Forged In Fire
Hosted by Nate Pharmer-Eden and Cole Farrell, Forged In Fire is where real entrepreneurship meets raw, unfiltered stories. This isn’t your typical business podcast—we skip the fluff and dive straight into the heat of what it really takes to build, run, and grow a business. From late-night doubts to game-changing wins, we explore the trials, setbacks, and breakthroughs that entrepreneurs experience at every stage of their journey.
Whether you’re a seasoned business owner navigating new challenges or someone with a burning desire to launch your first venture, this podcast offers powerful insights and practical lessons for everyone. No sugarcoating—just honest conversations about what it takes to forge success through the fire.
Get ready to be inspired, learn from real-world struggles, and gain the tools you need to make your entrepreneurial dreams a reality. This is your front-row seat to the highs, lows, and everything in between. Are you ready to step into the fire? 🔥
Forged In Fire
Episode 38: Dave Kohl proves that Tracking Everything Changes Everything
What happens when radio broadcasting skills meet real estate opportunity? Dave Cole's journey reveals how unexpected pivots can lead to entrepreneurial success when you're paying attention to the possibilities others miss.
Dave's story begins in Chicago's radio industry, where a station sale forced him to reevaluate his path. This unexpected development led him to telecommunications and eventually into real estate marketing, where he discovered his talent for finding unique angles to promote properties. When an expensive real estate kiosk technology was rejected by agencies for its high cost, Dave didn't see failure – he saw an opportunity to create something more affordable using phone technology. This pivot became the foundation for his success.
Throughout his career, Dave has maintained a competitive edge through meticulous tracking. Using nothing more sophisticated than an Excel spreadsheet as his CRM for 25 years, he records every contact, conversation, and follow-up. This discipline enables him to recall specific details from conversations years earlier, building credibility with clients and keeping perfect track of who delivers on promises. Dave's approach exemplifies how simple systems, consistently applied, often outperform complex technologies.
What truly sets Dave apart is his understanding of presentation strategy. He advises treating property marketing like a process: just as a cover letter gets someone to read your resume, which leads to interviews and eventually a job offer, property marketing should follow a purposeful sequence. His practical advice includes practicing 60-second property "commercials" without notes to develop your ability to highlight what makes each property unique. For formal presentations, he recommends preparing for five minutes, then condensing to three, and finally to two – ensuring you deliver your strongest material while having additional information ready for questions.
Ready to transform your real estate marketing approach? Subscribe to Forged in Fire for more insights from entrepreneurs who've navigated the challenges you're facing. Leave us a review to help others discover these valuable lessons from the trenches of real business building.
Forget what you've heard. Forged in Fire is where real entrepreneurs come to share the untold truths of success the late nights, the crushing setbacks, the moments that change everything. No fluff, just fire, ready to step into the heat and unlock what it really takes to build a business. This is where legends are made.
Speaker 2:Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another exciting episode of Forged in Fire. I am your co-host, Nate Farmer-Eden. Allow me to introduce my counterpart, Cole. What's going on, brother? Come on stage.
Speaker 3:Nate, how are we doing today?
Speaker 2:Let's be honest with everybody that's listening. Today has just been a day, brother. My laptop went down on me. I'm using a whole other setup. It's a struggle, but you know what? This is how legends are made right. We persevere, we push through, but enough. This is how legends are made right.
Speaker 3:We persevere, we push through. But enough about me how you doing. That's it. I love it. Now, same thing Another Tuesday trying to enjoy the journey. Today's one of those grueling days where it's just tons of attorneys, emails, lenders, refi. Just part of the process, though, so you know enjoying it though, trying to enjoy the journey, so I'm excited for this. So this is always a highlight of the day doing these episodes, doing these recordings, meeting our guests, and so you know, before we jump into that, a couple quick housekeeping items. As always, guys. First, please leave us a rating and review. We want to help other people grow and we want to keep educating others, so that will help us do that. Second, please subscribe so you don't miss another episode. And, of course, last but not least, sit back, relax, enjoy the ride.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be awesome here. So today we have the honor, pleasure and privilege to introduce a dear friend of mine, dave cole. Now, dave and I we met a few months back and it was actually a complete like fluke accident how it happened. I had a few spare moments and I was on alignable. For those that are out there who don't know about alignable, uh, it's a platform for entrepreneurs. There's a few people in the real estate industry that are out there as well, but you can utilize it if you are short for time or you want to just jump in and do quick meetings to get to know and network with folks. So five minutes before his meeting, I was just searching and this guy, dave Cole, was hosting a commercial real estate meetup online. So I was able to stay right where I'm at, jump online, jump in and get to network with a room full of other investors and folks within the industry. So, without further ado, dave, come on stage. Brother, how we doing man.
Speaker 4:I'm doing great. It's great to be with you on this Nate. This is going to be fun and hopefully we'll help some folks give some inspiration.
Speaker 2:Oh, a thousand percent man, this is going to be awesome. So please, without further ado, kind of tell us a little bit about yourself. What got you here? What brought you?
Speaker 4:here Originally and born and raised in Chicago, and that's all the way through college and the school that I went to, the college I went to in Chicago, had a training program for radio and TV broadcasting, which was my goal at that time. And I did wind up working for some radio stations and going about my goals. And then a couple things happened along the way, those, I guess, light bulb moments, you could say. So I wound up just to condense the story I was working part-time for a couple of radio stations in Chicago, had the opportunity to get out there and do my first full-time radio job in Lexington, kentucky. So I moved there and got to be friendly with you know, becoming friends with co-workers, and so one that I kept in touch with was more, he was the chief technician for the station and I eventually wound up back in Chicago and was working for a radio station there and also for a sports phone, and this was before the internet and back in the days when sports fans actually would have to, you know, had the phone number to call to get all the updated scores and all that to keep track of the games. And so one, and my friend the technician, actually got hired by a radio ownership group out in San Francisco and they were actually building a new. They got licensed for another station and were building the studio and literally building a radio station. And that was part of his role.
Speaker 4:Well, at radio stations you didn't have to worry about the phone bill, and so it so happened that I would be working on Sunday nights and actually running the board, so I didn't have much to do. He'd be in there working on the station on Sunday nights when other employees weren't around, and we'd just sit there and talk on the phone for an hour or so every week. And he mentioned that he had heard that then Pacific Bell was looking to create these recorded telephone announcement services for California. They were doing it in Chicago, new York, some other cities, but not there. So he was saying, oh yeah, how does it work? How do they get calls, how do they make money? And I'm just, you know, having a good time talking to him. And it turns out that he had some contacts through Pacific Bell, then the phone company out there, and was getting information about doing this. And we wind up in this whole conversation about, yeah, if we're going to do a sports phone and we can do all this stuff for other people, and I know how to do the announcements and get all this information into a one minute or a two minute script and how to update and do all this. And, him being the technician, he knew how all the equipment worked, which I didn't. And so we're talking and talking and eventually the opportunity was such that I well, meanwhile the radio station I was working for I had actually gotten more hours and was really liking it, and one of those I have no reason to leave. And it's getting to the point of this, opportunities coming up in Los Angeles that I'd really like to do, but I'm happy working at the radio station in Chicago.
Speaker 4:And just as it was getting near decision time, it's like the biggest decision in my life was made for me. I come into work one Saturday and there's a note for me in the box and it's like in red pen and I'm thinking, uh-oh, what did I do now? And I open it up and it was a confidential note that the radio station was being sold and they could not guarantee anybody any jobs past the first of the year. Well, that kind of made this decision easier. So it was a radio station sale that had nothing to do with me that made this decision to move out to LA and get involved with this. We're calling it a telecommunications service bureau, so it was doing that and it turned out that another company was able to get on sooner doing a sports phone thing and that kind of hurt our deal. But we were already talking with other companies about, you know, doing similar work for them. So there at least was work for me, although it took a little while. And in doing that, so after a few years and it, you know, picked up and I was enjoying it.
Speaker 4:And one day, well, a couple of things happened while I was out there in LA. One was that I was buddies with a couple of guys that worked with a small manufacturing firm and so just hanging out, and we're having dinner one night and they go, dave, we got invited to do a bid presentation for one of our products to a large manufacturer. If they were to buy this from us, this would be a really big deal. And I'm like, oh, that's great, you know anything I can do to help? And they're like, well, we're really poor about our presentation skills. Knowing that I had the broadcasting background and doing all this kind of stuff. You know that when a report's supposed to be 75 seconds and be on the air at 2.17 PM, I've got it ready and I can do it differently an hour later and talk about it and all these things. So they hired me to do their presentation. So it was like the next week we go to this big manufacturing plant. We get there and the people that had presented before were just packing up to leave and I see their presentation board and I'm like, well, this is kind of going to be a tough act to follow. So but I went in, did my job, did the presentation, thought I thought I at least did my best, answered the questions look like I knew about springs and parts and stuff that I had never heard of till a week earlier. And you know, off, we went and a couple, a couple days later, the one buddy calls Dave. We got the bid and I'm like, oh, congratulations, that's great, he goes Dave. So I asked the guy what made you choose us and the guy said it was your presentation. So the light bulb went on.
Speaker 4:A couple of months after that we get approached at this telecommunication service Bureau by a group that had technology. They actually had then the early version of a kiosk system. You touch the screen, you go through pictures, that type of thing, and their idea was to use this for real estate. Like you would put it in a you know shopping mall or office building where there's a lot of pedestrian traffic. You'd go up, touch the screen, see photos of different properties in the area and again, this is before the internet. So it was and if you're interested in one you'd press the button and out would come a little printout with the agent's name and more information about the property.
Speaker 4:So, and my involvement was going to be to kind of be updating and, you know, scripting the property information and coordinating all that. And then the other guys were more of the technical for running the equipment and installing the computers and doing this. So since I was going to be involved kind of in the marketing and the production, I went with on meetings to was like four or five pretty big real estate firms in Los Angeles when they were presenting this concept. Well, they all love the concept, but not the price. So we're, you know it's like, well, this isn't going to work. And back at the office and the next big moment was they're like yeah, that's really too bad. And I said wait a minute, moment was they're like, yeah, that's really too bad. And I said wait a minute. They didn't say you know, the problem was the price. They didn't say the problem was with utilizing technology to market properties. So we had all this phone equipment to do these recorded announcements.
Speaker 4:At that time, before the internet, if you wanted to go look at open houses in whatever city and you know you'd have to wait until the Saturday or Sunday newspaper came out to do it. We knew they had that information ahead of time. So we set up a phone number and I produced some recorded announcements. Example ones called a couple of the people we met with the real estate offices and said here's this phone number. We're going to do the open house hotline so that we can people can call this number, hear descriptions of houses and then get the open house schedule for the coming weekend. Send me your open house list, we'll do this at no cost. We think this could work and they did so. Then I had a couple of them on there. They said, yeah, this sounds good. So then I called back a couple of the other offices we had met with and said, hey, remember me. But now instead of thousands of dollars we're talking tens of dollars. So we charged them, I don't know, like 25 bucks a week or something to do this for their open house list to at least get a little bit of money in.
Speaker 4:And it kind of started taking off. In my going out to promote this to some meetings of real estate agents and opportunities I wound up getting acquainted with and was able to form a partnership with what was then an official publication of the Los Angeles Association of Realtors, which was once a week and out of the whole week it happened to come out on ding ding ding Fridays. So they started publishing the list to alert the realtors to these open houses and then I guess they sold you know advertising along the side. So that gave me the chance to now approach these other offices, say, hey, we've got these big companies on it where it's being published in this you know realtor. Hey, we've got these big companies on it where it's being published in this you know realtor newspaper and charging them for doing the properties. So of course I mean we got some to do it and wound up getting a lender to sponsor it and it just kind of went from there.
Speaker 4:Now, at that time, before the internet, the real estate agents and brokers. Their copy was for the MLS book flyers, newspaper ads, magazines they weren't writing for like broadcasting or other sources. So they started hiring me to help them write their announcements. And then a couple of years later, well, along came the internet, which kind of knocked off the phone service. But by then I'm getting hired because now it was the same thing. They weren't used to writing for the internets and using that in their marketing and learning email. So that's kind of how this started, by accident and from you know we're still producing the announcements and that and I was still.
Speaker 4:I did some part-time stuff for radio stations and then I moved back to Chicago in the early 90s and actually took that with me, because by that time we put the phone service was still going but it was on an 800 number so it could be from anywhere, was able to make deals, to add a couple of cities, and in fact a lender in Texas got me connected with at that time in the mid-90s or late 90s actually, remax of Texas was buying time on a Houston TV station to do a home showcase show. So they started putting the phone line number, the 800 number to call, press this Code for more information on the property and to be connected directly to the agent. And so now this was on TV. So they actually brought me down to Houston to present to other REMAX offices, to be able to use this phone service to promote properties that they couldn't afford. I mean that there was no time to put on TV, so we had this going in Houston. We had some other things going.
Speaker 4:So that's kind of you know where all this started and it was just, you know, either taking advantage of or seeing the opportunities or basically, in my case, using both those stories, my friends with the manufacturing group and the people bringing the technology. It's what happened after and making the difference. So that's my lesson that I learned and benefited from. And I guess if there's one thing and hopefully there's more than one thing to get out of talking with you both today, it's that it's. You know, a no or a situation doesn't have to end because that's what you were expected to do.
Speaker 4:How can you keep that going? And that's the one I love, sharing that story and that lesson. And then we fast forward, you know, 30 years later. So I'm involved with technology, such as virtual reality tours for proposed properties, taking them from floor plans and architectural drawings and doing that, and you know a couple of other things, some geo-fencing or geo-targeting, as far as you know, retargeting people, advertising based on their online preferences. But 30 years later, I'm using technology, but I'm also helping real estate professionals, both commercial and residential, to do what they do. So to me it's kind of doing the same thing what they do, so to me it's kind of doing the same thing.
Speaker 3:It just keeps getting updated. So interesting and it's very cool to hear that story and kind of where you came from, how it progressed and how you ended up where you are now. So tell me a little more in terms of after all that, after that whole journey you mentioned, you're doing a couple different pieces now. So what is like the bread and butter that you're working on? What is your favorite thing to do and why? So, out of that, what's your favorite? Why?
Speaker 4:I think my favorite thing to do is to create real estate deals. I found up I do some coaching and consulting with investors a lot more than brokers these days and investor groups, and it's being able to combine the original broadcasting skills and knowing how to put a presentation together and how to do the research and how to make it your own and not be reading the same copy that everybody else is Combined with being involved in all different phases of a deal. I also do some little bit of investing myself in single family properties, so I've kind of been either involved with or in some fashion at like, almost every end of a deal. So what I like is the putting a deal together where I'm bringing components to the table. And it was a proposal. It was in place for a mixed-use commercial development where it was going to have the retail and restaurants and parking and then one tower was going to be the hotel and the other tower condos, like all is kind of a you know city within a block or within the same structure kind of thing. And so the guy that I well, actually I didn't know yet, but it turns out that there were supposed to be two partner, two different groups, partnering in this. The one group had something happen aside from the project and had to pull out. So here's this guy that had put in all this time and effort and had the plans and the approval and everything all ready to go and needed either the financing or an investment partner to get the project done. So I was brought in to.
Speaker 4:I do know some lending sources and also I've got some sources that will look at joint venture opportunities into some private money and private investors. So I was brought in to see what I could do to help get either a partner or investor, whatever the case might be. In doing that I was able to present the technology that we could use the virtual reality technology and some of the other things to help attract buyers, tenants, whatever the, you know guests, whatever the case might be. So I was going to get that work, you know, if I could put the deal together. Now, how I got put in this situation was I knew the architect on that deal. So they lost out on work because the deal wasn't ready to go through. So the architect put me in touch because by doing that then both myself and them would get the work, plus I'd be involved in some way with this development and that would obviously be a nice springboard. So that's the kind of thing I mean, that's kind of extreme, but that's the kind of thing that I enjoy doing the most is putting things together.
Speaker 4:And I still do have, you know, access to private money and non-traditional lending and to the technology that help promotes, and I've worked on feasibility studies, done market research, so I've had some really interesting projects of you know.
Speaker 4:It's things like and this is what I enjoy I actually had the owner of some laundromats hired me to research another city, to go in and do things like the traffic counts, the demographics of the neighborhood apartment buildings where there were no in-house laundry facilities, or in other words, find some areas that might be ripe for planning a new laundromat, to then explore how much or how little competition there was and the location, to then look at what type of storefront space is available for lease in those areas front space is available for lease in those areas, and so my role there was to come up with the research, not to give an opinion and not to say, oh, I found a spot, here you go.
Speaker 4:It was just to provide the information so that they could make the necessary decision. So I like that and being able to, you know, help in the decision process come up with this information. But there have been times when I've been asked to make a recommendation. There's times, like this, where I'm asked not to, to help them make the decision. So I think that's the kind of thing that I enjoy is kind of putting things together, being a part of bigger deals than you know.
Speaker 2:My own situation would normally allow me to be in than you know, my own situation would normally allow me to be in.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I love that a thousand percent, dude, and it's so amazing to be able to hear your journey from the very beginning.
Speaker 2:I'm echoing exactly what Cole was saying, and the word that just keeps coming to mind here in your story is just being able to adapt and to be able to pivot. As technology started to spin, you were just like okay, I can figure out where there might be a pain point of issue and I can go ahead and try to figure out a solution, and then I'm going to present that solution and then we're just going to adapt and overcome whatever the challenge is. I think that is awesome, so hats off to you. So I'm at the same wavelength now, especially with access to MLS and we were talking years before the internet. Then we were talking kiosk and now, with all these new pieces of technology and of course some of it would be you being able to do virtual tours and walkthroughs and all that. But what are some of the struggles that you're seeing on a day-to-day from other operators that you talk to and with your personal brand and your personal business?
Speaker 4:what are some of the other struggles that you're running into with investors as well, that you've been able to sort of tackle and overcome for them okay, I think that, uh, some of the struggles are that in a way, uh, with real estate that it's almost become too specialized now and, granted, there are times you need a specialist and special skills, and granted, there are times you need a specialist and special skills, but it's like you can't just say, hey, I'm a multifamily investor, because multifamily investor could be a six-unit apartment building in the middle of Montana or it could be a you know 300 unit building in Manhattan. Those are still multifamily. And so it's like you know, you have to almost like, pin that down I do single family. Or even the different types of investments out there. Yeah, fix and flips have been around for a while, even though they've increased in the past few years, but now you have just these different versions where it's like, okay, I do minor rehab, fix and flips, or I'm looking for teardowns. Now there's build to rent and that's really hit within the past two or three years where there are entire investor groups that focus on build to rent. In some cases it's buying and converting. In more cases I'm seeing it's building from the ground up, where they're actually building, in some cases a development of single family homes. In other cases it may be like for condo units, but instead of selling them they're doing them as rental. So that's becoming. That's what I mean. That's probably the best example of how specialized it's becoming. And so I've well, I was going to say I've had to, I haven't had to, but I've made it a point to learn and understand those differences so that I can explain that. And another thing too is that and it kind of fits in with the combining the last two questions of what I like to do and you know what are the trends going on with being specialized is that, from coaching and teaching and working with especially newer investors, is explaining, to find the property and then run different scenarios. So there are properties out there where it may be more financially feasible in the long run to build it, to rent or make it a rental as opposed to flipping, so things like that. So I think that's kind of what's going on and kind of be the interpreter I use the expression just on that line with the virtual reality that before the pandemic we would actually go out and present the due demonstrations of the virtual reality and present the due demonstrations of the virtual reality and we were in, like some large retail stores, some real estate offices and some conferences.
Speaker 4:We'd kind of rope off an area, put the virtual reality headset on people and we'd had a monitor so we could see what they're looking at. And they could walk around like they're walking around inside a property and we'd go turn to your right or take two steps forward and they'd be in the kitchen and look under tables and bring up a selection panel and change the colors of the walls and the type of flooring and all these things that we could do. And so it was that you know I did, I was doing you know the marketing and the real estate part of it and we had a technician that would go and do all the setup and plug this into that. And I still don't know how all that worked. I tried to set it up myself once. It took like an hour and he would do it, you know, in 10 minutes.
Speaker 4:But you know people would go up to him and go, well, hey, I've got this three-bedroom, you know development, and they'd talk to Dave. And people would go to me oh, is that the XYZ software? And I'd have to be talked to him. And so I joke that with the technology that I'm the interpreter, I speak real estate. I translate it that way Because agents didn't call and say, dave, get me some virtual reality by 6 o'clock tomorrow. They'd go Dave, hey, how can I use this to promote my whatever it might be property? So it's kind of knowing the different, you know the different opportunities that are out there. So if you're looking to invest or you're looking to do something, look at it from from all points of view.
Speaker 3:That's awesome and I love that. And one of the things I really want to dive into because I keep hearing you reference it, it sounds like it's one of your specialties is kind of not just the presentation but how you go about it, um how you finding the right people to present to, and whether it's like real estate specifically, um, whether it's for raising capital, maybe it's for a sale or something similar, or maybe it's for an agent, whatever it is, um, you seem like you're very dialed in on finding these people and presenting in a certain way. So can you elaborate on kind of how that looks and kind of how you frame it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think you need to do that because, part of it because there's so many specialties and, you know, having the social media and all these newer forms of marketing, it's past the days when a residential agent gets a listing and they call up the newspaper and run an ad every Sunday. You know we're past that point where now it's kind of niche and so it's getting people to think, okay, who's my candidate, who would buy this? And I get into this discussion a lot of times, even with some longtime agents that because of you know equal opportunity and just the way things are. It's not like you could say, hey, this property is perfect because it's in an Asian neighborhood, no, or whatever it might happen to be. No, you can't do that. But the formula there is okay. Let's just say I have a property that you know it could be commercial, residential. It's in an area that's primarily Asian and so you can't directly market that way. But you know what? There's publications around there, there's websites that serve that area that maybe are in one of those languages, so that's where you promote the property. So you're not saying it, but you're looking for those ways to do it and that's why I'm always asking the agents and brokers, and it's residential, it's commercial.
Speaker 4:Who would buy this? Who are you talking to? It's not anywhere, anybody, anything anymore. I mean it could be, but you're reaching you're paying to reach too many people that are not likely candidates. Yes, somebody may hear something and know somebody that are not likely candidates. Yes, somebody may hear something and know somebody. A non-Asian could still want the property or know somebody that is, but you still want to have your focus toward who would buy or who would invest. And so that's kind of the basic part of the theory of just really, you know, thinking that through and have it be the. You know, if you're looking to reach teachers, okay, a kindergarten teacher is going to have different needs than a high school teacher that does high school juniors and seniors, yet they're both teachers and they could be in the same area, but you would have some different products to market to each of them. And these are things that a lot of people don't look at. Because, you know, I know, in presenting to an investor, if I present a property to Nate, for all I know Nate's looked at 10 other properties that day. He's not looking at my property on its merit. He may be looking at mine property on its merit. He may be looking at mine compared to nine other properties, so mine has to hit those buttons that he's not seeing in those other nine. I mean, yeah, the numbers have to work, but we're talking the initial part of the process.
Speaker 4:Another thing that I preach to my clients and to investors is to look at it as the process, and I use the getting a job, even though that's not something I'm having to do, but I use that as my example. So it's the purpose of the cover letter is to get them to read the resume. Purpose of the resume is to get the first interview. Purpose of the first interview is really to get the second interview. Purpose of the second interview now it's to get the job. So, ultimately, you want the job, but you have to respect the process and do it that way, and that's the example that I use with a property, Okay, what are its best features?
Speaker 4:What distinguishes this? You know who would buy it, and it's even things like using a residential development as an example. Your house that you're looking to sell. It's a you know, two bedroom and it's in one of those you know, oak Hills Estates communities and it's one of 48 houses that all look the same, but there's going to be something about your unit. Maybe it's closer to the front entrance so it saves you the few minutes of having to drive through the complex. Maybe it's in the back so you don't have traffic going by, or it's further away from the railroad tracks at the other end, or it's, you know, near the access road, or it's near the swimming pool, or it's near where the school bus stops. It's finding that one thing that makes your house different, even if the ones down the street look the same, and these are the things that I preach make it unique, make it, you know, distinctive.
Speaker 4:And it's the kind of thing where and I talk about this in working with residential agents doing listing presentations but this is probably an even better answer to your question, cole is that you want to have information that's not commonly out there. You're interested in a house. You could ask five different real estate agents about that house and chances are at least four of those five is going to give you the same information that you just heard from the previous agent. So I want my client, or I want to be that agent that says oh, you know what the house next door has this. You know their basement's not finished, this house is, or just the little things. That says, hey, I've been in that property, I'm much more familiar with that area. Here's what's going on. Here's some little nugget that nobody else is going to give you, and that's what I like to work with with my clients. That's the way to. I think that's what makes the difference. That makes you kind of stand out that you're hitting that. You know hitting that target.
Speaker 2:This is so good. Everybody that's listening, pause it, rewind, play it back because it's so property specific and then being able to do your due diligence properly, to be able to market and then catch that target audience. And I think that is awesome. You hit the nail right on the head. So, just as completely no script, just follow up. Question that in today's economy, what are you finding to be the best method to be able to get that traffic in? So you talked a little bit about going from thinking about getting a job. So let's go from cover letter to resume, first interview to second interview. But how are you bringing folks together to be able to have that target audience? Are you thinking webinars or investor dinners, or how is that looking? What are you finding the most success in?
Speaker 4:You know, I think, nate, great question, I think it depends an unscripted answer, by the way, just to add to that. You know, I think my answer is going to be and it is to a lot of questions it depends, because it depends on the type of property or opportunity that you are looking to have. So if it's for using the job interview or getting the job analogy, if it's for an executive position, it might be something where you, you know, have somebody to your private box at a football game or, you know, put the in a situation where you can talk at a higher level. If it's for a maintenance job, it may be, you know, meeting by a job site. Or you know, hey, come meet me, I'm working on the. You know the rust building over at the corner of third and elm. Come meet me there and then you're on the site and you can see, hey, this is what see the guy doing, the you know painting the ceiling over there. That's the type of thing where we need somebody to support that, where maybe it's more of a showing or that type of thing. So I just think it depends, but again, it's the you know making it very. I guess I'll say, you know like, try to customize it, make it unique. So maybe it's not just another job interview to show. This is why I'd like to, you know, work here. Now you have, you know, some offices that have a ping pong table in the lobby or in the you know their conference room or something, just to have things for employees, and that's things that, hey, that'd be neat, I could go play ping pong during work days. Companies are doing things like that. So I think it's kind of the, you know, not making it the typical. You know, don't be the okay, here's what I'm supposed to do. This company did this, this company asked this question and just kind of make it to where they're going. To remember your opportunity Because I talk about this too when some of these you know real estate agents or people on their own, they'll go look at three, four open houses or three, four properties in a day.
Speaker 4:Well, it starts to run together, and so I've even suggested to agents and to me not enough of them do this is to why not have an open? Well, I got one to do this, so, just for the quick story, but this is kind of to your point, to making it unique where I got them to hold an open house for a single family home on a Tuesday from 4 o'clock until 6.20. Four o'clock until 620. Now of course people are going to go. You know, okay having it on a Tuesday, but why until 620? That would be the first question everybody would ask. The answer was because everybody could be on the 630 train back to downtown. Now, right there, you know nothing about the house, but you're already getting an amenity that you're right by the train station. You can get to and from work without having to go park and do all this stuff.
Speaker 4:The other part to it is okay, you know, and that's why a lot of agents don't do this, because they figure the seller is going to be disappointed if maybe one or two people or nobody shows up. But whoever does show up, they're interested in the property, they're coming at that time and so by doing it on a Tuesday or a Wednesday now hey, this is a really neat property Well, if they want to go see other properties, they're not going to be open house until Saturday or Sunday. So this house gets the advantage and even if they schedule a showing, that might not be until Thursday or Friday. So you're getting at least a two-day advantage for that potential buyer to think about this property, plus seeing it under those circumstances, if this house was open between noon and four on Sunday, yeah, they'd have had more people, but those people might be looking at two other properties that day and then they're comparing. So I guess that's. You know, that's a better example and I kind of wish more. You know more people would do that, but can't win them all.
Speaker 3:I love that, but one of the things I want to highlight that you were just talking about is, like true strategy. It's doing things differently, like you said, and it's not just strategy but it's also, I would say, then, being an expert kind of like you mentioned earlier. You're doing something differently with intention, but you also know your product, or know what you're doing, better than everybody else. So not only do you have a competitive advantage because you're just being better, but you're also strategizing to get another step up. So I just think you're compounding those things together. With that being said, nate, do you think it's time to jump in?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think Dave is ready, I think so. I think it's time for the surprise.
Speaker 3:All right, dave, here's what we're going to do. All right, we call this the fire round and we're going to ask you a couple questions that we ask every guest. You can answer shortly. You can answer at length. Whatever you want to do, we're going to try not to interrupt you and or to give our own anecdote to it. We're going to fail. We do every single time, but we'll see what we can do. So kick us off, nate. Let us know when we're ready.
Speaker 4:Performing entrepreneurs from the rest of the crowd you know I missed the beginning of the question. It kind of muffled.
Speaker 3:Sorry Again. What separates top performing investors or entrepreneurs from the rest of the crowd?
Speaker 4:Okay, I think it's the amount of attention and research and knowledge. Attention and research and knowledge, it's the approach. Maybe it's confidence too, that you know what I'm looking for A, b and C as opposed to I'm looking for hey, do you have any apartment buildings or do you have any multifamily in the city of whatever?
Speaker 2:that have this many units and were built after 2010? And I think that's the difference. Love it, what is?
Speaker 4:a daily habit that's contributed to your success Tracking everything. So I use and the people that you know are selling CRMs are going to, like you know, go through the ceiling at this but I've used an Excel spreadsheet as my CRM for close to 25 years. Before that, I used to have a spiral notebook by my side and keep track of everything during the day. So the Excel spreadsheet, I do not use it for formulas, I use it for tracking. I've got, you know, the name, the company, the phone number, the email and a contact history. So and I've done this with people, I've gone, you know, been on the phone with them and had their thing up and I'll say you know, I think we did some project together. I'll go, yeah, in 2018, we did the project over on Taylor Street and I mean I will just have this information there and for each person in my database, I will have a next contact time in there. It may be six months from now, it may be next year, it may be tomorrow at 3.30, but it's keeping track of my resources. Who told me what? So I would know when I met them, where I met them, and it's good for a number of things, for knowing resources and finding things. But I use it as a credibility check at times, too, because you'll find somebody tells you something and then, oh, call me back in three months and you call them back in three months. And it as a credibility check at times, too, because you'll find somebody tells you something and then, oh, call me back in three months and you call them back in three months and it's a whole different story. So I'll make a note of that and if they go call me back in three months, I may call them back in one month, acting like that's when I was supposed to call them back, and oftentimes they don't know the difference. But now I know that and they don't know that I know that. So that's my one thing is just keep track of, like you know everything, who you talk to, and then I also.
Speaker 4:With Excel, you can do color coding where it could be the background or the text. So I've got that where I can go. Okay, I've got to call my blues today or the reds or whatever color it may happen to be, and only I know that color code. So if I get hacked or something like that, then there's things that only I would know. So that's my uh, that's my secret is just keep track of a lot of stuff and contact information and who told you what and who didn't follow up, and but of there's the who did and who you know you can rely on and, if you need, you know an investor that does this you kind of. You know.
Speaker 4:The idea is to know who to go to and not do things like I've told the story quite often that just personally in and this was back in 06, actually a long time ago but my wife and I bought a townhouse and we were buying it from one of the big builders where you didn't really need a realtor, but they were realtor-friendly. So I had actually my best friend's sister that had been doing real estate for years. I was like, hey, you know we're going to get this house here, go ahead. You know, represent us. You know you get the commission and you know all that. And that was fine and she did a good job. We're in the townhouse and it was somewhere between four and six weeks after we moved in.
Speaker 4:I get a postcard from her. Now is the time to sell, and so it's like what a nice reminder that I'm just another number in her database. It's like what a nice reminder that I'm just another number in her database. But this is something that I preach to agents and even investors that I coach is it's not just your list, it's who you're sending to for what purpose. And that's part of what I get out of the Excel spreadsheet. I'm not just going to send to everybody I know. If it's something that needs a buy, I'm going to send it to people that could legitimately that. I've kind of vetted in my own way that could be potential buyers at least first and not make that mistake of saying, hey, you're just somebody in my database.
Speaker 3:So good. I love the tracking. We live and breathe by the tracking. So good, good. What is a piece of advice that you'd give to yourself if you're starting again?
Speaker 4:um, yeah, well, uh, I guess I'd say spend my money differently. So I wish that I had uh more money, or had either more it would have led to more money to be investing later on or just make better investments from the start and to think long-term rather than short-term at an earlier age.
Speaker 2:Love it. What is your favorite business book?
Speaker 4:Love it. What is your favorite business book? It's actually, I would go with I don't remember the name of the book actually from years ago this was probably like at least 20 years ago Mark McCormick, who was with what is it like? Igs or it was an agency that became sports agents and all that, and he did a book about. It was something like the Power or the Art of Negotiation I don't remember the exact title. It was by Mark McCormick, but he went into about the with negotiation and just strategies that I still use and it says, if it's a really big deal, you know, ask for 24 hours or to sleep on something you know overnight and not rush into a big decision, that you want to look into things and then do some research, make some calls, look at it from all points of view, because I will, you know, I will try to do that.
Speaker 4:So that would be and it also from my background that while growing up and through grammar school and high school we kind of had our core four where there were four of us that were all really close. Well, two of the other three guys went on to be lawyers and so I kind of grew up where we would kind of challenge each other, and it's almost like we were playing lawyer in school of make our case where we would just come up with I mean, we would do, you know, like mock drafts who would we draft for our favorite football team? But we had to make our case. It wasn't. Oh, they need a defensive end. We would like come up with names of people. And this was before you had all this information available. You know, we would like research guys and it was like we wanted to win. You know our argument and this is what happened.
Speaker 4:And as we went on in our professional life, the level of trust was such that we would run like super top secret business things by each other and my one friend in particular he actually we would get together and he would do business presentations. He'd say, hey, he was presenting this like tax accounting software to groups and he would do the presentation for me because I didn't know software, to see what questions I would ask. And then I would point things out that, hey, you should mention this, oh, great idea. Or I knew you would say that, and so we did these types of things.
Speaker 4:So I think that to me was as big of a help as the, the book by Mark McCormick, but that's one as far as the looking at the negotiation. So to me it was not the subject, it was the skill, because so much of what I'm doing for real estate could be done in any industry and I keep you know side of that. There have been times when I've done projects that have nothing to do with real estate, but it's because of it calls upon skills that I already have. So I'm reasonably able to do it. That is awesome.
Speaker 3:What is your favorite part of running, operating, owning however you want to take it, your business? Favorite part?
Speaker 4:it's just. It's the satisfaction of either completing the next step or completing a major project, seeing that deal come together, having somebody that I've trained or redone their database for or done something for, and it works what is something new that you've implemented into your business that's helped drive your success.
Speaker 4:What is something new that you've implemented into your business that's helped drive your success? I would say the, actually, and this will fit right in Nate, but I would say that the being more aggressive on social media in the last couple of years has made a big difference. And so, with the you mentioned Alignable, which is how we came to know each other. But there's LinkedIn and there's some other platforms and it's really you. To me it's you get out of it what you put into it. And, yeah, the majority of the people just scroll through. Maybe they like something, maybe they do this, they do that, but to really get into it and comment on posts and that's something that's led me to connections is following or looking at posts from influential people, very successful people, and instead of just liking something, come up with a comment, with something to say. That's got some meat on the bones. So it's not like you have to disagree with them, but talk about a situation so they may post about. You know some big. You know housing development, that's closing and it's, you know, 80% sold or whatever it may be, and it's like a big deal so to be able to comment that. You know, typically the last 20% doesn't sell until three months after the project is open, because people want to make sure that something you know or that type of thing, and I'm just, you know, kind of making that up. But it's the idea of having a quality response, because I've gotten like very important people to engage with me because of comments or strategies or shared things.
Speaker 4:There was a time and sometimes you've got to give away a good. You don't have to, but you could give away like a really good chunk of the pie. So there was a time a couple of years back, I was at a, I guess I'll say like a marketing luncheon and it so happens that I was one of. It was something like 18 people and it was the luncheon. But you know, you'd go around the room, introduce yourself and, for whatever reason that day it was like 12 of the people were lawyers and it just wasn't. There was like I don't know if there was anybody else there that had much to do with real estate. So I did my thing.
Speaker 4:When we're introducing, it's like it wasn't like a you know, major, oh, dave, hey, questions, because it wasn't, you know, turned out to kind of not be my target audience. But then something came up in the discussion about. They were talking about with you know methods of generating leads. Talking about with you know methods of generating leads. And so I jumped in with telling a story about how, yeah, this was a mortgage broker that I work with who was doing VA, veterans Administration loans and working with military and so the campaign that he came up with and I helped with I was actually trying to sell him on another campaign and he was explaining why he didn't need it and then I wound up working with him on this. So, because he was doing VA loans, he was looking up when there'd be like military battles. So just to use, well, I mean, unfortunately we've got things going on now, but when you hear of like these cities in Ukraine, just as an example this was before that, but like cities in Ukraine so he would buy those places as keywords or military actions or things that relate to the military, figuring that whoever is searching them probably has some involvement with they're either active, they could be deployed it's a family member, somebody with some involvement. That's what he did. He stopped buying mortgage-related keywords and went to this campaign so I was able to suggest some places to do that and increase it. Doing that doubled his leads in less than three months with the same spend.
Speaker 4:So I shared that story at this thing, where it was mostly attorneys that you know, that's the type of thing for lead generation. Hey, you know what, sometimes it's finding the right keyword. And before I left that luncheon I had business cards from two attorneys, one of whom I wound up meeting with and actually did do some things to help him out. So that is part of the, you know, making it with the situation and thinking. But that's from the natural. Okay, how can I make this unique? You know, recalling an experience. Usually that's something I won't share until or unless somebody's hired me or about to hire me or I really need it. But I put it out there that one time, more than I usually do, but it led to business. So that's, you know, that's how I would answer that question.
Speaker 3:I love it. It's so interesting to hear your journey. I love how you incorporate the stories in here and kind of like really paint the picture and I hope somebody listening can kind of see the value that he's bringing just from the stories and how it's implemented and how a lot of it's so tried and true. I'm just thinking back to when we started this, right on doing your first presentation, realizing the power of that and then growing slowly and ending up where you are now doing a lot of the virtual stuff, doing ads, doing all these cool things and just kind of having this expertise in what you're working on, little pieces that I want to keep bringing up, like the no doesn't mean no in a way, being an expert, trust the process and know that the process has a purpose. So many good things that you mentioned. So I have two final questions for you One, where can people find more info on you or contact you? And two, do you have any final advice?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I guess, as far as the contact, probably the best way because I do, I often start with people, even by kind of coaching and consulting. So there is realestatemediacoachcom is probably the best for contacting me. I don't know if we should put the email out or how you want to do that, but that's up to's up to you.
Speaker 3:We can put it below, everything below, but if you want to share it absolutely.
Speaker 4:Okay, we can do that. That's, dave, at first incom and then, as far as the uh, the final piece of advice, that it is to um, you know what? Well, yeah, I will, now that I think about it. It's kind of the keep track of everything, even minor details, but it's also, whatever it is you're doing, whether it's real estate or not, and if it's real estate, to make it specialized is and this comes from my doing the presentation and public speaking coaching, and that is, let's just say, you've just looked at a property it's to buy, to rent, whatever the case might be, for whatever reason and you get back in the car and you're heading back to the office or you're sitting around later that day with no notes, with nothing in front of you, but maybe a stopwatch or a clock, do a 60 second commercial for that property. So that's the advice because, yeah, you may fumble and stumble, but that's the point. You want to keep doing it. Maybe you do it every day for a week or three hours later to learn how to do that, because that's the skill. So you just saw a property. Maybe you've got a partner or maybe it's your spouse or significant other that you've got to talk about that property to. Maybe it's a potential buyer. You want to be able to develop that gift of gab, that ability to talk about it, and so the first time well, let's see, it had a bedroom upstairs, but by the third or fourth time you're doing it, it's a three bedroom home.
Speaker 4:It's this, it's that you don't have to do it in a professional broadcast place but be able to talk about it for 60 seconds. So that's my advice. And the rest of that is when you have a presentation to do and that could be a listing presentation you're presenting to a potential investor. It's you're talking, you know, to two people about a job, whatever it might be is to if you know you've got two minutes to do your presentation, prepare like it's a five-minute presentation and practice it and practice it and practice it. Then knock it down to three minutes and practice it, then knock it down to two minutes, because by that time you've got the best half of what you want to talk about. You're well rehearsed and if somebody asks you a question, you know you can talk about it for three more minutes easily and that could give you the confidence. That's what makes the difference, so you're not fumbling and stumbling around fumbling and stumbling around.
Speaker 2:Holy sheesh, my gosh Mic drop. This has been amazing. I appreciate you so much. I think this is the first time we've ever done a show where, on the very last question, somebody gave out two pieces of homework and I think it's amazing. 60-second commercial and then practice, if you're doing a two-minute presentation, as if you're doing it at five, and then count it down and for everybody that's listening, of course, get home safe but, more importantly, also reach back out to Dave. Let him know how it went after you did those two homework assignments and how it was able to affect or impact any of the changes that you had coming. Rather be getting on new clients or bringing a new business, or maybe just practicing and pitching it to a spouse or a loved one. We definitely want that. Let us know. I want that feedback Again.
Speaker 2:Thank you all so much for tuning in to Forged in Fire. This has been an amazing episode. Dave, I don't even know if we talked about this earlier, but, cole, actually we connected Dave with Eddie, who was another one of our partners on the 54 unit. Both of them are in Chicago I'm only a couple hours away, so I'm looking forward to as soon as the weather gets a little warmer and it's not negative 10 degrees outside getting together with the two of you I know both of you are hosting meetups, so this is going to be an exciting 2025. So, with that being said, in 2025, we thrive. Everybody, get home safe, take care. We'll see you all on the next episode of Forged in Fire. Thank y'all so much. Take care.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Forged in Fire. If you enjoyed today's raw, unfiltered stories, don't forget to like, subscribe and leave us a review. Your feedback helps us bring more real world insights to entrepreneurs like you. Be sure to join us next time for even more lessons, struggles and breakthroughs on the road to success. Keep forging ahead.