming more and better with EQ requires practice. It is like a muscle right? So the more we can be open to feedback the more we can open and solicit advice from others to say hey. you know, did I kind of overdo this? Was I harsh on my team? Should I have... And it also means sometimes like actually, you know, having the courage to give a negative feedback. So the good news about EQ is the more we live, the more experiences we have, and therefore it gives us more instances to say that, I have learned from all these experiences of my life and therefore I need to build it. But... Simple as reading a book, simple as taking an instrument, simple as getting feedback. I think if you can just do some of those things, you become aware and then just take the time to become better at it with time. have any practical example? work as a consultant also. You visit companies and so on. to company where there is an issue with the EQ, a bad relationship between colleagues, what advice would you give them start that journey? Yeah, no excellent. think what happens is a lot of times, David, what happens is simply the lack of awareness, right? So I remember for a client, David, we used to do a play where... It's just a it's kind of a mock play where there's a boss and there is a subordinate and you know the boss keeps calling and he hires a young engineer, but he every time he calls him in his office he's giving him feedback. Oh, you weren't good at this and you weren't good at that and you weren't good at this and and that is all on a sales assignment and so so in that play we say that okay Well, I was hired as an engineer, but he's giving me feedback on on sales and then so every time he comes he just gets bad and bad and bad and feedback. And then in the end, this boss says that, I have to promote someone like I don't have any good people, but that guy in that corner, he seems decent. Now, what happens is that a few years later, we showed the young person becoming a boss and he then starts practicing the same behavior. Right. And so I think leadership is what I call a learned behavior. If you see bad, then you start practicing bad. And if you are fortunate enough to have good and that's what you practice. And therefore I always say that surround yourself as much as you can to be in a culture which brings the good habits. Right. And I've seen companies where there's such a toxic culture, there are shouting matches, there's escalation culture where nothing happens unless you're ccing the boss's boss. The collaboration is not happening between the firms, I mean, between the departments. And it just brings that into your DNA. And it's very stressful, right? And so the whole saying that you join a company, but you leave your boss, right? It's so true. And therefore I say that. But I've also seen David in companies where there's such a top down culture. know, the culture isn't very good, but good leaders tend to create a subculture. So I have known where otherwise people are very unhappy, they're there just for the money. They're just there for the brand. And there are pockets of the companies where the team is very, very proud of having a good boss. And when the boss leaves, everybody else leaves with him. Right. So I think you can always create a subculture in your team. And what I always say is that, you don't have that control over a large organization's culture. But what you do have control over is the subculture of your own immediate team. And the more you can do that, the more it becomes easier. I give the example of Sundar Pichai, the Google CEO. When he was chosen as the CEO, what they wanted to find out is that, has he worked in the top 10 Google products? And then they took feedback like okay was he good technically? Yes he was, but how was he good with people, and everywhere he worked people gave very positive feedback. He was good with relationships, he was good with customers, he was good with his team, and so I think it goes a long way. Yeah, good. Thank you. Now we come the third question I ask everybody in the podcast and it's about purpose. What gives you purpose this work that you do, Nikhil? What's your personal 'why' behind helping people grow across generational lines? Yes, So lot of times we don't know what sort of our calling, right? We think that, I should be having a certain profession because it's going to give me more money, more prestige, and so on, right? And it's a process of self-discovery. And as I mentioned in my story, I was a fairly strong finance professional. I worked in Silicon Valley in the US and making good money. I probably would have made much more money on that track, but I think there is almost like for all of us who worked long. There's kind of an existential question that comes like probably for 30s or 40s or whenever they say that 'okay what what more do I do? I mean do I continue to do this will I continue to just you know get that next title that you know and some people are very driven by that and they're happy with it and quite frankly, when it did work in leadership, I wasn't doing it more to it wasn't kind of you know hitting me internally, but it did over a period of time. So when I saw more and more people getting changed in their careers, in their lives, I think there's a sense of satisfaction, there's a sense of joy, there's a sense of accomplishment. And I do believe that at some point in my career, don't know, maybe from now, I don't want to devote as much time as I can in the leadership space and maybe some in spirituality and not so much from a religious perspective, just from perspective to do good even more outside of the workplace, right? How do we help, you know, by doing volunteer work for NGOs and so on. And at the end of the day, it's not the size of the paycheck which always gives you happiness, right? It's the quality of the work. And it's to say that work which pays you is not required. But I see more and more people who are in the corporate world. They're running. They're on the treadmill. They at least show to the outside world that, wow, this is all glittery and glamorous and shining and it's all of that. But deep down, they have health issues. They have relationship issues. have so many other things which I'm not saying for everybody but it exists and so we have a finite time on planet Earth right so let's let's use it to to do something which we feel satisfied when we sleep tonight and you know just just make an impact. Yeah, good. Can you maybe share a story of transformation, Nikhil? An individual or organization that experienced breakthrough applying these ideas. Sure, think, I mean, a lot of the work that we did, David, in my last organization was very longitudinal. In other words, we never took, did a one-day workshop, two-day workshop. was... series of modules or a period of let's say six months nine months one year, and therefore we would actually bring them into the classroom and then they would go back and then they would most importantly do something in between because the fundamental rule of change or any transformation is not giving them more stories or more tools or more templates. It is about them going back and starting something new. And I think one of the things that we were always very, very happy about in large companies is to get them to say that, we're gonna start today in time one, which is the beginning of the year, and we will kind of come back in time two, which could be after 12 months. And there are ways in which you can measure some of that, right? Through instruments and so on. And a of the work that we did was very longitudinal. So I can think of clients where... many of the people who went through some of the programs that we put in. Over a period of time, there was a distinct... data point that said that they were better, well received as team leaders, they were promoted more, there was a higher NPS score for customers. And this is not all due to the program, but it's the combination of things. The program was one part of it. I think it was more about getting them to do things after they go back, right? And so trying something new, practicing it, getting feedback from the boss. So in many of the companies that we work for, especially a large manufacturing company, it's a global conglomerate, one of the things that they struggled with was just being able to engage talent. So if you think about having a large factory or a large plant, there's no way for me to know that, who are the 500 people in that setup, right? So how do I figure out a way to become more closely connected? And one of the things that we are designed to say that, okay, can they become more closely connected to the team that they're managing, right? And so a series of conversations, a series of events, a series in which... So they had a better perspective of the teams and the employees had a better perspective of the bosses. What would you say is one simple mindset or habit someone could start practicing today become a more generationally aware leader? Well, first I think... I say, be aware of who are the generations. So get to know, take the bit of time to read up. There's plenty available online, right? There are short videos, are so much material is out there online. As I say, the podcasts are there. I have one on Gen Z, but that's more on Gen Z. My book is on multi-gen. So first is just the awareness of your generation and the other generations. Two things. Number one, just to appreciate their context. What did they come back from? What in their time, know, fewer jobs meant more loyalty. In your time, more jobs means less loyalty. Right? So appreciate each generation's context in their time, less technology, in your time, more technology, right? In their time, more stability, in your time, you know, more sort of turbulence that's happening. I think the more we can appreciate each other's context, we can be... can then stop with the stereotypes. Number two, if you're leading a team, try and do your part before saying, OK, they need to change. They need to do that. What can you do to help them? What can you do to understand more? What can you do to bridge the gap as a team leader, as a manager and someone who is a Gen Z or a millennial working with a Gen X or a boomer appreciate their context. Right. And a lot of it is David, just effort that happens on a day-to-day basis. So if you have a routine and I talk about some of these methods in my book where you can do certain activities where you do what I call the 'Assumptions audit'. So can you do an audit of the assumptions that you made and then think about ways in which you can undo that, or you can think about one solution and think about an alternate solution, right, and so promote dialogue which can bring groups together, right, and the good news is I think once we get past some of that I think so much can be learned from each side. Yeah, good. Thank you. Now we come to the fourth question I ask everybody in the podcast. balance your leadership work with your own wellbeing and family life? And what help you stay healthy and grounded? That's a good question David and I hope our listeners can you know take a cue from my experience because there was a time as I'm sure you can relate to you know people that you may know as well that we all run into a patch of our career where we're busy we're ambitious we wanted to go for it and you know I was no different in my last four innings I was traveling more than 150- 180 days and was enjoying it. I was traveling so many countries, but all of that was coming at a cost, right, you know, cost health cost you know you know how much time are you spending with family and we can all kind of sustain we survive some of this at a younger age right, but the sooner we realize this and I think the younger generation is is a little more smarter about you know kind of appreciating this much before that maybe you know maybe we are generation or my generation, right? And so in 2018, I just said that, look, I think I need to do away with this routine. It wasn't like I was in a bad health or anything, but I think the more I started focused about discipline, about the health and the other things, I was enjoying more, I was doing more. So every day I start the day with 60 to 90 minutes of badminton. 60 minutes of yoga for five days and that just makes me... uh When my friends hear that they say, my gosh, how do do it? And I said, that's the choice I made, right? um Walking in the evening, meditation. So I do three things every day without fail. Badminton, yoga, meditation. And it just keeps you calm, keeps you healthy, eat right. And I think there's a correlation now, a very clear correlation of good health. also impacting mental well-being and good mental well-being has an impact on what you do at the workplace. So the advice post-COVID for all the people, and I think many people are realizing is that make that a priority, make relationships a priority. And there is much more to life than just kind of one element of it, which is the workspace. So it's not that it's not important. But we all need to give enough time to other aspects of our life. I think there's a lot of wisdom in this, that you do three things every day. do the same thing, because it's easy to fill your agenda, as you talked about. can have in doing all those things are less than you can have with three things that you do much much well better and as both you and me know that it's when you do something consistently. That's when your success comes. That's why I think is wisdom to on few things consistently what you said, would you agree on that? Such a good point. Absolutely David. I think it is all about consistency, right? You know, you don't want to go to the gym and workout for two hours and three hours because you felt like, my gosh, I missed out. But then never do it for two weeks or never do it for a month, right? Rather do it for 30 days. And I always give the example of, you know, Michael Phelps, the swimmer who won so many of the gold medals in Olympics for, I don't know, three or four Olympics, right? I think it was always about the routine he swam. for every single day for five straight years, and I think it was it was that which which gave him more swimming time, right, and he said it in multiple interviews that okay it's about setting small goals and just doing it every day right so it's easier said than done and I always say:"Motivation gets you going, but discipline gets you growing". It could be health, could be anything else, right? It's that consistency, like you say, David, which makes people from good to great. Yeah, good. Thank you. So is there anything that you think we have missed so far to talk about in the podcast and that you would also like to bring up, Nikhil? No, think we've covered it, David. Thank you for bringing out all the various dimensions on the multi-generational workforce. I do think that it's one of those future of work competencies, which means that it's a reality. If you're a young person, you will have to deal with a Gen Xer or a millennial or a boomer. If you are a more experienced person, you will have to deal with a millennial and a Gen Z. level is very simplistic but if you overlook and don't do the simple things you will lose good talent and it will cause more heartburn for you, more heartburn for the company, more heartburn for the customers. So I just say that take the time, make the life a little more balanced, enjoy the time as you say, do things consistently and give back, give back as much as you can. Yeah, good. Thank you. Where can people turn to if they want to contact you or learn more from you and get your books? Yes sure? So the best way to reach out is of course on LinkedIn. I am active on the LinkedIn platform so you can search for me, Nikhil Raval. And I have a website as well. It's called Learn. Wisely.in and you can see some of the work that I do. It has all the episodes of my podcast which is the Working with Gen Z. The Working with Gen Z podcast is available on all the platforms and the book is available. Both the books, the Target Gen Z and the Multi Gen book are available on Amazon and all the major platforms. So that's where I am. Reach out if there's any way I can help. It is not about doing something commercially but I'm just... to help solve a problem if I can. I wish all our listeners and viewers all the very best. Thank you. any last thoughts you want to give the audience some viewers? Maybe some quote or something that you think they could, you know, lift them up or so? Well, I only say that in a time where there's so much, how shall I say, turbulence and animosity and polarity in the world, right? I say that it's time to, in the world, to become a much more peaceful place. I always say that, you know, don't get so much influenced by what you see in the TV and what you read sometimes, right? At the end of the day, we're all humans, we're all people, and therefore learn to just let go, right? And I always say that, look, it is you should forgive someone not because they deserve the forgiveness, but because you deserve to be peaceful. So make sure you do what you can to make yourself peaceful, right? And that's the journey of life that you should keep in mind. Yes, thank you. I really am enjoying this conversation, Nikhil. It's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thank you David, I've really enjoyed it. Thank you and all the very best. Absolutely, thank you. So viewers and listeners, thank you for joining us today, in and watched us or listened to us. And this is the Life Leadership Connected podcast. And my name is David Dahlén D'Cruz. And welcome back when we release our next podcast. So until then, bye bye. Okay, bye.